Parrot 2.9.1 Released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Nopaste: nopaste.snit.ch:8001 | merge gsoc_nci |
Set by moderator on 2 November 2010.
cotto It's part of the parrot org on github now 00:01
parrot/pir
I'll fix that.
fixed 00:02
kid51++
00:14 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
dukeleto Code Review Needed: gist.github.com/663444 00:15
that is the git filter-branch command that i am going to run
if you have a problem with one of the name transformation rules, speak now, or forever deal with it. 00:16
Tene reads.
dukeleto this was autogenerated from the CREDITS file
Tene Uh.... bad. 00:17
Quoting fail.
dukeleto Tene: are you talking about githubs color rendering?
Tene You're trying to contain it in '', but you have: Curtis 'Ovid' Poe, Nuno 'smash' Carvalho, and Sean O'Rourke
dukeleto Tene: ah. I had fixed some quoting errors, but not all. I only took into account double quotes 00:18
Tene dukeleto: no, I'm talking about how you have: --env-filter '...''...''...'...'
dukeleto Tene: yes, i see now
Tene: good thing I wrote a program to generate that :)
whiteknight I think my username should not be capitalized
Tene Also it's not sorted! :P
dukeleto whiteknight: that is a bug in the CREDITS file, but that is good to know. if your svn username is lowercased, it won't work 00:19
Tene dukeleto: can we have: "dukeleto") n="Stephen Weeks" ; m="tene@allalone.org" ;; ? 00:20
;)
whiteknight at least, my trac login is lowercased
dukeleto whiteknight: is your svn username all lowercase?
whiteknight I dont remember, i always use cached credentials 00:21
dukeleto whiteknight: it is lowercase 00:22
Tene looks to be all lowercase in 'svn log'
whiteknight yay! I'm not terribly mis-remembering things
cotto dukeleto, you can take the a.k.a. off my name 00:23
probably the same for kid51
dukeleto this is no fun.
the CREDITS file should be correct. 00:24
there are a whole bunch of other a.k.a stuff
cotto give me a second then
dukeleto all these issues will be present in the current git svn clone i am making 00:25
cotto: i can just remove some of them
cotto: but i am sure somebody will complain
cotto I can commit the changes now if you like 00:26
dukeleto and I don't care. I want this repo converted.
cotto: yes, please do that. But i will just modify my input file
cotto done
cotto hopes we don't have a r49800 00:27
dukeleto gist.github.com/663458 00:31
please look at that now. it is sorted, and has cotto's name fixed 00:32
cotto will be able to show his gsoc pride tomorrow at $dayjob->new()
dukeleto Tene: ^^^
cotto: nice :)
is ash_ really a valid svn username?
cotto dukeleto, do you want to do the same for particle and infinoid? 00:33
dukeleto, trac seems to like "ash" better: trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49465 00:34
Tene dukeleto: single quotes don't work like that in sh. Inside of sh single quotes, no escaping is handled at all, whatsoever. the \\ character is not treated specially. 00:35
try for yourself: echo 'foo\\'bar' 00:36
dukeleto ok, i fixed particle, jkeenan and infinoid's "a.k.a" business
Tene: joy to the world
Tene: i will just run a .sh from that command 00:37
Tene dukeleto: I'm sorry, I don't understand.
dukeleto Tene: but i may still run into the escaping problem
Tene: i will run './some_junk.sh' for the --env-filter 00:38
Tene: hopefully that will work?
Tene dukeleto: if you run it like that, your environment variable modifications will not be handled right. You could instead do: source some_junk.sh 00:39
dukeleto Tene: thanks!
Tene: but i can just put those env vars in the some_junk.sh 00:40
there are still some other things to work on for the git migration, that can be done in parrallel 00:41
whiteknight: you said you wanted to help?
Tene Hmm. It's not clear to me at all how env-filter works. Normally, any environment modifications only affect the environment of any process created by that process, never the parent process.
dukeleto Tene: it sources what is inside --env-filter for every git commit, and those magic variables change who the author name/email info 00:42
Tene Yeah, I thought so.
In that case, invoking a new program will not work at all. You need to source it.
dukeleto Tene: ok, will try that
Tene see: bash -c 'export FOO=omghai'; echo $FOO 00:43
whiteknight dukeleto: As much as I can, yes. I'm probably in bed within an hour 00:45
dukeleto whiteknight: feel free to port create_language.pl and mk_language_shell.pl to git before you go to bed 00:46
Tene: i still have the problem of quotes inside of quotes 00:47
Tene: i need to use variables to get around that?
Tene dukeleto: you won't if that's all in a separate file. 00:48
dukeleto Tene: i still have the problem.
Tene What you pasted is fine, except you need to remove the \\s
hm?
post the proposed file contents
dukeleto Tene: i will try that
whiteknight dukeleto: I'll see what I can do. I'm no git expert, but I'll give it the old college try 00:49
from what I remember about college, this is going to require some beer, apparentl
dukeleto "dukeleto") n="Jonathan "Duke" Leto" ; m="jonathan@leto.net" ;; 00:50
Tene: that isn't valid
Tene: it causes ./transform_parrot_authors.sh: 130: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string
whiteknight: there are both names with single and double quotes
Tene: ^^^ was meant for you
dukeleto can't be trusted to tab complete at this point
Tene Ah. 00:52
dukeleto: can you post the entire thing?
dukeleto I think i've solved it
Tene you need to \\" the "s, but leave the 's alone
whiteknight I'm pretty unfamiliar with this code. I doubt I'll be able to update it tonight 00:54
dukeleto whiteknight: no worries. 00:55
whiteknight: isn't it fun to maintain two almost identical scripts?
gist.github.com/663479 00:56
Tene: ^^^ take a look at that. It seems to not have syntax errors, which is a start.
Tene dukeleto: the alternative is to use a slightly awkward quoted heredoc, if you don't want a separate file. 00:57
Yeah, that looks fine to me, afaict.
dukeleto Rewrite e927c24745ffe50d968f9d175db0a35590231294 (1/40300)eval: 1: source: not found 00:59
can't use 'source', since git uses 'sh'
Tene Ah.
dukeleto sh -c works
Tene in sh, 'source' is spelled '.'
sh -c won't work. 01:00
dukeleto filter branch we go!!!
Tene that launches a separate process.
dukeleto Tene: hmm. it *seems* to be working.
Tene is it actually rewriting?
If it is, git must be doing something clever
dukeleto Tene: can't tell until it is done.
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Tene See, it will *run* just fine, but it won't affect the environment variables, unless git does something special. 01:01
dukeleto Tene: i am using . now
Tene: i belive you. i killed it and i am now using . :)
filter branch is doing a few dozen commits per second, and is much faster
it is on commit 1000 already 01:02
dukeleto crosses fingers
cotto great!
Tene FTR, the way to get arbitrary-delimiter quoting in sh is: 01:03
FOO=$(cat <<'END'
...
END
)
everything up to END is literally quoted, no interpolation or escaping or anything.
dukeleto kills the old git svn clone process. Good riddance.
Tene the ''s around END are important. 01:04
sorear ln -s $( which parrot-nqp ) ~/bin/sh # problem solved
cotto very good riddance
sorear (delete ~/bin/sh ASAP because a lot of other stuff will break)
dukeleto filter-branch seems to be more than 10% done already 01:06
01:17 kid51_at_dinner is now known as kid51
kid51 Should we be refraining from, ya know, doing actual work? 01:17
cotto suspects not until dukeleto explicitly says so 01:18
I think he can still incrementally update just fine 01:19
Once we have all the pieces in place, I'm hoping to send something to parrot-dev, etc spelling out the process so that everyone knows when and where it'll be safe to commit. 01:20
dukeleto filter branch has done about half of history already 01:23
cotto 'bout time something went quickly
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whiteknight why didn't you use filter-branch initially? 01:38
cotto it meant writing code, while the import didn't
whiteknight ok
cotto if the import had worked properly, it would have been faster 01:39
kid51 dalek is completely offline, which means we're not getting our last svn commit messages 01:49
cotto correct 01:50
dukeleto Ref 'refs/heads/trunk' was rewritten 01:52
real\t48m30.970s
user\t39m21.810s
sys\t13m36.990s
gist.github.com/663533 <-- shortlog on the new repo 01:54
still some bugs
whiteknight: looks like you had both a lower case and an upper case name. Thanks for making life complicated.
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cotto Mark Glines and Infinoid show up separately 01:58
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cotto moritz's middle initial should probably have a period 02:12
Geoff Broadwell and kid51 have their nicks appended in parentheses 02:16
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cotto "Infinoid <Infinoid@d31e2699-5ff4-0310-a27c-f18f2fbe73fe>" looks suspicious 02:23
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cotto dukeleto, do you have the patience for another iteration of fixes? 02:35
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dukeleto cotto: yeah. i took a break. I am at PDX Hackathon 03:02
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dukeleto aloha, msg whiteknight your GCI task are unusably ambiguous. If you can add links and follow the template, that would be awesome 03:04
aloha dukeleto: OK. I'll deliver the message.
atrodo So what exactly is the difference between the import and the filter-branch methods? 03:06
dukeleto aloha: git svn clone vs git filter-branch 03:07
atrodo so, instead of redo-ing a svn clone, you filtered your existing one? 03:08
dukeleto aloha: yes. git is much faster than git+svn 03:10
aloha dukeleto: Okay.
dukeleto atrodo: ^^^
dukeleto can't seem to tab-complete today
atrodo okay. that makes more sense 03:11
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dukeleto just made a bunch of Parrot-related GCI tasks 04:16
cotto are you doing round 2 of filter-branch now? 04:21
dukeleto cotto: nope. 04:23
cotto: i am enjoying myself at a bar, without that laptop :) 04:24
cotto: should we email parrot-dev and ask people if they are happy with the names?
cotto dukeleto: have a moderate amount of fun then
dukeleto cotto: i don't want people complaining after it happens, but i don't know how much to care about it now
cotto sounds like a good idea
dukeleto cotto: sould i ask parrot-dev about the author map? or is it not worth it? 04:28
cotto: also, what about converting mk_language_shell.pl and create_language.pl ? Does it matter if we do them after the git conversion?
cotto My concern is that they could get dropped on the floor and bitrot, but I also don't want them holding the move any further than it's already been held up. 04:29
+1 to going ahead and fixing them post-move
dukeleto cotto: sounds good to me. they are the only tools left to convert, so they will happen soon after the conversion, if anybody cares about them 04:32
cotto: what do you think about the "revision" key in parrot_config ?
cotto: do we make it some huge number post-git-conversion, so old tools get the message that they don't have a new enough parrot?
cotto dukeleto: that makes some amount of sense. 04:33
though after git o'clock "revision" doesn't have much meaning 04:34
"mu" would be a fitting, if unhelpful, value 04:35
dukeleto cotto: converting those tools depends on certain parrot_config keys existing, so they are non-trivial to port 04:36
cotto: think of every script that expects to ask parrot it's "revision"
cotto: git should just give a huge number, that never existed in SVN, to signal "you are too old, bitches"
cotto Yes. We can't just drop it from parrot_config all at once.
dukeleto cotto: i can see dropping the "revision" key after 1 or 2 stable releases, after the conversion 04:37
cotto but for now we need a strategery
dukeleto cotto: but we need to have a new key, that git-aware tools will use
cotto: there is already a "version" key, but we need a key that represents a "sha1" 04:38
cotto: for the case of depending on a specific sha1
cotto dukeleto, I don't like depending on a specific sha1. I'm still holding out on us figuring out a sane way to determine how recent the source of a build is. 04:39
what's the use case for depending on a sha1? 04:40
Tene cotto: consider 'git describe' 04:41
dukeleto cotto: there are 2 use cases 04:44
cotto: a HLL/external project can depend on a version number or a sha1
cotto: nothing in between 04:45
cotto: for instance, development versions will depend on sha1's
cotto: a project can only depend on a sha1 if parrot.git is available
cotto dukeleto, the problem I see is that that approach will fail if the user doesn't have that exact version of parrot installed
dukeleto cotto: otherwise, only a version number 04:46
cotto: there is a git command to see if one sha1 is contained by another
cotto: so that problem won't occur
cotto: there is a way to say "do you have something newer than this sha1?"
cotto ok. Access to a git repo isn't onerous for a development version.
dukeleto right. if parrot_config tells us parrot lives in a directory that happens to be a git repo, the thing can depend on a sha1. Otherwise, not. 04:49
cotto: make sense? 04:50
cotto yup
dukeleto cotto: i sent something to parrot-dev, asking people what usernames they want 04:54
cotto: perhaps that was dumb, but i will at least give people a chance
cotto Sure. Give it over the weekend and we can make the move early next week. 04:57
or sooner if you're not feeling that patient 04:58
dukeleto, is that the last of the migration bugs or is there more work that can be done in parallel?
dukeleto cotto: there are still lots of things on the migration wiki 05:00
cotto: the create_language and mk_language_shell scripts are probably the most important to work on
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cotto dukeleto: do you think it could happen early next week? Later than that is getting a little close to the 2.10 release. 05:01
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dukeleto cotto: hard to say. I will be on a work trip from nov 7-12th 05:08
cotto: but i want to get this shite done.
cotto dukeleto, I very much feel the same way 05:10
dukeleto cotto: good to know :) 05:11
cotto: this has been dragging on too long. We need to cut the cord
cotto +yes
dukeleto, I'd rather have a slightly rocky transition with a few minor artifacts than have this drag on for much longer while we make it perfect. 05:13
I really want to tell people "Sorry for the bumps but we're done now. Get back to work." 05:14
s/tell/be able to tell/
dukeleto cotto: take a look at trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GoogleC...n2010Tasks 05:22
cotto: i added a bunch of smaller tasks
cotto looks
dukeleto cotto: one is to research (compare+contrast) Dalvik and Parrot
cotto: please add any others that you can think of
cotto I'd love a Perl 6 shirt. 05:23
good idea there
dukeleto cotto: too bad almost nobody wants to help 05:24
cotto: i made almost every task. I don't get why people don't want google to pay for students to get involved in their projects 05:25
cotto I'll get after myself to finish up that list of PMCs that would be good for GCI students.
dukeleto cotto: thanks. but simpler non-code tasks are even more valuable 05:26
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cotto dukeleto, it might just be because it's a new and unfamiliar program. When I think of where Parrot could use help, my instinct is to think almost exclusively in terms of code. 05:29
dukeleto cotto: yep. But we can use so much help in non-code tasks. Parrot doesn't know how to market itself.
cotto: Parrot doesn't know how to bring in new-comers.
cotto: Parrot doesn't have friendly documentation for newbies.
cotto dukeleto, historically we've been spoiled by a fairly regular stream of newcomers. I agree that we're not marketers by default and that we need to do more to attract new contributors of all kinds. 05:31
sorear once upon a time, dalek ran on feather, and I had the ability to debug it
cotto sorear, I logged in to feather to look at it until I realized that I have no idea about where dalek even lives.
sorear but after the last feather crash, diakopter moved dalek to a completely private VPS and I can't touch it
dukeleto sorear: perhaps you just need to ask him for access to fix it? 05:32
sorear yeah 05:33
just did so
dukeleto sorear++ # thanks for caring 05:34
cotto sorear++ indeed
and if you can get access, maybe you can share the love and/or figure out why it's not posting wiki/ticket changes 05:35
dukeleto sorear: fixing dalek's wiki-fu would be awesome 05:36
dukeleto attempts to leave the bar and get home
mikehh dukeleto: all my commits to svn have been based on my nick here, in fact I use the nick on github, how will that effect my commits to git - you have my full name there 05:39
cotto mikehh, if you tell github that the email address listed in the commit metadata is yours, it'll be linked to you. 05:43
github lets you add as many extra email addresses as you need from the user control panel 05:47
mikehh cotto: the email address is the current one I use 06:04
cotto then you're set
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smash hello everyone 10:37
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whiteknight msg dukeleto I would like all my commits under the "whiteknight" username, with that email address, thanks. 12:32
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:34
mikehh hi whiteknight 12:39
whiteknight hello mikehh, how are you today?
mikehh and yes, I think I also want commits under mikehh 12:40
whiteknight: passable, passable
whiteknight: how's the new job working out, other than the commute bit? 12:43
mikehh got to change platforms - brb 12:54
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whiteknight pretty well, actually. The commute isn't bad at all really 13:02
it's about an hour, but I can do computer work on the train, so it's a lot less stressful than driving
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whiteknight msg dukeleto I fixed those two tasks in GCI. I have more to add, but am short on time right now 13:23
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
whiteknight We really should do more to make Parrot i18n compatible. Even if we selected a language at compile time, that would be far better than we have now 13:58
Actually, I don't think that would be necessary. If we created hashes of error messages in PIR, Parrot could load a different msg hash at runtime depending on CLI flags 13:59
I suspect we wouldn't want type, attribute, and method names to change based on language, but we could probably do something to support that at compile-time if we absolutely wanted to
darbelo If you want to do do it at compile time you can probably hijack some of the CONST_STRING() infrastructure without too much problem. 14:00
whiteknight True. Instead of calling CONST_STRING with an actual C string argument, we call it with a slug. The build looks up the slugs in a file of error messages based on current language 14:02
CONST_STRING returns a Parrot STRING, a new CONST_LITERAL would simply place the literal text into the C code, like a preprocessor step
anyway, my point is: if we had an i18n infrastructure in place, we could come up with a million translation projects for GCI students 14:03
Plus, if system messages were stored in a hash at runtime, HLLs and user programs could trivially override their text 14:04
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cotto ~~ 14:46
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tadzik o/ 14:57
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whiteknight You know what I would really really like? Perl6 syntax highlighters included in some major packages 15:29
the code highlighting engines in MEdit and GEdit should definitely have it. pygments too. Geshi obviously
Geshi is used in Trac and MediaWiki, I believe
moritz whiteknight: vim7 comes with perl6.vim, iirc
atrodo Didn't vim ship it in this last version? 15:30
moritz and can be used through Text::VimColor
whiteknight okay, that's Vim. We need more
I think Geshi should definitely have perl 6 support. pygments is what's used on github, where rakudo lives 15:31
moritz problem is, Perl 6 isn't easy to parse
atrodo Vim is pretty much all I need
moritz maye I should experiment with it nonetheless
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whiteknight it probably doesn't need to be perfect. separating constants, variables, symbols, and braces would be a great start 15:32
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darbelo Whatever vim is doing, the others can probably do too. 15:38
cotto Unfortunately Perl 6 syntax highlighting makes slow computers less responsive. 15:40
where "slow computers" means anything <2gHz 15:41
whiteknight For most cases, I don't think we need super-complicated parsers. 15:42
you only need to differentiate between a few basic types of tokens
highlighting keywords and braces could be done extremely easily. sigiled variables too 15:43
cotto Sure. Even something minimal that did a few things correctly most of the time would be nice.
whiteknight example code on Wikipedia wouldn't need to be fancy, for instance. 15:44
Part of me would also like PIR syntax highlighters in a variety of places, but if that language dies tragically as I am hoping it would, that would be a wasted effort 15:45
I suspect winxed could be highlighted using javascript highlighting rules 15:46
darbelo Probably. The syntax is basically the same. 15:47
It's pretty much just PIR with javascript syntax.
And a few less misfeatures. 15:48
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tadzik after looking at Google CodeIn tasks, I could translate some stuff to Polish, not even as a special task 16:11
mikehh tadzik: we probably need you to mentor some GCI student for them to do it 16:16
tadzik cool 16:20
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whiteknight cotto: I've got i18n on the brain today. I'm going to try to put together a draft design I think 16:35
if you have any ideas, let me know. I'll send you a draft when I have it ready 16:36
dukeleto 'ello
whiteknight hello dukeleto++ 16:37
dukeleto whiteknight: good localtime()
whiteknight: thank you very much for improving the GCI tasks
i split up some of the translation tasks into many small tasks 16:38
added a "research" task to compare and contrast Dalvik and Parrot
added some "make a t-shirt" tasks for Parrot and Perl 6
whiteknight research to compare/contrast with Neko might be nice too 16:39
dukeleto whiteknight: i was gonna add that right now :) 16:40
whiteknight: are you reading my mind?
whiteknight some kind of a parrot census thing might also be nice: There are plenty of projects on Parrot that we don't know about
I'm just brain-storming now 16:41
dukeleto whiteknight: something like the yearly Git survey
whiteknight: please continue brainstorming :)
atrodo I think that's a great idea
dukeleto whiteknight: i just added the "compare neko+parrot" task 16:45
whiteknight in terms of the Product Management team, if we could have somebody put us together a list of projects depending on Parrot, their current status, and developer contact info, that would be invaluable 16:47
we do have a list on trac somewhere, though it's ugly
dukeleto Task : Create a short video/screencast about how Perl 5, Perl 6 and Parrot VM are related 16:52
dukeleto just created that
whiteknight: that sounds like a good idea 16:53
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dukeleto google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010...s-for.html <--- We got accepted to Google Code-In! 17:05
atrodo Yay!
dukeleto needs to write a blog post for parrot.org and blog.perlfoundation.org 17:06
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whiteknight dukeleto++ 17:09
I promise to get several more tasks into the list this weekend 17:10
dukeleto i didn't realize it, but only 20 orgs got into Code-In. We should be very proud of ourselves.
whiteknight++
jnthn Wow. 17:11
whiteknight I don't see many perl-related tasks in that list
jnthn Congrats, and nice work to everyone here who's been pushing the effort. :-)
atrodo Wow indeed
whiteknight I assume we're going to get more, and that Rakudo people will be putting some tasks in?
jnthn Is it open to having some Perl 6 tasks added? 17:12
OK. :-)
What are the dates people can submit?
I can probably think of and add some that I'd be happy to mentor.
whiteknight jnthn: We've been adding tasks to the list already. You can add them at any time if you want 17:13
trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GoogleC...n2010Tasks
jnthn whiteknight: OK.
whiteknight: No, I meant the dates there will be students able to take them. (more) 17:14
dukeleto jnthn: i've been adding Perl 6 tasks
jnthn $dayjob is kinda busy at the moment so I'd want to be able to give them proper attention.
dukeleto whiteknight: there are perl tasks. Keep scrolling
whiteknight ok
dukeleto jnthn: we can add tasks at any time 17:15
whiteknight What would it take to embed a new script handler into FireFox? 17:18
I know it can be done in IE using ActiveX
at least, for older versions of IE. I don't know about IE8 or IE9
atrodo whiteknight> I've wondered that myself 17:25
whiteknight I want to start a project to embed Parrot in C#. And then I want to use that in another project to allow using Parrot bytecode files in windows services and WCF web services 17:26
somewhere along the line, if I could get it running in a browser, I would love to do that as well
dukeleto whiteknight: sounds interesting 17:27
whiteknight the C# wrapper should be pretty thin, and will follow in parallel with the embedding API work, since function mappings will typically be 1:1
jnthn whiteknight: fwiw, I did manage to at least create a Parrot interpreter from C# once. 17:29
Using the externals stuff. 17:30
whiteknight jnthn, yeah I did it once too and wrote a blog post about it
that's why I know it should be simple for me to do it simultaneously with other API work
jnthn Oh, I'm not sure a blug.
*I
whiteknight ...I didn't understand that response at all
:)
jnthn I didn't write a blog post on it. :-) 17:31
.oO( Must save ablaut abuse for #perl6 )
whiteknight is envious that the mono people are using MediaWiki 17:41
and all we get is trac
dukeleto Let's only migrate one thing at a time :) 17:42
whiteknight no, I don't have any hopes that we will migrate away from trac at this point 17:43
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whiteknight part of me wonders why we chose Trac from the universe of all ticket trackers 18:04
Oooh, a new theme for our trac might be a nice project
darbelo There's a universe of ticket trackers? I'd be hard pressed to name more than a handful. 18:13
Heck, I don't think I've used anything other than Trac and Bugzilla for extended periods. 18:15
whiteknight en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...ng_systems 18:21
atrodo Ya, there's a lot of them. Not too many good ones 18:22
whiteknight I've used FogBugz, Bugzilla, RT, Gemini, JIRA, OTRS, TFS, not to mention things like sourceforge, googlecode, and github that we probably can't make use of on our own
darbelo I don't think we can use the various hosted or non-OS solutions. And if you take the timeframe of the migration into account. There's not much left on the list. 18:27
Trac doesn't strike me as a horrible too horrible a choice, really. 18:29
whiteknight I find it's wiki in particular to be extremely poor 18:33
maybe I'm just a wiki snob
the ticket tracker portion of it is decent enough 18:34
darbelo It's only poor if you compare to a real wiki :)
whiteknight acceptability though obscurity? Sounds like a microsoft strategy
darbelo It's more of a 'acceptability through reduced expectations' thing. 18:35
I don't expect Trac's wiki to be comparable to say MediaWiki. 18:37
Trac is a bug tracker that just happens to bundle a smallish wiki for your convenience. 18:38
Think SQLite vs PostgreSQL. You expect different things from each. 18:42
whiteknight I would like a lot more from our wiki software, eventually. I look at what Mono has, or Mozilla (both MediaWiki) and they use them to great effect hosting documentation and things 18:44
darbelo True, a better wiki could help. If it leads to better documentation and newbie-friendliness I'd even argue that losing bug tracker integration isn't a high price to pay. 18:47
whiteknight We don't use the integration to great effect now anyway 18:48
darbelo Also true.
But I don't have the time to really help on any of this, so I'm hesitant to advocate more work for other people :) 18:49
whiteknight I'm not advocating either, just idly complaining 18:51
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mikehh whiteknight: just looked at the wiki comparison, Trac seems to feature well 19:19
whiteknight: I tend to edit elsewhere then move it in 19:21
whiteknight: with approptiate markup in the wiki
dukeleto It's All Text, the firefox plugin, is a life saver. 19:23
mikehh not necessarily the best method, but I have used some bug-tracking systems that are truely horrible
dukeleto You click on a button on the text input field, and it pops up your $EDITOR, then replaces the content when you save+exit the editor
I couldn't have written the GCI task page without it
whiteknight I have never heard of that extension before 19:25
mikehh :-}
whiteknight mikehh: in general terms, the Trac wiki really is lacking, even if it does outperform some other issue tracking software
dukeleto whiteknight: try it. it will make you a happier person. 19:26
whiteknight dukeleto: any happier, and I will burst
darbelo Unless you use another browser :)
dukeleto addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125/
dukeleto does not shed a tear for those that use other browsers ;) 19:27
I tried Chrome for about 3 days. Then I wanted a browser that worked.
dukeleto is sure chrome has gotten better, but is too attached to the bazillion awesome FF extensions
darbelo Heh. I'm giving Camino a spin on the work laptop, it's not awful. 19:28
But then, it's basically firefox pretending to be a OSX app. 19:29
But I don't really demand too much out of a browser. Mostly, I'm fine with anything that browses :) 19:32
sorear elinks has the F4 key for this :) 19:34
dukeleto i am concerned about getting no resonse about my email about the git conversion to parrot-dev 19:37
i guess no one cares about how their names show up
darbelo My name shows up fine. FWIW. 19:39
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dukeleto darbelo++ # making my life easy 19:41
darbelo There seems to be trouble for a few names though. paul_the_greek's for example. 19:42
mikehh dukeleto: re: the list, I was wondering what happens if I commit as mikehh 19:43
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dukeleto darbelo: yeah. I saw that. 19:43
mikehh: git has author names and emails. mikehh is a svn username
mikehh dukeleto: it is also my username on github 19:44
dukeleto mikehh: look at one of your git commits to see what your author name and email are
whiteknight dukeleto: I sent you an msg about it this morning 19:45
dukeleto: you have the link to that gist handt?
handy?
dukeleto whiteknight: i got your message, you are good :) 19:46
whiteknight w00t
dukeleto: when are you pushing the finished masterpiece to github? 20:04
I'm getting ansty in my pantsies 20:07
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atrodo cotto_work lives! 20:42
cotto_work so it would appear
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#946) fulltest) at r49786 - Ubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize) 20:50
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NotFound_gf hi 21:45
sorear hi 21:49
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