Parrot 3.2.0 released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Goals: Get more GSoC ideas on wiki; close tickets; stable 3.2 release; assess status of roadmap goals for 3/15 meeting.
Set by moderator on 15 March 2011.
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dalek rrot/m0-spec: 590d4dc | cotto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
define "thunk"
 00:10
rrot/m0-spec: ea642d1 | cotto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
spell out the alternative ffi concepts more explicitly
bubaflub dukeleto: my talk for YAPC::NA got accepted! 00:13
whiteknight bubaflub++ 00:14
what is the talk about?
bubaflub my GSoC experience from 2 years ago with Math::Primality
whiteknight oh nice 00:15
bubaflub and some other fun stuff along the way 00:16
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cotto ~~ 01:12
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dalek p/ctmo: 73f5c94 | tene++ | / (4 files):
Merge branch 'master' into ctmo

Conflicts:
  \tbuild/Makefile.in		 01:27
p/ctmo: 26d43ed | tene++ | / (14 files):
Merge branch 'ctmo' of github.com:perl6/nqp into ctmo
p/ctmo: a6496e3 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
Make lexical package declarations kinda work (symbol installation is lexical, though a bunch of other bits to do to have real leixcal packages). First actual use of the static lexpad stuff.
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cotto will be talking at yapc::na 02:09
bubaflub cotto: yeah, i saw your talk about Parrot... looks cool 02:13
cotto bubaflub, thanks 02:14
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atrodo marks cotto 02:33
's talk
why does ' and enter have to be so close?
cotto Phew. I figured sweeping would be next. 02:34
atrodo awww, i can't mark the talk yet 02:37
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dukeleto evidently missed an epic #ps today 03:13
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cotto dukeleto, there was an after party 03:25
and by "after party", I mean "python on parrot planning meeting" 03:26
dukeleto cotto: yes, i read all the logs 03:38
cotto: good stuff. very exciting
cotto: you got a talk accepted to YAPC::NA ?
cotto dukeleto, I did. They were pretty fast. 03:42
dukeleto cotto: i got a lightning talk accepted 03:44
cotto dukeleto, I love lightning talks 03:45
dukeleto plans to throw lightning bolts at the crowd
cotto I see bubaflub also has a talk
... 03:46
On the list of talks, mine, "Parrot: State of the VM" is right below mst's "State of the Velociraptor"
better names are welcome. I didn't want to block on that. 03:47
cotto sees no chromatic and is sad 03:48
dukeleto cotto: "State of the Aviary/Nest" ? 03:50
cotto: yep, i told him to submit a talk about his gsoc project 03:51
cotto: i wonder if they are still going to add more talks, or if that is "it"
cotto dukeleto, I'll start writing it and see what kind of a title fits. 03:52
their deadline is tomorrow, but I'm sure they'll let stragglers in for a little bit
Util Didn't Allison call it the "State of the Carrot" at a past YAPC? 03:53
cotto I don't recall that. 03:54
Util, do you remember what year?
allison "What do you get when you cross a Camel with a Parrot?"
yes, two years running
cotto dukeleto, actual deadline is the 24, I guess
allison er... years, it was while I was president of tpf 03:55
so, like 2004-5ish?
or 2003-4ish
cotto so before my time
allison yah
but, the pun is really intended for Perl-on-Parrot 03:56
cotto I'm hoping I can find a suitably punful title.
allison plus, reusing it may bring back PTSD memories of the terrible carrot jokes I told, so possibly best avoided :) 03:57
Util Google says "State of the Carrot" has 22m of video online
dukeleto allison: very exciting to read the irc logs about pynie stuff that was talked about in #ps today 03:58
plobsing that's a lot of root vegetable related comedy
allison dukeleto: yeah, I'm happy with the strategy 03:59
plobsing: if you get the YAPC::EU version I'm also severely jetlagged. there are somethings one might wish weren't recorded for all posterity ;)
cotto now I have to watch 04:00
allison :)
dukeleto allison: would you mind sending a quick email to parrot-dev summarizing what the current plan is? Basically just a copy-and-paste of your summary towards the end of the #ps after-party
allison: the plan for pynie, that is 04:01
allison dukeleto: sure, not tonight, but will do tomorrow
dukeleto allison: very exciting stuff. I want to make sure everybody hears about it
allison: works for me
cotto: well, we both will be at YAPC::NA, so it is time to start planning a hackathon 04:06
cotto +yes 04:07
and a BoF session
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kid51 ~~ 12:21
dukeleto kid51: mornin' 12:23
Coke msg bacek your blog is added to the planet. 12:41
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
Coke Your distinctiveness will be added to our own.
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atrodo never realized planet parrot was the borg 12:51
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Luiji99 Is there a way to compile Parrot without Perl? 12:57
atrodo I'm pretty sure that perl is a hard dependency for parrot at this point 12:58
Luiji99 That should be removed. I mean, what if someone want's to use Parrot/blizkost as the Perl implementation? 13:01
Wait...oh, dumb old me!
It appears Blizkost uses the normal Perl implementation anyway! 13:02
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 13:15
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dukeleto whiteknight: mornin' 13:29
benabik: how goes it? 13:30
benabik dukeleto: Coffffeeeeee....
dukeleto benabik: yes, I am pre-coffee as well. Not a pretty sight...
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benabik dukeleto: What's up in the world of #parrot this morning? Saw there was an interesting discussion in #ps yesterday after I had to leave. 13:50
dukeleto benabik: python on parrot (pynie) is coming alive again. pypy and parrot peeps look like they will work together 13:51
benabik Excellent. I really need to learn Python. It really took off at my school while I was off working between my BS and MS. 13:52
atrodo I was excited to see such a great conversation take place last night. it was a good read 13:53
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novabyte benabik: probably because MIT switched to teaching python :) 13:53
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benabik novabyte: That I hadn't heard. I think RIT does three quarters of Python and one of Java now for their base CS classes. 13:54
dukeleto novabyte: switched from what? 13:55
novabyte dukeleto: scheme if I remember correctly 13:56
dukeleto I remember that my university CS dept classes were all Java, which was one of the reasons I switched to math :)
novabyte dukeleto: Java's not so bad, it's what I learnt to program with. The extensive collection of libraries and the ease with which you can incorporate them into your packages is nice. Of course learning smalltalk and C is also sweet. 13:58
moritz it's just not very expressive 13:59
novabyte moritz: very much agreed :) 14:00
dukeleto benabik: are you going to apply to GSoC this year? 14:01
novabyte: are you a prospective gsoc student as well?
novabyte moritz: and the standard lib is ridiculously verbose (as are most java libraries).
moritz novabyte: as are nearly all libraries, due to lack of expressiveness
benabik dukeleto: That's the plan. Was interested in working on a parser generator, although the PyPy project sounds interesting. :-D Apps open in a week or so, right? 14:02
moritz will never volunteer to do high-level programming work in a language without closures
benabik *PyPy, Pynie, whatever-we're-calling-python-on-parrot-today
moritz pypal!
novabyte dukeleto: I'm a masters student trying to sort out a thesis topic. I spoke a bit with atrodo and whiteknight about it. I mentioned the discussion to my supervisor... who unsurprisingly hasn't got back to me...
benabik: pyrot? :) 14:03
benabik novabyte: Same boat here, although GSoC probably won't have much to do with my prospective thesis... That reminds me, I have to find out someone's office hours for this quarter...
novabyte benabik: maybe look at lemon for parser generator inspiration (and of course yacc and ANTLR) 14:04
benabik: www.hwaci.com/sw/lemon/ 14:05
benabik novabyte: Lemon looked interesting, but I seem to remember thinking poorly of it for some reason. My initial thinking was to use the age-old yacc algorithm, although parser derivatives really caught my eye. 14:06
atrodo moritz> Once i grasped closures, i started asking myself why I hadn't been using them since I learned programming 14:07
novabyte benabik: I'm intrigued, why did you think poorly of it?
benabik: not sure if this is of any interest: www.ialab.cs.tsukuba.ac.jp/~mizusi...ushima.pdf 14:09
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benabik novabyte: I don't remember. I may be thinking of something else... We covered a variety of generators in my compiler course last quarter and I get them a little confused sometimes. 14:09
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NotFound Hi 14:10
benabik o/ NotFound
novabyte benabik: fair enough, as far as I know lemon is rarely mentioned because it doesn't use the same (similar) grammar syntax as yacc/bison 14:11
benabik novabyte: Paper looks interesting, although I still need to figure out how PEGs are different than normal CFGs. 14:14
dalek nxed: r861 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
allow switch without any case
 14:16
novabyte benabik: no probs, I came across it after doing some reading on parser generators while porting lemon to the D programming language ;) 14:17
dukeleto benabik, novabyte : don't wait for your profs, GSoC will open up many opportunities for you.
benabik novabyte: Although my major worry with PEGs is that the only generator I've seen with PEGs didn't catch errors or abiguities in the grammar, which I've determined is a big no-no. (Also a problem I had with NQP.)
dukeleto i think Google will announce accepted orgs this week
benabik crosses fingers for PaFo. 14:18
novabyte dukeleto: GSoC as well as masters thesis?
benabik dukeleto: Wasn't planning on waiting for any profs for GSoC. :-D 14:19
dukeleto benabik: good idea 14:20
novabyte benabik: you're going to juggle a thesis too?
dukeleto novabyte: what is your thesis topic?
benabik: which projects are you interested in? You can of course propose your own, but we have lots of ideas on our wiki page
aloha, gsoc ideas? 14:21
aloha dukeleto: Sorry, I don't know.
benabik novabyte: Probably going to start on my thesis next year.
My real hope is to create a parser library or generator that can make P6 style grammars but notice if you do stupid things like recursion it can't handle or mis-spell rules. NQP is not newbie-friendly in that regard.
dukeleto aloha, gsoc ideas is trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GSoc2011
aloha dukeleto: Okay.
dukeleto benabik: interesting 14:22
novabyte dukeleto: I've four possible titles, although I think two are "solutions searching for problems" these days... and one is a straightforward implementation project
benabik dukeleto: That's probably going to take bit longer than GSoC... Was interested in doing a (LA)LR generator at least. 14:23
novabyte dukeleto: "Superoptimization using Answer Set Programming (draft title)"
dukeleto: "A compiler framework for Helper Threading (draft title)" 14:24
dukeleto: "An Oberon-2 Compiler with the LLVM (draft title)"
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novabyte dukeleto: and the last one is some sort of project work involving the Parrot VM rewrite Lorito (or M0) 14:25
whiteknight novabyte: I was a GSoC student when I was still a master's student 14:27
benabik dukeleto: My prof. last quarter created a LR parser in a weekend using Javascript. I'm hoping a full summer is more than enough for me to do something similar via NQP/Winxed.
whiteknight I did GSoC over the summer, then finished my thesis the next semester
novabyte whiteknight: I do part-time web application development work already... it pays the bills :) 14:28
whiteknight novabyte: Ah, gotcha. I was "unemployed" that summer, except for GSoC
novabyte whiteknight: i think juggling the three would be too challenging.
whiteknight yes, I would recommend against it 14:29
unless somehow you were getting school credit for one of them
novabyte benabik: javascript is a nice language for parser generators, javascript.crockford.com/tdop/tdop.html
whiteknight: exactly ;)
NotFound whiteknight: you can do some conditional compiling in Winxed using if with a constant condition. 14:30
dukeleto novabyte: you should plan on spending 20 hours a week on gsoc stuff, at least 14:31
novabyte dukeleto: it's like a part-time job. it'd add up to two part-time jobs and a thesis... 14:32
benabik novabyte: My friend did a full-time job and a thesis... Only took him an extra year or two. :-/ 14:33
novabyte benabik: it's a masters thesis, I only have (approx) 6 months. 14:34
benabik novabyte: Although some of that was taken up by the switch from "You can use algorithm X for Y" do "Algorithm X can't do Y".
novabyte: His was a master's as well... My school gives a few years to complete, IIRC, although you have to figure out what to do with yourself once you've finished the coursework. 14:35
novabyte benabik: ah ok, it's only one year for me.
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whiteknight NotFound: winxed automatically optimized out branches which are impossible to take? 14:36
NotFound whiteknight: yes, if the condition is recognized as a compile time evaluable constant. 14:38
The branch must pass the parse phase, though. 14:39
whiteknight okay
NotFound BTW, it's one of the very few things mentioned in the FAQ ;) 14:42
whiteknight I stopped reading the winxed documentation. It rarely answers my questions 14:43
NotFound As Leonard Cohen said in other context, I'm your "man" 14:46
benabik Winxed looks interesting, but it seems a little documentation-lite. 14:49
NotFound benabik: yes, but for a now its target is people used to parrot and with programming experience, so is not a bif obstacle as may seem. 14:53
s/bif/big
benabik NotFound: I will admit, it looks interesting. Seems to be aiming for a C-like niche for Parrot? Close to the "machine" but actually friendly to us poor humans. 14:57
NotFound benabik: yes, in some way winxed tries to be to pir as C is to assembler. 15:00
whiteknight what I like about winxed is that it's very low level and doesn't attempt to hide any bits of the underlying machine from you 15:02
basically, it's a systems-level language for Parrot with no other presumptions
benabik NotFound: Is your github repo kept up to date, or should I just git-svn from code.google?
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NotFound benabik: not, that was just an early test of migration, not updated. 15:03
I've not used git-svn, but I suppose it works. 15:04
benabik NotFound: Fair enough. I just had hoped to skip waiting for git-svn to read 800+ revisions.
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benabik NotFound: It works, mostly. It can get confused, but less so now than it used to. Still not as fast as I'd like, but c'est la vie. 15:05
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tadzik hello parrot 15:21
dalek sella: 5ce5032 | Whiteknight++ | CREDITS:
update CREDITS, on request from the image author
 15:25
sella/gh-pages: 3a6976d | Whiteknight++ | index.html:
fix attribution at the request of the author
whiteknight hello tadzik
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whiteknight I think Google announces GSoC mentoring organizations on the 18th 16:52
the wait is killing me
tadzik (: 16:54
oh come on
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cotto_work ~~ 17:00
tadzik hello 17:01
davidfetter oh hai
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benabik lunch & 17:18
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dukeleto ~~ 18:33
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allison TimToady/pmichaud: I can actually make it to sixperl today, is it on? 19:46
dalek nxed: r862 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
refactor function parameters and avoid emiting an unuseful annotation at
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nxed: r863 | NotFound++ | trunk/ (3 files):
update installable files
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dalek rrot: 1868a49 | nwellnhof++ | src/pmc/socket.pmc:
Return 0 in socket code for compatibility
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bacek_at_work ~~ 22:24
Coke, thank for planet
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whiteknight bacek++ 22:45
also, bacek++ 22:54
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whiteknight plobsing: ping 23:53
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