Parrot 3.2.0 released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Parrot is accepted for GSoC 2011! Student application deadline is Apr 8
Set by moderator on 27 March 2011.
cotto bacek, do you know of anything that should be added to that file? 00:18
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dalek rrot: 48f56a3 | petdance++ | lib/Parrot/Pmc2c/Method.pm:
Annotate non-SHIM PMC arguments in generated PMC C code
 03:23
cotto dukeleto, ping 03:30
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dalek tracwiki: v1 | cotto++ | ParrotTalks 05:27
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotT...ction=diff
benabik I wonder if I can make my way to NC in June... 05:28
cotto benabik, it's always fun to have more Parrot hackers around. 05:31
benabik cotto: It just occurred to me that the main thing I'll be doing over the summer is hacking on Parrot, so heading down there isn't really going to take away from anything else. 05:32
cotto: (Hacking on Parrot, hopefully...) 05:33
cotto benabik, all the better.
Even if nobody else shows up, I'm sure dukeleto, kid51 and I will spend some quality hacking time together. 05:34
benabik cotto: I'll look into it. Flights are a bit steep (ROC isn't the cheapest to fly out of), but I might be able to work out something. 05:37
benabik should probably also ask the wife. :-D 05:42
cotto that's one advantage of being single 05:47
benabik Aye, but I'm willing to put up with it. ;-) 05:49
cotto not at all saying it's a bad trade-off 05:51
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benabik cotto: Are there reg fees? The site seems a little haphazard. 06:10
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cotto worst header ever 06:20
yapc is intended as an affordable high-quality conference, but there is a fee of some kind 06:21
Once you sign up, it'll be on the "edit profile" page, just where you'd expect 06:23
benabik Mail got eaten by spamassassin.
cotto special 06:24
benabik Ah, the info I was looking for needed a login. Whee. $90 isn't too bad. Hopefully will be there. :-) 06:26
cotto great 06:33
benabik It's amusing that it'll be cheaper to rent a car and drive there than to fly. Although the 12 hour drive is less amusing. 06:36
benabik is not sure why he's still up.
cotto you should probably do something about that 06:37
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cotto anyone familiar with Open Source Bridge? 08:03
tadzik this one in which you see the players' hands? 08:19
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cotto plobsing, ping (with short timeout) 08:52
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dalek rrot/packfile_wrap: 37ce94f | cotto++ | docs/project/hacking_tips.pod:
add some tips on reducing unhelpful randomness
 09:13
rrot/packfile_wrap: 48f56a3 | petdance++ | lib/Parrot/Pmc2c/Method.pm:
Annotate non-SHIM PMC arguments in generated PMC C code
rrot/packfile_wrap: 6f1f07b | bacek++ | / (5 files):
Merge branch 'master' into packfile_wrap
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 10:55
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moritz good morning whiteknight 11:07
whiteknight hello moritz 11:18
bacek aloha, whiteknight 11:51
whiteknight good morning bacek
bacek it's kind of late evening here :)
whiteknight good late evening, backe 11:52
bacek
bacek :)
whiteknight, looks like I fixed "all" problems of maser in packfile_wrap banch 11:53
whiteknight bacek: what's the story with the packfile_wrap branch? It
bacek branch
whiteknight okay, so can we merge it?
I'm working on unmerging imcc_compreg_pmc from master now, and it's very messy
bacek At least I couldn't reproduce rakudo's segfault anymore.
whiteknight is it really much slower?
bacek Nope. About same as master. 11:54
whiteknight okay, that's what I was hoping
let's merge it
bacek Let's _review_ it first.
whiteknight damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead!
okay. I'll review it
:)
bacek I've made all this changes in kind of harry.
My confidence level is still quite high, but I want more eyes on it 11:55
"hurry"
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whiteknight okay. I'll spend today looking at it and reviewing/testing. We can merge tonight (tomorrow morning for you) 11:56
We'll do all the testing while you sleep :)
bacek Sounds like a good plan :) 11:59
whiteknight bacek++ 12:00
bacek doesn't sleep. He recharges.
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whiteknight I'm going to build and test the branch with ms2 first, since that's the default. When all tests Pass I'm moving over to gms 12:06
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jaffa4 hi 12:47
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dukeleto ~~ 14:23
jaffa4: hola 14:27
jaffa4 hola que tal?
dukeleto jaffa4: enjoying a lazy sunday morning 14:29
jaffa4 that is somthing 14:30
dukeleto cotto: pong
jaffa4: what brings you to #parrot ?
jaffa4 chance 14:31
dukeleto msg benabik yes, you should go to YAPC::NA this year. There will be some kind of hackathon
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
jaffa4 I added one line for debuggin parrot
and the result is crash 14:32
dukeleto jaffa4: fun!
jaffa4 sound like fun?
dukeleto jaffa4: people in here have a warped sense of fun :)
jaffa4 some people like challenges 14:33
dukeleto jaffa4: i think it is safe to say that parrot hackers like a good challenge
jaffa4: what was the one line debug statement?
jaffa4 puts(full_name); 14:34
dukeleto jaffa4: can you gist/nopaste the diff?
jaffa4 library.c line 680, insert that line. 14:35
dukeleto jaffa4: if you need help debugging something about parrot, asking in here and on the parrot-dev mailing list are the best options
jaffa4: which version of parrot?
jaffa4: also, what are you trying to debug? 14:36
jaffa4: is something not working as you would expect?
jaffa4 3.2.0 commit 2c7060dd68e4c2badd44a140597a0bb7d82e440d
Yes
I am trying to execute Perl6 pbc 14:37
and I get "load_language" couldn't find a compiler module for the language 'perl6'
by the way
dukeleto jaffa4: ah
jaffa4 What would you use for debugging?
dukeleto jaffa4: sounds like you didn't install perl6, only compiled it. does that sound right? 14:38
jaffa4: rakudo perl6 needs to be installed for some things to work correctly, like library loading
jaffa4 per6 installed
working
I just want to run pbc
using parrot 14:39
dukeleto aloha nopaste?
aloha dukeleto: nopaste is is nopaste.snit.ch (works with the script in $_PARROT/tools/dev/nopaste.pl)
dukeleto jaffa4: can you nopaste exactly what commands you are running and the error messages?
jaffa4: that will help us help you
jaffa4 nopaste.snit.ch/40730
dukeleto jaffa4: have you asked the people in #perl6 on freenode? They may be able to help as well 14:43
jaffa4 yes
asked
ok 15:03
I can debug it now
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jaffa4 hi Cokr 15:11
hi Coke
dukeleto jaffa4: did you make progress? 15:19
jaffa4 yes
dukeleto jaffa4: good to hear
jaffa4: what was the issue?
jaffa4 path is not set
or I do not know how to set the oath 15:20
-L
-I has not effect
dukeleto jaffa4: aha!
jaffa4 This is what I expected somewhere
The difference is I know now what the path is 15:21
so I managed to test the speed of small Perl 6 program
benabik ~ 15:34
dukeleto: I'm going to try to get to YAPC::NA. Possibly depends on finding a friend or maybe someone from Buffalo.pm to share travel/room expenses with. 15:36
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dukeleto benabik: sounds awesome. I promise you will have fun. 15:42
jaffa4: what are your results?
jaffa4 very bad
a loop from 1..10000 that contains $p++ 15:43
ran for 50 seconds
for 1..10000 { $p++}
benabik jaffa4: In Rakudo? 15:44
jaffa4 rakudo
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jaffa4 without compilation times 15:45
just running pbc
benabik That does seem poor, I got 4.9 sec for `time perl6 -e 'my $p; $p++ for 1..10000; say $p'`
jaffa4 sorry 15:47
100000
I missed one digit
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benabik Huh. I couldn't get perl6 to output a pbc. Wierd. 15:48
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jaffa4 I do not know how weird is that 15:51
perl6 outputs pir
then I convert pir into pbc using parrot
thatI run pbc using parrot
benabik jaffa4: 50 seconds then seems above average. I just got 1m29.757s 15:52
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benabik (Although I'm just running via -e so that includes compilation, etc.) 15:52
jaffa4 compilation 1 second 15:53
benabik jaffa4: Compiling using perl6 -o ?
jaffa4 yes 15:54
benabik That does nothing for me. That's the weird part. 15:55
jaffa4 perl6 --target=pir -oD:\\m\\p6\\pirout.pir D:\\m\\p6\\e.p6? 15:56
benabik And ruby accomplishes the same task in 0.039 seconds. Bleh.
Ah. Forgot the --target=pi
*pir
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jaffa4 not a oroblem of parrot 16:04
similar program written in pir
runs in 0.05 seconds
benabik It does $p 100_000 times in only 30s, so the dispach and execution of postfix:<++> is a big part of the problem, although that loop could likely be tightened somewhere. 16:05
jaffa4 here is pir program 16:06
that does it more efficiently
nopaste.snit.ch/40731
benabik jaffa4: Do you know enough NQP to try it there? I'm curious where the inefficiency is, exactly. I'm betting some of it is because Rakudo using Integer PMCs instead of Integer registers. 16:07
jaffa4 What is NOP? 16:08
benabik Ah. Well, I'll try after lunch.
jaffa4 I think
benabik NQP = Not Quite Perl
It's the language much of Rakudo is written in. (installed by parrot as parrot-nqp) 16:09
jnthn__ I'm curious how Rakudo should know to use integer registers in that program. :)
jaffa4 by program analysis
jnthn__ *sigh*
benabik jnthn__: True enough, but the PIR code he wrote uses the registers, so I'm wondering if the PMCs are that much slower.
jnthn__ benabik: It's *much* more than that, that makes it slow. 16:10
jaffa4 I guess that problem is that variables are looked up by their name
jnthn__ jaffa4: There's a *lot* of reasons. I talked about a lot of them in www.jnthn.net/papers/2011-nlpw-rakudo.pdf 16:11
jaffa4 ok. noone said rakudo was written for performance 16:12
jnthn__ That hasn't been a focus so far.
It's becoming one now that it's got a lot of features in place.
jaffa4 yes
it is clear
I just wanted to have first hand experience
benabik jaffa4: Rakudo has nothing resembling an optimization phase, AFAICT. Static analysis probably can't get down to integer registers, but might be able to only perform the variable lookup once. 16:13
(Might.)
jnthn++ # Awesome and informative presentations
jnthn__ In NQP I played with an optimization that can reduce various lexicals to local register accesses. Full-blown Perl 6 is much more complex than NQP so it's harder to apply the optimization...needs more analysis. 16:15
I'm still hopeful it's do-able though. :) 16:16
benabik jnthn__: Shouldn't that be possible with tree analysis?
Or does full Rakudo skip PAST somewhere?
jnthn__ No, Rakudo certainly makes PAST. 16:18
benabik I'd think tree-analysis on the PAST would make the job similar between NQP and Rakudo. (Admittedly, I haven't tried.) 16:19
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jnthn__ There's probably plenty of interesting work there, yes. 16:21
At the moment I'm worrying more about optimizing our building blocks.
benabik Fair enough, I don't actually want to distract you from the awesomeness of 6model 16:22
jnthn__ :)
Yes, my tuit supply for that seems to have improved. Hoping to get lots of progress in the next couple of weeks. Also started doing more docs... 16:23
jaffa4 where is 6model?
benabik Oooo, documentation 16:24
jnthn__ jaffa4: The Parrot implementation of 6model lives in the nqp repo at the moment.
benabik: Yes. Want to make examples of how to build different kinds of object system with 6model. :) 16:25
jaffa4 gradual typing 16:26
WHat is it?
benabik jnthn__: So you can say RTFM when people say "But [insert language here]'s object system won't work in 6model"?
jnthn__ benabik: ;)
jaffa4: It's where instead of either being fully dynamic or fully static, instead programs can choose to add more type information. Then the compiler can use it to produce better programs and give more safety. 16:27
cotto dukeleto, do you have some notes on what your yapc::na parrot talk will cover? It'd be nice to minimize overlap.
jaffa4 What more type information? 16:28
benabik jaffa4: Things like "my Int $p" instead of "my $p" 16:29
cotto whiteknight, ping
whiteknight pong
jaffa4 oh I know what you mean
jnthn__ benabik: Yes, that. 16:30
cotto whiteknight, kid51 had a couple fairly minor patches for tickets he wanted to see in 3.3. Are we frozen yet?
whiteknight not frozen yet, no. go ahead
cotto ok
whiteknight I'm probably going to merge bacek's packfile_wrap branch tonight. That will mark the start of feature freeze 16:31
bugs and fixes of course are always welcome
cotto awesome
bacek++ did some good work there 16:32
dalek rrot: 370a418 | cotto++ | / (4 files):
Introduce --with-llvm option to explicitly link to LLVM

fixes tt #2092, patch courtesy of kid51++		 16:46
rrot: 73edd49 | cotto++ | t/op/spawnw.t:
Eliminate use of 'env'

fixes tt #2095, patch courtesy of kid51++
TT #2095 closed by cotto++: t/op/spawn.t: failure due to Perl 5 problem 16:50
TT #2095: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2095
luben whiteknight, I have tested packfile_wrap branch, (--gc=gmc --optimize=-O3). It compiles rakudo, its tests do not segfault, I got test fail only in t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/instants-and-durations.t but I think this failure is not related 17:01
jaffa4 What is IGLOBALS_LIB_PATH?
dalek TT #2092 closed by cotto++: config/auto/llvm.pm: Offer explicit optout 17:05
TT #2092: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2092
cotto jaffa4, that's an array of arrays of paths where parrot will look for different kinds of libraries 17:12
see enum_lib_paths in include/parrot/library.h for the list of what gets stored in that array 17:13
tadzik luben: that fail happens 17:15
luben: if you retry it, you'll probably get a PASS
my guess is just that Rakudo can't instantiate time object fast enough, and they don't match :) 17:16
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rohit_nsit08 hello #parrot 17:54
cotto I can't believe how many interesting-looking presentations OS Bridge has. 17:57
hio rohit_nsit08
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cotto rohit_nsit08, have you started hacking yet? 18:02
also, as someone who's continuing to realize how deep js can get, I'd highly recommend www.w2lessons.com/2011/04/you-dont-...cript.html 18:04
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rohit_nsit08 cotto: hi, sorry was away from system. yup i am studying winxed's stage 1 compiler. and some PIR also 18:12
cotto:i am focusing on implementing prototype based objects right now 18:14
whiteknight luben: Thanks. the instants test is not related 18:16
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kid51 Over the last few days, I've been running 'make test' and 'make fulltest' in both master and the packfile_wrap branch. I have generally gotten the same, good results in either branch on both Linux/i386 and Darwin/PPC. 19:38
whiteknight awesome
I'm testing packfile_wrap now with rakudo
kid51 Which makes me hopeful that if we merge packfile_wrap into master, we will continue to get good results.
Sadly, neither of my boxes has enough free space to test rakudo effectively. 19:39
So I haven't tried to build Rakudo in 8 months.
tadzik I tried it with packfile_wrap few days ago, it went okay
I mean, the spectests passed
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Tene kid51: if I gave you ssh access to an x86_64 box with plenty of space, would you have any use for it? 19:56
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kid51 Tene: Well, the only thing that I would possibly want to do that I can't do now is to test Rakudo on top of parrot or parrot branches. 20:27
So, yes, that would be useful ... though perhaps more for Rakudo than for me ;-)
kid51 would also welcome offers for access to boxes on other OSes, particularly FreeBSD or OpenBSD. 20:28
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dalek p/ctmo: 1d1ea2f | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/how/NQP (4 files):
Get packages meta-objects to set a hash in their .WHO (can promote it to some more full-on Stash type later, probably, but this is fine for now.) (Foo.WHO)<$x> := 42 style stuff now works fine.
 20:34
p/ctmo: 06f82a8 | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/knowhow_bootstrapper.c:
Should have a stash for KnowHOWs too.
p/ctmo: 9869549 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
s/$*PKGMETA/$*PACKAGE/ - it's the compile time $?PACKAGE, after all. Install $?PACKAGE. Set up a GLOBALish, though nothing is done with it just yet.
Tene kid51: Would you have interest in a VM server, to run other OSs on? I'm not interested in installing other OSs myself, but I could give you a few VMs on my server to to use. 20:48
kid51 Tene: Well, installing other OSes on VMs would probably be more work than I could take on right now. 20:52
Tene kid51: 'k. feel free to let me know if that changes. :) 20:53
kid51 But the x86_64 ... that would be Linux? which distro? 20:54
Tene kid51: yeah, linux. Probably fedora or CentOS. I'm replacing my old underpowered i386 home server as soon as I get around to installing an OS on the new box. 20:55
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gbens hello 21:40
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kid51 nopaste? 21:59
aloha, nopaste is nopaste.snit.ch/ 22:00
aloha kid51: ... but nopaste is is nopaste.snit.ch (works with the script in $_PARROT/tools/dev/nopaste.pl) ...
kid51 nopaste
benabik aloha: nopaste? 22:01
aloha benabik: nopaste is is nopaste.snit.ch (works with the script in $_PARROT/tools/dev/nopaste.pl)
kid51 So aloha insists on being followed by a colon.
benabik aloha, nopaste?
aloha benabik: nopaste is is nopaste.snit.ch (works with the script in $_PARROT/tools/dev/nopaste.pl)
benabik aloha nopaste?
aloha benabik: nopaste is is nopaste.snit.ch (works with the script in $_PARROT/tools/dev/nopaste.pl)
benabik kid51: Looks like aloha just insists on being addressed.
kid51 Yes, but when I privmsg aloha with that wording, she says she has no idea. 22:03
bacek good morning, humans
nopaste "gbens" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "prove -v t/dynoplibs/debug." (35 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/40741
"kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "t/dynoplibs/debug.t test #5 -- the one we're trying to debug now on darwin/intel" (11 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/40742 22:05
kid51 gbens: Yes, let's get that nopaste into a Trac ticket. 22:09
Have you set up a Trac account for yourself, yet?
gbens yes
kid51 So you should now be able to go to trac.parrot.org, log in (or refresh), and hit the New Ticket button 22:11
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gbens I've hit the new ticket button 22:12
benabik kid51: t/dynoplibs/debug.t passes for me on Darwin/intel. 22:13
kid51 benabik: Hold on. We're trying to figure out why it passes on some boxes but not others.
gbens: For Summary, enter: t/dynoplibs/debug.t: fails one test on some Darwin 22:14
benabik kid51: Let me know if I can help. I'll be distracted but will keep an eye out.
kid51 Thx. We're training gbens in how to file a TT as well.
gbens kid51: ok, I've put the summary 22:15
kid51 For Description: Ordinary text, you just type. Code blocks start with {{{ at the left margin, code starting on the next line, then code block closes with }}} at the right margin.
So you say something like: In my Smolder reports from Mac OS X 10.whatever, this test consistently fails for me. 22:16
Then, take the code that you just pasted and plug it in between the triple-brace lines.
Lemme know when you've got that.
gbens kid51: ok 22:21
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kid51 So now you see that there are various panes and such near the bottom of the page. 22:21
For component: Select 'testing'
For Platform: darwin
Then you can hit Preview to see if it displays okay. 22:22
Then you hit Create ticket
Don't worry too much about it; we can always fine-tune the description
gbens kid51: ok, ticket created 22:23
kid51 Yes. I just added a comment with the code for the test that's failing. 22:28
And I re-ragged some lines in the description.
gbens: In that ticket, can you post the version of Mac OS X you're on?
IIRC one of the Parrot GSOC projects is to overhaul the Parrot debugger. 22:29
Assuming that project gets assigned, we can have the GSOC student look at that ticket.
benabik: Can you add a note to TT #2096 about the version of Mac on which you do *not* get that failure? 22:30
gbens kid51: the OS version is in the first line of the description.
is there someplace else I should put it?
kid51 No, that's okay. 22:31
dalek TT #2096 created by gbens++: t/dynoplibs/debug.t: fails one test on some Darwin
TT #2096: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2096
kid51 And that's an Intel mac, correct? 22:32
gbens Mac mini, Intel Core 2 duo
kid51 Thanks. 22:33
22:33 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner 22:34 gbens left
benabik kid51_at_dinner: Comment added. 22:35
Hm. I guess he's at dinner. He'll see it when he gets back. 22:36
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bacek_at_work ~~ 23:34
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soh_cah_toa cotto: ping 23:41
cotto soh_cah_toa, pong 23:43
working on the library paths bug?
soh_cah_toa cotto: i have a question about src/library.c
cotto: beat me too it
cotto: it looks like the . directory is pushed onto "paths" 3 times 23:44
cotto no need to ask to ask
soh_cah_toa cotto: i know i should just delete all 3 occurences of VTABLE_push_string but why is it like that? why push it 3 times?
cotto soh_cah_toa, that's sloppy reuse of a variable 23:45
or distracting, at least
soh_cah_toa cotto: yes, verry
*very
cotto note that paths is a separate PMC each time it gets . pushed
soh_cah_toa cotto: alright, i'll remove it. i just wanted to make sure there was something special about it before i removed those lines 23:46
cotto If you wanted to make several different variables for each kind of path, I wouldn't complain.
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soh_cah_toa cotto: all i really have to do though is remove lines like "entry = CONST_STRING(interp, "./"); VTABLE_push_string(interp, paths, entry);", right? 23:50
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cotto soh_cah_toa, that's about the extent of it, as far as coding goes 23:51
it'll be important to run parrot's tests and see how Rakudo does with that change, though.
soh_cah_toa cotto: right 23:52
cotto I'd also hold off until after 3.3 gets cut. Changing something like that right before the release is asking for it.
soh_cah_toa cotto: okay 23:53
cotto: which tests in particular should i run?
cotto I'd run all of them, but I'd focus on the dynop and dynpmc tests 23:54
or anything having to do with library loading
For bonus points, write a test that a file in the cwd doesn't get loaded.
cotto needs to take off 23:55
happy testing
soh_cah_toa cotto: okay, thanks

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