Parrot 3.4.0 released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
Set by moderator on 17 May 2011.
cotto_work soh_cah_toa: what does your weekend look like? I'd like to read through what you've got so far and I suspect that I'll have some questions or other feedback. 00:00
soh_cah_toa i'll be around. working. i don't usually take off weekends. just keep working right on through 00:01
cotto_work by "working", you mean gsoc? 00:02
soh_cah_toa yes
cotto_work ok
soh_cah_toa everyday the overwhelming size of the parrot code base seems to shrink little by little
it's becoming MUCH more manageable
cotto_work I think sunday will be relatively open for me. I'll probably try to catch you then. 00:03
excellent
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soh_cah_toa sunday will do 00:03
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soh_cah_toa i'll be blogging on saturday as well. i've made saturday my "blog day" 00:04
cotto_work great
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sorear hello, lucian 00:19
I read your post
it sounds like Python's object system is... extremely circular
lucian sorear: yes, very
sorear: it's both a blessing and a curse
sorear to get_attribute an object, you must get_attribute the class (once for __getattribute__, once for the item itself)... also, is __dict__ an attribute? 00:20
lucian a blessing because after you implement the basics, everything is just extra python methods
sorear: yes, __dict__ is an attribute
sorear: of course, there's caching involved
sorear *blink*
let me guess 00:21
__class__ is an attribute too?
lucian sorear: yep
you can change it freely too
sorear: this is how it works, in detail www.cafepy.com/article/python_attri...01s05.html 00:23
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sorear reading... 00:26
lucian sorear: most of the time you don't need to care, but it's nice when you do need it
since you can override pretty much anything
like a DIY object system that comes with very sane defaults :) 00:27
sorear so __class__ and __dict__ do NOT accesss __dict__.__get__ when read? 00:29
lucian sorear: __dict__ is special and cannot be overriden by anything
but almost anything else is fair game to __getattribute__
if you're really evil, you can do some really, well, evil things 00:30
sorear: also, functions have a __get__ method to be called for creating bound methods
essentially closures over self, so they look like methods 00:31
sorear is super() specified using __getattribute__? 00:32
lucian sorear: so for regular, user-defined attributes, what really happens is obj.__dict__['__class__'].__dict__['__getattribute__'](obj, attr_name)
sorear: super() i'm not sure about, afaik it just reads __mro__ 00:33
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lucian __mro__ is a tuple with all classes you could get methods from (class, parent classes, etc.) in order 00:34
sorear: it's less "bad" than it sounds, many "special" attributes are read-only
uh, some. few, in fact :D
sorear: sadly, i don't quite know all details 00:35
most behaviour is defined by the various __special__ attributes
sorear: anyway, it's late and i should sleep. if you're interested in details about python's object system, that book i liked to is awesome 00:42
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sorear yeah, I just read it 00:43
they call it a "book" but it's hardly a 10-minute read
"longish web page" I'd accept
cotto ~~ 00:45
sorear o/ 00:47
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dalek TT #2127 closed by jkeenan++: Adding a winxed snapshot to the repo 01:11
TT #2127: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2127
TT #2036 closed by jkeenan++: rakudo runs tests failed on windows XP
TT #2036: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2036
TT #2117 closed by jkeenan++: t/pmc/nci.t fails when extra nci thunks are disabled
TT #2117: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2117
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whiteknight I have a fun set of commits coming up soon 01:26
as soon as I get through some tests 01:27
actually, may take a little longer. need docs and codestd 01:28
soh_cah_toa give me a hint :) 01:29
whiteknight incoming 01:31
I'll do docs now
dalek rrot: fcdc530 | Whiteknight++ | frontend/pbc_merge/main.c:
some small cleanups for pbc_merge
rrot: c5d26f4 | Whiteknight++ | api.yaml:
old embedding API is deprecated
rrot: fca6dc5 | Whiteknight++ | src/packfile/api.c:
Rename PackFile_read_pbc to Parrot_pf_read_pbc_file. Quick and dirty cleanup for it, try to bring the code up to modern standards. Throws exceptions now instead of returning null
 01:32
rrot: 9dcad35 | Whiteknight++ | / (3 files):
several fixes so we build and pass tests again
rrot: 0704af8 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Break Parrot_pf_read_pbc_file (nee PackFile_read_pbc) up into several smaller functions. consolidate the mmap logic. Remove a goto.
soh_cah_toa i'm especially happy w/ Parrot_pf_read_pbc_file(). i can't stand how PackFile looks 01:33
whiteknight I was working on pbc_merge, then I saw that function and it pissed me off, so I started working on that instead 01:38
soh_cah_toa i unfortunately experience that a lot 01:39
which is something i think i'll talk about at yapc::na 01:41
not a speech. just during the bof or something
whiteknight heh, nice 01:42
soh_cah_toa which you should come to, mister whiteknight :)
whiteknight when is it? 01:44
"mister whiteknight" is my father's name
soh_cah_toa ha! 01:45
june 30 - july 1
whiteknight I'll see about it
soh_cah_toa if you don't, i'm giving you so much bad karma ;)
whiteknight don't give it to me. Give it to my wife 01:46
dalek rrot: 0691760 | Whiteknight++ | src/packfile/api.c:
+docs and codestd
soh_cah_toa ahh...that's how it is then 01:47
kid51 The post-YAPC hackathon is June 30 - July 1 ... but YAPC itself is June 27-29. 01:49
soh_cah_toa oh yeah, there's training or something
cotto there's also some Perl training, but the hackathon costs less 01:50
soh_cah_toa hackathon == money? 01:51
not including the registration?
cotto no. That's why it's cheaper. 01:52
soh_cah_toa ok good
whiteknight: actually, if you're gonna "see about it," i'd do it within the next 2 days. otherwise, according the the website it'll cost you $50 more to get in. yikes 01:54
whiteknight I won't be to yapc::na
soh_cah_toa lame 01:55
whiteknight i might be able to make it to fosscon
superlame
soh_cah_toa oh yeah, i'll be at fosscon
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soh_cah_toa i wish they'd post the list of speakers 01:57
cotto They don't seem real big on organization. 01:58
soh_cah_toa definitely no 01:59
kid51 Perhaps we could persuade a certain Philadelphia-area Parrot developer to speak at that conference ;-) 02:03
cotto One of them just said he can't be there. How many are there? 02:04
dalek rrot: 06042d4 | Whiteknight++ | src/ (2 files):
cleanup and simplify Parrot_api_load_bytecode_file
 02:05
rrot: 92d2dd0 | Whiteknight++ | frontend/pbc_merge/main.c:
when there is a functon which does everything you need but does one thing you don't need, do you (A) rewrite the function, almost verbatim, minus the one part you don't want or (B) refactor things and reuse code. old way was A. My way is B. Don't duplicate code in pbc_merge for loading packfiles
cotto gues is over. be back later this weekend 02:07
soh_cah_toa see ya
whiteknight jeez, pbc_merge is a mess
this is going to take a while to fix up
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whiteknight fuggedaboudit. I'm going to bed 02:09
soh_cah_toa see ya
whiteknight will stare at this some more tomorrow
goodnight
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bubaflub ping NotFound 02:15
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soh_cah_toa cotto: i got a question for you 02:57
dalek rrot: d0863db | mikehh++ | src/packfile/api.c:
fix =item header to reflect changes in calling params
 03:03
rrot: 224fc77 | mikehh++ | src/packfile/api.c:
add cast to get g++ to build
rrot: 8540830 | mikehh++ | frontend/pbc_merge/main.c:
add cast to get g++ to build, update copyright
rrot: 2f910ec | mikehh++ | frontend/pbc_merge/main.c:
run make headerizer to remove unused assert macro
rrot: 213c548 | mikehh++ | include/parrot/packfile.h:
changed file from make headerizer, update copyright
mikehh hmmn. TapTinder does not seem to be running 03:19
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soh_cah_toa mikehh: you're right 03:23
the last commit it shows was on the 7th which is wrong
i think taptinder is NotFound's territory. i'm not 100% sure though 03:24
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mikehh soh_cah_toa: mj51 runs taptinder 03:49
soh_cah_toa mikehh: wow, i was way off 03:50
mikehh I think NotFound has taken over running the gcc compile farm tests from dukeleto 03:51
soh_cah_toa maybe that's what i was thinking of
i'll pm mj51 about it now 03:52
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, make world/make test, fulltest) at 3_4_0-210-g213c548 03:53
Ubuntu 11.04 i386 (g++)
soh_cah_toa msg mj41 mikehh noticed that taptinder doesn't seem to be working. i took a quick look at it and the last commit it shows was 3 days which is wrong. you may want to check it out 03:57
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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mikehh needs sleep - cu 04:07
soh_cah_toa: gettin' mixed up there mj41 is right, must have been thinking of kid51 or somethin' 04:11
soh_cah_toa yeah, it is getting late. by me at least
mikehh it's after 5am for me and I have to do things in a couple of hours :-} 04:12
soh_cah_toa ah! what are you doing writing code at 5am! wow 04:13
mikehh screwed up sleep patterns, anyway must get *some* sleep :-} 04:14
soh_cah_toa yes, you do! see ya :)
it's time i head out as well 04:17
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cotto ~~ 06:21
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cotto allison, ping 06:56
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cotto sleeep 07:47
*sleeps 07:48
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mikehh mj41: ping 07:54
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sorear my gcc is going crazy with warnings on StructView.pmc 08:33
mikehh sorear: I get a bunch of warnings, working on it 08:38
mostly integer/unsigned, but a couple of others 08:39
sorear mine were mostly sign and control-falls-off-end-of-non-void
mikehh sorear: yeah, there used to be a whole bunch more (switch related) 08:41
and by a whole bunch I mean hundreds 08:42
like missing defaults and then every unused enum 08:43
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mikehh sorear: the code is plobsing's baby, and I am not 100% happy playing with it 08:46
sorear if you don't want to, don't 08:47
it's not like they're blocking the build, or even in code I need to use today
mikehh eg some of the added defaults in the switches should really throw an error, but we haven't had any problems (yet) 08:48
sorear: I am working to get rid of all warnings before the release, but trying to be VERY carefull 08:49
dalek rrot: 95f214d | fperrad++ | src/packfile/api.c:
fix error: ISO C90 forbids mixed declarations and code
 08:50
mikehh I really wish we could get away from C90 (at least as far as m$ allows us to) 08:52
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 10:43
mikehh hi whiteknight 10:44
ambs good morning
whiteknight hello mikehh, ambs
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whiteknight on the bright side, I am learning a lot about packfiles 11:10
on the downside, it's still not nearly enough to add annotations to pbc_merge 11:11
actually, that may not be true 11:13
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sorear "I am learning a lot about packfiles" 11:42
this is NOT a bright side 11:43
it is one of those things man was not meant to know
whiteknight I've put off working with this subsystem for far too long 11:53
the bus number there is too low
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whiteknight this pbc_merge thing is going to take a little bit more thought 12:45
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mikehh been looking at structview.pmc warnings - it is very difficult to locate them (the macros seem to mess up line numbers) 13:17
sorear I seem vaguely to recall that pmc2c doesn't generate #line by default, but it can be forced 13:31
ISTR I was working on blizkost and complaining about the bad line numbers, and someone here said it was like the Solaris 8 cc or something that couldn't cope 13:32
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whiteknight mikehh: configure with --no-line-directives 13:41
mikehh whiteknight: ah - hadn't thought of that :-} 13:43
got to go out for a bit - will do that when I get back 13:44
dalek rrot: b3beea1 | Whiteknight++ | frontend/pbc_merge/main.c:
First stab at making pbc_merge handle annotations
 13:59
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whiteknight I wish headerizer didn't touch files that didn't need to be modified 14:35
and therefore would cause files to be unnecessarily rebuilt
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dalek rrot: 81c565a | Whiteknight++ | frontend/pbc_merge/main.c:
Comment out my garbage code, because it doesn't work yet
 14:37
whiteknight msg plobsing re (TT #2131) Can you take a look at github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b3beea1f60 and subsequent commits? I feel like I am on the right path, but am seeing extremely bad behavior 14:38
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
whiteknight blah 14:39
NotFound: ping
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Coke_ aloha, seen rohit_nsit08? 14:46
aloha Coke_: rohit_nsit08 was last seen in #parrot 21 hours 6 mins ago saying "hello #parrot".
whiteknight Coke_: I didn't meet with him yesterday, but my availability was lower than expected 14:49
I dont know if he was around or not
Coke_ he was here, briefly.
I'm pinging him in an email now, will cc you.
my availabilty today is leaning towards the evening (which is tomorrow morning for him)
whiteknight my availability today is the same (later this eveing) 14:51
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whiteknight I hope he gets his internet issues sorted out 14:52
Coke_ whiteknight: done. 14:56
;hurm. says draft... wtf.
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dukeleto ~~ 15:47
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dukeleto is impressed by whiteknight.github.com/Rosella/index.html 15:55
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cotto ~~ 17:05
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nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Are these valid corrections to eliminate build warnings?" (39 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/51399 17:22
kid51 msg mikehh Please take a look at nopaste.snit.ch/51399. Thanks. 17:23
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "frontend/pbc_merge/main.c: Errors and build failure during all-g++ build on linux/i386" (6 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/51401 17:28
kid51 That was at: commit 81c565af6 17:30
dukeleto kid51: might want to update. whiteknight commented out that code in a later commit 17:31
kid51 Backing out my local changes to double-check
I've said 'git pull' a couple of times since.
mj41 mikehh: pong
cotto build looks fine to me 17:33
ttbot Parrot b3beea1f i386-linux-thread-multi make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/18757
kid51 ttbot: Yes, that next-to-most-recent commit had problems 17:34
nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Build failures onn g++ build" (714 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/51402 17:40
kid51 My local changes were not source of problem.
dukeleto kid51: did you get access to the gcc build farm yet? 17:42
kid51 No. I'm not seeking it.
dukeleto kid51: it would allow you to run tests at least 10x faster. Just sayin'. 17:43
kid51 It's just more of the same stuff I'm already doing in the Parrot project.
dukeleto kid51: huh? 17:44
kid51 It's just more testing. It doesn't extend my horizons at all. 17:45
dukeleto kid51: how do you want to extend your horizons? 17:46
kid51: i was thinking that you could spend less time waiting for test runs, which would give you more free time to do other stuff 17:47
kid51: you looking for other stuff to do?
kid51 The time I spend waiting for test runs on linux/i386 does not bother me; only the time spent on darwin/ppc does. But i doubt the compile farm has that platform available. 17:48
dukeleto kid51: they are setting up a darwin machine as we speak
kid51: the compile farm has about 5 OS's now and a ridiculous number of platforms
kid51 PPC? Intel?
dukeleto kid51: ppc 17:49
kid51: i think
Darwin gcc48 10.0.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.0.0: Fri Jul 31 22:47:34 17:50
kid51: yes, gcc48 is a ppc darwin
kid51: it is a mac mini : www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_...specs.html
kid51: we need fresh eyes on the M0 spec. We would be gracious if you read through it and gave feedback on what is not clearly explained, or questions that arise 17:51
kid51: how do you want to extend your horizons? What interests you? 17:52
kid51 Branch? Link? Specific files?
for M0, that is.
dukeleto kid51: master does seem to be broken 17:54
kid51 "all gcc" builds and tests fine; "all g++" fails to build, as pasted above 17:55
I guess whiteknight will have to look at that. He probably tested on one but not the other.
If he doesn't return today, we may have to back out some commits. 17:56
cotto kid51, github.com/parrot/parrot/blob/m0-s...d32_m0.pod 18:03
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cotto m0-spec branch if you prefer 18:04
(that file is the only change from master)
kid51 cotto: Thanks.
afk
cotto kid51, thanks for the eyeballs 18:06
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dukeleto msg whiteknight can I buy you a copy of g++ ? ;) 18:07
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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dukeleto attempts to fix the g++ build. Beware. 18:09
dukeleto wishes firefox would crash less often 18:10
does ff4 behave any better than 3.x?
i think i fixed it, letting the build finish 18:11
cotto dukeleto, on my windows box I'm somewhat happier with ff4 than 3.5. On my linux machine, both run fine with only very occasional crashes. 18:13
dalek rrot: 1b64660 | dukeleto++ | frontend/pbc_merge/main.c:
Remove unused variable definition in pbc_merge that breaks the g++ build
 18:14
dukeleto cotto: i am sure it is the flash plugins.
please test if that commit fixes master on g++ for others 18:15
cotto dukeleto, quite possibly. I have them blocked by default on any browser where I want a customized configuration.
dukeleto cotto: so do i. But github has flash on it 18:17
cotto: and a few stupid banks and whatnot
cotto dukeleto, sure, but it's easy to unblock on a case-by-case basis with flashblock
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dalek rdinal: | unknown++ | unknown:
(no commit message)
 19:35
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benabik ...? 19:36
dalek: You seem confused.
tadzik hrm
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mikehh benabik: you insulted dalek and (s)he left in disgust :-} 19:45
benabik mikehh: I just wanted to help! 19:46
mikehh benabik: you gatta be real carefull with these bots...
cotto Bots have feelings too. 19:47
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soh_cah_toa ~~ 20:20
tadzik wave-wave
soh_cah_toa o/ 20:21
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cotto hio soh_cah_toa 20:23
soh_cah_toa cotto: hey 20:24
cotto you had a question last night, didn't you?
soh_cah_toa oh yeah
dalek rrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: b3e0581 | soh_cah_toa++ | frontend/hbdb/main.c:
Moved call to Parrot_api_set_executable_name()
soh_cah_toa cotto: i've noticed a lot of calls to Parrot_ex_throw_from_c_args(). how do i catch an exception thrown by this function? obviously, there's no try/catch statements in c so i'm out of ideas
rrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: 7bdd530 | soh_cah_toa++ | / (3 files):
Defined Parrot_api_hbdb_init()
cotto soh_cah_toa, you don't. PIR or HLL code has to catch it. 20:26
rrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: bb35650 | soh_cah_toa++ | / (2 files):
Added hbdb_t structure I forgot earlier
rrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: cef9cac | soh_cah_toa++ | frontend/hbdb/main.c:
58a5126 | soh_cah_toa++ | src/hbdb.c:
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cotto actually, that's not true 20:29
take a look at Parrot_api_get_result
soh_cah_toa looks
cotto in src/embed/api.c
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soh_cah_toa oh, you mean interp->final_exception? 20:30
cotto That depends on what kind of code you're writing. 20:31
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soh_cah_toa how so? 20:32
cotto if it's internal, you can poke into members of the interp struct. You're writing code against the embedding API, you shouldn't. 20:33
soh_cah_toa ok. so in the embedding api when i check the return value of Parrot_api_*, if it's 0 that means it threw an exception? 20:34
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cotto looking at it now 20:38
not necessarily an exception, but some kind of error 20:39
look at the parrot frontend, which whiteknight wrote, for examples
soh_cah_toa ok. b/c i very rarely see a return statement in the api functions yet they still return a Parrot_Int somehow 20:41
cotto EMBED_API_CALLOUT in src/embed/embed_private.h does the returning
soh_cah_toa ah, i see 20:42
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soh_cah_toa something is seriously wrong w/ dalek today. it's really slow and missed about 2-3 of my commits. it keeps signing on/off too 20:46
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rrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: 503cce8 | soh_cah_toa++ | / (5 files):
Defined Parrot_api_hbdb_run_code()
 21:03
cotto soh_cah_toa, it's helpful if your commit message says why you're making a particular change. 21:05
soh_cah_toa ok. i've been trying to just keep them nice and short
cotto soh_cah_toa, longer is better, as long as it doesn't turn into a blog post 21:07
soh_cah_toa sure
plobsing commit messages are somewhat like comments. it is more useful to know why something is done than know what is done (you can look at the code for that)
cotto +1 21:08
soh_cah_toa ok
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soh_cah_toa cotto: if you could maybe take a look...i'm getting an error "PMC has no member named hbdb" yet i know it does. i think it may be b/c "interp" is not a pointer but i don't think it can be b/c most api functions take a non-pointer Parrot_PMC's 21:10
it's referring to line 127 in frontend/hbdb/main.c 21:11
cotto soh_cah_toa, sure 21:12
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cotto soh_cah_toa, the problem comes from the difference between the Parrot_Interp struct and the ParrotInterpreter PMC. You have a PMC and need to use something like the PMC_interp macro in src/pmc/parrotinterpreter.pmc to get the actual interp struct. 21:20
soh_cah_toa so the interp in frontend/hbdb/main.c is a ParrotInterpreter? 21:22
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cotto if it's a PMC, that's likely to be the type of PMC it is 21:24
verified 21:25
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soh_cah_toa not to change the subject but that reminds me...i've always been annoyed that i can never tell the type of a Parrot_PMC or PMC *. is there some kinda "type" attribute for all pmc's so i can do foo.type()? 21:26
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cotto soh_cah_toa, in what context? C code, PIR/nqp, gdb, other? 21:28
soh_cah_toa c code
plobsing msg whiteknight can you be more specific about the "bad behaviour"? commenting specifically on 81c565a, using PackFile_Annotations_add_entry is indeed the way to go; you've got 2 ++'s of the same variable in 1 expression => undefined behaviour.
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
cotto soh_cah_toa, VTABLE_name (returns a string) or VTABLE_type (returns an INTVAL that matches the enum_class_X enum's values in include/parrot/core_pmcs.h) 21:31
er, VTABLE_name returns a STRING*
to be more specific
soh_cah_toa ok, great
but those can only be called from "core code", right? i don't think i can call vtable function directly in the api 21:33
cotto I don't think so. If you need something that the api doesn't provide, there's a good chance you can add it. 21:37
soh_cah_toa right, ok
cotto Is there a use case you have in mind or are you just trying to get everything straight? 21:38
soh_cah_toa just curious. i just like to know what types i'm working w/
cotto wfm
soh_cah_toa how where you able to call PMC_interp? is there a header i need? i'm getting undefined reference errors here 21:39
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cotto soh_cah_toa, it's only defined in parrotinerpreter.pmc. you'll have to create something similar 21:45
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soh_cah_toa so i'd do something like PMC_interp(interp)->hbdb where "interp" is a Parrot_PMC? is that how it's used? 21:50
well, i'd write my own PMC_interp, that is
cotto yes 21:55
I'm taking off soon. Do you have any other questions or blockers? 21:56
soh_cah_toa not at the moment. if that works, i should be good to go 21:57
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cotto great 21:59
I'm out 22:04
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dalek rrot-gmp: aa6b931 | bubaflub++ | / (3 files):
handle strings now

stole some code from plobsing++ also there is basic usage of init and set though this is broken at the moment		 22:08
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dalek rrot: f2c7baf | pmichaud++ | compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir:
[pct]: 'cconst' should be 'cclass' (there is no 'cconst.pasm').
 22:13
rrot: 197f878 | pmichaud++ | compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir:
[pct]: Add a '!macro_const' type to PAST::Val to allow any value to be used as a pasm constant. (Note that the caller is responsible for providing any .include statements needed in this case.)
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dalek rrot: 9ebd845 | pmichaud++ | compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir:
[pct]: Improve PAST::Val const ability to remain constants in PIR.
 23:38
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