Trac maintenance Wed Aug 24 17:00 UTC | Parrot 3.7.0 "Wanda" | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC
Set by moderator on 23 August 2011.
00:20 ttbot joined 00:21 logie joined
Coke yawns. 00:21
00:24 whiteknight joined
whiteknight ubuntu-- 00:26
Actually, I don't know if the bug is in gnome, or unity, or somewhere else entirely. But a locked up computer is annoying 00:28
cotto not what you hope will happen 00:44
kid51 cotto: What does the fact that that file was just added to master have to do with the fact that it's failing on two OSes? 00:47
cotto kid51, It wasn't failing before because it wasn't there. (also, it didn't get enough attention in its branch and neither tadzik nor I remembered to test on non-linux platforms before it got merged) 00:49
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kid51 Well, the last comment about this PMC in TT #2034 was that "the current implementation in tewk/select has room for improvement." -- cotto 00:51
With an evaluation like that, why would that branch get heavily tested? 00:52
cotto Yes. It's being merged and marked as experimental (which needs to be done) so that Rakudo can play with it and decide what a good interface looks like.
kid51 Well, that can you please TODO the failing tests.
?
(or, better still, fix them)?
cotto delegates
whiteknight procrastinates 00:54
kid51 Otherwise, this seems to confirm what I said in my YAPC talk, namely, "Parrot is a virtual machine aimed at all dynamic programming languages -- provided they run on the Linux operating system." ;-)
cotto msg tadzik Could you make sure that Select gets marked as experimental. Since there's already a ticket, an entry in api.yaml is all that's needed.
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
cotto We only care about platforms with sane implementations of select(). ;) 00:55
I'm not sure why darwin would splode, but my gut tells me it'll be a simple fix.
whiteknight kid51: Parrot is a realistic project. Our level of support for a platform is proportional to the number of hackers we have using it 00:57
I don't, and don't pretend to support software I don't use and don't test 00:58
kid51 cotto: Didn't it break a Win32 build this afternoon as well?
cotto msg tadzik If Select doesn't get fixed on window soon-ish, can you mark the test as TODO for that platform?
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
cotto kid51, win32 remains broken from when it was merged 00:59
kid51 Coke: I see what you mean in trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2185#comment:8 01:05
cotto I added a way to address those issues. 01:07
cotto goes afk
kid51 cotto++.
I suspect what happened was: (1) Someone requested creation of a 'make' target that would guarantee a release was good; (2) I whipped something together and tried it out on Linux and Darwin; (3) no one subsequently attempted to do a release on Win32 until Coke did this month. 01:08
dukeleto tcurtis: gsoc evaluation? 01:10
Coke oh, I didn't even start on win32. I tried to do it on /darwin/, and that faild.
NotFound++ #2184 01:11
dukeleto msg soh_cah_toa please do your gsoc eval
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
dukeleto msg tcurtis please do your gsoc eval 01:12
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
dukeleto Coke: want to do your gsoc eval? I am getting spammed about you not having it done yet :)
Coke: www.google-melange.com/gsoc/eval/me...it08/12001 01:13
msg allison please fill out the final gsoc eval: www.google-melange.com/gsoc/eval/me...1900/12001 01:14
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
dukeleto msg darbelo please fill out the gsoc eval www.google-melange.com/gsoc/eval/me...rtis/15001
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
tcurtis dukeleto: will do. 01:18
dukeleto tcurtis: thanks
tcurtis (meaning am about to start doing it now)
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dalek rrot/tt_2185: a38ef37 | jkeenan++ | tools/release/releasecheck.pl:
Use Archive::Tar rather than Unix 'tar', for better portability. cotto++; coke++.
 01:30
rrot/tt_2185: 5009472 | jkeenan++ | tools/release/releasecheck.pl:
Look up version of 'make' to use in Parrot::Config.
 01:44
kid51 Ramereth of OSU OSL reports that Trac maintenance was performed today. Hence, reverting topic. 02:07
moderator Parrot 3.7.0 "Wanda" | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC 02:07
Coke dukeleto: I have 1.5 more days! 02:08
tcurtis submitted his final evaluation. 02:09
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kid51 Latest code in tt_2185 branch enables successful 'make release_check' on Linux and Darwin. 02:40
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benabik is pleased that he didn't have to be reminded to do his evaluation. 04:20
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dalek nxed: 1adfc7c | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
constant propagation in builtins cast to int and cast to string
 08:23
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tadzik msg cotto_work is there an example of test switched off for Win32? 08:47
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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dalek nxed: e4ff133 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
don't box values in array and hash expressions
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not_gerd hello, #parrot 11:13
src/dynpmc/README.pod needs fixing - there's no file called dynpmc.in anywhere in my Parrot checkout... 11:21
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dalek kudo/nom: d31eef8 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
add a few missing stashes in BOOTSTRAP

This should fix the first compilation problem of List::Utils.
There are still a lot missing, but I get rather strange compilation errors when I trie to add them all at once, so a few at a time instead		 11:47
nxed: 5144143 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
set size in array expr initialization instead of pushing values
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:07
tadzik good morning whiteknight
whiteknight hello tadzik 12:08
tadzik cotto: seems that Select is already marked as experimental in api.yaml
whiteknight msg soh_cah_toa can you please, pretty please with cherries on top, fill out your final GSoC evaluation 12:14
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
whiteknight ping Coke
atrodo =~ 12:16
whiteknight good morning atrodo
dalek kudo/nom: 88d8014 | tadzik++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
Warn about a bare '=begin' directive
 12:27
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dalek nxed: b999b42 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
minor cleanups and nano-optimizations
 12:55
cotto tadzik, perfect 12:58
tadzik, did you figure out how to skip a test on win32? 12:59
tadzik cotto: wasn't thinking about that much, tbh 13:00
cotto tadzik, skip 'busted on win32' => 2 if $^O eq 'MSWin32' || $^O eq 'msys'; 13:01
tadzik cotto: that's pir
what's $^O in pir?
cotto config['osname'] 13:02
tadzik ok, I see some if $S0 == 'MSWin32' goto tt661_todo in t/
cotto what that test does would work too 13:03
tadzik cotto: gist.github.com/1170608 how does that look? 13:07
wait, it doesn't work for me either 13:09
cotto tadzik, if you don't have access to a windows box, you can just mess with the code to force a test to fail. 13:11
tadzik cotto: how would that help? 13:16
cotto tadzik, it'd show you that the TODO code is doing what you expect 13:18
I'm not suggesting you push such code.
tadzik hmm 13:19
I just added osname = 'MSWin32 to my test 13:20
not_gerd does the select code even compile on windows?
I had to revert merging master into my msys branch because it broke the build
tadzik eww 13:21
cotto not_gerd, nope
tadzik so todoing tests wouldn't help much
cotto tadzik, you should probably #ifdef that code away so the code builds on windows
tadzik can anyone give me a windows shell so I can fiddle with it? 13:22
cotto tadzik, they'll still need to be todo'd. Presumably we'll get into a state where the Select PMC builds but doesn't do anything useful on windows.
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not_gerd btw (alreade mentioned this when I joined): src/dynpmc/README.pod needs fixing - there's no file called dynpmc.in anywhere in my Parrot checkout... 13:23
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not_gerd (tried to disable the select dynpmc, but found no easy way to do it...) 13:23
tadzik I have a feeling that todo() acts as skip() in Parrot 13:24
okay, I got it to a state when it doesn't run the tests on windows, pushing. Feel free to make it better 13:25
dalek rrot: ea7b2b6 | tadzik++ | t/dynpmc/select.t:
Skip select tests on Win32 and msys
 13:26
cotto not_gerd, fixing now 13:27
not_gerd++ 13:29
dalek rrot: 2b8c29e | cotto++ | src/dynpmc/README.pod:
update dynpmc readme now that we're using makefile fragments
 13:35
ttbot Parrot ea7b2b65 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/45490 13:39
whiteknight tadzik: in Test::More for Parrot, todo() acts like ok(), but doesn't fail if it's wrong 13:41
not_gerd: dynpmc.in is probably src/dynpmc/Rules.in, or something like that 13:51
ttbot Parrot 2b8c29ef MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/45507 13:52
not_gerd whiteknight: cotto++ already fixed the README - but disabling a dynpmc is more involved than just removing a single line, as the old README seemed to imply 14:00
I'm happy to just revert the commits and wait for someone else to fix the windows build ;) 14:01
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whiteknight okay 14:15
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dalek rrot/whiteknight/kill_threads: 9f2107b | cotto++ | / (6 files):
delete more files, update headers and makefile template

build is now less extravagantly broken		 15:33
whiteknight cotto: Ha! I did almost that same thing on the train this morning, and haven't pushed it
great minds hate threading alike 15:34
cotto whiteknight, that's the easy part though. 15:37
and fun
whiteknight I'm planning to deal with this in fits and spurts, since it isn't high priority 15:39
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dukeleto ~~ 16:08
davidfetter hai dukeleto
dukeleto davidfetter: wazzup, stranger
benabik o/
davidfetter $son was born saturday 16:09
he and mom are healthy, sleeping atm.
davidfetter is grateful to have a lot of flexibility around working from home
dukeleto davidfetter: congrats! 16:13
moritz davidfetter: congratulations! 16:14
davidfetter thanks :) 16:17
moritz davidfetter: is that your first child?
davidfetter moritz, yep. bris is saturday :) 16:18
tadzik davidfetter: wow, congrats :)
davidfetter he may not be as thrilled about this ;)
dukeleto davidfetter: mazel tov
davidfetter toda :)
moritz exciting times ahead :-) 16:19
(and probably behind too :-)
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cotto davidfetter, congrats! 16:31
davidfetter cotto, thanks :) 16:41
moritz, yeah, we kinda got blind-sided friday morning. i was about to head out the door when my wife said 5 words that changed my day completely 16:42
"I think my water broke."
moritz "get into the car, I'll drive you to the hospital"?
davidfetter well, she phoned them 1st to let them know we were coming, and we both packed stuff 16:43
davidfetter grateful not to be the freak-out type 16:44
whiteknight my wife waited until I drove 45 minutes to work before calling to tell me to turn around 16:51
congratulations on the new kid 16:56
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benabik Been talking on #perl6… die_s and die_p both set the exception as resumable. die_ii doesn't though. Is that on purpose? 17:01
not_gerd any ideas why t/profiling/profiling.t would fail completely (see gist.github.com/1171152 ) 17:03
?
whiteknight benabik: I'm sure there's no reason. I suspect die_i can be changed to become resumable 17:06
benabik whiteknight: Yay. Now I get to figure out how to change an opcode. 17:10
cotto not_gerd, I'm heading out the door, but I wrote that test. I'll take a look later today. 17:12
tadzik seen alester 17:15
aloha alester was last seen in #perl6 3 days 2 hours ago joining the channel.
whiteknight benabik: it's not as hard as it sounds
17:16 Eclesia joined
Eclesia hi 17:16
whiteknight hello Eclesia
benabik whiteknight: probably not. Is it possible to have a static function inside an op file? The three die opcodes now share 90% of their code.
whiteknight benabik: just put in whatever logic you want there, we can refactor them out later 17:17
we would probably put in a new function in src/exception.c to hold shared logic for that
tadzik github++ 17:18
pull request for ack was like... 3 mouse clicks? 17:19
and 4 characters to type
(in an edited file)
benabik whiteknight: Edit op, `make bootstrap-ops`, test, commit? 17:20
whiteknight yessir 17:22
tadzik: What kind of message can you possible type with only four characters?
"pull", "doit", or "lol?"
tadzik whiteknight: okay, I didn't count the commit message :) 17:23
whiteknight :)
even "plzkthx" is more than 4 characters, and that's like the minimum possible polite message 17:24
tadzik but github.com/petdance/ack/pull/183 was literally "Fork and edit this file", " pm6", "request file changes"
whiteknight :)
tadzik pullpl0x 17:25
cotto_work ~~ 17:31
whiteknight cotto_work: I don't think we ever talked about your magical new ideas yesterday 17:34
cotto_work whiteknight: they still need thinking on. 17:35
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bubaflub Eclesia: got some time to debug Parrot-GMP? 17:48
Eclesia bubaflub: sure, just ask me what you want to try 17:49
bubaflub can you tell me what `parrot_config cc_shared` outputs?
Eclesia bubaflub: -fPIC 17:50
bubaflub Eclesia: perfect. i'm putting a new commit to Parrot-GMP and lemme know if it fixes building for ya
dalek rrot-gmp: d84acae | bubaflub++ | setup.winxed:
attempted fix for building, Eclesia++
Eclesia bubaflub: nearly good, one test fail 17:52
bubaflub Eclesia: doh. which one?
Eclesia bubaflub: t/integer/powm.t
bubaflub Eclesia: could you run `winxed t/integer/powm.t` to see which test fails? 17:53
nopaste "Eclesia" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "t/integer/powm.t" (16 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/74516 17:54
Eclesia bubaflub: here
bubaflub hmmm, ok. Eclesia, what version of GMP do you have? 17:57
Eclesia checking
bubaflub: 4.3.2 17:58
bubaflub Eclesia: ok, that shouldn't be a problem.
benabik Huh. My quick test of select on OS X got every fd back. This includes the read-only as ready for write and the write-only as ready for read. And both for error. 17:59
bubaflub Eclesia: figured it out - mpz_powm_sec was added in 5.0 18:02
cotto_work benabik: how exciting. I guess that means you can write to a read-only handle on OS X.
bubaflub Eclesia: fixing this would require something a bit more invasive - i'll have to think about how to handle this 18:05
benabik cotto_work: They both come back for read and write on Linux too. :-P
(But not error, which is what's goofing up select.t on OS X.
Eclesia bubaflub: if I may have a suggestion : ship your project with your own gmp version
bubaflub Eclesia: i've created a github issue to track this: github.com/bubaflub/parrot-gmp/issues/23 18:08
cotto_work benabik: fascinating. select must be broken on Linux and OSX. 18:09
;)
benabik C Question: How do you get the error from a file descriptor (int, not FILE *)? 18:16
bubaflub Eclesia: i'd say that should work for you now - just don't try to use mpz_powm_sec :-) 18:17
Eclesia bubaflub++ 18:18
PerlJam benabik: errno 18:21
benabik: or ... maybe I don't understand what you're asking.
benabik: usually those routines that use fds will use -1 to indicate an error and that error can be found in errno. 18:22
benabik PerlJam: To be more precise, select() tells me that there's an error on a fd, how do I found how what it is? Just try reading?
PerlJam oh 18:23
Eclesia bubaflub: in your examples could you add another winxed sample, showing integer and decimal types of different bit size ? 18:24
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PerlJam benabik: It's been a long while since I've used select from C, so I'd troll the select(2) man page for starters and see where it leads you. 18:26
benabik Results of me testing select(): gist.github.com/1171339
PerlJam maybe read Stevens 18:27
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NotFound benabik: The files are open? 18:46
benabik NotFound: Yes. 18:47
If anyone wants to run my test on *BSD, that might be useful… gist.github.com/1171339 18:54
i'm guessing we'll just have to todo that test in select.t
Hm. Resuming from die doesn't seem very useful. It seems to resume at the die opcode. 18:58
Nevermind. something else was odd. 19:03
exit 0 doesn't seem to actually exit. strange 19:05
Oh. it throws a resumable exit exception. 19:07
Nevermine. 19:08
dalek kudo/alpha: fd0a184 | (Martin Berends)++ | / (3 files):
[alpha] update README with Subversion->Github moves, tweak test_summary.pl
 19:10
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dalek rrot: 431c51a | benabik++ | src/ops/core (2 files):
Make all versions of die opcode resumable

die_s and die_p both were resumable, but die_i_i wasn't. Finding no particular reason that should be the case, I made them consistent. The three opcodes now share a lot of code. Perhaps a common function should be factored out?		 19:16
benabik Hm. forgot to mention in commit that mls++ noticed that on #perl6
cotto_work benabik++ 19:17
NotFound I'd like better to have all non resumable. This is not Drago Ball, "die" must mea something ;) 19:20
benabik NotFound: exit is resumable.
pmichaud NotFound: you don't believe in life after death? ;-) 19:21
(I vote that "die" remain resumable, fwiw. Parrot shouldn't be enforcing otherwise.)
NotFound pmichaud: maybe, but not in resuming the previous life ;)
benabik NotFound: CPR? Heart stopping used to mean dead.
whiteknight it won't if there is an exit exception handler setup 19:22
oh, wow, wrong part of the conversation
benabik And `die .EXCEPT_doomed, 0` will _exit instead of throwing an exception.
NotFound pmichaud: Being resumable enforces me to worry about what code can be placed after die. 19:23
whiteknight benabik: exits are exceptions, they can be caught and dealt with
benabik whiteknight: Yeah, I didn't expect that. Realized it fairly soon though.
whiteknight the big problem here is that "die" is neither "throw"
nor "exit
keyboard-- 19:24
tadzik I always have this problem with '
I keep presing Enter instead
cotto_work I just take "enter" off my keyboards. I never use it.
tadzik ^O?
NotFound You can caught what you want, no problem with that, is your business. But is my business if my code gets unexpectedly resumed. 19:25
benabik I do find it somewhat odd that EXCEPT_doomed only _exits on the die_i_i version.
whiteknight I think we need to seriously look at all these opcodes and start thinning the herd 19:26
benabik Oh, that' the only version that can set it. Nevermind.
cotto_work </troll>
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whiteknight If I had my way, we would have two of these opcodes: throw_p and exit_i 19:26
everything else is just unnecessary sugar that papers over the kind of flexibility users want, but don't want to deal with 19:27
benabik Yeah, die is somewhat misnamed. It's more throw_with_message 19:28
ttbot Parrot 431c51af MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/45562
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NotFound We don't need exit I don't think any program can have speed issues with exit, os have that much of them that code size matters. 19:28
whiteknight it's a convenience added because it's perl-like, but it doesn't really help us 19:29
it's trivial for NQP to provide a die builtin that wraps around throw_p
same with winxed
NotFound What I'd like to have is non-resumable throw. 19:30
whiteknight Exceptions have an attribute that says whether it's resumable or not, right? 19:31
benabik whiteknight: Which is set by the throw op.
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benabik I wonder what throw exception, NULL does. 19:31
whiteknight hmm.. Magic is less than optimal 19:32
throw_p should take an exception and throw it as-is, without modifications.
benabik It is somewhat required… resuming requires creating the continuation at the same time as the throw.
whiteknight the user should be able to set up a resume continuation manually if it's needed
benabik how? 19:33
NotFound set_label, for example
whiteknight $P0 = new 'Exception' $P1 = new 'Continuation' $P0["resume"] = $P1 set_label $P1 after_throw throw $P1 after_throw: 19:34
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whiteknight that's what the current opcodes are doing, basically 19:34
for that matter, we should be able to resume to any point we want to, not just to the place after the throw 19:35
we could resume to a finally{} block, for instance
benabik You can, with throw_p_p
whiteknight benabik: but that misses the point. You don't add a bunch of unwanted magic to an op, then add a bunch more ops to work around people not wanting magic
give users the tools to do what they want, and don't force them to work around your own mistakes
if parrot has to provide more ops, because the ops it already provides don't do what people need, fix the ones you already have 19:36
pmichaud I always think of it in reverse.
whiteknight pmichaud: how?
pmichaud You add an op that does no magic, then add versions of the op that do magic if there's a lot of use/demand for them.
whiteknight okay, that's fine too, but the starting point is an op with no magic 19:37
benabik I think throw_cc (which is basically what throw does now) is useful enough to be an op.
whiteknight right now we have many ops, all with magic, and still users aren't happy with the selection
pmichaud perhaps... but claiming that the no-magic version is automatically a "workaround" kinda stretches things a bit.
whiteknight the no-magic version is what we should ahve, everything else should go 19:38
pmichaud if we start with a no-magic version and add a magic one, or start with a magic version and add a no-magic one, the outcome is the same.
whiteknight or, at least be carefully reconsidered
pmichaud I think I've hardly ever used the no-magic version. Removing the magic one would be a pain for me.
NotFound throw ex, null works? Never tought of that.
benabik NotFound: It might? 19:40
NotFound: And if it doesn't, we should probably fix it so it doesn.
*does
whiteknight I count die_s, die_p, die_i_i, throw_p, throw_p_p, and exit_i. There are not many semantic differences between them, especially if die is resumable.
die_i_i seems only really useful as a replacement for exit_i, because almost all other exceptions are going to want a message or more data than just an integer 19:41
NotFound Anyway, i think is a waste to set a register to null as the only way to say "I don't want to be resumed"
whiteknight die_s could easily be renamed throw_s for clarity
if die_i_i is being used for control flow, or things where diagnostics aren't wanted, it shouldn't be called "die" 19:42
benabik Most of the die ops are actually throw. 19:43
pmichaud decides to leave the deck-chair-rearranging-party for a while.
benabik Only exception is `die .EXCEPT_doomed, $I0`, which calls _exit… Which is odd.
NotFound .EXCEPT_doomed usage should be under security arena control. 19:44
whiteknight not EXCEPT_exit?
benabik whiteknight: No, EXECEPT_exit just throws an exit exception, just like exit_i
whiteknight so EXCEPT_exit is less certain about exiting than EXCEPT_doomed? 19:45
benabik Yes.
whiteknight bleh
NotFound exit_i and die_s are not needed at all. They are just a convenience to write PIR by hand, something that we don't want no more.
benabik But, AFAICT, only if EXECPT_doomed is passed to die_i_i, not throw.
whiteknight NotFound++ 19:46
I agree 100%
pmichaud I disagree 100%.
benabik We could move the convenience ops to a dynop.
pmichaud right now I can write pir::die('message') and it works. You're telling me that instead I'll have to write pir::throw(pir::new('Exception'), pir::new('Continuation')) and a bunch of other stuff just to throw a simple exception. 19:47
not to mention that "pir::new('Continuation')" is itself problematic unless we also start tossing labels into NQP.
granted, me may end up having to do this anyway for other reasons... but it's not the case that only PIR writers use the single-argument die/throw. 19:48
I'm outta here.
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whiteknight I don't think we would need the new Continuation bit by default. I like the idea of the throwcc op that benabik presented 19:48
it is a common case
NotFound I think the basic variants of throw should be: with and without automatic continuation. 19:49
And if you want a continuation different of the automatic one, set it in the exception before throwing, 19:50
whiteknight I don't like the idea of die_s. throwing strings got perl5 into a lot of trouble, and us pretending to do that only obscures things
tadzik +1 19:51
NotFound If you want a die_s equivalent, you just need to create a exception and set the message, anyway.
whiteknight not that it really matters, of course. It would take us months to deprecate and remove any of these 19:54
I wish we could go back in time and stop some of these lousy decisions from being made in the first place 19:55
NotFound Not a big priority, but I'd like to have the non autoresumable throw variant.
whiteknight NotFound: I guess for now you are stuck with throw_p_p 19:56
NotFound whiteknight: too much waste 19:58
whiteknight too much waste? Exceptions are uncommon in flow control 19:59
or they should be
in winxed they certainly are
NotFound whiteknight: waste of opcodes and registers
whiteknight NotFound: It's a solution now, until we come up with a better idea 20:00
NotFound I'll better use: throw ex | die .EXCEPT_doomed, 1 20:01
whiteknight that's the same number of opcodes
NotFound But I don't need to allocate a register.
whiteknight ok
then yes, that might be the best.
for now 20:02
NotFound Unfortunately, the best right now is: don't care, let's obscure bugs appears when someone mistakenly resume.
whiteknight let's deprecate die_i_i, and add in a new throw_noresume_p 20:07
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whiteknight benabik: the die opcodes were all unresumable until you changed them? 20:09
benabik whiteknight: die_s and die_p were resumable. die_i_i wasn't.
NotFound I need to think about a way to specify a resumable throw in winxed, then... I'll do if someone provides me a realistic use case ;)
whiteknight that seems extremely strange to me. What does the word "die" mean, if it's not something more final than "throw"? 20:10
I mean, what differentiates a die from a throw? Anything? Nothing?
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benabik Nothing. 20:10
whiteknight that bugs me 20:11
NotFound Shortness, and maybe familiarity for perl users.
At the times of hand-written pasm, shortness may have be very valuable ;) 20:12
whiteknight maybe, but it seems a hell of a lot like a solution to the wrong problem
I would be much less unhappy with a throw_s and a throw_i_i opcode than I am with the same exact things named "die" 20:13
NotFound Probably was just a case a "we'll fix the design later"
whiteknight bleh
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Tene whiteknight: +1 20:13
NotFound I did that in winxed: throw "message"; 20:14
whiteknight it would be one thing if die actually died, like an exception that had higher-than-normal severity and no resume. That would be fine too
but if it's just throw and it doesnt lead to the death of the process, it's mis-named
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tcurtis ~~ 21:15
cotto_work seen kid51 21:40
aloha kid51 was last seen in #parrot 18 hours 59 mins ago saying "Latest code in tt_2185 branch enables successful 'make release_check' on Linux and Darwin.".
dalek rrot/tt_2185: 403bd32 | cotto++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
use $(MAKE) for relcheck
 21:44
rrot/tt_2185: 97618e1 | cotto++ | tools/release/releasecheck.pl:
portably tell nmake to be quiet
 22:00
22:09 rfw joined 22:34 kid51 joined 22:40 jsut_ joined, Khisanth joined
cotto_work kid51: ping 22:41
kid51 cotto_work: pong. Yes I see the commits to tt_2185; testing now. 22:46
Good results on Linux; testing on Darwin. 22:47
cotto_work kid51: what do I need to do to set up and administer a list on lists.parrot.org? 22:48
dukeleto interesting: software.intel.com/en-us/articles/m...rformance/ 22:50
msg Coke I am getting more spam about your gsoc final eval not being done
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
kid51 YOu probably need to contact OSU OSL. whiteknight and I administer the existing lists (and smash for parrot-members), but I don't think we have privs for starting a new list. 22:51
What are you thinking of?
cotto_work kid51: starting some automated HLL testing and reporting
kid51 You want a mailing list for that? As opposed to some sort of web site/service? 22:52
cotto_work I care very little how the data are presented, as long as it's easy to notice for people who care.
kid51 Well, because these lists attract a certain amount of spam, they require a certain commitment to admin them. 22:54
benabik spam--
kid51 I doubt that would be a productive use of your time.
cotto_work My priority is to get something working quickly. Alternatives are welcome.
kid51 It occupies 2-3 minutes of my time every day ... which may not seem much, but if on average you only have 60 min available for Parrot per day, it's significant 22:55
cotto_work How much spam/day do our lists get?
kid51 I think the best functioning of all our reporting systems is ttbot or tinderbox or whatever it's called.
Also, please note how, e.g., cpan-testers has moved away from the mailing list model. 22:56
cotto_work To be honest, I'm explicitly unconcerned about long-term maintainability issues. If the infrastructure proves useful, we'll make it better as needed. 22:57
If taptinder can be made to work, that's great. 23:01
kid51 Well, color me skeptical re using a lists.parrot.org list for that purpose. But feel free to write up something on parrot-dev so others can comment. Also it would be a good idea to run your ideas by the sysadmins at OSUOSL.
cotto_work Consider yourself skeptically colored. ;)
benabik What's the hex value for skeptical? 23:06
It's not in the standard list of CSS colors.
;-)
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dalek rrot/tt_2185: 0ce783f | jkeenan++ | tools/release/releasecheck.pl:
In testing release, provide Configure.pl with same command-line options as used initially. Remove re-release test.
 23:55

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