"Tuesday at 20:30 UTC"
Set by moderator on 20 September 2010.
01:05 tcurtis joined 01:41 whiteknight left 01:55 tcurtis left 01:58 tcurtis joined, tcurtis left 09:59 contingencyplan left 12:15 kid51 joined
kid51 kid51's report 12:15
DONE
* Completed deprecation in TT #1785.
* Completed implementation of new configuration step for ipv6 in TT #1824.
* Posted on parrot-dev (tinyurl.com/2bqcq2m) call for Parrot Developers Online Summit, Sunday November 6, 1500 UTC.
* Posted on parrot-dev (tinyurl.com/288ufpd) re how we can use short-term task forces in conjunction with proposed team structure. 12:16
TO DO
* Look into what dukeleto needs in configuration for RTEMS.
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whiteknight What I did: 19:15
* Blogging 19:16
* Looking really hard at the embedding interface
* It's going to require an overhaul, I'm prototyping some things locally and asking questions in #parrot
What I will do:
* Work more on the embedding interface
* Looking for an example project to work on for it. I'm thinking a plugin for XChat. 19:17
What I am blocking on:
* Nothing
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dukeleto What I did: 19:27
* Attended GSoC Mentor Summit, lead a Dynamic Language Interop session
openetherpad.org/dynlanginterop
* Currently at GIT Together 2010
* Got a blog post about Perl+Parrot on the Google Open Source Blog:
google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010...-love.html
* Hacked with RTEMS devs at the summit, made good progress on Parrot+RTEMS
* Made TT#1840 to add a c probe to detect if we are running on rtems
* Talked a bunch about our embed/extend api with parrot devs
What I will do: 19:28
* Sleep sometime soon.
* Apply to Google Code In for Parrot and possibly The Perl Foundation
code.google.com/opensource/gci/2010...index.html
Blocking on:
* ETIMECOMPRESSIONNOTIMPLEMENTED
* Need to know if we are serious about Google Code-In, deadline is Oct 29th. We need to design tasks for code-in students.
* These talks can be improving our website, translating docs and various other things, not just code.
* Need to know if we want to be our own org in Code-In.
EOR
19:34 NotFound joined 19:38 chromatic joined 19:40 bluescreen joined 20:01 kid51 joined 20:04 whiteknight left
sorear kid51: relevant to 2010.10.24.16.39.59 <@kid51> ... can we draft you onto our fix-the-design-and-APIs team? 20:05
kid51: what exactly do you want me to do?
20:08 allison joined
chromatic Done: fixing bugs in 2.9.0's GC 20:11
Will do: branch to make GC MS2 sweepfree, if possible
Blocking: lack of minions
allison - At the Ubuntu Developer Summit this week. 20:14
- Working on a summary of Parrot's sandboxing plans for Ubuntu specs on future sandbox technologies.
- Working on 2.9.1 packages for Debian/Ubuntu.
EOR
mikehh What I did since my last report: 20:16
* building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
* some fixes
* branch testing and fixing
* got html_cleanup branch up-to-date
What I intend to do in the next week:
* testing and fixing
.eor
NotFound -parrot 20:17
* Added a test
* Deleted deprecate method String.lower
What I will do:
No plan
EOR
cotto #done: 20:18
- started a blog, posted about:
- taking on the architect role
- what Parrot teams might look like
- feedback on either is appreciated
#to do:
- more blogging
- get packfilebytecodesegment working, use it in make_hello_pbc, merge into trunk
#eor
q4q
kid51 q2q 20:24
Util No parrot work this week. 20:28
7-day ticket summary:
4 closed: fixed
1 closed: invalid
1 reopened
8 new
.end
20:29 tcurtis joined
kid51 Hello, #parrotsketch 20:30
cotto hi
sorear hi
kid51 Who is chairing meeting today? 20:31
mikehh hi there
chromatic Shall we begin?
kid51 proceed
chromatic How'd we do last week?
I managed to put in a small amount of GC tuning. 20:32
kid51 Util just posted Trac summary; *very* quiet on that front
chromatic The probe for available memory seems to work pretty well for me; how is it on smaller boxes?
kid51 I have been able to build on 256MM
After some additional debugging of darwin probe 20:33
cotto There were some platform-specific issues, but I think those got sorted.
kid51 So, we're no worse off than last week :-)
chromatic Rakudo is still slow to build.
kid51 No complaints from Rakudo since 2.9.1, though I haven't seen a release yet
20:34 nwellnhof joined
kid51 (We should request Rakudo folks pre-post a report for this meeting.) 20:34
chromatic How many deprecations do we have to remove?
kid51 does not know how to get that number quickly 20:35
anyone else?
chromatic "A lot" or "Just a few" is a fine answer.
kid51 In DEPRECATION.pod, I see two entries marked 'eligible in 2.10' -- which presumably means they just became eligible, right? 20:36
chromatic I believe so. 20:37
cotto yes
kid51 And there are 38 'eligible in' strings in all -- sum going back to 1.1 ;-)
145:=item charset, charsetname, find_charset, trans_charset [eligible in 2.10]
cotto yes. At this point everything in that file is eligible 20:38
kid51 152:=item fixed_8 encoding [eligible in 2.10]
chromatic Plenty of work to do then.
kid51 A 3rd: 256:=item errorson, errorsoff operations [eligible in 2.10]
chromatic Any suggestions for work this week? 20:39
kid51 TT #1778 and TT #1655
Yes. Form teams to work on Embedding and Lorito.
chromatic I suppose now's as good a time as any to work on those. 20:40
Who's interested in embedding?
kid51 whiteknight is chomping at the bit to implement better APIs for embedding
and dukeleto is doing it
and there was considerable interest in embedding on #parrot yesterday 20:41
cotto I asked atrodo to write up his experiences implementing a Lorito prototype. From that, I'll form a list of questions to answer.
chromatic Do we have leaders for both teams? 20:42
cotto Lorito is a pretty architecty thing.
kid51 Since this will be our first attempt at implementing the 'team' concept as outline in cotto's post, I suggest whiteknight for Embedding and cotto for Lorito
cotto wfm
chromatic +1 20:43
kid51 And then they can delegate from there. Or the teams can delegate amongst themselves.
chromatic Shall we move on to questions?
kid51 k 20:44
chromatic cotto, first question.
cotto We could benefit from having someone to lead the QA team. The responsibilities are on trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotTeams, but basically the job involves making sure that people write tests and documentation and that tests get run. Is anyone willing to take this role on?
kid51 If someone other than me is designated as Project manager, then I would consider being QA leader. 20:45
cotto kid51, do you feel like you'd be better suited to QA?
kid51 but i don't see other people coming forward for project manager, and that's the way my own thinking has tended in last week 20:46
allison kid51: it was mentioned that you might temporarily wear both hats
kid51 I think it's more important that we get/name/elect a Project Manager first. 20:47
allison kid51: agreed that's the most important role now
kid51 But we should get 1 person/hat
chromatic I'm the wrong person for QA, but I don't mind PM.
cotto +1 to chromatic for PM and kid51 for QA 20:48
kid51 I approached one person about QA, who had hesitations, but perhaps discussion can continue
mikehh I like that idea, chromatic for PM, kid51 for QA
I am quite happy to help out on both teams
cotto kid51, how do you feel about that? 20:49
kid51 Re either role, we will have to discuss (not necessarily now), what the job entails and what authority the person(s) in that role has.
Because a PM or a QA lead without authority is ... helpless.
cotto authority is as authority does 20:50
(within reason)
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chromatic Other thoughts? 20:50
Let's table that temporarily then. 20:51
kid51 Should we designate those roles now ... or is this something that should be a topic at Summit (11/07)? (I could go either way.)
NotFound Sorry, been busy unexpectedly.
kid51 Certainly, roles and structure should be determined by end of Summit.
chromatic: Maybe you and I can discuss this off-channel and figure out division of labor. 20:52
chromatic Fine with me.
kid51, you had a question. (I'll get back to cotto's others shortly.) 20:53
kid51 Well, I had two things. First was on teams, which we've already partially discussed.
I'd simply like to recommend that any team have:
name
leader
mission
Trac ticket describing mission 20:54
members
duration
cotto why a ticket?
kid51 and teams can consider using #parrotsketch for team meetings on days other than Tuesdays
Because the kind of teams we were just discussing are focused around particular problems/projects and are likely to have a limited duration
Embedding: "a" product management team/task force rather than "the" product management team 20:55
chromatic Lorito and Embedding?
kid51 Yes
cotto Ah. You're talking about task forces, not the general team structure
mikehh I think yes to Trac, but not necessarily a ticket
kid51 Let's take Embedding
I know that whiteknight has some very specific problems he'd like to solve in 1-3 months. 20:56
So we can focus people on that.
And a trac ticket can follow that task force's progress. 20:57
kid51 is not wed to this idea ... but I think a project manager would like some easy way to track a team's progress
NotFound I'll prefer several ticktes with sorter term goals. 20:58
chromatic +1 NotFound
NotFound shorter
For the big task, a wiki page.
kid51 Well, I think this can be worked out between the task force's leader and the project manager
The main thing is: mission members leader 20:59
So, those are my thoughts on that q; we can go on 21:00
mikehh I can see a possible problem here, pressures of $work can necessitate handing off the leader role
chromatic cotto, next question
cotto We want to do Google's Code-In, which is essentially GSoC Jr. dukeleto doesn't have the tuits unless TPF can come up with a grant, which seems unlikely. We'd like to be our own org, but we'll need an org admin. Any volunteers? Note that because this is the first year for Code-In, there should be lots of people asking the questions you'll need answered.
kid51 $job; back in a few 21:01
sorear I am a Parrot mostly-outsider whom kid51 has approached for the architecture and APIs team; what are my place and duties? 21:02
mikehh sorear: I don't think we have finalized these yet 21:03
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chromatic What kind of duties does the Code-In admin need to perform? 21:03
cotto dukeleto would know best. Apparently it's more work than might be expected. 21:04
Apparently he had to take off. 21:06
chromatic I see no volunteers; should we table that too?
cotto I guess so.
next question: We also need a list of small tasks for Code-In students. These should be pretty short (write docs, translate, small bufixes) and documnted on the wiki. Any volunteers for that?
chromatic How small is small? 21:07
cotto code.google.com/opensource/gci/2010...s.html#tq1
chromatic Anything they can help with on the docs branch? 21:08
cotto That'd be a good place. 21:09
If nothing else, I'll start a wiki page. 21:10
chromatic +1 21:11
cotto last question: dukeleto suggested that the team leads have a regular meeting (weekly or monthly) via skype as a dedicated channel and an attempt to gain some of the benefits of face-to-face interaction. Any thoughts, especially from leads?
cotto listens to the crickets 21:13
kid51 As mentioned above, #parrotsketch is under-utilized and could be used as well as skype 21:14
NotFound is skype-free
chromatic +1 to #ps
kid51 got his skype account last night ... but no one is calling :-(
IIUC, computer-to-computer calls are free, right? 21:15
NotFound #ps is logged
atrodo kid51> correct 21:16
dukeleto is back
cotto there's no reason video chat can't be transcribed, though it's not automatic
21:16 bluescreen left
NotFound Also, my spoken english sucks a lot. 21:16
dukeleto I am fine with plain audo chat
audio, even
cotto I like the immediacy of face time, and skype or audio-only chat is a good way to simulate that. 21:17
dukeleto backlogs
NotFound I'll send you a photo if you want to see my face ;)
kid51 we don't need the video (me haz no webcam) but it would be *great* to hear other peoples' voices! 21:18
cotto The perl6 guys do a regular call. How does that work?
NotFound Hearing my voice in english will not be great, but maybe amusing. 21:19
kid51 NotFound: we can have a side chat in Spanish
cotto Um... no comprendo.
chromatic The Sixperl call uses a conference call bridge.
cotto ;)
kid51 can u explain what that is? 21:20
NotFound I don't even know how to pronounce 'winxed' X-)
kid51 different from a regular conference call?
dukeleto NotFound: "winged" :)
chromatic Just a number into which we all dial. 21:21
cotto How hard is that to set up, and is it recorded?
chromatic Nat Torkington set it up ages ago, and it's not recorded. 21:22
cotto Maybe Google Voice could help.
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cotto As a bonus, we'd get hilariously mangled automatic transcriptions. 21:23
sorear NotFound: how did you come up with the name?
chromatic: how does the recording + blogging work? 21:24
NotFound sorear: Watchig a Winx Club film.
chromatic There's no recording. 21:25
kid51 Well, I think that the important thing now is: Are we actually going to set up these (2) task forces now? Then their leaders can organize the logistics
NotFound sorear: And mixing it with the sugestion of naming winxed-... the parrot implementation of some languages
winged-... 21:26
cotto will
kid51 concretely, are people like atrodo NotFound sorear interested in being part of these limited-term efforts
NotFound kid51: I don't think I have the ability of evaluating what tasks are appropiate for beginners. 21:27
dukeleto If we are serious about Google Code-In, we need a task force for it 21:28
kid51 NotFound: Are you talking about the Google code-in? (I was referring to Embedding and Lorito)
NotFound kid51: ah, sorry, I mixed up.
kid51 Well, maybe we're talking 3 task forces: Embedding; Lorito; Code-in ...
cotto dukeleto, can you give us some idea what you think would be involved in being the org admin?
NotFound kid51: I've already talked with whiteknight about being in the embedding effort. 21:29
kid51 ... more or less led by whiteknight, cotto and dukeleto respectively
NotFound: Excellent!
excelente!
mikehh dukeleto: I am quite happy to help out with testing and stuff like that 21:30
dukeleto cotto: it will be very similar to being the GSoC org admin
cotto: what level of detail are you looking for?
atrodo kid51> I do plan on, at some level, being involved in the embedding and lorito task forces
cotto Give a potential volunteer an idea of what he'd be getting into. 21:31
kid51 atrodo: Great! You can work out the details with each task force leader
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dukeleto I need people to design "tasks" for 13-18 students, that introduce them to being involved in an open source project. I think we need some tasks making parrot.org more useful, and possibly translating some of our pages into other languages 21:32
kid51 sorear: Are you interested in one of these 3 teams?
dukeleto 13-18 *year old* students
Tene If there's sufficient desire for recorded audio conferences, I could set up a sip server with asterisk.
dukeleto I don't know how many students we will mentor. I am actually supposed to ask for how many slots that I want
Tene: that could be cool.
cotto Tene, +1
NotFound I hope that recent interest in video chats is not related with the posibility of having 13-18 years old involved... ;) 21:33
dukeleto cotto: your summary earlier in #ps is incorrect. It is not lack of tuits, and I *will* be the admin. But I need mentors to design tasks.
cotto dukeleto, glad to hear it then. Designing tasks is something that parallelizes nicely. 21:34
and I'm sure we can come up with some mentors
dukeleto google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010...es-in.html
sorear NotFound: My understanding is that the video chat is only for team heads; Skype (and a new computer w/ a hardware MPEG codec, a microphone, etc) would be a huge increase in the barrier to entry for me... 21:35
dukeleto cotto: we need to get on that soon, application deadline is Friday
sorear kid51: Lorito if any.
cotto sorear, it sounds like we're moving toward voice-only, which has some advantages
kid51 Excellent. I refer you to Mssrs. cotto and atrodo.
dukeleto another useful GCI link: code.google.com/opensource/gci/2010...rules.html 21:37
chromatic Any other questions? 21:39
dukeleto So who wants to be a mentor for Google Code-In and help design tasks?
cotto does
kid51 Anyone else here whose arm we can twist about being on a team/task force? Tene? allison? Util?
Tene kid51: Maybe. I've been extremely unreliable about everything for the past months.
I'd love to help, but I haven't been able to actually get anything done. 21:40
chromatic Does having a concrete set of tasks help?
dukeleto chromatic: We need a list of tasks to apply, and the application deadline is Friday. 21:41
chromatic: without tasks, we can't even apply
chromatic I meant for Tene. 21:42
dukeleto facepalms
kid51 gives Tene a 3-sided coin to flip :-)
chromatic Any other questions? 21:43
Tene chromatic: It's certainly helped a lot in the past. It hasn't seemed to help recently. 21:44
There's an open invitation for anyone to try to harass me into working. I have no recommendations on what might work.
dukeleto Tene: can you spend a few mins designing tasks for student for GCI?
tcurtis kid51: I would love to help with Lorito (or something else), but I lack the tuits, and if I do have spare tuits for Parrot, I should probably spend them on making my GSoC project mergeable. 21:45
chromatic Even porting tests from Perl 5 to PIR would work.
cotto tcurtis, that'd be a valuable contribution.
dukeleto tcurtis++ # merge that branch!
Tene GCI?
cotto Google Code-In 21:46
dukeleto cotto++
kid51 r we done? 21:48
Tene Is there a place we're coordinating what we present to GCI?
This is the first I'm hearing about GCI
I'm at work right now, but I can see what I can do tonight. 21:49
chromatic GCI needs a leader who isn't dukeleto.
kid51 GCI => Google code-in
chromatic Or at least an organizer.
kid51 mikehh: Can you be that person? 21:50
cotto trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GoogleC...n2010Tasks (currently a stub)
mikehh I can try and co-ordinate with dukeleto as leader 21:51
kid51 Great! (And that will get you out of being QA leader ;-) )
dukeleto cotto++ # making a wiki page 21:53
kid51 has to go home and do laundry
dukeleto mikehh++ # awesome!
chromatic Shall we call this a meeting then? 21:54
dukeleto adds some content to the GCI wiki page
mikehh dukeleto: I can certainly put something together re test from perl5 to PIR, need help for other ideas
dukeleto mikehh: i will give you some ideas
mikehh: remember, non-code projects are allowable too
mikehh sure but I am not sure about aiming at 13-18 age group 21:55
cotto mikehh, pick relatively unintimidating tasks and don't assume we'll get a bunch more tcurtises 21:56
mikehh we can hope :-} 21:57
21:58 kid51 left
dukeleto goes back to #parrot 22:01
22:01 dukeleto left 22:05 allison left 22:11 nwellnhof left 22:32 NotFound left 22:45 bluescreen left 23:31 whiteknight joined 23:53 chromatic left

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