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Parrotsketch Every Tuesday @ 18:30 UTC | IRC Log at irclog.perlgeek.de/parrotsketch/today Set by moderator on 18 February 2009. |
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| Coke | Early greetings. | 18:27 | |
| Tene | Hi! | 18:28 | |
| moritz | hello | 18:30 | |
| Whiteknight | hello | ||
| moritz | it's time now | ||
| barney | Hallo | ||
| NotFound | hi | ||
| Coke | Alright. lacking a chromatic, I'll lead. | ||
| cotto | hi | ||
| Coke | My report: | 18:31 | |
| - another issue of TWIP, this one rather lame and placeholdery. | |||
| - cleaned up some of the experimental ops. (TT #415 for the rest) | |||
| - moved languages/APL to code.google.com/p/paraplegic/ | |||
| - make test harness use new runcore options and ripped out the old ones. some of the tests rely on the old short versions, much of the fallout fixed by rg++. [1] | |||
| - minor progress trying to get 'make examples_tests' 100% clean by 1.0 - may involve deleting extremly old, broken examples. | |||
| [1] Highlights that once something is deprecated and a replacement exists, we should start warning on the old behavior so we can quickly remove any old usage. We tried to do that for the runcore options, but failed; and the warnings from the old "-j" options were swallowed by the harness. So we thought we had fixed this months ago but hadn't. | |||
| . | |||
| Whiteknight? | |||
| Whiteknight | * Been spending most of my time working on Matrixy, the new M-on-Parrot compiler | ||
| * Testing on Ubuntu8.10 x86_64, WinVista x86_64, and WinVista x86. Opening tickets as I find errors. | |||
| * Calling conventions work on hold till after the release for stability. | |||
| EOR | |||
| Coke | Thanks. | 18:32 | |
| barney? | |||
| barney | Pipp: | ||
| Worked on building, testing and installing outside the parrot tree. | |||
| http;//pipp.org now redirects to wiki.github.com/bschmalhofer/pipp | |||
| cotto++ fixed critical bug. | |||
| .eor | |||
| Coke | Danke. | ||
| Since you mentioned cotto... cotto? | |||
| cotto | * converted more PMCs to ATTRs | ||
| - Continuation (+ RetContinuation, ExceptionHandler) | |||
| - ParrotLibrary | |||
| - ParrotInterpreter (+ ParrotThread, ParrotRunningThread) | |||
| - Rational, GDBMHash | |||
| - FixedPMCArray (+ ResizablePMCArray ) | |||
| * no HLL breakage thanks to the wonders of VTABLE functions | |||
| * the remaining PMCs (Hash and ManagedStruct families) should be easy, having no impact on HLLs | |||
| EOR | |||
| q1q | 18:33 | ||
| interesting order, btw | |||
| allison here | |||
| Coke | Thanks. Alphabetical is officially out of date. | ||
| moritz | so web 1.0 ;-) | ||
| Coke | moritz, you're up. | ||
| moritz | * some Rakudo hacking | ||
| * trying to answer Rakudo questions on #perl6 - they seem to increase | 18:34 | ||
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| moritz | * spent rest of my free time writing articles about Perl 6 | 18:34 | |
| * observed that Rakudo works fine on optimized parrot (on amd64) | |||
| .eor | |||
| Coke | (optimized parrot) nice. | ||
| NotFound, you're up. | |||
| moritz | aye ;-) | ||
| NotFound | * Some more work in extend/embed | ||
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| NotFound | * Added the program pbc_checker | 18:35 | |
| * Working on annotations, showing them in traces and backtraces | |||
| * Miscellaneous cleans and fixes | |||
| EOR | |||
| Coke | danke. | 18:36 | |
| kj comes in late, without a report due to $work | |||
| Coke | so reported. | ||
| chromatic, how goes? | |||
| chromatic | Working on the bug triaging guidelines; will have a draft in a couple of hours. | 18:37 | |
| q1q about where to put it. | |||
| Util here | |||
| Coke | util, shoot. | ||
| Util | Many typos and codingstd fixes. | ||
| More to come. | 18:38 | ||
| `make fulltest` vs `make fulltest_all` in TT#432 resolved. | |||
| Fixing copyright formatting, toward re-enabling the .t that is skipping it. | |||
| Emailing remaining copyright hold-outs. | |||
| Alert: main LICENSE file says "Perl Foundation"! | |||
| Found evidence of a a hole in the release procedures, causing parrot.spec and other files edited during the release to to have DOS line-endings, only in the tarball. Ticket in the works. | |||
| Plan to continue along these lines until after the 1.0 release, then to help Infinoid with docs. | 18:39 | ||
| EOR | |||
| Coke | q1q in response to util. | ||
| allison, i think you're all that's left. anyone else have a report but hasn't spoken up yet? | 18:40 | ||
| pmichaud | (here, hadn't spoken up yet) | ||
| Tene | |||
| Coke | ok. tene? | 18:41 | |
| (whoops, I missed you from the early responders.) | |||
| Tene | Giving a presentation on PCT to the local LUG tomorrow. .EOR | ||
| (You didn't say a *good* report) | |||
| Coke | well, let's follow that up with patrick, who no doubt will make up for you in volume. =-) | ||
| (with pmichaud, in case he's filtering on his nick. =-) | 18:42 | ||
| pmichaud | doubtful, today. =-) | ||
| Primarily I've been working on rakudo tasks, documentation for developers and cleaning up rakudo tickets | |||
| I expect to spend the next day or so closing out my parrot release tasks | |||
| I'm also reviewing the impact of recent Perl 6 specification changes on PGE and PCT -- q1q regarding this | 18:43 | ||
| EOR | |||
| Coke | alrightee. | ||
| (you still beat tene.) | |||
| Allison, you're up. | |||
| allison | - Ticket maintenance, applied patches, fixed bugs, answered questions. | ||
| - Test failure review, fix/TODO/skip. | 18:44 | ||
| - Worked on Debian/Ubuntu packaging, prepping for 1.0. | |||
| - Documentation cleanup, revisions for clarity, revisions for out-of-date content, revisions for coding standards, gave 'make html' a detailed TOC, added version number to generated HTML. | |||
| EOR & q1q | |||
| Coke | alright. my question for util was resolved in #parrot, so I'm done. | ||
| let's jump to chromatic's which is hopefully quick. | |||
| chromatic | Where should I put the bug triaging guidelines document? | 18:45 | |
| allison | chromatic: docs/project seems sensible | ||
| Coke | +1 | ||
| chromatic | docs/project/bug_triaging.pod ? | ||
| Coke | perhaps the more generic "issue..." | 18:46 | |
| but I don't care that much. | 18:47 | ||
| docs/project/bug_triaging.pod it is. | |||
| allison | either is good | ||
| Coke | alrightee. Cotto? | ||
| cotto | There are two groups of PMCs left to convert to ATTRs (Hash and ManagedStruct). Assuming that all tests pass (and rakudo's make test is happy), what's the latest I should commit changes to these PMCs before the 1.0 release? | 18:48 | |
| Coke | before the weekend, I'd say. | ||
| chromatic | It'd be nice to have at least all day Sunday and Monday to review smokes and fix things. | ||
| cotto | sounds good | 18:49 | |
| Whiteknight | cotto, you need any help with that? | ||
| I'll take one if you take the other, etc | |||
| Coke | You can divvy it up in #parrot. =-) | ||
| Util | q1q | 18:50 | |
| Coke | Util: just go now. =-) | ||
| cotto | eoq | ||
| Util | Will languages/cola leave the nest before parrot's 1.0 release? | ||
| Melvin Smith's copyright statements are the biggest block to un-SKIPping t/codingstd/copyright.t test#2. | |||
| allison | Util: yes | ||
| Coke | Util: it will be deleted, if nothing else. | ||
| Util | Thanks. | ||
| Coke | pmichaud: shoot. | ||
| Tene | q1q | 18:51 | |
| pmichaud | This past week has seen a lot of substantial changes to Match objects (what gets produced by PGE) | ||
| in the Perl 6 specification | |||
| both PGE and the compiler toolkit will need to be updated to match the spec | |||
| which means we have a deprecation issue | 18:52 | ||
| if I put notes for all of the deprecations into the current trunk (and in the 1.0 release) -- will anyone have an issue if they get removed shortly thereafter? | |||
| allison | this has happened before, and we did parallel development for a while, and then deprecated the old one | ||
| Coke | pmichaud: no, that's the plan on deprecations. | ||
| pmichaud | this isn't something that's conducive to parallel development. | ||
| before the issue was syntax changes -- so I could implement the new syntax while supporting the old. | |||
| The new changes are fundamentally semantic. | 18:53 | ||
| Coke | put in the deprecation notices now so they're in the release; then as soon as 1.0 is cut you can change it. | ||
| allison | ok, then yes, standard deprecation policy, which means you can make the changes right after 1.0 if needed | ||
| Coke | (sooner the better, so more testing before 1.4) | ||
| all set? | |||
| pmichaud | okay. Where possible I will try to support the deprecated stuff until other languages have time to switch over, but some things might break shortly after 1.0. | ||
| thanks. | 18:54 | ||
| Coke | as long as it's shortly after and not before. =-) | ||
| tene, you're next. | |||
| Tene | How urgent is the request I saw on the ML to move languages out of trunk? | ||
| Do I need to relocate cardinal and lolcode? | |||
| allison | Tene: this leads into my question | 18:55 | |
| Tene | I've only vaguely been kinda following it. | ||
| Coke | then lets jump to allison's question. =-) | ||
| allison | The languages/ directory is going away today (or within the next couple of days) | ||
| pmichaud | I'm planning to move pynie to squawk | ||
| allison | pmichaud: I'd rather move pynie to a dedicated repository | ||
| not within any umbrella repository | 18:56 | ||
| pmichaud | okay, I can create a dedicated one then. Googlecode, I guess? | ||
| allison | don't care if it's git or svn, though | ||
| googlecode sounds good (since Guido works there) | |||
| pmichaud | one potential pynie developer I spoke with thought that svn might be better than git for acceptance | ||
| allison | pmichaud: okay, useful info | ||
| My general Q: Other languages to move before I start relocating the remaining ones? | 18:57 | ||
| pmichaud | where will abc and lolcode go? | ||
| allison | I've currently got: | ||
| - abc, lolcode, and squaak -> examples/languages | |||
| - pheme, dotnet, c99, pod, json, PIR, ecmascript -> svn.parrot.org/languages | |||
| - cardinal -> ? dedicated repository? | |||
| Tene | I'll put it on github | ||
| pmichaud | for cardinal I highly recommend github | 18:58 | |
| Tene: would you like me to do the transfer (preserving history), since I already did it once for rakudo? | |||
| Coke | OOC, why is lolcode going to examples ? | ||
| allison | Everything else that hasn't already been claimed or moved, is deleted. | ||
| Tene | pmichaud: sure, that would be great | ||
| Coke | (and not to svn.parrot.org/languages) | ||
| allison | Coke: someone suggested it, don't remember who, would be just as happy to put it in the languages repo | 18:59 | |
| pmichaud | Tene: do we need a special cardinal account on github, or shall I just do it into mine (and someone can pull from there into a new master repo)? | ||
| chromatic | lolcode has to go to examples/ so we can have a Perl 6 to lolcode converter. | ||
| Coke | chromatic: ok, you win. | ||
| pmichaud | actually, the lolcode conversion becomes part of PCT :-P | ||
| cotto | +a lot | ||
| allison | chromatic: :) we can do that in the languages repo too :) | ||
| Tene | pmichaud: I don't know the benefits of having a dedicated account. | ||
| Coke | that can be hashed out in #parrot. Any other language related questions? | 19:00 | |
| pmichaud | Tene: in rakudo's case, I did it primarily so that Rakudo wouldn't be attached to me personally. | ||
| Coke | (and, any other reports we're missing?) | ||
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| pmichaud | Also, I could potentially give out the password to rakudo's account on github to trusted folks without having to give out my own password. | 19:00 | |
| (so there can be multiple meta-maintainers) | 19:01 | ||
| allison | pmichaud: the same reason (not attached to person) seems to make sense for cardinal too | ||
| pmichaud | we'll create a separate account for it. | ||
| Coke | +1 | ||
| Anyone have any other business? I have a general comment about documentation; we all need to be better about writing down decisions and pruning old stuff out of the repository. I suspect we'll see a lot of cleanup in the next week in that area as we get close to the 1.0 release. (I know that would have avoided some on-list confusion this week.) | 19:02 | ||
| Tene | I know I've said it before, but I plan to work on docs the coming week. | 19:03 | |
| Coke | +1 | ||
| NotFound | Forgot I have a question | ||
| Coke | nooooo | ||
| pmichaud | (better than having a forgotten question) | ||
| Coke | er, notfound, typo there. go ahead. | ||
| NotFound | Short, I promise | ||
| allison | Coke: +1 on documentation | ||
| NotFound | pdd13 description of segmente header lacks some fields. Must we make it to refelect current state? | 19:04 | |
| Coke | yes, even if only to say "these fields exist but will be removed." | ||
| Infinoid | peanut gallery: pdd13 is also out of date with regards to annotations | ||
| allison | NotFound/Infinoid: could you submit patches or make fixes to pdd13 for segment header and annotations? | 19:05 | |
| NotFound | And they will be removed? There are no comments in the code indicating that. | ||
| And one of them is actually used in several segment types. | 19:06 | ||
| Infinoid | I don't understand jonathan++'s recent annotations changes well enough to patch pdd13, otherwise I would love to. | ||
| Coke | NotFound: my comment wasn't meant to imply that was the case, merely that it was a possibility. | ||
| allison | NotFound: generally, the PDD reflects future plans, but something missing could either be intentionally excluded or simply missed | ||
| Coke | in /either/ case, they should be in the docs. | ||
| cotto | q1q (quick) | 19:07 | |
| Infinoid | in the case of annotations, pdd13 is outdated, not the current state of parrot | ||
| allison | and, yes, need to be documented, we can make a decision later | ||
| Infinoid: then pdd13 definitely needs to be updated | |||
| Coke | so, updates to pdd13 needed; a ticket to trac progress on that might be good. | ||
| NotFound | allison: I think an accurate description of the current format is a must-have. | ||
| Coke | agreed, even if it is subject to change. | ||
| allison | NotFound: yes | ||
| Coke | alrightee. cotto, you're back on the list. Shoot. | 19:08 | |
| cotto | Should docs/pmc.pod (which I'll be updating) be moved to docs/pmc/pmc.pod or otherwise renamed? | ||
| Coke | docs/pmc/*.pod is for pod from pmcs. | ||
| allison | cotto: leave it where it is | ||
| Coke | generic docs about pmcs can probably stay in docs. | ||
| cotto | ok. I'll update it in-place. | 19:09 | |
| eoq | |||
| Coke | woot. the queue is empty. | ||
| allison, I'll let you close it out with something heartfelt about next week's release, and we can all hold hands and hum. | |||
| NotFound | Infinoid: What is the problem with annotations? I managed to work with them without much problem. | 19:10 | |
| allison | Oooooohm... | ||
| Infinoid | NotFound: the PMC API documented in PDD13 doesn't reflect the current layout of structures and functions | ||
| NotFound | Infinoid: ah, fine, I was looking just at the pbc format. | ||
| Infinoid | Some extra stuff was added after pdd13 was written, and some things have been moved around | 19:11 | |
| Yeah, and I'm just looking at the API :) | |||
| allison | I'm planning to generate the tarball early this month, and pass it around for platform testing. | ||
| (that is, early on release day) | |||
| NotFound | Infinoid: in the api part, I'd like to discuss a bit the lookup function. | ||
| But out of #ps, better | 19:12 | ||
| Infinoid | NotFound: yeah, moving to #parrot | ||
| Coke | allison: all set/ | 19:13 | |
| ? | |||
| allison | yup | ||
| Thanks everybody! | |||
| Coke | 7 days until 1.0; Tell your friends. | ||
| . | |||
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