"Tuesday at 20:30 UTC"
Set by moderator on 8 July 2010.
08:48 robin-gvx joined 12:21 bluescreen joined 15:26 mikehh joined 15:35 bubaflub joined 15:47 macroron joined 16:13 eternaleye joined 16:27 darbelo joined 16:35 tcurtis joined 16:59 mikehh joined 17:11 darbelo joined 17:26 cotto_work joined 18:07 NotFound joined 19:44 atrodo joined 19:46 khairul joined
cotto_work #did: 20:00
- met with khairul
- amended support policy
#will do:
- draft a plan and timeline for the git migration
- dig into #1127 (profiling bug due to incorrect packfile debug segments)
#eor
q3q
Coke Did - - released parrot 2.6.0 - released rakudo 2010.07/Atlanta - minor trac eyeballing - minor partcl-nqp updates. 20:06
Todo: - finally update 'make html' - add namespace support to partcl-nqp (at least as much as is in partcl
Also: whatever ate those newlines sucks.
EOR.
Tene I committed a few lines to nqp-rx repo to implement 'our method' for austin and whiteknight. I've been waiting on their confirmation before bringing it into the parrot repo. 20:08
EOR
Looks like I'm starting to recover from burnout just a little bit.
tcurtis What I did: 20:13
* Started implementing Tree::Optimizer.
* Blog post
- parrot.org/content/cleaning-and-spe...eoptimizer
What I will do:
* More Tree::Optimizer stuff.
- Dependencies
- :when/:recursive
darbelo DONE 20:15
- Bought a smallish UPS. No more power outages for me!
- Wasted a *lot* of time refactoring the wrong code.
- Benchmarked stuff. Turns out string speed is mostly irrelevant, compared to PCC and GC in most cases.
- Did a reasonable amount of refactoring on the right code.
- Made the charset struct smaller and a little bit cleaner.
- Made the encoding struct smaller and a little bit cleaner.
- I think there's still stuff that can be moved out of there.
TODO
- Keep refactoring the string code.
- See if any of it can be made lazier or smaller.
- Maybe try the "unshared buffers" approach.
- Add more NFG tests.
EOR. 20:16
Coke OH HAI Q1Q
NotFound What I did:
-parrot
* Just testing
-winxed
* More float const improvements
* Scientific notation
* Operatots *= and /=
* Allow $ in identifiers
* $include_const statement to import pir int constants
* Some minor fixes and optimizations
* Improved example fly
What I will do:
No plan
EOR
20:19 chromatic joined 20:21 bubaflub joined
mikehh What I did since my last report: 20:25
* building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
* some fixes
* some work on html_cleanup branch
* testing rakudo, partcl-nqp, partcl, pir/PIRATE, winxed and plumage
* looking at make splint output to see how I can use it
What I intend to do in the next week:
* testing and fixing
* more preparation as release manager for 2.7.0
.eor
chromatic I'm gathering notes on how to store classes in PBC. I'll keep on with that and notes on Lorito, and may get to some GC profiling.
khairul Did:
- Added more tests
Will Do:
- Fix my bugs exposed in the tests.
- Write more tests
- Start on user documentation
EOR
bubaflub Did: 20:28
* Worked on out of directory configuring
Will do:
* Finish configuring / building out of directory
* Start cross-compilation support
EOR
chromatic Hello, everyone. 20:31
bubaflub hello.
mikehh hello
cotto_work hi
Util # Done: * Win32 rakudo bugs squashed * Helped with Rakudo announcement and CREDITS.
# Plan for next week: * Unstructured catchup * Read all Lorito notes, to be able to speak coherently to Atlanta.pm's concerns.
# Blockers * $WORK * o-o-town half this week
.eor
and, Hi!
Coke ~~
darbelo Hola.
chromatic Let's review last week. Besides GSoC, I haven't seen many commits for a while. 20:32
mikehh right - not much happened
chromatic Theories? 20:33
darbelo The magical coding robot has beeen offline since before the relase :)
bubaflub summer slow down?
NotFound Hola
Util Code slush pre-official-supported-release?
Util is guilty 20:34
chromatic Not sure what to work on next?
cotto_work Do you suspect it's more than a natural slowdown?
NotFound SSD for me
mikehh and 'parrot wjth a space needs' directory work
chromatic 2.5 - 2.6 seemed like a slow release.
Util slow as in performance?
darbelo Util: commit-wise. 20:35
Util ok
mikehh nah activity (other that GSOC)
cotto_work branch merging and pruning might be a good jumpstart
Coke I did call for slush sooner than usual. 20:36
chromatic I noticed it before the slush.
Coke naturally occuring slush.
chromatic Is this something to concern ourselves with, or a natural thing? 20:37
cotto_work It could have soemthing to dow ith Lorito
chromatic That was my concern as well. 20:38
mikehh possibly, but there are plenty of things that need doing
cotto_work If that's the case, perhaps the best thing to do is recruit people for Lorito hacking and get the spec hammered out. 20:39
mikehh been looking at the output of make splint, trying to work out where to start
cotto_work and convince people that hacking on code that will be replaced by Lorito code isn't a waste of time (which I believe it isn't)
s/on code/on C code/ 20:40
chromatic We won't replace lots of C code in the near future.
cotto_work and when we do, we'll look very at the C we're replacing
chromatic I suppose the question is "How do we motivate people to 1) Bring Lorito into the world 2) Continue our existing system until we can eventually replace it all with Lorito?" 20:41
cotto_work s/very/very carefully/
mikehh lorito is M0 the rest still needs to work 20:43
cotto_work I can easily picture it being demotivating working on code that has a known expiration date. Thinking about how to shape that perception is important.
mikehh and gc is on top of that
cotto_work mikehh, very much so
Coke one thing that will help me hack on lorito is a concrete list of tasks.
... which i think already partially exists. 20:44
Util chromatic: 2) Assure people of which areas of existing Parrot can be safely improved on, with 0 risk of Lorito clobbering their hard work.
20:44 allison joined
chromatic What if I said "If you hack on this part of Parrot, we'll have a much easier time porting it to Lorito?" 20:44
Coke I think I'm the one that raised that concern originally. if no one else has mentioned it, it's probably just me. =-) 20:45
mikehh 1) getting parrot to work properly with a build directory that has spaces in it
cotto_work Clean and well-encapsulated systems will be much easier to port.
mikehh 2) improvements in the gc system 20:46
chromatic In the meantime, the faster Parrot runs the better Rakudo can take advantage of it.
mikehh 3) more test coverage and regression testing 20:47
cotto_work It sounds like a question or two could be added to LoritoDesignQuestions on this topic. 20:48
any volunteers who aren't me?
chromatic I'll take a look.
NotFound Why on earth is important to build in directories with spaces?
chromatic If we can't get that right, we don't have shell quoting right. 20:49
NotFound We can't get that right because we use make, and allow to use incompatible versions of make/shell 20:50
mikehh NotFound: it is an allowable option - particularly used in the Windows environment
NotFound mikehh: try to it with autotools 20:51
They don't do it right, because of the same reason.
mikehh NotFound: yeah I know - broken :-}
NotFound Broken by design.
chromatic Let's move the technical questions to #parrot. 20:52
Other thoughts on motivating more development, if that's even possible or desirable?
20:53 Andy joined
tcurtis Coke's suggestion for a more concrete task list(or better publicizing an existing one) would be helpful, if possible. 20:53
chromatic Suppose I took a random item off of the Performance Improvement page and made a series of concrete, small tasks. 20:54
Would people do them?
Util Anything that the R team says they need from Parrot to achieve part of Rakudo/Perl 6 specs would be motivating for myself, and probably others. 20:55
mikehh We can but try
Util Performance++ 20:56
chromatic trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/FixingP...eOverrides
I'll work on that today.
Anything else?
Coke nice to get the bug stopping the profiling tool from being helpful fixed. 20:57
cotto_work Coke, it's on my todo list 20:58
Util cotto_work++
chromatic Suggestions for tasks for this week?
Coke oh. q1q.
chromatic The crickets suggest moving on to questions. 21:00
Coke?
cotto_work need to take off for a meeting. other questions can go first
Coke how does PIRC fit into lorito? Is it worth pursuing still? 21:01
(if so, I'll add integrating it as a config option into my queue.)
if not, we should delete it.
Util If PIRC is still the annointed successor to IMCC, then quite worth pursuing. 21:02
chromatic Seems like a race between PIRATE and PIRC.
darbelo Coke: It needs a champion to make it work.
Util Doh! Forgot about PIRATE
Tene A new PIR compiler is wanted, yes.
Whether it's pirc or not isn't important. 21:03
pirc isn't far off of working, IMO
darbelo OTOH, plobsing seemed to think he could make IMCC suck less at some point.
Coke Tene: yes, we've heard that, but no one has integrated it yet. =-)
Util Many improvements to Parrot are not considered, just because IMCC is such a bear to work in.
Coke right. so we have at least 3 paths forward even sans lorito.
Util: I have heard the same about pirc. Only one person was championing the code base there. 21:04
21:04 whiteknight joined
Coke so it sounds like it's not ruled out. I'll keep it on the list, then. 21:04
chromatic Other questions?
cotto sent some suggestions for modifications to our deprecation policy to the list. 21:06
Does anyone have comments?
Tene I like it. 21:07
Coke That's pretty much what I had in mind when I carped about last minute changes to 2.6
+1 from me.
mikehh +1
chromatic Including the "This never worked, why are we supporting it?" part? 21:08
tcurtis I also like it, though I don't think I really have been around long enough to have any clue about deprecation policy.
Coke chromatic: yes. the only issue there is we need a concensus on when that is the case. 21:09
but if a sketch full of parrots says so, it must be true.
whiteknight chromatic: especially that part
chromatic Then +1 from me
Util +1
chromatic Any disagreements? 21:10
Sounds like rough consensus here then. 21:11
Other questions?
Coke reminder: R* release in 2 days.
chromatic So far, they haven't needed any urgent fixes in weeks. 21:12
Let's wrap this up then. Make tasks, everyone! 21:16
21:27 bubaflub left
cotto_work too late for me? 21:30
well crud 21:31
22:24 NotFound left 22:26 atrodo left 23:25 Util_ joined, PerlJam joined

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