dalek ast/6.c-errata: ab52151 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S06-advanced/wrap.t:
Avoid assuming too much about internals of throws-like

The exception thrown depends on internal implementation of the testing function if one is used to contain the exception.
  See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/743#...-210489723
for more information.
00:10
Zoffix I got t/spec/S32-exceptions/misc.t failing in 6.c-errata 00:21
gist.github.com/zoffixznet/3b8edc1...d5673d929a
Ah, that just looks like the recent addition of Exception::JSOn or whatever it was 00:22
dalek kudo/nom: 547fc51 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/Test.pm6:
Revert to using multi-dispatch for subtest

Reverts commit 9e4760256647336d8e5b2a3dc71d01c0f0485a3e That commit was introduced to prevent a spectest failure in 6.c-errata, however, the failure was due to the test itself assuming too much about the internal implementation of the throws-like test that was used to contain the exception.
The test has now been fixed in
  github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ab521517a4
00:26
ast/6.c-errata: 9c1ba24 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
Port 2ab7a1f67d3 fix to 6.c-errata

We now have Exceptions:: class, which the test naively assumes we don't. Fix test to avoid such assumption.
00:30
timotimo kind of strange to have it named Exception::JSON? 00:32
like, the test shouldn't expect we don't, it's just those are usually called X::Something?
Zoffix The class is not *an* Exception but rather a way to output exceptions 00:33
timotimo oh!
that new thing! yes, indeed
Zoffix Like, it changes the regular output to being output as JSON
timotimo yes, i remember it now
it's fantastic!
Zoffix \o/
m: my $sig = :(| ($a) = 2); 00:35
camelia rakudo-moar 547fc5: OUTPUTĀ«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>ā¤Cannot put default on anonymous slurpy parameterā¤at <tmp>:1ā¤------> my $sig = :(| ($a) = 2ā);ā¤ expecting any of:ā¤ constraintā¤Ā»
Zoffix Is it really anonymous? Is it really slurpy?
I'm not exactly sure what that sig is meant to be, but a side glance at github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f096...7462fa65f7 seems to suggest it's muting tests that indicate a commit that's breaking something. 00:36
(they're also failing in 6.c-errata now)
timotimo the slurpy parameter there is anonymous 00:37
Zoffix So the tests should be removed?
timotimo yeah, i believe it was a recent fix to make that error happen
for all slurpy parameters
Zoffix cool
timotimo they are not allowed to have defaults now
shouldn't have been allowed to in the first place
timotimo BBL 00:44
Zoffix committable6, HEAD dd [ $*PERL.compiler.version ] 00:56
committable6 Zoffix, Ā¦Ā«HEADĀ»: [v2016.07.1.220.g.6.e.84.a.5.e]
Zoffix .tell AlexDaniel looks like committable6 never recovered from my tag fiasco 00:57
yoleaux2 Zoffix: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
AlexDaniel .
yoleaux2 00:57Z <Zoffix> AlexDaniel: looks like committable6 never recovered from my tag fiasco
Zoffix m: dd [ $*PERL.compiler.version ]
camelia rakudo-moar 547fc5: OUTPUTĀ«[v2016.08.1.21.g.547.fc.51]ā¤Ā»
AlexDaniel Zoffix: no, it's because we were working on some things
Zoffix Ah, OK :)
AlexDaniel mostly compression
dalek ast/6.c-errata: fb53102 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S06-signature/introspection.t:
Remove bogus tests

The tests assumed defaults on slurpies are a thing, but they were giving MoarVM errors when used. In
  github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/56...4b2082626c
those errors were caught earlier and now cause Rakudo Exceptions to be thrown, which causes these tests to fail.
01:01
ast: 8627307 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S06-signature/introspection.t:
Remove bogus tests

The tests assumed defaults on slurpies are a thing, but they were giving MoarVM errors when used. In
  github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/56...4b2082626c
those errors were caught earlier and now cause Rakudo Exceptions to be thrown, which causes these tests to fail.
01:02
[Coke] zoff; Changing errata tests should not be done litely make sure you have buyin from somebody
Which you may have already doneI'm just going off the commit message 01:03
Zoffix Yeah, I've confirmed with timotimo: <Zoffix> So the tests should be removed?
<timotimo> yeah, i believe it was a recent fix to make that error happen
Basically, even though the test passed, when someone actually tried to use that sig in a subroutine, they'd get a MoarVM error. The test never went that deep and merely used the Signature object, calling .perl on it, so the test was passing, even though that signature was impossible to be actually used on a routine 01:04
[Coke] Okay it's a big enough thing that you should check with more than just one personIt's basically changing the contract we have with our users about what six CS
what 6 c is
Zoffix OK 01:05
[Coke] ut I am going to bed ZZ :)
Zoffix ....and now, instead of waiting for it to get all the way down to MoarVM, we throw in Rakudo. 01:11
Zoffix loves async text chat in that you can finish a thought you stared 7m ago and it won't seem weird :D
MasterDuke lizmat: some interesting performance swings for .comb here: gist.github.com/Whateverable/0956f...4340525bca 01:45
AlexDaniel lizmat: to make it clearer: this commit made things much slower github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/977797f 01:57
lizmat: if I see it correctly, then this .comb is in sink context, yet no warning is thrown. Weird synthetic thing, not sure if there is any actual code suffering from this slowdown, but perhaps it's worth taking a look 02:03
dalek kudo/nom: 597052f | lizmat++ | lib/TAP.pm6:
Lose to more returns in TAP.pm6
05:00
brrt good * #perl6 05:30
yoleaux2 19 Aug 2016 10:55Z <Zoffix> brrt: might be worth mentioning to jnthn++ as he's been working on making stuff like that unhang. My test runs stopped hanging after that work. Never had anything flap or hang for quite a while.
19 Aug 2016 11:18Z <jnthn> brrt: About said hanging test, can you give me more info? I had that running a couple of hundred times in a row on a loaded system without issue after my last round of fixes...
brrt early, in european zone
ohhai, yeah, i'll try it out
it may be that my moar is far behind
travis-ci Rakudo build errored. Elizabeth Mattijsen 'Remove unneeded returns from TAP.pm6 05:41
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/154801258 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/7...be22fd2e9d
buggable ā˜¢ [travis build above] Build log missing from at least one job. Check results manually.
[TuxCM] This is Rakudo version 2016.08.1-22-g597052f built on MoarVM version 2016.08 06:00
csv-ip5xs 10.064
test 15.281
test-t 7.297
csv-parser 16.045
brrt is currently retesting with latest moar 06:18
travis-ci Rakudo build errored. Elizabeth Mattijsen 'Oops, wrong order of checks, Brad Gilbert++' 06:41
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/154815880 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/3...cc1ca41e47
buggable ā˜¢ [travis build above] Build log missing from at least one job. Check results manually. 06:42
brrt .tell jnthn gist.github.com/anonymous/6c4b5eec...ab423316b6 06:44
yoleaux2 brrt: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
brrt sorry, i broked it again
dalek kudo/nom: 945b916 | lizmat++ | t/harness6:
Remove superfluous returns from t/harness6
07:28
[TuxCM] gist.github.com/anonymous/e62ee2c3...e1147803d8 07:52
I need a bit of NativeCall help there
Cannot invoke object with invocation handler in this context 07:53
in method CALL-ME at /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/moar-blead-nom/install/share/perl6/sources/24DD121B5B4774C04A7084827BFAD92199756E03 (NativeCall) line 328
in block <unit> at nc-c.pl line 67
which in the gitst is line 51
[TuxCM] wants to see if I can get libcsv3 working with NativeCall in perl6
nine One can now install Inline::Perl5 with just git clone [email@hidden.address] && cd Inline-Perl5 && perl6 configure.pl6 --test --install 08:15
Without needing panda or zef or any other dependencies :)
See mst's talk on Friday for why this is useful ;) 08:16
JimmyZ [TuxCM]: as per 08:20
[TuxCM]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...pointers.t
[TuxCM]: you may want Pointer
[TuxCM] JimmyZ, that caused an interesting change :) 08:34
> ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling: 08:35
Undeclared routines:
hello used at line 1. Did you mean 'shell'?
world used at line 1. Did you mean 'words'?
those are *runtime* errors (repeating 50000 times)
dalek kudo/nom: 8a95de1 | leont++ | / (3 files):
Restore "Convert create-moar-runner to perl 6"

This reverts commit 66883a40e396c23253a14708f039317beb33301c.
09:22
kudo/nom: 9ccd848 | lizmat++ | / (3 files):
Merge pull request #846 from Leont/less5

Restore "Convert create-moar-runner to perl 6"
mst DOH 09:37
if you add a generated file, remember to add it to 'make clean' or confusion may ensue
nine: um 09:40
p5helper.c:237:5: warning: value computed is not used [-Wunused-value]
/usr/bin/ld: /home/matthewt/local/perl-5.24.0/lib/5.24.0/x86_64-linux/CORE/libperl.a(op.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `PL_opargs' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
/home/matthewt/local/perl-5.24.0/lib/5.24.0/x86_64-linux/CORE/libperl.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
argh, hang on, did I forget to build multiplicity or whatever
aha, -Dusershrplib 09:41
as documented that I missed
geekosaur it's kinda broken that it even tries to treat a static library as a shared library 10:05
then again I should probably expect that; on 32-bit linux you could actually get away with that, and it's probably wired into dlopen or something and was never disabled even though it can never work on 64-bit
mst yeah, I'm not sure why it's using libperl.a rather than libperl.so 10:14
but I'm trying to just crowbar everything into working right now, not asking why ;)
argh 10:45
nine: you about?
nine mst: now 10:54
mst nine: found it 10:55
RepositoryRegistry uses nqp::backend unless RKAUDO_PREFIX is set 10:56
so also looks in the fucking moar dirs
mst tries with the env var for the moment 10:57
oh, wait, the env var isn't actually the prefix 11:00
because that would be helpful
[TuxCM] lizmat, here it is ... 11:04
This is Rakudo version 2016.08.1-25-g9ccd848 built on MoarVM version 2016.08
csv-ip5xs 10.061
test 15.519
test-t 7.338
csv-parser 16.431
lizmat yeah, so no difference reallly: if any a negative difference :-(
nine lizmat: nadim's happy now :)
lizmat nine: cool :-) 11:05
travis-ci Rakudo build errored. Zoffix Znet 'Revert to using multi-dispatch for subtest 13:35
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/154913908 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/a...7fc5154cd2
buggable ā˜  [travis build above] 2 builds failed. NONE due to the timeout 13:36
lizmat jnthn: any idea why this doesn't compile in the setting, but outside it does? 13:38
multi sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(array[int] \SELF, Int $pos) is raw {
nqp::atposref_i(SELF,nqp::unbox_i($pos))
}
jnthn Did you place it after class array? 13:40
yoleaux2 06:44Z <brrt> jnthn: gist.github.com/anonymous/6c4b5eec...ab423316b6
jnthn (It depends on the ^parameterize method inside of class array, so just pre-declaring it ain't enough) 13:41
lizmat jnthn: I did 13:47
ok, lemme check that later, now watching rakudo running on a SailfishOS phone :-) 13:48
jnthn :D
TheLemonMan lizmat, can you give a look at #127803 ? it looks like something you'd fix in the blink of an eye :) 14:00
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=127803
[Coke] RT: 1365; @LARRY: 18; BOOTSTRAP: 4; BUG: 478; BUILD: 10; CONC: 47; DOCS: 1; GLR: 4; IO: 15; JVM: 68; LTA: 116; MATH: 5; NATIVECALL: 15; NEW: 857; NYI: 89; OO: 7; OSX: 5; PERF: 26; POD: 18; PRECOMP: 12; REGEX: 29; REPL: 4; RFC: 50; SEGV: 37; SPESH: 1; STAR: 5; TESTNEEDED: 30; TODO: 10; UNI: 30; UNTAGGED: 317; WEIRD: 3 14:03
dalek kudo/nom: 6ae6ecb | niner++ | / (2 files):
Make Distribution::Path handle native libraries correctly

With this change we can now use it in install-dist.pl and get rid of the prototype.
14:06
lizmat TheLemonMan: looking at it (#127803) 14:25
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=127803
[Coke] RT: 1365; @LARRY: 18; BOOTSTRAP: 4; BUG: 485; BUILD: 11; CONC: 49; DOCS: 1; GLR: 4; IO: 15; JVM: 68; LTA: 117; MATH: 6; NATIVECALL: 15; NEW: 850; NYI: 90; OO: 7; OSX: 6; PERF: 26; POD: 18; PRECOMP: 12; REGEX: 34; REPL: 4; RFC: 53; SEGV: 37; SPESH: 1; STAR: 6; TESTNEEDED: 32; TODO: 10; UNI: 30; UNTAGGED: 296; WEIRD: 3 14:29
^^ untagged under 300
timotimo so many tags :S
note my much improved errors for the p6opaque error! 14:30
i made that! *proud*
TheLemonMan clear error messages for p6opaques *giggles*
timotimo :D 14:31
lizmat: my first guess is it's trying to access the result of the code block classify gets and assumes it's a List for some reason, but really it gets a junction that doesn't autothread (for some reason) 14:32
[Coke] timotimo++
timotimo yay
pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:01
er, #perl6-dev
timotimo hey pm!
dalek kudo/nom: 7fa2ba7 | lizmat++ | src/core/Hash.pm:
Fix RT #127803

Definitely a case of premature optimization :-)
15:10
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=127803
TheLemonMan lizmat++ :D 15:15
MetaZoffix pmichaud: would you say this can be implemented right now, without waiting for 6.d too? (Providing it doesn't break anything in roast) github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master...efinedness 15:39
basically adding a //= for signature defaults that would assign the default if the parameter is absent or is not defined
MetaZoffix is now a proud owner of Perl6.Fail :D 15:41
To host my bug app at i.imgur.com/lqKvZpi.png 15:43
lizmat MetaZoffix++ 15:45
jdv79 MetaZoffix++++ 15:50
hoelzro MetaZoffix++ looks fancy! 15:58
pmichaud MetaZoffix: I will look 19:12
[Coke]: ping 19:13
[Coke] pong 19:14
pmichaud have a moment? I feel like I need a little recalibration on the current state of things
Looking on your latest comment on b14828b (about the /b /B stuff), you say "I've no issues with it going into 6.c". What exactly does that mean? 19:15
I mean, how does something "go into 6.c"? As I understand it, 6.c was released in December.
jnthn It doesn't.
Everything that's new now will go into either a 6.c.1 or a 6.d
Aside from stuff we classify as errata, 6.c is "immutable" 19:16
pmichaud Right, that's the perspective I've had.
And that's part of what's been confusing me about this particular set of tickets/threads.
jnthn I suspect what it really means is "can we put this in *now* as opposed to waiting for us to have the machinary to make it only happen in the presence of an explicit `use 6.d.a` and not happen with a `use 6.c`" 19:17
pmichaud Hmm.
jnthn And I suspect the "go into 6.c" wording is being used as shorthand for that rather more unwieldy thing.
pmichaud Well, does "use 6.c" mean that untested things are guaranteed to work the same as they did with Rakudo's corresponding release? I would hope not. 19:18
jnthn No
That's near-impossible to achieve.
pmichaud Agreed. 19:19
jnthn I attempted to document this stuff clearly at some point. :)
pmichaud So, even in the presence of "use 6.c", Rakudo should be able to have features that are outside of the literal 6.c specification, yes?
[Coke] I specifically meant "add a spectest in 6.c"
which was incorrect; should have been 6.c.1
but it was in response to your comment about it not having to wait until 6.d 19:20
pmichaud Hmm.
[Coke] my mental setup for this is based on jnthn++'s doc.
MetaZoffix If there aren't any use 6.c or use 6.d, what does the user get? The latest and greatest that they have installed?
pmichaud What's the url for jnthn++'s doc? I should read that. 19:21
jnthn pmichaud: gist.github.com/jnthn/c10742f9d51da80226fa is what I wrote up fwiw
pmichaud danke
jnthn And we really could do with it living somewhere better than a gist
MetaZoffix huggable: perl6 versions :is: gist.github.com/jnthn/c10742f9d51da80226fa
huggable MetaZoffix, Added perl6 versions as gist.github.com/jnthn/c10742f9d51da80226fa
pmichaud MetaZoffix: In answer to your earlier question of "can we implement signature attributes based on defaults now?", my response would be that there's nothing to prevent it from being implemented. 19:22
in my mental model (which exists before reading jnthn++'s document), it's normal and even expected for compilers to lead the language specification. Language specification is retrospective, not prospective. 19:23
whether it should be part of the language (or compiler) is a slightly different topic... but a compiler doesn't have to wait for a language feature to be approved before implementing it.
MetaZoffix pmichaud: ok. Do I need someone else's review of that feature (from the language design perspective) or are you OKing it and I should start working on it?
pmichaud MetaZoffix: working code and rough consensus is the general model, I think. 19:24
MetaZoffix Cool. I'll make a PR for review when I get a chance.
pmichaud it's more ideal if it can be done as a module first, though.
MetaZoffix Yeah, I'll do that, since that was my original plan anyway :) (and a blog post to go with it too)
pmichaud After studying a bit about language specification at a meta level, and looking at the history, I became convinced that language spec should be retrospective. As a more relevant example -- Internet standards normally ratify what has already been done and proven by implementations, they don't map out the features yet-to-be-tried. Or, when they are mapping out a possible future, they're termed "RFC" and 19:27
timotimo all we have is the "errata"
pmichaud not "standards" or "specifications".
timotimo ooes, didn't scroll
pmichaud I particularly wouldn't want to have "6.d" be a list of proposed features that are adopted prior to implementation. That heads down the (wrong) path taken by C99, for example. 19:28
jnthn pmichaud: My doc was in many ways influenced by your language specs talk fwiw :)
pmichaud jnthn: I suspect that to be the case, but you may have added insights or choices that I hadn't reached yet. :)
jnthn pmichaud: I see releases as snapshots in time for passing spectests :)
s/for/of/ 19:29
pmichaud jnthn: we're in complete agreement there :)
jnthn Dinner time here, back later. :)
pmichaud Now that I'm having a chance to look into it more deeply -- that's the dissonance I feel in reading the v6d.pod in general. 19:30
The whole "plans for 6.d" approach feels wrong. 19:31
it should be "plans for Perl 6", and how strongly we feel about them.
if there's a consensus that a particular feature would be good for Perl 6 (or Rakudo), it can proceed to implementation in Rakudo or other compilers.
But we shouldn't tie it to prospective future language specifications *until* it's had a chance to be vetted in implementation somewhere. 19:32
timotimo we'll still have a 6.d "beta" phase 19:33
where you're not supposed to rely on how exactly the 6.d features behave
but if you don't "use 6.d" you won't get any of them at all
is how i understood it, anyway
MetaZoffix We have 54 RFC tickets: jsfiddle.net/2bsj7ecr/1/ 19:34
pmichaud timotimo: that feels completely backwards to me
if language ("6.d") is retrospective, I don't see how one can do a "use 6.d" for something that doesn't exist yet. 19:35
MetaZoffix (to answer my earlier question: "Any Perl 6 program or module that does not declare a language version will be interpreted as expecting to run on the latest non-draft version supported by the implementation") 19:36
timotimo i bet someone else can explain my thought better than me in any case
pmichaud MetaZoffix: I don't understand "latest non-draft version" 19:37
it doesn't fit with my mental model
MetaZoffix pmichaud: "(for example, it could get 6.c, 6.c.1, 6.d, or 6.d.1 - but never 6.d.a, 6.e.b, etc.) "
pmichaud what exactly is a "non-draft version" of the language?
oops
MetaZoffix I'm guessing 6.d.a would be the "beta" version that timotimo mentioned
timotimo ah! yes, letters
pmichaud I mean, what exactly is a "draft version" of the language?
timotimo "dude we should totally disallow \b in regexes, k?" 19:38
gfldex 6.d.a reads "six . dee . alpha" for me
pmichaud if the language is defined as a snapshot of spectests... what's a "draft version" of that? 19:39
timotimo a rakudo would ship with a 6.c spec test snapshot and a 6.d spec test snapshot that we're not yet committed to support in the future
MetaZoffix pmichaud: a version that can be used in the wild by implementation to see if it's fine to use, before actually being finalized and released is my guess
pmichaud let me finish reading jnthn++'s document. 19:40
it talks about draft versions.
MetaZoffix does same
Yeah, my quote was from it
pmichaud my first guess: "Any Perl 6 program or module that does not declare a language version will be interpreted as expecting to run on the implementation's default version." 19:41
To me, it could be draft. I shouldn't have to explicitly declare a draft version to use new features of an implementation. 19:42
MetaZoffix eh, won't have time to finish it. Need to pack things up before commutting
\o
[Coke] pmichaud: in other news, I assigned an RT about rakudo.org to you that I have no idea how to fix. 19:45
pmichaud [Coke]: just now?
[Coke] today
one sec.
pmichaud #128664 19:46
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=128664
[Coke] rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128664
yes.
pmichaud looking. 19:50
[Coke] danke! 19:55
I couldn't find it on disk or in wp
pmichaud Now fixed.
[Coke] woot! 19:56
pmichaud Dashboard -> Appearance -> Header, Select Image, (re)load the image from the media library.
Apparently the url was originally set when the site was still "rakudoperl.org" and had never been updated.
[Coke] oh wow, wouldn't ahve figured that ,yah 19:57
pmichaud It took me a bit to find it as well.
I just happened to notice "Header" in the appearance menu and said "hey, what's that?"
otherwise I was randoming looking around and grepping odd things as well.
anyway, now fixed. :)
[Coke] down to 1364 tickets! ;) 20:02
pmichaud I have to go do other things for a while -- I'll re-read the jnthn++ versioning doc and make my comments from there. Thanks everyone for your patience. :) 20:03
[Coke] pmichaud: thanks for yours. :) 20:04
gfldex m: sub foo(:$where = -> $p { $p // 'default'}){};
camelia ( no output )