[Tux] This is Rakudo version 2016.08.1-48-gf2df2c5 built on MoarVM version 2016.08 07:03
csv-ip5xs 10.233
test 15.488
test-t 7.439
csv-parser 16.548
rm -rf /tmp/*-p5helper.so
(sorry 'bout that last line)
lizmat wonders how simple simple-regex.com would be in Perl 6 07:27
breakfast&
nine Shameless repost of #perl6-toolchain material: github.com/perl6/toolchain-bikeshe...r/build.md 07:47
stmuk_ it might be worth analysing the Build.pm files currently in the ecosystem 08:15
arnsholt nine: I think I'd argue for the run parameter accepting a list as well 08:16
stmuk_ I suspect many might resemble github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/Build.pm and basically only copy files in place
nine stmuk_: yes, already started doing that 08:17
stmuk_ nine++ # one step ahead 08:18
nine stmuk_: I do hope that actually no other Build.pm file does what doc's does. Because doc's makes a whole lot of flawed assumptions. Like into which repo it's going to be installed. That this repo is a Repository::Locally at least. That the repo doesn't have a doc directory. That the repo is writable. 08:20
It's actually no custom build step at all. It's installation.
stmuk_: I do hope you know that I mean well by criticising :) 08:22
stmuk_ :) 08:23
nine p6doc certainly shows that we are still missing a lot of infrastructure. And that I didn't give documentation any thought at all :/
stmuk_: you could actually install the shipped .pod6 files as resources and access them via %?RESOURCES. That way you can get rid of a lot of poking in CURI's internals. 08:26
stmuk_ the docs are basically just S22 I think? 08:27
nine S22 doesn't seem to mention docs at all? 08:29
stmuk_ I meant general %?RESOURCES docs. I've seen no info about installing .pod6 at all 08:30
nine Yes. You could put them into resources/docs/ and add them to the META.info's resources list: "resources": ["doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6", ...] 08:32
Then access it via %?RESOURCES<doc><Language><5to6-nutshell.pod6> 08:35
stmuk_ would I have to list each file explicitly? all 354?
nine Yes. But I'm quite sure you can script that :) 08:36
stmuk_ I'm prefer being able to put directories or wildcards in 08:38
dynmically generating a META6.json each time a file is added means the file gets very long and missed entries highly likely 08:39
git commit -m"sorry I forgot to update META6.json again"
nine Possible. But right now you do have a couple of bugs in your Build.pm and p6doc. All of which would be fixed by moving to RESORUCES. 08:42
stmuk_ the core p6doc files are probably a special case anyway due to the number of files 08:45
the p6doc problem was basically caused by moving the .pod from under 'lib' to 'doc' in the source tree 08:48
nine So far 46 commits added files to the doc/ directory 08:50
stmuk_ cd doc/doc && find . -type f | wc -l 09:03
296
nine A commit can add multiple files 09:06
I used git log -p doc | egrep -- '^commit|--- /dev/null' | uniq | grep null | wc -l 09:07
stmuk_ anyway my point was that p6doc contains a large number of .pod6 files and is likely to have a large number added 09:09
maybe an external MANIFEST file would be better? 09:10
lizmat commute& 09:11
nine stmuk_: that would need updating, too? 09:18
stmuk_ true 09:20
anyway quickly clicking through modules.perl6.org suggests most people don't use Build.pm and its mostly used to check presence of libfoo.so or .ddl so p6doc is probably a special case 09:22
and most aren't using .pod6 but markdown anyway 09:34
Zoffix m: my $t = BEGIN now; sub infix:<ā™„> ($,$) {}; sub infix:<ā™„ā™„> ($,$) {}; sub infix:<ā™„ā™„ā™„> ($,$) {}; sub infix:<ā™„ā™„ā™„ā™„> ($,$) {}; sub infix:<ā™„ā™„ā™„ā™„ā™„> ($,$) {}; say now - $t 10:23
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«1.9912729ā¤Ā»
Zoffix nine, I'm unsure why the Color ops gave you that result... custom ops still seem slow, and I recall people telling me they won't ever be fast because we have to mutate the grammar for them
nine Zoffix: is it possible that precomp helps there? 10:25
Zoffix Ohhh 10:26
Yeah, that's probably it.
(they also are now fast on my box). nine++
dalek p: 7a3bbc1 | (Pawel Murias)++ | tools/build/ (2 files):
[js] Add a .nqp suffix on a intermediate build target.
p: 1b70b2a | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/HLL/Backend.nqp:
[js] Fix the missing v8-profiler error message.
p: 84c5f40 | (Pawel Murias)++ | tools/build/ (2 files):
[js] Fix typo.
p: 8c76bca | (Pawel Murias)++ | / (8 files):
[js] Build a nqp-js-on-js package rather then stuffing stuff into node_modules.
Zoffix Used to be 20 seconds, according to the module docs :) Now just fraction of a second 10:27
Zoffix passes around a round of ++
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); dd E.keys; 12:19
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«()ā¤Ā»
gfldex that feels wrong
jnthn m: enum E(<a b c>); dd E.enums.keys 12:22
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«("a", "c", "b").Seqā¤Ā»
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); dd E::.keys; 12:25
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«("a", "c", "b").Seqā¤Ā»
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); dd E::.values; 12:26
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«(E::a, E::c, E::b).Seqā¤Ā»
gfldex that's what I would suspect .keys to default to
jnthn Would break the ".keys on a type object returns the empty list" consistency we have now, though 12:29
gfldex enums are special in that they are always type objects and never turn into an instance 12:30
jnthn uhh 12:31
Enum values are instances of the enum type
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); dd E ~~ Enumeration;
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«Bool::Falseā¤Ā»
jnthn m: enum E <a b c>; say a.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«(E)ā¤Ā»
gfldex and that looks buggy
jnthn m: enum E <a b c>; say a ~~ Enumeration
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«Falseā¤Ā»
jnthn Consistent at least... 12:32
m: enum E <a b c>; say a.^roles
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«Method 'roles' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::EnumHOW'ā¤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1ā¤ā¤Ā»
gfldex how do I tell that a type object is an enum with Rakudo?
jnthn Oh, same as you tell if a class is a class etc: match against hte meta-type
m: enum E < a b c >; say E.HOW ~~ Metamodel::EnumHOW
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«Trueā¤Ā»
gfldex ~~ Enumeration looks correcter :) 12:33
jnthn Why? There's no ~~ Class or ~~ Role or ~~ Subset. 12:34
That's just confusing space and meta-space.
timotimo don't drop your pins on my territory! 12:36
moritz I never quite understood what role Enumeration played anyway 12:37
jnthn moritz: Place to shove common methods that an enumeration type has, really
moritz jnthn: then I don't understand why the enum type type-checks false against Enumeration 12:38
jnthn: for example GrammarHOW adds Grammar as a default parent class; I'd expect a similar mechanism for GrammarHOW
but it seems that instead Perl6::Action calls trait_mod:<does> to fudge in Enumeration 12:39
jnthn moritz: Yeah, we fudge it in at the moment. It's a kind of "do we really want to do it this way?" hedge :)
timotimo you mean EnumHOW :)
moritz yes 12:40
moritz ConfusedHOW
jnthn I don't believe S12 or any of the design docs mention an Enumeration role
OTOH, S12's enums design has always been kinda a wish list of things enums should do rather than a model for how they should be implemented. Granted it's better now than it has been at times in the past... :) 12:41
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); sub f($e where * ~~ Metamodel::EnumHOW){ say 'oi' }; f E
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$e'ā¤ in sub f at <tmp> line 1ā¤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1ā¤ā¤Ā»
jnthn If we decide we're keeping it done with an Enumeration role then we should make it answer True there and make .^roles work, anyways.
where .HOW ~~
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); sub f(Metamodel::EnumHOW Ā§e){ say 'oi' }; f E 12:42
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>ā¤Malformed parameterā¤at <tmp>:1ā¤------> num E(<a b c>); sub f(Metamodel::EnumHOWā Ā§e){ say 'oi' }; f Eā¤ expecting any of:ā¤ constraintā¤ formal parameterā¤Ā»
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); sub f(Metamodel::EnumHOW $e){ say 'oi' }; f E
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>ā¤Calling f(E) will never work with declared signature (Perl6::Metamodel::EnumHOW $e)ā¤at <tmp>:1ā¤------> b f(Metamodel::EnumHOW $e){ say 'oi' }; āf Eā¤Ā»
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); sub f($e where *.HOW ~~ Metamodel::EnumHOW){ say 'oi' }; f E
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$e'ā¤ in sub f at <tmp> line 1ā¤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1ā¤ā¤Ā»
gfldex m: enum E(<a b c>); sub f($e where .HOW ~~ Metamodel::EnumHOW){ say 'oi' }; f E
camelia rakudo-moar f2df2c: OUTPUTĀ«oiā¤Ā»
gfldex it's one of those "you need to know that to guess it" things (also ENODOC) 12:43
all I wanted to do was to write a short blog post but instead I learned new things :( 12:44
usecase in case you wonder: gist.github.com/ede35a3da3f2c0cb51...78f2efea7b 12:45
dalek kudo/nom: 76a86d4 | MasterDuke17++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
Fix RT #118607

Give the same suggestion for a sub redeclaration as for a method.		 13:16
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=118607
dalek kudo/nom: 8e5a1aa | MasterDuke17++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
Make sure message is returned when $.what is not a routine
kudo/nom: 5dba970 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
Merge pull request #854 from MasterDuke17/RT118607

216e3aa | (Brock Wilcox)++ | src/Perl6/Compiler.nqp: Remove legacy fallback repl methods
kudo/nom: 1d2351f | (Brock Wilcox)++ | src/core/REPL.pm:
Extract toplevel control flag check for consistency
kudo/nom: 68443fe | (Zoffix Znet)++ | src/ (2 files):
Merge pull request #853 from awwaiid/repl-cleanup

REPL Cleanup
travis-ci Rakudo build passed. Zoffix Znet 'Merge pull request #854 from MasterDuke17/RT118607 14:50
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/156218564 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/f...ba970cadb9
MetaZoffix IMO we should have some sort of "policy" for RFC tickets; specifically, what would be the criteria for closing them when the proposed feature has NOT been implemented. There are 55 RFCs right now and I see some going back to 2009 perl6.fail/t/RFC 15:50
I like Mojolicious's way, where users are actively reminded to give feedback on RFCs and if none happens the RFC is closed simply due to lack of interest. 15:51
mst "closed without prejudice" is a good approach, I think 15:54
Mojo is excellent at the 'closed' part and variable on the rest
but I can hardly claim superiority on the front of 'level of cranky' so ;)
[Coke] I am strongly opposed to closing tickets because they're old and we haven't commented on them. 15:56
might work for a business product, but in our case, it's likely that none of our volunteers have ever reviewed it.
MetaZoffix [Coke]: but what if they have? At which point can an RFC be closed? 15:58
[Coke] if the dev team says "nope, ain't doing it"
or "yes, we did it."
MetaZoffix What's a "team" in that sense?
JimmyZ who commit the most core code 15:59
:P
[Coke] are you asking who the dev team is, or which subset of the dev team is sufficient to decide?
MetaZoffix [Coke]: how many dev team members are sufficient for a decision that an RFC ticket can be closed. 16:00
nine Usually decisions are made by whoever feels confident enough to make one.
[Coke] because those are both great questions. Is it a language decision? then @LARRY should be involved. is it an implementation detail ? maybe different people.
MetaZoffix And I have a concrete example that I considered for an hour and wrote my feedback that is a -1 vote: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=129131
[Coke] MetaZoffix: I'm not making that decision.
MetaZoffix Who are @LARRY? I know there's Ti mToady and pm ichaud. Anyone else? 16:01
[Coke] (about what's the minimum) 16:02
as for your ticket, which is so new I had not seen it until you mentioned it here, I agree with your notes.
Is pmichaud still on the list? Ok.
MetaZoffix ĀÆ\_(惄)_/ĀÆ 16:03
[Coke] Damian might want to be on that list.
maybe jnthn
maybe a bunch of us. I dunno. This dev team hasn't historically worked in a hierarchy "THIS IS HOW THINGS ARE DONE" way. 16:04
s/chy/chical/
MetaZoffix heh
nine MetaZoffix: FWIW I'd +1 rejecting the ticket
[Coke] Zoffix: you didn't cc the mailing list on your well thought out reply on 129131 16:05
so I doubt any of the dev team would have even known about it if you hadn't dropped the link here.
MetaZoffix [Coke]: I think I did, I just hit "Reply". I've replied and then joined IRC, so maybe it just hasn't propagated yet.
[Coke] no. it would say on the message if you had cc'd the list. 16:06
did you check the box?
"
Click to Toggle Cc of [email@hidden.address]
you have to click that, or it's a reply just in the ticketing system.
MetaZoffix For me, it's pre-ticked, but it's not a Cc, but a Bcc: i.imgur.com/koYT9Ux.png 16:07
[Coke] ... no. that's not ticketd.
you have to click it.
it's a link with a <li> in front of it.
so when I said 'check the box' above, I mis-spoke, apologies. 16:08
...
oh, you're showing even higher above.
MetaZoffix Oh, down below... I thought the one on the top left box was enough
Hm, now that you mention it, I don't think my replies ever show up on the mailing list, but I always assumed it was because it was detecting that it was *me* replying so it didn't send an email to me
[Coke] ... maybe? I have always had to click the box.
*the link*( 16:09
MetaZoffix I'll be clicking the link from now on.
[Coke] I don't see anythign special about that ticket where I would have hope that the BCC worked.
thanks for pointing that out though, I don't think I ever saw that actual checkbox! 16:16
new roast ticket: github.com/perl6/roast/issues/147 16:23
[Coke] looks forward to zoffix's ticket dashboard incorporating /spec /roast /nqp /MoarVM et al. 16:24
er, etc.
MetaZoffix :) 16:25
timotimo oh Rt you flaming pile of garbage :) 16:27
[Coke] timotimo: serious alternates welcome at rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128520 16:28
timotimo i just mean the "click here to toggle bcc" thign 16:37
potentially that's something our admins hacked in for us?
other than this little cosmetic thing, i have no "proper"/founded criticism 16:40
hm. i got thrown onto the "front page"/"dashboard"/"whatever" after i used "log in as another user" from the ticket view
that was annoying. i think it should have led me straight back to the ticket i was viewing
but i don't have to login very often, so i don't have to do this dance much 16:41
lizmat waves from Ljubljana 16:46
dalek ast: 44779ac | MasterDuke17++ | S04-declarations/multiple.t:
Test for RT #118607

Requires Rakudo PR #854 (github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/854).		 17:06
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=118607
dalek roast: 27f56c1 | MasterDuke17++ | S04-declarations/multiple.t:
roast: Another test for the fix for RT #118607
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=118607
dalek roast:
MasterDuke r: say (0 => 1, 1 => 0).max(:by(*.value)) 18:18
camelia rakudo-moar 68443f, rakudo-jvm cd19db: OUTPUTĀ«1 => 0ā¤Ā»
MasterDuke r: say (0 => 1, 1 => 0).max(*.value)
camelia rakudo-moar 68443f, rakudo-jvm cd19db: OUTPUTĀ«0 => 1ā¤Ā»
MasterDuke r: say List.can("max")[0].signature.perl 18:20
camelia rakudo-moar 68443f, rakudo-jvm cd19db: OUTPUTĀ«:($: | is raw)ā¤Ā»
MasterDuke i was looking at RT #115758, but it's pretty old
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=115758
MasterDuke r: say max :by(*.value), { 0 => 1, 1 => 0 } 18:21
camelia rakudo-moar 68443f, rakudo-jvm cd19db: OUTPUTĀ«0 => 1ā¤Ā»
MasterDuke r: say (0 => 1, 1 => 0).max(:foo(*.value)) 18:25
camelia rakudo-moar 68443f, rakudo-jvm cd19db: OUTPUTĀ«1 => 0ā¤Ā»
MasterDuke r: say max :foo(*.value), { 0 => 1, 1 => 0 }
camelia rakudo-jvm cd19db: OUTPUTĀ«Unexpected named argument 'foo' passedā¤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1ā¤ā¤Ā»
..rakudo-moar 68443f: OUTPUTĀ«Unexpected named parameter 'foo' passedā¤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1ā¤ā¤Ā»
MasterDuke huh, i also just noticed that jvm said 'named argument' and moar said 'name parameter' 18:26
git grep -i 'named parameter' | wc -l # 17 18:31
git grep -i 'named argument' | wc -l # 18
does anybody care one way or the other? i feel the wording should be the same between the backends for the same error, but what about making them all 'argument' or all 'parameter'? 18:40
nine MasterDuke: design.perl6.org/S99.html#parameter 18:46
MasterDuke nine: if i'm interpreting that correctly, 'parameters' are part of a signature, and 'arguments' are what a block/sub/etc are called with? 18:50
MetaZoffix yeah
MasterDuke in that case, i'd say the jvm error is incorrectly worded 18:51
nine yes
dalek kudo/raccoon: a54cb0f | niner++ | lib/Distribution/Builder.pm:
fixup "First steps towards a declarative build system for modules"
 18:58
kudo/raccoon: defd764 | niner++ | / (4 files):
Support different build systems

Rename Distribution::Builder to Distribution::Builder::MakeFromJSON and add Distribution::Builder as a role for build systems. The optional "builder" key in the META data is used to select the build system.
MetaZoffix I guess it can be read both ways... To me 'argument' looks more correct, since the error refers to the place where I'm passing some arguments to a thing 18:59
MasterDuke oops, that's what i meant 19:00
read them backwards
masak, moritz: do you think RT #115758 is still valid? 19:55
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=115758
[Coke] bah. have perl6 code running at $dayjob that just gave me: 20:05
Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context
Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in method dispatch:<.?> at /usr/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm line 1
timotimo uh, that's not a good backtrace 20:09
moritz try running with -ll-exception 20:11
[Coke] thought I'd need ll exception to get a trace that mentioned the CORE. 20:12
masak MasterDuke: yes, I think it's still valid. unless something has happened that's outside of the scope of what I'm reading in that ticket. but I know of no such thing. 20:14
dalek kudo/nom: b1c444f | TimToady++ | src/core/metaops.pm:
Calling unary on reduce needs arity, not count

For a reduction with a single argument, we want to look to see if the operator in question has a unary interpretation, and call that. Unfortunately, there
  are functions that can handle a unary but whose count is larger than 1,
so would not be called. Now we check .arity instead, which can still be 1
  (or 0) for such functions. (We don't test for exactly 1 since most functions
with .arity of 0 have a .count greater than 0, so allow one arg.)		 22:29
timotimo oh, is that for, like, reduce with ++? 22:31
i could imagine using .succ with produce could be a bit sugary-er than the ... operator 22:32
TimToady well, ++ is not an infix, and reduce only works on infixes 22:39
yoleaux2 23 Aug 2016 19:03Z <[Coke]> TimToady: newish sink ticket at RT #128692
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=128692
TimToady but if an infix has a degenerate case with 1 argument, it can now return what the 1-arg form produces, instead of always returning the 1 argument 22:40
[Z] still doesn't invert a single list, however, and might never, given it conflicts with one-arg semantics 22:41
timotimo oh
TimToady trouble is, zip only happens to work as inversion if the arrays in question are not ragged 22:42
timotimo amusingly enough, it still works if the arrays in question are tattered 22:43

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