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6macros: discussing the finer points of Perl 6 macros, Qtrees, and how to stay sane | irclog: irclog.perlgeek.de/6macros/today Set by moderator on 17 May 2015. |
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| moderator | 6macros: discussing the finer points of Perl 6 macros, Qtrees, and how to stay sane | irclog: irclog.perlgeek.de/6macros/today | ||
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| Ven | cobol is a funny language. | 11:13 | |
| masak | Ven: I'll be thrilled to see you tie that back into the channel topic :) | 11:22 | |
| Ven | it's all a DSL | ||
| it first reminded me of the "loop" common lisp macro. | |||
| ...which is basically its own EDSL | 11:23 | ||
| (loop for i from y if x collect bar) | |||
| in cobol, it looks like | |||
| perform varying i from 1 by 1 until i > max. STUFF. end-perform | 11:24 | ||
| I mean, it probably makes sense, "business" or something | 11:25 | ||
| but it *doesn't look like a programming language* | |||
| or the idea I have of a programming langauge | |||
| (smalltalkers would probably be mad at me for saying that :) - or anyone using a language that doesn't use "files" to store code) | 11:26 | ||
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| masak | I don't know a lot about COBOL. | 12:29 | |
| but it looks to me like a pre-Java attempt to dumb programming down until even muggles can do it. | 12:30 | ||
| which of course doesn't work. | |||
| the only programming language muggles will ever use is Excel. | |||
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| vendethiel | masak: hey, but someone embedded clojure in excel :) | 17:51 | |
| (i only now saw your answer) | |||
| C is from 1972, and cobol from 1959, that's an important point | |||
| masak | how so? | 17:55 | |
| vendethiel | things were even SLOWER back then | 17:56 | |
| the funny thing is, it looks far safer than C. | 17:57 | ||
| masak | how does that excuse the fact that COBOL was an attempt to dumb programming down? | 17:58 | |
| I don't understand :) | |||
| vendethiel | hm, not that really | 17:59 | |
| it's just that | |||
| there are no nullpointers | 18:00 | ||
| uninitialized fields | |||
| and yeah, that's a lot java-like | 18:02 | ||
| masak is not too sold on null pointers | |||
| vendethiel | well, no pointers at all | 18:03 | |
| kill all the pointers | |||
| masak | :) | ||
| vendethiel | I'm mostly looking at it because | ||
| - data divisions are actually cool | |||
| - I want to know how it looked then. I'll learn more pascal and more ada later | 18:04 | ||
| (I read a tutorial about each, but not much more yet...) | |||
| masak | vendethiel++ # interested in history | ||
| what's a "data division"? | |||
| vendethiel | but there are things that... really show their age: no variable-length strings | ||
| masak | ugh. | ||
| vendethiel | even in the "newest" standards | ||
| you can have variable-length arrays, but you have to constrain them (say, 5..25) | 18:05 | ||
| really, tho, "data divisions" are a good idea. it's better than many languages had, even later | 18:07 | ||
| it basically looks like this: | |||
| 01 record-name. | |||
| 02 inner-field TYPE. | |||
| 02 inner-record. | |||
| 03 inner-field TYPE. | |||
| you can use only ONE part, or consider them like... a struct with named unions | |||
| masak | ok, so a product of sums. | 18:20 | |
| github.com/lihaoyi/macropy | 18:21 | ||
| (anything we can learn from this one?) | |||
| news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9603174 | |||
| vendethiel | I saw macropy -- mostly while looking at scalaJS, as lihaoyi is a pretty active contributor | 18:22 | |
| wow, it gets reposted on HN every few months it seems :) | |||
| masak | :P | ||
| vendethiel | mmh | 18:55 | |
| the doc is pretty poor | 18:58 | ||
| :| | 19:01 | ||
| I don't get how it even works | |||
| I know I already tried to look | |||
| ah | 19:06 | ||
| there's a macro for string interp | |||
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