Run Perl6 Now! | ('Overview', 'Journal') | | chan now logged:
Set by theorbtwo on 28 February 2005.
ingy you can embed other formats in Kwid 00:00
buu_ I see.
I'm going to break your kneecaps if you don't start putting documentation in a single directory 00:01
Oh. I see.
You have .verbatim and .list 00:02
ingy and .comment 00:03
buu_ Right
ingy hmmm 00:04
.list is really special though...
buu_ What is up with just using .list to indent text paragraphs?
That doesn't sound good
ingy where?
buu_ ".list" 00:05
starts a region specifically for the generation of a list
or for indenting (groups of) normal paragraphs
markup defining presentation -- 00:06
Add .Formatted to your example so I understand it =/ 00:08
ingy .list should only be used for lists 00:11
buu_ Well fix the documentation
ingy .indent could be used for general indenting
buu_ perlkwid.kwid
I was quoting from it.
"or for indenting.." 00:12
Beyond that the bytecode looks pretty simple. 00:13
Why does * Check out 00:15
=Check out
Specifically, the two urls
ingy the hyper link is a (text, url) tuple 00:16
buu_ It is? 00:17
Oh. Hyperlinks get automatically turned in to that.
ingy is short for [|] 00:18
buu_ I see.
Ok, I think I'm good.
ingy the Kwid link is a (text, resource, section) tuple
buu_ Yeah I got that one. 00:19
ingy [That Thing] is short for [That Thing|/That Thing]
buu_ I see. 00:20
Is that supposed to be a relative link inside the document?
ingy but [thing] is short for [thing|thing/]
buu_ !
ingy it's an optimization!!! 00:21
buu_ hahah
Yeah, but .. .. yeah
Is that based off capitals or spaces?
ingy spaces
buu_ ah
ingy [perlre] vs [Formatting Codes] 00:22
buu_ I'm still unconvinced of the usefulness, but I think I understnad it.
ingy it's what makes sense
buu_ Yeah
ingy to link to an internal section called Codes: [/Codes]
buu_ Right 00:23
And that is the same as [Codes|/Codes] ?
ingy yep
buu_ L33t.
ingy \/3ry 00:24
buu_ heh
ingy I don't get into that detail in perlkwid
that would be in perlkwidspec
buu_ Oh great. 00:25
More complications
ingy which I have no time to write
i don't think perlkwidspec.kwid is warranted
the tests will be the spec for now
buu_ Sure it's not, I'll just ask you every time I have a question
ingy well, umm... 00:26
ingy hides
buu_ ahah
ingy perlkwid fixed
buu_ Hurray. 00:27
svpa I got only 1 question, but its probably a very frequent one asked in here; after all reading i still don't know if its worth learning perl 5 when perl 6 is coming, I mean, will it be easy to adjust to perl 6 when you know perl 5? 00:46
crysflame well 00:51
he left already
your question should be in the FAQ
never seen it asked before
svpa well, I just ordered 'Learning Perl' and 'Programming Perl' from o'reilly 00:52
hope it wasnt a bad decission
crysflame lots of perl5 people are having a hard time adjusting to perl6, but compared to the hell that C programmers will have to go through, perl5 people will have a much better *chance*
after learning javascript i have a much better *chance* at learning java 00:53
it'll still be hell
svpa is there really such a difference?
crysflame but at least i understand a bit of the precursor knowledge and strict typing and so forth
perl6 is a syntax rewrite from scratch
it happens to resemble perl5
svpa heeh :|
crysflame but it's written with perl5 in mind
have you read any perl6 code?
svpa no, but this is my first experience with real programming language (I know PHP thats it :) 00:54
crysflame damian conway wrote a series of Exegesis articles, that show perl6 code and go through it line by line, explaining it.
ingy hi crysflame
crysflame similar articles by randal schwartz for perl5 exist as well
svpa so, its gonna be just a syntax adept, or a code structured adept to perl 6?
crysflame as a perl person, they're much closer in syntax to each other than they are to any language not named perl
i dunno 00:55
svpa cause some say perl 6 is still far away....
crysflame you can write things in perl6 that are (Damn Near) Impossible in perl5
ingy svpa: honestly, it will be a good while before you can get a job writing perl6
crysflame perl6 is still far away, for some purposes
for the purpose of running short, useful scripts, it seems to be semifunctional already
pugs is a perl6 interpreter built on a language called haskell
ingy so learning perl5 is probably what you should be doing now
crysflame you don't need to know haskell to use perl6, though.
learning perl5 will make learning perl6 much, much easier
svpa ok ingy like I said ordered 2 books like 10 minutes ago from o'reilly 00:56
crysflame (esp. if you're from a language with strict typing and so forth)
hi ingy
svpa I always wonder, this might be quite off topic but
ingy crysflame: I'm writing t/kwid/parser.t now
crysflame ingy: neat
svpa how do such program languages are born?
ingy I don't know Perl6 yet
crysflame svpa: the RFC process, in this case
svpa cause, you must build it on top of some other language?
ingy so I'm writing it in the syntax I wish perl6 were 00:57
and seeing how close I am
crysflame svpa: basically the perl6 braintrust said "ask for anything you want implemented" 00:59
and then rifled through it, said what they liked and disliked, and so forth
they're still in the rifling process
each Apocalypse from larry wall is precisely the result
ingy can y'all compile src/Context.hs ? 01:12
nnunley What revision? 01:13
ingy head
nnunley I just checked out.
r350 on my side.
It compiled.
ingy I only have r342! 01:14
nnunley Slowpoke. ;)
ingy what is your repos?
I did svn up
I even deleted the file and svn up
and svn log only shows r342 01:15
ingy wait
do a svn st -uv src/ 01:16
it says 350 342
nnunley Yeap. 01:17
350 342 autrijus src/Context.hs
obra hello
nnunley obra: Hello.
ingy so src/Context.hs is at 342 :P
nnunley :P
But the tree is at 350. Same deal, different numbers. :) 01:18
Compiles just fine for me.
ghc --version ?? 01:19
nnunley The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 6.2
Riceboy^hGentoo linux.
ingy The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 6.2.1 01:20
OS X 01:21
I fixed it 01:24
I think
committed 01:27
buu Hrm 01:51
my @x=(0..10); my @y=(0..10); print @x<<+@y ? 01:52
hrm 01:53
print @x>>+<<@y; 01:54
Not working =[
Make it worky! 02:11
wolverian hmm, 'my @foo -> $x, $y { ... }' doesn't work yet. 03:12
er, s/my/for/ 03:13
buu Tragic =[ 03:22
ingy hola 03:30
Steve_p hello 03:31
ingy hi Steve_p
Steve_p verizon-- # five hour DSL outage :(
ingy bummer
wolverian buu, agreed. 03:32
buu Hey 03:33
Why doesn't print @x>>+<<@y; work?
wolverian hyper ops aren't implemented yet, afaik. 03:43
buu =[ 03:44
wolverian apparently I have broken my ATI drivers by dropping a book on my stereo amp.
the universe works in mysterious ways.
buu hahahah
ingy :) 03:45
wolverian well, the computer *did* reboot when I dropped that book. now, I have no idea why it did that, since the two machines aren't even connected.
buu Power? 03:46
wolverian well, yes, they both use electricity.
I've been having problems with the lighting in this apartment. I'm going to call in someone to check how flaky the wiring is.
wolverian a bathroom light is just not supposed to go out. they never did when I was young, I swear. 03:47
anyway, this is somewhat offtopic and my DRI is still broken. sorry, all. :)
ingy makes 2 commits in 10 seconds
buu ingy: Fix hyperops?
wolverian I'd like to fix the for loop problem I showed above. my haskell is not up to the task, yet, though. 03:48
(just thinking aloud. I'm learning.)
ingy buu: ha! 04:12
I wish
buu =[ 04:14
When the hell does aujitrus get up?
obra he's still at a conference in .cn, no? 04:15
ingy buu, that gives you plenty of time to read and fix it yourdamnself :p
buu: what tz are you in? 04:16
buu ingy: Naw, I wanted aujitrus to bitch about p6-doc
ingy Taiwan is 14 hours ahead of you iicc 04:17
buu Great =[
mugwump 5 hours behind me
ingy autrijus normal working hours are ~ 2pm - 5am
Taiwan time
but that varies 04:18
buu Freak
ingy and sometimes she takes trips to Saturn
buu She? 04:19
ingy raises her eyebrow at buu...
obra "on the internet, gender is malleable" 04:20
ingy smooochies obra
buu ,,,
I hate you all.
obra: Wrong. On the internet, you are mail. 04:21
ingy ouch
buu heh
I blame that typo on something other than me.
obra *laugh* 04:22
mugwump # look at the wrist
buu mugwump: You are so right. 04:27
mugwump for sure, it's my worst problem 04:29
I inherited it from my father :-)
he was always right too
buu No he wasn't. 04:30
mugwump that's not an argument! I want my £5 back
buu snickers
autrijus greetings lambdacamels. 04:32
ingy I love using Kwid in commit msgs
hi autrijus
autrijus hey. I see you have a test, a plan, and a spec
ingy hack,hack,patch,patch 04:33
I need to convert my psuedo code into perl6
autrijus niiice.
so I'll commit ruleKwidBlock now.
ingy ok
obra hi, autrijus. how's .cn?
autrijus where is your pseudocode? 04:34
ingy I wrote the test code as a comment using the syntax I wish I had
autrijus obra: food is excellent
ingy I invented a Kwid bytecode, as you will see
autrijus whoa. wow. ugh. 04:35
autrijus is reminded of the invocant clash
ingy it could just as easily be a Pod bytecode
autrijus the modules there are nonexistent?
Kwid::Formatter::bytecode; I mean
autrijus greetings buu.
ingy autrijus: yeah
buu autrijus: I grepped p6-doc, found shit 04:36
autrijus: More specifically, I found like 4 actual documents. Am I missing stuff or did you think they produced more? 04:37
ingy fears autrijus is rewriting parser.t for her 04:41
buu Pssh, girls don't exist on the internet 04:43
ingy farts on buu
buu Thus proving my point!
04:44 metaperl_ is now known as metaperl
ingy hi metaperl 04:45
metaperl hi ingy
autrijus_ hey. 04:52
metaperl6: you should be a committer now.
buu: 4 docs sounds about right.
I'm not even sure of its usefulness. 04:53
hence, "salvage".
buu: put them to somewhere or post the 4 link urls?
metaperl autrijus, ok I will try... where is VJunc coded to be a data constructor?
autrijus_ all basic data structures are in AST 04:54
line 274
the pugs code convention is to use the sane name for the constructor and the type it takes
so "VBool VBool"
metaperl yes but the constructor def is commented out
autrijus_ "VJunc VJunc"
where? 04:55
AST.hs line 274 looks sane
metaperl I see it as a type constructor but not data constructor
data VJunc = Junc { juncType :: JuncType
, juncDup :: Set Val
, juncSet :: Set Val
} deriving (Show, Eq, Ord)
04:55 autrijus_ is now known as autrijus
autrijus line 274! :) 04:55
metaperl ok. 04:57
autrijus so, as I said, pugs uses constructor/type punning
when used as a type, VJunc means a junction value
when used as a constructor, VJunc turns a junction value into the algebraic type "Val". 04:58
metaperl the first one is the data constructor. the second one is saying the type of value that the data constructor takes
autrijus yup.
it will take some used to at first
but the context will make it clear
cool with it?
juncSet is used for all junctions 04:59
metaperl yes
autrijus juncDup is only used for none()
the reason is that none() cannot be represent as one set
must use two sets.
so, chromatic wants to do an interview for 05:01
I think I'll just invite him here for an irc interview session
if that's okay with #perl6ers
obra that works, as long as he's ok with the raw being archived in the public logs 05:03
autrijus okay, will tell him that.
abstraction it'll keep him honest :)
obra I wouldn't worry about that with chromatic, absinthe 05:04
er abstraction
abstraction i know, hence the ':)' 05:05
'is' doesn't work. 05:08
autrijus add a test. :)
abstraction mmmkay 05:09
autrijus I'll walk thru all the todo_*
and those has priority :)
buu Oh 05:12
urls, right
I was losing in starcraft =[
autrijus enjoy :)
buu Not really
autrijus: 05:13
Only ones I could find
autrijus that's 3? 05:14
buu Yeah
autrijus indeed doesn't sound too happy :-/
buu Nope 05:15
autrijus buu++ # dived into piles of ancient scrolls
buu heh
I didn't do much
We really need perlbot any here, maybe we'd get some decent karma
er, I'd*
autrijus one can write a script to grep the log and calculate karma ;)
buu Well yeah 05:16
But in #perl I've got like -7
autrijus aww. what did you do to them?
buu Trolled a lot
autrijus strange, you look very sane here :) 05:17
buu It's all an act 05:18
autrijus :)
tmoertel is the darcs repo up to date now? 05:20
buu Theres only about 48,000 lines of email in the archive
I'm sure half of that is headers 05:21
On another note, is anyone pondering a better CPAN for p6? 05:22
ingy autrijus: he settled down after you joined 05:23
buu: I am pondering a different CPAN
buu ingy: Different in what sense?
ingy all author directories are svn repos 05:24
buu Iiinteresting.
ingy but they are mirrored like cpan
buu Well, I was thinking more of a "better"
ingy and you can get tagged release tarballs on demand
autrijus oh, it's back!
tmoertel: I'll restart syncing
tmoertel thansk 05:25
ingy can pugs read a file from disk? 05:26
I can't find an example
buu Is there anyway to get a list of ops pugs supports? 05:27
autrijus buu: builtins.pod will be that place
ingy hcchien: ping
buu But.. it .. doesn't.. exist?
autrijus buu: the end of Prim.hs is currently what works
buu Do you have any format for builtins.pod? 05:28
ingy builtins.kwid hopefully :P
autrijus hmm? src/builtins.pod
buu Oh, it exists?
autrijus sure, converters welcome
sure it does.
buu Yay!
ingy autrijus: did my psuedocode make sense?
autrijus ingy: it makes most sense. the file reading was not there simply because Syns say * and p6l says = 05:29
luqui clarified that = is the way to go
it's just not in synopses
so I guess we should yell at p6team
buu builtins.pod scares me =[
"is equiv(&*infix:<*>)" what the hell? 05:30
autrijus it means, it has precedence equivalent to the * binary operator. 05:31
buu Oh.
But you don't list what it does?
autrijus and builtins.pod is only till Prim.hs line 498 05:32
so if you can help finish the rest of conversion to builtins.pod I'd be happy
no, it does not currently list what it does. a one-line desc will also be appreciated
buu Tolkien--
ingy troll-- 05:33
buu autrijus: Well, I was just about to start something like that, then I remember my kwid parser
autrijus you can pick whichever makes you most happy :)