6.2.10 released! xrl.us/hxnb | geoffb's column (/. ed): xrl.us/hxhk | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 or sial.org/pbot/perl6 | www.geeksunite.net
Set by integral on 25 October 2005.
ingy autrijus: I'll get it shortly! 00:14
seen autrijus 00:20
jabbot ingy: autrijus was seen 1 hours 47 minutes 16 seconds ago
ingy autrijus: are there any completely new docs?
geoffb ingy, did you already have S17? 00:22
Man, this code optimization blog series is going way longer than I expected: www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/8260 00:24
Ah well, at least I'm not running low on topics. :-)
It will be nice when I get done with this series, though, and get back to Perl-specific stuff.
ingy geoffb: I have it now 00:38
Perl6-Bible-0.22.tar.gz (The Halloween Edition) on the ether to CPAN now...
geoffb ingy++ 00:39
ingy :)
gantrixx is there anyone here from Phoenix? 01:58
amos maybe! 02:00
02:00 amos is now known as azuroth_tafe
theorbtwo thinks azuroth_tafe is being testy. 02:01
(If you will foregive the foregoing pun.) 02:02
gantrixx well if you are from arizona and are looking for a job, msg me privately
azuroth_tafe no, but I'd like a job anyway . . . ;-p 02:03
gantrixx is autrijus here? 02:04
I did get a company interested in using Perl6
unfortunately, they are interested now
they want to rewrite a bunch of Perl5 stuff to Perl6
azuroth_tafe that's very cool 02:07
Khisanth just not very practical :) 02:12
rep isn't it a bit premature
azuroth_tafe they don't need to start _using_ it straight away though, right? 02:33
gantrixx actually yes they want to start using it 03:08
they thought that Perl5 didn't have multithreading and Perl6 did
actually Perl5 does have it, I'm just not that familiar with it
I did tell them that Perl6 would be a worth while endevor but not until an activestate distrobution is ready 03:09
they use perl-win32
OK, I have to log off now. the kids have stopped comming begging for candy 03:10
I'm going to bed
azuroth_tafe gg 04:28
svnbot6 r7805 | eric256++ | added doc links to two tests. 04:52
r7805 | eric256++ | Added doc link to slurp.t
r7805 | eric256++ | Doc linkes for a few OO tests.
geoffb Apparent bug in 'make register': My PARROT_PATH ends in 'svk/parrot-trunk'. 'make register' dies with an error from ghc-pkg about '.../svk/parrot doesn't exist or isn't a directory'. Something breaking the directory at the hyphen, I'd guess. 07:05
morning, nothingmuch 07:39
nothingmuch morning
geoffb How's life on your side of the planet? 07:40
nothingmuch is doing some catalyst stuff 07:54
as opposed to pugs
someone was needed to fix sessions up
geoffb ah 07:55
Fun at least?
nothingmuch sorry 09:20
geoffb: yes, pretty fun
shlemiel the painter
damn clipboard
(that was from a reply to stevan, if anyone cares, on p6l) 09:21
gaal anyone know a Windows equivalent to strace? 09:32
misc gaal: see sysinternals.com , maybe they have something ? 09:34
gaal didn't find anything there, but now checking out www.bindview.com/Services/RAZOR/Uti...readme.cfm 09:35
sysinternals.com++ #general rockitude
hmmm the bindview strace has a few serious downsides. I think I'll pass for now :/ 09:36
sky__ an 10:45
rafl_ Is generating the prelude broken currenylt? 11:02
svnbot6 r7806 | autrijus++ | * Wendy's notes of what can hopefully become PA02 that is accessible to nonjargon audiences 12:13
autrijus rafl_: nopaste the error? 12:21
sadly I need to run off to amsterdam.pm meeting in a couple mins 12:22
will checkback iff find wireless
(journal updated)
theorbtwo wonders who Wendy is. 12:27
rafl_ autrijus: make realclean fixed it. 12:43
theorbtwo Oh, to answer my own question: Liz's housemate. 12:45
nothingmuch hola 13:09
theorbtwo Hola, Yuval. 13:17
comet_ morning 13:23
Juerd 13:27 < autrijus> sadly I need to run off to amsterdam.pm meeting in a couple mins 14:07
Ohhh, thanks for the reminder
I was living with the notion of today being monday.
theorbtwo: Liz's wife
theorbtwo Oh, I didn't realize she was married. Or a lesbian. 14:08
Juerd I 14:12
I knew the latter, the former only when reading Wendy's site :)
theorbtwo Oddly, I seem to recall a dutch lesbian couple hanging out on the CB around the time Liz was there, but I don't recal Liz being in it. 14:14
How many lesbian dutch perl monks are there? 14:15
stevan theorbtwo: deep down, I think we are all dutch lesbians 14:18
svnbot6 r7807 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace - cleaning up some details, making the bootstapping tools easier to use, therefore making the code easier to read as well
stevan autrijus: ping # have some YARV thoughts when you get back
theorbtwo Thank you, stevan, for finally giving a punchline. 14:20
stevan theorbtwo: :)
Juerd 15:23 < stevan> theorbtwo: deep down, I think we are all dutch lesbians 14:27
theorbtwo: I have no idea.
theorbtwo: They're the only two dutch female perl programmers I know, even
But then, I really don't know any dutch perl programmers except those I met at amsterdam.pm 14:28
stevan Juerd: maybe you should take a poll at the meeting :)
Juerd stevan: "Are you dutch and lesbian?" 14:30
stevan Juerd: well I think you can probably assume the dutch part
Juerd autrijus will be at the meeting, and isn't dutch. I hope he's not lesbian, though, because that'd mean my gender guessing skills are WAY off :) 14:31
stevan Juerd: you mean, you didnt know?
Juerd Why does this subject intruige you so much, by the way? :)
stevan: haha
stevan Juerd: it doesn't really,.. just a slow morning @work :) 14:32
Juerd It'd be fun, though, if there were any relation between sexual preference and programming language of choice
I myself am gay
stevan is avoiding writing a proposal for a client
Juerd Is Perl a gay language? Many PHP coders seem to think so...
stevan thinks PHP is for transgender bestiality freaks 14:33
Juerd: Lambdas are gay (www.lambda.org/) 14:34
xinming If there were any relation between sexual preference and programming language... I should choose programming language after my preference is finished. :-P
hmm, anyone here knows why iblech didn't come here for now? 14:36
stevan xinming: he usually has the iblechbot log the channel,. and I think he backlogs 14:37
he is also still in school,..
xinming Oh, I just wish to have a conversation with him on a test. 14:38
Limbic_Region I would be more interested in a correlation between preferred language and preferred hobbies then in sexual orientation
but I guess that's because I already have a mate and am just looking for a pal ;-) 14:39
Juerd Limbic_Region: I think sexual orientation has a lot to do with hobby... :)
stevan Juerd++ :)
my name is stevan, like proramming in perl, long walks on the beach and reading sci-fi novels 14:40
Limbic_Region Juerd - maybe so but I don't really care about the sexual orientation aspect. Only if they enjoy the same things I do
Juerd Yes, enjoying the same things is important for sex too.
Limbic_Region hasn't had too many gay men fall for him to make it a problem of avoidance
s/problem/reason/ 14:41
Limbic_Region is in the process of reviving the currently defunct local PerlMongers group
xinming ?eval class a { has $.a; method update { $.a; } };class b { has $.a; submethod BUILD { a.new( a => $.a ).update; }; }; b.new( a => 20 ); 14:42
evalbot_7807 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&update"
xinming hmm, Ok, I will ask here anyway.
Is my example cause recursively method calls?
stevan thinks people might be more likely to go to a perlmongers meeting if it involved sex
Juerd ... 14:43
xinming hmm, indirectly... 14:44
Just wish to my test better...
s/to/to make/ 14:45
:-S why If I ask this question... all people are becoming quiet? :-/ 14:49
stevan ?eval class a { method update { 'foo' } }; a.new().update(); 14:52
evalbot_7807 "foo"
stevan ?eval class a { method update { 'foo' } }; a.new().update;
evalbot_7807 "foo"
xinming but for the indirect class instance creation... It will get the problem. 14:53
with class name and attribute which are the same...
stevan xinming: what do you want b.new() to return?
xinming if you change class name a -> A, and b -> B, the problem will go. 14:54
stevan ok
xinming stevan: returns nothing, Just create a instance and call a method from other class, and return.
stevan xinming: this will (hopefully) be fixed with the metamodel 14:55
xinming stevan: Yeah, I know, I want to know if the test is finished right now, or after the bug is fixed. :-) 14:56
when should I finish the test. 14:57
stevan xinming: commit the breaking test,..
it will encourage people to fix it :)
xinming stevan: It's already there.
ycheng /join #sx 14:59
theorbtwo Can you change confliction to conflict? 15:00
xinming theorbtwo: well, do as you wish, as my English is poor. :-/ 15:01
sorry for my poor English
theorbtwo Your english is /far/ better then my Chinese. 15:02
xinming theorbtwo: that makes no sense on comparing English with Chinese... vice versa... As I still have to learn.. :-) 15:03
obra seen luqui 16:04
jabbot obra: luqui was seen 1 days 12 hours 37 minutes 54 seconds ago
eric256 anyone know the name of a web based linux config tool? i always forget its name ;( 16:18
xinming eric256: webadmin? 16:19
PerlJam eric256: try typing "web based linux config tool" into google.
xinming thinks webadmin might be the most famous one. :-/
PerlJam xinming: It's the first link in google if he'd done what I said.
eric256 webmin.. 16:20
PerlJam thats what i was searching with ;)
xinming PerlJam: It's what I think when I saw he asked. ;-)
but maybe wrong... :-/
eric256 webmin is it. webadmin is something different... i worded my google query slightly different and didn't get that at all. lol 16:21
xinming eric256: webmin is correct, I ever used this for over month when I was in BeiJing, But now, I prefer ssh instead. ;-) 16:24
eric256 yea but i need to do some stuff i ain good at..i'm hoping it will automate them. ;)
eric256 and FTP don't get along well at all
xinming prefer lftp as client and proftpd-mysql as server. 16:26
eric256 i can't seem to get any FTP setup to actualy work.
i'm just not realy a sysadmin at all. 16:27
Khisanth well ftp has fun issues with firewalls :) 16:33
theorbtwo Try both passive and non-passive.
Sometimes only one or the other will work.
FTP is not a good protocol for the age of the NAT.
Khisanth I don't think either of those will work if both side has a firewall 16:34
eric256 its not connecting. its setting up the FTP server.
theorbtwo Would be likely, Khisanth. 16:36
HTTP is really a much more sane design.
xinming hmm, it both are behind the firewall, I'd prefer use http for serving files.
or do some port-map for ftp, But I don't know if it really works though. :-P 16:37
for http, just map the firewall 80 port into the server, that's all done.. IMHO
s/it/if/ 16:38
theorbtwo Or any other port, and give the port in the URL. 16:39
eric256 just needs point and click isntallation of FTP ;)
theorbtwo FTP tries to use a seperate connections for data and control.
eric256 or maybe one that installs itself when i mumble an incantation 16:40
theorbtwo That means it needs to be able to make another connection like this one, and associate them. HTTP just needs the one.
xinming in fact, for Unix users, scp isn't not that bad.
theorbtwo Why do you need ftp for this?
integral scp eats way more cycles than ftp though 16:41
eric256 for this? /me needs it for work. i have a web developer who needs access to the files and be able to FTP them up and down.
xinming eric256: try svn. ;-)
integral: well, For convience, ssh isn't that bad for the machine nowadays. 16:42
eric256 xinming... doesn't five me what i need i promise
xinming what does five mean here? >_<
eric256 s/five/give/ f and g are next to each other ;) 16:43
theorbtwo Ah, OK, that makes sense. 16:44
What is your firewall?
eric256 this is all on the same network 16:45
though my lin box seems to have some sort of firewall of its own in place. /me curses 16:46
xinming iptables? ipchains?
Khisanth tables probably
theorbtwo Oh. 16:47
Hm, you said it's not connecting at all, or just not working? 16:48
eric256 iptables
local wget on the machine gets the login page, anything elsewhere times out.. looking for the config for iptables
theorbtwo You probably need to open up a hole in your firewall. Possibly just get rid of it.
xinming \ 16:49
eric256 yea. /et/csysconfig/iptables found. ;)
Khisanth well you need 21 open and posssibly some more if you are not using passive, if you are using passive you should probably specify a port range 16:50
eric256 now i fi only understood the syntax. lol /me laughs in misery. hehe computers are soo evil
turned off firewall and rejoiced 16:51
its behind at least 2 other firewalls anyway....who would need so many firewalls. arg ;)
17:16 stef_ is now known as cognominal_
geoffb eric256, defense in depth. 17:16
geoffb used to be a certified Paranoid Bastard, but now just doesn't have the time for it. 17:17
Thankfully, I set up my firewalls will I was still a PB. :-)
Anybody here remember FSP? 17:18
theorbtwo Each firewall is to firewall from different people. 17:25
The last one to firewall you from everybody else one the network... 17:26
eric256 freaking thing keeps saying invalid login. arg. 17:38
Khisanth which server are you using? 17:39
eric256 proftpd
Khisanth and where is it getting the login/pass info from?
eric256 how do i know?
Khisanth hmm that should be in the .conf I guess 17:41
eric256 yea. it doesn't like running in inetd, but standalone works fine ;) /me rejoices 17:51
svnbot6 r7808 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props. 17:55
r7808 | iblech++ | * t/pugsbugs/class_name_and_attribute_name_confliction.t: More investigation --
r7808 | iblech++ | the main cause for failing is now clear (look inside the file).
eric256 chears hystericaly 17:57
geoffb :-) 17:58
pmurias hi 18:00
svnbot6 r7809 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace -
r7809 | stevan++ | * added the symbol type, to represent variable names and
r7809 | stevan++ | optionally the assoiciate type
r7809 | stevan++ | * closures now need closure::params instead of list() for
r7809 | stevan++ | its param list, and that list must be made up of symbols
r7809 | stevan++ | instead of strings (which means we get (basic) type
r7809 | stevan++ | checking for free)
r7809 | stevan++ | * hash can now take any type for the key, but it will always
r7809 | stevan++ | stringify that type, and not keep it around (this should be
r7809 | stevan++ | fixed, but is okay for now) 18:01
r7809 | stevan++ | * added some more methods to the bootstrap file as well
eric256 iblech...i'm not sure your right...well i'm not sure your wrong. just when i was testing that example i was doing so with only one set of classes in the file.
hmm iblech isn't here....
eric256 wishes iblech where here...i just tested it and indeed it breaks even with only one set of classes so i think you might be following a different bug 18:02
geoffb eric256, it's possible he may notice his name went by in iblechbot, but I don't know how careful he is about that 18:03
xinming yeap. :-P iblech might misunderstand me. :-P 18:05
twobitsprite I'm looking for resources on writing parrot asm, but I'm having a hard time finding an actual list of opcodes... 18:07
eric256 www.parrotcode.org/docs/ .. youve probably looked there, but just in case 18:08
PerlJam twobitsprite: particularly www.parrotcode.org/docs/ops
oh, I guess that's empty now. 18:09
never mind, ignore me.
twobitsprite yeah, I saw that, but I was confused by the notation... they notate opcodes as opcode(stuff, stuff)...
Limbic_Region ok - anyone who knows/understand the Makfile.PL about? 18:10
twobitsprite PerlJam, no, it's not empty...
PerlJam mine is.
Limbic_Region in particular, portability
twobitsprite well... they list, i.e. the opcode "bnot" in the notation "bnot(inout INT)"... is that the actual syntax? i.e. in my .pasm file, would I say "bnot(inout 4)"? 18:11
eric256 maybe compare www.parrotcode.org/examples/pasm.html to the docs so you get a feel for how the documentation works
twobitsprite eric256, ahh ha... examples! :) 18:12
this should keep me busy for a while...
geoffb twobitsprite, why are you working in raw PASM anyway? 18:13
eric256 warning /me doesn't know the difference between PIR, Parrot, PASM and a can of worms.
geoffb Better to use PIR, for your own sanity.
twobitsprite geoffb, I just wanted to play with it
geoffb, er... PIR? 18:14
geoffb Hey, if that's your -Ofun, go for it. :-)
PIR == Parrot Intermediate Representation. It's higher-level, on top of PASM. Makes it easier to work with.
eric256 so for perl6 we've now designed (we in no way including myself. ;) ) 3 languages? PASM,PIR, and Perl6?
Limbic_Region where higher in higher-level is relative
geoffb Hence "higher" in stead of "high". :-) 18:15
s:3rd/ //
Limbic_Region ok - so no takers on the portability inquiry of Makefile.PL? 18:16
geoffb *la la la la la la la*
twobitsprite I see
all over the parrot site, they say the best way to help with parrot was to write asm code, to help test, etc... should I instead be using pir? 18:17
PerlJam twobitsprite: WRT your question, no that's not the syntax. you could use "bnot X" or "bnot(X)" where X is one of many things.
geoffb leo, I think twobitsprite should be talking to you
PerlJam twobitsprite: IN parameters are for input only, OUT are for output only, and INOUT do both.
twobitsprite: X could be an I-register or a P-register, etc. 18:18
leo here I am 18:19
pmurias Is there a short tutorial to perl6?
geoffb twobitsprite, meet leo. He's the guy you need to be asking about PASM and PIR . . . though he will probably want to take you to the parrot channel first 18:20
twobitsprite tried the parrot channel, only to find the void
geoffb twobitsprite, not on this network. irc.perl.org, I think. 18:21
leo twobitsprite: #parrot is at pobox
Limbic_Region twobitsprite - I thought #parrot was on a different network
twobitsprite I see
eric256 that. seems silly
leo irc.pobox.com
geoffb leo, you might want to become op on #parrot on freenode, just so you can keep a topic in that channel pointing to the correct network 18:22
leo I can try that - good idea
eric256 or we could stick a bot in there. 18:23
PerlJam the bot could hang out in #parrotsketch and rely the conversation for readonly access too. 18:24
geoffb Take it away, Eric the Orchestra Leader 18:25
eric256 looks around behind him....damn volunteer traps, i'm always falling into those 18:26
geoffb ... -Onot_fun: porting perfectly decent SQL code to Oracle ...
eric256, heh
pmurias I'am thinking of writing a 1-2 page tutorial to perl6 for my english assigment , any sugestions? 18:28
PerlJam eric256: PoCoIRC is your friend.
pmurias: Is your english assignment to write a technical document? 18:29
eric256 PoCoIRC? will it help me avoid traps? lol
pmurias Not really?It's just a free topic one :)
geoffb pmurias, take a look at some of the slideshows . . . doc/talks/ has some
eric256 lol. /me pictures the tortured look on pmurias' english teacher.
geoffb :-)
eric256 is this the, "make the paper so boring she wont read it all" aproach? 18:30
pmurias a bit
The point of the assigment is to just write something usefull. 18:31
eric256 i would bet that your teacher doesn't include tutorials, technical manuals, or indexs as "free topic" material.
eric256 doesn't miss the days of writing papers even a little
pmurias The point was to use engilsh as tool not the objective. 18:32
So it should be ok.
eric256 ahhh. interesting teacher and assignment
pmurias english isn't our native language. 18:33
geoffb Yours is pretty good, pmurias
eric256 ahhh. that makes more since
yea i wouldn't have guessed, obviously. ;)
xerox 'useful' ;-)
pmurias It would be usefull to hack ispell into BitchX 18:34
xerox Try out Circe :-)
pmurias How upto date to the perl6 definition is pugs 6.2.10? 18:38
eric256 both are moving targets. perl6 isn't anywhere near completly specced out, but pugs keeps very close to the latest decisions on p6 18:39
PerlJam somehow "moving target" seems like a tremendous understatement ;-) 18:43
eric256 "implementing perl6 with pugs is like trying to swat a fly with a chop stick" ;) 18:46
now *thats* a moving target. ;)
pmurias pugs 6.2.10 isn't hopefully a moving target :) Unless you switch tarballs behinde the scene :) 18:47
PerlJam eric256: Didn't you see the Karate Kid? Catching a fly with chop sticks is so easy that Ralph Macchio could do it; swatting one shouldn't be any more difficult! ;-) 18:50
eric256 pmurias...while 6.2.10 might not be moving..perl6 certainly is
pmurias I'm grabbing perl 5.8.7 to compile the latest svn revision. 18:52
I was just considering useing the 6.2.10 installed on by debian server box...
eric256 scratches his head. what? compile SVN or compile the newest 5.8.7?
pmurias The latest pugs revision. 18:54
PerlJam eric256: he's compiling Perl6::Pugs (or whatever the module name is) with perl 5.8.7
eric256 whats that have to do with perl 5.8.7?
pmurias from the subversion repository
eric256 ohhhh
PerlJam (I'm guessing)
pmurias pugs requires 5.8.1
and 5.8.0 was included with slackware 9 18:55
eric256 then why are you grabbing 5.8.7? or you don't have perl at all yet?
PerlJam why does pugs require 5.8.1?
pmurias Don't no 18:56
obra 5.8.0 was very buggy
pmurias Makefile.PL used to say it requires 6.0.0 in the error message previously 18:57
So i was scared off from the source packages untill recently
:) 18:58
eric256 lol
PerlJam oh well, I'm going to continually be blissfully ignorant of the whole thing as I never use a perl < 5.8.6 these days 18:59
eric256 pmurias just get a feather account from Juerd then you can always play with the newest pugs...its recompiled every 15 minutes (if there are changes) 19:00
ArchDist anyone have a suggested book on perl for non-programmers/beginners ? 19:21
geoffb ArchDist, you may want #perl instead. #perl6 is for development of the Perl 6 compiler 19:22
Khisanth learning perl and beginning perl
Limbic_Region ArchDist - perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=284175 19:23
perlbot learn perl
perlbot learn.perl.org/library/beginning_perl/
ArchDist geoffb: thanks ! 19:24
geoffb In the Perl Training BOF at OSCON Portland, it was pointed out that LP assumes the user programs in some other language already, which the authors freely admitted
ArchDist, np
hmmm . . . 19:25
ArchDist yeah LP is not great for non programmers and perl for dummies sucks
thanks ! 19:26
geoffb perlbot, #perl6 is for development of the Perl 6 compiler; #perl is for general Perl questions and discussion
perlbot added #perl6 to the database
geoffb perlbot, tell geoffb about #perl6
I should have thought of that a long time ago
Anyone know if there's a shorter way to give that command? 19:27
Khisanth which? 19:28
geoffb "tell nick about topic" 19:29
pmurias Could i get a feather account Juerd ,please?
Khisanth you could do perlbot #perl6 > geoffb
geoffb perlbot #perl6 > geoffb
perlbot #perl6
perlbot for development of the Perl 6 compiler; #perl is for general Perl questions and discussion
geoffb It would be nice if it left the leading "#perl6 is" in 19:30