6.2.12 released! | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org
Set by audreyt on 26 June 2006.
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gaal audreyt: ping 01:18
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gaal mooses 02:07
audreyt camels 02:15
just sent off the grand semicolon refactoring to the synopsis
now the fun begins on updating all the multi tests in t/ to switch to semicolons 02:16
so they can all break ;)
svnbot6 r10978 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : removed subset MainType ... though it may return later if actually useful 02:23
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svnbot6 r10979 | audreyt++ | * Now that the release is done (with the Japanese version 02:26
r10979 | audreyt++ | of the Earendil poem), we switch to the Russian translation
r10979 | audreyt++ | for the next version of Pugs.
r10980 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser.Util: Parse for
r10980 | audreyt++ | multi f ($x; $y; $z) { ... }
r10980 | audreyt++ | note that this currently doesn't reject this invalid form:
r10980 | audreyt++ | sub f ($x; $y; $z) { ... }
r10980 | audreyt++ | nor this form:
r10980 | audreyt++ | sub f ($self: $foo) { ...}
r10980 | audreyt++ | more tests are definitely welcome.
audreyt Slate++ # nice language, like Self before it, provides endless inspiration 02:27
# slate.tunes.org/
lambdabot Title: "Slate Language Website"
audreyt stevan++ # for bringing back it into discussion at YAPC::NA speaker's dinner here
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svnbot6 r10981 | audreyt++ | * add unobe's link to INSTALL. Probably going to reflect 02:31
r10981 | audreyt++ | that to pugscode.org...
kolibrie audreyt: nice write-ups in the synopsis changes 03:09
audreyt danke 03:11
chromatic says he doesn't hate it
kolibrie bitte 03:12
the talk I didn't give is entitled "Practical Extraction with Perl 6" 03:13
I'm going to work on a grammar tomorrow to see if it is already easy 03:14
then bug TimToady and audreyt if it isn't
audreyt yup 03:16
you can use regex/token/rule with pugs
and have the whole q:code/macro now
so should be... interesting to try some sort of extraction tasks
kolibrie yes, but can I define whitespace to be <any>?
audreyt rule ws
should do it
I think. try it!
(if it doesn't work write a test, etc, etc, you know the drill) 03:17
kolibrie that's the plan
audreyt sees kolibrie smiling and nodding
"I'm blogging you blogging me!"
gaal rolls his antlers
audreyt yourolled a 6
gaal }:)
audreyt 6:)
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svnbot6 r10982 | gaal++ | yaml_harness.pl: 03:34
r10982 | gaal++ | * Use unqualified names, so any YAML provider's functions
r10982 | gaal++ | may be called.
r10982 | gaal++ | * Help text.
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svnbot6 r10983 | lwall++ | $sig ~~ s/:/;/ cleanup 03:58
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nothingmuch møøse 04:54
audreyt moose 04:59
clkao m<hotspring><hotspring>se
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nothingmuch audreyt: i was actually sober enough to code 05:10
i know this because I *did* code
and my code passed tests
subsequently i became distracted though
audreyt feel free to post a comment to say that
nothingmuch naaaaaaaah
TimToady in the morning you will see that the tests were incorrect. :)
nothingmuch vanity--
TimToady: quite possibly =) 05:11
audreyt TimToady++
PerlJam Would you guys be called yapcteers?
or yapcotics? 05:12
yapcrobats perhaps
nothingmuch then again, i can just commit the tests and let a sober entity confirm their correctness
svnbot6 r10984 | audreyt++ | * explicitly require Best 0.05+ for our tests. 05:13
TimToady well, I only broke the build... 05:14
doesn't seem to like
multi sub longmess (; $e = '')
in the Prelude
(used to be a colon) 05:15
audreyt: did your change not cover that case?
audreyt verifying
what that mean though
does it mean that it's always dispatched?
(because 0 is shortest arity)
TimToady it means it's dispatched like ()
audreyt yeah but anything can fit 0 05:16
longmess("foo") will have no problem
TimToady but it's least specific
nothingmuch good night people, i'm off to bed
thanks for a lovely evening, YAPC speakers
TimToady I dunno--I just change the : to ;
audreyt "The initial dispatch is always to the shortest advertised long name"
clkao nothingmuch: no! you must commit!
TimToady nite nothingmuch
audreyt which doesn't have ties at that level 05:17
(0-level)
TimToady hmm.
audreyt and as such won't need redispatch
nothingmuch clkao: i did
you can darcs pull
PerlJam TimToady: does that mean that multi sub foo (;) is shorter than multi sub foo () ? ;-)
nothingmuch nothingmuch.woobling.org/Perl-Generate
audreyt TimToady: that's a strict reading of line 664 in S12 would give
lambdabot Title: "Index of /Perl-Generate"
TimToady I don't think that says what I wanted it to say.
nothingmuch this is the backend for Moose's inlining work
audreyt TimToady: er, well, maybe change it to say what you wanted it to say, then :)
nothingmuch fglock: nothingmuch.woobling.org/Perl-Generate is also relevant for the Perl 5 emitter - take a look
lambdabot Title: "Index of /Perl-Generate"
nothingmuch lambdabot: yes, we know
TimToady I'll have to think about it. but meanwhile, it really oughta parse anyway... 05:18
audreyt yeah. have a temp fix now.
committing
TimToady k 05:19
audreyt (r10985) 05:21
svnbot6 r10985 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser.Util: Even more temp band-aid to get semicolon
r10985 | audreyt++ | to parse as colons in signature list
r10986 | audreyt++ | * er, sorry, I somehow made the tests 90% less for "make smoke". 05:27
dduncan I have a question re best practice role+class design ... 05:30
audreyt ok?
dduncan I would like to have input checking code in the appropriate phase of a constructor in the role but don't want the role to worry about storing those to attributes after 05:31
then the class just stores the input in attributes
the role code may transform the input
should I declare new() in the role and BUILD() in the class, or something else?
was the question clear? 05:32
oh yes, the class does the role
actually, for that matter, can a role declare attributes, or is that just the domain of a class? 05:33
audreyt essentially, you want a role to implement validator
dduncan and a role can only declare routines
yes
the role will implement a validator plus utility code, and the class focuses on storage code
audreyt a role can surely declare attributes in a role.
as such, you can simply put those in the role 05:34
and put validator there also.
dduncan I may do that part of the time, but part of the time I don't want the role to care how it is stored
eg, whether it is stored in RAM or on disk (a database)
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dduncan the actual representation in memory doesn't matter, it can be the default opaque or whatever 05:35
audreyt got it
dduncan in a way, the role is like declaring a tieable class, and the class implements a tie of it 05:36
audreyt but then, the role has to know about the names of the attr
if it's to validate specifically those
and you lose reusable
ness
one way is to put generate validation routines into the role
*generic
role Validator { method some_validate ($x) { ... } } 05:37
class MyClass does Validator { submethod BUILD ($.x) { self.some_validate($.x) } }
etc
dduncan currently, my design of the role just has it knowing the conceptual attributes from the user's pov, but it would use methods that only the subclassing class implements to access them; said class has the actual attributes and/or access to the actual storage mechanism
audreyt ah. so it knows the name but not the methods
sure, that can work too
that's actually a pretty clear design 05:38
dduncan eg, say that the role is Hash and that the class is an implementation thereof
audreyt *clean
(I'm really sleepy now, can't type)
unobe audreyt: just reading backlog
dduncan the expectation is that said class implements analogues to FETCH and STORE, and the role always invokes those for actual attribute access
audreyt dduncan: yup. makes sense 05:39
so it's best to list those in the role
as virtual methods
dduncan the user of the role could potentially invoke same class methods, which are declared in the role as prototypes, but often they don't need to
audreyt method some_fetch { ... }
unobe yeah, parrotembed. i'll take that out and rebuild
audreyt right.
unobe the latest available at unobe.com/packages isn't with parrotembed tho' 05:40
audreyt k
dduncan fyi, the roles in question here are Relation, Relation::Tuple, Relation::Heading (possibly more to come) ... and implementing classes can just use a normal Perl set of hashes or whatever behind the scenes for implementing, or it can use DBI or something to tie them to database tables, the sky's the limit 05:41
so this is dual-purpose generic Hash/Set like object and tool for making ORMS
implementations can vary a lot even in memory only, such as in what order they do elements in set combinations, or whether and how they use indexes, etc 05:43
audreyt got it. 05:44
dduncan so at the moment I'm working on the constructor for Relation::Heading, which takes a name:type hash as its sole argument ... I would like to put validation plus input rearranging code in Relation::Heading and actual storage code in Relation::Example::Heading (a trivial implementation) 05:45
unless I can somehow have a BUILD in both, and have one call the other, I will put a new() in the first and BUILD() in the second, unless, there is a better design idea 05:46
back in a moment ...
audreyt I think that one works for now... can't think clearly though. 05:48
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audreyt zzz & 05:50
TimToady likewise & 05:51
(build is unbroke now, smoking while I sleep)...
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dduncan okay, I'm back 06:04
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xdg exit 06:33
audreyt TimToady: "The initial dispatch starts by pretending that the shortest
+advertised long name is the complete long name"
I'm still not sure what it means. but we'll figure it out tomorrow 06:34
also, may need to see if your room is large enough for hackathon, maybe obra and/or me will drop by first in the morning (though I don't know where it is)
but, sleep &
svnbot6 r10987 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : added initial new()/BUILD() submethods for the Heading role/class 06:46
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svnbot6 r10988 | rootmj++ | * after move Makefile.PLs fix 09:08
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svnbot6 r10989 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : added 4 subtype declarations to handle input validation details, simplified the Heading constructor, added several prototype and actual methods to Heading 09:23
dduncan for anyone backlogging, particularly those at the hackathon, I would appreciate some scrutiny of the new Relation::* subtypes and ::Heading role+class that are taking shape, both in the manner of feedback, and in the manner to making Perl 6 language features I am using therein to actually compile 09:26
for example, unless I did something wrong, it appears that subtypes 'where' traits don't parse yet
also, I would like to know the syntax for declaring an anonymous Mapping value 09:27
as well as what sigil(s) Mapping variables can take 09:28
currently I'm treating the Mappings like a Hash but that they can only be set on declaration, and hence are immutable
so hash syntax currently
zzz & 09:29
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meppl guten morgen 11:34
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Limbic_Region Are all the hackathoners *mostly* sober? 12:57
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svnbot6 r10990 | audreyt++ | * Data::Bind - Declare dependencies 15:07
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DebolazX The environment variables PARROT_PATH and PUGS_EMBED only needs to be set during configure, not during make, right? 15:23
Also, this is not nice. Maybe not related to pugs directly, but it does happen: ERROR: Can't create '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i386-linux 15:48
When trying to install in a local directory.
audreyt DebolazX: do you have write perm? 16:02
oh wait you said PREFIX?
DebolazX Yes, PREFIX.
audreyt DebolazX: also, P_P needs to be there in both make and runtime
DebolazX And it installs just fine into the prefix. 16:03
audreyt so the error happens when installation ends
DebolazX It seems to be at the installation end. Maybe it's trying to record the installation. 16:04
I'll build it again and put more context on sial.org/pbot/perl6
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pasteling "DebolazX" at 62.89.32.200 pasted "Local installation error" (18 lines, 1.1K) at sial.org/pbot/18087 16:15
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ludan ciao 16:16
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audreyt DebolazX: trying to replicate. give me a sec 16:23
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audreyt DebolazX: found the cause. sec 16:28
DebolazX helped. :D 16:31
audreyt DebolazX++
wolverian ooh, djabberd is shiny 16:32
audreyt DebolazX: you can even help to fix
I'll explain the bug, and can you help fix it? 16:33
the bug is that in Makefile.PL, line 412, it tries to get a set of directories where the ext/ libraries will install to
the "perl6 sitelib"
it does this from inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm 16:34
line 142
which gets it from util/PugsConfig.pm
line 9
which calls add_path 16:35
same file line 61
to do s/perl5/perl6/ rewriting of directory names
now, that is all fine and good
but under PREFIX
the siteprefix we get form %Config is no longer good
so Makefile.PL line 412 has to pass in prefix info into this chain
to override the directory names we get from $Config
DebolazX Well, formally, I'm paid to work on someone elses perl code at the moment. :|
So it'll have to wait. 16:36
audreyt in order for the final target installation to agree with prefix
that's fine... anyone else? :)
hm. one hackathon idea from mdiep is to setup tryruby.hobix.com/ 16:41
lambdabot Title: "try ruby! (in your browser)"
audreyt on (say) feather
and/or convert pugscode.org to a wiki instance
(e.g. like haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell)
lambdabot Title: "Haskell - HaskellWiki"
svnbot6 r10991 | clkao++ | Support invocant in Data::Bind. 16:43
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clkao summon aufrank 17:08
DebolazX ponders what to think about autoboxing. 17:10
I see scrotties argument about some code getting a more logical flow. 17:11
mauke conflict: module `Data.ByteString' is present in multiple packages: pugs-fps-0.7, fps-0.7 17:12
am I doing it wrong?
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svnbot6 r10992 | clkao++ | PCR is missing ; in pacakge line. 17:22
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svnbot6 r10993 | clkao++ | I don't know what I am doing, but this makes miniperl6 tests work again. 17:41
Aankhen`` Heh.
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svnbot6 r10994 | clkao++ | Escape things in q(). 17:50
Aankhen`` Unfathomable fixes are the best kind of fixes! 17:51
fglock hi! 17:59
clkao fglock! 18:01
fglock: *open_q = Pugs::Compiler::Token->compile(q( <[<]> ))->code; 18:02
that doesn't work at all
(i am trying to compile src/Parser/Signature.pg)
kolibrie fglock: greetings
fglock clkao: how about q( \< ) ? char classes is not mature in PCR 18:03
kolibrie: hi!
kolibrie what is the correct way to execute a rule from a grammar? With pugs I'm getting: *** Cannot parse PGE: <yapc_schedule.speaker> 18:04
*** Error: Null PMC access in invoke()
ingy hola
fglock kolibrie: it looks ok
clkao fglock: that works
fglock ingy: ola
kolibrie fglock: that's what I thought 18:05
clkao fglock: do you think it's better to fix the signatures in operator.pm ? or the grammar?
kolibrie audreyt: pmichaud: thoughts?
my line is: my $match = $content ~~ m/<yapc_schedule.speaker>/; 18:06
fglock clkao: I started signatures in Operator.pm - it can be rewritten later (unless you find it is too broken)
but the rule-based grammar is the right place 18:07
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fglock nothingmuch: cool (Perl::Generate) 18:13
ingy hi fglock!
ekmett does anyone know how well the HsJudy stuff is working out for pugs? 18:15
fglock bbiab 18:17
clkao fglock: it doesn't have invocant
and signature itself is recursive (which should be params actually) 18:18
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fglock clkao: would you help fix it? 18:22
clkao i was trying to use the signature.pg instead
fglock: btw, do you know if r10993 is sensible? 18:23
fglock looking
Aankhen`` It's sensible if it listens to its parents and doesn't stay out too late at night. 18:25
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cwest eval? say "Hello" 18:26
audreyt greetings
cwest Is our eval bot safe?
audreyt cwest: yes
?eval say "hello"
18:26 evalbot_10971 is now known as evalbot_10994
evalbot_10994 OUTPUT[hello ] Bool::True 18:26
audreyt ?eval system('rm -rf')
cwest Most excellent
evalbot_10994 Error: Unsafe function 'system' called under safe mode
clkao fglock: so what i want to do is hook the emitter with data::bind. it seems ready.
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audreyt kolibrie: nopaste the entire program? 18:27
ekmett: cmarcelo has a patch that integrates it to our runtime
I havn't benchmarked it against (TVar Map) yet 18:28
ekmett ah k
that was pretty much where i was going with my query =)
fglock clkao: can you publish Data::Bind to cpan?
ekmett i started slapping together an ecmascript 4 parser/interpreter/recompiler in haskell and was trying to figure out what high speed data structures were available.
fglock or maybe it could be optional, for a while 18:29
audreyt ekmett: you can try out HsJudy and give feedback :)
ekmett will do
pasteling "kolibrie" at 216.47.133.174 pasted "audreyt: extract.p6 and yapc_schedule.pm grammar" (24 lines, 320B) at sial.org/pbot/18091
clkao fglock: it's in perl5/, not good enough? 18:30
fglock clkao: I plan to send regular updates to cpan, so v6.pm depends on published modules - but adding it as optional is ok
clkao *nod* 18:31
fglock it's also ok to fork into a new dir, and then integrate back 18:32
clkao i will do that before v6 release with the emitter. right now there might still need some tweaks while connecting them
fglock feel free to fork, to make experiences
clkao: do you think a pure-perl Data::Bind is possible? 18:35
clkao fglock: no 18:36
fglock: it requires padwalker anyway
nothingmuch fglock: working on If nodes now
clkao and to do alias (is rw) you can't do it in pure perl
i spent some time with nick about that
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fglock clkao: re 'compile_p6grammar.pl' - kolibrie and scw know it better 18:41
audreyt kolibrie: write a test 18:42
kolibrie: currently pkg info is discarded from bridge 18:43
so instead of <yapc_schedule.speaker>
simply write <speaker>
kolibrie audreyt: ok 18:44
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fglock class - back in a few hours & 18:48
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kolibrie audreyt: that worked for <speaker>, but when I changed it to <talk>, I now get: *** Cannot parse PGE: <talk> 19:15
*** Error: Name 'talk' not found
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cwest So I was thinking, can I just use continuations to keep state between ipc calls, instead of running an interactive shell (long running process) in order to clone tryruby? 19:49
s/ipc/rpc/ 19:50
xerox I think the idea is right.
cwest That sounds ominous. Does the implementation seem possible?
xerox You tell us :) 19:51
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buu buubot: modules 19:57
svnbot6 r10995 | clkao++ | my branch of PC::P6 to support Data::Bind. 19:58
buu er
buubot buu: modules are good because you don't have to design the code.
cwest xerox: Suppose so. :-)
svnbot6 r10996 | clkao++ | Emit subroutine signatures as data::bind signature support. 20:01
r10996 | clkao++ | There's still some weirdness in my grammar, like signature without invocant
r10996 | clkao++ | wouldn't work.
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clkao froh-doh: please take a look at my grammar if you have time. it seems i can't have the invocant optionally matched as empty 20:03
gr
fglock, i meant. but he's off
svnbot6 r10997 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : corrected mis-spellings of 'subset' 20:07
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daxim hello world 20:28
Debolaz2 hello puny earthling
daxim where in the source tree is the pod which generates pugs::hack on cpan? 20:29
I mean this one: search.cpan.org/~autrijus/Perl6-Pug...s/hack.pod
lambdabot Title: "pugs::hack - How to hack on Pugs - search.cpan.org"
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dduncan ?eval 1 20:36
20:36 evalbot_10994 is now known as evalbot_10997
evalbot_10997 1 20:36
dduncan ?eval for zip((4,5);(6,7)) -> ($foo,$bar) { say "$foo, $bar"; }
evalbot_10997 OUTPUT[4, 6 5, 7 ] undef
dduncan ?eval for each((4,5);(6,7)) -> $foo,$bar { say "$foo, $bar"; }
evalbot_10997 Error: No such sub: "&each"
dduncan seems 'cat' isn't implemented yet either 20:39
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cwest has extracted evalbothelper.p5 into Pugs::Run::Safe, with multi-callable exec() method. 20:58
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cwest I need a bit of training on how continuations work in Perl 6, and if I can continue across processes by saving state in some way. 21:15
And if I can add to the execution dynamically. 21:16
s/Perl 6/Pugs/ I suppose
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cwest I need more brain. 21:24
svnbot6 r10998 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : added more subset types, added equality comparison methods
21:27 Debolaz2 is now known as Debolaz
svnbot6 r10999 | Sage++ | Added new node types, started work on parsing heredoc nodes. 21:27
r11000 | Sage++ | Updating to show completed translations. 21:30
r11001 | Sage++ | Added info on some more nodetypes.
21:31 szbalint_ is now known as szbalint
kolibrie would someone with commit access update the S02 heredoc examples to include a semicolon after END? 21:33
cognominal cwest: why, your brain is already dual core :) 21:34
kolibrie search for the text: Heredocs are no longer written with
mauke does anyone know why I'm getting this error in make: "conflict: module `Data.ByteString' is present in multiple packages: pugs-fps-0.7, fps-0.7"? 21:41
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daxim I got that too because I checked out a new checkout and it's built twice. make clean and then make again should fix it 21:43
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mauke remaking... 21:45
svnbot6 r11002 | kolibrie++ | added tests for grammar namespaces in rules and tokens 21:48
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mauke daxim: thanks! it worked 22:17
daxim good
here, the mauke, have a trophy
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svnbot6 r11003 | fglock++ | v6.pm - moose.pl compiles correctly (rw & ro class variables); 23:06
r11003 | fglock++ | - added a compiler env
justatheory audreyt: You around? 23:15
svnbot6 r11004 | audreyt++ | * p6ast.hs draft 23:24
dduncan anyone who's at the hackathon, I would appreciate feedback to my new p6l post on Mapping.does(Set) and otherwise about declaring and using those types 23:32
back in a bit ... 23:33
clkao audreyt: if you are bored, there's other thing for you to look, caller().package is parsed as caller(package) 23:50
(test.pm)
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