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Summer of Perl | 6.2.12 released! | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | www.treehugger.com/files/th_images/paradigm.jpg Set by nothingmuch on 12 July 2006. |
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| dduncan | for those oscon people looking here and not on #oscon@perl.org, ... tonight, in room E141 (OSCAMP) at 6:53pm is the Portland Perl mongers meeting ... see pdx.pm.org/kwiki/ ... it has unfortunately not been advertised very well, appearing only on the OSCAMP schecule ... it should be a good place for Perl folks to meet up and recognize each other, than can be under the larger crowds and many spread out sessions ... unfortunately this confl | 00:37 | |
| lambdabot | Title: PortlandPerlMongers - Kwiki | ||
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| rlb3 | how badly are the perl 6 essentials books out of date? | 00:46 | |
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| svnbot6 | r11779 | fglock++ | v6 - quote bareword in class-method call | 01:05 | |
| r11779 | fglock++ | v6-Compiler - added t/01-native.t | |||
| clkao | fglock: why quote bareword? | 01:11 | |
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| svnbot6 | r11780 | clkao++ | util/prove6 | 02:18 | |
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| svnbot6 | r11781 | clkao++ | In double quote, extract "&?ROUTINE.name" but not "$*PID." | 02:36 | |
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| clkao | 920 tests pass | 03:22 | |
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| gaal | clkao: where is prove6? | 06:11 | |
| clkao | gaal: util | 06:13 | |
| gaal | where's the actual code? that file is 2 lines | ||
| clkao | code is in v6 | 06:14 | |
| gaal | url? | ||
| clkao | ?? | 06:19 | |
| what actual code? it's just normal perl5 bin/prove with extra lib paths. | |||
| gaal | ah | 06:20 | |
| clkao | so v6 is automatically loaded | ||
| gaal | okay. | ||
| I thought it was a perl 6 harness... | |||
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| glasser | clkao: inspirational blog entry, maybe i will do a bit of that :) | 11:22 | |
| does playing with v6 require a functional ghc install? | 11:23 | ||
| (darwinports ghc still doesn't support intel mac out of the box does it?) | |||
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| nothingmuch | morning | 11:32 | |
| marcus_ stalks nothingmuch | 11:35 | ||
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| nothingmuch waits for marcus_ to rape him in some alley | 11:43 | ||
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| markstos | v6 0.12 won't pass "make test" for me, I presume because Pugs-Compiler-Rule-0.12 is required, but not yet available on CPAN. | 11:50 | |
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| qmole | .2 | 12:04 | |
| oops | |||
| clkao | oh doh. i thought 0.12 was released | 12:13 | |
| so sorry. ping fglock if there's a chance. i won't be around much today | 12:14 | ||
| markstos | Sometimes search.cpan.org lags, but the other parts appeared. | ||
| Ok. Thanks for the response clkao. | |||
| glasser | ah, looks like you do need some ghc to do v6 stuff | 12:22 | |
| clkao | glasser: i don't think so | 12:32 | |
| glasser | well, pugs doesn't ship with a Makefile | ||
| and running perl Makefile.PL wants ghc | |||
| unless make build_perl5 is in some other directory? | |||
| markstos | glasser: cpan -i v6 worked for me. | 12:33 | |
| clkao | ah. no - but you can see that from makefile.pl and do it yourself trivially | ||
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| Dr_Pi | The INSTALL file calls for Parrot 0.4.6, but it hasn't been released yet. | 12:47 | |
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| agentzh | xinming: hi | 12:52 | |
| xinming | agentzh, hi... :-) | ||
| agentzh | you're still in Kunming? | 12:53 | |
| xinming | agentzh, yes, I am, :-) | ||
| are you also in Kunming? :-) | |||
| agentzh | heh | ||
| xinming | agentzh, haha, Never met a perl people in China in real life. :-/ | ||
| agentzh | nope, i'm in Zhenjiang, Jiangsu province. | ||
| xinming | agentzh, hmm, How do you know that I'm in Kunming currently? | 12:54 | |
| agentzh | here're a handful of perl hackers in my university | ||
| in fact i'm not sure. because you ever mentioned Kunming in this channel, i think | 12:55 | ||
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| xinming | hmm, I don't meet much, Maybe because I never go into univerisity... :( | 12:56 | |
| agentzh | currently i'm reading Perl 6 Synopses. I've found some typos and have reported them to p6-l. | ||
| audreyt is very responsive. | 12:57 | ||
| now i'm a perl 6 monger. | |||
| :) | |||
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| xinming | Yes. She'll fix bug and answer your question quickly. :-P | 12:58 | |
| agentzh | extremely quickly in fact. ;-) | ||
| hopefully i'll be able to help out fglock and clkao with the v6.pm stuff some time later | 12:59 | ||
| v6-alpha and PCR are really impressive. | 13:00 | ||
| xinming is newbie, and he can do nothing except writing test. :-/ | 13:01 | ||
| agentzh | IIRC you've been rather active on the Perl 6 land for some time already. :-) | ||
| i often see your name while lurking here and p6-l | 13:02 | ||
| and it seems to me you're 1 year older than i. :-) | |||
| xinming | but I'm not capable. :-/ | 13:06 | |
| agentzh | i don't think so. :=) | 13:07 | |
| xinming | agentzh, BTW, what are your version control system? | ||
| I mean, do you use subversion or svk? | |||
| agentzh | last year i was using svk. | ||
| but svk is very unstable on Win32. so i've switched back to SVN this year. | 13:08 | ||
| i'm a Win32 person. :=) | |||
| yesterday i "rant" on svk for that issue. | |||
| xinming | hmm, I'd say, If you use svk, and need bootstrap files for pugs and parrot, you can get it from perlcabal.org/~xinming/ | ||
| agentzh | I think that's okay because clkao's svk is mostly rant-driven. | ||
| wow, you're a cabal memenber now? | 13:09 | ||
| *member | |||
| xinming | svk is good, though, there are some tough bugs... eg. You can't use `svk push`, and then later using `svk -l push`, This will cause collision with server, in many commits. | 13:10 | |
| agentzh | looking... | ||
| xinming | I don't know if you ever encountered this problem. | 13:11 | |
| agentzh, account of perlcabal.org is easy to get... :-P | |||
| agentzh | i often encountered this kind of problems in the past | ||
| really? | |||
| xinming | agentzh, just /msg Juerd :-) | ||
| agentzh, or send mail to Juerd | |||
| agentzh | gotcha | ||
| i really hope i can obtain a feather account from Juerd because i'm behind a firewall most of the time and i need CGI:IRC | 13:12 | ||
| xinming | agentzh, but for now, I hardly use -l and --verbatim option, because these might screw up the svn server. | 13:13 | |
| agentzh | `svk push` is a source of pain. | ||
| xinming | agentzh, without -l and --verbatim, It won't be a big pain. | ||
| agentzh | i've used -l, i'm afraid. | 13:14 | |
| xinming | agentzh, don't mix these 2 kind of option, then, It's all ok, | ||
| agentzh | sorry, i've never used -l | ||
| i don't think so. :-/ | |||
| xinming | agentzh, yes, -l and normal push might screw up the svn server. at least, My server is ever screwed up. :-) | ||
| lost nothing though. | 13:15 | ||
| agentzh | but i've *never* used the -l option | ||
| and svk still misbehaved nearly every month | |||
| xinming | then, I don't know why. | ||
| agentzh | i'm wondering if it is a Win32-specific problem | 13:16 | |
| i'm guessing there're always much fewer svk's Win32 users | |||
| xinming | but the idea of svk is really good. working offline, and mirror repository is really powerful, which means, we don't need to connect to get the svn log. :-) | 13:17 | |
| agentzh | of course, svk is very very powerful. sadly it's unstable here. :( | ||
| i just feel safe while using svn since it has never driven me mad. | 13:18 | ||
| yes, getting svn log using an svn client really sucks. | |||
| xinming | agentzh, BTW, why don't you use Unix-like OS? | 13:20 | |
| hmm, xinming now needs to work, might reply not very soon. | |||
| agentzh | because it's hard to find a Unix-like box in my university | ||
| everyone here uses windows. | |||
| i have no choice. :=) | 13:21 | ||
| daxim | do you have your own computer? | 13:22 | |
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| agentzh | no, i don't | 13:22 | |
| daxim | hm. | ||
| agentzh | i'm always using others. | ||
| tweaking Perl on Win32 always needs significant efforts | 13:24 | ||
| for example, it's nontrivial to install CPAN modules (say, Jifty) to ActivePerl | |||
| so i've even ended up with an AgentPerl installer built for myself and happily all my classmates prefer it to plain ActivePerl. :=) | 13:26 | ||
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| daxim | what's the difference between them? | 13:26 | |
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| agentzh | i've installed many modules to ActivePerl (just like PXPerl). | 13:28 | |
| and i have made sure they *work* well together on Win32. | |||
| and i've also modified some modules to support Chinese encodings. | |||
| as well as many useful tools developed by myself. | 13:29 | ||
| daxim | I am intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter | 13:30 | |
| do you have a webpage with the details somewhere? | |||
| wolverian | vanillaperl! :) | ||
| fglock | Pugs-Compiler-Rule-0.12 sent to CPAN | 13:31 | |
| agentzh | daxim: sorry, there's not such a webpage. but i think you can download my AgentPerl from my personal page: | 13:32 | |
| yxy.ujs.edu.cn/images/index.html | |||
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| agentzh | wolverian: vanillaperl can't compile IRC::Run and GraphViz, i'm afraid. | 13:33 | |
| sorry, s/IRC:RUN/IPC::Run/ | |||
| daxim | trying to connect for 150 seconds now :( | 13:35 | |
| agentzh | sorry, the bandwith is very very limited. | ||
| daxim | doesn't help if I s/ujs/jsust/ | ||
| agentzh | you're not in China, right? | 13:36 | |
| daxim | no | ||
| agentzh | maybe you need a Chinese proxy. :( | ||
| i'm still a student and can't afford a server of my own. | 13:37 | ||
| yxy.ujs.edu.cn is my school's server. | |||
| too bad... | |||
| agentzh ... | 13:41 | ||
| agentzh is happy to see audreyt has applied all his patches sent to p6-l | 13:42 | ||
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| svnbot6 | r11782 | fglock++ | v6-Compiler - coerce:as from Match to AST, untested | 13:52 | |
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| svnbot6 | r11783 | scw++ | Pugs::Emitter::Rule::Parsec | 14:19 | |
| r11783 | scw++ | * sigspace implemented | |||
| r11783 | scw++ | * more \X syntax supported | |||
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| agentzh | audreyt, Timtoady: S04 line 459 says "A C<CATCH> block sees the lexical scope in which it defined, but the dynamic scope in which it is called, that is, as if it were called from the dynamic location that threw the exception. That is, ..." | 14:38 | |
| audreyt, TimToady: is the grammar of this senstence correct? | |||
| audreyt, TimToady: To be honest, I've got completely confused. | 14:39 | ||
| daxim | yes. the word "were" is in subjunctive mood. | ||
| agentzh | i know that part. | ||
| gaal | oughta be "in which it _is_ defined" (or was) | 14:40 | |
| agentzh | but does "but" mean there? | ||
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| agentzh | is the "but" leading a sentence or a phrase? | 14:40 | |
| s/but/rather than/, maybe? | 14:41 | ||
| hugues23 | would that not be rather: "A C<CATCH> block does not see the lexical scope in which it is defined, but ..." ? | ||
| agentzh | yes, i second gaal's opinion. | 14:42 | |
| gaal | no, the lexical scope it sees IS the one in which it is defined | ||
| dynamically, it's the dynamic callchain from the exception site. | |||
| hugues23 | gaal: ok, i must say that wording confuses me too ... | ||
| agentzh | gaal: does a CATCH block see the dynamical scope in which it is called? | 14:43 | |
| gaal | there could just as well have been an "and" instead of a "but" there. | 14:44 | |
| agentzh | and? okay, gotcha | ||
| hugues23 | gaal: that would help understanding, yes. | ||
| gaal | there are always both lexical and dynamic scopes. | ||
| hugues23 | s/understanding/my &/ | 14:45 | |
| agentzh | fair enough | ||
| gaal | the sentence is saying what is in each of those scopes. | ||
| hugues23 | gaal: got you. | ||
| agentzh | gaal: would please send a patch to p6-l or to audreyt and larry? | ||
| gaal | sure. | 14:46 | |
| agentzh | thanks. :D | ||
| hugues23 | ditto. | ||
| pasteling | "hugues23" at 158.50.204.4 pasted "compiling problem when 'making' svn pugs" (442 lines, 30.2K) at sial.org/pbot/18615 | 14:54 | |
| hugues23 | would anyone have an idea on how to "solve" it ? | 14:55 | |
| gaal | hugues23: looks like the main pugs built OK, it's the v6 stuff you got errors on. | ||
| hugues23 | gaal: that did'nt prevent me from "make install"ing, but i've had this error for a few days now ... | 14:56 | |
| gaal: i tried to have a look at the indicated file, but i don't grok rules yet ;-) | 14:57 | ||
| gaal | ping clkao/fglock about it | ||
| hugues23 | gaal: thank's, i'll try that. | 14:58 | |
| agentzh | gaal++ | 15:11 | |
| seen your mail to p6-l | |||
| jabbot | agentzh: I havn't seen your, agentzh | ||
| agentzh | hugues23: try to remove *.pmc and *.tc from your local directory? | 15:15 | |
| not sure though | 15:16 | ||
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| fglock | hughes23: re: sial.org/pbot/18615 - Pugs::Compiler::Rule won't install properly if you have a previous version in blib/ - you need to 'make clean' | 15:22 | |
| lambdabot | Title: Paste #18615 from "hugues23" at 158.50.204.4 | ||
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| agentzh | for anyone who knows, what does the word "unhindered" mean please? S04 makes use of that. | 15:24 | |
| i can't find it in the dictionaries available in my place. | 15:25 | ||
| [particle] | hinder is to slow down, to impede | ||
| agentzh | [particle]: thanks a lot! | ||
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| svnbot6 | r11784 | fglock++ | v6-Compiler - s/class/role/ but it still looks wrong | 15:46 | |
| fglock | if AST 'nodes' are roles, then the return block in rules should be like { $/ does v6::AST::NBit } instead of { $/.as(v6::AST::NBit) } ? | 15:50 | |
| { return $/ ... } | 15:51 | ||
| aufrank | that looks right to me | ||
| fglock | what is the op to test if an object 'does' a role? | 15:56 | |
| aufrank | cando? | 15:57 | |
| fglock | aufrank: I think 'cando' only tests for methods | 15:59 | |
| aufrank: I think the '.does' method is what I need | 16:01 | ||
| svnbot6 | r11785 | fglock++ | v6-Compiler - s/.as()/does/ - AST nodes are role'd Matches | 16:07 | |
| aufrank | It's one of the unfortunate bits of english polysemy-- using the same verb to assert doing and to test doing | 16:09 | |
| thanks for the clarification on cando | |||
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| svnbot6 | r11786 | fglock++ | v6-Compiler - updated docs, license; | 16:37 | |
| r11786 | fglock++ | - '42' is a 'NUint' | |||
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| svnbot6 | r11787 | fglock++ | v6-Compiler - 'make clean' options | 16:46 | |
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| svnbot6 | r11788 | markstos++ | Solve the need-GHC-just-to-play-with-v6 problem. | 22:30 | |
| r11788 | markstos++ | See use.perl.org/~clkao/journal/30407 for a description and | |||
| r11788 | markstos++ | the specific problem I posted in a comment there. | |||
| r11788 | markstos++ | The solution: | |||
| r11788 | markstos++ | Instead of: | |||
| r11788 | markstos++ | perl Makefile.PL && make build_perl5 # Requires GHC! | |||
| r11788 | markstos++ | Just: | |||
| r11788 | markstos++ | ./make_build_perl5 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Journal of clkao (1687) | ||
| svnbot6 | r11788 | markstos++ | There is room for refinement: | ||
| r11788 | markstos++ | - This script is dumb about finding a good "make" to use. | |||
| r11788 | markstos++ | - perhaps it makes sense to roll in "util/src_to_blib.pl" ? | |||
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