Summer of Perl | 6.2.12 released! | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | www.treehugger.com/files/th_images/paradigm.jpg
Set by nothingmuch on 12 July 2006.
[particle] is there a MANIFEST for pugs? 00:05
[particle] is adding prove6.bat so windows folks can C as well
svnbot6 r11789 | particle++ | add prove6.bat so windows users can test perl6 today! 00:10
r11789 | particle++ | run C<util\prove6 -v t/> or your favorite C<prove> command.
00:16 Bit-Man joined 00:27 nekokak joined
clkao whoot 00:30
audreyt particle++ 00:37
audreyt finally finished outline for her talk 00:38
just need to fill code in
clkao hi audreyt
how's it going?
audreyt going well 00:39
care to review my draft a bit?
(uploading)
it's curious that I'm hacking Jifty and you are hacking Perl6 :)
mm bad influences on each other 00:40
pugs.blogs.com/talks/oscon-rhox-draft.pdf
(very early draft) 00:41
00:41 lollan joined
clkao audreyt: seen my use.perl journal? you might want to link to that if you happen to do pugs blogging 00:42
jabbot clkao: I havn't seen my, clkao
clkao it kind of excites some people ;)
audreyt clkao: I already did that last night ;)
pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2006/07/v6pm_920_tests_.html
clkao gr
alright
audreyt it is very exciting
clkao sorry i didn't notice because i was drinking ;)
Dr_Pi How long is t/perl5/method.t supposed to take? It appears to be hanging. 00:45
audreyt then it's prbably hanging
audreyt goes filling in more code so the slides can make sense 00:46
clkao audreyt: oh i meant to ask you something
audreyt mmm?
clkao isa_ok({ 'one' => 1 }, 'Hash');
how is this Hash not Code ?
00:49 pochi joined 00:53 lollan joined
audreyt it's always Code 00:53
some Code are folded into Hash
See S06 00:54
Anonymous hashes vs blocks
C<{...}> is always a block. However, if it is completely empty or
consists of a single list, the first element of which is either a hash
or a pair, it is executed immediately to compose a Hash object.
clkao audreyt: see t/02-test-pm/1-basic.t 00:55
mmmm 00:56
ok the rule is a bit crazy
audreyt indeed 00:57
implementation is at src/Pugs/Parser/Util.hs
clkao what tio do?
audreyt line 159
extractHash :: Exp -> Maybe Exp
clkao i can impelemnt that in perl emit easiy
but i just don't feel very sane
clkao ponders about using autobox 00:59
00:59 dduncan joined
dduncan ping audreyt 01:04
I see you last posted 7 mins ago, so I don't imagine you're far away from seeing this? 01:05
clkao dduncan: i htink you should just ask whatever yo uwanted to ask 01:06
dduncan yes .
audreyt, where are you now .
I'd like to meet when we can 01:07
I'm currently in E141 I think, where OSCAMP is 01:08
in an hour olr less, for this evening's events, I've marked a seat right in front of the podium
for Larry's Onion and Damian's Davinci Code 01:11
I'll save you a good seat if you want it
I marked the second row, leftmost seat 01:12
(exactly where I sat last year) 01:13
doh
clkao gr 01:14
01:25 xdg joined 01:26 myavuzselim left 01:38 hikozaemon joined 01:42 dolmans joined, vel joined, wolverian joined 01:47 chip___ joined, PerlJam joined, leo joined, pmurias joined, pmichaud joined, webmind joined, Juerd joined 01:48 dduncan joined 01:56 markstos joined 01:58 dduncan joined
pasteling "markstos" at 12.176.101.89 pasted "I'm trying to port CGI::Application to Perl6, but I can't get it to even compile. It dies with an out of memory error. Click for details." (9 lines, 744B) at sial.org/pbot/18626 02:00
markstos Yup. I wonder if it could be solved by using a lazy data structure in Pugs::Runtime::Rule, so it doesn't try to put so much into memory at once. 02:01
02:06 justatheory joined 02:12 chip___ is now known as chip 02:29 diederich joined
diederich yes 02:29
02:30 Diederich joined
Diederich anyone home? 02:31
rodi nobody here but us chickens...
obra We're all in larry's keynote 02:32
Diederich oh cool!
so this is where the magic happens? :-)
how's the keynote going? I'd give my left eye-tooth to see one of his talks. 02:33
Khisanth channeling Odin? :) 02:36
Diederich well, at least someone tell me when it's over! 02:38
02:40 markstos left
ingy hola 02:44
Diederich howdy!
ingy :) 02:45
Diederich is this the author of IO::All?
ingy oh... yes this is
who is that?
Diederich (You'll have to excuse me, this is the first time I've been in direct contact with a lot of Perl luminaries)
dduncan go to #oscon on perl.org
live Larry commentary
Diederich o?
dduncan I think they are viceoing it this time 02:46
Diederich I've been using Perl since 1993, and I've never talked to any of you guys. :)
n
SamB dduncan: then who is that TimToady person?
... or are you implicating that he can be in two places at a time? 02:47
Diederich dduncan, what port is IRC running on perl.org? 02:48
dduncan the normal one? 02:50
6667
Diederich telnet perl.org 6667
that gives me no route to host :(
dduncan try irc.perl.org specifically 02:52
anyway, Larry's onion just ended
Diederich sorry I'm so dense, it's been a very, very long time since I've used IRC
dduncan he also used some of audreyt's snazzy diagrams 02:53
Diederich I can't wait to read all about it
be back in a little while 02:56
TreyHarris is all of Pugs quintuply-licensed under the five licenses shown under LICENSE/, or are parts of it licensed differently from other parts? 03:12
03:15 xdg joined
dduncan different parts 03:20
03:20 amnesiac joined
dduncan see the README, I think 03:20
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dolmans "abc" ~~ ("abc","123") makes false in pugs, is the language changed or i misunderstood? 05:10
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tessier__ Wow 05:13
So...why are 119 people interested in a perl interpreter written in haskell?
dolmans tessier__: i am interested in a perl 6 interpreter, it occasionally implemented in haskell. 05:15
tessier__ You mean it is coincidentally implemented in haskell? 05:16
dolmans no, i just don't care. 05:17
tessier__ hrm
There is still a perl6 interpreter implemented in C right?
dolmans don't know it. 05:18
05:21 justatheory joined
Kattana perl6 is implimented in magic and pure thought. 05:22
dolmans :-P
FurnaceBoy I guess the position of "Perl6 in C" implementor is open, tessier__ 05:25
tessier__ So Larry Wall is a haskell coder now? 05:26
Or is perl6 not a canonical perl?
tessier__ is confused
FurnaceBoy if Larry's involvement makes it canonical, it's canonical :-) 05:27
in fact, that's a great adjective.
the Synopses are the Canon :-)
traecer The Perl 6 interpreter will eventually be coded to run in the Parrot virtual machine
But there is also currently Pugs, which implements some (a lot) of Perl 6 in Haskell 05:28
The short answer to why 2 efforts is the Parrot VM was taking too long 05:29
Pugs allows people to start working with some Perl 6 today, so when the final Perl 6 interpreter is ready, people won't be lost
TreyHarris ?eval "abc" ~~ ("abc","123") 05:44
oops, where did evalbot go?
dolmans: your thinking it should be true matches my reading of S03. at least written as ("abc", "123") ~~ "abc" definitely should--it's right there in S03. the "matching code", 'any(("abc","123")) eq "abc"', *does* work 05:47
dolmans: it's :todo 05:50
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TreyHarris dolman: see svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/t/ope...artmatch.t at "/Array\s+Str\s+array\s+contains\s+string\s+match" 05:53
dolmans TreyHarris: yes, and "abc" ~~ any("abc","123") works either.
dolmans browsing
TreyHarris dolmans: works too? or doesn't work either? 05:54
dolmans works too.
05:59 buetow joined
tessier__ FurnaceBoy: Yeah, canonical is a cool word. :) 06:03
tessier__ likes to sound erudite
Although I eschew obfuscation.
traecer: There are 2 implementations of perl 6? One in Haskell and one for the parrot virtual machine right? Is parrot itself the language in which perl6 is being implemented in for the parrot virtual machine? 06:04
Parrot is taking too long so they went with haskell and it was implemented faster...so why continue with parrot? 06:05
Kattana parrots goal isnt to implement perl6. 06:14
traecer Parrot's goal is to be a virtual machine for several dynamically-typed languages, including Perl 6 06:17
Plus, Haskell is slow, from what I hear
dolmans p5's syntax `for $x (@a) {}' is gone? i'm annoyed typing for @a -> $x 06:18
traecer And also, one goal for Perl 6 is to ultimately self-host (though that's a looonnnggg way off)
Actually, I thought for was still there
oh I see what you mean. 06:19
I'm not sure, I haven't read the Synopses lately
TreyHarris dolmans: for takes two arguments, the thing it's iterating and a block (possibly with arguments). so yes, you need to write the pointy sub form; the other form won't parse. just like you can't write "grep { ... } @array" anymore. 06:20
you could use a placeholder, though. "for @a { ... $^x ... }" 06:22
tessier__, traecer: pugs targets many interpreters, including parrot (and javascript and perl5) as well as the haskell runtime. the two implementations have effectively merged, AFAICT. 06:25
dolmans TreyHarris: yes i can. though i prefer the p5 for syntax's simplicity, i must coordinate myself to p6's arrow culture.
:-P 06:26
buetow At least no moew arrows in OOP :) $foo.method();
s/moew/more/
TreyHarris dolmans: the syntax was a special case. perl 6 is all about normalization.
traecer: btw, haskell isn't slow when properly used. 06:27
tessier__ yeah, haskell seems to fair exceptionally well in the programming language shootout
dolmans TreyHarris: i think so too.
traecer I remember speed being one of the complaints a long time ago. I haven't really kept up with P6 development lately 06:28
dolmans tessier__: in my opinion haskell is suit for build a grammer parser, so it is sense to implement p6 in haskell. if you want to use it daily, it is a disaster. 06:30
tessier__ dolmans: Why a disaster for daily use? Lots of people seem to be loving it. Lindows recently announced they would be standardizing on it.
dolmans in daily use, you just want to do your work but not to do monad trick. 06:31
IMHO 06:32
TreyHarris when forced to be a procedural language, yes, haskell's a disaster. :-)
dolmans TreyHarris: this world is not a pure functional world, yes? there are too many status changed rapidly. 06:33
TreyHarris in any case, i'd ask audreyt her opinion, but i think that the intent is that, once p6-on-p6 is able to self-host, that development towards release would move from haskell to perl 6 06:35
dolmans perhaps haskell suit for building large scale software which i can't write.:-P 06:36
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nothingmuch moosage 08:14
obra_work hey 08:18
08:19 obra_work is now known as obra
gaal wapititude 08:24
nothingmuch: have you built obby 0.4 successfully? HEAD seems to be broken on some dependency, or maybe I'm not finding all the maint-build scripts I need to run. 08:25
(missing inc/config.hpp in net6)
08:26 audreyt joined
nothingmuch gaal: gentoo 08:28
obra gobby made me very sad 08:29
gaal/nothingmuch, you heard that larry described moose as one of his favorite perl6ish projects? 08:30
nothingmuch gaal: awesome! 08:32
err
obra: awesome!
but tell that to stevan =)
obra I will 08:33
but I'm sleeping soon
gaal nothingmuch: wahuddya mean, gentoo?
nothingmuch gaal: i meant gentoo compiled it for me
gaal nothingmuch: okay. was that a tarball or a checkout? I should probably just get the tarball. 08:34
nothingmuch package system 08:36
gaal k
nothingmuch e.g. apt-get install gobby?
gaal nothingmuch: yes yes; debian didn't have 0.4, is all. 08:39
lumi Morning nothingmuch & gaal 08:40
gaal hey lumi
lumi gaal: ebby is completely missing obby's syncing brains! 08:41
gaal suck.
lumi Which is why it broke so badly
Yeah, I'm writing it now
gaal ooh 08:42
08:43 hugues23 joined
lumi Hopefully I'll have sth by tomorrow 08:43
gaal looks like we'll have an obbython, not a mopathon :)
lumi Mayhap, but an obby's a terrible thing to waste 08:46
What should I read about mop now? 08:50
gaal Moose, Moose::Class, src/Pugs/MOP 08:51
but bug nothingmuch and stevan about it :)
re: obby, surely
08:54 nothingmuch joined
gaal what's the ./configure switch to add an extra c include path? 08:56
ah, CFLAGS=-I... 08:58
nothingmuch oh! 08:59
i have 0.3
09:04 revision17_ joined
gaal we want to target 4, don't we 09:04
I've built obby ok, but still futzing around with sobby 09:05
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dolmans is there another way to do `sort { $^a <=> $^b } @array', the $^ is tricky but hurt hands. 09:55
wolverian @array.sort(&infix:{'<=>'}) or so, I expect 09:56
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
wolverian (dunno about current pugs)
dolmans wolverian: yes, it worked, i like that. 09:57
wolverian svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/Perl6...ctions.pod
dolmans no, i don't like that syntax, it reminds me sort is method of array, i just hate oo. :-P
wolverian sort @array: ...; 09:58
sort {} @array works too, I think 09:59
gaal dolmans: what is it you don't like? the ^ ? sort -> $a, $b { $a <=> $b } @array
wolverian sort {+$_} @arr; is the same too
dolmans gaal: yes, ^ hurt hands and make me sicks. your version is understoodable to me. 10:01
wolverian: your new version sounds good too,
xinming prefers `sort @array, {}` then, we don't need to do sort on a closure in OO way. :-P
wolverian sorting a closure sounds rather useless :-) 10:02
xinming { $^a <=> $^b }.sort(@a) is ugly...
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gaal you can also avoid the anonymous comparator entirely. sort &mycmp, @array 10:02
xinming the reasonable one is, @array.sory({ $^a <=> $^b }); 10:03
wolverian wish there was a shorter syntax for bare infix ops than &infix:{'<=>'}
xinming gaal, but, for OO way, I think @array.sory is more reasonable. 10:04
wolverian that's what we have, yeah
gaal xinming: I thought dolmans was worried about the use of placeholder vars.
xinming wolverian, I think you can bind `>_<` to `<=>` though, It doesn't save much typing, but you can type faster... :-) 10:05
wolverian xinming, true enough. :) 10:06
dolmans i remember my days on emacs, i rebind all @$%, :-P
xinming well, In fact, typing @$% these character isn't a big problem if you are familiar with keyboard. 10:07
dolmans perhaps my fingers is too hard.
s/is/were/ 10:08
xinming BTW, After perl 6 released... I'd think to make True type using :-) and False type using ':-('
:-P
dolmans sounds a good idea. 10:09
xinming yes, It might be emotional version of perl 6. 10:10
and also, the devel version... :-)
10:11 chris2 joined
xinming s/devel/evil 10:12
dolmans and something else? perhaps orz for exception?
xinming feels sorry for his poor English.
dolmans, yes.
I ever suggest that orz is used for running a system command
dolmans :-P
xinming "cat /etc/shadow".orz; :-)
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xinming Since bare words are considered sub calls in perl 6, so, will this be valid? (a => 'letter')? 10:35
I mean the a in left side. it's a key, will it obey the bareword-closure rule? 10:36
wolverian => is special afaik 10:38
xinming => is pair constructor, then, I wonder, what the proto of left hand side is... 10:40
wolverian told you it's magic! :)
xinming supper time... bbl. 10:41
well, I don't think there would be magic wand for every perl grammer... ;)
I'm writing test, So, I just want to be sure about this.
and %hash util method in pugs lacks test.
Juerd wolverian: Every "special" in Perl 6 has some kind of *normal* grammar or prototype :) 10:46
wolverian: In that sense, things aren't so special anymore.
RFC: rename prefix:<=> to prefix:Ā« >> Ā» 10:48
>> has a visual association with various "next" symbols 10:49
Is less ugly combined with assignment ($foo = =$bar versus $foo = >>$bar)
AFAICT, doesn't clash 10:50
(terms aren't hyperable, are they?) 10:53
gaal &prefix:<ā˜> ::= method ($fh:) { $fh.close } 10:59
&prefix:Ā« >> Ā» ::= method ($fh:) { $fh.seek(0, :end) } 11:00
Juerd Hmm? 11:01
gaal fastforward :)
clkao hurrah. there will be devel::cover hackathon
Juerd Are you serious?
gaal no :)
Juerd Ok :)
clkao 4
Juerd I was :)
nothingmuch eyes gall 11:17
nothingmuch smiles
(suspiciously!)
11:19 agentzh joined
gaal mooses 11:19
agentzh grins 11:20
nothingmuch muahahahaa! 11:24
theorbtwo grins conspiritorally. 11:28
xerox audrey slides are terrific :) 11:50
agentzh the slides are finished already? 11:58
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xerox Nope 12:18
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gaal nothingmuch: all the jupiter stuff is #if 0'ed... 12:43
nothingmuch ugh' 12:44
let's stick with the annotated example then
gaal oh. no: it's just shoved into the .hpp file :( 12:45
nothingmuch hmm?
y'know what?
we can just harass the authors on IRC =)
gaal d'you know ehere they are?
I looked for a channel but didn't find one. 12:46
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gaal re: hpp: the code isn't in the cpp files, it's in ../inc/*.hpp 12:46
It's the wonderful "inline all" mode of c/c++ development :)
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nothingmuch gaal: www.0x539.de/members.html 13:09
lambdabot Title: [ 0x539 dev group - Members ]
xerox Obby? Obby? 13:14
gaal nothingmuch: there's one other person besides me there now :/ 13:23
xerox: nothingmuch and I want to write a vim plugin 13:24
and lumi is fixing the one for emacs
xerox Yes, we were going to try that with shapr today
gaal that=ebby? 13:25
xerox It would be really nice to have some open source collaborative editing tool which Works(tm)
gaal gobby (the reference implementation) does... but the editor itself isn't $FAVORITE 13:26
xerox: does #haskell have a log? 13:29
13:29 fglock joined
xerox gaal: yes 13:29
@where logs
lambdabot tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/ meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=haskell
gaal thanks :)
fglock gaal: do you know of a plain english description of how the perl6 code emitter should work? 13:34
13:35 agentzh joined
gaal sorry, no. and not a nonplain description, either 13:37
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fglock I want to write a sample emitter for the nodes already in p6-on-p6, so that I can test the data flow 13:39
it should compile things like '1' 13:40
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agentzh fglock: is there much room to optimize P-C-R even further? 13:48
fglock agentzh: sure - there is a partial rewrite going on in misc/pX/fglock 13:50
agentzh fglock: great!
fglock I've not being working on it because I'm getting busy with p6-on-p6 13:51
agentzh i'll look closer into PCR when i finished reading the synopsese
fglock I've stopped in rewriting the numbered captures - that's pretty tough 13:52
gaal fglock, for now yaml-dump the nodes?
agentzh i can imagine. :=)
fglock agentzh: most of the other tests pass
agentzh fglock: okay 13:53
fglock gaal: I want to write the compiler framework, so that people can work on specific sections 13:54
gaal: so it needs an optimizer and an emitter, even if they don't do much
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fglock gaal: I guess I'll use a multi sub to dispatch on $node.does 13:56
gaal fglock: reasonable. in haskell, it'd be a pattern match which is is a similar thing. 13:59
agentzh GC == Garbage Collection? 14:05
fglock agentzh: yes 14:06
agentzh fglock: how about DBC? 14:08
S04 says "C<POST> blocks are evaluated after everything else, to guarantee that even C<LEAVE> blocks can't violate DBC."
what is DBC there?
Database Constraints?
nothingmuch '/w 12 14:10
fglock maybe 'design by contract'
agentzh fglock: Hmm, very likely 14:11
nothingmuch yes, fglock is correct
PRE and POST in design by contract are hooks that validate at the start/end of methods (and in Perl 6 any blocks) that the input and output are correct
ideally DBC involves exporting a "contract" of declarative constraints
which are then used to generate the pre/post hooks during development 14:12
agentzh aye
nothingmuch the point is that PRE/POST run at the very ends
since enter/leave may affect the predicate in e.g. PRE and POST which verifies that this block can be invoked or was did what it was supposed to do 14:13
agentzh if it was not supposed to do, an exception is thrown, right?
* if it is not what supposed to do 14:15
agentzh is making a patch to S04... 14:17
fglock I'm making the directory tree for p6-on-p6 - I've got Grammar/ for the parser, Emitter/ for the code generator; what would be a good name for a place to put optimizers and other ast transformations? 14:19
[particle] Optimizer/ 14:20
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fglock thanks :) 14:20
[particle] why don't you call the passer dir Parser/ ?
14:21 vel joined
fglock it's called Grammar in the other compilers, so I'm just reusing the name 14:21
agentzh what will happen to "print if $foo" if there's a user-defined prefix:<if>?
[particle] the result of C<if $foo> will be printed 14:23
(i expect)
fglock the problem is that 'if' is a valid 'expression terminator'
[particle] fglock: that's what's confused me so far... the grammar is just an input format/file
fglock: the parser applies the grammar to the input stream 14:24
agentzh [particle]: currently S04 claims that it's a syntax error and i think it's odd too.
[particle] agentzh: the best way to find out is to write a test :) 14:25
agentzh :)
will do
fglock agentzh: also, what happens if you define prefix:<;> ? 14:26
agentzh fglock: wow, that's really scary. testing... 14:27
[particle] what is ; defined as... term?
fglock ';' can be a parameter that you pass to the expression parser, that tells it what it should expect to end the expression 14:29
agentzh proto prefix:<if> ($arg) { say $args; } 14:30
does it look sane?
i got syntax error when using pugs
[particle] $arg => $args
agentzh okay 14:31
but still the same error...
***
unexpected "{"
expecting comment, operator, ":", ",", postfix conditional, postfix loop, po
stfix iteration, ";" or end of input
at test.p6 line 3, column 26
fglock [particle]: I think it is more like 'the compiler applies the grammar to the input stream' - the 'compiler' is the front-end program to the other modules
[particle] the parser loads the grammar and extracts data from the input stream 14:32
fglock mm, the Grammar directory only contains grammars anyway 14:34
agentzh I second [particle]'s opinion, Parser/ sounds better than Grammar/ 14:35
[particle] fglock: well, then that does sound appropriate
if it contains grammar files
there should be a module called Parser, which does the grammar loading and input processing 14:36
agentzh i'm wondering if pugs supports operator overloading...
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agentzh gives up 14:38
audreyt ?eval sub infix:<+> (Str $x, Str $y) { $x ~ $y }; "jifty " + "RHOX" 14:41
oy
agentzh audreyt: s/sub/proto/?
nothingmuch gaal: 21:50 or 22:50 ?
(arrival at train station) 14:42
audreyt s/sub/mult/
if you want other + to still work
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agentzh audreyt: S03 makes use of the "proto prefix:<...>" syntax 14:42
audreyt agentzh: proto is the prototype of multis
you declare a proto once
then you amend it with multis
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agentzh audreyt: gotcha 14:43
14:43 svnbot6 joined, glasser joined
audreyt ?eval infix:<+> (Str $x, Str $y) { $x ~ $y }; "jifty " + "RHOX" 14:43
evalbot_11793 Error: unexpected "$" expecting comment, "(", ":", operator or ")"
audreyt ?eval multi infix:<+> (Str $x, Str $y) { $x ~ $y }; "jifty " + "RHOX"
evalbot_11793 "jifty RHOX"
audreyt there we go.
?eval multi infix:<CONCAT_WITH> (Str $x, Str $y) { $x ~ $y }; "jifty " CONCAT_WITH "RHOX"
evalbot_11793 "jifty RHOX"
audreyt as you can see, perl6 doesn't merely have "operator overloading" 14:44
but actually you can throw random operators at it.
agentzh but why can't pugs even recognize "proto prefix:<->"?
audreyt: yes, i've just defined a "foo" prefix operator. :=)
audreyt because you didn't write a test for it :) 14:45
[particle] ?eval multi infix:<super cool> (Str $x, Str $y) { $x ~ $y }; "jifty " super cool "RHOX"
evalbot_11793 "jifty RHOX"
[particle] ooh, embedded whitespace in ops. that's fun!
agentzh yes!
audreyt [particle]: perfect for DSLs
agentzh: write a test for proto_subs.t in t/subroutines?
if it's not tested, it doesn't happen :) 14:46
agentzh ?eval multi prefix:<if> ($args) { say @arg; }
evalbot_11793 undef
agentzh oops
audreyt (see multi_subs.t in t/subroutines/ for how to write it)
svnbot6 r11794 | fglock++ | v6-Compiler - added HACKING file
agentzh ?eval multi prefix:<if> ($arg) { say $arg }; print if 123; 14:47
evalbot_11793 OUTPUT[123 1] Bool::True
agentzh audreyt: okay
?eval print if 123;
evalbot_11793 OUTPUT[] Bool::True
audreyt the ?eval doesn't carry context
from one line to another
agentzh audreyt: is it a bug?
audreyt no 14:48
fglock audreyt: would you comment on what I currently have in v6-Compiler? it's mostly an empty framework, to be filled-in
audreyt if it preserves context from line to line
amnesiac lurks
audreyt it will turn into a MUD, or a MOO, of some kind
nothingmuch audreyt: when is/was your talk?
agentzh S04 claims that "print if 123" will be a syntax error if there's a prefix:<if> defined by the user
audreyt nothingmuch: in 6 hours
so I actually need to shut network down and work on it
agentzh: test that too
and link to the spec using L<> syntax
(see other tests for now)
s/now/how/
agentzh will do 14:49
audreyt yay
agentzh++
agentzh :)
nothingmuch audreyt: 6 hours? that's forever ;-)
audreyt fglock: I think it's sane. I also agree that having it run from end-to-end in both Hs and P5 is important
fglock: because then both can migrate piecemeal into it 14:50
nothingmuch good luck!
audreyt collaborative de-scaffolding
fglock audreyt: yes - and Parrot too :)
audreyt well, yeah, but someone needs to work out MMD and metaobject protocol for Parrot before that can happen
audreyt looks at [particle] :) 14:51
[particle] looks around
[particle] has nowhere to hide
fglock audreyt: we could write the libs in Perl6 and emit to Parrot
[particle] audreyt: the discussions have started (sunday at pre-oscon parrot hackathon)
xinming audreyt, hmm, (a => 'a') is this valid?
audreyt fglock: sure, it's already done that way in pugs -CPIR
xinming: yes
xinming audreyt, since a isn't quoted. 14:52
audreyt, hmm, is '=>' an infix?
fglock so we could just reuse the pugs-emitted libs
xerox audreyt: the slides are great :)
fglock for the bootstrap
audreyt fglock: but the emitted PIR still has to somehow to MMD
and somehow observe the .meta protocol
otherwise you don't have a target to emit to
i.e. it's the equivalent to Sub::Multi and Class::MOP layer that v6.pm uses in its targetting 14:53
otherwise we're stuck in perl4 level emitting
the same situation as the current pugs -CPIR is in
TreyHarris agentzh: to return to the question you asked which was never answered (what should failure to meet DBC criteria do, throw an exception?): the usual answer is "yes, when developing and testing, but you can usually disable DBC assertions completely when running in prod, since they're supposed to be complete and thus are often quite expensive"
audreyt in any case... I'll be back and around more after my talk :) 14:54
xerox: ooh thanks :D
*wave* &
TreyHarris audreyt: good luck!
xinming audreyt, bye. :-)
fglock lunch &
audreyt fglock: (but I agree we should use gaal+'s work to make the PIR emitter and AST available to P6)
(and emit whatever we can to PIR that way) 14:55
amnesiac PEER and ASST 14:57
agentzh xinming: the left side of => gets auto-quote according to S02 or S03.
*autoquoted
xinming agentzh, Ok, thanks
agentzh ...if the LHS of => is a bare word 14:58
xinming: np :)
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pasteling "agentzh" at 221.208.173.84 pasted "Here's my patch to S04. Please do some sanity check before I sent it to p6-l" (199 lines, 8.7K) at sial.org/pbot/18632 15:02
agentzh oops! s/sent/send/ 15:03
cjeris agentzh: 150, 821, 876, 899 appear to contain fresh typos - dropped out words? 15:06
agentzh cjeris: looking...
oh, that's my bad... 15:07
cjeris: thanks for pointing them out.
cjeris np 15:08
nothingmuch clkao: are you awesome? 15:15
TreyHarris nothingmuch: isn't that the sort of determination that's usually made extrinsically? 15:18
nothingmuch TreyHarris: i'm entrapping himn
if he says no i can give him a way to be awesome 15:19
and if he says yes then he has to show me how
and in both ways i get the same benefit
TreyHarris ah, and if he says "i don't know, you tell me?"
nothingmuch then i give him two options
=)
regardless of the current state if he does what I want he will become awesome, and if he doesn't he will lose awesomeness 15:20
so ... =)
but sshhh, don't tell him, i want him to fall for it
gaal nothingmuch: the earilier one is better for me, if ok with you
nothingmuch gaal: yes 15:21
oh btw
gaal groovy.
nothingmuch i crashed my puter
and lost the bus number
gaal from hashalom, 63. from merkaz, 5, 18, 61, 62 15:22
agentzh finds making patches very difficult 15:23
gaal agentzh: technically? just vi away, then do 'svk diff'
or do you mean editing specs is hard?
of course it is :)
bbiab& 15:24
15:28 arguile joined 15:29 agentzh joined
agentzh www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk?bo...d97e345aa1 15:29
lambdabot Title: A. L. I. C. E. The Artificial Linguistic Internet Computer Entity - chatbot - ch ...
agentzh maybe we should bind this alicebot to our perl6faqbot in the future 15:30
that will be damn cool
there's even a perl version of alicebot which is free of charge. 15:31
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pasteling "agentzh" at 221.208.173.84 pasted "Modified version of the previous patch for S04. Thanks cjeris for pointing out my stupid mistakes. I was using "substitution" when searching texts in my editor." (176 lines, 7.9K) at sial.org/pbot/18634 15:55
agentzh i've double checked this one. hopefully there will be a powerful Synopses parser soon. :) 15:56
editing synopses is much much harder than writing code. :( 15:57
cjeris agentzh: 521 you lost the sentence merge, 23 s/is a matter of/are a matter of/
agentzh looking...
cjeris: is "are" okay there? 15:58
cjeris: "... are a..." seems odd
cjeris agentzh: right, "are matters of". 15:59
agentzh okay
applying...
applied 16:00
agentzh sees why small patches are usually preferred over large ones 16:01
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agentzh ?eval multi prefix:<foo> ($arg) { say "Foolish $arg!" } print foo 'agent' 16:11
16:11 evalbot_11793 is now known as evalbot_11794
evalbot_11794 OUTPUT[Foolish agent! 1] Bool::True 16:11
agentzh ?eval proto prefix:<foo> ($arg) { say "Foolish $arg!" } print foo 'agent' 16:12
evalbot_11794 Error: unexpected "{" expecting comment, operator, ":", ",", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
agentzh so this is a bug
[particle] that proto isn't recognized?
is that the bug you mean?
agentzh yeah
proto definitions don't even compile 16:13
audreyt said that's because there're no corresponding tests for that
[particle] strange 16:14
?eval proto postcircumfix:<foo> () {...}
evalbot_11794 Error: unexpected "{" expecting comment, operator, ":", ",", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
[particle] so it seems
agentzh i'd try to add some tests to the pugs tree
?eval proto abc() {...} 16:15
evalbot_11794 Error: unexpected "{" expecting comment, operator, ":", ",", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
gaal mooooooooooooooose. 16:17
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agentzh excuse me, how can i run a specific portion of the pugs test suit? 16:17
gaal agentzh: use 'prove': 16:18
export HARNESS_PERL=./pugs
export PERL6LIB=blib6/lib
prove t/some/section
agentzh gaal: oh, that's it! thanks for reminding
gaal sure thing. if you like you can also use the yaml harness on specific parts. 16:19
daxim I've installed the fedora rpms for hs-plugins, c2hs, cpphs, DrIFT and greencard on suse10
hopefully it doesn't crap out
gaal none of these things is required for pugs
though hs-plugins gives you a limited eval :lang<haskell> 16:20
16:20 chris2 joined
gaal and DrIFT lets you help us hack :) 16:20
daxim doesn't matter, if it doesn't work, I can remove the packages cleanly
gaal actually to use drift you don't need it installed 16:21
you need it as a sister directory to pugs.
daxim is that documented somewhere? 16:22
gaal daxim: it's for developers only, so not really 16:23
drift is only used to generate some files, but typical users simply get the ones drifters create for them. 16:24
daxim aha
16:24 Aankhen`` joined
gaal but if you're interested: untar the drift source and rename it to 'DrIFT' (no version number) 16:24
so standing in the pugs working dir, ../DrIFT/src is the good stuff. 16:25
then run util/claim-drift.pl
and then you can generate instances (Instance.hs files) yourself.
once again, only needed if you're into metaprogramming.
agentzh it seems to me that pugs' test suit is rather incomplete. :( 16:26
so it's a very good chance to contribute. ;-) 16:27
gaal agentzh: it'll need to double, at least
indeed :)
agentzh i'd like to try to double it in the next month or two. :=)
gaal :index intersperse 16:28
@index intersperse
lambdabot Data.List
16:37 marmic joined 16:39 miyagawa joined 16:43 swaroop joined 16:44 justatheory joined
svnbot6 r11795 | agentz++ | [t/subroutines/multi_sub.t] 16:47
r11795 | agentz++ | added tests for "proto" definitions
16:50 dduncan joined 16:52 justatheory joined 16:53 rodi joined 17:00 cognominal joined, justatheory joined
svnbot6 r11796 | agentz++ | [t/subroutines/multi_sub.t] 17:05
r11796 | agentz++ | more links to the Synopses
17:08 nothingmuch_ joined
nothingmuch_ gaal: problem 17:08
my dad and I had a communication breakdown
he offerred to drive me
but misunderstood the hour
and i've now missed my bus
so i have to take the 22:50 one
but i'll take a cab so i arrive earlier
17:10 nothingmuch joined
nothingmuch_ ? 17:11
17:11 Termy joined, nothingmuch joined
nothingmuch audreyt: ? 17:12
err 17:13
gaal: ?
gaal hullo
nothingmuch is that ok?
gaal cab from the station? let me find a number for you
sure it's okay :) sorry it didn't go smoother 17:14
nothingmuch should i just find one on the street
gaal that works too, but if you get tired of waiting why not have one handy: 03-6993322 or 03-5283131 17:15
probably you can get one on the street in no time though
nothingmuch gaal: because my phone really really sucks =)
anymoose
gaal see /msg 17:16
17:16 nelt joined 17:17 hexmode joined 17:18 stevan joined
gaal okay why is this a parse error? PosClass 17 [42] "Moose" 17:18
PosClass is in scope
svnbot6 r11797 | audreyt++ | * multi_sub.t: avoid duplicate function name "foo" 17:19
audreyt because it's typeclass used as constructor?
gaal nope, it's a constructor
misc/pX/gaal/SimpleMod.hs
audreyt it compiles for me 17:20
gaal with a stupid name, but still :)
I'm hacking it
audreyt moose = PosClass 17 [42] "Moose"
worksforme
gaal don't want to commit yet becuase it'll btb
audreyt did you give it a name?
gaal putStrLn $ asPerl6Object $ PosClass 17 [42] "Moose"
audreyt is asPerl6Object in scope? :) 17:21
gaal asPerl6Object :: a -> String
yes.
audreyt main :: IO ()
main = putStrLn $ asPerl6Object $ PosClass 17 [42] "Moose"
asPerl6Object :: a -> String
asPerl6Object = const "moose"
worksfomre
gaal I've changed it since.. sec, let me put up a patch.
17:22 justatheory joined
audreyt actually, I need to go back to slides :) 17:22
svnbot6 r11798 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser: parse for "proto". For now it just means "sub"
r11798 | audreyt++ | until we switch to CapInternals.
r11798 | audreyt++ | multi_sub.t now passes again. (agentzh++)
gaal don't you have a talk to give?
audreyt agentzh: your new tests now pass
gaal heh
agentzh gaal: (!)
apparently i need to roll more. :=) 17:23
gaal++ gaal++ gaal++
gaal why's everybody confusing me with audreyt today?
I'm not that smart :)
agentzh yes, you are 17:24
gaal agentzh: it's audreyt who consumed all your tests :)
agentzh really?
agentzh backlogs
gaal look: 20:22 < svnbot6> r11798 | audreyt++ | multi_sub.t now passes again. (agentzh++) 17:25
agentzh sorry, my mistake. ;-)
audreyt++
Dr_Pi If I want to test t/perl5/method.t by itself, do I just type pugs method.t? 17:27
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gaal multi &postfix:<++> (Gaal $moose) { $audreyt++ } # runs into the mutability of ++ problem 17:27
agentzh agentzh: use 'prove': 17:28
export HARNESS_PERL=./pugs
export PERL6LIB=blib6/lib
prove t/some/section
Dr_Pi: see above
gaal audreyt: if you get a minute, perlcabal.org/~gaal/tmp/weird.patch 17:29
agentzh Dr_Pi: but i think ``pugs t/some/test.t'' is also okay
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gaal but after drifting SimpleMod.Instances, you need to manually insert 'import Data.List' into it 17:29
...I didn't want to add that to drift.pl just yet 17:30
anyway, we're one likely-silly hurdle away from duming simple but arbitrary Hs data as P6 objects :-) 17:32
Dr_Pi: yes pugs t.t is okay, if a little verbose and w/o nice summary line at the end. 17:34
17:37 aufrank joined 17:41 mako132_ joined
agentzh true 17:41
17:41 bernhard joined
agentzh oh, no... 17:42
perl Makefile.PL segfaults at "Writing Makefile for WTemplate"
17:43 elmex joined
agentzh i think i saw the same problem days before 17:43
any idea?
gaal ahh! solved my weird problem 17:44
agentzh gaal: congrats
gaal heh. i forgot the function name - had only the signature 17:45
ghc gave a confusing error
aufrank is any of us #perl6 folk from chicago?
agentzh oh, my problem has also got solved.
gaal hmm, agentzh, I didn't see that segfault, how was it fixed? 17:46
agentzh it just took minutes to finish
weird
gaal: i got an error while making 17:47
pasteling "agentzh" at 221.208.173.84 pasted "Win32 building failure" (40 lines, 1.3K) at sial.org/pbot/18638 17:48
17:48 nothingmuch joined
gaal whee, dumping of positionals works 17:48
agentzh: hmm, that's new 17:49
agentzh i was using "nmake unoptimized"
i'm now trying normal "nmake"
to see if the problem will go away 17:50
nope, it's the same error. :(
gaal sorry for the lame suggestion, but make clean and start again? 17:51
agentzh i've already performed "nmake realclean"
17:51 justatheory joined
agentzh curses Win32 17:52
17:53 ruoso joined
agentzh even "realclean" has errors. alas. 17:53
gaal looks like something is closing your stdio, but I've no idea what it can be 17:54
pasteling "agentzh" at 221.208.173.84 pasted "Errors when performing "nmake realclean" on Win32" (9 lines, 436B) at sial.org/pbot/18639
17:55 larsen joined
gaal urp?? 17:55
agentzh it's really really annoying...
gaal you can always make a clean co... 17:56
agentzh is sad.
?eval proto prefix:<foo> ($arg) { $arg+1 } print foo 3 17:57
17:57 evalbot_11794 is now known as evalbot_11798
evalbot_11798 OUTPUT[4] Bool::True 17:57
agentzh yay! i can always use evalbot
although i cannot use it to run pugs' test suit 17:58
thanks audreyt++ for adding "proto" support to pugs
audreyt draft #2 up 17:59
50% finished!
(2hr to go)
# pugs.blogs.com/oscon-rhox-draft.pdf
agentzh audreyt: go ahead!
xerox New slides? 18:00
audreyt xerox: yeah 18:01
populated with code for the first half
xerox audreyt++
audreyt now working on second half
feedback welcome
xerox It's so unfortunate that the talks aren't put online afterwards...
audreyt you mean video?
xerox Yep!
agentzh looks at the Pugs Janitor Tasks posted by audreyt++ 18:02
well, anyway, end of day for me &
audreyt agentzh++ # good night
agentzh audreyt: night 18:03
gaal audreyt: good luck with the talk!
audreyt thanks! (I'll need it)
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lumi audreyt: slide 74, s/do/does/ 18:12
TimToady audreyt: 117 ~~ s/Hoes/How/ 18:13
wolverian heh 18:15
lumi audreyt: 79 s/Hoes/How/
In fact, s/Hoes/How/g might be appropriate..
audreyt did that
where is the "do"?
lumi "Which users do this change affect?" 18:16
audreyt k, changed to "Which users does this affect?"
gaal firefox is a lousy wget 18:17
wolverian audreyt, what's with the /=/, by the way?
audreyt I started this slides to show "useful utilities"
but it seems to become more and more Damianesque
"bend perl to evil purposes"
wolverian: /=/ is going to be Jifty's .meta URI space 18:18
all reflections go there
wolverian ah. nice
jifty is rails2 :)
audreyt mm rails6
by yeah, obra was heavily inspired by DHH
because last year's oscon DHH said "only ruby can create mini languages like this" 18:19
and obra was like, "sir, I accept the challenge"
...and the rest is jifty
wolverian so the reflection api is completely automatic? 18:20
lumi Are slide 99 and 100 identical?
Or better, last two phases of slide 41 18:21
audreyt might be, that's fine
extra newline
fixed, thanks
wolverian: yes.
wolverian: thanks to Class::MOP and friends
"Perl 6 Now" etc :) 18:22
wolverian yummy 18:23
hey! where's XML::All? :) 18:28
audreyt in the kwiki.org svn repo
not ready for prime time
not enough tests
will release after the talk
wolverian ah, ok
audreyt relatively mundane, too, compared to the XML::Literal magic 18:29
(it's in svn.kwiki.org/audreyt)
lambdabot Title: Revision 137: /
wolverian no moose? the world is ending! 18:30
audreyt hmm? 18:31
XML::All doesn't use moose
it's not an object
it's a inside-out katamari
wolverian that's a very apt name
audreyt++ # crazy hacking
audreyt another of those "overload everything" things (see also Scalar::Defer)
I blame TimToady, actually 18:32
it was Capture implemented in Perl5
gaal does order of overloading everything matter?
audreyt Capture was meant to be used like that
gaal: no
FurnaceBoy TT has a lot to answer for 18:35
gaal what is ......? 18:36
ugh, that didn't paste well did it
audreyt chinese in the slides are for flavour
gaal the han in user 1
audreyt "System Admin"
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gaal audreyt: the GET for actions as in slide 44 is demo data? 18:38
audreyt surely
the full schema is much, much, much larger. 18:39
anything wrong with the data?
obra hi
gaal no; just wondering where you store the schematic metadata
audreyt hi obra
gaal of the demo
hey obra
18:40 justatheory joined
audreyt only 7 slides to go 18:40
obra audreyt: nice
audreyt gaal: oh, it's all in RPS::Model
I just commented out some "column"
and then it became smaller
xdg audreyt: I like how you're doing near-real time blogging of your slide progress. :)
audreyt all the rows still work
xdg: :D
xdg: Class::InsideOut rocks
I use it for all my katamaris
xdg Thanks.
audreyt xdg: Scalar::Defer wouldn't be possible without it
xdg I figured it out when I got my CPANTS is_prereq point 18:41
gaal xdg, hi :)
audreyt xdg: I have a patch for Data::Dum::Streamer
remind me after my talk
xdg audreyt: for DDS? Or for C::IO to support DDS?
audreyt CIO on DDS
xdg Cool.
audreyt it's handcoded currently for Pugs::Runtime::Match
xdg It almost went into 1.00 but dmq still has some singleton issues
audreyt (which is also C::IO)
gaal ooh, cool zshlike paths on 46 18:42
audreyt oh! so you have some protocode already?
send it to me :)
xdg I've got half a patch in an svn branch somewhere I think
audreyt ok. please dig it out
and I'll see if I can merge
because YAML::syck will also support DDS_freeze
xdg checks repository...
audreyt (the 1st and 3rd arg)
I want my katamaris be YAMLable and JSONable :)
xdg dagolden.com/svn/public/CPAN/Class-...S-support/
lambdabot Title: Revision 664: /CPAN/Class-InsideOut/branches/DDS-support
audreyt danke 18:43
audreyt goes back to slides
xdg gaal: hi!
btw, I'm looking for win32 compiler experts to help Vanilla/Strawberry
audreyt: good luck!
18:44 hcarty joined
audreyt thanks! 18:45
18:45 Termy joined 18:47 b_jonas joined
spinclad my gv doesn't always like this pdf; i often have to hit 'stop interpreter' 18:47
wolverian evince works nicely here (libpoppler) 18:48
[particle] katamari?
18:48 thepler joined
[particle] was hoping for a factoid 18:48
wolverian [particle], en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katamari#Controls 18:49
the second paragraph on that page explains the katamari better, I guess
spinclad evince? 18:50
18:50 Eimi joined
wolverian spinclad, www.gnome.org/projects/evince/ 18:50
spinclad (libpoppler?)
lambdabot Title: Evince &#150; Simply a document viewer
gaal spinclad: fwiw my acroread doesn't love it either...
wolverian spinclad, libpoppler is the backend library, forked from xpdf 18:51
xdg audreyt: should I forward email trail between me and dmq on DDS?
audreyt sure
wolverian haskell papers need syntax colouring
spinclad 141: reminds me a bit of a neolithic madonna 18:53
wait, how did TimToady2 get into this? 18:57
wolverian how many timtoadies do we have?
spinclad (slide 169) 18:58
wolverian oh ;)
spinclad 177 == 178 (but fillin not reached here yet, i guess) 18:59
shiny! 19:03
19:06 vel joined
audreyt 4 slides to go... 19:08
obra audreyt++ 19:09
19:10 dolmen joined
gaal wtf? instance (PLit a) => PLit (Eval a) where plShow (Eval x) = plShow x 19:11
Expecting a function type, but found `[Char]'
Expected type: a -> b, Inferred type: String 19:12
In the second argument of `(.)', namely `plShow x'
(.) ?
I have the (bogus) data Eval a = Eval a
[particle] plShow (x) ??
audreyt what's signature of plShow?
gaal could it be confusing constructir?
class PLit where plShow :: a -> String 19:13
class Show a => PLit a, more precisely. 19:14
[particle]: nah!
[particle] gaal: i know less haskell than i do apl 19:18
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gaal [particle]: the one thing you should know is that they like functions as much as they like golf. no parens for function application! :-) 19:20
[particle] waits for a haskell grammar written in perl6 rules 19:21
gaal okay, the crazy hypothesis that ghc was mixing up datatype with constructor is falsified; changing to data Eval a = UEval a the problem persists.
[particle]: much, much easier than a perl6 grammar in Parsec
[particle] dreams about compiling haskell down to javascript
19:22 tup joined
[particle] *ahem* 19:22
gaal contemplates writing Paddock, a haskell documentor that isn't broken for all those ghc extensions
wolverian heh
gaal so this is seriously weird, but I think audrey will give a talk and nothingmuch and I will meet and have sushi before this is fixed. 19:23
19:24 bobuntu joined 19:25 dduncan joined
spinclad wolverian++ # evince 19:25
wolverian :)
spinclad tho i still get a few black bars for some of the graphix 19:26
but so much nicer to actually see most of it
wolverian hm, graphics are fine here 19:28
gaal nothingmuch sends all of you his love.
bbl & 19:29
spinclad slides 7 and 8 (Erdo''sing 2 and 3) here
all the rest are fine 19:32
obra audreyt: when are you headed to the conf center? 19:33
wolverian checks
work here
(big pictures of $! and $Job, respectively)(
s,\(,,
aufrank audreyt: are -- comments parsed in the jifty schemas, or are those presentation-only comments? 19:37
wolverian I _knew_ there was something weird there. didn't realise it's s,#,--, :) 19:38
aufrank yeah, it's haskell comment syntax
well, one of the haskell comment syntaxes anyway
audreyt actually those are SQL 19:40
comments
obra: going there in 20 mins
wolverian sql has comments? ... wow. 19:41
audreyt and it's done!
pugs.blogs.com/talks/oscon-rhox.pdf
aufrank audreyt++
wolverian congrats :)
audreyt feedback still welcome
I can fix my atalk during obra's jifty talk :)
(same room, immediately before me)
aufrank yeah, he just ditched me in #jifty to go give a talk. the nerve of some people ;)
19:46 coumbes joined 19:47 aufrank joined
dduncan hello audreyt 19:47
19:49 hcarty left
spinclad odd that a number of the graphix (the magic cards and the IBM logo) extend downward, mirrored 19:49
not a bad effect 19:50
dduncan to you and anyone else intetested ...
'm writing this to let you know that I've organized a discussion about the semantic web and related topics in the OSCAMP room (E146) today that starts about when your Web 2.0 talk ends and goes until at least 5:00.
look forward to meeting 19:51
er, people at oscon that is
oh, I'm looking at your pdf now ... 19:55
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TreyHarris probably a stupid question, but what is "erdosing"? (sorry, still haven't figured out how to type accented characters in irssi) 19:58
dduncan also, please check and/or reply by email if I"m signed off ... back in a bit 19:59
wolverian TreyHarris, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdos#Biography (third paragraph)
TreyHarris wolverian: thanks. of course i've heard of Erdos, but I didn't know he had been verbed :-) 20:01
I also wasn't aware of his itinerantism
spinclad on 186, surely C<<$item->name>> and C<<$item->description>>, not C<$collection> ? 20:06
audreyt: ^
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aufrank audreyt: slide 130: print $$xml #a 20:07
why is that #a?
I would have guessed #23
whoops # 123 20:08
I guess it prints the type of element ($xml is an anchor)
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spinclad audreyt++ 20:15
aufrank audreyt++ # just finished reading the slides :) 20:17
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audreyt spinclad: fixed, thanks 20:32
and yes, ${} is the tagname
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xerox audreyt: ping 20:39
audreyt: I spotted a `moose' in hackage.haskell.org/darcs/cabal-ser...e-index.hs so I believe you have something to do with it :-) Is it the put software? Do you know how to build it? 20:40
audreyt xerox: yes, but my talk is coming up in <1hr 20:45
please let's deal with this affterwards
xerox Oh sure! 20:46
gaal moooooose 20:47
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kolibrie yay! I'm invited to speak at Pittsburgh Perl Workshop - pghpw.org 20:48
lambdabot Title: Pittsburgh Perl Workshop - 2006-09-23 - About
gaal whee
gaal antlers 20:49
kolibrie now I have to make sure I know what I'm talking about
gaal a moose in cabal? couldn't be 20:50
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kolibrie gaal: }:) 20:50
wolverian ]:) # trimmed moose 20:51
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spinclad (:E 21:00
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dduncan audreyt, fyi, reinstalling svk made the pull work, so thank you for figuing that out 21:07
audreyt dduncan: cool! 21:08
dduncan++ # it's wonderful to finally meet you in person
dduncan indeed
in the interest of continuing that, I invite you to the oscamp room after your talk
audreyt yup 21:09
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kolibrie audreyt: wow # XML::All in-place modification 21:22
audreyt kolibrie: it's actually the easiest part 21:24
it's just XML::Twig
XML::Twig is very much underappreciated :)
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fglock_ v6.pm is using too much ram again - Native.pm no longer compiles :( 21:28
kolibrie audreyt: I'll have to look at it more closely
fglock_ circular references might be a problem with things like { return $/ does xxx } 21:31
svnbot6 r11799 | Sage++ | Heredocs now translate (<<End -> q:to/End/ and friends).
r11799 | Sage++ | All functions that need to can now handle Heredocs.
r11799 | Sage++ | Some minor cleanups and revisions, mostly comments, formatting, and cleaning up the code that actually calls the parser.
21:33 dduncan left 21:34 justatheory joined
svnbot6 r11800 | Sage++ | Major updates to the parser used by the translator: 21:38
r11800 | Sage++ | Heredocs now parse correctly. This includes the start, end, and contents.
r11800 | Sage++ | Blocks with the chomp modifier (|+) now parse correctly, even inside Heredocs.
r11800 | Sage++ | Between these two changes, I believe the parser can handle anything in a valid P5AST. This means the Perl 5 -> Perl 6 translator should now at least partially translate any yaml output from MAD_SKILLS. I believe the translator will now handle all of /t, but I have yet to run a full test.
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wolverian whoa! sage++ 21:38
SageLT Been working jard. ;)
*hard
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TimToady sage += rand(100) :) 21:43
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gaal can datatypes limit members by class? data Show a => DT a = V1 a 21:51
fglock_ I guess I'll rewrite the rule compiler to p6 instead of refactoring the current one 21:52
gaal I'm trying to find a way to give a class constraint on polymorphic type begotten elsewhere. that isn't very clear, so: 21:53
class MyShow a where myShow :: a -> String 21:54
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gaal and also, a DrIFTed class NewClass with showElems :: NewClass a => a -> String 21:55
showElems can do for example Maybe a, as long as NewClass a, because there's an instance for Maybe 21:56
the problem is this:
I can't really drift showElems, because the various constructors it faces have fields that I have no way of associating with class MyShow 21:57
so if I had showElems (Maybe a) = "Maybe.new(" ++ (myShow a) ++ ")"
the compiler croaks with "cannot deduce MyShow a from constraint (NewClass a), (NewClass (Maybe a)) 21:58
and it's right...
but I don't see a workaround at present.
now, I need myShow, because it polymorphically does things correctly on different types 21:59
I wish there were a way to say "all types have are instances of this new class; here's the default method implementations." 22:00
gaal falls asleep thingking of polymorphic lambdas
better get myself to bed 22:01
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nothingmuch /w 9 22:12
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clkao seen sage 22:48
jabbot clkao: I havn't seen sage, clkao
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clkao whta's this proto thing about 23:06
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[particle] clkao: you mean proto prefix:<foo> () { ... } 23:25
svnbot6 r11801 | clkao++ | Parse signature term type correctly.
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