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pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, smop: etc.) || We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ Set by TimToady on 25 January 2008. |
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| mncharity | had a < 2 sec startup. eh. are there other potential payoffs from mx::c? | 00:01 | |
| hmm, I said eh, but once we start regularly running the test suite, that 2 sec may start to be a bottleneck, given STD_red parse caching. | 00:03 | ||
| bbl & | 00:04 | ||
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| pugs_svnbot | r20222 | lwall++ | [STD] was missing private method call using ! | 00:43 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20222 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20222 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| meppl | good night | 01:44 | |
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| mncharity | g'night meppl :) | 01:55 | |
| pugs_svnbot | r20223 | putter++ | [elf_c] Forked a stable copy of STD_red (r20220). elf_c is now slushy. | ||
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20223 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20223 - Pugs - Trac | ||
| Auzon | What do you mean by slushy? | ||
| mncharity | slushy is in between active and frozen. /me looks for good definition... | 01:56 | |
| Auzon | so maintained? | 01:57 | |
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| mncharity | bbiam | 01:58 | |
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| mncharity | back, | 02:01 | |
| re maintained, yes. depends what you mean. with it's own copy of STD_red, it's only external dependencies are on perl and ruby. biggest risk there is ruby 1.9 over future releases. so relatively bitrot resistant. however, | 02:03 | ||
| s/ruby 1.9/ruby 1.9 drift/ | 02:04 | ||
| as it freezes, it is increasingly considered feature complete. bug complete too. the later both to focus development on HEAD, and so that people can depend on behavior not changing. | 02:05 | ||
| old elfs can be thought of as old svn revs, but more convenient because you can keep running them, and they've been tweaked to avoid rotting. | 02:06 | ||
| answered? | 02:07 | ||
| Auzon | Very well, thanks :) | ||
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| Auzon | Have you done any benchmarking to see how much slower things get when adding another elf? If I remember correctly, that was a large problem with KP6. | 02:08 | |
| mncharity | not really. mainly just watching the self-compile time. | 02:10 | |
| Auzon | aren't you compiling each new version with the immediately previous version? | 02:11 | |
| mncharity | elf_b, the first bootstrapped elf, was significantly slower than elf_a. 10 sec vs 2? sec. and slower to start (2 sec vs noise). since then its been stable. | ||
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| mncharity | re compiling, no. generally, things start off with a version being compilable by itself and its predecessor. but elf_c for | 02:12 | |
| instance became solely self-compiling. it could no longer be compiled by elf_b. | |||
| basically the tradeoff is between the additional hassle of being only self-compiling, vs the hassle of updating the predecessor sufficiently to keep compiling the new version. | 02:13 | ||
| Auzon | oh, I see. So elf_c rolled in more changes than I expected | 02:14 | |
| I just expected you to implement elf_{n} in elf_{n-1}, and anything past that point would go to elf_{n+1} | 02:15 | ||
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| Auzon | I must be going. It was nice to talk :) | 02:17 | |
| mncharity | one could, and end up with a chain. but it's not clear that buys you very much. if the environment breaks something, or a latent bug gets introduced but not noticed, you're not much better off if you have a chain than when you have a series of "releases". atleast while | ||
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| mncharity | the executable form is still so easily directly edited. | 02:17 | |
| Auzon | Makes sense :) | ||
| SamB | what is this -- the demoscene? | ||
| mncharity | re talk, indeed :) | ||
| SamB | editing executables directly! | ||
| mncharity | its just p5, and "looks almost like hand written" as well. | 02:18 | |
| SamB | oh | ||
| sorry, you kept using the word "elf" | |||
| that confused me ;-) | |||
| Auzon | elf is the name of the interpreter/compiler/thing | 02:19 | |
| mncharity | ooohhhhh. drat. didn't think of that. bzzzt. unfortunate name collission | ||
| SamB | hahahaha | ||
| Auzon | At least you didn't pick gnome :P | ||
| mncharity | think green hat, pointy ears, working with Santa | ||
| lol | |||
| SamB | gnome would have been less confusing though | ||
| mncharity | LOL :) # re gnome | ||
| SamB | since GNOME has little to do with compilers | ||
| mncharity | ah well. elf is all about making itself obsolete by allowing people to write _real_ p6 compilers. | 02:20 | |
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| mncharity | name just has to survive some months. | 02:21 | |
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| mncharity | anyone know state-of-the-art on p5 multiple dispatch? a quick microbench sugggests a simple method-call plus dispatch to sub in hash indexed by ref of first (well, second) argument wouldn't be significantly more expensive than a double method call. | 02:23 | |
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| mncharity | (the double method call being what you pay in a single dispatch workaround "visitor" kludge) | 02:27 | |
| hi stevan_ :) | |||
| stevan_ | heya mncharity | 02:28 | |
| mncharity | and since we have control over the compiler, we can punt the arity check. go directy to method_foo_called_with_one_extra_dispatching_argument | ||
| stevan_: Moose have anything multiple-dispatchy I can use? :) | 02:29 | ||
| getting rather tired of fighting single dispatch, and watching it distort and complicate things. | 02:30 | ||
| as long as the cost is only ~3x or 4x that of a method call | 02:31 | ||
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| mncharity | oh, objective is multimethods rather than multisubs. | 02:31 | |
| stevan_ | nope, Moose doesnt even ry to go there | 02:32 | |
| even LISP cant do it fast :P | |||
| mncharity | so have time for the original method call, the final sub call, a couple of refs and other ops. maybe squeze in another sub call. | ||
| lol | |||
| stevan_ | there is Data::Bind | ||
| mncharity | different definition of fast though :P | 02:33 | |
| hmm, Data::Bind... | |||
| Since having control of the compiler let's one play games one can't with a pure p5 module... hmm, maybe scavange Moose reflection stuff, so can easily say collect the set of named-for-easy-spotting multimethod subs from the inheritance tree, with the type constraints encoded in name perhaps, and then assemble the actual dispatchers from those. | 02:36 | ||
| re Data::Bind, interesting, but no. let's see.. | 02:40 | ||
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| mncharity | re LISP fast, but one of several advantages of perl of CL is never hearing "yes X would be nicely expressive and save you work, but we don't know how to compile it efficiently so you can't have it". :) | 02:42 | |
| s/of/over/ | |||
| sort of like haskell in that respect | |||
| re Moose and MMD, just having double dispatch, invocant and the first argument after that, would allow people to get away from single-dispatch visitor workarounds. hmm, as long as the inheritance tree is flatish. | 02:45 | ||
| though dameon(sp?) had a "use a regex to do type recognition" hack for some mmd module. wonder what that costs... | 02:46 | ||
| stevan_ | mncharity: nothingmuch is working on something to do basic type based dispatching | ||
| mncharity | ah, released? | ||
| stevan_ | so loc(DateTime $x) will dispatch to loc_datetime($x) | ||
| mncharity | oh, hmm. | 02:47 | |
| stevan_ | no, he is currently fighting the eurorail customer service nightmare I think | ||
| mncharity | eep | ||
| stevan_ | next week I think | ||
| cause we need it for $work stuff | |||
| it will be intentionally simplistic though | |||
| mncharity | I'm thinking more multi method m(Int $i){3} aka multi method m ($self : $i ;;) {3} which could be compiled to sub m { my $self=shift; if(ref($_[0]) eq 'Int'){3} else {die} }. well, "could be", wouldn't want to. | 02:49 | |
| multi method m (Int $n;; $none, $of, $this, $affects, $dispatch) { $hash_from_somewhere{ref($_[1]}->(@_) } | 02:50 | ||
| multi method m (Int $n;; $none, $of, $this, $affects, $dispatch) { goto $hash_from_somewhere{ref($_[1]}; } | 02:51 | ||
| err, ok, that was a bizarre mix of p6 and p5 | |||
| multi method m (Int $n;; $none, $of, $this, $affects, $dispatch) {...} compiled to sub m { goto $hash_from_somewhere{ref($_[1]}; } | |||
| class X { multi method m (Int $n;; $whatever) { 3 } multi method m (Num $n){4} }; X.new.m(3); -> {package X; sub m { goto $my_hash{ref($_[1]}; }} | 02:53 | ||
| minor matter of collecting the info, and code generating(?) that sub. | 02:54 | ||
| :/ | 02:55 | ||
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| mncharity | but performance should be < 2 method calls. | 02:55 | |
| or ~= 2 method calls anyway. | |||
| stevan_: any nice Moose infrastructure to ask "gimme a list of all the method names available for class X, directly or through inheritance"? | 03:00 | ||
| stevan_ | Class->meta->compute_all_applicable_methods | 03:01 | |
| returns an array of hashes with CODE ref, class name (i think) and method name | |||
| Class::MOP::Class has the docs | |||
| mncharity | woot :) | ||
| many thanks | 03:02 | ||
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| mncharity | search.cpan.org/~stevan/Class-MOP-0...P/Class.pm | 03:10 | |
| lambdabot | Title: Class::MOP::Class - Class Meta Object - search.cpan.org, tinyurl.com/587e4q | 03:11 | |
| pugs_svnbot | r20224 | putter++ | [STD_red] "multi method ..." now parses. And <paramater>'s Match now includes quantchar. | ||
| r20224 | putter++ | [elf_d] That info is available in the IR. | |||
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20224 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20224 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| mncharity | thanks for the help stevan_. | 04:47 | |
| good night all & | |||
| pugs_svnbot | r20225 | putter++ | [elf_d] A crude start at multi methods. Dispatches on two parameters: the invocant, and the bare non-inherited typename of the first other parameter. | ||
| r20225 | putter++ | 'class A {multi method f(SCALAR $x){say "hi"~$x}; multi method f(ARRAY $a){say "ay"};}; my $a = A.new; $a.f(3); $a.f([]);' works. Likely little else. | |||
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20225 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20225 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| spinclad | mncharity: re 'bare non-inherited typename of the first other parameter': that sounds good, especially if you treat the hash as a cache as you meet new types and ask them various 'does' questions | 05:37 | |
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| pugs_svnbot | r20226 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] var/type.t moved to S02 spec test. Hackaton! | 11:01 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20226 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20226 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| pugs_svnbot | r20227 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Fudgified var type test | 12:34 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20227 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20227 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| pugs_svnbot | r20228 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Moved var/autoref.t to spec S02/ | 12:39 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20228 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20228 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| pugs_svnbot | r20229 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Fixed pod markup | 12:45 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20229 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20229 - Pugs - Trac | ||
| pugs_svnbot | r20230 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] autovivification test script moved to spec/S09 | 12:47 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20230 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20230 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| pugs_svnbot | r20231 | cosimo++ | Now 'my Type $foo' is actually implemented | 13:07 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20231 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20231 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| pugs_svnbot | r20232 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Added correct fudge directives according to current rakudo implementation status | 13:25 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20232 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20232 - Pugs - Trac | ||
| pugs_svnbot | r20233 | cosimo++ | [t] Fudgified test | 13:32 | |
| r20234 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Refactored control_flow/try.t tests under S04 | |||
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20234 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20234 - Pugs - Trac | ||
| pugs_svnbot | r20235 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Fudgified try.t spec test | 13:35 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20235 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20235 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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| pugs_svnbot | r20236 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Refactored some literal/unicode tests under S02/S29 | 15:02 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20236 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20236 - Pugs - Trac | ||
| pugs_svnbot | r20237 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Moved string tests under S29-str | 15:14 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20237 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20237 - Pugs - Trac | ||
| pugs_svnbot | r20238 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Infinity tests moved to S02-builtin-types | 15:20 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20238 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20238 - Pugs - Trac | ||
| pugs_svnbot | r20239 | cosimo++ | [t/spec] Moved not/true tests under operators. Not sure about this. Should it be 'S03-precedence' ? | 15:23 | |
| diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20239 | |||
| lambdabot | Title: Changeset 20239 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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