pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, smop: etc.) || We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by TimToady on 25 January 2008.
mncharity re STD.pm, are :: and ::: getting parsed? I'm not immediately seeing it. 00:04
TimToady haven't had much chance to work on it, what with $dayjob being ferocious at the moment... 00:05
mncharity ah :/ 00:06
TimToady I don't think it does parse :: and ::: at the moment, sb a regex_metachar, but it's not there 00:09
mncharity ok, thanks
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pugs_svnbot r20293 | putter++ | elf_e_src/EmitRegexYare.pm: Sketching what needs to be done. 01:17
r20293 | putter++ | Backtracking api changes from a Filter::Simple to a s/// method.
r20293 | putter++ | Engine core becomes a prelude.
r20293 | putter++ | Emitters become p6, emitting p5 source.
r20293 | putter++ | IR analysis becomes p6.
r20293 | putter++ | The regexp and regex parsers are temporarily retained, as some of the action logic will need to end up in IRx1_FromAST or elsewhere.
r20293 | putter++ | And the unicode rules will need to be metaprogrammed in p6.
r20293 | putter++ | Discarded:
r20293 | putter++ | Match - no need for painful 'use overload' games.
r20293 | putter++ | Functional regex representations - we're bootstrapping on STD.
r20293 | putter++ | Api and Filter packages - emitter has understanding and control of the code.
r20293 | putter++ | Interactive shell and command line - though may again need something like it for testing.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20293 01:20
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lambdabot Title: Changeset 20293 - Pugs - Trac 01:20
Auzon ... wow.
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mncharity yeah. some commit messages are just not meant for irc. ;) 01:22
good night all & 01:23
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TimToady ooh, we'll have to allow small comments with ā‹• and even tinier ones with āŒ— 02:45
rindolf TimToady: heh. 02:46
TimToady: hi.
Hi all.
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rindolf I'm going crazy without my home email. 02:47
I hope I won't get unsubscribed from a lot of mailing lists.
TimToady I think I might go sane without my home email... 02:48
rindolf TimToady: heh. 02:51
"Can't live with it. Can't live without it."
TimToady: what's up? 02:57
TimToady: BTW, can you tell me how do you make your living now?
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TimToady I'm working for a company called Netlogic Microsystems 03:03
rindolf TimToady: ah.
TimToady they do pattern matching in hardware, among other things
rindolf TimToady: hmm... interesting.
TimToady and somehow they thought I knew something about pattern matching...
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rindolf TimToady: imagine that! 03:04
Auzon So... like regexes in hardware? 03:05
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rindolf TimToady: many modern Greek speakers can speak ancient Greek, right? 03:05
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TimToady they can read it, at least... 03:05
rindolf Someone I talked with once wanted to have a C compiler in hardware. 03:06
He used Gentoo.
Auzon Makes sense now.
TimToady Auzon: yeah, like that
rindolf TimToady: how much memory can they afford to use? 03:07
TimToady they try to avoid using memory, which is slow...
rindolf Because compiling a regex into a state machine can take a lot of memory.
TimToady: ah.
TimToady: not computer memory - on-chip memory. 03:08
TimToady yeah, well, now you're getting into NDA territory :)
rindolf TimToady: oh sorry.
TimToady: NDA or NFA?
TimToady snickers 03:09
rindolf J/K.
Non-finite Automata.
TimToady flipflopping on the question, are you?
rindolf TimToady: heh.
TimToady: J/K flip-flop, right. 03:10
TimToady: can't remember any others.
RS Flip-flop.
I think.
TimToady Radio Shack?
rindolf TimToady: :-)
TimToady: I studied EE for 6 years. Well, one year was composed of two vacation semesters.
TimToady: I only have a B.Sc. in EE.
But it would be a stretch to call me an EEer. 03:11
TimToady well, my family is calling me, so I'd better go...
not sure I want to know what they're calling me... 03:12
Auzon See you.
TimToady bbl &
rindolf TimToady: bye.
We still need to compose the words for "I'm the real TimToady". 03:17
To be sang by the Randal Schwartz Condition. 03:18
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PerlJam blah, too late for TimToady 03:48
rindolf PerlJam: hi.
PerlJam hello rindolf 03:49
rindolf PerlJam: are you on San-fran.pm?
PerlJam nope.
rindolf PerlJam: oh, so you missed the funny thread.
Too bad.
PerlJam do you happen to know how to use the msg bot? It's one of those things I've done maybe once, so it didn't stick in my long term memory.
rindolf PerlJam: /msg MemoServ HELP
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rindolf PerlJam: or do you mean lambdabot? 03:50
lambdabot: help
Auzon I think lambdabot is just @tell whoever whatever
PerlJam whichever
rindolf PerlJam: I can grep my logs.
PerlJam heh, I've stopped keeping logs of IRC. I rarely ever went back and searched them for anything. 03:51
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PerlJam @tell TimToady I think the definition of statement or stdstopper is wrong in STD.pm. stdstopper includes statement_mod_loop and statement_mod_cond. Coupled with the definition of statement, that lets us have 2 statement_mod_cond in a row and I thought that's now allowed. 03:52
lambdabot Consider it noted.
PerlJam Grr. s/(.*)now/${1}not/ 03:53
trying to implement more of STD.pm for rakudo is ... trying :) 03:54
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syle I notice memory is never freed on a variable when you use concatenation on it in perl5, is that normal? 06:33
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spinclad syle: this is a perl6 channel. for perl5 help, try #perl here on freenode, or #perl-help on irc.perl.org or #perlhelp on EFnet (or so purl tells me). 07:11
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moritz_ ... and a log crumbles through the gate 12:26
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moritz_ any kp6 developer around? 15:19
I noticed a possible problem with gather { ... take }
take() just calls Coro::cede 15:20
which has no control over which coro is being executed
so if you have more than one coro, you end up triggering the wrong one
one possible solution could be Coro::Channel
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awwaiid if you know exactly which coro you want to run isntead, you could do transfer() 15:30
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moritz_ awwaiid: aye, but then you have the problem that take() has to redispatch to the previous Coro::State object 15:31
awwaiid: I tried that with Perl6::GatherTake (now on CPAN), but I didn't succeed
awwaiid ah 15:32
moritz_ but it could be that kp6's abstraction layer helps here, and makes ->transfer() possible
for the p5 implementation I used a tied, quasi-lazy array 15:33
which is kinda ugly
awwaiid I'm completely unfamiliar with the kp6's architecture, I was just making a completely uneducated suggestion :)
moritz_ it was certainly educated ;-) 15:35
I'n not familiar enough to fix it, I just noticed that kp6 might have a problem
awwaiid moritz_, see thelackthereof.org/projects/perl/Co...nuation.pm (though a glance at it suggests that the scope of @yieldstack needs to be more limited) 15:41
lambdabot tinyurl.com/6a8dbg
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awwaiid maybe you can use that to effectively transfer only back to the caller 15:42
Coro used to have Coro::Cont that did this better
moritz_ awwaiid: I think I'd need a hash that maps the coro reference to the array I'm filling 15:43
awwaiid: but something like this might work, thanks for the hint
awwaiid np 15:45
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pmurias moritz_: hi 15:51
moritz_ hi pmurias 15:52
pmurias i think kp6 is frozen/dead right now so i don't suppose the bug will be fixed 15:53
moritz_ what is it blocking on? smop?
$no_free_time?
avar fglock disappeared and development pretty much dried up after that 15:56
moritz_ too bad
pmurias and the default backend proved too slow to be usefull 15:57
on the positive side nested gather works ;) 16:01
moritz_ that surprises me a bit
but it's great ;-) 16:03
pasteling "pmurias" at 81.168.228.98 pasted "nested gather test case" (14 lines, 269B) at sial.org/pbot/30835 16:04
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pmurias moritz_: i'm afraid i was over enthusiastic :( 16:08
the inner gather is called more times then it should
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awwaiid moritz_, I looked at that code I sent you and now re-understand why using a global yieldstack is ok. the yieldstack holds the caller, so the only reason it is a stack at all is for nested continuations 16:21
(s/continuations/generators/ if you like) 16:22
moritz_ awwaiid: ok, so as long as I don't do *really* evil things like threads it should all be fine
but I think that Coro and threads conflict anyway
awwaiid Coro, afaik, is thread safe as long as it is wholly contained in a single thread
moritz_ which is not my definition of "thread safety" ;-) 16:23
awwaiid I think you can use my code directly, and add your hash cache as wrapping code
er, array 16:24
moritz_ thanks 16:25
awwaiid Actually I should just bundle this properly as Coro::Generator
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awwaiid adds it to the TODO list 16:27
pugs_svnbot r20294 | moritz++ | [irclog] filter [off] comments (the logging bot should have don it, but 16:35
r20294 | moritz++ | it seems not to work reliably)
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20294
lambdabot Title: Changeset 20294 - Pugs - Trac
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lichtkind TimToady: is it right that basically in perl 6 are only 4 namespaces: $%@ and that for (sub)routines ? 19:08
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moritz_ there's the :: sigil for namespaces, isn't 19:10
TimToady arguably there's only packages and lexical scopes, and the sigils are just part of the name 19:12
lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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moritz_ TimToady: is there a 'real' @@ sigil? 19:16
TimToady depends on what you mean by 'real'
moritz_ TimToady: STD.pm considers it to be a sigil, but it's not listed in the synopsis as a sigil, iirc
TimToady: having @@a being a different variable from @a 19:17
TimToady it parses as a separate sigil, but @@foo and @foo are the same array as it is currently specced
moritz_ ok
TimToady all it really controls is the list vs slice context if you bind to it
PerlJam moritz: dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S..._Variables 19:18
lambdabot Title: Synopsis 2: Bits and Pieces - perl6, tinyurl.com/y648lg
PerlJam The :: sigil seems to have an aweful lot of conceptual weight put upon it as I look at that list. 19:19
moritz_ PerlJam: slice view of @, that's what I missed
PerlJam though maybe that's just because I don't quite think of all of those items as specializations of the same thing yet. 19:20
package/module/class/grammar all go together in my head, but the others don't quite 19:21
lichtkind TimToady: le me put it this way: filehandle, format name, and dirhandle namespaces are gone and captures and pairs and junctions are "simple" skalars?
TimToady PerlJam: the statement token prevents you from having two conditional modifiers in a row; the stdstoppers are a superset of what the parser will accept at that point (though there are other issues with transient terminators that need fixing) 19:22
lichtkind: that's a fair statement of the situation 19:23
lichtkind TimToady: thanks 19:24
PerlJam TimToady: I'll have to look at it again, but it seemed like a statement could be parsed as <expr> <statement_mod_cond> <stdstopper> and stdstopper could be parsed as <statement_mod_cond> thus you'd get two in a row.
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PerlJam anyway, it was late for me when I looked. Maybe my eyes were blurry and my brain fuzzy :) 19:25
TimToady PerlJam: I'd say :: is really type space, and some types happen to map to what we used to think of as packages
stdstopper is only doing lookahead
PerlJam ah, I completely missed that then. 19:26
I may implement that in rakudo next if I can figure out how. :)
TimToady note that all calls to stdstopper are of the form <?stdstopper> or <!stdstopper>
lichtkind TimToady: what do you know about kurila 19:27
TimToady neither of those consume chars
allbery_b sees and understands (cf. mailing list yesterday)
TimToady as I've mentioned, stoppers need some reworking in order to be properly dynamic 19:28
PerlJam TimToady: aye. Maybe I won't attempt it just yet. I only have a limited amount of time to hack these evenings and meager brain power. 19:30
TimToady lichtkind: I ignore kurila, for the most part. I'm not very interested in half-baked fixes to Perl. 19:31
lichtkind TimToady: that was a straight statement of the situation :) 19:32
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Coke_ TimToady: ... that's quite a straight line there... =-) 19:33
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pugs_svnbot r20295 | moritz++ | [t/spec] s/use v6-alpha;/use v6;/ 21:11
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20295
lambdabot Title: Changeset 20295 - Pugs - Trac
Coke_ ... I mean in parrot. 21:12
moritz_ Coke_: but in p6 it's not necessary either, is it? 21:13
Module.pod say "Before the full specification of PerlĀ 6.0.0 is released, you can use C<alpha> 21:14
to denote a program using syntax that is still subject
to change"
but since the tests should always reflect the current status of the language I see no need for it 21:15
if anybody objects I can reverse that commit
Coke_ I just didn't want to suddenly have all of pugs tests failing, is all. 21:18
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moritz_ since pugs doesn't run in current versions of the repo that's no a good point 21:19
and compatibilty to the implementations should be achieved with fudge
but I can understand your concern
Coke_ Just trying to be a good neighbor. 21:20
moritz_ aye
we do appreciate that ;)
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meppl good night 22:40
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