pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, smop: etc.) || We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by TimToady on 25 January 2008.
TimToady part of the bug backlog is because I've been out of town, and part because I've been refactoring the quoting parser to use parametric roles, so I didn't want to check in something completely inoperative 00:00
I'm sure I wouldn't mind small fixes by other people as long as they merge well with my code :)
mncharity :) so backlog is a transient, rather than a focus shift? 00:01
TimToady but I do expect the code to stabilize somewhat once I get the quoting sorted out
and I do expect to have more time in the next few weeks
mncharity ok. quoting will be nifty.
It's the grep NONSPEC std.rb | wc #=> 62 which is getting painful. 00:03
TimToady basically, the LTM works fine for derived grammars, but there were various spots in STD that should have used derived grammars that didn't
quoting, regex, etc
and certainly some of your NONSPEC is due to lack of LTM, isn't it? 00:04
STD will not only be making LTM possible, but relying on it 00:05
as it already does, which is why there's no longer <nofat>, for example
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mncharity re 'ļ»ædue to lack of LTM?', my impression is mostly not. more that random language feature x isn't parsed by the existing rules. 00:06
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TimToady how easy would it be to generate a list of those? 00:07
mncharity looks...
TimToady (I realize many of them have floated past here already... :)
Eevee how exactly does {*} work 00:09
mncharity colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...xt=checked
lambdabot Title: #perl6 irc log search, tinyurl.com/63x8or
TimToady as far as the parser is concerned, it's just a closure that executes *
00:10 armagad_ left
TimToady which does nothing 00:10
however, the idea is that it's an easily recognizable nothing that you can attach various reduction hooks to via preprocessing
00:11 braceta left
Eevee oh dear 00:11
TimToady so any given compiler is allowed to substitute other reduction actions at that point
presumably keyed by the comment out to the right
as an official side effect, it's also equivalent to :: in terminating the longest token 00:12
though it doesn't affect backtracking as :: does
mncharity The "TimToady: (" irc comments were this month's series. There's more in the NONSPEC lines of std.rb, and they tend to explain themselves, though some have already been incorporated in STD.pm. 00:13
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TimToady biab & # decommuting from $dayjob 00:17
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Eevee skims through S05 00:18
pugs_svnbot r20598 | putter++ | [STD_red] Unbreak statement modifiers. Eg, 'say 3 if 0'. 00:24
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mncharity TimToady: (n+1) The current STD.pm's quote:rx using quotenibble doesn't seem to permit adverbial modifiers, eg, 's:P5///'. 00:41
TimToady that's part of the refactor 00:43
Juerd What's a quotenibble? 00:44
TimToady look for user-defined quotes, then nibble the insides 00:45
but in my copy it has worn down to "quibble" :)
and the modifiers like :P5 are handled by derivation: <quibble(Perl::Q.tweak(:qq).tweak($<quote_mod>))>
well, :P5 would be based on regex language, not qq language, but same basic idea 00:46
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TimToady dinner & 00:49
mncharity ok. look forward to it. 00:59
spinclad also looks forward to TT's dinner # dinner:2nd(:courtesy($TT)) 01:01
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mncharity just can bring himself to add the 700 lines of Class::Multimethods inline into EmitSimpleP5.pm. not sure how to proceed... 01:06
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mncharity edit elsewhere... rewrite in mostly p6... ...? 01:06
*can't
If anyone has a good grasp of how p6 core oo works, I'd love to sketch a p6 oo on javascript architecture... 01:08
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mncharity aside from "it runs in peoples' browsers", js is also just about the only prototype-based oo language in widespread use, and thus perhaps a natural for supporting p6 oo. 01:09
Eevee mm, still don't like having vars named $/ and $Ā¢ 01:11
p6 oo on js would be interesting
mncharity ruby is another candidate, but it has a nasty habit of "almost but not quite real" "it looks like x, but it's faked".
* s//x looks like an object/ 01:12
re js interesting, indeed. could be notably better than my current ruby generating js games. 01:15
speaking of which... 01:16
tiglionabbit how do you mean ruby fakes things? 01:19
like how it doesn't have attributes, but accessors look and act just like them?
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mncharity hmm... it's clear elf has insufficient visibility at present. rouso's wiki pages speaking of using kp6, which would be clearly silly at this point... 01:20
ron rakudo: my $a2 = 3; $a2++ *= 5; say $a2;
exp_evalbot rakudo r27950 OUTPUT[4ā¤]
tiglionabbit also I'm with vee about being careful about allowing operators in variable names -- that makes some special cases in the parser, right? (then again, I guess it doesn't matter if it's no longer interpreted) 01:21
mncharity STD_gray should probably stall, waiting for a STD.pm update and STD_red sync timesink...
Auzon mncharity: I've been thinking about blogging about elf, and I'd send it to the SoC2008 planet. Maybe I can get it quoted on Perlbuzz too, if you're interested in some visibility. 01:22
mncharity ļ»ætiglionabbit: sorry, I overlooked your question, let's see...
re 'ļ»æhow do you mean ruby fakes things?', eg, methods pretend to be objects, unless you try to use them in a not-common-case manner, at which point you find they are an object-like facade around a more limited C core construct. 01:24
tiglionabbit I think I need an example to understand what you mean there 01:25
mncharity Yeah. Trying to remember an example. When doing anything aggressive you tend to keep hitting them... let's see... 01:26
tiglionabbit hehe, aggressive
I'm trying to remember if/how you can refer to methods without executing them 01:27
01:27 ron left
mncharity ļ»æAuzon: re visibility, the difficulty is how to get p6 compiler writer types excited about it, without generating a lot of interest by other people, for whom it will clearly be a disappointment (at least until named arguments and user objects are working better). 01:28
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tiglionabbit then again you can always wrap stuff with lambda 01:29
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tiglionabbit or use __send__ ... 01:30
huh
funny how I didn't think about this when I was using ruby
mncharity p6 has such noxious history out of parrot of saying things work when they don't, at least around Boston.pm and a few other samples, the primary characteristic of attitudes towards p6, is "I'll believe that bogus thing works when I actually see it". So expectation management seems at this point critically important.
01:30 cognominal_ left 01:31 alanhaggai left
Auzon I see. 01:31
01:31 alanhaggai joined
mncharity soo... not sure how to deal with that. 01:32
tiglionabbit make stone soup
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tiglionabbit make it work but be crappy and slow, then get people excited enough to fix it up 01:32
mncharity ļ»ætiglionabbit: re slow, we've tried that... didn't work, people got burned out on it. 01:34
tiglionabbit hm?
what do you mean? 01:35
mncharity kp6 was another p6 implementation. it was slow. that seemed a key aspect of peoples' individual decisions to cease working on it. 01:36
01:37 alanhaggai left
tiglionabbit yeah but parrot has something else going for it, right? The common language interface? 01:37
01:37 alanhaggai joined
tiglionabbit you just have to market it as tracer bullets. Like, "We used some stupid solutions in various places. Now good compiler designers can help us make it better" 01:38
it's not alive until it works 01:39
wknight8111 good compiler designers are key
tiglionabbit why would people abandon kp6 for this, anyway? 01:40
other than the cli
01:40 braceta joined
tiglionabbit (for parrot I mean) 01:41
mncharity re 'ļ»ærefer to methods without executing them', ruby-doc.org/core-1.9/classes/Modul...ml#M001273 , Method, etc. 01:42
lambdabot Title: Class: Module
tiglionabbit instance_method(symbol) okay 01:44
.bind(object).call ?
a bit obtuse, but oh well
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mncharity ļ»æAuzon: sooo.... not sure what to do. 01:47
but end of day for me.
good night all &
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tiglionabbit I am kind of worried that the project is named after the dead parrot skit 01:50
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japhb tiglionabbit: Parrot is not named after the python sketch, though of course that reference gets used at times. It's named after an April Fool's joke. 02:03
tiglionabbit I see 02:06
02:06 Caelum_ is now known as Caelum
tiglionabbit hahah, like how people like to put out virus alerts about viruses that don't exist yet so no one will suspect when they actually make the virus 02:06
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Khisanth japhb: a joke gone bad seems worse :) 02:40
japhb Khisanth: Parrot? I think of it as the joke that made good. :-) 02:43
Auzon pugs: class Test {method Str {"qwerty"}} 02:46
exp_evalbot RESULT[\method :($__SELF__ is rw is ref, @_, %_) "$_" := "Scalar" #<Scalar:0xb7b28354>ā¤ "@_" := "Array" #<Array:0xb7228d28>ā¤ "%_" := "Hash" #<Hash:0xb7b2835c>ā¤ "&?ROUTINE" :=
.."Sub" #<Sub:0xb6604cec>ā¤ ...
Auzon pugs: class Test {method Str {"qwerty"}}; my $t = Test.new; say ~$t;
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[<obj:Test>ā¤]
Auzon pugs: class Test {multi prefix:<~> is deep {"qwerty"}}; my $t = Test.new; say ~$t;
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[<obj:Test>ā¤]
Auzon pugs: class Test {multi prefix:<~> {"qwerty"}}; my $t = Test.new; say ~$t; 02:47
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[<obj:Test>ā¤]
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Auzon pugs: say 1_000 03:20
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1000ā¤]
Auzon pugs: say 1_0_0_0_000
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1000000ā¤]
Auzon TimToady: I don't see _ as a numeric separator mentioned in the spec explicitly, though it is used in the versioning comparison part of S02 (right before the heading "Context"). Is it still valid? 03:26
Eevee could swear I've seen that in the spec somewhere 03:27
perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Literals 03:29
lambdabot Title: S02
Eevee A single underscore is allowed only between any two digits in a literal number, where the definition of digit depends on the radix.
Auzon doh. Sorry TimToady
pmichaud @tell TimToady where is 'does' parsed, as in "class ABC does XYZ { ... }" ? 03:33
lambdabot Consider it noted.
Eevee how will the grammar handle lexically-scoped custom operators? 03:34
pmichaud operators are just subs 03:36
so it's the same as lexically-scoped subs
operators just have a funny name.
Eevee except sub names don't tend to be stuck together with no intermediate illegal character 03:37
pmichaud all characters are legal in sub names :-) 03:38
Eevee well okay yes, but not bare :P
audreyt pmichaud: "does" is parsed as trait_auxiliary, mentioned around S12:1436 (or did I miss what you were asking about?)
pmichaud audreyt: I meant in STD.pm
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audreyt it should be under rule trait_auxiliary:will in line 2607 03:39
but it's probably just missing?
pmichaud yes, I think it's missing.
thanks.
audreyt or maybe it falls under the general (no special rule needed) trait_auxiliary rule
line 335ish. not sure 03:40
pmichaud hmmmmm
audreyt i.e. it's parsed because it's defined in the symtable under the t_a categ
instead of needing a special rule.
pmichaud right.
seems like we should have a trait_auxiliary:general rule somewhere in STD.pm then 03:42
but you answered my question, thanks.
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spinclad {audreyt! wb!}.trigger 04:07
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dolmen perl6: say "Salut, les potes!!"; 08:57
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Salut, les potes!!ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Salut, les potes!!ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Salut, les potes!!ā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Salut, les potes!!ā¤]
dolmen perl6: say <1 2 3>.perl; 08:58
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[( '1', '2', '3' )ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[("1", "2", "3")ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[["1", "2", "3"]ā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[["1","2","3"]ā¤]
dolmen perl6: say (1^..3).perl; 09:08
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 4, line 1 column 4:ā¤say (1^..3).perlā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[(2, 3)ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Could not invoke non-existent sub infix:^..ā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 35 (EVAL_11:19)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at (eval 14) line 3, near "^.."ā¤ at ./elf_f_faster line 4492ā¤]
dolmen elf? 09:10
cognominal_ comment allez vous yau de poele?
dolmen ;)
09:15 lg joined
lg perl6 say hello 09:16
perl6 say 'hello';
perlbot say 'hello';
perlbot: say 'hello';
perl6: say 'hello';
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[helloā¤] 09:17
..pugs: OUTPUT[helloā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[helloā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[helloā¤]
dolmen perl6: say (1^..3).perl;
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 4, line 1 column 4:ā¤say (1^..3).perlā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[(2, 3)ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Could not invoke non-existent sub infix:^..ā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 35 (EVAL_11:19)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at (eval 14) line 3, near "^.."ā¤ at ./elf_f_faster line 4492ā¤]
dolmen perl6: say (1..3).perl;
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 4, line 1 column 4:ā¤say (1..3).perlā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[(1, 2, 3)ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[[1, 2, 3]ā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Use of uninitialized value in range (or flip) at (eval 14) line 3.ā¤""ā¤]
dolmen perl6: say (1..3).WHAT; 09:18
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 4, line 1 column 4:ā¤say (1..3).WHATā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Arrayā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Listā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Use of uninitialized value in range (or flip) at (eval 14) line 3.ā¤Strā¤]
dolmen perl6: say 1..3 xx 2; 09:22
lg perl6: my @stuff=1,2,4,foo;say @stuff[3]
09:22 exp_evalbot joined
dolmen perl6: say (1..3 xx 2).perl; 09:22
lg perl6: my @stuff=1,2,4,foo;say @stuff[3]
09:22 exp_evalbot left, exp_evalbot joined
lg perl6: my @stuff=1,2,4,foo;say @stuff[3] 09:22
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 11, line 1 column 11:ā¤my @stuff=1,2,4,foo;say @stuff[3ā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&foo"ā¤ at /tmp/cbQGmKGN2b line 1, column 17-20ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Could not invoke non-existent sub fooā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 42 (EVAL_11:23)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::foo called at (eval 14) line 3.ā¤ at ./elf_f_faster line 4492ā¤]
lg perl6: my @stuff=1,2,4,'foo';say @stuff[3] 09:23
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 11, line 1 column 11:ā¤my @stuff=1,2,4,'foo';say @stuff[3ā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[fooā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[fooā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[fooā¤]
09:25 Lorn left 09:28 edpratomo joined
dolmen perl6: class Toto { has $name; } 09:29
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: RESULT[no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Undef'ā¤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345ā¤ KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::MOP::__ANON__('HASH(0x824be04)', 'APPLY') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 169ā¤ 09:30
..main::DISPATCH('HASH(0x824be04)', 'APPLY') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/Kin...
..pugs: RESULT[undef]
..rakudo r27957: RESULT[Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Sub'ā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 38 (EVAL_11:18)ā¤
..elf r20598: RESULT[undefā¤]
dolmen perl6: class Toto { has $name; } say "Hello";
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Helloā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Helloā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "say \"Hello"ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/RApF9p0jBMā¤panic at line 1 column 0 (pos 0): Can't understand next input--giving upā¤WHERE: class Toto { has $name; } say ā¤WHERE:/\<-- HEREā¤ STD_red/prelude.rb:98:in `panic'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:76:in `scan_unitstopper'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:224:in `comp_unit'ā¤
..STD_red/std.rb:210:in `_UNIT'ā¤ ./../STD_red/STD_red_run:108:in `...
09:31 chris2 joined
dolmen perl6: class Toto { has $.name; } say "Hello"; 09:31
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Helloā¤] 09:32
..pugs: OUTPUT[Helloā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "say \"Hello"ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/ueGJQGwME9ā¤panic at line 1 column 0 (pos 0): Can't understand next input--giving upā¤WHERE: class Toto { has $.name; } sayā¤WHERE:/\<-- HEREā¤ STD_red/prelude.rb:98:in `panic'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:76:in `scan_unitstopper'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:224:in `comp_unit'ā¤
..STD_red/std.rb:210:in `_UNIT'ā¤ ./../STD_red/STD_red_run:108:in `...
dolmen perl6: class Toto { has $.name; }; say "Hello";
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Helloā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Helloā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Helloā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Helloā¤]
09:32 lisppaste3 left
dolmen perl6: class Student { has $.name; }.new( name => 'Toto'); 09:37
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 29, line 1 column 29:ā¤class Student { has $.name; }.new( name => 'Toto')ā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: RESULT[Scalar.new(("name" => "Toto"),)]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ".new( name"ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/fWeD1io3iOā¤panic at line 1 column 29 (pos 29): Statement not terminated properlyā¤WHERE: class Student { has $.name; }.new( name => 'Toto');ā¤WHERE: /\<-- HEREā¤ STD_red/prelude.rb:98:in `panic'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:355:in
..`eat_terminator'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:269:in `block in statementlist'ā¤ STD_re...
dolmen perl6: say class Student { has $.name; }.new( name => 'Toto' ).perl;
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling HASH(0x8e52364) on invalid object:$VAR1 = 'new';ā¤ā¤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 128ā¤ main::DISPATCH('new', 'HASH(0x8e52364)') called at - line 14ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[pugs: *** Can't modify constant item: VUndefā¤ at /tmp/ACdcNXZnBc line 1, column 1ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ".new( name"ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/8eVeyGweziā¤panic at line 1 column 33 (pos 33): Statement not terminated properlyā¤WHERE: class Student { has $.name; }.new( name => 'Toto' ).perl;ā¤WHERE: /\<-- HEREā¤ STD_red/prelude.rb:98:in `panic'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:355:in
..`eat_terminator'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:269:in `block in statementlist'ā¤... 09:38
dolmen perl6: say class { has $.name; }.new( name => 'Toto' ).perl;
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling HASH(0x8e53388) on invalid object:$VAR1 = 'new';ā¤ā¤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 128ā¤ main::DISPATCH('new', 'HASH(0x8e53388)') called at - line 13ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[pugs: *** Can't modify constant item: VUndefā¤ at /tmp/MhIKvBsKgW line 1, column 1ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[attempt to define attribute '' outside of class at line 1, near "; }.new( n"ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/1E81VG1WFBā¤panic at line 1 column 25 (pos 25): Statement not terminated properlyā¤WHERE: say class { has $.name; }.new( name => 'Toto' ).perl;ā¤WHERE: /\<-- HEREā¤ STD_red/prelude.rb:98:in `panic'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:355:in
..`eat_terminator'ā¤ STD_red/std.rb:269:in `block in statementlist'ā¤ STD_red/...
dolmen perl6: sub noop { ; } ; say noop.perl; 09:51
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[error in Block at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Grammar/Sub.pm line 362, <> line 1.ā¤*** Syntax Error in sub '': missing closing curly bracket ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[undefā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Missing '}' at line 1, near "; } ; say "ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Use of uninitialized value in join or string at ./elf_f_faster line 159.ā¤undefā¤]
dolmen perl6: sub noop { } ; say noop.perl; 09:52
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling perl on invalid object:$VAR1 = undef;ā¤ā¤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 128ā¤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'perl') called at - line 24ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[undefā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ".perl;"ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[undefā¤]
lg perl6: class Glass { has $content=0; method fill { $content++ }; method empty {$content--}}; class Pint is a GlassĀ {} 09:53
09:53 exp_evalbot left, exp_evalbot joined
dolmen perl6: sub noop { } ; say noop().perl; 09:53
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling perl on invalid object:$VAR1 = 0;ā¤ā¤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 128ā¤ main::DISPATCH(0, 'perl') called at - line 24ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[undefā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in find_method()ā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 35 (EVAL_10:16)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[undefā¤]
dolmen perl6: say (1..2).json; 09:54
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 4, line 1 column 4:ā¤say (1..2).jsonā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Array: "&json"ā¤ at /tmp/1utekgeVTE line 1, column 5-16ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Method 'json' not found for invocant of class 'List'ā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 49 (EVAL_13:20)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Use of uninitialized value in range (or flip) at (eval 14) line 3.ā¤Can't call method "json" without a package or object reference at (eval 14) line 3.ā¤ at ./elf_f_faster line 4492ā¤]
09:55 lisppaste3 joined
lg perl6: say 'hi folks'.WHAT 09:59
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Strā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Strā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Strā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Strā¤]
lg perl6: say Pari.WHAT 10:00
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling WHAT on invalid object:$VAR1 = undef;ā¤ā¤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 128ā¤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'WHAT') called at - line 11ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&Pari"ā¤ at /tmp/OCvysJRYjm line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in find_method()ā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 28 (EVAL_11:16)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[STRINGā¤]
dolmen perl6: say Int.WHAT
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Intā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Intā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Intā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[STRINGā¤]
dolmen perl6: say Num.WHAT
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Numā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Numā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Numā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[STRINGā¤]
lg perl6: say Pair.WHAT
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Pairā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Pairā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Pairā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[STRINGā¤]
10:03 edpratomo left
dolmen perl6: say Role.WHAT 10:03
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Classā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Roleā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[./parrot: error while loading shared libraries: /home/evalenv/parrot/blib/lib/libparrot.so.0.6.2: invalid ELF headerā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[STRINGā¤]
cognominal_ perl6: say hash( a =>1, :b<2>, c(3), :d, :!e )
dolmen perl6: say Class.WHAT 10:04
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 8, line 1 column 8:ā¤say hash( a =>1, :b<2>, c(3), :d, :!e ā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&c"ā¤ at /tmp/rDm19B1sAv line 1, column 25-29ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Could not invoke non-existent sub cā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 40 (EVAL_11:21)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::c called at (eval 14) line 3.ā¤ at ./elf_f_faster line 4492ā¤]
kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[Classā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Classā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in find_method()ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;P6object;WHAT' pc 107 (runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:123)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[STRINGā¤]
cognominal_ perl6: say hash( a =>1, :b<2>, :c(3), :d, :!e ) 10:05
10:05 exp_evalbot left
dolmen il n'a pas aimƩ 10:05
10:05 exp_evalbot joined
cognominal_ rakudo: say hash( a =>1, :b<2>, :c(3), :d, :!e ) 10:05
10:05 exp_evalbot left 10:06 exp_evalbot joined
pmichaud rakudo doesn't like that? I'm a bit surprised. 10:06
dolmen rakudo svn is currently broken
cognominal_ it works on my computer, that's rakudo from Friday morning
pmichaud wow, that's old. 10:07
cognominal_ I mean the rakudo of Friday works well for that statement
pmichaud right.
dolmen current rev 27957 is broken
cognominal_ jonathan talks is going well
pmichaud jonathan++
wish I was there.
cognominal_ jaws are dropping on the power of rakudo 10:08
pmichaud is it rakudo or Perl 6 that jaws are dropping for? ;-)
dolmen Class 'Perl6Array' already registered!
cognominal_ he is demonstrating live
hopeful on a buid that works
dolmen jonathan++
cognominal_ I did yesterday a live presentation on pct doing a simple grammar (no code generation), and that was fun 10:10
pmichaud yes, pct is fun also.
cognominal_ Francois Perrad was there to help me to fix my mistakes
dolmen pmichaud: sorry, make clean && make fixed the error
pmichaud dolmen: Whew!
dolmen perl6: say True.WHAT; 10:11
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling WHAT on invalid object:$VAR1 = undef;ā¤ā¤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 128ā¤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'WHAT') called at - line 11ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[Boolā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[Intā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[STRINGā¤]
dolmen so, Bool or Int ?
pmichaud S12 says: 10:12
Two built-in enums are:
our bit enum *bool <False True>; our bit enum *taint <Untainted Tainted>;
cognominal_ dolmen, I suppose that Bool is a subset of int
pmichaud so that implies to me that True is a bit
dolmen say (1 + (1 | 2)).perl; 10:13
perl6: say (1 + (1 | 2)).perl;
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[2ā¤3ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[(2 | 3)ā¤]
..rakudo r27957: OUTPUT[any("2", "3")ā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[4ā¤]
cognominal_ jonathan is localizing the example in his presentation. 10:14
dolmen a stringification occured...
pmichaud localizing?
cognominal_ I gave him a very bad pun
pmichaud ahhhhh
cognominal_ yesterday he was telling me about him presenting some slide titled "No more SM" 10:15
about perl5 m//sm 10:16
so I did the same with a dominatrix picture
lg perl6: say (1 + ((1|3) | 2)).perl 10:25
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[2ā¤3ā¤4ā¤3ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[(2 | 3 | 4)ā¤]
..rakudo r27960: OUTPUT[get_string() not implemented in class 'Junction'ā¤current instr.: 'infix_junction_helper' pc 6230 (src/gen_builtins.pir:4216)ā¤
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[4ā¤]
10:26 wknight8111 joined
lg perl6: say (1 + (1|3 | 2)).perl 10:29
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[2ā¤4ā¤2ā¤3ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[(2 | 3 | 4)ā¤]
..rakudo r27960: OUTPUT[any("2", "4", "3")ā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[4ā¤]
10:30 cognominal_ left
lg perl6: say ( (1|3 | 2)).perl 10:30
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[1ā¤3ā¤1ā¤2ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[(1 | 2 | 3)ā¤]
..rakudo r27960: OUTPUT[any(1, 3, 2)ā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[3ā¤]
lg perl6: say (1 + (1|3 | 2)).perl 10:31
exp_evalbot kp6 r20598: OUTPUT[2ā¤4ā¤2ā¤3ā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[(2 | 3 | 4)ā¤]
..rakudo r27960: OUTPUT[any("2", "4", "3")ā¤]
..elf r20598: OUTPUT[4ā¤]
dolmen time for lunch... 10:33
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Juerd Maybe this is a silly idea, but I find myself typing this a lot: 11:43
return "foo bar baz" if -e "foo bar baz";
Would be neat if you could write that as: 11:44
return that if -e "foo bar baz";
if -e "foo bar baz" { return that }
masak Juerd: what about `return $_ if -e $_ for 'foo bar baz'`?
Juerd Works but looks /worse/ than what I have no.
masak hm 11:45
Juerd s/no/now/
masak so 'that' is the last thing sent in as a first argument to a function?
Juerd Yep 11:46
It would not be a variable.
masak of course not. variables have sigils :)
Juerd Well, in Perl 6 perhaps a twigil might make sense
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Juerd But I was thinking of "that" as a construct with very limited visibility. 11:47
For all I care, it's just a macro that somehow knows the previous expression and evaluates it again.
wolverian that sounds like a race condition anyway :) 11:48
Juerd It is.
But there's no way to prevent the race condition with these kinds of things *anyway*
So adding another race doesn't bother me much.
Anyway, I'm not sure if this is implementable at all. It has all the ingredients of $& to be scary.
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pmichaud given 'foo bar baz' { -e $_ && return $_ } 13:43
"jaws are dropping" :-) 13:46
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masak pmichaud: I've revently been told that $_ can be clobbered within a given. what are your thoughts on that? 14:34
s/revently/recently/
14:50 poletti joined
masak what's the semantics of an INIT block inside eval'ed code? 14:52
S04 says "Code that is generated at run time can still fire off CHECK and INIT blocks, though of course those blocks can't do things that would require travel back in time." 14:53
could someone give an example of a thing that would require such travel?
also, what happens in such a case? runtime error? warning? nothing?
masak just found the tests that come along with that paragraph 14:55
pmichaud given sets $_ for the block 14:56
masak pmichaud: sure 14:57
but other things inside the block might set it to other things
pmichaud sure, they can do that 15:01
masak I can see there's no danger in this case, but I got the impression that in larger given blocks there might be 15:02
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pmichaud I suspect one can do given $foo -> $_ { ... } to make sure that $foo isn't modified. 15:06
masak yes... 15:07
gotta rush, see you
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rakudo_svn r27972 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: 16:13
r27972 | pmichaud++ | * Merge mutamerge + mutablerakudo branches into trunk.
r27972 | pmichaud++ | * All spectest_regression tests pass.
r27972 | pmichaud++ | * jonathan++ jonathan++ for Mutable implementation and merge help.
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rakudo_svn r27973 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: 16:33
r27973 | pmichaud++ | * Fix "switch missing default case" warning reported by NotFound++ .
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pugs_svnbot r20599 | diakopter++ | [yap6] 17:06
r20599 | diakopter++ | I stole the name from smop's history.
r20599 | diakopter++ | This is my functional/MJD approach to STD.pm
r20599 | diakopter++ | ./yap6 will be autogenerated at some point;
r20599 | diakopter++ | This is not ready for primetime or anything,
r20599 | diakopter++ | but have fun playing with the toy calculator.
diakopter moritz_: irc logger? 17:09
oh; it was netsplit. oh well
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lichtkind TimToady: while yin() { yang() } say "done"; # ILLEGAL 18:02
TimToady: i get whyt but its that not a bit incosistent since you said that every } has an inherit ;
pmichaud no 18:03
every } at the end of a line is a statement terminator.
(if a statement terminator could occur there.)
lichtkind pmichaud: thanks 18:08
pmichaud you're welcome! 18:09
lichtkind pmichaud: you i still writing the perl 6 tutorial series of articles, hopefully soon in english too :) 18:18
pmichaud excellent! 18:19
rakudo even supports more of them now :-)
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lichtkind pmichaud: i know i talked with jonathan and tene 18:28
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garnm anyone worked on ircds? 18:50
nevermin OT 18:51
pmichaud just to copy a comment from #parrot to #perl6: 18:52
I _really_ like evalbot. Thanks to the folks who set it up and maintain it. 18:53
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TimToady I was just saying over there that it'd be cool if there was a mode in which you could get one-line summaries of the consensus answer (if any), and which engines are dissenting from that answer, with a link to the full report 18:55
lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
TimToady @messages
lambdabot pmichaud said 15h 22m 31s ago: where is 'does' parsed, as in "class ABC does XYZ { ... }" ?
TimToady yes, does is missing from the trait_auxilliary list 18:56
s/ll/l/ 18:57
19:00 Blasi joined
pmichaud audreyt++ helpfully suggested the answer 19:01
b_jonas are p6 scalars like p5 scalars in that they may contain an integer, float, and string version of the data simultanously 19:16
?
TimToady p6 objects tend to think of themselves as having only one type, but that doesn't mean the implementation of a type couldn't cache other representations 19:24
such cached values shouldn't have any influence on mutable/immutable decisions, though 19:25
b_jonas if such caching happens, should the String, Float, Int etc classes do it, or the Scalar container itself? 19:26
having only one type... ah, so a string with a cached integer value and an integer with a cached string value is no longer the same?
I see
thanks 19:27
TimToady Scalar might be a useful spot to hang a cached value but it might be difficult to maintain cache coherency for mutable values. 19:29
would be fine for immutables, presumably
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TimToady I guess the question would be whether all access to the mutable value goes through Scalar... 19:30
b_jonas hmm
TimToady I'd be inclined to doubt it, unless proven otherwise
b_jonas so then probably Int and Float and String will do the caching
that's more uniform anyway, since stringification and numification and integrification aren't cached for user objects by default anyway 19:31
TimToady well, to the first approx those are roles rather than classes, so some classes based on them could cache, and others not
b_jonas also String does more arcane kinds of caching, like strxfrm
and substr helpers for variable-width encodings
hmm 19:32
TimToady yes, strings get complicated wrt mutability
b_jonas so you could just have a role you can use for anything to cache the stringification or any other context?
would make sense that way
TimToady dunno if there's a decent way to do wrapper methods with a role, offhand... 19:33
b_jonas strings are mutable? 19:34
TimToady since you'd want the same method name for the cached version as the underlying uncached version...
b_jonas they were immutable in perl5
TimToady strings are mutable in p5
b_jonas eek
but will usual methods mutate them in place?
I mean, why wasn't the perl5 way good for them?
TimToady there are times you want mutable strings, and times you want immutable 19:35
b_jonas perl5 could catch lots of cases when there's just one reference so it actually performed the mutation in place
if you just have a string in a mutable container, wouldn't that work?
TimToady well, perl5 didn't really care whether there was more than one ref
b_jonas semantically, yes
dunno
mutable strings also cause headaches for the c interface I think 19:36
TimToady a mutable container doesn't help you if you want to change one character in the middle of a 18gigabyte string.
but mutable strings make less sense with Unicode
b_jonas I think that should happen transparently 19:37
that is, you just have an immutable string
TimToady so mainly we'll just rely on the Str container to decide when to "mute" :)
b_jonas and the compiler or interpreter knows you won't use the old copy when you do the 1-character change
but mutable string can be useful as well
TimToady well, you'll note the S02 defines Str as immutable. 19:38
and Buf as mutable
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Juerd TimToady: I'm under the impression that 18 GB text strings are, at best, very uncommon. 19:43
19:44 poletti is now known as polettix
TimToady you've got a whole bunch of 'em inside you 19:44
Juerd They're encoded into some binary form.
TimToady base 4, actually
Juerd I decode parts back to text when I need them, and that's how I expect Perl use will be for the next few decades too.
I don't understand why the length of a string makes it being mutable make less sense. 19:45
I'd expect it to make MORE sense. You certainly don't want to COPY all those 18 gigabytes, to insert a single character. 19:46
TimToady that was my point
Juerd Then I don't understand why I interpreted what you said as the exact opposite.
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lichtkind pmichaud++ 20:09
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b_jonas oh, that's better 20:29
I wonder if maybe both Str and Buf should be immutable by default, but there could be some mutable variants as well for when you want to optimize stuff
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b_jonas just a few months ago, I wanted to implement the interface of a c function in ruby 20:30
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b_jonas the c function wants a string argument 20:30
and it can be blocking 20:31
like write
(but it wasn't write, write's already implemented)
now in such a case you don't want to copy the string because it could be large
but you also have to take care for ruby code could modify the string from another thread while you're blocking
so that's one place when immutable strings could be useful
otoh even if a string is immutable it might not seem so from c 20:32
so it's really a different matter
that's more the task of a real c interface
which ruby doesn't have
Patterner Just learn from Java and have String and StringBuffer :) 20:34
pugs_svnbot r20600 | diakopter++ | Lots o' changes. :) 20:46
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rindolf Hi all. 21:32
TimToady: here?
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pbuetow hi rindolf 22:30
rindolf Hi pbuetow 22:32
22:32 thestarslookdown left
rindolf pbuetow: what's up? 22:32
I think I'll shave before I go to sleep.
pbuetow rindolf: not much! being lazy!
rindolf I feel uncomfortable. 22:33
pbuetow: so am I.
pbuetow: what time is it there?
pbuetow its 00:32am
only 1h difference :) 22:34
22:34 jisom left
rindolf pbuetow: ah. 22:39
pbuetow: .eu, right?
Or Africa.
pbuetow yes, .de
rindolf pbuetow: ah, cool.
pbuetow no not africa, ve never been there :/
rindolf pbuetow: well, it's Sunday tomorrow. 22:40
pbuetow: I haven't been to Africa, either.
Only Europe and NA.
And Israel.
pbuetow i ll be in bulgaria next week, for a week :)
rindolf Which is technically in Asia.
pbuetow: ah, cool.
pbuetow: do you like Bulgaria.
perlbot: .bu
perlbot: .bl 22:41
pbuetow perlbot: .bg
perlbot .bg is Bulgaria
rindolf .bg
I see.
pbuetow well its okay, but now it's better, because my GF is from .bg
rindolf Can I get rindolf.bg?
pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow .bg domains are expensive
rindolf pbuetow: crazy Europeans.
pbuetow: ah.
gimps.bg
pbuetow .de are very cheap
rindolf wallpapers.bgf
pbuetow: yes.
pbuetow loll 22:42
rindolf I'd like a .to domain.
I think they are cheap too.
Already have shlomifish.org
pbuetow i am okay with my .org and .net domains :)
rindolf pbuetow: OK.
pbuetow yes i know your site :)
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pbuetow well i dont use .de because i want to keep my content 'international', dont know if i gonna stay in .de 22:42
rindolf pbuetow: I wanted to upload the Drupal for perl-speak.org today, but was too lazy. 22:43
pbuetow: OK.
pbuetow so i stay with generic SLDs
mine is buetow.org :)
rindolf .co.uk etc. domains are also esteemed.
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rindolf Hmmm... seems like KDE is a moving target now in this MDV upgrade. 22:44
buetow is nice and short.
pbuetow hmm, i prefer FVWM + some gnome apps :)
rindolf pbuetow: I'm a die-hard KDE user. 22:45
At least KDE-3.5.x
pbuetow do you like kde 4? or still using 3?
rindolf Been using it since 2.0.x or so.
pbuetow 4.1 is gonna be out soon
rindolf pbuetow: still KDE3.
pbuetow: yes.
pbuetow: I didn't like 4.0.x
pbuetow well you woll give 4.1 a shot i guess
rindolf pbuetow: but 4.1.x should be better.
pbuetow: yes, I will.
pbuetow i used to use a lot of different desktops/windowmanagers
rindolf 4.0.x was very buggy.
pbuetow: ah. 22:46
pbuetow but now i am sticking with fvwm since 2 years
rindolf pbuetow: I personally could never configure FVWM to my liking.
perlbot: .co
perlbot .co is Colombia
rindolf Colombia.
pbuetow rindolf: configuring FVWM is like configuring sendmail :P
rindolf Useful instead of .com
There's also .cc
pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow (not the same syntax of course)
rindolf pbuetow: when I need something lightweight, I use IceWM. 22:47
pbuetow i've a perl module for my fvwm, which is managing the transparency of my windows.
rindolf pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow rindolf: i used to use WindowMaker and Fluxbox too a lot, as well as wmii
rindolf pbuetow: MiGo has been doing some fvwm work.
pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow but my FVWM has now keybindings like evilwm + more 22:48
rindolf pbuetow: well, I'm using many KDE apps, so running the desktop seems reasonanble.
pbuetow rindolf: yeah
rindolf: at least you can do your job :)
rindolf pbuetow: and I was able to run it comfortable on a P3-667MHz 22:49
Of course it runs faster on my P4-2.4GHz.
pbuetow rindolf: the newest version of KDE3?
rindolf pbuetow: don't know.
pbuetow: what was back then.
I had to upgrade my mem from 0.5 GB to 2.5 GB though. 22:50
pbuetow hehehe
ram is always good
rindolf Because it seemed that 0.5 GB was a bit sluggish.
Wwell, especially when I had Java.
pbuetow my laptop now has 2gb of ram, not 512mb any more. but i never use as much.
well, 2gb of ram was a gift
rindolf My new computer should be able to scale up to 12 GB or 16 GB or so.
pbuetow: ah, from who?
pbuetow: what does your gf do, BTW? 22:51
pbuetow she is english teacher, nothing with computers :/ but well, i am ok with that :)
rindolf: from my father for xmas, the 2gb of ram 22:52
rindolf pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow: we still need teachers.
pbuetow: computers are a poor substitute for teachers.
pbuetow: well, when teachers are good.
pbuetow rindolf: where?
rindolf pbuetow: I mean humans need teachers.
pbuetow yes ;) 22:53
rindolf I had a really good English teacher at the 11th grade.
pbuetow well i never was very good in english
rindolf And my other English teachers were also good.
pbuetow: does she speak German, too?
pbuetow until i went to the US as an exchange student. now my english is much better, but still not perfect
rindolf pbuetow: ah. 22:54
pbuetow rindolf: she speaks english and bulagarian (fluently), german, french, russian enough to communicate
rindolf pbuetow: my English has improved greatly after high-school.
And still is.
pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow: so you communicate with her in English?
pbuetow rindolf: and some other languages, which are similar to russian and bulagarian, i think serbian etc
rindolf pbuetow: ah.
I know a few kids from Croatia, Slovenia, etc. 22:55
pbuetow rindolf: english is the easiest way, but once a while we teach each other german or bulgarian
rindolf pbuetow: ah, I see.
pbuetow i ve been in slovenia and croatia last year :)
rindolf pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow slovenia on drive through to croatia
rindolf pbuetow: did you like it there?
pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow in coratia for vacations, it was nice :)
rindolf pbuetow: ah. 22:56
pbuetow slovenia, they have cheap gas
rindolf pbuetow: I didn't know Dalmatia was in Croatia.
I just knew there was a Dalmatian dog.
pbuetow uh, me either
rindolf pbuetow: "um, neither did I."
pbuetow: I'm the grammar nazi.
pbuetow hehehe
rindolf www.ozyandmillie.org/d/20080528.html 22:57
lambdabot Title: Ozy and Millie: Grammar Nazi
pbuetow i think i ll learn bulgarian
rindolf pbuetow: well, at least in Hebrew.
pbuetow hehe
we could conversate in perl poetry :P 22:58
but here it's perl6, don't know perl6 good enough yet
rindolf pbuetow: Perl is not as useful for human<->human conversation as English or whatever is.
pbuetow: I'm not very versed in Perl 6 either. 22:59
pbuetow well, at least it's fun
rindolf pbuetow: and poetry can be harmful.
pbuetow why can it be harmful?
rindolf pbuetow: Plato identified Poetry as divine madness.
pbuetow: Poetry is a right hemisphere function. Freeform Speech is a left hemisphere function. 23:00
pbuetow ah
rindolf perlbot: bicameral
perlbot: jaynes
perlbot: search for jaynes
perlbot Sorry, no factoids contain the string "jaynes"
rindolf perlbot: search for bicameral
perlbot Sorry, no factoids contain the string "bicameral"
rindolf How is that possible? 23:01
pbuetow: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology) 23:02
spinclad perlbot: search with your other hemisphere 23:03
perlbot Sorry, no factoids contain the string "with your other hemisphere"
pbuetow rindolf: huh! i am not going to read that! i am too tired (and lazy) ;)
rindolf pbuetow: anyway, the book is a very reocmmended read.
pbuetow: you can read the article.
pbuetow rindolf: maybe if i ve graduated (lots of stuff to do)
rindolf pbuetow: or you can bookmark it. 23:04
pbuetow in 3 months
rindolf pbuetow: ah.
pbuetow i ll be, i hope
rindolf pbuetow: are you still an undergrad?
pbuetow yes
i am writing on my diploma thesis atm
lots of work :/
rindolf Konqi looks weird now.
pbuetow rindolf: do you use LaTeX for your writings?
rindolf It doesn't happen with gtk+/gnome apps.
pbuetow: a bit.
pbuetow: but also DocBook/XML, HTML, POD , etc. 23:05
pbuetow rindolf: do you use a spell checker with LaTeX?
rindolf pbuetow: LaTeX is problematic.
pbuetow ispell/aspell?
rindolf pbuetow: no, I don't.
23:05 justatheory left
pbuetow i need to 23:05
rindolf pbuetow: I'm using aspell.
pbuetow i am used to LaTeX
rindolf pbuetow: for Englih.
pbuetow but need to set up a spell checker
rindolf Not for Hebrew.
pbuetow well i m writing in german
rindolf pbuetow: LaTeX is a kludge.
pbuetow i start writing next week, my software for the thesis ist almost done
rindolf pbuetow: there's no problem writing DB/XML in German. 23:06
pbuetow now i ve to write those things down
rindolf pbuetow: you can convert latex to DocBook/XML or HTML+MathML.
pbuetow: using h4t
pbuetow i think you can convert LaTeX to everything known in the universe :)
well i can use the spell checker of vim or an external spell checker like a spell. which also should support LaTeX. 23:07
s/a spell/aspell/
rindolf pbuetow: I have an idea to write a post-modern typesetting system. 23:09
As an alternative to TeX/LaTeX and Troff.
A saner alternative.
pbuetow can you complete it next week? :P
so i can use it.
(just kidding)
rindolf pbuetow: it will take a while. 23:23
I'm planning to generate XSL-FO, SVG, MathML, etc.
To make my life easier. 23:24
pbuetow rindolf: i understand, sounds interesting 23:26
rindolf: tell me, if you want testers 23:27
23:27 dominiko joined
rindolf pbuetow: sure. 23:28
pbuetow: it's still pie-in-the-sky.
pbuetow: I haven't written a single line of code yet.
pbuetow: just have two docs.
pbuetow rindolf: ok ;) planing is important
rindolf pbuetow: it's one of my "world-domination projects"
pbuetow lol 23:29
rindolf Great ideas, but not enough motivation.
Well, I'm going to sleep. 23:35
Hopefully I can fall asleep easily.
pbuetow rindolf: good night. 23:37
rindolf pbuetow: night.
Or maybe I'll eat something beforehand.
I could prepare rice in the microwave. 23:38
pbuetow i always need meat
rindolf Maybe I should do cog. psy. exercises.
pbuetow: meat makes you active.
dominiko I'm new here, I thought this was about Perl. 23:39
pbuetow dominiko: yes, it is about perl6 23:40
dominiko ok good, not just about food then.
pbuetow yes! 23:41
dominiko I've been ignoring Perl6 so far but I read a bit about it today, and ... it looks promising. 23:42
rindolf dominiko: it looks very promising to me too.
dominiko: not sure if I like the entire thing, but it has many excitign features.
dominiko: I think we'll see ideas from it in many places. 23:43
dominiko but gosh it takes time. Are we seeing the light at the end of the tunnel? I don't mean to say that as a criticism, all good things take time.
rindolf dominiko: well, right now Rakudo seems like the way to go.
dominiko: Pugs is mostly dead.
dominiko: and is dog-slow.
dominiko: I voiced some criticism against perl 6 in the past. 23:44
perlbot: perl6-crit
perlbot: search for crit
perlbot Found 3 matches for "crit": port 2467, perl6crit, perl 6 critique
rindolf perlbot: perl6crit
perlbot rindolf's Perl6 critique: freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339 -- but be sure to read at least this comment too: freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339#comment-32746
lambdabot Title: freshmeat.net: Editorials - Critique of Where Perl 6 is Heading
pbuetow pugs used to be about 20 times slower than perl5, last time i tested it. dont really remember what i tested, some parsing stuff i think.
rindolf pbuetow: yeah. 23:45
pbuetow: it was also slow for the Graham Function.
dominiko yes, I read... it's optmized for... fun
instead of speed or memory
but fun is important
pbuetow but it's very nice to have had pugs!
rindolf dominiko: but slow running code is not fun.
dominiko: the faster a program runs, he happier you are.
dominiko: wait a sec.
dominiko won't there be a c or c++ implementation? 23:46
pbuetow perl6 (rakudo) will uses a virtual machine, which itself is in C
rindolf dominiko: shlomif.livejournal.com/52579.html - fun, happiness, etc.
pbuetow -will
lambdabot Title: shlomif: What Motivates People and How?
pbuetow dominiko: www.parrotcode.org 23:47
lambdabot Title: Parrot Virtual Machine - parrotcode
rindolf Oooh... TimToady got op.
A languages designer with power!
pbuetow hehe.
rindolf Is there spam or something? 23:48
23:50 rindolf left 23:51 bacek__ left

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