pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, smop: etc.) || We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by TimToady on 25 January 2008.
pugs_svnbot r20793 | diakopter++ | [yap6] lots of visual cleanup; some rule fixing; 00:04
r20793 | diakopter++ | a tester.pm;sbin/test facility introduced to make
r20793 | diakopter++ | experimentation with Parser.pm easier. Stable
r20793 | diakopter++ | checkpoint for the tester.pm grammar...
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pugs_svnbot r20794 | diakopter++ | [yap6] a few more fixes 00:31
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diakopter like, not cool. 01:19
turns out continuation passing style is wrong for this algorithm. so it's another refactoring. 8|
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pugs_svnbot r20795 | diakopter++ | [yap6] converted back to normal rule production 02:02
r20795 | diakopter++ | now for making the ast generation actually work...
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pugs_svnbot r20796 | diakopter++ | [yap6] well now it's just a very strict tokenizer... 05:09
Auzon but does it work? ;) 05:10
diakopter it does indeed tokenize.
Auzon How much can it tokenize?
diakopter :)
I'm trying to invent a decent syntax for telling the grammar engine in what order the parsed "tokens" should be passed to the handler(s) 05:11
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Auzon rakudo: class Foo {method Bar {1}}; say Foo.new.HOW.methods.perl 05:18
p6eval rakudo r28335 OUTPUT[Method 'methods' not found for invocant of class 'P6metaclass'ā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 52 (EVAL_12:21)ā¤
Auzon rakudo: class Foo {method Bar {1}}; say Foo.new.^methods.perl
p6eval rakudo r28335 OUTPUT[MMD function __concatenate not found for types (152, -98)ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6;Grammar;Actions;dotty' pc 107997 (src/gen_actions.pir:8237)ā¤
pugs_svnbot r20797 | diakopter++ | [yap6] 05:22
r20797 | diakopter++ | particle
r20797 | diakopter++ | thinks
r20797 | diakopter++ | *he's*
r20797 | diakopter++ | embarassed
r20797 | diakopter++ | ....
r20798 | Auzon++ | [gsoc_spectest] moved what.t into the spec portion, and added new tests to check the difference between ."WHAT" and .WHAT when a WHAT method exists.
r20799 | lwall++ | [STD5] implemented lazymap to defer some of the closure calls 05:28
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diakopter yap6: say $a; my $foo = sub { has $ears; does $flying; };;; 05:31
p6eval yap6 r20799 OUTPUT[parsed: [["use"],["v6"],[";"],["say"],["\$"],["a"],[";"],["my"],["\$"],["foo"],["="],["sub"],["{"],["has"],["\$"],["ears"],[";"],["does"],["\$"],["flying"],[";"],["}"],[";"],[";"],[";"],["EOI"]]ā¤]
Auzon .WHAT? We have no multiple inheritance tests?
diakopter see, told you it's just a tokenizer
Auzon yap6: class Foo is Bar {}
p6eval yap6 r20799 OUTPUT[syntax error near the end of inputā¤[["use"],["v6"],[";"],["class"],["Foo"]]]
diakopter well now 05:32
Auzon :P
pugs_svnbot r20800 | diakopter++ | [yap6] class Foo is Bar {} 05:34
diakopter or not 05:35
Auzon dang. forgot to tag my last commit that I added 2 tests :-/ 05:37
diakopter argh 05:39
Auzon no worries.
I just add it onto this one
I think this is a sign for me to sleep.
pugs_svnbot r20801 | Auzon++ | [gsoc_spectest] more TASKS and tests for class methods with inheritance. (added 4 tests here)
r20801 | Auzon++ | also, last time: (added 2 tests) 05:40
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diakopter hrm; sumpthinz rawng whiff duh sawrce fi'ter 05:53
pugs_svnbot r20802 | diakopter++ | [yap6] the afore-mentioned works now, but the related syntax checking is not 05:55
r20802 | diakopter++ | quite as technically strict as it ought to be..
diakopter yap6: class ^Foo is Bar {} 05:58
p6eval yap6 r20802 OUTPUT[parsed: [["use"],["v6"],[";"],["class"],["^"],["Foo"],["is"],["Bar"],["{"],["}"],["EOI"]]ā¤]
diakopter like I said, a super-strict tokenizer
yap6: class ^Trunk (Elephant $Dumbo:, $crow) does Flying { has Ears; } 06:06
p6eval yap6 r20802 OUTPUT[parsed: [["use"],["v6"],[";"],["class"],["^"],["Trunk"],["("],["Elephant"],["\$"],["Dumbo"],[":"],[","],["\$"],["crow"],[")"],["does"],["Flying"],["{"],["has"],["Ears"],[";"],["}"],["EOI"]]ā¤]
diakopter yap6: use Another; package SomethingOrOther; 06:08
p6eval yap6 r20802 OUTPUT[Can't declare a non-block package at lib/Perl6in5/Compiler/Parser.pm line 857.ā¤]
diakopter yap6: use Another; package SomethingOrOther { sub Begone {} ; } 06:10
p6eval yap6 r20802 OUTPUT[parsed: [["use"],["v6"],[";"],["use"],["Another"],[";"],["package"],["SomethingOrOther"],["{"],["sub"],["Begone"],["{"],["}"],[";"],["}"],["EOI"]]ā¤]
diakopter well, panic() works
ok well, finally the engine is decently stable and fast (enough)... tomorrow a zillion more rules. and probably lots of slowdown. 06:15
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gourav hi 07:54
is any one live here at this time 07:56
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gourav new to IRC and pugs 08:05
had a wonderful chat last time
can anyone suggest to start contributing where do I get started from exactly
that is I am looking for some mentoring
Tene Hi, gourav! 08:06
What is it you're interested in?
gourav hi Tene
just interested in starting to write some code for PERL6 development and thereby start contributing 08:07
I know languages like PERL, PHP, VBA and C and presently learning JAVA as well
Tene gourav: your best bet is to look at parrot. That's the Perl 6 implementation that has been making the most progress lately.
Pugs has been inactive for a long time.
gourav that's great 08:08
Tene rakudo (the name for perl 6 on parrot) has been making a lot of progress lately.
08:08 Ched- left
Tene The best channel for that is #parrot on irc.perl.org 08:08
What sort of tasks are you interested in?
gourav I went through quite a lot of documentation lately but was not able to find any area where i can look exactly what to code/ test for
any ideas 08:09
Tene Okay, the main test suite is in the pugs repository, in the t/ directory.
gourav that sounds great but how do I go there 08:10
Tene There are copies of the specifications online at spec.pugscode.org/ I believe.
lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
Tene Have you ever used svn before?
moritz_ perlcabal.org/syn/ <-- specification
lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
Tene Why do they both claim to be official?
gourav yeah use that regularly in office for saving code backup
moritz_ svn.pugscode.org/pugs <-- svn 08:11
lambdabot Title: Revision 20802: /
moritz_ in t/TASKS there's a list of things that need testing
gourav join #parrot
Tene I think you said you're looking to write tests?
gourav yes quite true
i think that should be starting point for me
this will the first time that i will really be contrubuting 08:12
(sorry for the sad english this keyboard is a little pesky)
Tene that is a great place to start
gourav Tene which is the great place to start 08:15
still have not found any place from where I can download any code from the SVN
Tene gourav: svn co svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ 08:16
lambdabot Title: Revision 20802: /
gourav yeah found that 08:17
but as Tene said that the major development is happening on the PERL6 development on PARROT
Tene Yes, but they both share the same tests 08:18
gourav good so how do I start the testing and contributing my test results
Tene What platform are you running on? 08:19
gourav ubuntu
their desktop edition
Tene Okay.
svn co svn.perl.org/parrot/
lambdabot Title: Revision 28335: /
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pmurias gourav: you should also take a look at elf pugs/misc/elf 08:25
which is also actively developed 08:27
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moritz_ uhm, checking out trunk/ of the parrot repo should be enough 09:16
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Tene oh, good suggestion. 09:32
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moritz_ rakudo: say <a b>.WHAT 11:16
p6eval rakudo r28336 OUTPUT[Listā¤]
moritz_ rakudo: say <a>.WHAT
p6eval rakudo r28336 OUTPUT[Strā¤]
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rakudo_svn r28337 | particle++ | [rakudo] more list function tests for spectest_regression (moritz++) 11:34
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pmurias is svnbot alive? 15:39
pugs_svnbot r20803 | pmurias++ | [yap6] executables other than "perl" don't need to do perl5 recognition so "use v6" shouldn't be mandator in yap6
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pmurias diakopter: do you have an idea how to generate the sub foo(); list? 15:59
(other the stuffing it into the source filter)
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pugs_svnbot r20804 | pmurias++ | [yap6] did the refactoring correctly 16:08
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diakopter pmurias: drat; I already had made a lot of changes there; that's ok; I'll merge them 16:20
thanks again... ! it was a tough problem for me
pmurias np 16:21
moritz_ diakopter: that's why they say "commit early, commit often" ;)
diakopter I was trying to put your generation routines in Grammar.pm ... the only thing stopping me is getting the STD_hand.pm package name to the sub so it can put the symbols in the right place... any ideas? 16:23
I wonder if FILTER {} receives any arguments... 16:24
(like the importing package's name) :)
pmurias diakopter: you can pass them through import 16:25
&import
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pmurias (my new laptop)++ #having a hardware button to swith off the touchpad 16:34
why do you need the source filter to receive arguments? 16:37
ruoso perl6: my $cond = 0; my @a = $cond ?? 1 !! 2, 3, 4; 16:39
p6eval kp6 r20804: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 37, line 1 column 37:ā¤my $cond = 0; my @a = $cond ?? 1 !! 2, 3, 4ā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: RESULT[[2, 3, 4]]
..rakudo r28349: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "?? 1 !! 2,"ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20804: OUTPUT[Unknown rule: infix:conditionalā¤It needs to be added to ast_handlers.ā¤ at ./elf_f_faster line 2693ā¤]
ruoso perl6: my $cond = 0; my @a = $cond ?? 1 !! (2, 3, 4);
pmurias cycling&
p6eval kp6 r20804: RESULT[[ 2, 3, 4 ]]
..pugs: RESULT[[2, 3, 4]]
..rakudo r28349: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "?? 1 !! (2"ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)ā¤
..elf r20804: OUTPUT[Unknown rule: infix:conditionalā¤It needs to be added to ast_handlers.ā¤ at ./elf_f_faster line 2693ā¤]
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diakopter pmurias: oh; you're right; the source filter doesn't need it, but &rule does... 16:43
so I guess the source filter could insert __PACKAGE__ in there... without it being magical at the time... 16:44
ruoso moritz_, I've just replied to larry's reply on your post... I'm now a strong opposer of the our multi join(Any, Str) thing... 16:46
I've just realised that it could lead to a lot of false-hits
moritz_ ruoso: probably join(Any, *@rest)
pmurias diakopter: rule can use caller 16:47
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ruoso moritz_, Any being the separator? 16:47
I also realised that
moritz_ ruoso: forget what I just said, that was mindless
ruoso join 1, 2, 3, 4, ', ' 16:48
is kinda lame
join ', ', 1, 2, 3, 4; makes much more sense
moritz_ join(Any $separator: *@rest) perhaps
ruoso yes... that's the p5 order...
which seems to be inverted now...
join(@things, $separator) is the proposed order...
at least that is what I got from TimToady's reply... 16:49
TimToady no
the multi syntax is exactly as in Perl 5
ruoso so how 'str'.join('other') returns 'str'?
TimToady the single-dispatch syntax is purely $what_to_join($separator) 16:50
$what_to_join.join($sep) rahter
and there is no failover (at least, not there)
moritz_ anyway, TimToady++ for a clear answer to my question
ruoso but if join is not a method of $what_to_join, it falls back by putting $what_to_join as first parameter... 16:51
so... $what_to_join.join($sep) becomes join($what_to_join, $sep)
TimToady there is no fall back if it hits the .join method in Any
ruoso ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
TimToady and may never be any fallback anyway if we also open Door 3
but that's an independent decision, more or less 16:52
ruoso yes... now it is... 16:53
so... forget about the reply I just sent five minutes ago ;) 16:54
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Auzon TimToady++ # thanks for seeing the issues that I thought about with $unknown.join('foo') 16:58
TimToady ruoso: hasn't come through yet, so I'll have to remember to forget it... :) 16:59
ruoso TimToady, btw... had you thought more about the meta calls? 17:06
TimToady no, but I can probably think about it after my talk on Monday 17:07
ruoso alright...
TimToady brane is currently in STDspace
ruoso btw... if the fallback to sub-dispatch is dropped, the other issue pending on p6-language would also be solved... 17:08
TimToady most of the need for fallback was already dealt with via "is export", which handles the case where you *do* want to shadow the method with foo($invocant,@args) 17:10
it's just that join isn't one of those
ruoso each second I like more the idea of dropping it
it would make the dispatch much simpler 17:11
TimToady which is why I asked for a use case some time ago, and haven't really heard one
ruoso oh.. you meant a use case where the fallback is actually needed..
not a confusing one...
TimToady yes, a reason to include the feature 17:12
ruoso I really think it brings a lot of unexpected trouble...
because the Package and the Class have unrelated lives 17:13
and Package modification could cause unexpected changes in Classes
and the dispatcher will be much more complicated...
TimToady well, it would just be one dispatch calling the other dispatcher when it runs out of candidates 17:14
moritz_ TimToady: wouldn't it make sense to move most of the List builtins to Positional?
ruoso that would require the object dispatcher to introspect to get the CALLER semantics
moritz_, actually we still need a more clear "iterator" api... 17:15
TimToady Positional implies indexibility, and you can join something that you can iterate, even if it doesn't provide a subscript interface
so maybe Iterable
or some such
moritz_ TimToady: ok, makes sense
ruoso Iterable and RWIterable? 17:16
moritz_ so prefix:= is defined by default or Iteratable ?
TimToady I wish people wouldn't use the parrot shortcut to name operators...
moritz_ no need for separate roles if we have parametrized mixins, I think
prefix:<=> # better? 17:17
TimToady much easier to read, I think
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TimToady and unamibuous when you want to talk about circumfix:<( )> vs circumfix:Ā«< >Ā» 17:18
*unambiguous
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ruoso about the API... I know the "Iterable" API seems a lot to be implementation specific... but higher-level "Iterable" implementations that want to behave like normal lists need to have that API as a standard 17:19
like... for (@foo) --> $x {...} 17:20
where @foo is implemented by some high-level class
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ruoso or simply foo() ==> bar() ==> baz() 17:22
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holst I read about the C# bytecode and how they have "true multidimensional arrays" 18:15
however, they enforce C ordering
does the bytecode in the new perl6 system support both Fortran and C ordering?
diakopter pmurias - I figured out how to move your routines to Perl6in5::Grammar... I used a tricky mixin. :p 18:16
TimToady holst: it would depend on which new perl6 system you're talking about. Perl 6 the language doesn't care, though if it did care it would tend toward C. But Perl 6 objects are opaque in layout, and that includes arrays. 18:19
holst so there are no shape associated with the arrays in the byte code? 18:20
wolverian which byte code? 18:21
holst I was reading some BLISS code and they have the ability to define general access methods for multidimensional arrays: diagonal, n-diagonal, symmetric, ... :) 18:22
[particle] holst: there are multiple implementations of perl 6, so there's no one bytecode 18:23
holst the shape isnt passed-with of course but must be explicit stated
[particle]: aha
but there will be a single one right? isnt "parrot" this?
[particle] no
there will be multiple implementations of perl, just like c 18:24
as long as the implementations pass the official test suite, they're officially perl 6
holst ok, I should ask in any of the implementation channels/ 18:25
[particle] many implementors are here
kp6, smop, rakudo (on parrot), pugs... 18:26
oh, also elf
i'm a parrot core committer, and we have array-of-array, not true multidim arrays 18:29
ruoso even in each implementation... there can be different array implementations coexisting...
[particle] but, we're open to the possibility, just haven't had anyone spec/develop something along those lines
ruoso I suspect that if someone declares my $foo = Array of Array of int; $foo .= new(); might be optimized to a bidimensional int array 18:31
TimToady and then what do you do when they say $foo.push(1,2,3,5)? 18:32
holst [particle]: thats because the high performance computing people hasnt been interested yet :) 18:33
but I think that JITs will be more and more common in this field
TimToady $foo.push([1,2,3,4],[5,6,7,8]) rather
[particle] holst: precisely. are you one? :)
holst [particle]: well, I work with numbers :)
TimToady we've certainly been trying to keep the hpc folks in mind while designing :) 18:34
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ruoso holst, the thing is... nothing stops some module that bind to a high-performance array implementation in C, for instance... 18:37
it is supposed to be much easier to do that in P6 than it is in P5
thanks to the representation polymorphism 18:38
holst yes, but now there is a possibility to raise the bar on what is an "basic type"
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holst having multidimensional arrays as a basic type, with both C and Fortran ordering, would be a great feature as far as I could tell 18:39
TimToady just as Perl 5 allowed you to talk to two databases at once, so too Perl 6 will allow you to specify your ordering both ways if the underlying implementation supports it 18:40
holst the modern versions of BLAS and LAPACK uses a feature called "dummy arrays" and they carry with them their shape information
TimToady it is hoped that the Perl 6 type system is flexible enough to slurp in any existing metadata and run with it 18:42
ingy hi TimToady
TimToady the only real question is whether it'll be too flexible for the optimizers to get a good handle on 18:43
hi ingy
ingy going to Chicago?
TimToady there already
you in .tw?
ingy me too
no, Chicago
TimToady I'm at the hackathon 18:44
holst TimToady: the dummy arrays are a fact since 1990 in the fortran community; so there is quite a bit of research in how to work with them :)
ingy see you tomorrow unless you go to the naked bike ride tonight...
TimToady hadn't planned on it, but you never know...
ingy :D
holst anyways, I must read up on the parrot system
moritz_ holst: #parrot on irc.perl.org will answer parrot specific questions ;) 18:45
TimToady S09 and S12 talk about shaped arrays and the object system
from the language view 18:46
holst the reason I started to investigate this, is that I found a forum post which described a real problem: 18:47
the C# bytecode causes some problem with interoperability betewen fortran subroutines and routines writtein in VB.net or other languages
so you can only pass 1-dimensional arrays (with assumed shape) 18:48
[particle] parrotcode.org/docs/pdds/
sorry, www.parrotcode.org/docs/pdd/
lambdabot Title: Parrot Documentation :: Parrot Design Documents - parrotcode
TimToady well, obviously, if you're dealing with different layouts, someone has to take responsibility to interconvert, and hopefully Perl 6 can be that someone if it has the right metadata 18:49
but the language itself takes pains to keep the shape an abstract concept 18:50
ruoso SMOP solves that by using the "Responder Interface" concept... every object points to the object that knows that object's shape... 18:51
TimToady course, that still doesn't mean that you can just write Fortran in Perl 6. :) 18:53
moritz_ which is considered a feature ;) 18:54
holst moritz_: well, I suspect that a bug will appear soon. the system seems to be broken by design, with such features as: 19:02
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parser_Grammar_Engine
moritz_ holst: what do you mean?
holst I mean, implementing Fortran (or a subsect like F) seems almost doable with that toolchain:) 19:04
moritz_ holst: TimToady said you couldn't simply write Fortran in Perl 6 (ie without major changes), he didn't talk about parrot + PCT
yath
.oO(hmm, i wonder if i could implement RPG in perl6 rules *hides*)
 19:05
(RPG as in Report Program Generator)
moritz_ sure you can implement Fortran with parrot, although it will probably not as fast as native compilers (which are darn fast)
holst some day they might be 19:06
moritz_ some day parallel computing will be *much* more important than micro-optimized code
holst yes, but having the JIT determine loop unrolling instead of the compiler makes more sense 19:07
yath moritz_: the erlang guys keep telling this for ten years :P
moritz_ yath: I know, but *my* laptop now has two cores - it didn't back then ;) 19:08
yath: and 8 cores aren't out of the normal right now
pugs_svnbot r20805 | diakopter++ | [yap6] updated STATUS; now the grammar module is extremely 19:09
r20805 | diakopter++ | terse; thanks to pmurias++ for Perl101-fu
yath moritz_: well, erlang processes are pretty lightweight, but i suspect the overhead of parallelising everything is rather huge.
moritz_ perl 6 tries to be very future proof ;)
yath moritz_: OTOH, if the interpreter or compiler does the job for you, there's no problem for you :P
diakopter shoulda named it yap110
holst the problem is the interconnect between nice programming languges and the hardware 19:10
moritz_ yath: that's where we're trying to go ;)
holst today you have about 2-3 different languages to choose from if you want to do stream computing on a GPU, say
yath why should i care about my hardware when programming?
that's an implementation detail
holst lol
yes
moritz_ more than half of my friends think that they should care about memory management manually 19:11
"because GCs suck"
yath even your goddamn cpu is "interpreting" the opcodes.
holst GCs are probably better than them on memory management
yath (in software, that is)
Tene some gcs
;)
moritz_ IMHO memory management is yet another implmentation detail
yath holst: so is a compiler.
Tene: not counting perl5's? :P 19:12
moritz_ yath: yes. But Java's GC has a bad reputation (because it used to be very bad), and many others are just plain b0rked
holst yath: you reasoning does not make sense about "just an implementation detail"
yath moritz_: well, java actually is very nice in this case, because you are able to *tune* (only per vm, unfortunately) either which gc is used and its parameters
holst if you want programmer productivity you must first give the programmer a GOOD language that is suitable for the job 19:13
yath isn't that what perl6 aims to do? :)
ruoso the problem in Java GC is that it is not deterministic
moritz_ yath: yes, but many java VMs only handle a fixed amount of memory, to be configured at startup
yath: or at least that's how it used to be 19:14
yath: and that's a decision nobody wants to make - rightfully. It's another implementation detail in your way
diakopter yap6: use F; package E { sub a {} ; }
p6eval yap6 r20805 OUTPUT[parsed: [["use"],["v6"],[";"],["use"],["F"],[";"],["package"],["E"],["{"],["sub"],["a"],["{"],["}"],[";"],["}"],["EOI"]]ā¤]
yath moritz_: yes. well, java (the VM) is not perfect, but it's better than the people claim.
TimToady requiring determinism to achieve a correct solution is one part of the problem :)
yath moritz_: (speaking of the hotspot vm, of course. kaffe may do things different) 19:15
holst determinism is just a philosophy
ruoso sometimes, when you're doing something CPU-intensive... the footprint will enlarge considerably, because the GC thread has a lower priority
moritz_ TimToady: well, it's very nice to know that your file is being closed immediately when your file handles goes out of scope ;)
yath ruoso: well, one could give the gc some hints.
ruoso sure... but in the end, I kinda like refcounting... 19:16
yath uh?
moritz_ yath: that's where people start to say "if I have to give hints anyway, I can do it all on my own"
ruoso because it's plain simple and deterministic behaviour
yath doing at least two operations for each reference of a pointer?
TimToady yes, but relying on accidental implementation-based determinism is bad, when you should make explicit what the dependencies are in your code
ruoso hmm...
TimToady if the code doesn't express the required dependencies, it's bogus in some sense 19:17
yath moritz_: uh, well, with this attitude i could also program in assembler.
ruoso the code being inside a for loop seems deterministic code to me
TimToady which "for" are you referring to?
ruoso java for
moritz_ yath: I know. But that's what people say nonetheless :(
yath moritz_: i admit that it's relevant to know how things are implement SOMETIMES (e.g. when dealing with performance or golfing :P), but that should be <1% of production code. 19:18
Tene diakopter: what's that parser thing you keep playing with in here?
ruoso I've already experienced the java GC getting late on a for loop...
yath s/implement/&ed/
ruoso and sometimes you have to manually hint the gc to give it priority
(they even have an API to that)
diakopter Tene: :P sorry; it's my little Perl-6-ish lexer/tokenizer. I'm augmenting it to a parser now.
yath ruoso: hu? how is it called? 19:19
ruoso GarbageCollector or something...
yath hm
ruoso netbeans have a button so you can call it manually
before it extends the footprint
it's rediculous
yath i know of System.gc(), but that just.. well.. it doesn't trigger the gc, it does.. hm
it _maybe_ triggers the gc ;)
ruoso that's the point where I start to kinda like refcounting... 19:21
diakopter Perl101 === Perl5 19:22
moritz_ "you know what is in Perl 101. Everybody knows what is in Perl 101" 19:23
diakopter /join #perl110
my last commit broke SVN::Web: www.parrotvm.org/svn/pugs/revision/?rev=20805 19:25
lambdabot Title: revision: /pugs (via SVN::Web)
moritz_ diakopter: bad boy 19:26
diakopter it's too bad; it would be a fun diff to read
holst thanks for all the info TimToady and moritz_! 19:27
just a final question
will Perl6 beat Duke Nukem Forevers release date? :)
(dont answer that) 19:28
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diakopter when DNF is written in Perl 6, no. 19:28
moritz_ will Duke Nukem Forever be out before christmas? ;-)
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pmurias j 19:32
pugs_svnbot r20806 | diakopter++ | [yap6] backing out my backout of pmurias' un-backout 19:33
diakopter pmurias: tinyurl.com/4pouej 19:34
lambdabot Title: view: /pugs/misc/yap6/src/lib/Perl6in5/Grammar/STD_hand.pm (Rev: HEAD, via SVN:: ...
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pmurias diakopter: there is a syntax error 19:43
diakopter ? works for me...
pugs_svnbot r20807 | diakopter++ | [yap6] committing in case I fixed a syntax error since the last commit 19:45
r20808 | pmurias++ | [yap6] fixed tiny syntax error
diakopter oh, that... thanks 19:46
I was using tester.pm after all.
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pugs_svnbot r20809 | moritz++ | [spec] moved basechar.t to ignoreaccent.t, changed modifier name to reflect 19:47
r20809 | moritz++ | current synopsis, updated smartlink
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pmurias is hit an acronim? 19:48
diakopter hit()? it can mean to "reach/arrive at"
"the train hit the station" 19:49
19:50 coppercore joined
diakopter I guess it's a colloquialism 19:50
pugs_svnbot r20810 | pmurias++ | [yap6] removed useless declarations
coppercore moritz_: do you care for me using your logbot on a channel?
moritz_ coppercore: it's free software, go right ahead ;)
coppercore ok 19:51
:)
moritz_ coppercore: it would be nice if you kept the attribution line in the footer, but add your own contact details
coppercore of course
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pmurias diakopter: what sould live in Perl6in5 Object/*? 19:56
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diakopter pmurias: I was merely dreaming when I added those; they can be deleted if you feel like pughouse cleaning 19:57
pmurias: have you tried the TRACE output yet? :)
export TRACE=2 (don't go much higher than 2 unless you want to fill up your disk/memory) 19:58
pmurias not yet 20:01
do you use a seperate tokeniser? 20:02
pugs_svnbot r20811 | moritz++ | [spec] first simple tests for :sameaccent regex modifier
diakopter pmurias: nope; the whole thing is a tokeniser. it would be impossible to do it in >1 passes... 20:03
moritz_ yap6: say 1;
p6eval yap6 r20811 OUTPUT[parsed: [["use"],["v6"],[";"],["say"],[1],[";"],["EOI"]]ā¤]
moritz_ that's actually not a parse tree, just the tokenizer's output
yap6: 2*(1+3)
p6eval yap6 r20811 OUTPUT[parsed: [["use"],["v6"],[";"],[2],["*"],["("],[1],["+"],[3],[")"],["EOI"]]ā¤]
diakopter pmurias: although, much of it could probably be vastly accelerated by converting many of the rules to have RE hints. 20:04
moritz_: yep I'm adding in the hierarchers/orderers now
pmurias RE hints - that's inelegant
diakopter true
pmurias such things should be generated automaticly 20:05
;)
diakopter oh yeah; I was speculating about that the other day...
since all of these parser generators are reversible (so far)
pmurias food&
diakopter they could conceivably be compiled to something
pmurias is yap6 O(N) 20:10
?
diakopter no; but if mapply() were enabled (and working correctly) theoretically it would be.
pmurias with the packrat thingy? 20:11
diakopter b/c it has direct right recursions it's geometric.
pmurias: yeah the packrat memoizer/pruner
pugs_svnbot r20812 | moritz++ | [spec] some more :sameaccent and :ignoreaccent tests
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diakopter enabling mapply() (in parser()) slows down the parsing of small inputs greatly... I haven't experimented with how it affects the speed of tokenizing larger inputs. 20:12
if there are lots of right-associated nested expressions, it might speed it up, if I understand the theory correctly. 20:13
pmurias geometric is O(n**2) ?
diakopter there isn't any left recursion in the grammar (yet)
so it doesn't help there
yeah, polynomial; sorry 20:14
pmurias O(n*what)? 20:15
pugs_svnbot r20813 | pmurias++ | [yap6] removed Perl6in5::Object
diakopter again, based on my (highly possibly suspect) understanding... I dunno. whatever a vanila/naive recursive descent parser is where there are right recursions
pmurias diakopter: should i removed unused MJD stuff such as Iterator.pm 20:18
?
diakopter sure
leave Stream and Regex 20:19
pmurias too late 20:25
pugs_svnbot r20814 | pmurias++ | removed unused MJD stuff and empty files
pmurias what was in Regex? 20:27
diakopter some more parser combinators
pmurias ones not implemented yet?
diakopter the rudiments of yetyetyet another Perl 5 RE engine
pmurias Stream is lazy lists? 20:28
diakopter it was from hop.perl.plover.com/Examples/ALL/Regex.pm
yeah
pmurias Stream dosn't look very appealing 20:31
diakopter no; I yanked it from being used for the input feeder 20:32
(by Lexer.pm)
converted it to something closer to STD5.pm
and Cursor5.pm
pmurias diakopter: should the source filter generates sub predeclarations? 20:36
diakopter pmurias: that would be really cool; I don't know how to do it
pmurias it will be a hack :( 20:40
svnbot is lazy :( 20:47
pugs_svnbot r20815 | pmurias++ | [yap6] sub predeclaration are generated by the source filter
pmurias diakopter: any other wishes?
diakopter ohhh.... I didn't realize FILTER was called only once... 20:48
figures
pmurias i would suggest porting yap6 to elf but not having a compile part of the edit-test cycle is a refreshing difference 20:50
diakopter you could write rules for the version of pod that's in STD
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pmurias ok 20:52
diakopter but no, I don't have any more wishes; that's a super-clean pure-Perl-5 grammar
well, with a bit of source filtering
pmurias shouldn't we use &lit instead of &hit 20:53
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diakopter pmurias: sounds good to me; if it makes better sense to you 20:53
I assume you mean literal 20:54
pmurias yes
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pmurias diakopter: ++ and -- could be replaced with some other operators 20:57
diakopter pmurias: any ones that have the right precedence and fixation
pmurias: oh wait, it's using a source filter anyway so it doesn't matter! :D 20:58
pmurias although +ws is only one char longer then ++ dosn't require any filtering and is self explanatory 20:59
diakopter ok. and -ws for optional ws? 21:00
pmurias yes
the }{ rule dosn't seem to be used and it's just looking for truble 21:01
* trouble 21:02
diakopter pmurias: I'm using it in tester.pm
rule some { otherrule }{ handler code }; 21:03
unless you have another idea
I wanted something other than },sub {
I didn't like mjd's syntax ( { } >> sub { } 21:05
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pmurias my limited experience with source filtering js is that they only don't cause trouble if you do something extremly blunt 21:06
diakopter: what is the second block meant to do?
got it 21:08
diakopter handle the list of results from the rule match (to put them in the proper order, insert a function name
or a callback
pmurias why can't we embed the handling code inside
diakopter that's an idea 21:09
rule some { hit - handle( handler() ) }
they could be generated similarly to the parsers
actually it would be . handle 21:10
so it doesn't slurp whitespace
is that what you had in mind? 21:11
pugs_svnbot r20816 | Auzon++ | [gsoc_spectest] fixed some .WHAT tests. (Added 1 test)
pmurias diakopter: yes
diakopter ok; I like that idea better... it uses the existing infrastructures
diakopter svn revert 21:12
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pugs_svnbot r20817 | pmurias++ | [yap6] removed "features" from the source filter 21:13
pmurias shower&
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pmurias the '.' hack could be replace with overload::constant 21:32
OTOH it could just be removed 21:34
diakopter removed how? 21:35
pmurias '.' being converted to lit('.')
diakopter oh that
but 'a' is pretty close to Perl 6 style 21:36
pmurias overload::constant could also be used 21:37
but it would also affect "." and q{.} etc.
diakopter: are the rules in STD_hand.pm in any order? 21:48
diakopter no
pmurias what is tester.pm? 21:52
diakopter the much shorter grammar I'm using for experimenting
it's just the basic calculator
I used it to test the longest-match mechanism 21:53
and it does handle nested right associatives ok 21:54
pugs_svnbot r20818 | pmurias++ | [yap6] changed &hit to &lit
diakopter +p6ws will never match anything 21:56
b/c you're asking for whitespace after you've already slurped up all intervening whitespace
(should be ".p6ws") 21:57
pmurias right
re handlers are you working on them? 22:00
pugs_svnbot r20819 | pmurias++ | [yap6] small fix
diakopter pmurias: yep
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pmurias what do you return from them? 22:00
diakopter a modified version of the hashref that was inputted (same as the other parsers) 22:01
pmurias you mean the Match object?
diakopter $in , in all the combinators 22:02
committing
22:02 camgirl29 left
pmurias what editor are you using? 22:02
diakopter at the office, Notepad++, at home/road, TextMate
pugs_svnbot r20820 | diakopter++ | [yap6] rudimentary (proof-of-concept) for post parse handlers 22:03
diakopter why; are the line endings or encoding broken or something?
um; I thought I reverted those earlier changes.... fixing 22:04
pmurias diakopter: no just curious
diakopter they're both pretty powerful - plenty for me at least 22:05
pmurias thought we could try using gobby sometime if you are not using a vi based editor
diakopter nobody commented on my Perl5=Perl101;Perl6=Perl110 joke... ;) 22:08
pmurias as only i would be inconvinienced at using non-vi key bindings
pugs_svnbot r20821 | diakopter++ | [yap6] cleanup of mis-reversions
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pmurias it should be possible to create match objects automaticly 22:10
diakopter how does one force list context.. 22:11
I know about scalar()
Eevee list? 22:12
as in, list()
or do you mean p5
diakopter sorry yes Perl 5
pmurias (something,)
diakopter :D
thx
Eevee yeah that 22:13
pugs_svnbot r20822 | diakopter++ | [yap6] a proof of concept that actually works 22:14
diakopter I'm thinking: both() should put its results on the same tier; one() should put it in a new tier 22:15
one's the horizontal dimension; the other is the vertical
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pmurias diakopter: tier? 22:18
diakopter in the ast
or really, in the interpretation plan
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pmurias diakopter: it's speced how much objects should look like 22:20
diakopter ?
whereat
S00 22:21
pmurias S05
Return Values from matches 22:22
diakopter oh... I hadn't realized that was similar to what I was doing 22:23
hm
pmurias good night 22:25
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diakopter TimToady: in S05 ... s/pattern/{ eval doit() }/ shouldn't that be { try...? I misunderstand. 22:30
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diakopter or does that eval the string resulting from doit() ? 22:37
TimToady the latter 22:41
Limbic_Region hopes to see many of you at YAPC in the next few days
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diakopter TimToady: S05:350 - sentence lacks a word I think 22:51
specifically, a verb 22:53
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diakopter for yap6, as{} will signify "interpret/understand/model as/by"... and to{} will signify "evaluate/destination/outcome". 23:38
that way, all the declarations/procedures relating to a single atom/variable are together. 23:40
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