pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, smop: etc.) || We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by TimToady on 25 January 2008.
TimToady @tell pmurias a mutable object must specify its WHICH identity in terms of an immutable value type; immutable value types are their own identity and are required to support consistent canonicalization for eqv etc.; and canonicalization is hashable without knowledge of type, so no explicit .hash required 03:02
lambdabot Consider it noted.
TimToady @tell pmurias, IOW, hashes are always keyed on canonicalized .WHICH, though the particular form of canonicalization may depend on the hash key's declared type 03:10
lambdabot Consider it noted.
rindolf Hi all. 07:44
rakudo_svn r29330 | bernhard++ | [Rakudo] Add or update some Copyright or SVN-Id lines 09:42
pmurias ruoso: hi 11:47
lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
ruoso hi pmurias
pmurias should i just svn remove the old sm0p implementation when i move in the new one? 11:50
ruoso yeah... I think that's ok
pmurias i wonder if i haven't spent enought time on sm0p, that i could have written a basic perl6->slime backend ;) 11:51
ruoso pmurias, and you could even add the brew as a makefile target, so it would be called automatically when the sm0p.pm source changes 11:52
pmurias, you think you can write a simple "variable" support that would generate all the nodes for the equivalent calls? 11:53
like...
$a = regular_sm0p_node; 11:54
$a.foo();
$something.method($a)
pmurias yes, but i think i shouldn't
ruoso hmm... you're probably right 11:55
pmurias growing sm0p into perl6 doesn't seem a good idea
i think i'll finish labels, and likely add nested frames and leave it at that 11:58
but we can start work on s1p soon ;) 12:01
pugs_svn r21309 | fglock++ | minor fix in test output 12:11
pugs_svn r21310 | pmurias++ | [smop] sm0p has labels now (see test file), forward labels are not supported yet, as they would require hackery 12:25
pmurias ruoso: you can now use labels ;) 12:30
pmurias ruoso: would a move_capturize_with_responder be a good idea? 12:55
pmurias ruoso: i can delete old_src? 13:10
rindolf Hi all. 13:40
Can anyone edit www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?comics# ?
lambdabot Title: Comics / Perl 5 Wiki
rindolf Oh wait! NoScript.
pmurias rindolf: you are banned from the wiki too? ;) 13:50
rindolf pmurias: no, I'm not. 13:51
pmurias: just had the NoScript extension on.
pmurias: and without JavaScript it didn't work at all.
I had to whitelist perlfoundation.org
pmurias rindolf: why do you have NoScript? 14:05
rindolf pmurias: well, I installed it because a few hours after every reboot, I cannot access Google properly. 14:07
pmurias: and so the Google Ads stall my homepage and other sites.
pmurias strange 14:09
rhett hey, what's new in perl 6? 16:57
pmurias rhett: compared to perl 5? 17:00
rhett oh, sorry, I mean, what's new in the perl 6 world?
is rakudo going to be fast? 17:01
pmurias it should (for a vm)
rhett are people working on a fast c implementation of perl 6? 17:02
pbuetow the vm of perl 6 is in c
rhett so, is rakudo the last thing that needs to be done? 17:03
pbuetow i guess they will improve the vm and perl 6 itself in parallel
rhett I'm confused, I guess I just want to know when perl 6 can start to replace perl 5
pbuetow it ll be at christmas :)
(we dont know which christmas) 17:04
rhett well, I mean what needs to be done?
like, if I just wrote a c version of pugs, would that work?;
pbuetow you can read the news at rakudo.org and follow the development or help
pmurias rhett: parrot is not finished yet 17:05
pbuetow hmm, this will be yet another implementation, besides of pugs and rakudo and probably some more
pmurias there's elf, and the undeveloped kp6 17:06
spinclad smop is a c substrate for an implementation 17:07
pugs_svn r21311 | fglock++ | [v6.pm] fixed Makefile.PL
pmurias smop will be likely mostly p6 17:08
spinclad rhett: perl 6 has already started to replace perl 5: kp6 and rakudo use perl 6 for their implementation
pmurias rhett: perl6 will replace perl5 sooner if you help, you know ;) 17:10
rhett yeah, i'm trying to see where I could fit in
pmurias rhett: what are you happy coding in?
rhett whatever
spinclad haskell?
pmurias common lisp? ;) 17:11
rhett sure, whatever
spinclad oo, we have a vict^Wvolunteer! pugs needs a revival... 17:12
pmurias rhett: the things i'm involved are elf and smop, you could help with them
spinclad elf, STD, kp6, ...
in particular building a bridge between elf and smop 17:13
pmurias or a bridge between elf and STD
it lives under misc/pixie 17:14
rhett reads about what the heck elf and smop are
davidm123 the download link on www.pugscode.org/ is broken (as is the try pugs now link)
lambdabot Title: Pugs - pugscode
pmurias rhett: what are you reading? 17:15
rhett last time I checked in, people said, well, perl 6 is done as pugs in haskell, it's just slow. So, I assumed that all that needs to be done is a fast implementation in c
www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop
lambdabot Title: SMOP / Perl 6
spinclad yes, that's good for smop 17:17
pmurias i should update the sm0p page 17:19
rhett i guess I don't understand. If there are specs for the perl 6 language, why it doesn't just get coded up in c
pmurias the parsing part is hard to do in c
rhett and just call it perl6, instead of smop/elf/hoogieboogie
pmurias calling your implementation perl6 is claiming it's more offical than the others 17:20
rhett i don't see a problem with that, as long as it's free 17:21
pmurias two different implementation can't be both called perl6
rhett oh, so because larry wrote perl5, his can be officially perl5, but there can't be an official perl6, since the community writes it? 17:22
and no one is better than anyone else?
TimToady nobody else was crazy enough to reimplement perl5 17:23
we expect a lot of people to be that crazy about perl6 :)
pmurias pypy and jython are called pypy and jython not python an python 17:24
pugs_svn r21312 | fglock++ | [v6.pm] fixed Test.pm compilation 17:26
pmurias rhett: it's mostly an issue of there being multiple incomplete and vastly different perl6 implemenations, and nobody wan't to be unkind enough to claim the name 17:27
rhett yeah, it would be nice if the community could agree on something, I guess
pmurias the compiler to be agreed upon would need to be powerfull enough to fit everyones needs 17:29
TimToady the current situation *is* what the community agreed on :) 17:30
pmurias walk&
pugs_svn r21313 | fglock++ | updated MANIFEST 17:39
spinclad community policy this time around is that Perl 6 is the spec and perl6 is any implementation that implements it 17:51
( a corollary of TIMTOWTDI, i venture ) 17:55
speckbot r14562 | larry++ | [S04] small clarification to whether named subs are really closures
pugs_svn r21314 | pmurias++ | [smop] deleted the old sm0p compiler 19:16
pmurias @tell ruoso why have you put #\n in p6opaque.c? 19:18
lambdabot Consider it noted.
pmurias @teel ruoso p6opaque.h is missing (svn add it) 19:21
lambdabot Consider it noted.
pmurias does @teel work too? 19:22
pugs_svn r21315 | pmurias++ | [smop] two warnings about unkown methods 19:24
spinclad does @teal send a color? 19:25
pugs_svn r21316 | pmurias++ | [smop] reverted 21307 and 21306 to make smop compile again :( 19:28
r21316 | pmurias++ | hopefull the can be reapplied soon :)
pugs_svn r21317 | pmurias++ | [sm0p] added a general sm0p test 20:09
pmurias @tell ruoso p6opaque.h is missing
lambdabot Consider it noted.
pmurias @tell ruoso: could you add a test for copy to 17_sm0p.sm0p please i can't get it to work somehow 20:11
lambdabot Consider it noted.
allbery_b I don't think that colon will do what you hope 20:38
but since the target's here... 20:39
<pmurias> @tell ruoso: could you add a test for copy to 17_sm0p.sm0p please i can't get it to work somehow
ruoso Hi all!
lambdabot ruoso: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
ruoso pmurias, sorry about that... I'm adding p6opaque.h now 20:40
pmurias ruoso: rehi 20:41
pugs_svn r21318 | ruoso++ | [smop] ruoso-- forgot to add p6opaque.h
ruoso pmurias, I didn't mean to commit the additional '#' in the sm0p blocks..
it was just me checking if I was not trying to use the results of a node twice
pmurias ruoso: would it be good idea to have a $SMOP__SLIME__CurrentFrame.call(identifier,SMOP__SLIME__Capturize.new(...)) ? 20:43
ruoso: should i remerge 21307 and 21306 now? 20:44
ruoso pmurias, please... 20:45
pmurias i get errors in p6opaque 20:48
16 and 14, is it expected?
pmurias ruoso: add p6opaque_methods.sm0p too, please 20:50
ruoso ruoso--
pugs_svn r21319 | ruoso++ | [smop] ruoso-- forgot to add p6opaque_methods.sm0p 20:51
pmurias use svn status ;)
ruoso pmurias, I need to define a good .svn_ignore
pugs_svn r21320 | pmurias++ | reverted the reversion 20:52
pmurias ruoso: do you think $SMOP__SLIME__CurrentFrame.call would be a good idea? 20:54
ruoso pmurias, yes... I do... you just need to add the responder in that call 20:55
you need the responder, the identifier and the capture
pmurias i meant to take the responder from captures invocant 20:56
ruoso pmurias, hmm.. that can be ok... 20:56
pmurias as it's annoying to always have to copy the invocant to extract the responder from it 20:57
ruoso yeah... I think it's ok... 20:58
and if someone needs to call on other responder with that invocant, they can use the extended version sm0p has now
pmurias calling an object with a different responder violates the encapsulation barrier a bit 21:00
ruoso maybe... I'm not sure about it... 21:01
in fact I tend to ignore that question, because the capture is not really visible in the low-level invocation..
although for the higher level, it is indeed very tight up
pmurias capture is not really visible, i'm confused 21:02
ruoso SMOP_DISPATCH doesn't look at the capture 21:03
but that's maybe irrelevant
pmurias guess so 21:04
* i guess so 21:05
ruoso: it would be cool for objects to be able to have multiple responder interfaces
so that for example python code would see a different api for the object than p6 code 21:06
ruoso pmurias, the problem is that the object won't be binary compatible with both runtimes at the same time anyway
pmurias meant python code running on smop 21:07
it wouldn't require a secondary responder interface, just a secondary MESSAGE would be enough 21:09
or even better
it's possible to call methods on the responder interface?
i'll sleep now, but would be grateful if you add the $SMOP__SLIME__CurrentFrame.copy test when you have some time 21:12
ruoso pmurias, copy test?
pmurias, test/16 is failing sm0p parse here
pmurias, oh... sorry... I didn't update misc/sm0p 21:13
pmurias just a version of the test in 17 with copied values would be enough 21:14
s/would/should/
sleep for real&
pugs_svn r21321 | ruoso++ | [smop] solves memory leak in test/17. 21:22
ruoso @tell pmurias, I really didn't understand what you mean... test/17 had a copy call commented out, I just uncommented it and it worked... what do you think that should be tested? 21:23
lambdabot Consider it noted.

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