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pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, elf: etc.) (or perl6: for all) | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ Set by Tene on 29 July 2008. |
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| TimToady | ruoso: "These variables are compile-time aliases to $+! and $+/" | 00:31 | |
| no, they can't be | |||
| ruoso | what's the difference? | ||
| TimToady | $+ is short fot $CALLER:: and excludes the one in the current scope | 00:32 | |
| $+! can only refer to one of your caller's $! variables | |||
| and since $! is defined in every scope, it's always the first caller | |||
| ruoso | but when you set $! it propagates to the caller, | 00:33 | |
| TimToady | no | ||
| ruoso missed something... | |||
| TimToady | more likely, fail() sets CALLER::CALLER::<$!> | ||
| if you want to set your caller's $! directly, you must set $+! | 00:34 | ||
| ruoso | hm... I think I got it... | ||
| TimToady | the whole point of giving each scope it's own copy of these variables is to keep them straight; there can be no aliasing | ||
| many of P5's problems stem from too many routines trying to deal with global $_ and $! | 00:35 | ||
| anyway, context vars never use the + in their own scope, but just the bare variable | 00:37 | ||
| ruoso | and functions that read by line lookup $+/ to see the contextual setting for that variable | ||
| TimToady | which is especially important since the rw-ness differs from $foo and $+foo | ||
| araujo greets TimToady | |||
| TimToady | ruoso: I don't follow that last idea | 00:40 | |
| TimToady greets araujo right back | 00:41 | ||
| araujo | :-] | ||
| ruoso confusing $/ meaning... | 00:42 | ||
| but anyway... | |||
| a regex call sets $+/ which is then available in the caller... | |||
| the same way that happens with $! | 00:44 | ||
| TimToady | yes | ||
| bbl & # dinner | 00:49 | ||
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| ruoso | TimToady, do every block define $! and $/? or are just Routines that define them? | 00:59 | |
| pugs: { my $a = "foo"; { $a ~~ /o/ }; say $/ }; | 01:01 | ||
| p6eval | pugs: OUTPUT[Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {ā¤ unshift @INC, '/home/evalenv/pugs/perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/lib';ā¤ unshift @INC, '/home/evalenv/pugs/third-party/Parse-Yapp/lib';ā¤ eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;ā¤}ā¤'Pugs::Runti... | ||
| ruoso | rakudo: { my $a = "foo"; { $a ~~ /o/ }; say $/ }; | 01:03 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in get_string()ā¤current instr.: 'print' pc 12259 (src/gen_builtins.pir:7802)ā¤] | ||
| ruoso | rakudo: { my $a = "foo"; { $a ~~ /o/; say $/ }; }; | ||
| audreyt | pugs: { my $a = "foo"; { $a ~~ m:P5/o/ }; say $/ } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[oā¤] | 01:04 | |
| pugs: OUTPUT[oā¤] | |||
| ruoso | so it seems that $/ is defined by routines and not by every code | ||
| so CALLER is not simply each code... but each routine | |||
| audreyt | sub f { if 1 { g() } } | 01:06 | |
| for &g, the caller is f, not the if block, afaik. | |||
| ruoso | that actually makes things much more complicated | 01:07 | |
| audreyt | what you have in mind is context() | ||
| see S06:2113, S06:1958 | 01:08 | ||
| caller() is a filtered context, so to speak. | |||
| it discard the non-routine parts | |||
| does that make things easier? | 01:09 | ||
| ruoso | yeah... it does... | ||
| but maybe we should store the enclosing routine for each context | 01:10 | ||
| audreyt | *nod* | ||
| bbiab | |||
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| whereiskurt | ?eval say "What does TimToady eat for dinner? :-)" | 03:46 | |
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| gaal | ruoso: you were looking at Signature objects? Perl6::Signature on cpan | 05:18 | |
| lambdabot | gaal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. | ||
| gaal | ported from pugs | ||
| more or less | |||
| and nothingmuch++ and clkao++ have insane glue to make those actually available as sub declarations in perl5 | 05:19 | ||
| hmmm though apparently that's not on cpan yet? | 05:20 | ||
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| audreyt | it's code2.0beta.co.uk/moose/svn/Perl6-S...ure/trunk/ | 06:42 | |
| lambdabot | Title: Revision 5096: /Perl6-Signature/trunk | ||
|
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| nothingmuch | gaal: in moose + jifty repos I think | 07:14 | |
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| pugs_svn | r21789 | lwall++ | [STD vs t] more Mutually Assured Construction | 08:10 | |
| audreyt | *lol* | 08:11 | |
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| clkao | gaal: perl6::declare | 08:36 | |
| i was expecting more craziness for yapceu but nothingmuch is bailing out | 08:37 | ||
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| masak | hm, is there an 'is inline' trait on subs? | 08:45 | |
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| audreyt | Yes, S06:1681 | 08:57 | |
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| masak | audreyt: thanks | 09:00 | |
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| pugs_svn | r21790 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Lexer: "\d123" must now be written as "\c123" according to S02 v133. | 09:10 | |
| dduncan | on that note, what word does the 'c' refer to? | 09:13 | |
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| dduncan | eg, how is a c for base-10 or decimal self-documenting? | 09:14 | |
| or is it deCimal? | |||
| ludan | hi | ||
| Tene | hi ludan | 09:15 | |
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| Patterner | c)haracter? | 09:20 | |
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| masak | feels like a category error next to \b, \x and \o, in that case | 09:21 | |
| gaal | Moose! | 09:35 | |
| speckbot | r14571 | audreyt++ | * S02: A few more C<...> an C<<...>> blocks, Contributed by John M. Dlugosz++. | 09:39 | |
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| speckbot | r14572 | audreyt++ | * Typo spotted by John M. Dlugosz++: | 09:44 | |
| r14572 | audreyt++ | | |||
| r14572 | audreyt++ | method close is export () { ... } # Wrong | |||
| r14572 | audreyt++ | method close () is export { ... } # Right | |||
| audreyt | it means we've moved from decimal to centimal ;) | 09:53 | |
| masak | 100t! | 09:55 | |
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| ruoso work & | 10:07 | ||
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| gaal | For any base, you're always at base 10. Except unary. | 10:44 | |
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| audreyt_ | gaal++ # That's true even for quater-imaginary bases | 10:57 | |
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| avar | audreyt++ # Yay, she's back! | 11:54 | |
| lambdabot | avar: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. | ||
| avar | lambdabot: @messages | ||
| lambdabot | audreyt said 22h 17m 45s ago: community.haskell.org/~audreyt/re-e....05.tar.gz # should build everywhere | ||
| avar | Yeah I saw that, the OBJECT= stuff works but I'm a bit afraid of modifying the gettext stuff | ||
| still, I guess it's needed, win32 doesn't have libint.h or whatever that gnu stuff was | |||
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| gaal | So... still no luck with the smoke. Once a single test hits the timeout, subsequent ones all time out. | 12:03 | |
| I've added a ghetto "killall pugs" when the test doesn't terminate on time (getting the pid of the real bad pugs is tricky, as it's created deep in the harness) | 12:04 | ||
| anyone know a portable way to get all my child pids + their $*PROGRAM_NAMEs? | 12:05 | ||
| ruoso | gaal, I'm pretty sure there isn't one | 12:07 | |
| except for libraries that abstract different implementations | 12:08 | ||
| gaal looks at the plumbing | 12:09 | ||
| beh, we'd need a patch to Straps.pm:651 to record the pid | 12:14 | ||
| straps uses global filehandles, joy :/ | 12:15 | ||
| Maybe it's time for T::T::Model to use TAP::Parser... let's see if that's any better. | 12:16 | ||
| gaal growls. Straps calls itself obsolete and directs us to TAP::Parser,, but TAP::Parser doesn't come with something that actually runs a test. | 12:18 | ||
| avar | gaal: how do you make the kids? fork? | 12:20 | |
| gaal | open | | ||
| avar | the only portable way is making a record when you make the kids | ||
| ew | |||
| gaal | which returns a pid, iirc | ||
| open | is actually pretty portable. | |||
|
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| gbacon | in the Pugs build, are the profiling libraries strictly necessary? | 13:35 | |
| INSTALL talks about a prof make target, but is that not required? | 13:36 | ||
| gaal | I doubt they're required. | 13:37 | |
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| gaal | But I recommend trying :) | 13:38 | |
| audreyt | "make prof" should now do a ./Setup configure -p --user | 13:39 | |
| and then ./Setup build | |||
| feel free to hack it in. :) | |||
| gbacon: do you have a commit bit? | |||
| masak | how do I get the name of the Role that results from a <=> or a cmp? | 13:43 | |
| perl6: say (3 <=> 5).WHAT | 13:44 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[Orderā¤] | ||
| ..elf 21790, pugs: OUTPUT[Intā¤] | |||
| masak | rakudo gives Order, but I'd like to get "Increasing" somehow | ||
| ah, .perl | 13:47 | ||
| perl6: say (3 <=> 5).perl | |||
| gbacon | audreyt: yes! | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[Order::Increaseā¤] | ||
| ..elf 21790, pugs: OUTPUT[-1ā¤] | |||
| gbacon | audreyt: right, but running perl Makefile.PL runs cabal install -p | 13:48 | |
| audreyt | yes, "just in case" | 13:49 | |
| a better way would be when you "make prof" | |||
| go back and detect and re-build the libraries taht needs to be profiled | |||
| try hacking Makefile.PL line 167ish and add a "pugs-prof" target? | |||
| and you can take off the default -p in Makefile.PL | |||
| makes sense? | |||
| gbacon nods | 13:50 | ||
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| gbacon | audreyt: I dug through the svn logs, but I'm still very curious as to how you fixed the "invalid grammar category" error that we were getting when trying to build the prelude | 13:52 | |
| pasteling | "rhr" at 65.94.11.172 pasted "pugs' Makefile.PL fails" (44 lines, 2.3K) at sial.org/pbot/31806 | 13:53 | |
| rhr | is anyone else getting this error? | ||
| gbacon | rhr: you might try installing cabal-install by hand | 13:59 | |
| rhr | I tried that, it doesn't help :( | 14:00 | |
|
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| audreyt | rhr: oy. | 14:07 | |
| if you can, rm -rf ~/.cabal and ~/.ghc and perl Makefile.PL again | |||
| most likely though, "ghc-pkg unregister --user zlib" would be sufficient. | |||
| (or "ghc-pkg unregister zlib") | 14:08 | ||
| sorry for being mostly away... preparing for a job interview coming up in 1.5 hours | 14:09 | ||
| rhr | audreyt: I have a working pugs from a few days ago, so no hurry :) | 14:12 | |
| audreyt | okies :) | ||
| rhr | audreyt: the rm method worked, thanks. have a good interview! | 14:19 | |
| audreyt | thanks! | ||
|
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| gnuvince | @seen audreyt | 15:40 | |
| lambdabot | audreyt is in #xmonad, #ghc, #haskell and #perl6. I last heard audreyt speak 1h 21m 8s ago. | ||
| audreyt | yes? | 15:47 | |
| gbacon | audreyt: good interview? | ||
| [particle]1 | i'm expecting her to reply, "actually, i'm in it now :)" | 15:48 | |
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| audreyt | actually I'm in it now. | 15:49 | |
| [particle] | :P | ||
| gnuvince | audreyt: nothing, I was just very happy to see you were back when I read that blog post of yours last week. | 15:50 | |
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| pmurias | ruoso: hi | 17:43 | |
| lambdabot | pmurias: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. | ||
| ruoso | hi pmurias | ||
| pmurias | ruoso: how long does the SMOP talk take you? | 17:44 | |
| ruoso | it took me a little more than half an hour | ||
| gbacon | audreyt: would you prefer to keep profiling enabled in the default pugs build? | 17:47 | |
| audreyt | gbacon: no, I don't think so | ||
| esp. on some platform prof and thread are mut. excl. | 17:48 | ||
| and I'd much rather thread than prof | |||
| pmurias | ruoso: did anyone ask about polymorphic eval? ;) | 17:49 | |
| ruoso | pmurias, not really.. .but the audience was not as qualified as I would expect in yapc::eu | 17:50 | |
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| pmurias | i'll read a bit about Glib or choose a different example | 17:53 | |
| audreyt | yay I got the job. :) see you tomorrow *wave* | 17:54 | |
| pmurias | *wave* | ||
| [particle]1 | congrats audreyt | 18:06 | |
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| pugs_svn | r21791 | gbacon++ | Add prof make target for profiling build. | 18:09 | |
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| pmurias | ruoso: got a documentation pointer to how glib object look like? | 18:29 | |
| ruoso | in terms of data strucutre? | 18:30 | |
| no, I don't... | |||
| pmurias | i'll edit it out then | ||
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| pmurias | the SMOP talk will be my first talk, so any advice is appreciated ;) | 18:32 | |
| ruoso | ;) | 18:37 | |
| pmurias | getting cat food& | ||
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| pugs_svn | r21792 | lwall++ | [STD] let EXPR parse term after infix with a rule specified by the infix op | 19:14 | |
| r21792 | lwall++ | (considered other kludges but this preserves 1-pass parsing) | |||
| r21792 | lwall++ | switch , parsing to using this mechanism plus <nulltermish> | |||
| r21792 | lwall++ | fix .= parsing by forcing <dottyop> as next term | |||
| r21792 | lwall++ | [pre_post.t] can't leave the space out between "is Foo" and the class block | |||
| r21792 | lwall++ | or it is interpreted as an arg to the Foo pseudo-adverb | |||
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| pmurias | mncharity: hi | 19:21 | |
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| mncharity | hi pmurias | 19:26 | |
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| pmurias | mncharity: i haven't seperated EmitSM0P yet, as it will be obsoleted soon | 19:32 | |
| mncharity puzzled ("seperated EmitSM0P"?), but *nod* | 19:33 | ||
| I'm exploring getting STD's tryfile to accept the elf sources. | 19:34 | ||
| pmurias | separated, sorry | 19:35 | |
| mncharity: that should force removing =~ | 19:38 | ||
| mncharity | pmurias: wasn't the spelling... I just don't know, or have forgotten, what EmitSMOP is being separated from, and with what objective. | ||
| pmurias | from elfX into elfish/smop | 19:39 | |
| mncharity | re =~ ... do you know if STD will tolerate them if it sees an explicit =~ definition? | ||
| pmurias | so it could be integrated into elf | ||
| mncharity: =~ is and explicit error | |||
| s/and/an | 19:40 | ||
| mncharity | :( ah well. maybe =~~ ... | 19:41 | |
| pmurias | you now my attitude towards =~ | 19:42 | |
| * know | |||
| ruoso | pmurias, when you finish the slides you can add a second link to them in the wiki | ||
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| pmurias | ruoso: ok | 19:45 | |
| ruoso: i'm currently thinking what to change | 19:46 | ||
| mncharity | pmurias: re know, yes :) will go away as part of merging in regex/p engine. | 19:47 | |
| ruoso | pmurias, you can always throw that slides away if you like to... ;) | ||
| pmurias | i | 19:48 | |
| 'm actually hoping to finish m0ld before YAPC::EU | |||
| Mold too | 19:49 | ||
| ruoso | that would be very cool | 19:50 | |
| pmurias, btw... have you seen the wiki page on lexical scopes? | |||
| TimToady | mncharity: STD does not currently do anything with an infix:<foo> definition because pmurias got distracted :) | 19:52 | |
| mind you, m0ld is a fine thing to be distracted by... | 19:53 | ||
| mncharity | lol | 19:56 | |
| TimToady | but STD is up to parsing 98.44% of t/, and several of the remaining errors have to do with not mutating the grammar on operator defs | ||
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| TimToady | nap & # stayed up too late hacking last night... | 20:00 | |
| mncharity | re 98.44%, !!! There's a Perl 6 project milestone of note. | 20:03 | |
| TimToady | .oO(still one percentile short of Ivory Soap) # rethunk |
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| pmurias | it might be that we need more cunning tests | 20:05 | |
| mncharity | more cunning tests++ | 20:07 | |
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| mncharity | hmm, might call it "accepting" instead of "parsing"? I always find it very hard to tell if parses are correct until they are used, running, and passing tests. | 20:09 | |
| re "Ivory Soap", their line is n % "pure". Where "pure" is without meaning. So you could feel free to declare STD's purity to be 99.99999%. | 20:11 | ||
| pmurias | my limited experience with pixie is that the resulting AST is bug-riden, but it's hardly resonable to expect untested things to be correct | ||
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| mncharity | "it's hardly resonable to expect untested things to be correct", ooooo, I like that quote. Nice alternative to "if it hasn't been tested, it doesn't work". | 20:14 | |
| ah, pixie! that's what I was looking for... | 20:16 | ||
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| pmurias | mncharity: pixie is currently broken as STD remove a {*} per rule | 20:37 | |
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| mncharity | pmurias: np. i'm going to try a STD_red like approach - getting the Match tree and groveling over it, rather than using make(). | 20:50 | |
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| gaal | mncharity: moose! | 21:00 | |
| pugs_svn | r21793 | pmurias++ | [m0ld] calls with positionals only are translated to bytecode | 21:02 | |
| pmurias | mncharity: using make is better as you might want to start modifing the grammar at some point from the actions | ||
| otoh you should be able to convert from one approach to the other easily | 21:07 | ||
| mncharity | gaal: moose :) | 21:09 | |
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| mncharity | pmurias: *nod*. at least for now, with a semi-static grammar, the advantage of greater debuggability outweighs future flexibility. | 21:16 | |
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| pugs_svn | r21794 | pmurias++ | [m0ld] named arguments | 21:44 | |
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| gbacon | transparency++ | 21:51 | |
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| mncharity | pmurias: before I start exploring, any thoughts on what "Unable to parse class definition at ../../misc/elf/elf_g_src/EmitSimpleP5.pm line 946: ------> expecting nibbler (alt 02)" means? 946 is end of file. | 22:03 | |
| oh, and the =~ have all gone away. ;) | 22:04 | ||
| (haven't measured the performance hit yet :/ ) | |||
| TimToady | probably a runaway string | 22:09 | |
| mncharity | yep. unescaped { in "". | 22:10 | |
| dduncan | question: regarding base-10/decimal numeric literals, what word does the 'c' prefix stand for? is it deCimal or something else? | ||
| TimToady | admittedly could use a better message :) | ||
| your question was answered last night | 22:11 | ||
| but you vamoosed too soon :) | |||
| dduncan | I'll check the logs ... | ||
| TimToady | it's 'c' as in 'characgter' | ||
| we can't use \d because that already means something else in regex | |||
| and the idea is that you should be concentrating on producing the character, not on its radix | 22:12 | ||
| dduncan | okay | ||
| TimToady | on top of that, nobody should be using decimal for that anyway except in a few cases | ||
| but almost all the decimal characters people know are already better encoded some other way | 22:13 | ||
| \c9 == \t for instance | |||
| and unicode has pretty much settled on hex | |||
| dduncan | now looking at the log, I saw the answer, and also the comment: feels like a category error next to \b, \x and \o, in that case | 22:14 | |
| TimToady | anyway, was just looking for a way to sneak in the decimal notation, and it turned out that current \c usage had holes in the right place | ||
| sure, but those are exceptional in not being base 10, and we have ten fingers | |||
| it just points out that you can't actually create the Perfect Language | 22:15 | ||
| dduncan | indeed | ||
| pmurias | gbacon: what did the transparency++ comment refer too? | ||
| dduncan | but one can try | 22:16 | |
| TimToady | (as in the Search for the Perfect Language, Umberto Eco) | ||
| even trying has its dangers, if you don't understand the tradeoffs | |||
| gbacon | pmurias: mncharity's "at least for now, with a semi-static grammar, the advantage of greater debuggability outweighs future flexibility." | ||
| TimToady | and one of them in this case is the current cultural meaning of \d, which I don't wish to break | ||
| dduncan | generally you just want to make the language good for the task its intended for | 22:17 | |
| I'm not arguing for anything different than what you did | |||
| TimToady | and in that larger scheme of things, I doubt people will be using \c that often | ||
| and when they do, it'll more often be \c[LINE FEED] | 22:18 | ||
| or \cG | |||
| and every now and then \c[13,10] | |||
| dduncan | as for now, I'm trying to use Moose for the first time, and am learning how it is, and isn't like Perl 6 or Perl 5 | ||
| pugs_svn | r21795 | pmurias++ | [smop] hand compiled the m0ld example from the wiki and added as test | 22:19 | |
| TimToady | gotta commute, bbiab & | ||
| pmurias | gotta sleep, bbiab& ;) | ||
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| pugs_svn | r21796 | putter++ | [elf_g] STD's src/perl6/tryfile r21792 now accepts the elf sources (no parse errors are reported). | 23:19 | |
| r21796 | putter++ | One acceptable regression - t/xx-uncategorized/deref_doesnt.t now fails differently. | |||
| mncharity | Next steps are () Get a Match tree dump from STD (in the same format as STD_red_run --format=p5a). STD_blue? () New IRx1_FromAST2. <> Elf bootstraps on STD_blue. Then... elf accepting, running, STD. Yielding bootstrapped front-end. | 23:28 | |
| g'night all & | |||
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