pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, elf: etc.) (or perl6: for all) | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by Tene on 29 July 2008.
wayland_ Yeah, I tried preferences, but I think you have to have something somewhere if you actually want to override the document's fonts :) 00:02
(Seamonkey on Linux)
But I found a better way
Google image search on "korean" :)
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masak yeah, was going to suggest that. 00:02
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wayland_ Reminds me of Tolkien's Elvish :) 00:02
masak really? :) 00:03
wayland_ Korean
Because the shapes for similar sounds are similar to each other 00:04
masak aye.
wayland_ Although that violates George Bernard Shaw's principles for alphabet design :)
masak true. though I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who writes in Shavian. 00:05
wayland_ :)
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wayland_ I wonder if these sorts of things happen on non-Perl channels :) 00:06
masak probably. 00:07
wayland_ Mongolian is kinda cool :)
masak ...but I find that #perl6 has some of the most interesting and knowledgeable people
wayland_: aye, it is.
you gotta hand it to anyone who still does it vertically.
wayland_ well, yes, of course! We're here, aren't we? :) 00:08
masak no comment :)
wayland_ s/:)/:-p/
(ie. I'm being silly :) ) 00:09
masak aye.
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masak yawns 00:09
time to hit the sack, methinks.
wayland_: been nice talking writing systems with ya. 00:10
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wayland_ bye :) 00:11
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azawawi rakudo: say "good morning"; 06:41
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[good morning␤]
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masak reading STD_syntax_highlight. what does "redspans traversal" mean? 09:25
@tell azawawi For some reason, ETOOMUCHTIME aborts on the first test file for me. Any idea why? nopaste.snit.ch/14441 09:31
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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masak suddenly understands that the .contains method ins't quite identical to :exists after all 09:37
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meppl good morning 10:20
masak y0 10:27
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DarkAkorn pokes moritz_ 11:03
don't suppose anyone else in here knows a lot about the Irc log bot and feels like helping a newb? 11:04
masak DarkAkorn: I'd say I have slightly-above-newb knowledge of the IRC log bot. 11:08
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masak DarkAkorn: moritz_ is usually offline during the weekends, either explicitly or implicitly 11:09
jauaor hello
DarkAkorn ah
masak jauaor: hi
jauaor Hi masak
masak :)
DarkAkorn well, dependancies are installed, files uploaded, and .conf files I'm pretty sure edited correctly
masak jauaor: happy November!
DarkAkorn and... well, what from there?
this is my first time manually installing anything
jauaor Happy November to you too masak !!!
masak DarkAkorn: you're trying to get it running?
jauaor: :D
DarkAkorn yes 11:10
jauaor thinks it's a good moment to start with perl6
masak jauaor: you bet!
DarkAkorn: you haven't had any errors or anything?
jauaor masak: I got all the weekend free!!!
Alias_ Do sockets work yet?
jauaor happy
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masak jauaor: you could dedicate it to doing good for the Perl 6 community. :) 11:10
DarkAkorn masak: no, Alias_: how do I tell? 11:11
Alias_ I wasn't asking you :)
masak leaves helping DarkAkorn into the competent hands of Alias_
or not.
DarkAkorn lol
jauaor masak: On my way .. and I do hope so ... :-) 11:12
masak DarkAkorn: well, from my vantage point, seems you'd want to start something.
jauaor needs to get updated first
DarkAkorn aye
I imagine I need to run perl (something) from ssh, just not sure what 11:13
masak jauaor: I was planning to write an MD5 sum calculator in Literate Perl 5 today, and then port it to Perl 6. maybe you'll want to help.
DarkAkorn: me neither, unfortunately.
jauaor masak: awesome!.....
DarkAkorn damn
masak DarkAkorn: you could find a README file or something, perhaps.
jauaor masak: Sure ... mmm.. but .... mm... remember I don't know much about perl6 :-P
masak DarkAkorn: otherwise, just wait for the return of moritz_
jauaor just poked through a few examples
DarkAkorn hehe, readme gives no help at all 11:14
masak jauaor: I'm going to lunch now. be back in an hour. read up on Perl 6 in the meantime. :)
DarkAkorn says to come here and ask moritz_ if I have trouble :P
jauaor masak: Great!
masak: enjoy
masak DarkAkorn: then the README needs to be updated. fill it with insights from your trials :)
lunch &
DarkAkorn oh well, my ssh access is unfortunately unavailable atm due to forgetting my pw to this particular server :(
lol, if I get the chance I will, I guess I'll check back later though, thanks masak 11:15
later ya'll
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jauaor mm.. basic question 11:50
=<> eq <STDIN> ? 11:51
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masak back 12:32
jauaor: aye, it does.
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masak jauaor: in case you haven't found them already: svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/Perl6/Pe...rences.pod and perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-5-to-6/ 12:39
jauaor oh, no, will check 12:45
hanks masak
masak np
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masak I'll be starting my Perl 5 MD5 implementation now. 12:45
araujo masak, go :-D 12:51
araujo updating the firmware of his other box
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jauaor :-) 12:58
jauaor checks these links carefully 13:06
masak: I know perl ... intermediate I'd say ... 13:07
but I don't like many things of it, that I see are fixed/improved in perl6
masak jauaor: sounds good.
I must admit that my infatuation with Perl 5 is still pretty solid. but Perl 6 (in its idealized goal state) is indeed great. 13:08
jauaor masak: I am mainly a Haskell programmer ... and I can see Perl 6 is taking quite a lot from it 13:09
masak aye.
though the two are still fairly different. 13:10
jauaor well, .... I guess nobody expects to get something similar to Haskell :-P 13:11
But I personally been looking for a nice scripting language to extend Haskell apps 13:12
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jauaor So a language with similar features would be great 13:12
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masak one thing about going back to coding Perl 5 is that Perl 5 feels like it has fairly small number of operators :) 14:05
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jauaor haha , I can see perl6 increases that number 14:13
literal Perl 6 is the kingdom of operators 14:14
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masak Perl 6 is often called an operator-oriented language. 14:18
jauaor has noticed so
masak jauaor: I now have a running Perl 5 implementation of md5 digesting 14:19
wanna see?
jauaor masak: yes!
pugs_svn r22845 | masak++ | [ext/MD5-Digest] initial Perl 5 implementation, to be ported
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masak it runs, but it doesn't produce the same result as `echo -n | md5` 14:20
I don't know why.
oh, and the algorithm is here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5#Pseudocode 14:21
lambdabot Title: MD5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
jauaor haha nice masak 14:24
masak can it be that I still haven't grokked big-endian and little-endian? 14:25
jauaor can see some perl6 changes
masak indeed 14:26
aye, seems I don't yet understand what little-endian means
rule of thumb from now on: "big-endian" = "big end first" 14:27
I'll have to reverse some strings in the program :)
jauaor trying to get a perl6 implementation on this box 14:28
masak: the links for pugscode.org don't work?
masak does here. 14:29
jauaor mm...
The Download link doesn't work 14:30
for me ...
masak jauaor: which one, svn.pugscode.org/pugs ?
lambdabot Title: pugs - Revision 22845: /
masak lambdabot thinks it works, too :) 14:31
jauaor rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi?download_perl_6
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jauaor anyway ... going through svn 14:34
masak yes, you should anyway. 14:35
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masak jauaor: I don't know why that link you used is down, but it probably whould have given you Rakudo, not Pugs. 14:52
note that my commit was to the Pugs repo :) 14:53
jauaor nods
masak: it's the Download link from pugscode.org
masak that's a shame.
someone should update that.
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pugs_svn r22846 | masak++ | [ext/MD5-Digest] understood term "little-endian" and made appropriate changes 15:01
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jauaor :-) 15:28
masak still doesn't work, though 15:29
masak sulks
when the pseudocode talks about 'append "1" bit to message", does it mean to the start or to the end of the message, do you think? 15:55
masak is clutching for straws 15:56
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jauaor masak: .... do you use cabal-install for pugs? 16:45
masak jauaor: I think I did last time, yes.
but that's just for the binary. I still pull down the svn, and work on that.
jauaor masak: it fetches the code from svn?
masak dunno.
I don't target Pugs a lot, mostly Rakudo. 16:46
but the Pugs repo contains other goodies, such as the Perl 6 test suite
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masak moritz_++ # the 'tidings' post 16:53
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masak std: elems (1,2,3) 17:10
p6eval std 22846: OUTPUT[parsed␤]
masak OIC
jauaor masak: Rakudo is languages/perl right? 17:18
masak languages/perl6, yes 17:19
TimToady looks like svn is down on feather 17:20
lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
jauaor Hi TimToady
TimToady anyone here know offhand how to restart svn.pugscode.org on feather? 17:21
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avar restart apache? 17:41
if it's using http it's running through an apache module
TimToady just restarted it 17:42
doesn't help
avar what's the http url to the svn repo?
TimToady it's using https, at least from my machine
I wonder if bare http works? 17:43
masak svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ is up
lambdabot Title: pugs - Revision 22846: /
avar yes http works
masak and I have my repo checked out through http
not https
avar Interesting ports on feather.perl6.nl ( 17:44
80/tcp open http
443/tcp closed https
but yes, https down
TimToady yeah, http works, but not https :/
I only switched to https because of a temporary firewall restriction, so I guess it's time to switch back...
@msg juerd http to svn.pugscode.org works, but not https for some reason; restarting apache didn't help 17:47
lambdabot Not enough privileges
TimToady @tell juerd http to svn.pugscode.org works, but not https for some reason; restarting apache didn't help 17:48
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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pugs_svn r22847 | lwall++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] convert text to utf8 so that we don't get mojibake on 18:01
r22847 | lwall++ | t/spec/S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.t
pugs_svnbot r22847 | lwall++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] convert text to utf8 so that we don't get mojibake on
r22847 | lwall++ | t/spec/S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.t
TimToady er, oops
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pugs_svn r22848 | lwall++ | [STD] allow parsing of multiple *.t files in one process (works, but leaks badly) 18:06
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rindolf TimToady: teach me ancient Greek. 18:44
nacho_ hi 18:59
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nacho_ I want to get involved with rakudo testing 19:03
but i'm lost 19:04
rindolf nacho_: last time I tried Rakudo failed its tests here. 19:09
Trying again now. 19:13
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TimToady πτυω 19:17
rindolf Pi-Tau-something-omega? 19:19
Patterner upsilon? 19:23
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rindolf Hi Patterner 19:27
perlbot: utf8 υ
perlbot υ U+03C5 "GREEK SMALL LETTER UPSILON", category: "Greek and Coptic", utf8 bytes: CF 85, upper-case: U+03A5 (Υ)
rindolf Patterner: right.
I gather it's not the same as epsilon
Hmmm... Rakudo doesn't compile. 19:28
OK - now it works after make clean. 19:30
And noo - to make test.
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pmurias jauaor: why don't you like using haskell as your scripting language? ;) 19:31
rindolf All tests successful. 19:32
pmurias that's nice 19:33
ruoso: do we plan on putting a git repository for integrating smop and p5 somewhere? 19:38
jauaor pmurias: Because it lacks the dynamism offered by one .... and one or two line scripts are usually better in such a dynamic languages 19:42
pmurias: I am one of those who believes in both dynamic and static paradigm as two valid solutions to two different world ;-) 19:43
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pmurias having optional (maybe partial) static typing in Perl 6 would be fun 19:47
jauaor nods 19:48
Though one language usually inclines more towards one paradigm than other ... it's always nice to have both options at hand 19:49
pmurias propably just preventing things which can be determined to be an error rather than enforcing correctness would be more perlish 19:51
rindolf rakudo: my @x = (5,6,100,333); @x[1]
p6eval rakudo 31963: RESULT[6]
rindolf Hmm... 19:52
Doesn't work for me.
I'm getting No handler to delete.
jauaor pmurias: oh, and I do have tried to use Haskell as a scripting language 19:53
pmurias: I even wrote a small shell some time ago, haskell.org/hashell
pmurias i'm a young and noobish haskell coder but IMHO haskell feels much more like a dynamic language than say C 19:57
jauaor And though it's fun and all, it isn't a scripting language ... so, using it like that won't give you as many benefits as one
pmurias: what do you mean? 19:58
it certainly abstracts lot of stuff 19:59
pasteling "rindolf" at pasted "Why am I getting a "No handler to delete."" (4 lines, 138B) at sial.org/pbot/32990 20:00
pmurias you have all your types inferred for you and things glue together nicely
rindolf Any help would be appreciated with sial.org/pbot/32990
lambdabot Title: Paste #32990 from "rindolf" at
jauaor And once you get used to its type system and laziness ... it's hard not to hate other languages :-P 20:01
pmurias: aah right, from that point of view.. Haskell is by far more advanced than C .... not sure if it is a fair comparison considering the languages nature , but I understand what you say 20:02
Haskell just spoils you in so many ways
type system, laziness, type inference, infinite structures ....
So it'd be really nice to have a scripting language inheriting some of this stuff 20:03
allbery_b yopu can run uncompiled code with runhaskell. or one-liners with ghc -e 20:05
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jauaor yes you can 20:05
allbery_b unfortunately, the nature of scripting is more or less opposed to strong typing
jauaor And certainly ghci has improved greatly lately 20:06
But at the end Haskell is more of a static language .. and it will be oriented toward it better
rindolf Hmmm... works if I put it inside a script. 20:07
jauaor For example allbery_b , you can't create data constructors straight from ghci
allbery_b right 20:08
jauaor So, that gives some kind of example of certain limitations ...
allbery_b arguably if you get to the point where you need custom data types, you're in runhaskell territory anyway
jauaor For scripting or dynamic code
pmurias scripting here being the sort of things you use can use shell scripts for
or writing small plugins for complex applications? 20:09
rindolf pugs: my $x = [5,63001,7]; @$x[1]
p6eval pugs: RESULT[\63001]
nacho_ i think i will have to know pir before I get involved with rakudo test suite 20:10
jauaor pmurias: Haskell can be used for shell code .... there have been many efforts to get a proper Haskell shell going on ... but none enough popular it seems
pmurias: but you can certainly use it like that 20:11
ther eis even libraries for shell routines as modules
there are*
pmurias: I usually care more about scripting languages for extending applications though 20:12
pmurias static typing is create if the thing you're writing takes a while to test 20:14
s/create/great/ 20:17
is svn.pugscode.org alive? 20:18
sorry the https url wasn't working 20:19
jauaor the http is working ... well, worked for me a few hours ago 20:22
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pmurias the http works the https doesn't 20:23
rindolf Hi all. 20:24
pmurias rindolf: hi
rindolf How do I add a test to the Rakudo test suite to test for @$array_ref[1]?
I have the test written, but don't know where to put it.
pmurias rindolf: why not add the test to the official Perl 6 test suite in pugs/t 20:25
rindolf pmurias: ah.
pmurias: can Rakudo fail initially?
pmurias rindolf: i'm Rakudo ignorant 20:26
rindolf pmurias: ah.
pmurias jauor: the haskell->smop bindings in a way i can't understand and i'll have to rewrite them in a ugly OO perl5 way :( 20:27
s/them/code that depends on them/
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jauaor pmurias: why? 20:34
pmurias argh, i don't type all the words i mean too 20:35
s/in a way/broke in a way/ ;) 20:36
jauaor aaah ... hah
nacho_ rindolf, can you share what are you doing? :D
jauaor pmurias: where are those bindings?
rindolf nacho_: trying to get @$array_ref[1] to work.
jauaor is just getting into perl6 atm
rindolf nacho_: it's for a script I wrote that works on Pugs. 20:37
pmurias v6/smop/m0ld/M0ld/Eval.hs
i encoutered some recent bitrot so i'll have to fix some things before smop compiles again
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jauaor aaah .. mm ... 20:40
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nacho_ so, you are writing tests just for rakudo on pugs or pugs and parrot as well? 20:43
rindolf nacho_: rakudo on pugs?
nacho_: I'm trying to fix Rakudo.
nacho_: but I like to do in Test-driven-development.
pmurias jauaor: i used the gimme5 script which STD.pm uses to compile itself as a parser for the assembly language for a depraceated smop backend 20:44
* deprecated
nacho_ ok, now I understand
pmurias and mixing deprecated things with bleading edge stuff tends to break ;)
jauaor pmurias: hah 20:48
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ruoso pmurias, re git branch: I was wondering if I should ask for a remote branch on the official p5 git repo 21:29
ruoso is dead tired... spent the whole day painting his new house... 21:34
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pmurias ruoso: we could ask i'm not sure if commit bits are branch specific and how official is the stuff in the p5 git repo 21:46
spx2 is there something serious using perl6 running right now ? 21:47
like some project
or something
preferably non-web related
I mean non-web site cgi that kind of stuff
ruoso pmurias, I see... maybe we could host a p5 git repo that could be sync'ed with the main repo 21:48
and we keep our branch there
pmurias i'm not familiar with git 21:49
ruoso git is like svk, but better 21:51
it doesn't depend on a master server at al
pmurias used it for a tiny amount of time
pugs_svn r22849 | pmurias++ | [smop] removed one use of SLIME 21:53
pmurias ruoso: i'm removing slime/sm0p as it bitrotted and i don't won't to waste time fixing it again
ruoso pmurias, you just need to support the "free" operator before you can get rid of slime 21:54
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pugs_svn r22850 | ruoso++ | [smop] turn s1p_attribute from .sm0p to .ri... test is still failing with some weirdness; 22:10
ruoso pmurias, note the above commit (just to avoid you doing the same thing) 22:12
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pmurias ruoso: more RIness is nice ;) 22:14
ruoso: btw have you seen SMOP_HUNT_NULLS? 22:15
ruoso no... I haven't... what is it?
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pmurias it's an cpp flags which adds a test to SMOP_DISPATCH to check if a NULL is being returned 22:17
ruoso cool 22:19
ruoso dinner &
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pmurias ruoso: 01_smop_lowlevel.c casts ints 1,2 to SMOP_Object* :( 22:34
shower& 22:35
pugs_svn r22851 | ruoso++ | [smop] test/01 no longer casts 1 and 2 to SMOP__Object* 22:50
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pugs_svn r22852 | pmurias++ | [smop] better NULL found messages 23:10
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