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The topic for #perl6 is: pugscode.org/ planetsix.perl.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, elf: etc.) (or perl6: for all) | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ Set by TimToady on 25 November 2008. |
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| rakudo_svn | r33674 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Provide a way to get at all the possible multi dispatch candidates that could be invoked for a given set of arguments. | 00:10 | |
| pugs_svn | r24214 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Completely re-work the calling sets tests, allowing us to separately test them in the case of single dispatch, multiple dispatch and when the methods come from roles; many of the existing tests were incorrect with regard to the current spec on indirect method calls also. | 00:13 | |
| rakudo_svn | r33675 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Implement clone method in Perl6MultiSub. | 00:20 | |
| r33676 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Extensively refactor .?, .+ and .* so they know about multi methods. Also add function level docs for them, which were missing before, plus for !.^. | |||
| r33677 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Add calling sets of methods tests to spectest; Rakudo passes all 29 tests in that file. | |||
| jnthn | And thus ends a vaguely productive evening's hacking. | 00:23 | |
| meppl | good night | 00:46 | |
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| literal | why is there no word-based equivalent to the &() contextualizer? like "hash" for %(), "item" for $(), etc | 03:29 | |
| [particle] | never came up. "code" may be it, though. | 03:33 | |
| it's worth asking on p6l | 03:34 | ||
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| pugs_svn | r24215 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] add a keyword, highlight all contextualizers the same way, highlight TODO (et al) in multiline comments | 04:31 | |
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| rakudo_svn | r33695 | allison++ | [pdd22io] Merging the pdd22io_part2 branch into trunk for r32922 to r33687. | 05:20 | |
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| pugs_svn | r24216 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: regress array extending and binding tests for rakudo (temporary) | 06:34 | |
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| rakudo_svn | r33699 | pmichaud++ | Merge rakudo's 'assign' branch back into trunk. | 07:00 | |
| r33699 | pmichaud++ | List slicing and list assignment now (mostly) work, | |||
| r33699 | pmichaud++ | although we temporarily lose array element binding and | |||
| r33699 | pmichaud++ | correct array lengths. | |||
| pmichaud | rakudo: say 'hello'; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33698: OUTPUT[hello] | 07:01 | |
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| rakudo_svn | r33700 | particle++ | [rakudo] slurp('') becomes readall(); bacek++ | 07:30 | |
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| pugs_svn | r24217 | moritz++ | [t/spec] unfudge array_ref.t for rakudo | 07:51 | |
| r24218 | bacek++ | [spec] Use "lines()" instead of "slurp()" for List context | 07:52 | ||
| r24219 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more S02 unfudges for rakudo | 07:53 | ||
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| dr_df0 | rakudo: say 'test'; | 08:09 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33701: OUTPUT[test] | ||
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| moritz_ | rakudo: my ($x, $y) = (4, 5); say $x + $y; | 08:10 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33701: OUTPUT[0] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: my ($x, $y) = (4, 5); say $x; say $y | 08:11 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33701: OUTPUT[] | ||
| pugs_svn | r24220 | moritz++ | [t/spec] unfudge four more files for rakudo | 08:14 | |
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| rakudo_svn | r33702 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: Add the @a[] slice (slice with no arguments). | 08:30 | |
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| dr_df0 | hi all | 08:34 | |
| i've just checked out the latest version of parrot tree 33701 rev | |||
| and IMHO readline support in interactive env for perl6 stopped working | 08:35 | ||
| moritz_ | dr_df0: right, that's due to the merge of the IO branch by allison | ||
| dr_df0 | at least the Up and Down cursor keys are not working | ||
| but ... rakudo has the support for slices ! | 08:36 | ||
| moritz_ | irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/2008-12-09#i_749358 | ||
| dr_df0 | ok | 08:40 | |
| thanks for info | 08:41 | ||
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| moritz_ | rakudo: sub f(@a) { say @a.perl }; f(3) | 09:06 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33702: OUTPUT[3] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: sub f(@a) { @a.WHAT }; say f(3) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33702: OUTPUT[Int] | ||
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| pugs_svn | r24221 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more unfudging, and add tests to passing-arrays.t | 10:49 | |
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| rakudo_svn | r33704 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Update calls to readline for updated Parrot IO. Patch courtesy of bacek++. | 12:20 | |
| r33705 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Implement lines method on IO objects and export it. Patch courtesy of bacek++. | 12:40 | ||
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| pugs_svn | r24222 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Unfudge an IO test. Also, S16 does not say file-handles auto-chomp by default, so fix the test to not assume that. | 13:54 | |
| moritz_ | jnthn: S29: " Note: Most users should just let their I/O handles autochomp instead. (Autochomping is the default.) | 13:55 | |
| " | |||
| jnthn: so the test was actually correct. | 13:56 | ||
| jnthn | ...so half of S16 is in S29? Wonderful. | 13:57 | |
| *sigh* | |||
| moritz_ | jnthn: S16 is nothing you can really rely on :( | 13:58 | |
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| ruoso | Hello! | 13:59 | |
| PerlJam | hi ruoso. | ||
| I notice that p6l is as silent as ever :( | |||
| moritz_ | they just rant about the possible file system abstractions | 14:00 | |
| rakudo_svn | r33706 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 236 files, 4805 tests, 13 failing | ||
| r33706 | pmichaud++ | Failure summary: | |||
| r33706 | pmichaud++ | S16-filehandles/io_in_while_loops.t aborted 13 test(s) | |||
| r33707 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Make chomp Win32-aware. | |||
| r33708 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Make for =$fh { ... } style loops work. | |||
| r33709 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Add an IO test that we now pass completely to spectest. | |||
| pugs_svn | r24223 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Need to learn not to rely on S16 for much... | 14:03 | |
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| rakudo_svn | r33710 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Implement auto-chomping, as mentioned in S29. | 14:20 | |
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| dr_df0 | hi all | 14:34 | |
| perl6: my @array = <a b c d>; my $foo="B"; my $bar="C"; @array[1,2] := ($foo,$bar); say @array; | 14:35 | ||
| p6eval | elf 24223: OUTPUT[syntax error at (eval 117) line 6, near "] :" at ./elf_f line 3861] | ||
| ..rakudo 33710: OUTPUT[rtype not setcurrent instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)] | |||
| ..pugs: OUTPUT[abB Cd] | |||
| dr_df0 | this command should return <a B C d>, right? | ||
| perl6: my @array = <a b c d>; my $foo="B"; my $bar="C"; @array[1,2] := ($foo,$bar); say ~@array | 14:36 | ||
| p6eval | elf 24223: OUTPUT[syntax error at (eval 119) line 6, near "] :" at ./elf_f line 3861] | ||
| ..rakudo 33710: OUTPUT[rtype not setcurrent instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)] | |||
| ..pugs: OUTPUT[a b B C d] | |||
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| pmichaud | binding slices isn't supported in rakudo yet. | 14:45 | |
| and I don't know what pugs is doing there. | 14:47 | ||
| ruoso | it's probably turning 1,2 into 2 | 14:48 | |
| and binding the second element to a list | |||
| which is then flattened to that result | |||
| s/the second/the third/ | |||
| pugs_svn | r24224 | dr_df0++ | spec/S09-subscript_slice/slice.t fudged for rakudo | 14:51 | |
| ruoso later & | 14:53 | ||
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| Tene | rakudo: my @array = <a b c d>; my $foo="B"; my $bar="C"; @array[1,2] = ($foo,$bar); say @array.perl | 15:03 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33710: OUTPUT[["a", "B", "C", "d"]] | ||
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| dr_df0 | Tene: but it's not binding | 15:36 | |
| Tene: it's an asignment to selected elements in an array | |||
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| pugs_svn | r24225 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Unfudge tests for reduction meta-operator with chaining comparrison ops for Rakudo. | 15:56 | |
| rakudo_svn | r33713 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Make reduction meta-operator work with chaining comparrison operators. | 16:00 | |
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| moritz_ | rakudo: say "yes" if 2 < 4 < 5 | 16:40 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: OUTPUT[yes] | ||
| [particle]1 | joy. | 16:41 | |
| moritz_ | rakudo: say "yes" if [<] 2, 4, 5 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: OUTPUT[yes] | ||
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| moritz_ | rakudo: say "yes" if [===] 1, 1, 1, | 16:41 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: OUTPUT[No result objectcurrent instr.: 'parrot;PCT;Grammar;item' pc 52 (src/PCT/Grammar.pir:65)] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: say "yes" if [===] 1, 1, 1 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: OUTPUT[yes] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: say "yes" if [===] 1, 1, 2 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: RESULT[Bool::False] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: my $x; my $y say "yes" if [=:=] $x, $x, $x | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "say \"yes\" "current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| [particle] | oh, that's totally perlish! i'm giddy. | ||
| rakudo: my $x; my $y; say "yes" if [=:=] $x, $x, $x | 16:42 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: OUTPUT[yes] | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: my $x; my $y; say "yes" if [=:=] $x, $x, $y | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: RESULT[Bool::False] | ||
| moritz_ | that's what I wanted to do :-) | ||
| rakudo: my $x; my $y :_ $x; say "yes" if [=:=] $x, $x, $y | 16:43 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":_ $x; say"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: my $x; my $y := $x; say "yes" if [=:=] $x, $x, $y | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33713: OUTPUT[yes] | ||
| moritz_ | gotta run to catch the bus, bbl& | ||
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| rakudo_svn | r33714 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: Set postcircumfix:<[ ]> to also be callable as a function | 17:00 | |
| r33714 | pmichaud++ | * This should help with other HLLs that don't provide a method form. | |||
| r33715 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] First cut on non-dwimmy hyper ops. The non-unicode quote forms now work, there's some problem with the unicode forms. | |||
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| ruoso | Hello! | 17:07 | |
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| rakudo_svn | r33716 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: Update gen_metaop_pir.pl to generate the unicode forms of sub/hyper. | 17:20 | |
| [particle] | rakudo: @('a'..'z').[<18 1 11 21 4 15> >>-<< [xx] 1, 6].say; | 17:28 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33715: OUTPUT[rakudo] | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: @('a'..*).[<18 1 11 21 4 15> >>-<< [xx] 1, 6].say; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33715: OUTPUT[Use of uninitialized valueUse of uninitialized valueUse of uninitialized valueUse of uninitialized valueUse of uninitialized valueUse of uninitialized value] | ||
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| moritz_ | rakudo: my ($x, $y) = (3, 4); say $x; | 17:34 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33716: OUTPUT[] | ||
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| moritz_ | can prefix ops have an adverb? | 18:09 | |
| and if so, would it go before or after the operand? | |||
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| rakudo_svn | r33719 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Add the various dwimmy variants of infix hyperoperators. | 18:30 | |
| pmichaud | after | ||
| moritz_ | that's good | 18:31 | |
| [particle] | rakudo: @('a'..'z').[<18 1 11 21 4 15> >>->> [xx] 1].say; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33717: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ".[<18 1 11"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: @('a'..'z').[<18 1 11 21 4 15> >>->> 1].say; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33717: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ".[<18 1 11"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| [particle] | still have to wait two revs... | ||
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| moritz_ | [particle]: rebuilt (although the rev. number in the output isn't updated= | 18:32 | |
| [particle] | rakudo: @('a'..'z').[<18 1 11 21 4 15> >>->> 1].say; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33717: OUTPUT[rakudo] | ||
| [particle] | jnthn++ | 18:33 | |
| pmichaud | so very cool. Now if only we could get the unicode forms to work. | ||
| [particle] | moritz++ for not stealing my thunder :) | ||
| jnthn | I do now have the fun that I want tests for hyper ops. | 18:36 | |
| But the unicode lots are nicely interspersed between the ASCII lot. | |||
| Which would make it a nightmare to fudge. | 18:37 | ||
| moritz_ | jnthn: maybe I can fiddle them out for you | ||
| jnthn | Anyone object to a little re-arranging, or anyone fancy some fudging? | ||
| moritz_ | go right ahead | ||
| jnthn | moritz_: If you can do that, would be wonderful. | ||
| Oh, OK. :-) | |||
| jnthn wants to review the tests anyway. | |||
| moritz_ | I don't mind either way | ||
| I'm just not into the hyper ops right now | |||
| jnthn | Since things like auto-extending into nested arrays also works. | ||
| say (1,[2,[3,4],5],6) <<*>> 2; # works | 18:38 | ||
| moritz_ is duly impressed | |||
| [particle] | rakudo: say (1,[2,[3,4],5],6) <<*>> 2; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33717: OUTPUT[24 6 8 1012] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: say ((1,[2,[3,4],5],6) <<*>> 2).perl | 18:39 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33717: OUTPUT[[2, [4, [6, 8], 10], 12]] | ||
| jnthn | I didn't do it for hashes yet. I'll save that for another day, or for someone else to have fun with. | 18:40 | |
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| moritz_ | rakudo: for (a => 2, b =>1).kv { .perl.say } | 19:05 | |
| rakudo: say "alive" | 19:06 | ||
| wtf? | |||
| rakudo: say "test" | 19:07 | ||
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| avar | rakudo: [<18 1 11 21 4 15> >>-<< [xx] 1, 6] | 19:20 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33721: RESULT[[17, 0, 10, 20, 3, 14]] | ||
| [particle] | avar: you can deobfuscate with >>->> 1 instead | 19:21 | |
| partially deobfuscate, anyway :) | 19:22 | ||
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| rakudo_svn | r33722 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: Clean up some minor errors in hyperop generator. | 19:30 | |
| pugs_svn | r24226 | moritz++ | [t/spec] clean up hyper.t a bit, and fudge some tests for rakudo | 19:31 | |
| r24226 | moritz++ | (unfurtunately the fudging added more visual clutter) | |||
| Tene | why [xx] 1, 6 instead of 1 xx 6? | 19:32 | |
| pmichaud | both work. | ||
| first might be slightly more readable | |||
| second requires parens | |||
| (1 xx 6) | |||
| because xx is lower precedence than >>-<< | |||
| pugs_svn | r24227 | moritz++ | [t/spec] group tests in hyper.t by Unicodeness to avoid too many fudge markers | 19:35 | |
| rakudo_svn | r33723 | moritz++ | [rakudo] add hyper tests to t/spectest.data | 19:40 | |
| moritz_ | rakudo: say -<< ([1, 2], [3, [4, 5]]); | 19:41 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33721: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "-<< ([1, 2"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
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| masak | moritz_: I'm not sure if I will have time to contribute, but I'm definitely interested in discussing S24. | 19:46 | |
| moritz_ | masak: nopaste.snit.ch/14884 is my current "outline" | 19:56 | |
| pmichaud | I'm also interested in S24 | ||
| rindolf | rakudo: 1 xx 6 | 19:57 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33723: RESULT[[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]] | ||
| rindolf | rakudo: 1 x 6 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33723: RESULT["111111"] | ||
| moritz_ | the syntax was discussed with TimToady a few weeks or months ago | ||
| any comments and questions are welcome | 19:58 | ||
| masak | it's... unorthodox. | ||
| moritz_ | aye ;-) | ||
| masak | any direct advantage to doing it like this? | 19:59 | |
| moritz_ | masak: the reasoning was that is($a, $b, '...') leaves it very unclear how comparison is performed... | ||
| masak | that's true. | ||
| moritz_ | masak: so the current fallback is ok($a =:= $b, 'explanation') | ||
| masak: which suffers from very bad diagnostics | |||
| masak | yeah, suboptimal. | ||
| moritz_ | so if a test went wrong, it's not easy to see what these two values where | 20:00 | |
| so the idea is that we already have many "test operators", ie those that return a boolean value | |||
| masak | `$x eq 'foo' :ok()` sort of has the wrong stress to it. usually, the adverb doesn't contain the most vital part of the statement. | ||
| moritz_ | that's true. It would be nice if the start of a line told us that it's a test | 20:01 | |
| jnthn | moritz_: Ah, I'd done some work on the hyper tests too. :-) | ||
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| jnthn | I'll see what you've done. :-) | 20:02 | |
| masak | moritz_: in the best of worlds, is() would be a macro which analyzed the boolean operator in its first argument. :) | ||
| something like `is( $a eq $b, ...)` | 20:03 | ||
| moritz_ | masak: in the best of worlds that would be ok(), not is() | ||
| masak | hm, yes. | ||
| moritz_ | 'is' is already used in too many places inthe language | ||
| masak | aye. | 20:04 | |
| moritz_ | masak: problem is that macros are hard (for the compiler), and testing should be easy | ||
| masak | and having both 'is' and 'eq' would be tautological. | ||
| moritz_: why is that a problem? | |||
| compilers should do much of the heavy lifting. | |||
| moritz_ | masak: compilers should be able to run the test suite in meaningful ways before they do macros | 20:05 | |
| masak | oh, but it can. 'ok()' works even without the macro. | ||
| ...at least if it's treated as an ordinary sub. | |||
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| masak | (but I'm on shaky ground here. I don't really know how macros will work.) | 20:06 | |
| moritz_ | you're right on this one... | 20:07 | |
| masak | apart from the kvetch about :ok being pushed out towards the insignificant right, I have no complaints :) | 20:08 | |
| moritz_ | masak: we're discussed that, and somehow it was discarded. But I can't remember what exactly the killer argument was... | ||
| masak | ok. | 20:09 | |
| moritz_ | masak: I think that TimToady wanted a more generic way to access the parse tree or AST for some subs... | ||
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| masak | a more generic way? than what? | 20:10 | |
| moritz_ | masak: than declaring a macro | ||
| somethinig like 'sub ok($bool is AST, $msg?)' | 20:11 | ||
| masak | ah. | ||
| have you considered naming 'tests-done' just 'done'? | 20:12 | ||
| moritz_ | I think that's a bit too generic | ||
| but otoh plan() is pretty generic too | 20:13 | ||
| masak | not to mention is(), ok()... | ||
| moritz_ | well, that's another point for using adverbs: they don't pollute the sub namespace | ||
| masak | 'tests-done()' is slightly ambiguous. | ||
| moritz_ | right now that's not a problem because is(), ok() etc. are only imported when you 'use Test;' | 20:14 | |
| [particle] | how about a magical, like $?PLAN | 20:18 | |
| moritz_ | [particle]: I don't want too many variables involved | 20:19 | |
| I don't even like the currently proposed $*TEST_BACKEND | |||
| but I can't think of a better way | |||
| [particle] | sure, but perhaps better a magical var than a sub that can be overridden | 20:20 | |
| unless perhaps it becomes Test::plan() | |||
| masak | [particle]: as long as the usual scoping rules apply, I don't see a problem. | ||
| moritz_ | [particle]: if plan() class $*TEST_BACKEND.plan by default, you can simply override it by changing $*TEST_BACKEND | ||
| s/class/calls/ | 20:21 | ||
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| [particle] | 2 :plan; :) | 20:23 | |
| moritz_ cries in agony | |||
| masak | :) | 20:25 | |
| it's consistent, though. | |||
| [particle] | yep. that's saying something about the rest, perhaps. :) | 20:26 | |
| masak | in the kindest way possible. | ||
| pmichaud | the issue with macros is that it could be hard to analyze anything more than simple operators | ||
| masak | aye. | ||
| pmichaud | which might simply mean "okay, don't analyze in that case" | 20:27 | |
| but still it can complicate the implementation a fair bit. | |||
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| masak | difficult to provide coverage in all situations. | 20:27 | |
| pugs_svn | r24228 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Correct some and unfudge some hyper spec tests. | ||
| moritz_ | I'm collecting the pros and cons for both approaches right now | ||
| pmichaud | istr that TimToady especially liked the end-weight of :ok on the right | ||
| [particle] | istr the same | ||
| moritz_ | that doesn't mean that we have to like it ;-) | 20:28 | |
| pmichaud | personally, I think that if we don't go with the :ok approach, then stick with a functional approach like we have now. | ||
| it has worked well in practice, and it's relatively easy to understand and implement | |||
| masak | nod. | ||
| pmichaud | the default builtins aren't supposed to be "everything you'd ever want in a Testing library" -- that's what modules are for. | ||
| this is just supposed to be "a good set of defaults for testing." | |||
| moritz_ | and "easily extensible" | 20:29 | |
| pmichaud | that too. | ||
| moritz_ | we shouldn't forget that there are other thiings than TAP, for example | ||
| masak | is the adverb approach easily extensible? | ||
| pmichaud | so, I would expect to continue to see todo() as a separate function, meaning "mark the next test(s) as TODO with reason x" | ||
| moritz_ | masak: I think so, yes | 20:30 | |
| masak | moritz_: how? | ||
| moritz_ | masak: by installing more multis (sub infix:<eq>($a, $b, :$ok)) and normal subs | 20:31 | |
| and the flexibility is mainly a feature of how easy it is to swap the backend | |||
| [particle] | can an adverb be mixed in as a role? | 20:32 | |
| moritz_ | dunno | ||
| [particle] | multi infix:<eq>(Any $left, Any $right) gets Testy { ... } | 20:33 | |
| ruoso .oO( what is so badly wrong about Test.pm? ) | 20:35 | ||
| rindolf | ruoso: perl5's Test.pm? | ||
| ruoso | no, the idea of a module that provides a set of functinos to do testing | 20:36 | |
| and that's all | |||
| moritz_ | ruoso: for example is() is badly abused right now, and that won't change easily | ||
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| masak | moritz_: can you be a bit more specific? | 20:38 | |
| pmichaud | I think the attraction is that testing is (desired to be) a part of Perl culture, so it makes sense for some testing operations to be builtins | ||
| masak | that's not the same as having them be adverbs, though. | 20:39 | |
| moritz_ | masak: is() doesn't say how the args are compared, and different comparison semantics are implied all over the place | ||
| pmichaud | actually, I'm proposing that is() always use value equivalence. | ||
| ruoso | moritz_, and why doesn't the "ok" function of Test.pm analyse the AST of the way its arguments are built? | ||
| [particle] | value_is would be more clear, then | ||
| moritz_ | ruoso: because functions never see the AST | 20:40 | |
| masak | moritz_: couldn't reasonable heuristics be employed? something like 'if both args are numbers...' | ||
| pmichaud | particle: I'm saying it should compare using infix:<eqv> | ||
| ruoso | moritz_, they usually don't | ||
| moritz_, but they ould | |||
| moritz_ | pmichaud: value equivalence can be surprisngly tricky | ||
| ruoso | *could | ||
| pmichaud | that would mean that is() also automatically has "deeply" semantics. | ||
| moritz_ | ruoso: not without major changes and performance penalty | 20:41 | |
| pmichaud | but for standard things like Int, Num, Str, we get the basic "value and type" equivalence. | ||
| ruoso | moritz_, uh? | ||
| masak | pmichaud: I like that. | ||
| ruoso | moritz_, Perl 6 is supposed to be able to introspect into the code itself | ||
| pmichaud | yes, it seems natural. | ||
| moritz_ | ruoso: but not at the sub level | ||
| pmichaud | so, is($a, $b, 'foo') returns "ok" if $a eqv $b | ||
| masak | ruoso: Perl 6, yes. but not subs whose args are already evaluated. | 20:42 | |
| pmichaud | easy to explain, does the right thing in nearly all cases, including deeply nested structures. | ||
| masak | pmichaud: what happens with `5 eqv "5"` ? | ||
| ruoso | 5 eqv '5' should be true | 20:43 | |
| moritz_ | no. | ||
| ruoso | I thnk | ||
| moritz_ | Int is not eqv Str | ||
| pmichaud | 5 eqv '5' is false, because they don't have the same type. | ||
| ruoso | hmm... | ||
| masak | that might be a slight disadvantage. | ||
| pmichaud | why? we can easily cast in the test | ||
| moritz_ | so we'll see the rise of is(~$foo, ~$bar, ...) which is rather ugly IMHO | 20:44 | |
| masak | sure, if we're aware of it. | ||
| moritz_: not to me. it's explicit. | |||
| and not too long. | |||
| pmichaud | I don't think there will be a lot of casting of both operands. | ||
| we already see things like $foo eq $bar and $foo == $bar, which is the same thing but with a different sort of cast. | |||
| moritz_ | masak: the perl philosphy has always been to determine the type of operation by the operator (eq, ==), not by the operands | ||
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| moritz_ | I'd like to stick to that philosphy | 20:45 | |
| pmichaud | I think that philosophy might be changing | ||
| comes with the territory of introducing the prefix:<...> operators for coercion | |||
| masak | moritz_: but this is a call to a test sub, not an operator. different requirements. | ||
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| pmichaud | that was one of the advantages of the :ok approach, though, in that it left the type of operation up to the operator | 20:46 | |
| moritz_ | masak: but we already have all the ops for doing testing as we wish. It feels unnatural not to use them | ||
| pmichaud | moritz_: if you want to use the ops, you can already do that with ok() | ||
| ok($foo eq $bar, '...') | |||
| moritz_ | pmichaud: right. but it's not as convenient, so it's not used very much. | ||
| pmichaud | that's at least as clear (or better than) is_eq($foo, $bar, '...') | ||
| it's not as convenient because people like to do is($foo, $bar, '...') | 20:47 | ||
| but then we have to worry about what type of comparison 'is' is performing | |||
| using 'eqv' means that it does the "natural" sort of comparison | |||
| masak | moritz_: did anyone consider calling the adverb :test instead? feels a bit more spot-on than :ok for some reason. | ||
| pmichaud | mmmm, :test is nice too. | ||
| good suggestion. | 20:48 | ||
| ruoso | masak, :assert would be more sane, than | ||
| masak | ruoso: no, assert has slightly other connotations for me. | ||
| moritz_ | ruoso: :assert implies throwing an exception on violation | ||
| masak | aye. | ||
| pmichaud | same here, I think of assert as throwing exceptions. | ||
| ruoso | er... | ||
| perfect | |||
| CONTROL exceptions | |||
| :) | |||
| moritz_ | pmichaud: I think that eqv has too strict semantics, for example '@a eqv your_sub()' is false if your_sub returns a list, not an array | 20:49 | |
| pmichaud: I also thing that correct eqv implementation is non-trivial | |||
| so we keep is(), then please with string comparison semantics. That's very simplistic, but we can have an is_deeply for more elaborate things | 20:50 | ||
| [particle] | it's more trivial than macros... | ||
| moritz_ | s/so we/so if we/ | ||
| pmichaud | moritz_: I disagree (more) | ||
| obviously a full Perl 6 implementation has to have a correct eqv at some point | 20:51 | ||
| moritz_ | well, macros would only be needed for diagnostics, not for running the tests correctly | ||
| pmichaud | so implementation difficulty is only an issue when bootstrapping | ||
| but during bootstrap, it's okay to "cheat" and have eqv do string comparison semantics | |||
| or to otherwise special-case eqv enough to do whatever you need to pass tests | |||
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| masak | why is eqv difficult to implement? | 20:51 | |
| [particle] | sub infix:eqv(...) is instead { ... } | 20:52 | |
| pmichaud | or even to special-case is() during bootstrapping | ||
| ruoso | wouldn't it be sane to have is($a,$b,'...') to perform a ~~ instead of a eqv ? | ||
| moritz_ | pmichaud: from the point of view of a test suite maintainer I have to disagree on cheating eqv. It accounts for many imprecise test that haven'T been caught by now | ||
| pmichaud | ruoso: we thought about that, but that actually invites all sorts of comparisons that aren't precise | ||
| [particle] | p6 is very different from p5 in that all the dwimminess is in one op, ~~ | ||
| pmichaud | moritz_: that will be true regardless | ||
| moritz_ | ruoso: ~~ does too much magic (for example sub calls, regex matches etc) | ||
| [particle] | everywhere else, p6 is much more about precision | ||
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| pmichaud | moritz_: if it's that big an issue to an implementor, then getting a correct eqv would be high on the list | 20:53 | |
| I don't know that the test suite itself needs to dictate that | |||
| moritz_ | pmichaud: maybe I'm biased here, because up until now I haven't see an eqv implementation in rakudo ;-) | 20:54 | |
| pmichaud | because I haven't bothered to do one | ||
| or, perhaps I did, but it just does string semantics for now. :-P :-P | |||
| masak | heh | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: say 1 eqv 1 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33724: OUTPUT[Could not find non-existent sub infix:eqvcurrent instr.: '_block11' pc 27 (EVAL_13:17)] | ||
| pmichaud | I can fix that quickly :-) | ||
| moritz_ | well, even $a.perl eq $b.perl isn't too bad an approximation | 20:55 | |
| it will fail for hashes, but is quite OK otherwise | |||
| ruoso | I wonder if the test module couldn't look into the actual code that was "asserted" and provide the desired error message ? | ||
| pmichaud | right, so why not just have eqv do that approximation? | ||
| ruoso | $a eq $b :assert '$a should be string-equal to $b' | ||
| [particle] | s/assert/test/ # for my taste | ||
| moritz_ | ruoso: that was TimToady's proposal | ||
| pmichaud | ruoso: that was the point of :test/:ok -- each operator can choose an appropriate error message | 20:56 | |
| [particle] | i don't like :ok | ||
| pmichaud | $a eq $b :test | ||
| moritz_ | (IMHO :ok and :test are both OK, if we go that way= | ||
| s/=/)/ | |||
| ruoso | (I really like :assert) | ||
| pmichaud | (results in "ok ### - 1 should be eq 1" in output) | ||
| ruoso | (and yes, it throws an exception...) | ||
| [particle] | assert screams compile-time failure to me | ||
| moritz_ | ruoso: I think you're the only one here ;) | 20:57 | |
| ruoso | but anyway.... | ||
| [particle] | should .perl give type info when it's ambiguous? | ||
| Mapping.new( 'a' => 1 ); | |||
| pmichaud | .perl should give whatever is needed to recreate the value in Perl | ||
| ruoso | what would '$a eq $b :test 'This is a test'' imply in terms of the eq operator? | 20:58 | |
| moritz_ | ruoso: a 'mutli infix:<eq>($a, $b, :$test)' | ||
| pmichaud | ruoso: that the operator should generate an appropriate testing diagnostic | ||
| [particle] | or { 'a' => 1 }.Mapping | ||
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| ruoso | having to define additional arguments in 'eq' is not that nice | 21:00 | |
| moritz_ | ruoso: they can be autogenerated | ||
| masak | moritz_: can they be autogenerated and still provide precise diagnostics? | 21:01 | |
| [particle] | yes, as long as .perl is precise enough | ||
| masak | hm. | ||
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| moritz_ | masak: I'd expect 98% to be autogenerated and 2% to be hand written for better diagnostics | 21:03 | |
| for example for =:= the default output would be pretty meaningless | |||
| and for ~~ | |||
| masak | aye. | 21:04 | |
| ruoso | hmm... the idea of an additional argument to the ops really looks bad | ||
| masak | actually, I'm warming up to the idea. | ||
| but I'd prefer if :ok were :test. | |||
| pmichaud | for ~~ the diagnostics can be pretty good, since it knows the type of its rhs | 21:05 | |
| it can say what kind of match it thought it was doing :-) | |||
| masak | that'd be awesome. | ||
| moritz_ | pmichaud: yes, but not the autogenerated diagnostics that other ops like eq and == use | 21:06 | |
| pmichaud | moritz_: agreed. | ||
| moritz_ | anyway, you've given me much food for thought, thanks masak, pmichaud, [particle] and ruoso | 21:07 | |
| masak | np. | 21:08 | |
| pmichaud | I know that chromatic also wanted to be heavily involved in that synopsis | 21:09 | |
| moritz_ | I'm sure I won't reject his input ;-) | 21:10 | |
| I'd like to put my thoughts to a wiki page, but not perlfoundation.org (I hate socialtext) - any recommendations? | 21:11 | ||
| masak wishes he could recommend one particular wiki more whole-heartedly | 21:14 | ||
| moritz_ | ;-) | ||
| masak | we really need that server-side upgrade soon. | 21:15 | |
| moritz_ | get a bigger machine? ;-) | ||
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| [particle] | moritz_: how about trac wiki at pugscode, or at parrot? | 21:19 | |
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| moritz_ | [particle]: that might be better. I hope the parrot folks don't mind it if I abuse their wiki a bit | 21:20 | |
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| masak | perl6: my @a = <work? this will Yoda himself asked>; say @a[2,1,0,3,5,4].join: " " | 21:37 | |
| p6eval | pugs, rakudo 33726: OUTPUT[will this work? Yoda asked himself] | ||
| ..elf 24228: OUTPUT[Useless use of a constant in void context at (eval 117) line 4.Useless use of a constant in void context at (eval 117) line 4.Useless use of a constant in void context at (eval 117) line 4.Can't locate object method "join" via package "himself" (perhaps you forgot to load | |||
| .."him... | |||
| masak | pmichaud++ | ||
| wastrel |  | ||
| masak | wastrel:  | 21:38 | |
| wastrel | i don't know what it is but it is beautiful | ||
| pmichaud | it's a box on my screen :-( | ||
| masak | wastrel: it's a newline symbol :) | ||
| wastrel | some utf8 abomination | ||
| PerlJam | it's a little diagonal NL on mine | 21:39 | |
| masak | here too. | ||
| wastrel | oic N L | ||
| www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/ch.../index.htm oui? | |||
| doesn't look like that on mine :] maybe font too small | |||
| PerlJam | that's the one | ||
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| moritz_ | trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/PerlSixTesting this is where I put down my thoughts on S24 for now | 21:49 | |
| [particle]++ for suggesting the parrot wiki ;) | |||
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| KriZ | hi | 22:01 | |
| moritz_ | hi there | ||
| pugs_svn | r24229 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for === and =:= and their negated forms inside meta ops | 22:02 | |
| masak | hi, KriZ | 22:04 | |
| KriZ | i have a question , i want to realise a tempo of x millisec in perl script, and i dont have any idea of which function i can use ( sorry guy for my english :) ) | 22:05 | |
| can u help me ? | |||
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| masak | KriZ: you might try a Perl 5 forum, like #perl. | 22:05 | |
| Hinrik | perl6: my $var-iable = 1; say $var-iable | 22:06 | |
| p6eval | pugs: OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&iable" at /tmp/QRYNIMA8hz line 1, column 1-18] | ||
| ..rakudo 33726: OUTPUT[1] | |||
| ..elf 24229: OUTPUT[Useless use of subtraction (-) in void context at (eval 123) line 3.Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::prefix__61 called at (eval 123) line 3. at ./elf_f line 3861] | |||
| masak | KriZ: this is #perl6, for discussing Perl 6, the upcoming major Perl version. | ||
| rakudo: does Perl 6 rock".split(" ").sort[1,0,2,3].perl | |||
| p6eval | rakudo 33726: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "6 rock\".sp"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| Hinrik | rakudo: my $var--iable = 1; say $var--iable | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33726: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "iable = 1;"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| masak | oops | ||
| rakudo: say "does Perl 6 rock".split(" ").sort[1,0,2,3].perl | |||
| p6eval | rakudo 33726: OUTPUT[["Perl", "6", "does", "rock"]] | ||
| KriZ | ok thank you for your help i will try the perl 5 forom | ||
| bye ;) | |||
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| moritz_ | Hinrik: - and ' are only allowed in identifies if there are word characters on both sides | 22:07 | |
| masak | KriZ: good luck! dang. | ||
| moritz_ | rkaudo: my $x-4; # should bail out | ||
| [particle]1 | moritz_: and only one-at-a-time it seems | ||
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| moritz_ | [particle]1: sure, since - isn't a word charcter | 22:07 | |
| rakudo: my $x-4; # should bail out | |||
| p6eval | rakudo 33726: RESULT[-4] | ||
| moritz_ | or that | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: my $don't-mess-with-me; | 22:08 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33726: RESULT[undef] | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: my $don't-mess-with--me; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33726: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "me;"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| [particle] | that's a bit limiting | ||
| moritz_ | [particle]: but sane in not generating variables that look like substractions | 22:09 | |
| [particle] | i'm not using numbers anywhere | ||
| just talking about the lack of ablitity to use a--b | |||
| or c''d | |||
| not sure it's good or bad, just noticing, thanks to Hinrik++ | 22:10 | ||
| it should be tested, anyway | |||
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| moritz_ | aye | 22:11 | |
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| pugs_svn | r24230 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for [eq], [ne] | 22:15 | |
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| jnthn | moritz_: Are those passing ones? | 22:15 | |
| moritz_ | jnthn: aye | ||
| jnthn | Nice. | 22:16 | |
| [particle] | has autounfudge been run recently? | ||
| moritz_ | even the tests for [!=:=] work, the most obscure-lookiing comparison operator ever ;-) | ||
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| moritz_ | [particle]: yes, after the assign branch merge | 22:16 | |
| aka "today" | 22:17 | ||
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| jnthn | That looks...so odd. :-) | 22:22 | |
| masak | [!=:=] means 'test that adjacent items are not id-equal to each other'? | 22:23 | |
| moritz_ | masak: yes | ||
| masak | yuck :) | ||
| moritz_ | masak: if you mean 'container identity' with 'id-equval' | ||
| s/v// | |||
| masak | let's say I do. | ||
| moritz_ | ;-) | ||
| [particle] | :) | 22:24 | |
| pugs_svn | r24231 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Unfudge some attribute initialization tests that Rakudo now passes. | 22:25 | |
| moritz_ | rakudo: sub pow2($x) { [*] ((1 xx $x) >>*>>2 ) }; say pow2(5) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[32] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: sub pow2($x) { [*] (1 xx $x >>*>>2 ) }; say pow2(5) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[1] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: sub pow2($x) { [*] ((1 xx $x)>>*>>2 ) }; say pow2(5) | 22:26 | |
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| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[32] | 22:26 | |
| moritz_ | rakudo: sub pow2($x) { [*](1 xx $x)>>*>>2 }; say pow2(5) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[32] | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: sub pow2($x) [*](1 xx $x)>>*>>2}; say pow2(5) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "[*](1 xx $"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| [particle] | wow. that's overkill. | ||
| moritz_ | rakudo: sub pow2($x){[*](1 xx $x)>>*>>2}; say pow2(5) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[32] | ||
| moritz_ | now somebody say you can't do obfu in Perl 6 ;-) | ||
| rakudo: sub pow2($x){[*](1 xx$x)>>*>>2}; say pow2(5) | |||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[32] | ||
| jnthn | moritz_: Stop trying to break it! :-P | ||
| But, neat. :-) | 22:27 | ||
| masak | moritz_: with great pow comes great responsibility. | 22:28 | |
| moritz_ | heh, once I get tired of writing tests I can say "jonathan told me to stop trying to break it" ;-) | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: sub powx($x, :$base = 1) { [*] (1 xx $x) >>*>> $base}; say powx(:2, 5); | 22:29 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "(:2, 5);"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| [particle] | oops | ||
| moritz_ | :base(2) | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: sub powx($x, :$base = 1) { [*] (1 xx $x) >>*>> $base}; say powx(:base => 2, 5); | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[get_integer() not implemented in class 'Perl6Pair'current instr.: 'infix:xx' pc 16733 (src/builtins/op.pir:224)] | ||
| masak | ooh! | ||
| [particle] | feh. | ||
| masak | a bug! :) | ||
| moritz_ | [particle]: :base(2) or base => 2 | ||
| not :base => 2 | |||
| masak | but still. | ||
| there's a bug in there, somewhere. | 22:30 | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: sub powx($x, :$base = 1) { [*] (1 xx $x) >>*>> $base}; say powx(:base(2), 5); | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[32] | ||
| [particle] | rakudo: sub powx($x, :$base = 1) { [*] (1 xx $x) >>*>> $base}; say powx(5); | ||
| rakudo_svn | r33728 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] First cut of initializing attributes at the point of declaration (has $.x = 42). | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 33727: OUTPUT[1] | ||
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| [particle] | (optional args with defaults)++ | 22:30 | |
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| moritz_ | well, it's not Perl 6 release today, but it still feels a bit like christsmas. | 22:31 | |
| jnthn++ pmichaud++ | |||
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| masak | indeed. | 22:34 | |
| Hinrik | moritz_: actually, S02 says "An identifier may also contain isolated apostrophes or hyphens provided the next character is alphabetic." | 22:36 | |
| ah, since it has to start with an alphabetic one it effectively requires alphabetical chars on both sides | |||
| [particle] | that implies plural, and things like a'-'-'''--'--''-'-b | ||
| hrmm, "isolated" | 22:37 | ||
| moritz_ | if you think the language isn't clear, look at how STD.pm does it | ||
| [particle] | that *definitely* means single | 22:38 | |
| a--b is *not* allowed. | |||
| moritz_ agrees | |||
| and neither is a-'b | |||
| [particle] | agreed | ||
| masak | moritz_: FYI, I'm slowly getting acquainted with the contents of t/oo | 22:51 | |
| moritz_: what do you propose one do with the tests containing the keyword 'submethod', which is not implemented by Rakudo yet? | 22:52 | ||
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| [particle] | masak: stevan had said in the past that there would soon be a bunch of Moose tests that could be imported/converted to p6spectests | 22:53 | |
| they may be more current than t/oo | |||
| moritz_ | masak: just move them without fudging them | 22:54 | |
| masak | moritz_: ok. | ||
| moritz_ | masak: if they are in t/spec/, they have the "hopefully reviewed" status | ||
| masak | moritz_: I'll take a close look at them first, then. | ||
| jnthn | Hopefully we'll have submethod this month. | 22:55 | |
| masak | I took a stab at implementing submethods in Rakudo, but -- who would have thought? -- that turned out to be non-trivial. | ||
| [particle] | ha. | ||
| masak | basically, I tried to see if the tests would pass if I just treated a submethod as a method. | 22:56 | |
| (they didn't) | |||
| then I tried treating it as a sub. that didn't work either. :) | |||
| jnthn | masak: It needs changes to dispatching. | 22:59 | |
| masak | jnthn: aye. so I gathered. | ||
| jnthn | I'll do it at the same time I do a bunch of other dispatcher stuff - it's part of the grant I've applied for. | ||
| masak | Rakudo is shaping up to be a really nice implementation of Perl 6, methinks. | 23:00 | |
| rakudo_svn | r33730 | moritz++ | [codingstd] remove trailing whitespaces | ||
| r33732 | moritz++ | [rakudo] tools/autounfudge.pl: add a --section option to for example only | |||
| r33732 | moritz++ | process S12 tests | |||
| r33733 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Implement cross meta-operator, which sicne now we have reduce and we already had infix:X was rather trivial (it's just the de-sugaring shown in S03). | |||
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| [particle] | rakudo: <a b> X~X <1 2> | 23:01 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 33728: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "2>"current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)] | ||
| [particle] | few revs behind :( | ||
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| pugs_svn | r24232 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Unskip/untodo some tests for the cross meta-op. | 23:19 | |
| rakudo_svn | r33734 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] infix:X ended up giving a result that flattened, which meant we got wrong results. | 23:20 | |
| r33735 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] infix:X,X is just infix:X. | |||
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| pugs_svn | r24233 | moritz++ | [t/spec] update fudge reasons in cross-metaop.t | 23:26 | |
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| moritz_ | 4886 passing tests, time to call it a day. | 23:35 | |
| jnthn | Ooh, working towards 5,000. | 23:37 | |
| MT can be a piece of crap at times... | 23:38 | ||
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| meppl | good night | 23:46 | |
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| pmichaud | pugs: say ((1,2), (3,4)).elems; | 23:57 | |
| p6eval | pugs: OUTPUT[4] | ||
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