perl6-projects.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: 'perl6: say 3;' | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by mncharity on 25 March 2009.
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eternaleye Is there an infix junctive operator for 'none'? I know there's & => 'all', | => 'any', ^ => 'one', but is there something like ! => 'none'? 01:41
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skids eternaleye: I do not believe so. 01:53
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eternaleye perl6: multi infix:<!>( *@list ) is precedence('q=') is assoc('list') { return none( @list ); }; say (1 ! 2 ! 3).perl 02:11
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«(1 ! 2 ! 3)␤»
..rakudo 266557: OUTPUT«Malformed routine definition at line 1, near "infix:<!>("␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:85)␤»
..elf 26354: OUTPUT«No viable candidate for call to multimethod infix__33(#,#) at (eval 127) line 8␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤»
eternaleye perl6: multi infix:<!>( *@list ) is precedence('q=') is assoc('list') { return none( @list ); }; say (1 ! 2 ! 3)
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«none(VInt 1,VInt 2,VInt 3)␤»
..rakudo 266557: OUTPUT«Malformed routine definition at line 1, near "infix:<!>("␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:85)␤»
..elf 26354: OUTPUT«No viable candidate for call to multimethod infix__33(#,#) at (eval 126) line 8␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤»
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azawawi hello 06:00
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moritz_ good localtime 06:09
azawawi hi moritz_ 06:11
moritz_: it is time to have proper p6 syntax highlighting now... im going through the trees :) 06:12
moritz_ what do you mean? 06:13
azawawi moritz_: in S:H:P6 we used to hack our way; now im going to go more specific a bit 06:14
moritz_ azawawi: you can use .chunks on the match objects now 06:15
azawawi moritz_: in STD or rakudo? 06:16
moritz_ azawawi: both
azawawi moritz_: any docs on .chunks? 06:17
moritz_ azawawi: though the one in rakudo is a wee bit broken wrt the keys, but that shouldn't stop you
azawawi: S05
azawawi moritz: szabgab also told me about the p6 highlighting hack he recently made to Padre::Plugin::Perl6 06:18
moritz_: using rakudo
moritz_:padre.perlide.org/changeset/4000 06:19
moritz_: it is not perfect though
moritz_: how can we make all of S29 and S32 more function documentation index-friendly? :) 06:21
moritz_: smart-tags?
moritz_ azawawi: first of all by generating HTML from the Pod
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azawawi moritz_: i used to index =item function-name and then assume the rest is its documentation in S29 06:22
moritz_: but now functions are in S29 and S32 06:23
moritz_: for help on functions and tooltips in Padre...
pugs_svn r26355 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] updated to jquery-1.3.2 06:34
dalek kudo: fd0a4d5 | (Stephen Weeks)++ | src/builtins/control.pir:
Use load_lang opcode for eval with :lang
06:37
pugs_svn r26356 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] version is now 0.042. Latest STD in included. 06:41
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pugs_svn r26357 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Ignore *.store files 06:44
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pugs_svn r26358 | leto++ | Additional tests for log10() of a Complex 06:59
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Matt-W Morning 07:16
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dukeleto morning' 07:38
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jeremiah_ Congrats to masak and hinrik for their SoC project! 09:04
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moritz_ indeed 09:08
and to tewk and allison 09:09
and darbelo and cotto
and pmurias and ruoso
cotto yay!
now the fun part begins
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moritz_ fun++ 09:13
if you need any mathematical expertise for that project, feel free to ask (though I doubt that you'll need it) 09:14
cotto probably not, but I'll remember that you offered 09:17
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jeremiah_ Yes - congratulations to all. 09:29
I only have met masak in RL so that is why I started out with him. :)
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moritz_ the only Perl 6 developer that I met in RL is jnthn 09:31
:/ 09:32
jeremiah_ moritz_: You mean "Thunderously apoplectic" jnthn? 09:33
heh
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arnsholt Any of you guys planning on participating in the Perl Iron Man blogging contest? 10:15
jnthn got back home safely at 2am...crashed on his bed...and didn't wake up until mid-day! 10:16
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azawawi hello 10:17
jnthn arnsholt: I blog about once a week anyway, so may well submit mine... 10:18
arnsholt Heh. Decided on a title and colour yet? =) 10:20
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pugs_svn r26359 | masak++ | [S05] typo: removed extra 'returned' 10:32
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alanhaggai is away: gone fishing. 10:56
moritz_ dukeleto: t/spec/S32-num/log.rakudo, Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 29 tests but ran 27. - do you have anything to do with that? 11:12
dalek kudo: d0a5de5 | (Moritz Lenz)++ | src/setting/Match.pm:
Match.perl: work around RT #64952
11:15
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mikehh t/spec/S32-num/log.rakudo - Failed 2/29 subtests (less 4 skipped subtests: 23 okay) - and the same message as mottitz 11:44
s/mottitz/moritz_/ 11:45
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pugs_svn r26360 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fix rakudo fudging of log.t; simplify a test 11:49
moritz_ dukeleto: when you add tests that make rakudo die, you have to #?rakudo skip them, not just 'todo'
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mikehh moritz_ how do you get the rakudo test to try without re-running the whole test suite - I did a make testable and then? 11:59
moritz_ mikehh: make t/spec/S32-num/log.t 12:01
pmichaud -good morning, #perl6
moritz_ good localtime() pmichaud 12:03
jnthn hi, pmichaud 12:04
Hope your trip home went fine?
mikehh moritz_: good that works then - the spectests now pass - rakudo (fd0a4d5) on parrot r38266
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mikehh Kubuntu Intrepid Amd64 12:04
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pnu rakudo: class N { method Num { return 41 } }; say N.new + 1; 12:08
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«42␤»
pnu oh, i must have old version..
cool
mikehh moritz_: how come log10 of complex unit (i) is ok but not log10 complex in general? 12:09
moritz_ rakudo: say log10(1i) 12:11
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«0␤»
moritz_ that's wrong.
rakudo: say log(1i)
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«0+1.5708i␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say log(1i)/log(10)
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«0+0.682188i␤»
moritz_ that's the correct result
but a log10 of a complex number is a really weird beast, I don't know what you ever need that for 12:12
pmichaud trip home was fine, last flight was delayed 2hrs, and I ended up sitting next to the iPod from hell.
however, the oslo->newwark trip was _very_ nice, I ended up with an entire row of seats to myself, _and_ a powerport. :-) 12:13
jnthn "I PLAYS MY TECHNO SO LOUD!!!"
Oh, nice!
Mine was fine...though didn't make the train home from Wien - Bratislava that I'd hoped, so was home by 2am instead of 1am. But no biggie. 12:14
Slept until mid-day today though!
pmichaud good sitghtseeing in Oslo? 12:15
*sightseeing 12:16
ruoso @tell pmurias I know why it's breaking when the refcount is on... nagc really can only be used in the msot basic types, it shouldn't be used when the DESTROY call recurses, we need an additional gc that is able to handle recursing in the interpreter... just as lowlevel.sm0p did...
lambdabot Consider it noted.
pmichaud I now have a patch that blesses regexes into the Regex class... but it depends on a change to Parrot, so it'll have to go in after the release. 12:18
moritz_ pmichaud: you can always push it to a branch, if you want testing
fridim_ Outch, Camelia is really horrible oO 12:19
jnthn Weather in Oslo was gorgeous...went to see the royal palace, which I'd not seen before, and then hung around by the sea for quite a while...had ice cream, enjoyed the sun and fresh air. :-)
Ooh, very happy you've done that patch! 12:20
pmichaud afk, taking kids to school 12:23
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Matt-W jnthn: That sounds wonderful 12:27
pnu rakudo: class B { method Str { return 'xxx' } }; say B.new;
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«xxx␤»
moritz_ rakudo: class B { method Str { return 'xxx' } }; say B 12:28
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«B␤»
pnu i just upgraded my rakudo and it segfaults for this..
rakudo: class X { method Str { return 'x' } }; say 'y' ~ X 12:31
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«yX␤»
pnu rakudo: class X { method Str { return 'x' } }; say 'y' ~ X.new 12:32
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«yx␤»
pnu First one say "Could not find non-existent sub y" on my machine. 12:33
moritz_ pnu: are you using perl6 -e '...' ?
pnu The second one "Could not find non-existent sub x"
yep.
moritz_ pnu: then you can't use single quotes inside -e '...'
pnu oh no, i made that same mistake again.. 12:34
that was strange behaviour indeed. :-/ sorry, my bad.
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pnu rakudo: class B { method Bool { return Bool::False } }; if B.new { say 'true' } 12:49
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«true␤»
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moritz_ rakudo: class B { method true { return Bool::False } }; if B.new { 12:50
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 1, near ""␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:85)␤»
moritz_ rakudo: class B { method true { return Bool::False } }; if B.new { say 'true' }
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: ( no output )
moritz_ rakudo: class B { method true { return Bool::False } }; say (?B.new).perl 12:51
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
pnu ok, i should call that method "true" not "Bool"? 12:53
moritz_ yes. 12:54
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pmichaud Yes, the handling of booleans (and their relationships) isn't entirely clear. 12:59
jnthn Last I knew, we needed to do something like role Bool::True { method true { 1 } }; role Bool::False { method true { 0 } } 13:01
And True and False are just aliases to these. 13:02
pmichaud ...but then how do we have a Bool type?
jnthn Oh, gah, yes. :-|
pmichaud i.e., Bool::True ~~ Bool ?
jnthn oh
role Bool { method true { ... } }
role Bool::True does Bool { method true { 1 } } 13:03
etc
Would cut it.
I *think*.
pmichaud is there a .Bool method?
(in Object)
moritz_ that's not clear to me 13:04
jnthn Not sure, but if there is then it's a coercion...
Like Str etc
pmichaud right. But then which "wins"... .true or .Bool ?
i.e., if I override .Bool but don't override .true
jnthn I think we can say, .Bool gives you something that is ~~ Bool
Whereas .true gives you some "native" unboxed value. 13:05
pmichaud and prefix:<?> always uses .true ?
Matt-W This makes my head hurt 13:06
jnthn That may work.
pmichaud same here -- I've asked several times before but not gotten clean answers :-|
Matt-W I always thought Bool would be a simple matter
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Matt-W I guess it's not so much about 'true' as 'do you think you are true' 13:06
jnthn Basically the best I managed to get this down to, was that True and False are roles that have a true method.
pmichaud so overriding .Bool would change the way that something coerces to a Bool, but wouldn't affect testing for boolean-ness or prefix;<?>
jnthn I guess .Bool should by default call .true, which by default tests .defined 13:07
Or something like that...
pmichaud that seems confusing to me.
jnthn Same
Matt-W and so most of the time you would override .true for custom types
which might trip a lot of people
pmichaud It seems confusing to me that overriding .Str will affect prefix:<~>, but overriding .Bool doesn't affect prefix:<?>
jnthn True and False want to be roles that override true though, last I knew.
pmichaud otoh, there's another related confusion.
jnthn Though maybe they need to override .Bool also.
pmichaud if I override .Int (but not .Num), how does that affect numification ? 13:08
moritz_ and isn't it .int now?
Matt-W I suppose it depends what it's numifying to...
moritz_ because int as a prefix is gone
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pmichaud and yes, perhaps it's .int now 13:09
jnthn int and Int ain't the same thing.
Matt-W absolutely not
moritz_ another thing that I thought about late last night... how do I say how to coerce to a parametric type?
Matt-W I think a lot of programmers would assume that overriding .Bool would alter the behaviour of prefix<?> appropriately 13:10
jnthn Foo[P1, P2](...)
moritz_ I mean method Array[Int] { ... } isn't valid syntax, is it?
std: method Array[Int] { [1] }
p6eval std 26360: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Malformed method at /tmp/6jBHt8UPev line 1:␤------> method Array[Int] { [1] }␤ expecting any of:␤ blockoid␤ method_def␤ terminator␤ trait␤ whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 34m␤»
jnthn phone
Matt-W moritz_: always have to ask the hard questions... 13:11
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wayland76 Matt-W: jnthn escaped at the right time then :) 13:13
moritz_ Matt-W: I started off with simple questions :-) 13:14
pmichaud Do we still want/need the 'quotemeta' method in S32-setting-library/Str.pod ?
pnu Matt-W: yes, that's exactly what i assumed too.. I'm trying to define coersion to Bool.
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Matt-W I would have thought ? would do return self.Bool, but it seems my understanding of the very nature of true and false is wrong 13:15
moritz_ pmichaud: it's not useful for regexes anymore, but I've seen it used for user stuff some times (although very seldom) 13:16
IMHO we could rip it out
pmichaud Matt-W: It's just that the spec has gone through many revisions and has never had this particular aspect re-unified.
moritz_ it's as simple as .subst(/\W/, { "\\$/"}, :g)
pmichaud yes, but I was going to eliminate the [A-Z...] part 13:17
(because it's obviously wrong)
Matt-W pmichaud: yeah, so we get to melt our brains out trying to do that :)
pmichaud personally I think I'd like to see .true defined in terms of .Bool
moritz_ pmichaud: maybe TimToady needs it for his p5 -> p6 translation plans
like p5=> 13:18
pmichaud moritz_: that's possible. But then it should probably be p5quotemeta or export(:P5) or somesuch
Personally, it looks like a p5-thinko to me. 13:19
Even the regex isn't p6.
(hasn't been that way since 2004.) 13:20
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moritz_ then rip it out 13:21
pugs_svn r26361 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] fixed a bug in adhoc_signature 13:23
r26361 | pmurias++ | added tests for lexical scope,adhoc_signature and scalar
r26361 | pmurias++ | the lexical scope tests uncover a refcounting bug
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pmurias ruoso: hi 13:25
lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
jnthn pmichaud: How are we doing for a name for the release?
It's for sure I'm giving a talk about Rakudo at Bratislava.pm tomorrow ;-)
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Matt-W Perhaps it should be called Bratislava, in order to get them to buy jnthn lots of beer 13:27
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ruoso hi pmurias 13:28
moritz_ we obviously need more support from various .pm groups 13:29
PerlJam good morrow #perl6 13:31
Matt-W oh
patmat hello :)
Matt-W discovers there's a Nottingham.pm
...only the site's down
PerlJam Seems to me that there's a good fund raising/marketing opportunity with rakudo release naming 13:32
Matt-W quite possibly 13:33
PerlJam The PM that gets chosen is like "king for the month" (until the next release)
Matt-W also an incentive to get Rakudo 1.0 out before we run out of names
moritz_ there are more than enough .pm groups out there 13:34
more than 100, for sure
I hope we'll get 1.0 (or 6.0) out before 2017
pnu rakudo: prompt 'broken' 13:36
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«brokenMethod 'readline' not found for invocant of class 'IO'␤current instr.: 'prompt' pc 21935 (src/builtins/io.pir:166)␤»
moritz_ that was me, I fear
should be s/readline/get/ in IO.prompt 13:37
literal when does rakudo have releases? once a month? 13:38
PerlJam literal: yep
literal ok
PerlJam right after the parrot releases
pmichaud jnthn: I haven't reviewed all of the suggestions I've received, but thus far I think Bratislava is in the lead. 13:39
PerlJam votes for Bratislava too then
:)
pmichaud I think TimToady suggested 2014 :-)
moritz_ it's a realistic goal, I think
pmichaud Stockholm is high on my list also.
moritz_ although it's likely very usable much earlier
PerlJam Why 2014? 13:40
pmichaud Because that's how long it took Tolkein for LOTR
PerlJam ah.
pmichaud anyway, unless anyone has any reason for holding it, I'll probably do the release later today instead of waiting until tomorrow. 13:41
hanekomu i heard that at npw as well, and my tolkien fandom time was long ago, but didn't he take over twenty years to publish lotr after the hobbit?
PerlJam I was trying to come up with some formula for perl6's incubation period based on previous perls
hanekomu istr that the hobbit was in the 30s; lotr was 50s, no?
hanekomu checks
PerlJam hanekomu: I didn't think any of them were published until after the war
hanekomu Hobbit 1937 13:42
moritz_ well, Perl 6 was announced... when? 2001?
hanekomu LotR 1954-55
so ok
17 years
pmichaud 2000, I think.
hanekomu see, i just bought you 3 years
moritz_ :-)
pmichaud hanekomu: Perhaps, but TimToady did say 2014. 13:43
Personally, I'd like to shoot for something much sooner than that :-)
moritz_ IMHO concurrency and pluggable object models are a large unknown factor
PerlJam 2010 would be a good year 13:44
moritz_ who can tell how long it will take to implement threads, events and STM?
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pmichaud We're rapidly whittling away the unknowns, however. :-) 13:44
moritz_ portable IO will also take some time
PerlJam moritz_: it just has to be portable *enough* for the first release :) 13:45
pugs_svn r26362 | pmichaud++ | [spec]: Clean up 'quotemeta' in Str.pod, add some questions/comments.
moritz_ I don't think that what parrot has right now is close to what Perl 6 needs.
pmichaud moritz_: perhaps, but we can always write our own stuff in Parrot.
That _is_ one of its advantage -- we can add "core" capabilities without having to construct an entire VM.
so if Parrot's built-in IO PMCs don't do what we want, we can create our own. 13:46
moritz_ pmichaud: yes, I know. But it still needs to be done
which is my entire point
same with concurrency
and Unicode string levels
and module versioning 13:47
pmichaud rakudo: my %h = 1..6; say %h.exists('1');
p6eval rakudo d0a5de: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz_ I don't what to be a pessimist, but all of those could mean lots of work
pmichaud but the work parallelizes much better than it used to, also. 13:48
yes, they are still lots of work.
moritz_ onto as many hackers as we have
which isn't a huge number at the moment
moritz_ is a bit gloomy today 13:49
pmichaud moritz_: yes, but you didn't see the number of people playing with rakudo at the hackathon :-)
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pmichaud It was.... gratifying. 13:49
Especially compared with what we had at the Frozen Perl workshop in February (more) 13:50
moritz_ pmichaud: I can imagine, yes. And I've noticed a host of new names in here
which is of course a good thing
Matt-W When's the next exciting gathering?
pmichaud the major difference being between Feb and Apr being that it's now far easier to get a working Rakudo today than it was then.
Matt-W: the next gathering on my calendar is YAPC::NA, June.
Matt-W Sounds expensive
moritz_ and that NPW was very Perl 6 centric
Matt-W Crossing the Atlantic isn't cheap :( 13:51
pmichaud There's a Parrot/Perl 6 workshop scheduled for the two days prior to YAPC::NA
The next european gathering that I'm likely to attend (if I'm able to attend is YAPC::EU)
Matt-W woohoo
pmichaud That's in Lisbon.
I'm submitting talks in the expectation that somehow I'll be able to go.
Matt-W :)
hope you can
pmichaud (talk submissions are due by Apr 30, for those who are thinking of such things) 13:52
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ascent_ Is there anything what could be done by someone who knows Perl5, C (but without any language-development background) and doesn't have time to get into Parrot (looks like complicated) ? 13:53
moritz_ ascent_: yes, I've written a TODO for our build system
let me find that link...
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moritz_ ascent_: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=64868 13:54
you can also start to learn Perl 6, and write tests
alester ping pmichaud
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Matt-W August in Lisbon 13:54
ouch
Maybe I can go :) 13:55
moritz_ hot?
pmichaud alester: pong
alester Have you looked at the patch mailing stuff in git?
Matt-W moritz_: I suspect so
pmichaud alester: briefly
alester I sent in my first git patch last night, and it's pretty butt-simple.
Matt-W moritz_: I'm not good with hot 13:56
PerlJam alester: what did you patch?
pmichaud alester: Where did you send the patch?
moritz_ alester: are you talking about the mail-patch branch?
alester let me find it.
It was a patch to git.
A 2-parter: www.spinics.net/lists/git/msg101458.html and www.spinics.net/lists/git/msg101457.html 13:58
pmichaud alester: if you could make a bullet list of the steps you used to create the patch, that would be useful. We could try it out.
alester Do you have a git source distro?
It's all in Documentation/SubmittingPatches
pmichaud no, I don't have a git source. Surely it's available online somewhere, though :-) 13:59
alester maybe I'll gratutiously patch something in Rakudo
Now, I'm not sure what you do with it on your end to maintain all the state info that's in it. 14:00
pmichaud I think I can figure that out. At this stage the important thing is that it be easy to review.
alester yeah, and I think you'll agree it is.
The 1/2 and 2/2, it did automatically for me.
so it's one file per
pmichaud were these short patches to begin with? Would we still want someone to squash multiple commits together? 14:01
alester Probably.
You want to have logically-combined commits.
pmichaud right.
ascent_ moritz_: I'll look into build system. Where I can find Perl6 tests? 14:02
alester OK, lemme see what i can do here.
pnu coersion to numberic context calls always method Num, even if Int would be sufficient and method Int defined? 14:03
moritz_ ascent_: in the pugs repo in t/, svn.pugscode.org/pugs/t/
ascent_ moritz_: oh, I've looked at rakudo and parrot. :)
pmichaud pnu: See the discussion earlier -- we're not sure how Int and Num play with numification.
moritz_ ascent_: rakudo's 'make spectest' imports the important part of these tests 14:04
alester rebuilds his rakudo install, untouched for weeks. 14:05
dalek kudo: 04ee8d0 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
spectest-progress.csv update: 374 files, 10467 passing, 0 failing
14:06
14:07 zamolxes left 14:08 rindolf joined 14:10 dalek joined, cspencer joined
ruoso pmurias, hi again 14:11
cspencer good morning!
PerlJam the download link from github ... does that give you a tarball of the latest repo or of a release? 14:14
pmichaud latest repo, if done on trunk. 14:15
PerlJam Or ... how does one obtain releases? www.rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo doesn't seem to mention it.
pmichaud seems like we need to improve that. Currently I'm just uploading them to my server and publishing them there. 14:16
We don't yet have an official place for them.
alester CPAN for now?
pmichaud I thought about doing CPAN, but someone would probably need to walk me through the pieces needed to set that up.
alester You've never uploaded to CPAN? 14:17
pmichaud Only Parrot.
alester Then it should be same.
What are you thinking would be different?
pmichaud well, it's different because Parrot was already set up with wahtever metainformation CPAN needs.
Rakudo doesn't hae that.
alester I don't think we care.
pmichaud surely the indexer cares. 14:18
alester We're just using CPAN for distribution, not the meta indexing hoohah.
pmichaud ah.
I know we had to deal with indexing in the Parrot uploads, though.
alester OK, I don't know about that.
But I bet that if we just use it as distro, it won't matter.
"Here, go download rakudo-14.tar.gz"
14:20 pmurias left
pmichaud oh, hey! GitHub has a "upload" section in its downloads. 14:20
alester Well, tehre we go.