»ö« | perl6-projects.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot: perl6: say 3;' | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz_ on 27 June 2009.
azawawi hi 00:19
lambdabot azawawi: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
azawawi @messages
lambdabot literal said 3h 47m 31s ago: pong
literal said 3h 33m 21s ago: I'm working on a couple of things, but they're not ready just yet
azawawi @tell lichtkind what license are the perl 6 tablets using? 01:08
lambdabot Consider it noted.
Util In the S02 table on "generalized adverbial form of Pair notation", the last line reads: 02:40
a => %foo<a> %foo<a>:p
Why `p`? Is it a typo?
PerlJam I think it means "interpret %foo<a> as a Pair" 02:42
azawawi @tell literal I took the liberty of extending grok (at runtime) in my Padre Perl 6 plugin to support more help from Perl foundation wikis, padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/5994 02:44
lambdabot Consider it noted.
Util PerlJam: thanks; I will sleep on that. 02:55
s1n pmichaud: you didn't miss much at dfcuug 03:07
dfwuug
azawawi ping 04:05
moritz_: I added more help from Perl 6 wiki tablets; now you can find help about Perl 6 operators... Not much but better than nothing :) feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/perl6_hel...ablets.png 04:07
@tell masak any update on u4x?
lambdabot Consider it noted.
dalek kudo: 02d0ed2 | pmichaud++ | (2 files):
Replace string-based typecheck with class-object based typecheck.

due to something going wrong when do_dispatch (written in C) calls
  !bindability_checker (PIR) which calls typeof_s_p opcode which
calls the 'name' vtable function which itself happens to be overridden in PIR via a :vtable flagged sub. Or something like that. Anyway, we once again see that using string names as class identifiers leads to trouble. (Bad coder! No biscuit!)		 07:14
moritz_ pmichaud: that makes t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/hash_ref.rakudo fail 7/32 07:19
num.t 4/48
lots of fallout, actually 07:21
(with parrot r39973)
on amd64 debian
pmichaud moritz_: interesting, hash_ref.t works for me 08:44
num.t also
moritz_ pmichaud: I aborted the spectest after seeing lots of fallout... should I restart and give you a complete output?
pmichaud make sure everything's clean :-) 08:45
but yes, complete output is probably worthwhile
no rush -- I'm heading to bed soon
moritz_ is realclean clean enough=
s/=/?/
pmichaud usually it's clean enough, but sometimes it isn't.
(in parrot)
maybe remove the parrot/ dir and rebuild with --gen-parrot
moritz_ I'll do a git-clean -dfx 08:46
ok, will take some time, I'll just paste the result later on 08:47
pmichaud I'll be up again in just a few hours 08:48
moritz_ pmichaud: nopaste.snit.ch/17199 09:21
murbarf hi 12:01
moritz_ hello 12:01
moritz_ it's quiet in here today, ENOMASAK ;-) 12:07
wayland76 www.perl6-projects.org/ looks funny at 800x600 on Seamonkey (this is what I'm using). If someone could pass the message to the appropriate person, that would be great :). ["Funny looking" means that the boxes aren't side by side, but sort of scattered around the place :) ) 12:50
lambdabot wayland76: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
pmurias moritz_: my newest GSoC blog post: pmurias.livejournal.com 12:53
masak (and here's the unchanging URL, for the logs: pmurias.livejournal.com/1375.html ) 12:58
lambdabot masak: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
masak @messages 12:59
lambdabot azawawi said 8h 51m 12s ago: any update on u4x?
masak azawawi: yes, see logs of latest perl6-gsoc meeting.
skids pmurias: oprof is pretty good actually, once you get an arm around it. 13:08
pmurias i seemed pretty good but without a tutorial it's hard to understand all the myriad options 13:09
and sysprof is just modprobe a module and press two buttons
skids Well, first tell it you have no kernel image, assuming you don't. 13:10
The gui helps a bit, but can be a little confusing.
skids (Depends on what you want to profile, and what your CPU supports) 13:11
Then it's really a matter of telling it to print the call tree when examining the results.
pmurias i just wanted to profile CPU usage 13:11
skids But what part of the cpu? 13:12
:-)
pmurias my understaning of lowlevel concepts is very limited 13:14
isn't the amount of time the cpu evaluated a given piece of code a resonable quality
* quantity
?
skids Not really, because a lot of programs are bound up on L2 cache, not cycles. 13:15
skids ouch. my oprofile-gui got kicked because it depends on a versioned libanyevent-perl which conflicts with a custom libcoro-perl :-P 13:18
Which of course is SMOP-essential
bollocks!
ah update fixed. 13:21
pmurias: so what's a good mildew benchmark to test with? 13:24
masak wow, seems people are approximating a consensus in the filetest thread. amazing! 13:43
skids pmurias: the SMOP_DISPATCH as a function stuff seems to break a make clean/build. It's choosing the function in base.h but not compiling a functional version. 13:44
pugs_svn r27501 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] add missing file 13:57
skids__ well, it appears SMOP has a knack for crashing kernel while oprofile is running. Probably due to the locking. 14:02
pmurias skids__: the locking is turned off 14:04
skids__ hrm. well, something then. Maybe I'll play with it later, gotta stay up and running at the moment. 14:05
pmurias skids__: what do you think would be a good way to gather profiling for SMOP? 14:06
skids__ I'm not much of a fan of building it in, but with the methods all going through the same "message" function I guess you have to. 14:07
PerlJam std: for 1..* _> @a { } 14:09
p6eval std 27501: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Missing block at /tmp/56pOJ4obBV line 1:␤------> for 1..* _> @a { }␤ expecting any of:␤ infix or meta-infix␤ infix stopper␤ parameterized block␤ standard stopper␤ terminator␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
PerlJam std: for 1..* -> @a { }
p6eval std 27501: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
PerlJam std: for 1..* -> [@a] { }
p6eval std 27501: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
PerlJam std: for 1..* -> [@a[50]] { }
p6eval std 27501: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤» 14:09
PerlJam std: for 1..* -> @a[50] { } 14:10
p6eval std 27501: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
skids__ (unless there was a way to make a separate "message" sub for every SMOP_DISPATCH message.) 14:10
pmurias skids__: the message sub would have to be unique for every RI and method identifier combination? 14:13
skids__ pmurias: unless you didn't care about aliasing between RIs. 14:15
masak PerlJam: that's syntactically correct, but would fail at runtime. 14:16
skids__ At some point the information is good enough that you can say, "I know which one is the culprit here"
PerlJam masak: You mean in a particular implementation or in any perl 6 implementation? 14:17
masak PerlJam: you're asking each element to be an array of 50 elements. 14:18
but the elements aren't arrays, they're integers.
bam. type fail.
PerlJam oh, you're only talking about that last one. 14:19
masak aye.
masak moritz_: yes, I've been having sleep challenges lately due to finding way too interesting books close to my bed at night. I'm working to rectify this problem. 14:21
lucs masak: By finishing the books? :)
masak lucs: partly that, yes. 14:22
masak I once amused myself by golfing down the 8-queens problem as much as I could in Perl 5. masak.org/carl/w/index.php/Perl:Golf -- it would be interesting to see someone do the same for Perl 6. 14:53
last Aiiii! The last version (no whitespace) makes my brain hurt. 14:58
sbp masak: there's some strange &apos; double encoding at the top there 14:59
M_o_C you don't have something like smolder for make spectest, do you? 15:10
Su-Shee hi. 15:40
sjohnson Su-Shee: hi 15:50
Su-Shee flees from perl6 bashing. i didn't know how many people don't like it. 15:51
cbk_ Lexical 'self' not found? What the heck does that mean and how can I fix it (of course I get this in MY perl 6 code) 15:52
masak Su-Shee: people fear the unknown. 15:53
TimToady it means you used syntax that implies a current object when there isn't a current object
cbk_ like this: if $listObj.checkList( %.petList, $pet) { ...} 15:54
?
TimToady that won't work outside a method
Su-Shee masak: it's annoying, but it's no use to get into an argument..
TimToady because %.petList means %(self.petList) 15:55
cbk_ I'm trying to pass %petList as a pramater
ok
TimToady why did you put the .?
masak Su-Shee: agreed. let's concentrate on being unignorably awesome instead.
cbk_ just saying that I had a question
Su-Shee masak: gladly. 15:56
cbk_ perl is kinda funny that way, I know I see $_ and think it's a typeO 15:56
sorry.
TimToady masak: -> *@x[50] could conceivably take only the next 50 arguments 15:58
though it would likely misbehave if there were less than 50
masak aye.
cbk_ So what would be the best method (way) to pass a petList to a method? 15:59
TimToady is it in variable %petList already?
masak cbk_: $obj.method(%petList)
cbk_ yes thats what I ment %petList
TimToady p6 doesn't autoflatten like p5 does
assuming the signature of .method is ready for a hash object as the first parameter 16:00
method foo (%pl) {...} would get %petList as %pl
cbk_ masak: that is what I had did: if $listObj.checkList( %.petList, $pet) { ...} 16:01
and the method : method checkList ( %list, $pet ) {
TimToady leave out the .
cbk_ ok
TimToady masak: I think it's more than just fear of the unknown, but false Laziness that doesn't want to distinguish What Is from What Ought To Be, and I already learned how Perl 5 does it, which is obviously right, so Perl 6 must be wrong somehow... 16:04
masak hm. 16:05
TimToady sorry for the viewpoint shift in the middle, bad writing style...
masak I have this pattern.
people don't rationally derive at opinions through arguments.
they try to find arguments that defend their opinions.
TimToady yes, Man is not a rational animal, but a rationalizing animal --I forget who 16:06
masak nod.
cbk_ TimToady, masak: I wouldn't worry too much about what perl6 haters say. Not too many people welcome change(even if it is for the better)
masak cbk_: word. 16:07
cbk_ Per 6 is going to ROCK!
masak cbk_: it already does. :)
masak doesn't need the future tense for Perl 6
cbk_ well for me, as soon as a book comes out cuz it's hard learning without one
TimToady Heinlein, it appears, at least for the 2nd half of it 16:08
masak cbk_: Perl 6 books tend to have short half-lives. :)
Heinlein -- doesn't surprise me.
cbk_ yah I understand
TimToady perhaps channeling Russell for the first part
TimToady another component of it is simply that Perl 6 promises to obsolete Perl 5 eventually, and some people confuse that with immediately 16:09
TimToady and then when it doesn't happen immediately, they assume the promise is false 16:10
cbk_ TimToady, my second computer programming lang (that I tried to learn) was c++. I loved the OO of it. Then I started (trying) to learn Perl. (OO in old perl was not that fun, too much work) Now comes Perl 6, it's like c++ and old perl had a babby and that babby will be that best OO programming lang to date, with all of the fun and rapid prototyping/development of Perl! 16:15
sbp remembers seeing an inordinately rude essay recently about auto-flattening in perl5 vs. perl6 — the point apparently being that auto-flattening was only lately and grudgingly removed from perl6
I don't know about that, but I did check some other things in the essay... 16:16
PerlJam cbk_: please please please don't equate perl's oop to c++ 16:17
C++ was a good first approximation of an oopy language with C-like syntax, but we've progressed a little since then.
cbk_ yah, I know but it was my FIRST exp. in oop, thats why i said that. 16:18
sbp considers how to do non-chaining prototypicality in perl6 OO
masak TimToady: the thing about obsoleting, and the eventually/immediately timescale, is eerily reminiscent of the myths surrounding Esperanto. 16:19
sbp hmm. I wonder if there's a design pattern for this 16:20
the problem being that you have a prototype, you derive various things from it, then you modify some junk on the original prototype and then that propagates back down in ways that cause problems
“Classes are open and non-final by default, but may easily be closed or finalized not by themselves but by the entire application, provided nobody issued an explicit compile-time request that the class stay open or non-final.” — S12 16:22
when a class is finalised, it can still be cloned from though I presume?
is there any way you can say, “nope, you can't clone from this”? 16:23
I think... hmm, some language had this
oh yeah, MOO
sbp ‘An alternative quasi-solution to the problem of clones interfering with the behavior of the parent is to provide a means whereby the potential parent is flagged as being clonable or not. In MOO, this is achieved with the "f" flag.’ — en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype-bas...rogramming 16:24
(clones interfering with the behavior of the parent? eh? shouldn't that be the other way around?)
sbp “All classes inherit a default new constructor from Object. It expects all arguments to be named parameters initializing attributes of the same name.” — oh this is clever 16:33
“Whether you write your own BUILD or not, at the end of the BUILD, any default attribute values are implicitly copied into any attributes that haven't otherwise been initialized.” — hmm. what if you don't want that? 16:35
PerlJam sbp: don't supply defaults? 16:36
sbp PerlJam: well, you say that, but I can imagine writing some spaghetti code somewhere where you get arguments that you want to discard for some reason. "don't do that when it hurts" implies you have control over doing it... :-) 16:40
but yeah, I'm not really thinking it through 16:41
PerlJam sbp: assign Nil to the items you want to discard. 16:49
sbp oh, undef you mean? hmm 16:50
yeah, thanks. hard to keep all this in mind
lisppaste3 cbk pasted "passing parameters" at paste.lisp.org/display/83377 16:51
cbk_ this is the problem that I get now with the %petList passed as a parameter...paste.lisp.org/display/83377 16:52
of course I have already done this: my $listObj = PetList.new(); 16:54
PerlJam cbk_: but it's complaining about %petlList 16:55
er, %petList even
cbk_ well I'm trying to have one method check ether one of the 2 %hashes I have. Thats why I pass %petList as a parameter I could also have used %perReq the other % 16:58
PerlJam cbk_: but apparently you didn't declare a hash called %petList 16:59
cbk_ I have it in the class: my %petList = (dog => 1, cat => 1, fish =>1, rabbit =>1); and my %petReq; ##pet retuest list (just empty) 17:00
PerlJam cbk_: check your scoping. 17:01
cbk_: or paste your code somewhere and let us tear it apart :)
cbk_ well ok, but be gentle, I don't write much code and I'm just starting to learn perl 6.... 17:02
here it is: paste.lisp.org/display/83380 17:04
PerlJam cbk_: yes, your %petList is scoped to the class, but you're trying to use it outside of the class in the loop 17:05
cbk_ ok... so could I just pass like a var that says 1 or 2 and have the method put in %petList if it gets a 1 or %petReq if it gets a 2? 17:09
PerlJam cbk_: or just move the declaration for %petList and %petReq to be outside of the class definition. 17:10
cbk_ There has to be more eloquent way to do that, right? 17:11
or I could do that i guess. I was trying to keep everything for the PetClass selfcontained inside the class only :(
PerlJam cbk_: well, if these are meant to be private data for the class, then you have it scoped correctly, and yes you should use some other mechanism for selecting the one you want to check. 17:12
cbk_: or you could just write two methods, one to check %petList and the other to check %petReq 17:13
cbk_ Ok I'll try it that way.... Thank you for your help. I'll probably be back in an hr or so :)
PerlJam cbk_: though, I'm curious why you would try to write an abstraction for this rather than just use perl's built-in mechanisms to do this. 17:14
I mean, checkList() is just a wrapper around %hash.exists($key), so why not juse use %hash.exists($key)? 17:15
(a very thin wrapper)
cbk_ Well that could only be because... I did know you could do that... 17:16
PerlJam but I guess you'd still end up with two methods to your PetList object for asking about each individual list
cbk_ Yah thats why I did it! :) 17:17
I'll just try the two methods and/or a more complated checkList method.... 17:18
PerlJam, Thanks
cbk_ can I do this with an "if" statement because I'm getting an: "Could not find non-existent sub if" error 18:05
if $listObj.checkList1($pet) { ... }
or do have to do it like this.. if ($listObj.checkList1($pet)) {...}
Tene cbk_: are you sure you have a space between 'if' and the ()s? 18:07
cbk_ Tene: i don't have the () 18:08
's yet
I'll try that.
Tene cbk_: you shouldn't be getting that error... can you post the code?
cbk_ ok
Tene, ok it is here: paste.lisp.org/display/83387 18:10
Tene and which line gives the error? 18:11
Su-Shee can I do use GrammarA in grammar GrammarB and extend GrammarB with GrammarA that way? 18:12
Tene Su-Shee: the standard way to do it is with inheritance: grammar GrammarA is GrammarB { ... }
cbk_ does not say. I think it is inside the main loop on the first if that I use
Su-Shee Tene: ah, that plain and simple..
cbk_ I put in a say 'check point' before it and it didn't come up? 18:13
PerlJam cbk_: I'd guess it's your "else if{ ... }" that's really the problem.
Tene ckoh, I see it... 18:14
cbk_: you have ;s after your if ()s
so there's no block, so it parses as a sub instead of a control
M_o_C [17:09:57] <M_o_C> you don't have something like smolder for make spectest, do you?
Tene if (%petList...);
PerlJam Tene++ good eye
Tene cbk_: also, Perl 6 doesn't have a form like that... if you want a one-line without {}s, you have to put the if after the statement: 18:15
return if %petList.exists($pet);
or
ir ... { return }
s/ir/ior/
ARGH typing fail. :(
cbk_ :)
ok
brb
thanks... 18:16
ok i got it. It now looks like this: if %petList.exists($pet){return;} 18:21
thanks!
TimToady um, that's also wrong 18:38
std: if %petList.exists($pet){return;} 18:39
p6eval std 27501: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Missing block (apparently gobbled by undeclared routine?) at /tmp/YxGVr4XsYf line 2:␤------> ;␤ expecting any of:␤ parameterized block␤ standard stopper␤ terminator␤ whitespace␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Variable $pet is
..not predeclare…
rindolf Hi all. 18:41
I'm going to add another Perl 6-related answer to the #perl FAq.
About whether it is worthwhile to learn Perl 5 despite the fact that Perl 6 is so different. 18:42
mofino i wouldn't even raise the issue
the mere fact people think there is another version, they will ignore the current one 18:43
rindolf mofino: someone asked it on #perl today. 18:44
It was the third time already.
This needs to be answered.
mofino :/
sbp rindolf: note that I'm trying to learn perl6 with hardly any knowledge of perl5, and trying quite deliberately to maintain that. so far I'm finding it not too difficult, though there are occasional problems 18:45
so from the "is it even possible?" standpoint, I'd say "yes, with a but"
presumably that but will disappear as perl6 gets better documented and more developed
Su-Shee and I don't find perl 6 not being perl anymore. but I'm certainly not argueing about that. 18:46
PerlJam sbp: and as implementations mature
sbp (nothing against perl5, by the way! just don't plan to use it) 18:46
so many languages to learn 18:47
PerlJam sbp: at some point it's just syntax.
mofino my mistake, i'm being silly, there are incredible reasons to use perl5 despite perl6 being present
sbp you learn Hindi, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Italian, German, and someone is still bound to ask you why you didn't learn French...
mofino maturity being a core reason
lucs Pourquoi, hein, pourquoi!? 18:48
sbp what are you even saying! :-)
PerlJam mofino: are you saying perl6 programmers are more mature than perl5 programmers? ;)
Su-Shee rindolf: you all don't like perl 6 anyway - so why adressing it? ;)
mofino :)
Su-Shee PerlJam: well definetely less alpha male.
rindolf Su-Shee: some of us like Perl 6.
mofino really, perl5 and 6 will coexist for a very long time will they not? 18:49
Su-Shee rindolf: the ones remaining silent or the ones drowing in the chorus of the ones not liking it? :)
mofino perl* is all that matters 18:50
start with the rock that is perl5, and hop to the next rock that will be perl6 in some time
PerlJam Su-Shee: The ones not liking perl 6 are oddly cozy with Moose, Devel::Declare, perl 5.10 and other technologies that are making Perl 5 more and more like Perl 6
Su-Shee mofino: well obviously perl 6 is not perl, I learned today. :)
huf it's worse than that i think 18:51
PerlJam Su-Shee: depends on who you talk to.
mofino that just sounds wrong
huf i suspect that perl6 has been taken over by the "evil jews" :D
PerlJam Su-Shee: in here, "Perl" means "Perl 6"
mofino the spirit of perl remains
syntax is just taste
sbp yeah. perl6 is certainly perl, according to the Synopses
Su-Shee PerlJam: I personally totally dig perl 5 and perl 6 and I think Perl 6 is extremely smooth to code and will be a very sexy language.
PerlJam: that's why I flew here.
huf mofino: arent you the unreliable traitors that abandoned perl5? :D 18:52
mofino oh god no
huf at least that's the vibe i'm getting from some people on #perl ;)
mofino most certainly not me 18:53
perl5 shaped my very technical existence, maybe that'
that's good or bad, heh
huf i just hope the entire perl universe doesnt fragment itself to death. i'm scared even thinking about it
Su-Shee huf: and why shouldn't they..
PerlJam huf: there will always be naysayers and doomsdayers. 18:54
rindolf perl.net.au/wiki/Freenode_Sharp_Per...e_ready.3F 18:56
mofino sweet 18:57
Su-Shee biased.
mofino hehe
rindolf Su-Shee: biased? 18:58
Su-Shee: it's the #perl FAQ, BTW.
Not the #perl6 FAQ.
mofino "Furthermore, if you don't know Perl, you are probably lacking essential programming education" ..
that could be a bit much
from here: perl.net.au/wiki/Why_Learn_Perl 18:59
Su-Shee rindolf: and what are you going to do when the time comes, when people simply use Perl 6, think of it as "that's Perl" and join #perl? 19:00
mofino adapt?
PerlJam Su-Shee: it's a wiki. 19:02
Su-Shee PerlJam: If I wish a social death, I'll edit #perl's wiki in favor of Perl 6. :) 19:04
rindolf Su-Shee: when the time comes, we will update the page.
Su-Shee: but one bird in the hand is better than two in the tree.
Su-Shee rindolf: I didn't get that? 19:05
rindolf Su-Shee: we need to answer the question now.
Su-Shee: naturally, it will grow out-of-date. 19:06
rindolf Su-Shee: when it does, we'll update it. 19:06
Su-Shee rindolf: I have nothing against answering it.
rindolf Su-Shee: then what is your issue with it? 19:08
I now wrote this too - perl.net.au/wiki/Freenode_Sharp_Per..._Perl_5.3F 19:09
sbp rindolf: I don't understand this 19:10
why should one learn perl5?
I've gotten by fine without it 19:11
huf because it's fucking awesome.
rindolf sbp: don't you know a different dynamic scripting language?
huf but go ahead and deprive yourself from a ton of joy
Su-Shee (and this is _exactly_ why I stopped saying anything..) 19:12
huf ... or is that "deprive of"?
sbp hmm, whether I know any other language isn't really relevant
rindolf huf: deprive of
sbp: well, people keep asking us "Perl 6 is going to be so different. Is it still worthwhile to learn Perl 5?" 19:13
sbp do they really ask that?
rindolf So I'm answering them.
sbp: yes.
On #perl
It happened at least three time.
Probably more.
huf but that's kinda like "i already know javascript. why should i care about java?"
sbp yeah, that doesn't make sense to me, as a question to ask
I can imagine asking: is perl6 ready, and does it have features I might be able to use to my benefit? 19:14
and I can imagine the answer might be "probably not ready enough for you, but some of these things you seek might be in its predecessor"
huf i can imagine not asking anything much because all of these are already answered in some faq or blogpost
and it's just a google away ;)
rindolf sbp: well, people ask this question, and I don't have a problem understanding why they do. 19:15
I think calling Perl 6 "*Perl* 6" was a mistake.
Although they probably could not have told in advance, when the Perl 6 process started.
Su-Shee rindolf: yes. I think you made this pretty clear today. ;) 19:16
rindolf Because Perl 6 is so radically different than Perl 5.
sbp I think what I'm trying to say is that there are loads of reasons why learning a language might be worthwhile: you might have to learn it for work purposes, or it might increase your hireability, or be an interesting mental exercise, or help you pull chicks
Su-Shee rindolf: it isn't. it's visibly and in the spirit still perl.
rindolf Su-Shee: Perl 6 is very different than Perl 5.
sbp so "is it worthwhile to learn perl5?" can only be answered by another question: "what are your circumstances?" — maybe it is worth it, maybe it's not. and if the context is "should I learn perl6 or perl5?", then that is something which might inform the circumstances 19:17
Su-Shee rindolf: I don't agree.
rindolf Su-Shee: almost everything is different.
You say @myarray[3] instead of $myarray[3]
And @myarray[*-1] instead of $myarray[-1]
Su-Shee rindolf: thank you, rindolf, I do write code in both Perls.
rindolf Su-Shee: yes. 19:18
<applied-quote>Perl 6 is going to be a wonderful language. Too bad it won't be Perl.</applied-quote>
And you use ~ instead of . 19:19
And . instead of ->
Su-Shee rindolf: Ah yes. I have to agree with any existing quote.
rindolf Su-Shee: it was originally said on Fortan '90.
lucs I suspect that someone who had never seen Perl 6, but knew Perl 5 and any number of other languages, would, when shown Perl 6 code, think that it looks like Perl more than like anything else.
rindolf "Nice language. Too bad it's not Fortran." 19:19
lucs: maybe.
pugs_svn r27502 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Test for RT #61108 19:37
tann rakudo: #[ blah ] say "hah!" 20:36
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«Can't use embedded columns in column 1 at line 2, near "[ blah ] s"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
[particle] s/columns/comments/ i think 21:00
unitxt Hi, I am trying to build Rakudo but it's failing. My guess is that it has something to do with my version of gcc. Here is some of the output: paste.lisp.org/display/83399 22:35
pugs_svn r27503 | lwall++ | [S03] Reduce power of Pair.ACCEPTS to work only on booleans, moritz++ 23:12
r27503 | lwall++ | (but we keep the pair forms for ease-of-use via switches and junctions
r27503 | lwall++ | as well as for "doesn't look like anything else" readability).
r27503 | lwall++ | Specify that numeric comparisons must use the method forms (except for == 0).
r27503 | lwall++ | Filetest methods and pair matching no longer work on Str.
r27503 | lwall++ | (They do, however work on IO, Statbuf, and will presumably work extensibly
r27503 | lwall++ | on any other resource handles we care to define in the future.)
tann rakudo: my @a; say @a ?? "y" !! "n" 23:41
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«n␤»
tann rakudo: my @a; say @a ~~ [] 23:42
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«1␤»
tann rakudo: my @a; say @a ~~ [] ?? 'y' !! 'n'
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«y␤»
tann rakudo: my @a; say @a ~~ [0] ?? 'y' !! 'n' 23:43
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«n␤»
tann rakudo: my @a; say @a.shape 23:46
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«Method 'shape' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Array'␤»
tann rakudo: my @; say @a.elems 23:47
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 2, near "@; say @a."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
tann rakudo: my @a; say @a.elems;
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«0␤»
cbk_ tann, so i can say perl 6 code to p6eval and it will tell me if it is correct? 23:49
tann you prepend 'rakudo:' to the code 23:50
so rakudo will run the code
literal to just do a syntax check, you can use "std: "
lambdabot literal: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
literal lambdabot: @messages
lambdabot azawawi said 1d 11h 44m 14s ago: any pending grok update soon?
azawawi said 21h 5m 38s ago: I took the liberty of extending grok (at runtime) in my Padre Perl 6 plugin to support more help from Perl foundation wikis, padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/
5994
cbk_ cool!
tann not sure if pugs works
pugs: say "yup"
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«yup␤»
tann oh it does 23:51
cbk_ well I'm using rakudo anyways.
tann pugs: say [*} 1..10
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "[*}"␤ expecting bare or pointy block construct, ":", identifier or operator␤ at /tmp/FuIZw8qDFu line 1, column 5␤»
tann rakudo: say [*] 1..10
p6eval rakudo 02d0ed: OUTPUT«3628800␤»
tann std: 1,1..Inf &[+] 23:52
p6eval std 27503: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
tann std: 1,1...Inf &[+] 23:53
TimToady note, that's probably parsing much differently than you think...
p6eval std 27503: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
TimToady since you've got & in infix position
so you've got Inf & [+] 23:54
which evaluates to Inf & 0, since [+] has no arguments
which autothreads the ... over Inf and 0
tann urhhh
trick..trick 23:55
TimToady the right side of ... never takes Inf
cbk_ p6eval and std are SO cool! I can open a private dialog and test my code without begin embarrassed on how bad my perl knowledge is.
tann cbk_: especially, you're under timtoady's watchful eye, you're in good hands 23:56
TimToady but I'm so mean
tann all hail gandalf 23:57
cbk_ tann, never mind, p6eval just made me feel like crap anyways. 23:58
tann cbk_: how so? 23:59
#perl6 is the land of joy

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