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Set by wolfe.freenode.net on 30 October 2009.
diakopter is everyone ready to update their systems for the Gulfo? 00:13
pmurias Gulfo?
diakopter www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...emony.html
wallstreetpit.com/12983-gulf-states...e-currency 00:14
arnsholt Very interesting Telegraph article 00:19
But their points about there being many potential hurdles are very valid 00:20
carlin phenny: tell masak using Astaire, is it possible to do a regex-based dispatch and access the capture? Something like: get '/foo/(\w*)' { # Do something with the value of \w* here } 01:20
OHNOES No phenny :( 01:21
colomon Tene: ping 01:42
colomon is furiously trying to get an Advent post ready ASAP.... 01:57
ash___ whats yours on colomon? 02:00
colomon Mandelbrot sets (in perl 6) 02:01
It's supposed to be for Monday, but I had it half done already.
ash___ what are mandelbrot sets exactly? I am unfamiliar with that term 02:03
colomon en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set 02:07
ash___ this might be a dumb question, how do you do include methods from a namespace into the current namespace? eg. Foo::method so you can just do method(); 02:08
ash___ oh, i have seen those before, that should be interesting 02:08
pmichaud ash___: import Foo <method>; is the current formulation, I believe.
JimmyZ ng: 3.14.Rat.say
p6eval ng 2b5816: 3.14␤
JimmyZ ng: 3.14.perl.say 02:09
p6eval ng 2b5816: 157/50␤
JimmyZ rakudo: 3.14.perl.say; 3.14.Rat.say;
p6eval rakudo 1d44f4: 3.14␤3.14␤
ash___ thanks pmichaud, i'll look up the import method 02:10
Tene So, I just remembered that I'm supposed to have a p6advent post up. 02:12
I know what the outline is, just need to write it up, but it might be a bit.
Depends on internet access at where I end up next. 02:13
pmichaud Tene: what were you planning for the outline ? 02:14
Tene colomon: pong
colomon Tene: there you are! 02:15
I'll have my mandelbrot set post ready to go in about ten minutes if you'd like to run that instead tonight and have an extra day to finish yours.
pmichaud or we could quickly finish up the Whatever post that is currently set to run on the 22nd
Tene I'll leave that up to anyone but me. :) 02:16
wayland76 I hope they come up with an exciting new glyph
Tene I'll be maybe an hour, maybe more. I'll get it up tonight sometime, though. 02:17
wayland76 (sorry, that was in reference to the Gulfo :) )
pmichaud colomon: what's your opinion? wait for tene's post, go with your mandelbrot post, or go with the whatever post?
Tene So, just leave me a message saying when to post it. I was going to talk about grammars and actions.
colomon I forgot about the whatever post. Does it need polishing at all? 02:18
pmichaud a slight bit, but I can probably have it ready in 30 or less
colomon Hmmm... mine will be done in a second too. lots to choose from... 02:19
pmichaud colomon: I say we go with yours then, if you're ready for it.
colomon works for me. I'll have it ready for whoever's handy to proofread it in a minute. 02:20
pmichaud I'm handy
Tene -- we'll move you to another date
Tene: that way you can be a little less rushed... especially since grammars and actions takes a bit of explanation :)
Tene I'm swapping with colomon? Tomorrow?
pmichaud or with Moritz if you want
Tene Okay, great.
pmichaud i.e., we can move the Whatever post to tomorrow and you can have the 22nd 02:21
oh, wait, jnthn++ is currently tomorrow
anyway, if you just get it drafted, someone else can take care of the date :-)
Tene Sorry, everything has been rushed lately. 02:22
pmichaud np
ash___ are trait_mod's exportable? they should be right?
rakudo: multi trait_mod:<is>(AttributeDeclarand $a, Str, $type, %args = {}) { }; 02:23
p6eval rakudo 1d44f4: ( no output )
ash___ rakudo: multi trait_mod:<is>(AttributeDeclarand $a, Str, $type, %args = {}) is export { }
p6eval rakudo 1d44f4: ( no output )
ash___ hmmm on my computer that gave me: No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:is'
colomon Okay, my full draft is up. 02:24
(as a draft, I mean)
Seems coherent to me, I'm going to go ahead and post it and if anyone else finds issues will fix them on the fly. 02:26
zaslon lolperl6adventhazblogged! perl6advent++ 'Day 17: Making Snowmen': perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/1...g-snowmen/ 02:27
pmichaud "line 3 sets $height code" ... should "code" be there? 02:29
colomon nope, good call. 02:29
(fixed) 02:30
pmichaud oh, outstanding post 02:31
colomon thank you (blush) 02:32
pmichaud colomon++
out of curiosity, how slow is "slow" here?
(I'm sure that question will come up)
colomon Timing a 31x31 right now.... 02:33
I've got to say, right now today I have a deep, deep love of Perl 6 as a language... 02:34
... but I will be very happy the day it runs a *lot* faster. :)
31x31 image takes 1 minute 19 sections on my MacBook Pro.
pmichaud Tene: You currently have Dec 21 02:35
Tene: feel free to write the draft early though -- it's always good to have the drafts ready to go a couple of days in advance
colomon Actually, this mandelbrot script would probably be a good candidate for the benchmark suite someone (PerlJam?) mentioned earlier today. Perl 5 has a complex module, right? 02:45
pmichaud 89 seconds. not too great, but could be worse. 02:59
if the mandelbrot example isn't already in perl6-examples, it ought to be :)
colomon For one that small, should probably be more like 1 second, I'd think. :) 03:00
where is perl6-examples in the directory tree?
pmichaud perl6-examples is a separate repo, iirc
colomon oh, on github?
pmichaud github.com/perl6/perl6-examples, iirc
colomon got it. I need to get to bed now, will try to sort things out in the morning. :) 03:02
ash___ does github.com/ashgti/Endure/blob/maste...ure.pm#L11 look wrong? to anyone? what I am doing anyway 03:05
ash___ something seems wrong with is export 03:06
dalek p-rx: c9be3ee | pmichaud++ | (4 files):
Update bootstrap files, PARROT_REVISION.
 03:26
p-rx: 503f76f | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
Merge branch 'master' of [email@hidden.address]
p-rx: 88757e9 | pmichaud++ | (2 files):
Fix bug when protoregex is called directly from Grammar.parse (Coke++)
p-rx: ac7c519 | pmichaud++ | src/stage0/ (4 files):
Update bootstrap with protoregex fail fix.
dalek kudo/master: d2dc84c | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
Bump PARROT_REVISION to latest release.
 03:31
kudo/master: 5cccc22 | pmichaud++ | (3 files):
Merge branch 'master' of [email@hidden.address]
kudo/master: 2198ecc | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2009-12:
Some more announcement updates.
Su-Shee good morning 07:15
JimmyZ Su-Shee: morning 07:18
moritz_ good morning 07:33
flip214 morning 07:36
moritz_ freenode seems to have stabilized again 08:58
mathw Good 09:09
All the netsplits were getting extremely annoying
frettled colomon++ - good blog entry again 09:14
colomon frettled: thank you.
mathw Okay we spoke too soon 09:17
masak colomon++ # advent blog post 09:26
masak carlin: re Astaire/captures: yes, that should be possible. that feature is perhaps a week away, though. I'm currently investigating how to make Astaire easier to deploy. 09:31
masak moritz_: instead of to-json accepting Array and Hash, why not List and Mapping? 10:37
moritz_ masak: might be better, yes
masak by the way, I'm a bit surprised that the Mapping type does not seem to have any basis in the spec.
moritz_ but if we go that way, why not Positional and Associative? 10:38
ah, I remember why
masak might be even better.
moritz_ because match objects do both
but then again JSON can't serialize them anyway
masak you bring up a good point. 10:39
sending in a Match object would create a multi conflict.
it seems to me that one could solve it by adding one more multi variant, though... 10:40
one that does both roles.
by the way, can I just go ahead and remove REJECTS from the spec?
moritz_ please do
we seemed to have fairly uniform agreement that it's redundant 10:41
masak aye. 10:43
flip214 I've got a question about S03, reduce() ... 10:49
anyone feels able to answer?
mathw Ask and we'll try...
flip214 > If fewer than two arguments are given, a dispatch is still attempted 10:50
> with whatever arguments are given ... blablabla
> However, the zero argument case cannot be defined this way, since there 10:51
> is no type information to dispatch on.
and so on and on
Why not have something like that: sub A(Str @a where { @a == 0}) { ... };
That should match for empty arrays, shouldn't it? 10:52
But only empty Str arrays, so the type is fixed
moritz_ but that's not the zero-argument case
an empty array is still an argument 10:53
flip214 Yes, I know ....
but typically you won't write ().reduce
but @arr.reduce
and if the type of the @arr elements is known, this should work, shouldn't it?
Just as a way of solving the ambiguity of "no elements" 10:54
moritz_ I don't know if typed arrays are common enough to warrant such an extra mechanism 10:57
masak flip214: @arr would need to be typed as an Array of Str (or whatever). not sure how common that'll be in practice.
heh. what moritz_ said. :)
moritz_ especially since a mechanism has to exists for the common case too (even if it's not that polished) 10:58
flip214 For the non-common case, with arbitrary classes, that might work - Array of Window or something like that.
and for the common case, like Str and Num, there are already "defaults" defined - [+]=>0 and [*]=>1 10:59
masak I'll be gone for a few hours. big department Christmas Lunch, also known as Free Food! \o/
wayland76 Free food! End the injustice! :) 11:05
jnthn oh morning 11:26
mathw oh hai jnthn 11:28
jnthn dusts off the roles/does patch he was working on and tries to get it into shape 11:32
(REJECTS) - no, don't remove that from the spec! 11:38
Otherwise things that can fail fast - if failing to match is what we're intereted in - don't get that info.
AFAIK, one thing Perl 5 regex are good at is being able to fail to match quickly when a match is jus tnot possible. 11:39
I guess we could find another way to funnel that info through, but I thought that was the intention of REJECTS. 11:40
(Of course, the default is !ACCEPTS)
wayland76 phenny, tell masak jnthn wants REJECTS back again 11:41
phenny wayland76: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
jnthn :-) 11:48
mathw applauds 11:53
That's a good reason to keep it
frettled But what if masak REJECTS that notion? :D 11:58
jnthn If his arguments are good, I may ACCEPT them. ;-)
frettled hee-hee 12:00
jnthn ooh...I haz an advent post to write too. 12:04
frettled You can haz advil post! 12:07
(cf. today's Pearls for Swine)
jnthn
.oO( Perl for Swine! Bring home the bacon using Perl today! )
 12:08
frettled \o/
jnthn moans at Lenovo for still not delivering him shiny new hardware
Juerd I had to wait a few months for my shiny new X200s 12:20
Order placed sept. 3, received nov. 23.
frettled heh
jnthn OUCH. 12:21
They said 1-2 weeks.
frettled They didn't say which weeks, though.
Juerd So they did for my laptop.
jnthn It's useless if they take that long, I won't even be in the UK that long.
moritz_ call them
jnthn Meh. I've told them if it ain't here by next week, I cancel.
Juerd What did you order if I may ask?
jnthn *sigh*
frettled Juerd: naughty, naughty :) 12:22
Juerd frettled: ?
frettled Juerd: he ordered an empty promise, apparently :( 12:23
jnthn Just a T400...nothing too shiny. :-)
Juerd Oooh
jnthn Extra RAM, turbocache thing (thought I might get faster compiles ;-))
Juerd Unless you've picked an uncommon configuration, it should be stocked just about everywhere
Ah, there you go.
jnthn Heh, I'd have passed on those to have it in a decent timeframe. :-/ 12:24
Compiling Rakudo on this slow thing...
frettled jnthn: mm, you could've ordered it just with extra RAM, and then bought an Intel X25-M MkII instead of that «turbocache» thing.
…unless it voids your warranty to replace your harddrive. 12:25
Juerd It doesn't
Lenovo says harddrives are user serviceable
frettled yay 12:26
Juerd Everything that can be removed by removing marked screws (those that have a little symbol next to them) you can exchange yourself without voiding warranty
frettled And Windows 7, which I presume will be used, is TRIM aware.
Juerd: nice
Juerd Of course, you are voiding the warranty of the system as the whole that included the original parts 12:27
That is: if you separate parts, warranty is separated too.
frettled ah
takadonet morning all 13:08
moritz_ \o 13:13
colomon o/ 13:14
moritz_ did somebody tweet today's advent post? 13:17
seems like not
hugme: tweet rakudoperl Perl 6 Advent Calender day 17: Making Snowmen perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/1...g-snowmen/ 13:18
hugme hugs moritz_; tweet delivered
dalek kudo/ng: 4b30d13 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
Re-work the PIR role creation helper to work in terms of the meta-model, rip out old attribute composition routine and mark the punner as needing a re-write.
 13:20
kudo/ng: e8571af | jnthn++ | src/builtins/Bool.pir:
Re-work the way Bool handles doing Abstraction to not require a runtime mix-in.
kudo/ng: 876f7f8 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Compiler/Signature.pm:
Temporarily disable sigil role checks in sigs.
kudo/ng: 928dc41 | jnthn++ | src/ (5 files):
Re-implement does completely in terms of the metamodel, not relying on Parrot's underlying primitives.
jnthn colomon: Awesome post - just read it. :-) 13:21
colomon: BTW, patches that just landed sort of clear up the ~~ Positional issues. Almost...
colomon \o/ 13:22
and thank you. 13:23
jnthn Was a...tricky...patch to write. Not helped by me making a typo deep within it that took half an hour to find today. 13:24
masak phenny: I've read it, but thanks. 13:25
phenny masak: 11:41Z <wayland76> tell masak jnthn wants REJECTS back again
masak jnthn: I don't understand. could you show with a code sample what you mean? 13:26
jnthn masak: $foo ~~ X calls X.ACCEPTS($foo) 13:27
masak: $foo !~~ X calls X.REJECTS($foo)
masak nod.
jnthn: couldn't you fail fast in an ACCEPTS method just as well? 13:28
jnthn masak: This was spec'd to behave differently from just a bog standard "do the thing and not the result" becuase sometimes you may be able to fail the smartmatch very quickly, if you know it's a negative result that is desired.
masak: "how quickly can I say yes" and "how quickly can I say no" may call for a different approach. 13:29
masak jnthn: this is all very theoretical.
jnthn: do you have an example?
I understand what you're saying, but I don't see an actual case where it matters.
jnthn masak: I don't off hand. I have had conversations with some Perl 5 regex guy (forget who) and seem to recall that the "knowing when we can't match" is one thing Perl 5 does well. But I won't pretend to understand exactly how that works. :-) 13:30
masak and even if there is such a case, I don't see why an ACCEPTS method would be worse at failing things quickly than a REJECTS method would be.
jnthn masak: Possibly. I just think it was spec'd for a reason and with some use case in mind. 13:31
masak sending !~~ and ~~ along different codepaths, just because we think it might be a good idea, seems like a prime example of premature optimization to me.
extra API complexity calls for correspondingly solid use cases :) 13:32
jnthn Well, ~~ and !~~ already dispatch differently to other operators anyways.
I agree that it'd be good to see a more concrete use case.
I just wanted to bring up the "why I think it was designed that way". 13:33
masak jnthn: yes, because right now it's "don't kill REJECTS, it might conceivably be a good idea for some nebulous reason"
masak sorry if I come off as dismissive; I want to provoke you (or someone) to come up with such a use case. ;-) 13:34
jnthn masak: I'm not the person who can come up with a regex one, for sure - I just suspect there may be @other who can. :-) 13:35
masak: Anyway, we'll see what comes of it.
masak I know Haskell has something similar; one == and one /= operator, each defined in terms of the other by default, but overridable.
jnthn masak: If nobody can chip in a more concrete use case, I guess it can die. :-)
masak we'll give it some time. git-svn can revert if need be. 13:36
frettled :)
moritz_ note that $str !~~ /regex/ is also supposed to return a Match object 13:39
so in that case you don't win anything by REJECTS
colomon ng: my @a = 1...5; pop(@a); say @a.perl; 13:49
p6eval ng 928dc4: (1, 2, 3, 4)␤
colomon ng: my @a = 1...5; pop @a; say @a.perl
p6eval ng 928dc4: (1, 2, 3, 4)␤
colomon is(pop @pop, 3, 'inline pop @pop works') 13:54
should that test work?
It looks like ng is picking up the 3 and 'inline pop @pop works' as arguments to pop...
moritz_ it should be 13:55
is pop(@pop, 3), '...';
pop can't do magic :-)
colomon so how does it work in master?
(and it should be is (pop @pop), 3, '...'; right?) 13:56
moritz_ erm, right 13:58
maybe it defines pop as a prefix, not a listop?
masak moritz_: I guess if the optimizer noted that the Match object is never used as anything except as a Bool, it might do any manner of tricks with not collecting all capture information etc.
colomon next test which dies is pop(@pop) ~~ Failure -- is that still right? 13:59
"Could not find non-existent sub &Failure" 14:00
masak I'd do !degined or something instead...
s/g/f/
colomon It does that too -- first tests !defined, then ~~ Failure.
moritz_ IMHO it should just return Nil 14:01
colomon ng doesn't even know the meaning of the word "Failure"! 14:02
masak that's the spirit!
:)
PerlJam colomon: so you mean Failure is not an option? 14:04
colomon PerlJam: exactly.
moritz_: "If @array is empty returns a failure." 14:05
but we could always change the spec, the tests, and the code. :) 14:06
PerlJam So ... any ideas for what I should post to day 20 of the Perl 6 Advent calendar? Initially I was thinking of a post with more detail on grammars and such, but I'm not wedded to that. Anyone have any other ideas of something they'd like to see?
dalek kudo/master: b01665b | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
spectest-progress.csv update: 449 files, 32192 (86.1% of 37376) pass

primarily represent changes to the spectest suite as opposed to regressions.		 14:07
kudo/master: 39685ac | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2009-12:
More documentation updates.
moritz_ PerlJam: I'd love to see something the automagic sort
PerlJam: that passing an arity-1 block sorts by the transformation result, but returns the original 14:08
PerlJam moritz_: oh, that's an excellent one!
moritz_ www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=809530 for inspiration
jnthn Mention min and max having that property too.
PerlJam yep 14:09
jnthn my $cheapest = @products.min(*.price) # is so cute
moritz_ rakudo: say (2, 3, 5, -1).min
p6eval rakudo 2198ec: -1␤
jnthn wonders if the dog really wants to be taken for a walk in gale force winds...
moritz_ rakudo: say (2, 3, 5, -3).min(*.abs)
colomon jnthn: of course he does! 14:10
p6eval rakudo 2198ec: 2␤
jnthn oh wow, it just started snowing too!
PerlJam IT would be nice if that Whatever post made it out there too.
colomon The Whatever post still needs a bit of work, but absolutely agreed, it needs to get out there. 14:11
(Unless someone finished it since I looked at it last night.) 14:12
PerlJam Oh, it's still slated for Dec 22
colomon But it can get moved around if needed. 14:13
seems like it should go before the above examples.
moritz_ tonight or tomorrow I can find the tuits to brush it up a bit
colomon and the above examples are so cool it would be a shame not to use them. :)
moritz_ PerlJam: so should we switch days?
PerlJam moritz_: thinking about it. But let me cobble something together today first and see how that goes :) 14:14
moritz_ PerlJam: sure, no hurry
pmichaud I brushed up whatever a bit last night. 14:22
mathw I need to check when my next day is 14:23
if It's when I think it is, I might nto have time to write it :(
colomon mathw: then you could trade with day 22 whatever... :)
moritz_ wfm 14:24
pmichaud mathw: you're up for Dec 19 14:25
PerlJam mathw: Dec 19 looks like
mathw argh
no, I don't have time to write that
I've been landed with another deadline for some stuff I actually get paid for, so...
moritz_ mathw: so switch with 22nd?
mathw That would be good
Hopefully I can then write it on Sunday evening
pmichaud jnthn: will you be able to get your Dec 18 post in? 14:26
colomon ng: my @a = (); say @a.elems 14:29
p6eval ng 928dc4: 1␤
pmichaud ng: my @a; say @a.elems 14:31
p6eval ng 928dc4: 0␤
pmichaud ng: my @a = 1,2,3; say @a.elems
p6eval ng 928dc4: 3␤
pmichaud looks like something isn't flattening properly.
jnthn pmichaud: Oh wait, is it tomorrow, not today? 14:32
OH
pmichaud ng: my @a = ( (), 1, (1,2), 3); say @a.elems
p6eval ng 928dc4: 4␤
jnthn Yes, but needs finishing by the end of today :-)
pmichaud jnthn: correct. :)
jnthn I can do it.
pmichaud jnthn++
jnthn I'm happy to swap too.
But either works for me. 14:33
pmichaud I might write up a draft of a post so we have another extra one in queue :)
jnthn I've got the next couple of hours free, so can work on it.
masak colomon: your 'Making Snowmen' post was appropriately timed -- many places in Europe got snow today. :) 14:41
colomon Is dalek down? anyway, end implemented and three more spectests up and running in ng.
jnthn colomon++ 14:42
colomon jnthn++ # for making the ng changes that would let those work! 14:43
dalek kudo/ng: 8865562 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on pop.t and shift.t.
 14:44
kudo/ng: b9eec4a | (Solomon Foster)++ | (2 files):
Implement end and turn on end.t.
colomon there they are. :)
cj moritz_: ping? 14:45
moritz_ cj: pong 14:45
cj moritz_: will you help me with my internets?
wp.colliertech.org/ilbot/index.pl
moritz_ you need database.conf in the same dir as index.pl 14:46
cj moritz_: oh, I see ;)
that seems to have done it 14:47
moritz_: also depends on Bot::BasicBot
v0.81 14:48
moritz_ cj: note that you'll need the cgi/.htaccess file, which currently assumes that it runs on a virtual host on its own 14:49
cj: ie that the base url is / and not /ilbot/ - no idea if it works the way you do it 14:50
cj moritz_: okay. I'll set up the virtualhost
moritz_ cj: when you're all done please notify me, I'd like to have an overview of how many sites use ilbot 14:54
cj roger
moritz_: do you have the bot start with init scripts? 14:56
colomon Is it safe to presume ng doesn't have array slices yet? 14:58
moritz_ cj: no, I just don't restart the machine it runs on :-) 14:59
ng: my @a = 1, 2, 3 4; say @a[2, 0]
p6eval ng b9eec4: Confused at line 1, near "my @a = 1,"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
moritz_ ng: my @a = 1, 2, 3 4; say @a[2]
p6eval ng b9eec4: Confused at line 1, near "my @a = 1,"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
moritz_ ng: my @a = (1, 2, 3 4); say @a[2, 0]
p6eval ng b9eec4: Confused at line 1, near "my @a = (1"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
cj moritz_: ha. except when you do.
moritz_ cj: right. Then I start a screen session, and in screen I start the logging bot 15:00
cj moritz_: okay. that's what I'm doing, too.
cj karma.colliertech.org/~cjac/tmp/isurvived.png 15:03
cj speaking of grammar panic 15:03
frettled ng: my @a=1,2,3; say @a[2] 15:05
p6eval ng b9eec4: 3␤
frettled ng: my @a=1,2,3 4; say @a[2]
p6eval ng b9eec4: Confused at line 1, near "my @a=1,2,"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
masak cj: what's "Ling 566"? 15:13
oh, bet it's a course. 15:14
cj: I may be either blissfully naive or damaged beyond saving, but that kind of structure looks kinda fun. :) 15:15
PerlJam votes irrepairably damaged :-) 15:16
masak I definitely wouldn't rule it out :)
I've been dabbling in parsers lately, and the output from them looks something like that. 15:17
a tree of objects carrying structured information about a flat string.
PerlJam heh ... I just searched for something with google and was mildly shocked to see the Perl 6 Advent calendar in the results. 15:19
masak it's the shock of realizing that we have contact points with the Real World. :P 15:21
masak hides
PerlJam Yes, we need to make sure that Perl 6 doesn't get an echo chamber like Perl 5 15:22
frettled PerlJam: But how do we exclude experts-exchange.com, then? :D
masak PerlJam: Perl 6 has an echo chamber, no question.
cj masak: we're in the same course. I enjoyed it ;) 15:23
jnthn frettled: That site was at least funny before they inserted the hyphen...
frettled jnthn: yeah 15:25
jnthn No it's not funny and not a useful search result. :-/ 15:25
*Now
masak PerlJam: and the echo chamber needs to be there, because in the Mean Old World out there, Perl 6 doesn't exist, has missed the boat, and has a logo for 5-year-old girls.
cj moritz_: ilbot.colliertech.org/ 15:26
masak: what parser are you using? We'll be using an HPSG parser next quarter 15:27
logo for 5-year-old girls!? I'll show mine! 15:28
masak cj: I'm not in any course; just generally interested in linguistics.
cj but quick! she'll be 6 next month!
masak: right, but you said you've dabbled... in what? :)
masak cj: I'm currently porting Parrot's PGE to Perl 6.
cj moritz_: is this supposed to be real-time? 15:29
PGE?
moritz_ cj: when you reload, new lines should show up immediately
masak cj: it's the parser underlying PCT, which drives e.g. Rakudo.
masak cj: github.com/masak/gge 15:30
cj moritz_: hurm... no go.
moritz_: is there a friendly way to debug why the entries aren't making it to the database or wherever the cgi finds them? 15:31
moritz_ it's not a chat. It's a logging page
cj: depends on your idea of "friendly" :-) you can surely look into the database yourself to see if data arives there
cj: I'd also recommend to clean the cache in /tmp/FileCache/ periodically while you're testing 15:32
cj moritz_: yeah, but if you /msg #ubuntu-us-wa, shouldn't something show up? 15:33
moritz_ cj: if the bot is logging that channel, sure 15:34
moritz_ cj: sorry, got to go... feel free to /msg me further questions 15:35
jnthn keeps beavering away at his roles post, having finally thought of a decentish example :-) 15:37
cj roger 15:39
masak jnthn is a Busy Beaver... with only a small amount of bytes, he does a whole lot of work before stopping. :) 15:42
s/bytes/beers/ 15:43
jnthn I've never made that typo in the pub.
.oO( Can I have two bytes of ale? )
 15:44
cj yep... entries in the db
frettled jnthn: and if you did, would the publician notice? 15:46
jnthn frettled: Given it sounds so much like "pints"... :-)
frettled: Heh. Maybe I'll have to try it this evening. ;-) 15:47
frettled: If he does notice, I'll look a bit silly though.
frettled jnthn: Nevermind silly, try! :D 15:47
jnthn I guess the publican would thing I'd had a long night drinking, and have a word with me mother.
frettled woops, I wrote «publician», ahaha 15:49
jnthn I didn't even notice. ;-)
cj moritz_: also depends on Date::Simple
colomon "publican wood thing"? 15:50
;)
jnthn Is a republican a publican who re-invented themselves as a politician? 15:51
jnthn hides his irc so he can actually get his post written
frettled :) 15:55
[particle] don't highlight jnthn, he's busy.
Juerd jnthn is probably very good at ignoring highlights 15:56
How else could he even get any rakudo work done?
s/even/ever/ 15:57
ash___ do macro's work currently? 16:01
no, it seems not, 16:02
jnthn :-P 16:03
Don't worry, I finished my post anyway.
Just need to proof read and make it look pretty.
[particle] :P 16:04
masak maybe you should prof-read it, too, to give it the right lecture-like quality. 16:07
jnthn I'm not a prof...I don't have any white...oh, wait...
masak :D
ash___ is there a method that is called when a role is composed into an object? like a callback you can register on a role or something, so it knows when its composed 16:10
jnthn Nothing spec'd yet, but I guess such a hook would belong somewhere in the meta-role I guess. 16:11
oops, double guesse
:-)
dalek p-rx: 9652695 | pmichaud++ | (3 files):
Fix empty string in regexes (TT #1376, fperrad++).
 16:12
p-rx: 17492b7 | pmichaud++ | src/stage0/ (4 files):
Update bootstrap.
masak jnthn: isn't that what docs/metamodel.pod in ng talks about? 16:13
jnthn masak: Yes, that'd be the place that we'd spec such a thing. 16:13
I've saved the post as a draft, if anyone wants to review it. :-) 16:14
jnthn prof-reads too
oh damm, I accidentally wrote a pun into it... 16:15
cj jnthn: preview url? 16:16
jnthn cj: Not sure how to give you one, sorry... :-S
ash___ its wordpress right? you can't get a preview link until you post it
jnthn Ah 16:17
ash___ unless you have an account
jnthn Yeah, just folks with accounts then. :-)
ash___ with privilages high enough to view the post, then you'd need ot be logged in to view it
maybe i should explain what I am trying to do, to see if a role hook is the right way about it 16:19
pmichaud jnthn: looks good to me :) 16:21
afk, early lunch
ash___ i was toying with the idea of making a role based persistence api, so you can store an instance of an object to a file/db/memcahce/etc. but in order to build the storage container i'd need to know which properties of the object are supposed to be stored. to do that I was thinking of using a hook on the role that you'd add to the attributes you wanted to store. in the callback i would (hopefully) be able to tell the manager object th 16:22
properties of the object i needs to store and their types
cj jnthn: what's the url to your blog? I'll register
jnthn cj: It's just the perl6 advent calendar
perl6advent.wordpress.com/ 16:23
cj: Don't worry about it though, it doesn't need huge amounts of review. :-)
masak jnthn: great post! jnthn++
ash___ i like the use of the snowman in day 17 16:24
masak jnthn: in the DeliveryCalculation, look what an opportunity you have to use :$.mass and :$.dimensions
jnthn masak: Heh. Do those work? :-) 16:25
masak jnthn: yes!
jnthn masak: But yes, good point...
masak: ooh.
masak nice, innit?
jnthn masak: Hmm...but do they distract from the explanation?
masak: oh, it's op der wiv da awesome!
masak I don't think so. 16:26
jnthn masak: OK, will change :-)
masak: Think I need to comment on what's happening there?
masak it's not particularly hard to guess what the syntax does.
no.
jnthn masak: ok. :-)
masak unless you want to comment on how nice it is that it works. :)
to me, it's the epitome of the "strangely consistent" mantra. 16:27
jnthn masak: changed :-)
masak \o/
jnthn masak++
masak (Perl 6)++
jnthn I found some english fails in my read-through and correct those too.
Post scheduled for: Dec 18, 2009 @ 0:00. 16:28
My work here is done.
:-)
Which is a good job really, since I now need to go to the station to collect a visiting friend.
masak jnthn: sorry, I exaggerrated. :$!foo works, but not :$.foo in Rakudo. :( 16:29
it should, though.
jnthn oh 16:30
masak: if you think that's an issue, feel free to change it back
masak I don't, really.
but it depends on how strict we are with everything-should-run-in-Rakud-master. 16:31
masak changes it to :$!foo 16:32
...then we'll have something to talk about in the comments. :)
kangu What perl6 compiler can I trust 16:33
masak kangu: define 'trust'.
either all of them or none of them. :)
kangu masak, that's null 16:34
PerlJam kangu: trust for what purpose?
kangu masak, redundant answer
masak kangu: sorry about that. could you make your question less vague?
kangu PerlJam, That does implement all perl6 standard of course 16:35
masak kangu: 'of course'? :)
no compiler implements the whole spec.
kangu masak, ok thanks 16:37
KyleHa A monk could do with some clarity concerning Rakudo: perlmonks.org/?node_id=813205
PerlJam kangu: Of course, perl 5 is quite useful without a spec too.
masak kangu: it's possible that you're a few years to early in asking that question.
PerlJam kangu: (ergo, a Perl 6 implementation can also be useful even if it doesn't implement the entire spec) 16:38
kangu PerlJam, absolutely right just been excited to see all the new goodies. I bet this gonna take the language a further step ahead 16:38
[particle] kangu: try rakudo. you'll like it. 16:40
PerlJam kangu: There's an implementation called Rakudo based on the Parrot virtual machine that many of us here use for various purposes
kangu: as particle says--try it.
kangu Thank you guys I'm gonna give it a try right now
PerlJam kangu: have you seen perl6advent.wordpress.com ? 16:41
kangu just been here perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6#___top
PerlJam kangu: see perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/1/ 16:42
kangu That confirms it
kangu Thanks to all and have good coding 16:44
Tene gist.github.com/258871 -- the program I'm going to be building in my p6advent post 17:00
anyone have comments about it before I start writing the actual post? 17:03
masak swimming & 17:04
PerlJam Seems like you shouldn't need to differentiate pickone/pickmany, but instead just use the number of ac:
PerlJam but I guess the distinction is needed for the hints. 17:05
Tene PerlJam: it was inspired by $realjob, where we also have truefalse, fillintheblank, and a couple of others.
but, yes, the hints also
at $realjob I have different functions to do the scoring for each type of question. 17:06
PerlJam Anyway, Tene++ awesome example :) 17:08
Tene: oh, I assume you need all of those {*} to make it work with master?
Tene Yes.
as well, iirc, ng uses :actions where master uses :action 17:09
PerlJam really? I hadn't noticed that. 17:12
colomon Woah, it's going to take me some studying to figure out how Tene's example works... 17:19
Tene colomon: some studying... or a BLOG POST ABOUT IT?!?!?!?!?!!?
colomon Yes, a blog post would do nicely. Shall I skip the studying and wait for you to spoon feed it to me? :) 17:21
Tene eh, your choice.
ash___ does the meta model currently speced have any callbacks in it? 17:23
i know in ruby for instance, they have callbacks for method_added, method_removed, included (when its added to a class), extended (when its added to the eigenclass or module) 17:25
takadonet hey chromatic 17:42
chromatic morning 17:43
cj heya chromatic. ltns 17:48
chromatic Thanks, I think. I can't keep up with you crazy kids and your slang. 17:49
cj chromatic: long time no see ;) 17:50
it's chinese, from what my profé tells me 17:51
Tene chromatic: I haven't seen you for about 13 months. 17:52
cj a literal translation of "ho noi mou gin" according to the interwebs
pmurias is there a version (perhaps perl replacement) for wdiff which uses color 17:54
Tene pmurias: I use vimdiff
peter_12 So I learned that perl5 uses reference counting. I was disappointed to learn that. Does parrot/perl6 use something safer like mark-and-sweep?
jnthn peter_12: Yes. 17:55
TimToady yes, though they'd like to move to a generational GC
peter_12 well that is good news
jnthn ash___: no, not yet.
peter_12 I'm still in shock that perl5 uses reference counting. It took a lot of wind out of my sails. 17:56
TimToady so does Python
peter_12 TimToady: really?! 17:57
wow
chromatic So does Ruby.
At least 1.8.x.
peter_12 what is wrong with these people?!
TimToady you must think language designers are smart or something :) 17:58
chromatic What's wrong with reference counting?
peter_12 chromatic: Reference counting and long running processes are not good friends. Think FastCGI and complex data structure relationships. 17:59
ash___ jnthn: i noticed the doc/metamodels.pod in ng, is that where they metamodel in general is being discussed? 18:00
chromatic You don't have to implement the reference counts naively; you run into similar problems with COW pages growing unshared if you store the marks in the obvious and naive and wrong place with a mark/sweep collector.
peter_12 "COW"? 18:02
chromatic Copy on Write
jnthn ash___: Well, it's Rakudo's proposal for how it should look. 18:04
ash___: It is still very much up for discussion though.
peter_12 chromatic: I don't see that as a likely problem with mark-and-sweep. Hidden references are a likely problem
jnthn ash___: And certainly isn't in any sense complete.
chromatic And read/write barriers are a problem in a "proper" GC. 18:08
ash___ i feel like having some hookable callback on a few of the meta methods would be useful, like a method thats called when something is composed or inherited for instance 18:09
should i try adding it to ng and submit a patch for it? or ... discuss it more ?
Tene ash___: I'd start with a RFC to the perl 6 mailing list 18:10
Tene If it doesn't get warnocked, it'll probably wander aimlessly for few days, and then you can go back over it and pick up all of the suggestions, and maybe iterate again. 18:11
ash___ Tene: sounds good, i'll do that 18:11
jnthn ash___: aye, what Tene said. Here is also good to discuss. 18:12
But good to send longer roposals to the list. 18:13
Tene Personally, that sounds a bit weird to me. I'd imagine that you just override the method called to compose the role, or whatever.
a separate callback list would be a bit unusual, and doesn't really show up anywhere else in Perl 6, but it's certainly worth discussion. 18:14
anm hello 18:18
Tene Hi!
ash___ there is a compose_role method in the RoleHOW but i'd be weary of overriding that method, as at a glance it looks like magic parrot stuff, but in general i think they could be useful for things like if you wanted to store a list of your subclasses, an easy way of doing that is define a method of the approriate hook then when someone subclasses the parent class it will call that method and you can just keep track of the children in a
variable
anm I recently came accross the perl 6 advent calendar
and learned something about it, having ignored it until now
Tene: hi!
anyway, it is quite exciting
Tene ash___: I'd imagine that you override it and then just pass off to the superclass or whatever.
anm I like the new language features 18:19
jnthn ash___: It's not Parrot stuff at all, it's just the metamodel stuff. :-)
anm and thought I would give a lightning talk based on some of the posts at the local LUG tonight
I can't find a licence for it though
jnthn ash___: You could subclass it and use callsame.
anm (and don't have time to write own examples) 18:20
jnthn ash___: Or nextsame.
anm any idea about that?
pmichaud anm: looking 18:21
jnthn anm: Oh, good question. I wrote one of the posts, but don't know about that... :-)
ash___: Actually you'd write a method ^compose_role in your class.
chromatic I wouldn't expect any of the code has an onerous license, especially for presenting to a UG.
pmichaud I'd expect either creative commons or artistic license, depending on whether you're showing code or text 18:22
ash___ jnthn: hmm, well now you expect me to use multi methods properly, *needs to stop forgetting about that*. I suppose you can do the same for add_method and add_attribute too, maybe a hook isn't needed
pmichaud it's probably safe to assume artistic license 2 for the code snippets
anm I doubt anyone would mind but thought I should check
right
pmichaud anm: yes, thanks for checking 18:23
anm I shall attribute it anyway
pmichaud oh, definitely attribute the author or perl6advent blog, please
that's always a good approach
jnthn ash___: No, doesn't neeed multis. 18:24
ash___: nextsame and friends handle inehritance hierarches.
OK, gotta go...cy'all 18:25
cj moritz_: also requires Calendar::Simple 18:47
ash___ rakudo: role foo { method ^bar { }; }; class Foooo does foo { }; 18:49
p6eval rakudo 39685a: ( no output )
ash___ on my computer thats giving me: Null PMC access in get_string() 18:50
cj moritz_: ilbot.colliertech.org/ubuntu-us-wa/2009-12-17 18:52
chromatic How much do I need to update for the release? 19:38
PerlJam is back from lunch 19:45
ash___ does ng not have @*INC? 19:54
yet anyway
astoria Salut
Tene ash___: probably not. 19:55
Hi, astoria!
astoria Hi Tene
ash___ Tene: okay, thats cool
PerlJam ng: say @*INC;
p6eval ng b9eec4: ␤
PerlJam Well, it doesn't complain at least :) 19:56
ash___ Tene can you think of any reason my rakudo (on master branch) won't run role foo { method ^bar { }; }; class Foooo does foo { };, but rakudo in here will?
i even re-checked out rakudo and had it re-build parrot in a completely separate folder and it still didn't work, same error
Tene ash___: last I heard, class definitions with the evalbot in here on rakudo master always time out.
ash___ oh, okay, that might be why its not giving any output 19:57
Tene: does: role foo { method ^bar { }; }; class Foooo does foo { }; give you an error?
if you don't mind checking
Tene ash___: Yes, it fails in the same way. 19:58
ash___ ng seems okay with it, i think its the '^' in the method definition, but that should be allowed, shouldn't it? 19:59
Tene iirc, if that's valid, it's specced as defining a method on the metaclass, or something. I wouldn't be surprised if rakudo master doesn't implement that properly. 20:00
ash___ i know jnthn did some work on the meta stuff in ng, thats probably why it doesn't complain, i'll just wait for ng to come around into master 20:01
chromatic Who's handling the March release? 20:07
PerlJam I don't think anyone has volunteered yet 20:11
PerlJam dislikes "nobreak" 20:13
Tene +1 20:14
moritz_ masak++ # answering Perl 6 questions on perlmonks 20:18
ash___ hmm, so you can define subs in a role right? then they are just name spaced to the name of the role? 20:19
rakudo: role foo { sub bar { say '1'; }; }; class Fooo { sub baz { say '2'; }; }; Fooo::baz; foo::bar; 20:20
moritz_ by default subs live in lexical scopes, not namesapces
p6eval rakudo 39685a: ( no output )
Tene 12:56 <@Tene> ash___: last I heard, class definitions with the evalbot in here on rakudo master always time out.
ash___ oops, ya thats right, eval bot don't like class definitions
moritz_: well, lexically scoped then, so to call that above bar you should do foo::bar? right? 20:21
Tene ash___: that would be package-scoped, not lexically. 20:28
moritz_ it means that you can call the sub only from within the role
unless you export it
or declare it as "our sub" or so
ash___ so, to get to baz, i should have to export baz our declare that as an our sub too? 20:31
moritz_ can't parse that sentence 20:33
wayland76 also dislikes nobreak, but after spending 10 or 15 minutes with a thesaurus, realises that there didn't seem to be any really good alternatives (why don't thesauri have more archaic words? :) )
moritz_: for ash___'s message, s/our/or/ 20:34
TimToady the one good thing about nobreak is that it's easy to explain in terms of break 20:35
ash___ to execute baz from my above example (Fooo::baz) i should have to do: sub baz is export {} or our sub baz { }, right?
mberends nobreak == atomic 20:37
frettled nobreak broke my blog entry :D 20:40
chromatic Hm, I'm getting spectest failures in the tarball I made. 20:42
moritz_ ash___: I think so, yes
sorry, my connection keeps dropping off, making real-time chat basically impossible
chromatic Can other people test wgz.org/chromatic/tmp/rakudo-12.tar.gz ?
frettled moritz_: oh noes, asynchronous chat! :D
moritz_ chromatic: 404 20:43
frettled I was about to say «404 compliant link»
chromatic Right, mistyped.
www.wgz.org/chromatic/tmp/rakudo-2009-12.tar.gz
ash___ moritz_: well, for classes you don't currently need to (or its not complaining when i try to do Fooo::baz; ) but roles give me an Undef error even when i export the sub or declare the sub doing our sub bar 20:44
moritz_ ash___: for classes it's the same, but rakudo handles it a bit lax
KyleHa chromatic: Is it supposed to have all of t/spec in it? 20:45
moritz_ KyleHa: yes
chromatic As far as I know.
frettled My parrot's getting a biscuit.
KyleHa Nifty.
TimToady maybe we should call them "breakout" and "breakdown" :)
mberends chromatic: fetched, building on debian stable amd64 20:46
TimToady really, we hardly need 'nobreak', given that leave already works in any simple block 20:47
but leave doesn't read well either
frettled No, not really.
I liked «continue» for hysterical raisins. 20:48
sjohnson reasons or raisins?
Tene carryon
carrion!
frettled sjohnson: historical raisins, that would be something, eh?
TimToady as the calender comments were demonstrating, 'continue' is very confusing to C programmers
PerlJam TimToady: stay, endure, persist, maintain
TimToady and it also means something different in Perl 5 20:49
Tene dontstop; # innuendo
PerlJam TimToady: suffer :)
(bit of a stretch, that one)
Tene more
TimToady (more)
PerlJam oh, I like that
KyleHa nobreak = mend 20:50
mberends endure
Tene keepgoing
sjohnson timtoady: did you read my for loop "copy" without writing $_ idea? if so, is it a good one? bad one?
Tene try-the-next-one
frettled ¬break
TimToady sjohnson: doesn't seem to buy much
moritz_ dontusewhenwhenyouwanttocontinue
PerlJam bear
Tene I'm kind of tempted by using 'next' there. 20:51
TimToady unwhen
Tene when't
mberends ifatfirstyoudontsucceed
TimToady make_it_didn't_match
sjohnson ok
frettled Tene: no, "next" gives the wrong impression
TimToady notreally
Tene frettled: I agree.
KyleHa kidding
Tene among other problems.
frettled KyleHa: justkidding? 20:52
KyleHa frettled: *nod*
frettled "relay"
PerlJam belay
Tene distract
frettled rewhen
Tene whenagain
TimToady frettled: except next statement might not be a when
frettled TimToady: d'oh :) 20:53
TimToady d'oh!
Tene stay
(don'tleaveme)
TimToady I kinda like d'oh
frettled Tene: which automatically plays a tune by Sash?
PerlJam So ... what happens at the end of a when? Is it an implicit "next" or some other kind of control exception?
frettled implicit break
Tene PerlJam: implicit break
frettled the problem would go away if the semantics were changed to demand an explicit break 20:54
that would be easier on the C programmers, too ;)
TimToady shoots frettled
frettled breaks.
diakopter make like a tree and nobreak 20:55
PerlJam is clearly going slightly insane. 20:56
frettled How about "yield"? :)
PerlJam (I knew it was break, but I was having some sort of mental block)
frettled { mental }
Can we have named blocks, BTW? 20:57
PerlJam anyway, "break" only ever matters to "when"? It doesn't affect any other statement/block?
frettled was almost afraid to ask.
Tene PerlJam: 'when' doesn't care about break, it throws it.
diakopter frettled: I guess just put a label before it
Tene PerlJam: it's the containing block that catches the break
given/for/while/etc. 20:58
chromatic nopaste?
Tene anything that sets $_ should catch break, iiuc
TimToady $_ = 42 sets $_ :)
which is why it's limited to $_ declared as a parameter
diakopter chromatic: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 21:00
TimToady maybe "oops"
chromatic Lots of failures in my release tarball: nopaste.snit.ch/19129
TimToady "falsealarm"
Su-Shee 'snooze' 21:01
PerlJam chromatic: aye, I just got the same results from my build here.
TimToady Su-Shee++ 21:02
diakopter "ewrongdroids"
chromatic I didn't have these failures yesterday.
frettled diakopter: so I should have written: mental:{ }
TimToady if we renamed 'break' to 'cut', we could have cut/uncut
frettled TimToady: «procrastinate» 21:03
PerlJam But then all the prolog people would get confused.
chromatic The t/spectest.data file looks the same. Hm.
TimToady keeptrying 21:04
PerlJam For some reason I tend to gravitate to the 4 letter word suggestions. "keep" and "more" almost work.
Do we have some sort of syntax already that lets us ignore certain types of exceptions? 21:05
frettled Well, .leave? 21:06
TimToady well, quietly catches warning exceptions
nobreak when {...} 21:07
Tene PerlJam: CATCH/CONTROL 21:08
frettled TimToady: hmm, perhaps an adverb, then? :D 21:10
TimToady bbl & 21:13
Su-Shee break & trap
moritz_ chromatic: probable the release make target checks out the latest test suite and stuffs it into the tarball 21:14
chromatic: I've commited a fix 21:15
mberends spectest svn r29188 here 21:16
chromatic moritz_, the Makefile agrees with you.
frettled "bow", "defer", "accede", "cede", ... 21:17
The latter as in "to cede control". 21:19
mberends "stretch"
chromatic new tarball: wgz.org/chromatic/tmp/rakudo-2009-12.tar.gz 21:20
frettled I think the verb has to have some connection to what actually happens; we want to explicitly _not_ make the decision whether this is the final result or not.
dalek kudo/master: 55a5c07 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
[build] use the same spectest revision for the release as everything else uses
frettled chromatic: but but but the spectests from the former are still running :D
chromatic You have my authorization to go all Lizzie Borden on that process family. 21:21
frettled I had to look up the name :) 21:22
I somehow suspect that TimToady really meant "be back later" when he wrote "bbl &", and that it wasn't merely a joking suggestion regarding the control. :) 21:25
chromatic t/spec/S02-literals/listquote.rakudo ........................... Failed 1/22 subtests 21:26
(less 9 skipped subtests: 12 okay)
t/spec/S02-literals/sub-calls.t ................................ Failed 2/20 subtests
t/spec/S03-junctions/misc.rakudo ............................... Failed 1/103 subtests
(less 32 skipped subtests: 70 okay)
t/spec/S03-operators/context-forcers.rakudo .................... Failed 1/93 subtests 21:27
(less 15 skipped subtests: 77 okay)
t/spec/S03-operators/numeric-context.rakudo .................... Failed 4/52 subtests
(less 2 skipped subtests: 46 okay)
(2 TODO tests unexpectedly succeeded)
frettled chromatic: I forgot, what should I be looking for? 21:31
chromatic I'm not sure I understand the question.
frettled Is there anything in particular you are interested in from a spectest run on that rakudo version? 21:32
ash___ just wondering, this might be a kind of odd question and its probably for historical reasons but why are a few things in perl randomly in ALL CAPS? i am not seeing the logic 21:39
moritz_ ash___: usually things that the compiler calls for you are in all caps 21:41
you never call a CATCH or CONTROL or BEGIN block yourself
it's triggered automatically
ash___ ah, i see i guess that makes sense
chromatic frettled, I want a clean spectest run for the release. 21:43
ash___ can you finally a try/catch? 21:50
chromatic moritz_, apparently make release undid your change. Any suggestions? 21:54
frettled chromatic: aha. 21:55
moritz_ chromatic: did you reconfigure before 'make release'?
frettled chromatic: Failed 26/449 test scripts, 94.21% okay. -500/34209 subtests failed, 101.46% okay.
oops, missed the first line there:
(21 subtests UNEXPECTEDLY SUCCEEDED), 2013 subtests skipped.
System: Ubuntuy Hardy Heron, Linux 2.6.24, x86_64. 21:56
chromatic Reconfigure... let me try. 21:57
chromatic Looks good so far, moritz_. 22:01
moritz_ here too 22:02
ash___ is it normal for the spec test to spike at like 1.05 gig's of ram taken for a single perl 6 process? 22:06
chromatic It's not ABnormal. 22:09
moritz_, that looks much better. 22:12
moritz_ is up at S05-mass right now, and no failures so far 22:12
chromatic newest tarball: wgz.org/chromatic/tmp/rakudo-2009-12.tar.gz 22:13
chromatic t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.rakudo ............................ Failed 1/18 subtests 22:30
(less 7 skipped subtests: 10 okay)
Could be a local niggle. 22:31
chromatic Yep, passes here manually. 22:38
moritz_ all pass here 22:40
chromatic To [email@hidden.address] 22:42
! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward)
error: failed to push some refs to [email@hidden.address]
Pull fail?
arnsholt non-fast forward means that there are merge conflicts, I think 22:43
arnsholt At least that's what it's told me when I've had conflicts when pulling 22:43
arnsholt How you resolve conflicts, OTOH, I have no idea >.< 22:43
chromatic Ah, I wasn't on a branch or master. 22:45
Now I need to find the commit I made there.
uploading to GH now.... 22:48
dalek kudo/master: 7f1c3fe | chromatic++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
[docs] Updated release guide.
 22:51
pmurias diakopter: are you still interested in using js as the vm? (thinking if you have any wishes when i set to rewrite V8.pm) 22:52
diakopter pmurias: no, I'm going to focus on mono now; thank you, though. 22:53
pmurias diakopter: what's your plan for targeting mono? 22:54
diakopter I'm making a "nq"nqp-rx (clone), but with the goal of growing that into Perl 6 proper instead of building another layer 22:55
though I just discovered mono hasn't yet implemented System.Reflection.Emit.DynamicILInfo, which would be cool if it had
pmurias using rakudo or starting from scratch
diakopter modelled after nqp-rx's Grammar.pm, yes, initially, but with the goal of syncing with STD 22:56
but yes, lots of code/ideas can be simply ported because of all the work already put into STD, PAST/nqp-rx, and rakudo 22:57
(it's not quite "starting from scratch", in other words)
ash___ ng: role A { }; say ~A.^methods; 22:58
p6eval ng b9eec4: No such attribute 'parrotclass'␤current instr.: 'perl6;RoleHOW;methods' pc 4835 (src/metamodel/RoleHOW.pir:47)␤
pmurias diakopter: if you are interested i could add a C#/CIL backend to mildew over the weekend if you are interested 23:01
pmurias diakopter: all the dependency on smop/js/etc. could be seperated from mildew if that's troubling you 23:49

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