»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by wolfe.freenode.net on 30 October 2009.
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diakopter refactoring while porting. recommended only on coffee. 01:32
diakopter looks for more coffee
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pugs_svn r29442 | diakopter++ | [sprixel] begin porting alternation of two stateless nodes. 02:15
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Tene Okay, I have a Failure class behaving mostly properly... it sets 'handled' in the right places, etc. 06:52
I just need to figure out what accesses I need to establish failures for.
all the vtables? are there methods it should support? 06:54
And what should it do when not failing? Forward to the exception?
mberends I wish I could answer such questions, but I cannot :( 06:55
Tene eh, I'll just wing it. 06:56
mberends you're pre-forgiven
Tene get_string and .Str, get_num and .Num, etc.
I'll just make them forward when not failing.
Yay, failing tests! I don't know if I made them fail or not! 06:58
sjohnson yo
Tene I need to learn to do a spectest run *before* hacking. :)
diakopter sjohnson: hi
sjohnson hows it going dia 07:03
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diakopter sjohnson: oky doky 07:09
Tene Yes, definitely extra failures in my branch.
well, s/branch/local copy.
diakopter Tene: Failure causing failures? that's good!
sjohnson: wrote a codegen system for javascript 07:10
Tene Oh, I guess Failures should always be undefined?
That sounds reasonable...
diakopter I seem to recall that's right 07:11
Tene Yeah, my failures are about failures not being undefined. 07:12
diakopter ng: fail 07:17
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
diakopter rakudo: fail
p6eval rakudo db84bc: Can't return outside a routine␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
diakopter rakudo: fail epically 07:19
p6eval rakudo db84bc: Could not find non-existent sub epically␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤
diakopter rakudo: ubi 07:20
p6eval rakudo db84bc: Could not find non-existent sub ubi␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤
Tene diakopter: Um, I can't really tell what 'fail' outside of a sub should do.
mberends rakudo: do not (&fail)
p6eval rakudo db84bc: ( no output ) 07:21
Tene 'fail' == 'return Failure.new()', kinda
ng: return 5
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: fail
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '&fail' pc 13943 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:188)␤
Tene see? Same thing.
diakopter ng: leave
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Could not find non-existent sub &leave␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: last
Tene so, tell me what return outside of a sub should do and then fail can do the same thing. :)
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Warning␤
diakopter ooo
ng: next
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Warning␤
Tene Rakudo should really have a top-level handler to catch that stuff.
diakopter ng: nextsame
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Could not find non-existent sub &nextsame␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: self 07:22
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Could not find non-existent sub &self␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: brane.eat
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Could not find non-existent sub &brane␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: ::brane.eat
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Null PMC access in find_method('eat')␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: ::brane.::eat
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Confused at line 1, near "::brane.::"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
diakopter ng: ::brane.eat:: 07:23
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Confused at line 1, near "::brane.ea"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
diakopter ng: ::brane()
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
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diakopter ng: (sub { ::self })().say 07:27
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Null PMC access in find_method('say')␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: (sub { fail })().say 07:28
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Mu()␤
diakopter ng: (sub { return })().say
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: return requires an expression argument at line 1, near "})().say"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
diakopter ng: (sub { return; })().say
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: return requires an expression argument at line 1, near "; })().say"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
diakopter ng: (sub { return nextsame })().say
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Could not find non-existent sub &nextsame␤current instr.: '_block23' pc 113 (EVAL_1:49)␤ 07:29
diakopter ng: (sub { return selfsame })().say
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Could not find non-existent sub &selfsame␤current instr.: '_block23' pc 113 (EVAL_1:49)␤
diakopter ng: (sub { return &return })().say
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: Symbol '&return' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤
diakopter ng: (sub { return ::&return })().say
p6eval ng 4ccc5a: return requires an expression argument at line 1, near "::&return "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
lisppaste3 tene pasted "failure example works!" at paste.lisp.org/display/92947
Tene How does that look? 07:30
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diakopter lgtm 07:36
but, what do I know
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Tene oh, ouch... 07:40
you can't pass a Failure to 'is'
because 'is' calls 'eq', which calls 'get_str'...
diakopter heh 07:41
Tene only comes up in two tests, though...
Maybe I can get a multi in to handle that. 07:42
diakopter but... wouldn't the multi dispatcher call is? 07:44
might need to check ~.WHAT eq 'Failure()' in is() 07:45
er something
Tene No, the multi dispatcher won't call 'is'. 07:47
I'm dealing with 'is()' in Test.pm
Oh, hmm... 07:49
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Tene Woah, got a segfault... :) 07:57
sjohnson diakopter: cool. do you do javascript just for webpage stuff or do you like the language for other uses too? 08:02
Tene Any ideas what Failures should numify to? 08:03
I'll just Intify and Numify to 0 for now. :) 08:04
TimToady seems reasonable to someone whose going to zzzzzzzzzz after driving most of the last 16 hours... 08:07
*who's 08:09
mberends sjohnson: you'll be impressed by what diakopter++ is making JavaScript do on Google's V8 in Sprixel... very little to do with webpages, just implementing a subset of Perl 6! 08:12
sjohnson interesting 08:13
Tene Ooo... 08:14
Str.index() is fail()ing, and then someone is checking for >0 in the return value, instead of checking for truth or defined. 08:15
So it *should* be failing there, afaict, provided Str.index is supposed to be using fail instead of returning -1 oslt.
Well, S32 contradicts evaluating as a number, but specs it as returning a StrPos object. 08:16
I'll change the test to check for truthiness...
erm... definedness. 08:17
pugs_svn r29443 | tene++ | Fix to not fail with Str.index 08:18
Tene Spectesting... 08:21
Okay, a few more failures.
Oh, nice, one of them is a sporadic segfault. 08:26
The other is a segfault in the test file, but doesn't segfault when trimmed down.
Great.
runs fine with GC disabled... 08:28
><
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Tene I'll commit as it is. Looks like weird parrot GC bugs, I think. 08:29
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Tene There, pushed. 08:36
I'll do 'use fatal' tomorrow.
Have fun. 08:37
dalek kudo/ng: 2db8b5e | tene++ | (5 files):
First draft of new Failure class
 08:40
Tene Any other requests tonight, before I sleep? 08:41
Man, you guys are so boring when you're asleep! 08:44
:P
goodnight all.
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Su-Shee good morning 08:58
Tene Morning! 08:59
How's you today?
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Supaplex Tene: I thought you were going to sleep 09:12
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sjohnson Supaplex: he's on a roll 09:22
Supaplex he's fast. ;) 09:25
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nadim perl6: 1.^methods.sort.join(' ').say 10:59
p6eval rakudo db84bc: Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'cmp', with signature 'PP->I'␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
..pugs: [LIST,ITEM,bless]␤
..elf 29443: Unknown rule: dotty:.^␤It needs to be added to ast_handlers.␤ at ./elf_h line 2850␤
nadim what does the PP->I mean and where is that documented? 11:00
I must say that 1.^methods.join(' ').say working and 1.^methods.sort.join(' ').say not working is surprising 11:01
this 'compile' but doesn't sort 1.^methods.fmt('%s').sort.join(' ').say 11:07
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mberends hi nadim, I see you're a bit puzzled there. The error message is an internal one, generated by sort(). The PP->I indicates an attempt to find a function that receives two PolyMorphicContainers (PMCs) as parameters and returns an Integer. It's doing that because ^methods is returning method objects, not method names, I think 11:21
nadim it does return methods 11:22
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nadim join can take a PP but not sort! how does one stringify a method name? 11:23
mberends one at a time would be ~ but you need to stringify a list of them 11:24
nadim ughhhh! and error message that starts with "Confused" is, ..., confusing 11:26
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nadim Does anyone know why multi subs have to be declared with 'multi'? ie: why aren't subs multi by default? 11:50
mberends probably to force you to declare what you mean, just as 'my' is not the default either 11:52
nadim except that using my multiple times is an error but using multi multiple times is not 11:53
but I get your point
frettled It makes it easier to catch programming errors, for instance when you accidentally declare a new sub with the same name as an old one. 11:54
mberends omitting 'multi' implies that it *will* not be multi'd
ubuntu 10.4-alpha is behaving very well on this eeePC :) 11:57
nadim you are lucky, this KDE 4.x is eating some of my key presses. @, {, }, [, ... depending on the app. makes programming perl very easy 12:01
lisppaste3 nadim pasted "untitled" at paste.lisp.org/display/92950 12:03
nadim interresting to see that multi subs can declared _without_ multi after the first declaration.
mberends nadim: that should not be. you may have found a bug there 12:04
lisppaste3 nadim pasted "untitled" at paste.lisp.org/display/92951
nadim this one is even worse
gives "push_pmc() not implemented in class 'Sub'" 12:05
mberends still updating and installing git-core and subversion to build Rakudo, then I'll be able to test some of your code locally. 12:06
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lisppaste3 nadim pasted "untitled" at paste.lisp.org/display/92952 12:09
nadim this example is not bad either. I'd expect a redeclaration warning for both cases but it seems that 'multi' blocks that. 12:10
that's not good because the warning is definitely something you want want looking for bugs 12:11
mberends nadim: be aware that there is a major refactor going on in the rakudo-ng branch, and that internals such as you're prodding are certainly already radically changed. 12:13
nadim there are 20+ branches, should I use the ng branch instead? 12:15
mberends not yet, but it is going to become the new master within weeks or even days 12:16
nadim I'll wait then
mberends good plan 12:17
nadim this is where a FIT like test framework would be great. easy for those who find errors to report them, easy for those who test to run them. 12:20
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colomon FIT? 12:26
nadim fitnesse.org/ 12:27
mberends hi Su-Shee, some domain squatter tricked me with schreibsturm.de before I found www.schreibsturm.org/antiverpeil.html again ;)
nadim but I believe there is more to FIT than what is ther. Simply put, let the user add test in a very, very simple way so the tests don't get lost. 12:28
Su-Shee yeah, I missed re-newing a couple of "my" domains fast enough two years ago.
colomon nadim: Perl 6 has a huge set of spectests, and is very generous with permits to modify them. 12:29
though I suppose once you've done so your issue becomes one of hundreds.... 12:30
nadim which is great but the meaning of FIT is to make it easier for any user to just drop a few lines and forget about them. of course it is great if someone puts them in the specs but I think that's not the 'finders' role.
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nadim think of it as perl6: and std: with a DB memory and a web face 12:33
lisppaste3 ovid pasted "method invocation bug" at paste.lisp.org/display/92953
ovid Is this a known bug? 12:35
colomon nadim: If you can duplicate the bug using perl6: (well, rakudo: or ng:), it's perfectly acceptable to just copy from the irc channel and with that to [email@hidden.address] and let other people worry about it.
nadim IE, how do we know the error above, hi ovid, will be handled or even remembered?
colomon nadim: I guess it could be marginally simper than that, but not much.
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colomon ovid: do you get the error if you leave off the last x.new.y line? 12:36
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ovid Yes. 12:36
colomon rakudo: class x { multi method y { self.y("void") } }; x.new.y; 12:37
p6eval rakudo db84bc: ( no output ) 12:38
colomon of course, class declarations still don't work this way. sigh. 12:40
Okay, I've duplicated the issue in rakudo master, and ng gives similar results "Method 'y' not found for invocant of class 'Mu'" 12:41
ovid rakudo: class x { multi method y { self.y("void") } multi method y ($arg) { say $arg } }; x.new.y; 12:42
p6eval rakudo db84bc: Confused at line 2, near "multi meth"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
colomon ovid: heh. If I add "say x.new.WHAT;" right after the class definition, it works on both master and ng. 12:43
ovid Arg!
How annoying :)
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colomon So it's totally a bug, and it's in both branches. 12:44
pmurias nadim: multi's are not default for traditions sake
colomon Do you want to submit it to rakudobug, or would you like me to?
nadim pmurias: tradition, hmm, well why not 12:47
rakudo guys, would it be possible to make the output of rakudo errors and warnings different, it seems to me they are not? 12:48
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ovid How do I submit to rakudobug? 12:49
nadim ovid: rakudo.org/developers-guide
ovid Cheers.
colomon E-mail [email@hidden.address] with [BUG] in the subject line. 12:50
pmurias nadim: multi is two letters longer then sub so it's not that a big difference
ovid Also, it it a known issue that if a subset type constraint fails, the error message omits the typename?
nadim colomon: wtf! why do you need [BUG] in the subject to the rakudobug 'user'!! I just send one without. next one will have [BUG]. and if you keep wanting [BUG] please update rakudo.org/developers-guide 12:51
colomon ovid: I'd send that code you pasted with the note that it fails on both master and ng, versions 7914ca3aa2f17ced09ff0707700e638d77cd5a1f and 2db8b5e6e8a5ea1559bf2668866e12476cf416fc respectively. 12:52
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ovid Doing that now. Thanks. 12:53
Bug report filed. 12:55
colomon ov 12:56
ovid OK, have to run for a while. I'll be back. 12:57
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colomon nadim: I don't know how necessary the [BUG] tag is, that's just how I do it. 12:59
IMO the biggest problem with the process is trying to see if the issue already is being tracked. 13:00
and my "solution" usually is just to ask here or post the bug without checking. :(
nadim it's difficult
maybe we should let the system do the checking by comparing the op tree for similarities between bugs 13:01
mathw o/ 13:03
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nadim man! 6 bugs or inconsistencies reported and i just read the first two advent calender entries. I wish I was as good finding bugs in my own code ;) 13:10
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cognominal rakudo: my $a; $a ~= 1 ?? 2 :: 3 13:14
p6eval rakudo db84bc: ResizablePMCArray: Can't pop from an empty array!␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
cognominal ng: my $a; $a ~= 1 ?? 2 :: 3
p6eval ng 2db8b5: Confused at line 1, near "$a ~= 1 ??"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤
cognominal rakudo: my $a; $a = $a ~ 1 ?? 2 :: 3 13:15
p6eval rakudo db84bc: ResizablePMCArray: Can't pop from an empty array!␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
nadim is perl6-bot the same as rakudo-bot?
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cognominal rakudo: my $a; $a = $a ~ (1 ?? 2 :: 3) 13:15
p6eval rakudo db84bc: ResizablePMCArray: Can't pop from an empty array!␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
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cognominal nadim: the bot uses different compilers depending how he is called 13:16
nadim and how do we know wich one is which?
I understand ng: and std: but bot the difference between rakudo and perl6: 13:17
cognominal I don't know all of them
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lisppaste3 ovid pasted "subset names not in error message" at paste.lisp.org/display/92955 13:52
ovid Not only does the subset name get omitted, the file and and line numbers are <unknown> (though the latter happens quite a bit) 13:53
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ovid is this a known bug? I haven't found it in RT, so I'm happy to file it. 13:54
nadim I reported a bug for the ommited file and line
I reported a bug for the <unknown> file and line (may that is clearer) and yes it happends quite a lot 13:55
ovid So I should post the 'subset' bug? 13:56
nadim yes you should but only about the subset bug not the <unknown> string although that wouldn't hurt 13:57
ovid ok
Bug filed. And I must say, I think that's a really nifty use of subset. Perl 6 is going to be very, very fun (and strange). 14:02
nadim I am afraid of that too. yes affraid. I'll learn it because I've been missing some of C++ goodies since I switched to Perl but it is going to be very difficult for a lot of people 14:03
Java was a succcess because it is a dumbed down language that anyone can use
P6 is a manager nightmare. 14:04
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nadim Is there a Dumper somewhere? I need to look at it so I can implement Data::TreeDumper for P6 (if introspection doesn't make it obsolete) 14:10
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nadim WHAT gibes the type of an object, what is used to get what the object inherits from? 14:28
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nadim and the 1$ question, isn't it possible to inherit from Str? 14:31
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colomon Does this work? 14:40
nadim this?
colomon nadim: There is no Dumper, per se. But the .perl method effectively does the same, I think.
I'm using web irc from my in-laws' computer. :) 14:41
nadim when it works but it seems to not work when you need it
colomon: I kinda understood the request ;)
colomon nadim: when are you having trouble with .perl ?
nadim all the time would be the right answer 14:42
colomon I know that Match objects don't work right yet, nor Code objects, but those are the only problems I've run into.
(and answering one of your other questions in the backlog, you certainly should be able to derive from Str.) 14:43
afk for a moment, got to get back to packing.
nadim class Something is Str{} is OK but I'd like it to act as a Str too. 14:47
lisppaste3 nadim pasted "untitled" at paste.lisp.org/display/92957
douglashunter The type coercion stuff in S13 looks nifty, especially: "If you define a method whose name is a declared type, it is taken as a coercion to that type". rodi's Automota::Cellular provides a role that does Str and Num coercions, letting a A::C::Rule act as both.. 14:50
colomon I've really got to go now, but I suspect the problem you're seeing is that my MyString $str doesn't create a MyString variable, it creates a variable which is tested to see if it is MyString. So you're still making a Str.
But I admit that when I tried to figure out how to initialize a type derived from Str a few months ago, I got hopelessly confused. But I didn't try very hard, and didn't ask around for help. 14:51
afk for real now, got to get the car ready and drive to our next location.
good luck!
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nadim good luck to all of us ;) 14:51
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colomon_ Oooo, logged in from my in-laws' driveway. For a moment, anyway... 15:13
ovid, your bug goes away with a semicolon...
after the class def.
that should probably be added to the bug info. 15:14
bug report info
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douglashunter Anybody know how I can get evalbot's output from a command line? I'm often not connected on IRC when I want to pass something through STD, but haven't figured out the right incantation. 16:24
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diakopter douglashunter: yes 16:32
have you checked out the pugscode subversion repository?
"checked out" in the subversion sense 16:33
douglashunter I just got there.
yes.
And I'm in ./src/perl6 in the repo.
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diakopter sry; stepped away for a minute. just run make 16:44
you'll need to install some packages from the CPAN
douglashunter No problem, and thank you. make()ing now.
I think I got the dependencies satisfied, my old slow laptop is churning away now. 16:45
diakopter 1 or 2 of the dependencies might not appear until it's been churning a while
douglashunter Huh, the wind in NYC is ripping my neighbors awning off. 16:46
diakopter do you have an svn account for pugscode? they're available to anyone. you can commit corrections and new tests to the official test suite. 16:47
douglashunter make() got to tryfile STD, which parsed.
awesome!
diakopter cool
you can use tryfile to test things 16:48
douglashunter I may have an ancient commit-bit, I'm not certain.
diakopter or ./viv -e 'some code'
douglashunter Sweet. Thanks for the help.
diakopter (will output the ast in yaml format)
yw 16:49
douglashunter Okay, I'm gonna go try to save an awning. Thanks again, see y'all soon.
diakopter I can have commitbit send you a 'reset my password' token if you want. cya
I notice that on feather, syntax hilite runs on the whole test suite periodically. I am wondering whether we can have syntax hilite run on STD.pm, perhaps once a day, so it it can be linked from perl6.org? anyone? 16:57
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pugs_svn r29444 | diakopter++ | [perl6.org] add an entry for STD.pm on perl6.org 17:03
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diakopter the mega camel: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15214376/ 17:58
pugs_svn r29445 | diakopter++ | [perl6.org] Add a books area on the Documentation page 18:16
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pugs_svn r29446 | diakopter++ | [perl6.org] Add some notes (excerpt from Synopsis 1) to /specification 18:39
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pugs_svn r29447 | diakopter++ | [sprixel] finish up "geither"; begin "geitherls" 19:19
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takadonet hey all 21:41
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takadonet hey colomon 21:45
diakopter hi
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colomon hello! 21:54
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takadonet colomon: how are u? 21:54
... 21:55
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colomon___ is starting to hate his IRC client... 21:59
mathw client, or your internet connection? 22:00
or both, I suppose
colomon___ Well, my connection has been "spotty" because I've been away from wi-fi for most of the day. :) 22:01
Though the record will show that I managed to chat from my in-laws' driveway, and even a little bit down their road before I lost the signal.
mathw heh
wireless is fun 22:02
colomon___ But my client logged me into #perl6 twice just now, then lost one of the connections, then when I tried to close the connection that was dead, closed the live connection instead. :(
And then ignored my requests to reconnect for about two minutes.
mathw oh nice 22:03
Another incident of software not coping very well with a dodgy network environment
That's what it sounds like, anyway
I have to deal with far too much of that for work. 22:04
i always said I didn't want to do anything involving networks... so I write network software for a living. Not sure how that happened.
colomon___ but all quasi-mobile network environments are dodgy!
mathw Yes, but not all programmers know how to deal with it
Or even that it's worth considering
colomon___ takadonet: other than irc issues and general exhaustion, I'm doing fine. 22:05
We went to my in-laws' for New Year's / our wedding anniversary, which meant that we had someone to watch the boy while we actually got to have skiing, dinner, and a movie out. Good times. 22:06
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mathw colomon___: sounds good 22:16
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