[00:15] *** nihiliad joined [00:37] *** eternaleye left [00:42] *** mirit joined [00:43] *** wu joined [00:43] *** wu is now known as Guest95347 [00:44] *** dugg left [00:51] *** Juerd joined [01:04] *** araujo joined [01:05] *** drbean joined [01:05] *** drbean_ joined [01:06] *** mirit left [01:13] *** drbean left [01:14] *** drbean_ is now known as drbean [01:15] *** Baggiokwok joined [01:15] *** tarski joined [01:21] *** Guest95347 left [01:26] *** patspam left [01:35] *** LaVolta joined [01:44] *** mssmfs left [01:45] *** jerkmaster joined [02:02] *** sjohnson left [02:05] *** sjohnson joined [02:29] *** Baggiokwok left [02:35] *** jferrero left [02:51] *** tarski left [03:22] *** patspam joined [03:43] *** LaVolta left [04:01] *** spinclad joined [04:11] erg. at 22:55:19 i lose my connection to irc.freenode.net, i'm reconnected by 22:55:55 (to calvino) but NickServ doesn't come back till 23:05, so i'm not identified till i repeat my identify /msg later, and #perl6 says: [04:11] 22:55:57 [freenode] -!- #perl6 Cannot join channel (+j) - throttle exceeded, try again later [04:13] i'm not sure what correlates with what there, but a number of people have mentioned the like for them. [04:14] (here, rather than spam #perl6 with this, i'll go mention it on #freenode, see if someone has a clue...) [04:19] that sounds like what you would expect when everyone on the network has to reconnect :) [04:19] *** LaVolta joined [04:26] *** Eddward joined [04:27] perl6: say 10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000 [04:27] pugs: OUTPUT«1149.4252873563218390804597701149425287356322␤» [04:27] ..elf 29602, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632␤» [04:27] ? [04:27] perl6: say 10000000000 / 8700000 [04:27] pugs: OUTPUT«1149.4252873563218390804597701149425287356322␤» [04:27] ..elf 29602, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632␤» [04:29] Trying to figure out how much Gates is spending per person he's projected to save over 10 years. [04:30] print 10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000 [04:30] perl6: print 10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000 [04:30] pugs: OUTPUT«1149.4252873563218390804597701149425287356322» [04:30] ..elf 29602, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632» [04:30] ok, I think I get it. [04:31] I get -246.827586206897 when I run it on my system. [04:33] perl6: print say (10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000).perl [04:33] pugs, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«100000/87␤1» [04:33] ..elf 29602: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632␤1» [04:33] ask [04:33] err ack [04:33] I should sleep [04:33] *** LaVolta left [04:33] *** f00li5h joined [04:34] perl6: print (10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000).perl [04:34] elf 29602: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632» [04:34] ..pugs, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«100000/87» [04:36] perl6: print "Goodnight Eddward." [04:36] elf 29602, pugs, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«Goodnight Eddward.» [04:36] *** Eddward left [04:48] *** drbean left [04:57] *** constant left [05:26] *** nihiliad left [06:05] *** drbean joined [06:10] *** gfx joined [06:18] in the statically-typed subset of Perl 6 I'm implementing in Sprixel, I'm trying to decide how to reify continuations. [06:28] *** Baggiokwok joined [06:32] I suppose the simplest technique is to provide two statement prefixes: return-cc returns a continuation with the result of the prefixed statement stashed in it (analogous to C#'s yield, most useful for iterators/generators), and call-cc that invokes a closure passing in the current continuation as the sole argument. [06:34] I guess yield-cc is a more appropriate name for the first one [06:46] *** colomon joined [06:46] *** LaVolta joined [06:46] colomon: hi [06:47] hello! [06:49] .u 8787 [06:49] U+8787 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8787 (螇) [06:49] .u 8998 [06:49] U+8998 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8998 (覘) [06:49] .u 19980 [06:49] diakopter: Sorry, no results for '19980'. [06:49] .u 29980 [06:49] diakopter: Sorry, no results for '29980'. [06:49] .u 20001 [06:49] diakopter: Sorry, no results for '20001'. [06:49] .u FFFF [06:49] U+FFFF (No name found) [06:50] .u FFFFF [06:50] diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFF'. [06:50] .u FFFFFF [06:50] diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFFF'. [06:50] .u FFFFFFF [06:50] diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFFFF'. [06:50] jej [06:50] heh [06:50] .u FFFFFFFF [06:50] diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFFFFF'. [06:52] .u FFFFFFF [06:52] diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFFFF'. [06:52] .u 7435 [06:52] U+7435 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-7435 (琵) [06:52] .u 6435 [06:52] U+6435 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-6435 (搵) [06:53] .u E435 [06:53] U+E435 (No name found) [06:53] .u 4435 [06:53] U+4435 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4435 (䐵) [06:53] .u 3435 [06:53] U+3435 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-3435 (㐵) [06:53] .u 2435 [06:53] U+2435 (No name found) [06:53] sigh. [07:35] *** lambdabot joined [07:41] *** LaVolta left [07:42] *** justatheory left [07:58] hi [08:09] *** Su-Shee joined [08:10] good morning [08:11] hello! [08:14] *** ejs joined [08:16] *** Baggiokwok left [08:21] *** mssm joined [08:34] *** cotto left [08:41] OT question: anyone C experts here? [08:49] *** cotto joined [08:53] *** mssm left [09:03] *** gfx left [09:07] *** mssm joined [09:20] *** patspam left [09:32] *** ejs left [09:43] *** ejs joined [09:43] *** mssm left [09:44] *** wu joined [09:45] *** wu is now known as Guest67282 [09:45] *** constant joined [09:45] *** constant left [09:45] *** constant joined [09:49] *** cjk101010 joined [09:52] *** drbean left [10:01] *** Guest67282 left [10:06] *** dr_df0 joined [10:07] *** jackyf joined [10:08] *** dr_df0 left [10:26] *** tmosx joined [10:30] tmosx pasted "directory check" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94174 [10:32] Hello everybody: i don't know if this room is for helping or not. i tried to write to #perl room and i couldn't. the following couple lines in the link above are giving me a headache. [10:33] basically. i'm trying to check if a subdirectory is existing in my current directory or not. if it exists then i will write an image in that subdirectory. ( note: i'm using Image Magick ) [10:33] any help would be appreciated. [10:33] you're checking if it exists in / [10:34] but mkdir-ing it in your current dir [10:34] but then opening it in /. but then passing $file wrong to the Write method [10:34] and anyway, this is a channel for perl6, not perl5. [10:34] you should be able to join #perl, altho you may need to ident with freenode [10:35] oh, and dont use the 2-arg form of open [10:35] i tried to do that .. but it still gave me an error message telling me that i can't write to the group. [10:36] oh, i see. thank you very much. i'll probably try to write #perl one more time. [10:36] thanks huf! [10:37] cheers [10:37] *** meppl joined [10:39] *** mssm joined [10:42] *** k23z__ joined [10:48] *** Su-Shee left [10:55] *** Su-Shee joined [11:01] *** lichtkind joined [11:02] Tene: thanks [11:03] *** f00li5h left [11:03] *** f00li5h joined [11:12] *** drbean joined [11:13] *** tmosx left [11:16] *** cotto left [11:17] *** cotto joined [11:25] *** dakkar joined [12:05] *** ruoso joined [12:12] when got rakudo birth 2,5 jears ago? [12:16] * ruoso very happy with the latest spec changes... [12:17] at the same time I don't like the "magical return" from the iterator, the way it is described now is much more sane... [12:17] since it's just an unthrown exception [12:17] (which might be thrown if "use fatal" is in effect) [12:18] *** LaVolta joined [12:19] and the simplification of the latest change (r29602) makes a very good simplification... [12:23] I'm a bit confused by @(1,2 Z 3,4) # ((1,3),(2,4)) [12:23] does that mean that for 1, 2 Z 3, 4 -> $a { say 1 }; produces only two lines? [12:23] or does the iteration over (1, 3), (2, 4) flatten it? [12:24] ruoso: do you code in K&R / C99 c, for SMOP? [12:24] sjohnson: what's your C question? I might be able to help... [12:25] sjohnson, I think there's nothing exoterical in SMOP code... maybe some of the modules require something special... [12:25] moritz_, signature binding flattens... [12:26] (unless the signature says otherwise) [12:28] colomon: i'm about to learn C, and i keep seeing all these new standards [12:29] i have the K&R C book, but it almost looks as though i should learn the newest standard, and ignore K&R. it is confusing [12:29] in the end, I keep with whatever gcc compiles [12:29] there's C99 and C1X that i worry about [12:30] sjohnson: ah, interesting question. as far as I know, K&R is terribly out of date. But it is considered a classic. [12:30] since gcc is cross-platform and free software, I usually consider it the standard I follow [12:32] sjohnson: if you learn ANSI C or C99, the C1X will probably just add new nice features [12:32] and you can test C99 right away, but the new one won't be implemented by now yet, I guess (not that I would keep a close look) [12:32] sjohnson: I wouldn't worry much about C99 or C1X, they just tweak details without changing the core of the language at all. [12:32] like going from Perl 5.6 to Perl 5.8 or so. [12:33] not at all like going from Perl 5.6 to Perl 6. :) [12:33] *** payload joined [12:33] but C99 just added some details to ANSI C (like better initializers, macros with arbitrary number of parameters) [12:35] sjohnson: unfortunately, I'm not much good for recommending a book: I learned C about 21 years ago, and don't have the faintest memory of what text I used to do it. (Actually, I don't remember learning it at all, I just remember coding some C to get the tape punch hardware to run, and then learning C++ the weekend I came back to the dorm.) [12:36] vorner: how does one learn C99? just learn K&R C, and then learn the differences? or start from C99 somehow [12:36] colomon: thanks anyway. do you prefer C++? [12:36] sjohnson: Yes. Wildly so, actually. [12:37] is the STL a good thing? [12:38] sjohnson: yes. It's still terribly clumsy compared to, say, Perl arrays and hashes, but it's lightyears beyond programming in C. [12:39] sjohnson: Hm, don't know. I started by learning from a czech textbook of ansi-C, using it for some time, then learning some of the fancy things of C99 on the university from friends [12:39] this is an intersting topic of discussion [12:40] colomon: But C++ is inconsistent at places, STL is pain in the ass to debug, and if you learn C and preprocessor well enough, can be easilly got rid of. [12:41] ruoso: please to join the convo [12:41] :) [12:41] vorner: IMO you're verging on insanity there. [12:42] easy now. i know some people who prefer C over the C++ STL [12:42] the author of uTorrent being one of them [12:42] something like std::map packs a fantastic amount of sophisticated tech into a (relatively) easy to learn package. [12:43] colomon: well, I tried it. Generics in C preprocessor aren't really that hard to do. But anyway, C is for low-level or power computing, C++ adds things that do not belong there (like exceptions to language without GC) [12:44] if you show me how the compile-time folding and SSE vectorization of the "eigen" library in C, I might even believe that it works [12:44] *works in C [12:44] moritz_: what is your preference? [12:45] sjohnson: the most appropriate tool for the job [12:45] depending on the job, that's often enough Perl [12:45] moritz_: i've definitely found Perl does 99% of what i need [12:45] but i need to do some power-programming for libs for a Clipper compiler [12:45] which allows C [12:47] .. and curious what your thoughts were [12:48] *** cotto left [12:48] *puppy dog eyes* [12:48] if it allows C, use C [12:49] but do you like C or C++, for those jobs? [12:49] depends on the job [12:49] neither "power-programming" nor "for libs for a Clipper compiler" tells me enough to chose a language [12:50] *** cotto joined [12:50] * vorner knows both of them and avoids them both if there is a reasonable way [12:50] I started in C for real some months before I started on SMOP [12:50] virtually everything I write that doesn't have to be deliverable to a customer is in Perl. :) [12:51] I had some contact around 98... but never really worked with C [12:51] well.. i was more asking about your affection for the languages moritz_. for instance, i LOVE perl, but will use PHP for other tasks, but i dont like PHP... just wondering if you liked / enjoyed either C / C++ [12:51] which is quite understandable, since I worked all the time with information systems (where Perl is far a better choice) [12:52] sjohnson: then I'll tell you that I love Perl. If I can't use Perl, I chose the language that's most appropriate :-) [12:52] haha [12:52] i think i understand [12:52] * ruoso can't find a single reason to use PHP [12:52] either Perl... or drudgery is how i look at it [12:52] ruoso: i use it for really simple inline HTML generation... [12:52] sjohnson: I like C to play with sometimes, like „how low I can get memory consumption for this task“, or „how fast I can generate first 500 000 000 primes“, but not for real „bigger“ jobs. Most my bigger things are either C++/Qt or bunch of languages put randomly together. [12:52] i dont quite know how to do it in Perl yet [12:53] sjohnson, template toolkit... or even mason... [12:54] ok [12:54] will do some research [12:54] ive used the CGI thing before [12:55] but i found it a bit tedious [12:55] ah... that's at least 10 years old [12:58] take a look at Catalyst [12:58] sjohnson, that's how I work with web in Perl today [12:59] interesting [12:59] this is good news [13:00] *** payload left [13:02] * vorner will have to look at catalyst, all his websites are either mostly staticly generated with few CGI scripts either in perl or sh or in mod_perl [13:03] * ruoso thinks merlyn gave the better description for PHP... "PHP: it's like trainning wheels -- without the bike" [13:04] describing it is giving it waaaay too much credit [13:08] *** payload joined [13:08] thanks for the answers everyone [13:28] *** payload left [13:28] *** jackyf left [13:38] *** k23z__ left [13:39] sjohnson: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Mojo/lib/Mojolicious/Lite.pm # also quite fun :) [13:43] (i'm the author of catalyst and mojolicious btw.) [13:48] *** araujo left [13:52] *** wu joined [13:52] *** wu is now known as Guest84743 [14:02] kraih_sri: "who is totally working on a perl6 version of it" isn't he? ;) [14:03] like totally [14:04] kraih_sri: which reminds me.. web sockets? [14:04] working flawless [14:04] kraih_sri: you are my hero. [14:04] *** krakan joined [14:05] Su-Shee: http://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/t/mojolicious/websocket_lite_app.t [14:07] I need my webkit running again. [14:07] webkit nightly works quite well, chrome is full of bugs [14:08] *** Baggiokwok joined [14:08] I have to fix some compile issue first I don't remember anymore how I fixed it last time. :/ [14:12] ah. now I remember. the perl script. [14:12] *** ejs left [14:18] *** snarkyboojum joined [14:25] *** addicted joined [14:25] any simple RTP/RSTP client server code pls? [14:25] *** Baggiokwok left [14:27] *** Baggiokwok joined [14:28] *** jan_ left [14:30] *** slavik joined [14:35] *** drbean left [14:36] *** szabgab joined [14:39] *** Guest84743 left [14:43] *** jferrero joined [14:50] *** Baggiokwok left [14:52] *** nihiliad joined [14:58] *** payload joined [15:06] *** muumi joined [15:09] *** muumi left [15:15] good morning, #perl6 [15:16] goodmorning pm [15:16] pmichaud: its save to say that rakudo in its current form is 2,5 years old? [15:17] I don't know that it's easy to peg a start date. The PAST-based version of Rakudo is only 25 months old, though :-) [15:17] there were versions of the perl6-on-parrot compiler before that, but they used a different (and much more primitive) compiler toolkit [15:19] o/ [15:19] pmichaud: yes that was my impression, im currently reading your old posts from 3 years ago :) [15:24] *** Baggiokwok joined [15:27] *** hicx174 left [15:28] *** hicx174 joined [15:31] pmichaud: what is PAST based i thought NQP based [15:32] yes, nqp-based also [15:32] past was developed in late 2007, along with nqp [15:32] (past is the abstract syntax tree representation used in the compiler toolkit) [15:33] ah [15:33] pmichaud: thanks [15:33] *** jan joined [15:34] *** jan is now known as Guest55752 [15:34] *** araujo joined [15:35] *** Psyche^ joined [15:39] *** Patterner left [15:39] *** Psyche^ is now known as Patterner [15:42] *** Baggiokwok left [15:45] *** lisppaste3 left [15:50] *** LaVolta left [15:53] *** lisppaste3 joined [15:55] *** payload left [15:59] *** moritz_ sets mode: +oooo pmichaud lichtkind colomon2 Su-Shee [16:03] *** snarkyboojum left [16:07] *** iblechbot joined [16:26] *** hicx174 left [16:27] *** hicx174 joined [16:31] *** szabgab left [16:32] *** szabgab joined [16:42] * diakopter finally stops deferring the implementation of the operator precedence parser [16:47] diakopter++ # JFDI :) [16:53] *** justatheory joined [16:53] :) [16:59] *** tmosx joined [17:05] *** tmosx left [17:07] *** jnthn joined [17:19] *** Chillance joined [17:26] *** addicted left [18:01] *** szabgab left [18:02] *** arthur-_ joined [18:09] *** pmurias joined [18:12] *** rgrau joined [18:15] *** szabgab joined [18:22] *** pmurias left [18:55] *** patspam joined [18:58] *** patspam left [19:44] *** payload joined [19:44] *** dugg joined [19:47] *** synth joined [20:05] *** rgrau left [20:17] *** rgrau joined [20:18] who was the guy who set up the perl 6 wiki? [20:18] there are several perl 6 wikis [20:19] i mean the perlfoundation one [20:19] diakopter: oh hi you back, thanks for your time 2 days ago [20:20] diakopter: even if still have some question about sprixel left [20:20] yw [20:20] *** cjk101010 left [20:21] *** pmurias joined [20:22] diakopter: sprixel is once again in C#? [20:22] Tene: did i disturb you yesterday [20:23] lichtkind: no, not at all. If you disturbed me, I just wouldn't talk to you. :) [20:23] Tene: thatswhy i ask, no answer would be also answer :) [20:24] pmurias: yes; I'm porting yet agin [20:24] lichtkind: Please feel free to ask me questions whenever you like. If I'm otherwise busy, I'll just ignore you. [20:25] Tene: excellent [20:27] diakopter: you are switching between two code bases or rewriting from scratch [20:28] pmurias: rewriting (hand translating) each time [20:30] *** szbalint joined [20:39] *** pmurias left [20:39] *** pmurias joined [20:40] *** ejs joined [20:51] *** tomaw left [20:53] *** tomaw joined [21:08] *** zorgnax joined [21:13] *** wu joined [21:14] *** wu is now known as Guest24562 [21:34] *** tomaw left [21:34] *** tomaw joined [21:40] *** ejs left [21:50] *** pmurias left [21:50] who was the guy who set up the tpf perl 6 wiki? [22:01] *** k23z__ joined [22:13] *** pmurias joined [22:14] *** dakkar left [22:21] lichtkind: probably the person listed at revision 2 of http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?action=revision_list;page_name=perl_6 :) [22:22] r29603 | pmurias++ | [mildew] -Cssa prints out a graph of the blocks [22:22] *** dugg left [22:23] Khisanth: thanks i think his nick is petdance [22:23] *** payload left [22:23] lichtkind: he goes by alester now [22:23] usually [22:24] alester is register, petdance is not [22:29] Khisanth: what alester? [22:29] that is the nick he uses [22:29] he hasn't used petdance for a while [22:30] ah [22:30] i wrote to his perlbuzz adress anyway :) [22:30] on irc.perl.org he is just Andy [22:38] *** iblechbot left [22:39] *** pnate left [22:43] *** payload joined [22:44] *** pnate joined [22:49] *** pnate left [22:49] *** Su-Shee left [22:52] *** patspam joined [22:58] *** pmurias left [23:01] *** uniejo joined [23:10] *** betterworld joined [23:20] *** astinus joined [23:33] *** uniejo left [23:50] *** PacoLinux left