»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by diakopter on 25 January 2010.
masak heh, this is going to take some time to clean up. even for a masakbot. 00:00
diakopter (which did you submit, "first" or "second")
masak diakopter: both, as one.
diakopter oh
masak diakopter: thought that's why you presented them as a pair.
diakopter: they're kinda related.
diakopter rakudo: my (::eval $x); say $x # not sure this a bug. I think that's a Parrot error. 00:01
p6eval rakudo a215ee: OUTPUT«Lexical 'eval' not found␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
masak might be a TODO.
diakopter rakudo: say my ::say (say $z) # probably a dupe 00:02
p6eval rakudo a215ee: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
diakopter rakudo: my ($x = 1; $z = $x):my say $x # jnthn had a laugh about this one 00:03
p6eval rakudo a215ee: OUTPUT«Method 'panic' not found for invocant of class 'Regex;Match'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Actions;trait' pc 188197 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:7201)␤»
masak submits rakudobug
whaaaa... :)
masak submits and laughs, too
diakopter: how do you find all these? 00:04
jnthn std: my ($x = 1; $z = $x):my say $x
p6eval std 29857: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/pkJ26itG21 line 1:␤------> my ($x = 1; $z = $x):my ⏏say $x␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement modifier loop␤ trait␤FAILED 00:01 108m␤»
jnthn heh
masak usually when someone finds that many bugs, they're doing something cool behind the scenes.
lichtkind masak: i asked myself, i really cant hack on november, kephra an ra are more pressing 00:05
masak lichtkind: that only half made sense. 00:06
Ra, the egyptian god?
jnthn > my %h = a => 4, b => 2; say %h{'a', 'b'}
42
\o/
diakopter masak: first it starts with having a curiousity about the implementation method of some feature. Then I get this model in my head of how it might be implemented. Then I try to find the edge/corners.
masak jnthn++
diakopter: I think I love you.
lichtkind *romance*
masak seriously, that's what I do too. all the time. 00:07
diakopter masak: usually my initial model is way wrong about how it's implemented.
lichtkind masak: yes i like egyptian names but ra stands for rebol army, i thinking to start a rebol compiler for parrot
masak lichtkind: wow, wicked! 00:08
diakopter std: {nom,nom,nom}.WHAT.say 00:10
p6eval std 29857: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤ 'nom' used at line 1,1,1␤ok 00:01 106m␤»
diakopter rakudo: {nom,nom,nom}.WHAT.say
p6eval rakudo a215ee: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
diakopter I mean, seems to me it should warn 00:11
jnthn diakopter: Just NYI yet, that's all.
diakopter masak: you saw the failed assertion? 00:12
masak not sure I did.
jnthn
.oO( useless double use of yet )
masak well, it does ring a bell, but I'm not sure why...
diakopter rakudo: .=()
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«src/hash.c:144: failed assertion 's'␤Backtrace - Obtained 17 stack frames (max trace depth is 32).␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0 [0x2b5d22928d03]␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0(Parrot_confess+0x87) [0x2b5d22928e37]␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0
..[0x2b5d2…
masak right. 00:13
masak submits rakudobug
diakopter I emailed parrot-dev a week ago; no reply
masak oh yeah, I submitted that one a week ago too. 00:14
diakopter rakudo: [[]].perl.say; [[]].''().perl.say # I don't know why there's an empty method here...
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«[[]]␤[]␤»
masak diakopter: I don't think parrot-dev should be approached with Perl 6 code. just a feeling. they tend to throw themselves on PIR code, though.
masak submits rakudobug 00:15
lichtkind masak: chromatic said it should be easy but i have no clue about HLL tools and currently just learning the synax :)
diakopter Far be it, far be it from me, that I could find the generated PIR, let alone paste it to parrot-dev 00:16
masak lichtkind: I wish you good luck, sir.
lichtkind thanks
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lichtkind masak: there are some cool ideas i would like to incorporate into perl 00:17
colomon our Item multi reduce ( Code $expression ;; *@values ) # why the semis? 00:20
masak battery out; gotta go.
in total, that was six rakudobugs. diakopter++
diakopter eehw 00:21
lue nooo!
masak colomon: so that *@values don't participate in dispatch arbitration?
g'nite.
colomon huh. 00:22
diakopter rakudo: ::eval..::eval 00:24
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in can()␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6protoobject;ACCEPTS' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤»
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snarkyboojum rakudo: my @test[2]; @test[4] = 'test'; 00:31
p6eval rakudo 852213: ( no output )
jnthn My hash slicing patch has some issues, so I'll finish it up and get it pushed tomorrow, when I'm less tired. 00:34
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lue hello? 00:48
bkeeler_ Time to go home, laters... 00:56
jnthn -> sleep 00:59
lue Aw, everyone's leaving. Just when I got here :( 01:00
pmichaud I'm still around :-) 01:05
lichtkind pmichaud: thanks for www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ck_michaud 01:09
pmichaud lichtkind: you're welcome :) 01:10
[particle] rakudo: for (1..Inf) -> $x { say $x } 01:11
p6eval rakudo 852213: ( no output )
[particle] of course that won't work here...
duh, buffered output
lue darn the car wash :) 01:14
snarkyboojum my @data = 1, 5, 6; say @data[*-2]; # this will be cool :) 01:19
lue you know what's cooler? rakudo: 01:21
snarkyboojum how much of Perl 6 did pugs implement, and how would rakudo compare now?
colomon rakudo: (1..Inf).map({ .say }).batch(10)
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
m-locks rakudo: my @data = 1, 5, 6; say @data[*-2]
snarkyboojum (probably an oft asked question)
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤»
lue tough to say (I certainly don't know)
snarkyboojum esp given that the spec has since changed as has the test suite etc 01:22
but was just wondering if there was a ballpark :)
could run pugs against the existing spec test and then rakudo and compare numbers praps :)
std: my @data = 1, 4; say @data[0..12]:v; 01:23
p6eval std 29857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤» 01:24
colomon rakudo: say "a\c[COMBINING DIAERESIS]"
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«a􏿽xCC􏿽x88􏿽xE2􏿽x90􏿽xA4»
snarkyboojum rakudo: my @data = 1, 4; say @data[0..12]:v;
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say @data["␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
snarkyboojum the kind of stuff you'll be able to do with arrays in perl6 is just orgasmic :) 01:25
colomon rakudo: say (1...10)
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«12345678910␤»
colomon rakudo: say (1...10).Str
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10␤»
colomon rakudo: say ~(1...10)
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10␤»
colomon Huh.
snarkyboojum does that do a concat on each element in the range or something? 01:26
rakudo: (1...10).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 852213: ( no output )
colomon snarkyboojum: It's not a Range, it's a series, which is just a "list" (ie an iterator).
rakudo: say (1...10).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«GatherIterator()␤»
snarkyboojum that's it :)
snarkyboojum is still very much learning 01:27
colomon So ~(1...10) is the stringification of that Iterator.
I'm trying to sort out a test issue, and that was my first try to see what was going on.
rakudo: say "".comb 01:28
snarkyboojum oic .. the ~ is stringification?
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«␤»
colomon snarkyboojum: yes.
snarkyboojum colomon: ok cheers
snarkyboojum goes to do more reading
colomon rakudo: say ~("".comb)
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«␤»
colomon rakudo: say ("".comb).Str
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«␤»
colomon rakudo: my $a = "".comb; say "$a" 01:30
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«␤»
colomon rakudo: my $a = "".comb; say "here is $a";
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«here is ␤»
snarkyboojum S09 talks about PDLs .. but it's not defined anywhere.. what is a PDL?
pdl.perl.org? 01:31
colomon rakudo: say "".comb eq ()
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«0␤»
snarkyboojum thinks he just answered his own question 01:32
colomon snarkyboojum: that would be my guess.
snarkyboojum pdl looks pretty darn hardcore
v. cool
colomon I think I saw someone today suggesting that stuff was very under-specified in p6. I'm pretty sure none of it works yet in Rakudo.
snarkyboojum is impressed that a perl 6 spec is talking about tensor mathematics 01:33
:)
colomon rakudo: use Test; is "".comb, (), 'comb on empty string'; 01:36
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«"load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'Test.pir'␤current instr.: '!use' pc 357532 (src/gen/core.pir:51912)␤»
colomon not ok 1 - comb on empty string 01:39
# got: GatherIterator.new()
# expected: ()
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colomon pmichaud: any notions? This is the test results I'm getting from the code a few lines up... 01:39
pmichaud looks to me like an iterator is being returned as a scalar
we have that issue in a few places still.
colomon ah, so sort of the flip side of the pair issue from earlier. 01:40
pmichaud right
we still need some work on flattening semantics in various places
where is comb() defined?
colomon any-list.pm, I think. 01:41
er, any-str.pm
line 22
pmichaud looking 01:43
pugssvn r29858 | Util++ | [t/spec] Typo
ewilhelm pugs: for 1..3 -> $i, $j { say "$i $j" }
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 2␤3 ␤»
ewilhelm rakudo: for 1..3 -> $i, $j { say "$i $j" } 01:44
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«1 2␤StopIteration␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
ewilhelm this is going to be a fun talk :-D
snarkyboojum noticed a little typo in S09-data.pod at line 521, "These last three" should be "These last two" (if I'm not mistaken) 01:46
lue if ever you need error messages (re)written in Rakudo, just ask me! I'd have fun with it :) 01:47
colomon afk # rocking
snarkyboojum wishes he could add more value than noticing small typos :) 01:48
lichtkind pmichaud: found something?
colomon: yre you a dev?
lue noms ready. See you later. 01:50
snarkyboojum see ya lue
pmichaud colomon: oh yes, of course! 01:57
pmichaud figures it out, at least partially
when we call is "".comb(), (), 'comb on an empty string' 01:58
the result of .comb() is a GatherIterator, and it's getting bound to a scalar inside of is()
01:59 lue left
pmichaud we probably need the result to be a List with a GatherIterator 01:59
either that or a GatherIterator in item context needs to become a Seq 02:01
snarkyboojum rakudo: say "Test".comb(/./, 1) 02:08
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«T␤»
snarkyboojum rakudo: say "Test".comb(1)
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'comb'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
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pmichaud so, if I have: 02:21
my $a = $*IN.lines();
what should $a end up being?
and similarly, if I have: 02:23
my $b = "Test".comb;
what should $b end up being?
sjohnson i got paid in beer and pizza to help someone with perl today! 02:27
oh joyous day
lichtkind good night 02:28
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kborer std: grep.say 02:32
p6eval std 29858: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 105m␤»
kborer rakudo: grep.say
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 2␤current instr.: 'grep' pc 233387 (src/gen/core.pir:5326)␤»
kborer std: say.say 02:34
p6eval std 29858: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/8pUrqGweNR line 1:␤------> say⏏.say␤ok 00:01 105m␤»
kborer rakudo: say.say
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«␤1␤»
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sjohnson M--- 02:38
oops
kborer std: say ....WHAT 02:39
p6eval std 29858: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 105m␤»
kborer rakudo: say ....WHAT
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '&fail' pc 16557 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:364)␤»
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arlinius rakudo: .say 02:49
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
arlinius rakudo: .say.say
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Mu()␤1␤»
arlinius rakudo: .say.say.say
colomon pmichaud: sorry for disappearing. son is refusing to sleep tonight, I finally dragged my laptop into the nursery
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Mu()␤1␤1␤»
arlinius rakudo: .say.say.say.die 02:50
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Mu()␤1␤1␤Method 'die' not found for invocant of class 'Bool'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
arlinius rakudo: my $foo = *.say 02:51
p6eval rakudo 852213: ( no output )
arlinius rakudo: (my $foo = *.say).say
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«!whatever_dispatch_helper␤»
arlinius rakudo: (my $foo = *.say).(312412421432) 02:52
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«312412421432␤»
arlinius rakudo: (my $foo = *.say).(my $foo = *.say)
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Redeclaration of symbol $foo at line 11, near " = *.say)"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
arlinius rakudo: (my $foo = *.say).(my $bar = *.say)
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "(my $foo ="␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
arlinius hrm
rakudo: (my $foo = *.say).(my $bar := *.say) 02:53
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«:= binding of variables not yet implemented␤current instr.: '&die' pc 16459 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:317)␤»
arlinius rakudo: (my $foo = *.say).((my $bar := *.say)) 02:54
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«:= binding of variables not yet implemented␤current instr.: '&die' pc 16459 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:317)␤»
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diakopter rakudo: /d/(44) # masakbot 03:10
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Method '!cursor_start' not found for invocant of class 'Integer'␤current instr.: '_block46' pc 298 (EVAL_1:126)␤»
supernovus Well, in addition to porting my Perl 5 CMS to Perl 6, I'm also going to try my hand at implementing a SCGI library for Perl 6. I looked at the FastCGI specification, and am not ready to try to implement that (yet). But SCGI looks pretty straightforward. I'll post it to github when I have something that works.
diakopter rakudo: say ~/' '/ 03:12
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«_block46␤»
diakopter rakudo: ...................say 03:14
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '&fail' pc 16557 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:364)␤»
colomon rakudo: say Mu 03:15
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
colomon rakudo: say Mu()
p6eval rakudo 852213: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &Mu␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
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pugssvn r29859 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Hardcore refudging on substr.t. 03:38
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dalek kudo/master: 8df8ad7 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Any-str.pm:
Try to handle the .substr cases where $start is outside the length of the string.
 03:55
kudo/master: 403afe0 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on substr.t.
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pmichaud colomon: seems like $start outside the length of string should perhaps fail() ? 04:06
colomon pmichaud: good point 04:23
pugssvn r29860 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Unfudge tests that now work. pmichaud++ 04:29
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hejki has masak been around lately? 04:53
colomon yes 04:54
hejki good
tfti 04:55
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colomon rakudo: say i 04:58
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &i␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
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lue hello 05:35
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snarkyboojum rakudo: eval "say 'hi'" 05:42
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«hi␤»
snarkyboojum rakudo: eval ";jlaksdf;a43lkjaf"
p6eval rakudo 403afe: ( no output )
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lue I hate lowpoints of a freenode-day :/ 06:25
TimToady I blame the Pacific Ocean. 06:26
lue It's shrinking. That's the problem 06:28
The Alantic needs to stop growing.
06:29 iblechbot joined
lue What kind of a time system would be suitable for the Internet? Something independant of timezones (or even Earth, ideally)... 06:33
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hejki unixtime? 06:50
lue probably. But the epoch is terribly Earth-arrogant :) 06:52
TimToady what, the kind of unixtime that can't even tell the difference between one second and two when there's a leap second?
if you don't make it earth-based you'll have to worry about relativistic effects 06:53
even the GPS sats have to worry about that.
lue How's about a second not defined as vibrations of Cesium?
TimToady I think the latest most accurate time-base they announced a month or so ago was Aluminum
before that was Mercury, I believe 06:54
lue there's always Cosmic Time.
TimToady Cesium is like, ancient
snarkyboojum how about using 'Pirahã' time :)
TimToady that would be helpful if the cosmos actually could make up its mind about it, but it can't
lue Well, everywhere I've seem Cesium (not sure of Wikipedia though) 06:55
TimToady currently used atomic clocks are Cesium, yes 06:56
but they keep developing more accurate ones
lue (who here believes time is the 4th Euclidian dimension?)
TimToady I believe in light cones 06:57
hejki i believe in tin foil hats
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TimToady tin is not very accurate 06:57
lue I believe that the Universe is part of the Multiverse is part of the Omniverse is part of the Verse is part of the Song :)
snarkyboojum is part of a bag of marbles 06:58
lue There's also Uni-/Multi-/Omni- Chorus
(I ought to post my theories sometime)
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TimToady Song is 宋 in Chinese, so that must mean something. 06:58
as in, Song Dynasty 06:59
lue The Song resides in 'Heaven' (whatever you would call it)
I has a bed. And it needs my sleep.
06:59 lue left
TimToady me is trying to make a pun on Song Freud and failing... 07:00
hejki Failian slip
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Su-Shee good morning 07:24
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eternaleye ... I think I'm slow. I just realized that Mu could be backronymed to Most Undefined as well as being 無　('mu' == 'nothing' :lang<ja_JP>), which I got immediately 07:52
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pugssvn r29861 | pmurias++ | [mildew] handle ¢ in optC 09:06
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jonasbn mberends: ping 11:08
11:20 mssm joined 11:33 pmurias joined
mberends jonasbn: I shall pong you in about 60 minutes ;) 11:48
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jonasbn great 11:55
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colomon o/ 12:18
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jnthn o/ 12:34
mberends jonasbn: pong, at last 12:38
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jonasbn mberends: the OSD people say that they have not received an abstract from you 12:42
do you want to save your talk for Sunday instead
then we just schedule it ourselves 12:43
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masak oh hai, #perl6 13:15
13:15 masak left
jnthn That was a short visit. 13:15
takadonet morning all 13:17
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jaffa4 hi 13:27
colomon o/
jaffa4 dalek
colomon exterminate 13:29
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colomon hmmm, if we could get 425 more passing tests today, we'd break 25,000 passing.... 13:35
masak \o/
colomon: you're amazing.
colomon how so? (and how are you coming on 1000 bugs?) 13:36
jnthn colomon: That'd take...some effort. :-)
masak colomon: it's just so cool watching the spectest suite come back online. and I know it takes a lot of tuits to do so. 13:37
colomon jnthn: if we could do 100 in an hour, or whatever it was last night, we ought to be able to do 425 today, right? :D
jnthn ;-)
colomon: I got a bunch of "try to make it fast enough" work to do on $other-project at the moment, but once I've done that I can look at Rakudo. :-) 13:38
colomon I too need to work on $work. :)
Actually, getting Rakudo stuff done is frequently a sign my life has gotten too chaotic to get much $work done. Rakudo (or at least the parts I work on) tends to come in much smaller, easier to understand bits. 13:39
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jorgegomes hello, I'm a Perl developper in France, and I would like to paticipate to the perl6 adventure, so Camelia sent me here. How can I get started??? 13:41
masak jorgegomes: first off: welcome! 13:43
moritz_ hi
colomon o/
jorgegomes Thanks!!! 13:44
moritz_ jorgegomes: what would you like to do? help writing tests? a compiler? modules? documentation? infrastructure?
jorgegomes I would be glad to make module, and documentation.
masak cool! \o/
13:44 jonasbn left
masak jorgegomes: the overriding schedule, by the way, is that Rakudo Star is coming out sometime later this spring. probably April. 13:44
jorgegomes: a lot of things should be ready by then. 13:45
jorgegomes OK, so how can I join the group???
moritz_ 1) get a github account; tell us your account name 13:46
2) chose a module to work on; put it on github
3) add it to projects.list on github.com/masak/proto/
4) ...
5) profit! fun! whatever you want :-)
jorgegomes OK... I'll do it right now.
Nice...
moritz_ projects.list also gives you a good idea what modules are already available (not all that many...) 13:47
masak if you can't think of a new project to create, there are a lot of existing ones that could use an extra set of eyes and hands.
13:48 mssm left
masak jorgegomes: also, if you're a blogger, just publishing your experiences to the world is a great help to us. 13:48
jorgegomes No, problem...
I'll be right back... 13:49
13:49 jorgegomes left
masak I think that went well. 13:49
13:50 jlaire joined
colomon rakudo: ucfirst("üüüü") 13:50
p6eval rakudo 403afe: ( no output )
colomon rakudo: say ucfirst("üüüü")
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«Üüüü␤»
masak \ü/
colomon oooooo..... more easily won back tests!
jnthn wÜÜt 13:51
masak üh no, more püns... 13:52
alternately, 'here we gü again...'
szbalint I'm so glad I have ü on my keyboard :) 13:54
jaffa4 masak: where would you publish it?
pugssvn r29862 | masak++ | [S09] fixed thinko discovered by snarkyboojum++ 13:55
masak jaffa4: publish what?
jaffa4 an experience on Perl 6
I published but I got few views.
masak jaffa4: I don't know... somewhere I feel comfortable blogging.
jaffa4: right now, use.perl.org works for me, but only barely.
jaffa4 how many views do you get for a posting? 13:56
masak jaffa4: getting many views shouldn't be your primary goal, I don't think.
jnthn use.perl.org only works because some other options work less. :-)
And those that work more require more effort.
masak jaffa4: sometimes almost none, sometimes a lot. but I have no real way to measure except by the comments people make on- and off-blog.
jaffa4 then it is not very good. 13:57
masak jnthn: the p6advent experience showed me that it's probably not a big deal to set up a wordpress blog and start blogging there.
13:57 uniejo left
masak jaffa4: you have a tendency to offend (probably unwittingly) in just a few sentences. 13:57
jaffa4 it is not very good that you do not know how many views you have got. 13:58
colomon rakudo: say uc("ß")
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«SS␤»
jaffa4 masak, I mean the blogging site, not your blog. 13:59
masak jaffa4: I'm not that bothered by not knowing. I'm not a SEO or anything. I don't get a higher cut if I pull in more views.
13:59 uniejo joined
masak jaffa4: no, use.perl.org is not extremely good, that's true. 13:59
jnthn masak: I pondred that. 14:00
masak: I also wondered about a Wordpress MultiUser instance at blogs.perl6.org or some such.
masak: It's nice to have a "collective" place, as it were.
masak aye. 14:01
PerlJam +1 blogs.perl6.org
good $localtime
moritz_ fwiw, perlgeek.de gets 14k to 25k visitors per month
moritz_ would prever blogs.perl6.org to be an aggregator
s/prever/prefer/
like planetsix
less administration required
jnthn moritz_: I'm not sure that has to be an either/or.
masak I'm thinking we should repeat the p6advent success in some form already this summer. maybe create an adventure game in 30 days or something. 14:02
rakudo: /d/(44) # from diakopterbot
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«Method '!cursor_start' not found for invocant of class 'Integer'␤current instr.: '_block46' pc 298 (EVAL_1:126)␤»
masak submits rakudobug
jnthn hehe
pmichaud good morning, #perl6 14:03
PerlJam masak: how about the N days of Rakudo Star? :)
14:03 mssm joined
PerlJam (again starting with how to obtain and install Rakudo Star) 14:04
jnthn pmichaud! \o/
PerlJam: I like that
PerlJam: Maybe "N cool things in Rakudo *" or something?
"A cool thing in Rakudo *, each day, every day" 14:05
Or some such.
PerlJam that could even dovetail with masak's game idea.
pmichaud <colomon> ... Rakudo (or at least the parts I work on) tends to come in much smaller, easier to understand bits.
somehow I never thought I'd see "smaller, easier to understand" used with Rakudo :-) 14:06
std: /d/(44)
p6eval std 29861: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
masak PerlJam, jnthn: yes to all of the above :) 14:07
jnthn Awesome. We haz a plan. 14:08
PerlJam and as long as we keep N underspecified, it goes on forever! :)
masak oh, I thought that was a metasyntactic variable. 14:09
better to fix it, methinks, and make the project finite.
frettled masak: yup
Sorry, no kanelbulle today.
masak I understand.
need to ration.
frettled Apparently there is a delivery problem. 14:10
masak must be the snow.
14:10 jnthn sets mode: +oo frettled masak
jnthn is happy to share is kamelbulle 14:10
masak \o/
jnthn er, kanelbulle
masak haha! 14:11
jnthn Though maybe since this is #perl6, kamel is appropriate too. :-)
masak frettled: we should bake kamelbullar some time.
"it has cinnamon, sugar, and two humps" 14:12
14:12 athenot joined
PerlJam heh 14:12
jnthn There's more tha one way to bake it.
14:12 uniejo left 14:14 Guest75711 left
PerlJam somehow though "camel buns" doesn't quite evoke the right imagery that "cinnamon buns" does. 14:14
perhaps it's just too close phonetically to "camel dung" or something. 14:15
masak that's only one reason Scandinavian is superior. we don't have that problem at all.
jnthn looks forward to learning the superior language 14:16
:-P
jaffa4 is replacement working now?
frettled \o/ 14:17
jnthn: Yeah!
jaffa4 is replacement working now in Perl6?
frettled masak: Yes, we should do that.
PerlJam jaffa4: you mean subst ?
jnthn jaffa4: replacement?
jaffa4 something like that
jnthn rakudo: say "poor".subst(/poo/, 'bee') 14:18
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«beer␤»
jnthn Somewhat. :-)
PerlJam heh
14:18 mssm left
PerlJam Interesting recipe for beer 14:18
pmichaud rakudo: say "beer".subst(/bee/, 'poo') # a poor substitute for beer
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«poor␤»
jnthn <groan> 14:19
jaffa4 what about g in ?
regular expressions?
pmichaud rakudo: say "peer".subst(/e/, 'o', :global);
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«poer␤»
pmichaud looks like nyi
masak submits rakuodbug
colomon pmichaud: Rakudo src/Perl6 + builtins + core is about 10,000 lines of code, with lots of tests and other very smart people working on it. $work is 200,000 lines of C++ and Perl, much of it hard-to-test, and only me working on it.
PerlJam colomon: rewrite $work in Perl 6 ;) 14:20
14:20 frettled sets mode: +o colomon
takadonet colomon: Looks like we are in the same boat 14:20
pmichaud
.oO("boat number?")
jnthn colomon: Don't forget src/pmc and src/binder :-P
takadonet colomon: Half a million lines of perl 5 code but there is two of us working on it at least :P 14:21
PerlJam boat number is how many people you have to push overboard to maintain bouyancy
colomon PerlJam: As soon as Rakudo is stable enough and with good C++ bindings, rewriting big hunks of the support code in Perl 6 will wander onto my to-do list. :)
jaffa4 rakudo: m:g/f/; 14:22
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "m:g/f/;"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
colomon jnthn: I only counted areas I've made actual changes to Rakudo. Obviously parrot, etc represents a lot of additional complexity, but most of it stays safely out of my view as a Rakudo dev. :)
jnthn jaffa4: Regex modifiers are on the ROADMAP as fairly high priority.
frettled Crikey. It looks like $orkplace has around 100-300 000 lines of Perl code. 14:23
jaffa4 so it is not implemented
jnthn colomon: Lucky thing!
frettled Perl 5, though
jnthn ;-)
PerlJam patience jaffa4-san
colomon hey, who pushed to Rakudo while I was spectesting? ;)
jnthn jaffa4: Correct.
It wasn't me. :-)
frettled colomon: someone fixed the bug you were about to report? :)
jaffa4 it is a miracle that you have the dedication.
masak jaffa4: seeing the light at the end of the tunnel helps. 14:24
pmichaud
.oO("Oncoming train!!!!!")
frettled we're about to be rail-roaded 14:25
dalek kudo/master: d588cd2 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
spectest-progress.csv update: 215 files, 24575 (68.7% of 35754) pass, 1 fail

S02-whitespace_and_comments/one-pass-parsing.t 1 - can parse non-backslashed curly and right bracket in cclass
kudo/master: 4fc3af7 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Any-str.pm:
Add protos for uc, lc, ucfirst, and lcfirst.
masak pmichaud: yes. the Perl 6 train :)
pugssvn r29863 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Defudge "calling positional params by name" and "unicode" tests, and refudge skips to todos.
frettled Since Perl 6 doesn't have rails, does that mean we're maglev?
PerlJam Just about the time you see the light at the end of the tunnel someone goes and snuffs it out
pmichaud std: m:g/xyz/ 14:26
p6eval std 29862: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 108m␤»
frettled masak: wouldn't that be a cool name for the Rails-killing Perl 6 tech? :D
Perl 6 Maglev
pmichaud Perl 6 Oncoming Train
masak 哈哈
colomon Those changes get us 14 more passing tests. :) Now the house is empty and quiet, so I should $work.
jnthn colomon++ 14:27
frettled Oh, bother: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagLev_%28Rub...rpreter%29
jaffa4 $work?
pmichaud (yes, "Maglev" is a great name for a killer app)
jaffa4 what is $work?
Is it defined?
masak still thinks we should call some killer app "Context"
PerlJam Perl 6 Choo Choo (we can appeal to the kids! ;) 14:28
masak The Little Perl 6 That Could.
Su-Shee we could name it trail or caravan ;) 14:31
14:32 cognominal joined
masak hm. jorgegomes never did come back, did he? 14:33
PerlJam nyet 14:34
colomon rakudo: say index("uuúuúuùù", "úuù")
p6eval rakudo 403afe: ( no output )
masak submits rakudobug 14:35
even locally, that oneliner produces nothing.
rakudo: say index("uuúuúuùù", "úuù"); say "alive"
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«alive␤»
masak isn't that strange? 14:36
I don't have an explanation for where the first newline goes.
jnthn wtf
PerlJam weird indeed
jnthn Me either.
PerlJam rakudo: say index("abcdefgh", "def"); 14:37
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«3␤»
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuúuùù", "úuù");
p6eval rakudo 403afe: ( no output )
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuúuùù", "u");
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«1␤»
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuúuùù", "ú"); 14:38
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«0␤»
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuúuùù", "ù");
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«4␤»
frettled masak: «Context» is only used by two apps according to Wikipedia: 1) a macro package for TeX; 2) an Windows text editor.
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuúuùù", "ùù");
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«4␤»
masak frettled: huh.
14:38 mssm joined
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuúuùù", "úu"); 14:38
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«0␤»
colomon haven't we seen the missing newline for say issue before?
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuúuùù", "úuù");
p6eval rakudo 403afe: ( no output )
frettled masak: It sucks that almost all the good names are taken. 14:39
colomon rakudo: index("úuúuùù", "úuù") ~~ Fail
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &Fail␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuùuúú", "úuù");
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«0␤»
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuùuúú", "ùuú");
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«2␤»
masak frettled: I don't think that's true; but it might easily seem that way.
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuùuúù", "ùuú"); 14:40
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«2␤»
frettled masak: «Frettler» is available! \o/
masak frettled: :)
jnthn: have I shown you this yet? www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_dtMln5JXI
frettled masak: also «Fretless»
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuù", "úuù");
p6eval rakudo 403afe: OUTPUT«0␤»
frettled masak: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless 14:41
nice, eh?
jnthn masak: No :-)
masak jnthn: the comment at 1:37 is priceless.
PerlJam rakudo: say index("ùuúuù", "úuù");
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«2␤»
masak frettled: "Fretless" would be an excellent name for some community app. a bug tracker or something. 14:42
14:42 jaldhar joined
frettled «No need to fret» 14:42
masak 'xactly.
frettled Hmm. 14:43
Perhaps it's a good name for my vaporware calendar. 14:44
14:44 cognominal left
pmichaud 14:38 <PerlJam> rakudo: say index("úuúuùù", "úuù"); 14:52
14:38 <p6eval> rakudo 403afe: ( no output )
I call parrotbug.
masak should I add that to the rakudobug ticket? 14:53
pmichaud code coming up.
masak that does explain it, by the way.
pmichaud nopaste.snit.ch/19794 # bug with index op? 14:55
jnthn Parrot FAIL.
masak adds this to the RT ticket 14:56
colomon That doesn't explain the missing newline from say, does it? 14:57
masak actually, no.
colomon rakudo: say index("hello", "elf"); 14:58
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: ( no output )
masak except that a -1 probably translates into a Failute of some kind.
s/ute/ure/
pmichaud fail("Substring '$substring' not found in '{self}'") if $result < 0;
colomon Yes, it becomes a fail.
masak ok, so the bug is actually two bugs.
one Parrot-based, and one having to do with &fail
pmichaud rakudo: say index("hello", "elf").WHAT; 14:59
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Failure()␤»
pmichaud ah, yes.
stringifying the failure causes it to throw the exception
so say() never gets a chance to output the newline.
mberends aww, now jonasbn is gone with his OSD question about a talk abstract :( 15:00
masak that's it, then.
pmichaud that, to me, is not a bug.
masak I don't see the failure being thrown, either.
pmichaud yeah, that part is an error
Perhaps the failure is being thrown but we're never seeing the message? 15:01
rakudo: sub foo() { fail 'bar'; 'xyz' }; say foo();
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: ( no output )
pmichaud parrot bug gets weirder: nopaste.snit.ch/19795 15:03
masak o.O 15:04
15:05 SmokeMachine joined
masak so, just Unicode strings make the problem occur? 15:05
bbkr .u ó
phenny U+00F3 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH ACUTE (ó)
colomon Though there were Unicode string examples in the backlog there that worked, right?
It's not just all Unicode strings fail.
masak ok.
colomon rakudo: say index("ùuúuù", "úuù"); 15:06
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«2␤»
pmichaud I think it may be whenever it starts to get a partial match, but then has to fail that match and try again 15:07
masak pmichaud++
PerlJam rakudo: say index("úuúuù", "úuù");
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: ( no output )
pmichaud rakudo: say index("úaúuù", "úuù");
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«2␤»
PerlJam rakudo: say index("ababc", "abc"); 15:08
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«2␤»
PerlJam and only unicode
pmichaud that one is different -- the string is ascii
PerlJam right, just checkign
pmichaud but it fails with ascii chars in unicode:
15:08 iblechbot joined
pmichaud rakudo: say index("ababc«", "abc"); 15:08
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: ( no output )
PerlJam weird
colomon That seems like a very nicely narrowed down bug. :) 15:09
masak scary.
Tene rakudo: say index("ababcd", "abc") 15:10
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«2␤»
masak huh! 15:11
does the match have to be at the end of the string?
PerlJam no. just that there must be one unicode char in the string
(I guess that promotes the entire string to unicode)
masak makes sense. 15:12
PerlJam Is there a Perl6 equivalent to the parrot unicode:"..." ?
qu// or something?
masak PerlJam: "..."
pmichaud PerlJam: no, all strings in Perl 6 are "unicode"
PerlJam Clearly not :)
pmichaud PerlJam: your question doesn't make sense. :) 15:13
PerlJam I know.
pmichaud if you're asking if there's a Perl 6 equivalent to obtaining the same representation that Parrot uses when it has unicode:"...", the answer is utf8
as in: my utf8 $buf = "..." 15:14
(or something like that)
15:14 marton_ joined
PerlJam does that work in rakudo? 15:14
pmichaud nyi 15:15
PerlJam alpha: say index("úuúuù", "úuù"); 15:16
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Substring 'úuù' not found in 'úuúuù'␤␤»
PerlJam (that kind of gives us a range of when the problem started I guess) 15:17
pmichaud well, there's two problems.
PerlJam er, problems
pmichaud one is that failures aren't being thrown properly in master
the other is that the substring isn't being founds
*found
the latter problem (substring not found) apparently exists in parrot all the way back through Parrot 1.0.0 (I tested) 15:18
jnthn Wow!
15:18 jaffa4 left
pmichaud (it likely exists pre-1.0.0, I only have 1.0.0 and later readily available here) 15:18
PerlJam This is one of those "testing is not a panacea" moments because I would have thought there would be parrot tests for index and such. 15:19
(tests that would have caught this problem before now) 15:20
pmichaud there are parrot tests for index. I suspect there aren't many unicode-based ones.
colomon PerlJam: we have tests for this, but they are skipped with the label "Unicode".
masak it's be interesting to know more about the nature of the Parrot bug that causes this.
PerlJam colomon: ha!
colomon That's how I found the problem, I was looking for Unicode skips that could be unfudged.
masak would make good material for a blog post.
15:21 nihiliad joined
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz($x) { say $x; }; xyz('abc'.comb); 15:22
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz($x) { say ~$x; }; xyz('abc'.comb);
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(Mu $x) { say ~$x; }; xyz('abc'.comb); 15:23
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
15:23 aesop joined
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(Mu $x) { say $x eq 'abc' }; xyz('abc'.comb); 15:24
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«0␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(Mu $x) { say $x eq 'a b c' }; xyz('abc'.comb);
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon rakudo: sub xyz(Mu $x, Mu $y) { say $x eq $y}; xyz('abc'.comb, <a b c>);
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«0␤»
colomon rakudo: sub xyz(Mu $x) { say ~$x; }; xyz(<a b c>); 15:25
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«3␤»
pmichaud ah-ha
masak wut?
pmichaud parcels aren't stringifying properly. 15:26
sub xyz(Mu $x) { say ~$x }; xyz(('a', 'b', 'c'));
colomon rakudo: sub xyz(Mu $x) { say $x.WHAT; }; xyz(<a b c>);
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(Mu $x) { say ~$x }; xyz(('a', 'b', 'c'));
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«3␤» 15:27
masak submits rakudobug
pmichaud colomon++
rakudo: say PARROT(<a b c>);
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Parcel␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say ~<a b c>; 15:28
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«3␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say <a b c>.Str;
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
15:31 ruoso left, mberends left
pmichaud > say ~<a b c>; 15:32
a b c
colomon \o/ 15:33
pmichaud ....but now I'm getting some serious failures. 15:34
colomon doh!
diakopter rakudo: say (*.say; return *.say)(3) # masak; this one's for you 15:36
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '(' ('(')␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 76␤No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
masak submits rakudobug 15:38
that's a PIR parse error.
diakopter yar
masak is it golfed?
diakopter dunno 15:39
masak so, "no" :)
rakudo: (return *.say)(3)
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '(' ('(')␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 72␤No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
masak rakudo: (*.say)(3)
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«3␤»
masak rakudo: return *.say
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
diakopter rakudo: (return *)()
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '(' ('(')␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 70␤No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
masak there we have it. 15:40
15:40 cognominal joined, mls joined
mls the parrot index bug is in the mixed_cs_index function in src/string/charset/ascii.c 15:41
pmichaud ...ascii.c, are you sure?
probably better to diagnose that one on #parrot, too :) 15:42
Coke++ seems to have a fix.
mls Yep, it's also used from the other charsets
pmichaud rakudo: say < a >;
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT« a ␤»
pmichaud fail.
15:42 dual left
diakopter rakudo: say (*).^methods 15:43
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤current instr.: 'perl6;Seq;!fill' pc 13483 (src/builtins/Multi.pir:22)␤»
masak .^methods doesn't seem to work for anything right now.
diakopter o
jnthn I got did .^parents working again, and .^roles, iirc. But didn't get to .^methods and .^attributes again yet. 15:44
(the tests are still commented out in spectest.data)
15:45 Psyche^ joined
diakopter rakudo: say ().''() # I'm not sure this one was ever submitted 15:46
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«ResizablePMCArray: Can't shift from an empty array!␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc 2397 (src/builtins/Mu.pir:524)␤»
masak me neither. but we already have a couple empty-name method tickets already. 15:47
diakopter rakudo: say ()[()]; say ()[(3)]
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«␤Mu()␤»
diakopter should the first be Mu() too? 15:48
15:49 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
diakopter rakudo: say ()[Nil]; say ()[3] 15:49
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«␤Mu()␤»
15:51 rgrau joined 15:52 mls left 15:53 uniejo joined
diakopter rakudo: say (role foo {}).^roles.[0].^methods 15:56
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«returnsof␤»
masak rakudo: say (role foo {}).^roles.[0].^methods.perl 15:57
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
masak submits rakudobug
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diakopter rakudo: say (class role is Int {}).new("hi", 2, 3) 16:00
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«hi␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say < a > 16:01
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT« a ␤»
masak bug, right?
pmichaud Yes.
masak submits
pmichaud feel free to submit -- I'm spectesting a fix now, but we need a test.
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diakopter rakudo: say (class foo {}).() 16:05
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Class foo already registered!␤␤current instr.: 'perl6;ClassHOW;new' pc 3583 (src/metamodel/ClassHOW.pir:27)␤»
masak submits rakudobug
is the 'say' necessary?
rakudo: (class foo {}).() 16:06
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Class foo already registered!␤␤current instr.: 'perl6;ClassHOW;new' pc 3583 (src/metamodel/ClassHOW.pir:27)␤»
masak rakudo: (class foo {})
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: ( no output )
diakopter I dunno whether that's a bug; I think just nonspec
masak well, the error is kinda weird.
why would it need to re-register class foo?
diakopter std: say (class foo {}).WHAT
p6eval std 29863: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 105m␤»
diakopter rakudo: say (class foo {}).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Code()␤»
masak why is it a Code?
TimToady perhaps the registration is implemented internally with Code to call 16:07
jnthn Because anonymous classes are NYI.
(along with returning the right thingy from a class decl)
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masak jnthn: but that class isn't anonymous. 16:07
jnthn I know
masak ok, I won't submit it then. if it's just a TODO.
jnthn It'll be the same change to make both work though :-) 16:08
I'm still a little curious about... 16:09
my @c; for 1..5 { push @c, class { method foo() { 42 } }; }
Does @c contain 5 different anonymous classes?
Or just one?
PerlJam would think the former 16:10
masak five, yes.
jnthn OK.
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diakopter rakudo: say PARROT(module foo {}) 16:11
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in isa()␤current instr.: '&PARROT' pc 147 (src/Perl6/Compiler.pir:70)␤»
masak submits rakudobug
diakopter rakudo: say ClassHOW.methods(ClassHOW) 16:14
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in inspect_str()␤current instr.: 'perl6;ClassHOW;methods' pc 4360 (src/metamodel/ClassHOW.pir:437)␤»
masak submits rakudobug
jnthn Meh. Before we had a meta-model, all this was nice and hidden and people couldn't screw with it. :-) 16:17
diakopter hee
masak meta-bugs.
diakopter rakudo: say PARROT(ClassHOW.parents(ClassHOW)[0])
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«␤»
TimToady maybe we should require use MONKEY_TYPING on each statement that does it. :)
diakopter rakudo: say ClassHOW.parents(ClassHOW)[0] 16:18
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«P6metaclass()␤»
masak eek, a metaclass!
TimToady 'course, the first meta-meta-thing someone does would be to disable that...
diakopter rakudo: say ClassHOW.parents(ClassHOW)[0].new
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: ( no output )
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jnthn masak: That's fine - by the time you're asking what ClassHOW is implemented in terms of, your playing with guts. 16:19
*you're 16:20
masak wow, we should have an address like p3rl.org/bp -- I just saw that on the #perl channel.
diakopter mmmm lolcatgut
jnthn That's probably going to be implementation specific.
masak jnthn: I understand.
diakopter rakudo: say ClassHOW.roles(ClassHOW) 16:22
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«No such attribute '$!composees'␤current instr.: 'perl6;ClassHOW;roles' pc 4514 (src/metamodel/ClassHOW.pir:509)␤»
diakopter composees?
masak diakopter: see docs/metamodel.pod :)
pmichaud std: <>
diakopter is that like compost?
p6eval std 29863: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of <>; in Perl 6 please use lines() or () at /tmp/S5qZ9gvdhN line 1:␤------> <⏏>␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤»
masak jnthn: is it a bug, you'd say?
pmichaud std: < >
p6eval std 29863: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 105m␤»
masak diakopter: no, it's the recipients of a compose event. 16:23
diakopter o
pmichaud Is < > the same as Nil or '' or ... ?
masak diakopter: 'those [things] that are being composed\
diakopter oh, the comprisers
jnthn masak: Not sure...you're essentially invoking a method on a type object rather than an instance, and it gets upset.
masak pmichaud: should be either '' or a warning, just like <>, methinks. 16:24
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dalek kudo/master: fad9447 | pmichaud++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
Fix bug where < a > would improperly produce ' a ' instead of 'a' (RT #73136).
 16:26
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diakopter rakudo: my $a = {Mu}.new("Blastoid", 4, 3); say $a; say $a.WHAT; say PARROT($a); say $a() 16:32
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Blastoid␤Block()␤Perl6Scalar->Block␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Perl6Str'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤» 16:33
diakopter is it doing what I think it's doing?
stashing a Perl6Str as the referent of $a, but saying it's a Block?
jnthn diakopter: I'm entirely confused by what on earth it's doing there. 16:36
diakopter rakudo: my $a = {Mu}.new({444}, 4, 3); say $a; say $a.WHAT; say PARROT($a); say $a()
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«_block64␤Block()␤Perl6Scalar->Block␤444␤»
diakopter rakudo: my $a = "string".new({444}, 4, 3); say $a; say $a.WHAT; say PARROT($a); say $a() 16:37
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;CREATE' pc 1735 (src/builtins/Mu.pir:208)␤»
jnthn Certainly it's wrong though.
dalek p-rx: 0d1e1b5 | pmichaud++ | (2 files):
Better handling of single-angle items with spaces (e.g., < a > becomes 'a'
jnthn pmichaud: ping
diakopter rakudo: my $a = "string".new(''); # masakbot 16:38
p6eval rakudo 4fc3af: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;CREATE' pc 1735 (src/builtins/Mu.pir:208)␤»
masak submits rakudobug 16:39
colomon masak: weren't you telling me the other day that you only averaged one bug submission per day? ;)
masak colomon: yes. :) 16:40
colomon: but there's been a drought lately.
colomon how many have you submitted this week?
jnthn Today must be the great flood.
masak checks 16:41
jnthn: when it rains, it pours :)
diakopter at least the bugs aren't mainly on the plain 16:42
masak 26 this week.
rakudo: "string".new('')
p6eval rakudo fad944: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;CREATE' pc 1735 (src/builtins/Mu.pir:208)␤»
colomon So that makes up for all of January, more or less.... :)
masak rakudo: "string".new() 16:43
p6eval rakudo fad944: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;CREATE' pc 1735 (src/builtins/Mu.pir:208)␤»
pmichaud jnthn: pong
masak colomon: it's a good month, I won't deny that. :)
PerlJam ng becoming master has helped :) 16:44
jnthn pmichaud: If you're Doing Stuff in nqp-rx, and it's easy...
pmichaud: ...maybe you could s/new ['Hash']/root_new ['parrot';'Hash']/ ? 16:45
pmichaud: Then we can finally switch Hash in Rakudo to being a class.
pmichaud looking.
jnthn Thanks.
pmichaud I think that may be a pct issue as much as an nqp-rx one.
PerlJam bets it is easy
jnthn pmichaud: OK. 16:46
pmichaud jnthn: do you have a quick example where NQP (or PCT) is generating 'Hash' ?
grrr, fixing the parcel string bug is proving to be painful 16:47
keep ending up with infinite recursions 16:48
jnthn pmichaud: IIRC, my %h; in NQP vivifying to new ['Hash'] is the main one.
pmichaud jnthn: okay, working.
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diakopter rakudo: our %a(4,4); say %a.perl # what is the (4,4) supposed to do? 16:54
p6eval rakudo fad944: OUTPUT«{}␤»
jnthn std: our %a(4,4);
p6eval std 29863: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 108m␤»
jnthn heh
If anything, S09 probably says what. :-) 16:55
diakopter rakudo: our $a(4,4); say $a.perl
p6eval rakudo fad944: OUTPUT«Mu␤»
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PerlJam I think that's a STD bug personally. 16:59
TimToady looks like valid code to me 17:01
PerlJam TimToady: what does it mean?
TimToady (our %a).(4,4) 17:02
by "valid" I mean syntacticaly valid, not semantically
17:02 masak left
PerlJam so ... like I said, I think that's a STD bug :) 17:02
TimToady what, the fact that it doesn't try to run the code? :) 17:03
postfixes are certainly allowed on declarators 17:04
PerlJam sure, but only {} and [] make any sense to me.
TimToady rakudo: state $s++; say $s
p6eval rakudo fad944: OUTPUT«Symbol '$s' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤»
PerlJam and maybe <>
TimToady alpha: state $s++; say $s
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«1␤» 17:05
TimToady there, that's parsed as (state $s)++
(4,4) is just another postfix
PerlJam a postfix () on a declaration makes me think of BASIC and dimensionality and such.
TimToady well, it's not particularly good style 17:06
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TimToady alpha: say ++(state $) 17:06
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 10, near "$)"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤» 17:07
PerlJam let's just say that my personal universe rejects the notion that declarations should be able to have postfix parens in perl 6. :-)
TimToady but you're perfectly happy embedding "my $x" elsewhere in an expression? 17:08
PerlJam yes.
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TimToady at one point we allowed () as a "DIM" spec, but we took it back out again, iirc 17:10
no wait, it's still there 17:11
S09:712
PerlJam Hmm. 17:12
TimToady though what (4,4) would mean is unspecced
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PerlJam so, if our %a(4,4) means the same as (our %a).(4,4), does that mean that our @a[1..10] means the same as (our %a).(1..10) ? 17:16
er, (our @a).(1..10)
gah!
pmichaud
.oO(mixed brackets and parens...?)
PerlJam (our @a).[1..10]
TimToady no, but your premise is false by S09:712 17:17
hence my "no wait"
but maybe we will end up just reserving () at that spot
PerlJam A sig for a sub I understand, but I don't understand a sig for a variable declaration. 17:18
pmichaud afk # lunch, voting
TimToady the underlying notion is that a subscript lookup is really just a fancy function call
but the concept doesn't seem well formed quite yet 17:20
pmichaud jnthn: I think I have the root_new fixes... bootstrapping now 17:21
PerlJam my @a[10][17]; # declaring an implicit sub that takes 2 parameters?
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PerlJam wouldn't the 10 and 17 there already inform that subroutine's sig of the constraints on those 2 params? 17:22
jnthn pmichaud++
pugssvn r29864 | lwall++ | [S09] reserve the final () declaration syntax without committing to it meaning anything 17:24
pmichaud jnthn: r44499
("full house!")
jnthn Nice!
17:24 payload left
jnthn OK, will try bumping PARROT_REVISION in a bit 17:24
And see how it works out. 17:25
pmichaud yeah, I'm curious to see if that causes any failz.
jnthn Thanks.
PerlJam lunch &
TimToady PerlJam: so yes, STD is currently parsing (4,4) as part of the declaration, not like ++
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marton_ if I asked you 17:42
17:42 marton_ is now known as jaffa4
jaffa4 if I asked you 17:42
Why do you think one should Perl6 instread net? What would you say? 17:43
PerlJam huh?
(that's what I would say)
17:45 colomon left 17:48 evilek joined
evilek hello 17:48
17:48 colomon joined
evilek can i ask u about something? 17:48
colomon sure. 17:49
17:49 quester joined
evilek how to open a .pl file in windows... 17:49
? 17:50
jaffa4 Why do you think one should use Perl6 instread net? What would you say?
17:50 iblechbot left
TimToady I'd prefer to use Perl 6 and the net... 17:50
17:50 Su-Shee left
jaffa4 How? 17:50
TimToady Scrambled. 17:51
jaffa4 SO should there be a Perl6 project based on the net?
evilek i have downloaded parrot
TimToady you're not talking sense
evilek but i dont know how to use it
colomon evilek: Depends. Do you want to edit the file or execute it?
evilek execute
colomon TimToady: perhaps jaffa4 means .Net?
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jnthn jaffa4: Are you talking about .Net? 17:52
jaffa4 yes
jnthn Ah. :-)
TimToady "net" is a heavily overloaded word
jnthn jaffa4: I know both. :-)
colomon evilek: Is it a Perl 5 or a Perl 6 script you have?
evilek dunno...
my friend gave me and wanted to check something
how cann i check what ver it is? 17:53
PerlJam evilek: it's probably perl 5
evilek bit it is not new so i thing it might be 5
pmurias ruoso: hi 17:54
evilek but*
quester just submitted rakudobug #73148: [PATCH] Fix bug #68752, make perl6 --version more informative
jnthn evilek: Most likely, yes.
jaffa4 SO should there be a Perl6 project based on the. net?
jnthn evilek: So Parrot won't help you with that.
evilek: Grab strawberryperl.com/ - that should work out better. :-)
evilek ok ill download it, and what after? 17:55
TimToady jaffa4: that's what sprixel is, from time to time
ask diakopter about it
17:56 quietfanatic joined
jnthn evilek: After installing that, it may set up association for .pl - if not, just locate the perl.exe that it installed and associate pl files with that. 17:56
Alternatively, add the directory perl.exe is in to your path, and then it's just perl foo.pl 17:57
evilek okey
thx rly;]
jnthn Oh, the insaller may add it to your path anyway.
evilek if something go wrong ill come again
jnthn evilek: On that site there's a Perl on Win32 chat that's more likely to be helpful than here.
evilek ok
jnthn evilek: Folks here are mostly working on making the next version of Perl. :-) 17:58
pmurias jnthn: isn't that 5.12?
17:58 Su-Shee joined
jnthn :-P 17:58
pmurias: I *knew* somebody would have a snarky remark. 17:59
:-)
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lichtkind jnthn: in what areas is your rakudo engangement, or simply all over the place? 18:02
18:03 payload joined
jnthn Mostly dispatch, multi-dispatch, type system and object model stuff. 18:04
But I do other bits too. :-)
PerlJam blizkost! 18:06
evilek i think thats working, but my console windows is dissapearing everytime i want to open that file
;(
jaffa4 TimToady, thanks 18:10
lichtkind jnthn: thanks i will encorporate that in a minute
PerlJam: i would like you also interview but in 10 min my kitchen needs attention now 18:11
evilek jnthn have u any idea?
PerlJam I've got a meeting in about 10 minutes
quietfanatic evilek: Probably it disappears when the program exits. If you need it to stay around, you probably gotta open your own console and run the program from there. 18:12
evilek mhm ok thx 18:13
lichtkind PerlJam: so please post now you involvment into perl 6 i will grab it
quietfanatic evilek: (I assumed you're double-clicking the file to open it)
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PerlJam lichtkind: I would have no idea what to say. 18:15
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PerlJam lichtkind: I annoy TimToady about the language and I annoy pmichaud about Rakudo :) 18:15
lichtkind PerlJam: i see you so often hard to believe your a lurker
evilek ok everything working
18:16 riffraff left
evilek thx to U guys 18:16
bye
18:16 evilek left
lichtkind PerlJam: so your chief annoyer, thats an impressive title 18:16
PerlJam lichtkind: well, I contribute every once in a while, but I'm not consistent
lichtkind PerlJam: i could insert a joke about consistency of jam here :)
PerlJam lichtkind: you'd get a better picture of each person if you asked everyone else what that person does rather than asking that person what they do. :) 18:17
lichtkind PerlJam: allright in case you get som ... well but most people here are honest :)
PerlJam: in case you got more for me we can talk later :) 18:18
PerlJam lichtkind: oh, and I'm one of the people nominally working on a Perl 6 book.
lichtkind thats already noted :)
colomon PerlJam: you should be annoying the book authors, there's a lot of writing to get done in the next month or so. :) 18:19
jnthn huh...we're writing a book? 18:20
:-)
jnthn needs to give tuits to that Real Soon.
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jnthn -> supermarket, bbl 18:31
colomon would be off to the market himself, if it weren't snowing... 18:32
jnthn I waited here for the rain to stop. Of course, as soon as I step out of the door it'll probably start again.
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pugssvn r29865 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Unfudge a passing rakudo todo test in range.t. 19:08
dalek kudo/master: 459e001 | pmichaud++ | src/builtins/Parcel.pir:
Remove a flatten property fossil.
 19:09
pugssvn r29866 | lwall++ | [STD] reserve the () shape syntax 19:10
colomon oh noes, I left my changes spectesting while I fed the boy, and now there are more changes! 19:15
pmichaud colomon: oh, should I stop fixing bugs...? ;-) 19:16
colomon no.
any day where there are so many patches they get in the way of each other is probably a good day... :) 19:17
TimToady as far as I know, the only .t that my change breaks is t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/array.t
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TimToady The () shape syntax in array declarations is reserved at t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/array.t line 278: 19:18
------> my @arr(-->Num)⏏ = <1 2.1 3.2>;
PerlJam++ for annoying me :) 19:19
dalek kudo/master: 06437e6 | pmichaud++ | t/spectest.data:
Comment out one-pass-parsing.t from t/spectest.data until we pass its test.
 19:20
kudo/master: 8faa503 | pmichaud++ | src/core/operators.pm:
Remove some unneeded pir::boxing.
colomon dang it, I didn' 19:21
t even get spectest started that time! ;)
pugssvn r29867 | lwall++ | [array.t] comment out tests that use reserved syntax 19:23
lichtkind jnthn: please check www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?blizkost 19:27
jnthn
.oO( if it says the name is bad German for fast food I'll cry )
 19:28
lichtkind: more like "nearness" in English
lichtkind: But yes, fine. :-)
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lichtkind jnthn: i just didnt know that nearness is an english word too 19:29
jnthn: you did also the .nt bridge for parrot? 19:30
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jnthn lichtkind: .net? 19:31
Oh, yes, ages ago. 19:32
It's very bitrotten
lichtkind jnthn: i guessed that
jnthn: but its a medal on your chest :)
jnthn lichtkind: Maybe mention in blizkost page primary aim is to try and get access to some of CPAN from Rakudo.
lichtkind yes mom 19:33
pugssvn r29868 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Refudge capitalize.t.
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lichtkind jnthn: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....orthington now longer 19:34
PerlJam lichtkind: did you put me down as chief annoyer? :) 19:36
jnthn
.oO( how does he know what spam I buy stuff from? )
lichtkind PerlJam: noo i asked you :) 19:37
dalek kudo/master: 0b8098e | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on capitalize.t.
kudo/master: b9b14f9 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Any-str.pm:
Slightly awkward but functional implementation of capitalize.
avar Where's that chart that showed a percentage of the passing testsuite for rakudo (and maybe other compilers too) 19:38
PerlJam avar: rakudo.org/status
pmichaud colomon: why not the version in alpha? 19:39
self.lc.subst(/\w+/, { .ucfirst }, :global)
avar PerlJam: Thanks
colomon pmichaud: subst can't handle closures yet. 19:40
avar What's the recent regression on that chart about?
PerlJam avar: switched development branches.
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avar The chart isn't on master anymore? 19:40
colomon avar: master isn't the master you're thinking of any more. 19:41
PerlJam avar: it is, it's just that master has changed
avar: the old master is now called alpha, and the old ng is now master.
avar And ng solved a lot of regressions but there are lots of tests that don't pass now? 19:42
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PerlJam avar: ng lets us move forward better than alpha did, but it isn't feature-equivalent to alpha (yet). 19:43
avar Yeah I guessed, thanks for the update 19:44
PerlJam avar: by the march release I predict we'll be passing at least 30,000 tests again 19:45
lichtkind PerlJam: is that the reason rakudo * will come in april? 19:47
PerlJam lichtkind: you'll have to ask pmichaud why april :) 19:49
pmichaud jnthn: ping
avar because releasing master now would be a regression to the last release so waiting to bring it up to feature parity makes sense?
pmichaud avar: it's always been our intent to release in April. 19:50
(well, at least since last summer)
19:50 riffraff joined
avar pmichaud: Right, I was just speculating on lichtkind's "why April" question 19:56
pmichaud oh, sorry, mixed up my threads :)
19:57 coke joined
lichtkind he parrot article seams broken 19:57
coke hio. I just did a fresh install of parrot trunk, a git pull, and trying to build rakudo dies with a memory panic.
lichtkind: URL? 19:58
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lichtkind coke: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?parrot i mean technically broken, i cant attach tags to it 19:58
Coke: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ill_coleda 19:59
Coke k. just wondering if you were referring to the old parrot wiki on the TPF, which should be dead. 20:00
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colomon Coke: you mean the latest Parrot with the latest Rakudo? 20:03
pmichaud coke/colomon: testing that now
Coke colomon: yes. 20:07
jnthn pmichaud: pong
[particle] i think i saw a failure last night with the same setup on my laptop
it was late, i'll boot it and recheck
pmichaud jnthn: I'm trying to switch Mu/Any in rakudo
colomon most of us are using Parrot r44371, I think.
pmichaud when I do that, I get a bunch of errors like 20:08
Method 'slurpy' not found for invocant of class ''
Coke 44490, here.
pmichaud any clues?
jnthn pmichaud: backtrace?
pmichaud partial backtrace:
Method 'slurpy' not found for invocant of class ''
current instr.: 'perl6;Block;_block14428' pc 356594 (src/gen/core.pir:51669)
called from Sub 'perl6;Block;count' pc 356461 (src/gen/core.pir:51628)
called from Sub 'perl6;MapIterator;get' pc 358139 (src/gen/core.pir:52190)
called from Sub 'perl6;List;get' pc 10412 (src/builtins/Role.pir:70)
called from Sub 'perl6;Iterator;eager' pc 10179 (src/gen/RoleToInstanceApplier.pir:130)
called from Sub 'perl6;Seq;!STORE' pc 13596 (src/builtins/Routine.pir:77)
oh, perhaps Block.count is a big clue 20:09
colomon If we were using the right stringification method, would that be invocant of class 'Mu()', do you think? 20:10
TimToady std: my &foo($,$);
p6eval std 29868: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The () shape syntax in array declarations is reserved at /tmp/phIKcn1je6 line 1:␤------> my &foo($,$)⏏;␤FAILED 00:01 111m␤»
TimToady oops
pmichaud the code that is causing it:
jnthn pmichaud: It is, it means something is wrong with Signature.
TimToady std: my %foo($,$);
p6eval std 29868: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The () shape syntax in array declarations is reserved at /tmp/VDDnxBxJDo line 1:␤------> my %foo($,$)⏏;␤FAILED 00:01 107m␤»
pmichaud my @params = self.signature.params; 20:11
for @params -> $p {
$count++ unless $p.slurpy;
}
TimToady hmm
jnthn Right
say $p.WHAT
That could help to know.
But know immediate guesses...may I seee the diff?
*no
20:12 hercynium left
pmichaud nopaste.snit.ch/19800 # Mu->Any diff 20:12
jnthn hmm 20:13
Taht should be a fairly innocuous change. :-/
pmichaud coke: parrot r44504 builds and runs for me
(at least passes "make test")
Coke builds ... rakudo? or just itself? 20:14
pmichaud builds and runs rakudo
Coke k. I'll try that and see if I can do a binary search.
pmichaud pmichaud@plum:~/rakpar$ parrot_install/bin/parrot_config revision
44504
Coke oh, that's newer. =-) 20:15
jnthn pmichaud: applied locally, building.
pmichaud jnthn: the source that generates that error (among lots of others)... 20:16
my %e = enum <a b c>; say %e.keys;
(although *why* that would be going through MapIterator I have no clue.)
colomon pmichaud: Hmmm, I added Any.keys the other day. 20:17
Thought I used gather instead of map, however.
20:18 JOHND joined
colomon self.iterator.map({ $^pair.key }) 20:18
presumably that is it.
jnthn pmichaud: This golfs it:
sub foo($x, $y?) { }; say &foo.count
JOHND breaker, breaker 20:19
colomon (That code is from EnumMap.keys)
jnthn sub foo($x, $y?) { }; say &foo.signature.params # Any() - wtf?!
JOHND where can I try to understand the relationship of "modules" vs "packages" vs "classes"
say, vs the Java concept of them
pmichaud result = getattribute self, '$!param_cache' 20:20
if result == 'Mu()' goto compute_result
grrrrrrrrrr
why oh why are we doing a string comparison there?!?!?!
(using strings to test for classes or protoobjects is Evil.) 20:21
jnthn pmichaud: oh, gah
Yes, that's it.
pmichaud: I just foudn the same thing.
pmichaud: It dated back to when defined was giving back silly answers.
pmichaud every time I find one of those I worry about how many more might be lurking. :-( 20:22
jnthn I've seen few.
pmichaud so, can I just test for boolean true/false? or should I test for defined, or ... ?
jnthn That's the only result for Mu() in the codebase
pmichaud: Erm, in theory defined should do it.
In practice, it didn't.
Then.
20:23 payload left
pmichaud testing. 20:23
jnthn here too, though dinner is just about ready.
pmichaud when's the last day? 20:24
mberends JOHND: see Synopses 10, 11, 12 in perlcabal.org/syn
JOHND looking...
(thanks)
pmichaud okay, changing that seems to have fixed the golf case. spectesting. 20:26
jnthn pmichaud: yes, here too
pmichaud much better, most of the errors seem to have disappeared 20:27
jnthn Good
dinner, back in a bit
20:27 hercynium joined
jaffa4 can you tell me how to complete a name in xchat? 20:32
mberends jaffa4: type enough letters that the name is unique, then hit the Tab key 20:33
jaffa4 ok
pugssvn r29869 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Untyped variables now default to Any instead of Mu. 20:34
20:35 ruoso left
dalek kudo/master: c495888 | pmichaud++ | src/builtins/ (2 files):
Switch untyped variables to default to Any instead of Mu.
 20:40
kudo/master: 94a6c44 | pmichaud++ | (2 files):
Merge branch 'master' of [email@hidden.address]
colomon \o/
jnthn pmichaud: Did that break any junction tests, out of curiosity? 20:43
pmichaud I haven't put the type constraint in place yet
only the initial value
jnthn oh, OK.
pmichaud and yes, adding the type constraint seems to be causing lots of failz also
jnthn
.oO( hope those wants aren't my fault too )
pmichaud it's causing fails in core initializations atm 20:44
I'm improving the error messages a bit
jnthn Ouch!
20:50 TiMBuS left
pugssvn r29870 | lwall++ | [STD] redo previous patch correctlier 20:51
pmichaud looks like we're assigning a P6LowLevelSig
which isn't a subclass of Any
jnthn erg 20:52
20:53 burmas left
jnthn pmichaud: May be able to work around it by giving Signature a custom .new 20:53
pugssvn r29871 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Unfudge six tests fixed by pmichaud++.
pmichaud well, it's likely to be an issue for all foreign objects
jnthn Oh. Though Any.ACCEPTS is meant to handle foreign objects. 20:54
pmichaud Any.ACCEPTS, or Mu.ACCEPTS?
jnthn Well, it calls the same code... 20:55
For Mu it just accepts everything
For Any it accepts things that isa Any (naturally)
(more)
20:55 jonasbn joined
jnthn But also checks if it's ultimately a p6object, and if not assumes it's foreign. 20:55
At least, that's what I thought it did. :-)
pmichaud checking 20:56
any idea where that ACCEPTS is defined?
lichtkind pmichaud: please check www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?pge
jnthn pmichaud: p6object.pir
pmichaud: We don't override the one from there, iirc. 20:57
pmichaud jnthn: oh, the one in parrot
checking...
jnthn Right.
pmichaud I'm sure it only deals with Mu.
lichtkind thanks
pmichaud oh, maybe not
hmmm
# If this fails, and we want Any, and it's something form outside 20:59
# of the Perl 6 world, we'd best just accept it.
unless $S0 == 'Any' goto end
$I0 = isa topicwhat, 'Mu'
unless $I0 goto accept_anyway
$I0 = 0
goto end
...that's some weird code. 21:00
21:01 jonasbn left
jnthn pmichaud: Doesn't look wrong. 21:01
Even if mind-bending. :-) 21:02
jnthn had to read it twice though
TimToady std: my %foo($,$);
p6eval std 29871: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The () shape syntax in array declarations is reserved at /tmp/8jsNEpynw5 line 1:␤------> my %foo($,$)⏏;␤FAILED 00:01 109m␤»
mberends lichtkind: see the updated www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?sprixel 21:03
lichtkind saw alread that :)
pmichaud > say Any.ACCEPTS(pir::new__Ps('P6LowLevelSig')) 21:04
0
:-(
lichtkind mberends++
mberends it's re-updated
21:04 riffraff left
TimToady hmm, it's lying about which version of std it's running... 21:04
jnthn pmichaud: aww. 21:05
pmichaud: oh, I know why. 21:06
21:06 riffraff joined
jnthn pmichaud: Don't we do .WHAT on it? 21:06
Are we somehow failing because of that?
(at the top of the ACCEPTS meth, iirc)
pmichaud yes, we do
lichtkind mberends: its good, has real mean and its readable
jnthn Check that logic.
21:06 SmokeMachine joined
jnthn It may be dodgy. 21:06
pmichaud oh, so we never reach the code that allows foreign objects through :)
lichtkind pmichaud: excuse me, found error?
jnthn pmichaud: Right, that's what I expected. 21:07
pmichaud: Anywya, that's The Bug I guess. :)
lichtkind mberends: checked my edits?
pmichaud lichtkind: PGE entry looks fine to me -- I might add some minor updates
lichtkind pmichaud++ thanks
mberends lichtkind: will do now
pmichaud jnthn: yes, looks like that's the bug. 21:08
that's a bit bigger than I want to tackle right this minute, so I'll take a break and fix it up later 21:09
jnthn OK, fixable then.
OK
pmichaud since it will involve bumping PARROT_REVISION also :)
jnthn I'm still fighting the same thing I have been all day.
($other-job)
Good news is once that's cleared up, I don't have to worry about $other-job again until after the hackathon. :-)
21:09 japhb joined 21:13 gopek joined 21:14 gopek left 21:20 ignacio_ left
lichtkind allright enough for today touched 28 article, 2 new 21:25
3new :)
colomon lichtkind++ 21:28
lichtkind colomon: thanks but yours is still missing :)
colomon ;) 21:29
mberends lichtkind: a few people have said they're too modest or shy to write about themselves, here or elsewhere. It's also a wiki tradition to not write autobiographically. So we should really ask people to write about each other... 21:30
lichtkind mberends: yes but on the other hand if leto didnt tell me where he codes i would never know 21:31
luckily im not modest :) 21:32
mberends true, and true ;)
lichtkind mberends: just added a link to sprixel 21:34
21:34 ignacio_ joined
TimToady std: my %foo($,$); 21:34
p6eval std 29871: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The () shape syntax in hash declarations is reserved at /tmp/eNkAfm0Z7Z line 1:␤------> my %foo($,$)⏏;␤FAILED 00:01 109m␤»
TimToady that's better
std: my &foo($,$);
p6eval std 29871: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The () shape syntax in routine declarations is reserved (maybe use :() to declare a longname?) at /tmp/yf1loWcC2Q line 1:␤------> my &foo($,$)⏏;␤FAILED 00:01 109m␤»
PerlJam TimToady++ 21:35
lichtkind :)
mberends: also a place worthy of your attention www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?elf whre you have lot more knowledge than myself 21:37
mberends lichtkind: I'd be dreading that one, it will take some spelunking in the source code and quite a bit of time. I never got it running locally because of software dependencies. 21:38
21:38 japhb left 21:39 japhb joined
lichtkind mberends: it was just a guess of mine :) 21:39
mberends: i have here an ugly bug too try to add the tag Parrot to www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?parrot
mberends I'm editing the Parrot page atm 21:40
lichtkind but not the whole evening :)
mberends saved Parrot page 21:41
pmurias isn't it hibernates in misc/elf misc/elfish enough about elf 21:42
lichtkind pmurias: what you mean?
Coke pmichaud: that version still panics out of mem for me.
mberends elf has has been dormant for approximately 12 months now 21:43
lichtkind mberends: ahh new info for the article :)
pmichaud Coke: it's running out of memory? at what point?
pmurias lichtkind: what i mean is that it doesn't make much sense to spend time writing about mothballed projects 21:45
Coke /home/coke/bird/bin/parrot src/gen/perl6.pbc --target=pir \ src/gen/core.pm > src/gen/core.pir
lichtkind pmurias: ah that i understand :)
Coke Failed allocation of 128905652 bytes
Parrot VM: PANIC: Out of mem!
pmichaud ...128 megabytes?
PerlJam core is just too big :)
lichtkind pmurias: i just hoped mberends would have some elf xp and could spit out some lines 21:46
pmichaud I wonder what would be trying to allocate 128 meg, though?
(I assume that's in a single chunk)
Coke yes. 21:47
pmichaud coredump + backtrace might be useful :)
PerlJam Hmm. 21:50
I was just watch the core.pm compilation on my system. It seems to allocate about 4meg at a time until it hits somewhere close the 300meg where it fluctuates for a while, then at some point it jumps up to about 600+ meg 21:54
s/watch/watching/
21:54 uniejo left
PerlJam no wonder people have trouble compiling rakudo on low memory systems. I had no idea compiling it took so much ram until now. 21:55
Coke rerunning that step under gdb.
there's a reason partcl was using pbc_merge for a while. =-)
(building the compiler in smaller chunks and then combining them later.) 21:56
pmichaud it's not yet that easy in the p6 case.
there are a lot of cross-dependencies in class names.
Coke shouldn't even be necessary. =-)
nopaste.snit.ch/19801 21:58
(bt after memory panic)
not sure how that's going to help. =-)
jnthn It's just trying to enlarge a memory block in a typical GC run, it seems. 22:00
s/block/pool/
So hard to pin down. :-( 22:01
22:01 Yoya joined 22:02 blarg joined
colomon alpha: sub infix:<[+]>(Range $r) { say "hello" }; say [+] 2, 3, 5; [+] 1..40; 22:04
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«10␤» 22:05
PerlJam colomon: did you mean prefix?
colomon oooooh 22:06
alpha: sub prefix:<[+]>(Range $r) { say "hello" }; say [+] 2, 3, 5; [+] 1..40;
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$r'; expected Range but got List instead␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤»
colomon PerlJam: thanks.
:)
blarg are these weird characters '􏿽xAB', '􏿽xBB' going to be part of the language? theyre not on english keyboards 22:07
PerlJam blarg: yes, but there are Texas versions << and >>
22:07 pmurias left
PerlJam blarg: perl 6 is unicode. those are unicode characters :) 22:07
22:08 LifeIsPain joined
blarg PerlJam: I see 22:08
PerlJam blarg: also, I bet there are some french people somewhere that would take exception to you calling guillemets weird :) 22:09
blarg PerlJam: ya but the french are weird
PerlJam blarg: oh, and see this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillemets#Ty..._computers
blarg PerlJam: :)
PerlJam: so since it's unicode, other languages, like hebrew or chinese, can use their character set for method names and whatnot? 22:11
PerlJam sure. 22:12
blarg very cool
PerlJam (you could too ;)
jnthn rakudo: my $Юлия = 'Красивая'; say $Юлия 22:15
p6eval rakudo 94a6c4: OUTPUT«Красивая␤»
jnthn \o/
22:15 jaffa4 left
PerlJam blarg: unicode is rife with funky characters to be used as operators in Perl 6. See perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/1...g-snowmen/ for instance. 22:16
diakopter std: token sigil:scalar<€> { <sym> }
p6eval std 29871: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
bkeeler I always like the idea of using ¥ as a zip operator 22:19
and good afternoon, by the way ;)
jnthn :-)
PerlJam jnthn: who's julia?
jnthn <awkward look> 22:20
PerlJam :-)
22:22 wknight8111 joined, SmokeMachine left 22:25 quietfanatic joined 22:28 Chillance left 22:31 Yoya left 22:32 riffraff left 22:36 mberends left
frettled jnthn: shouldn't that be a perlward look? 22:43
22:45 Chillance joined
jnthn Phew 22:47
jnthn gets $dayjob stuff wrapped up at last :-) 22:48
Su-Shee julia is julia child of cource. the great cookbook author.
+s-c
frettled and I thought it was a fractal 22:49
Su-Shee well they both have almond bread ;)
frettled The good thing about € as an operator or sigil or whatever, is that it's also in ISO Latin 9 (8859-15). 22:51
22:52 athenot left 22:53 stephenlb left
TimToady maybe € can mean EQUAL OR ELEMENT OF, as in ~~ is the Texas version of it 23:01
though people will want ≈ for the unicode of ~~, maybe
but € is nicely asymmetric, and looks kinda like ∈ 23:03
colomon is trying to use his last ten minutes (?) before dinner looking for LHF, and completely failing so far...
23:03 iblechbot left
frettled TimToady: I like ≈ as the unicode variant of squigglesquiggle. 23:03
≠ is a nice unicode variant of != 23:04
¬ can work as a unicode variant of ! ;)
TimToady well, there's ≉ too
PerlJam can't see ≈ as synonymous with ~~
TimToady you have to sort of break it in the middle and pile it up 23:05
PerlJam those two symbols occupy different areas of my brain. They are unrelated.
frettled PerlJam: you just have to ∫ the thought without getting caught in the ∆.
PerlJam frettled++ :-)
frettled Get to the √problem
TimToady yes, using ≈ will upset the mathematicians 23:06
frettled That's a good reason for doing it ;)
PerlJam PDL folk are mathematicians too
23:06 nihiliad left
PerlJam TimToady: have you given any thought to what you'll do when Perl 6 is "finished"? 23:07
bkeeler Perl7! 23:08
TimToady I thought I might take a day or two off...
frettled :)
TimToady 'course, by the time Perl 6 is finished, I might have been pushing up daisies for a century or so... 23:09
PerlJam TimToady: we'll keep your head alive in a jar forever. 23:10
PerlJam wonders how horrified TimToady is at the thought :) 23:11
colomon rakudo: say Inf.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 94a6c4: OUTPUT«Num()␤» 23:12
mathw \o/ free wifi!
jnthn yay! 23:14
mathw: Having fun? :-)
mathw yes
jnthn :-)
mathw I just got back from the bar, where there's a folk music session in full swing
however, I'm rather tired due to going to aikido before driving a couple of hours to get here 23:15
jnthn Bar + music you like = a great thing 23:16
mathw yeah
and the course itself is going well too
it's really weird, having these tutors who are members of bands I really like coming up to me and saying 'wow, what kind of recorder's that you've got?' and 'I've been thinking, we need to move you to a different section of my group because of this and that' 23:17
The wifi's just the icing on the cake 23:18
jnthn :-D 23:19
Free wifi is always a nice surprise.
mathw free wifi that works is even better!
awesome rating: 10.5/10 23:20
jnthn Overflowing with awesome.
pmichaud
.oO( mathw's recorder has wifi? )
 23:21
mathw now that would be a recorder worth having :D 23:22
pmichaud "Sorry, can't play right now -- my recorder won't connect to the network."
jnthn pmichaud: I'm kinda tired tonight from lots of twiddling with $work-thingy today, but should have plenty of Rakudo time tomorrow. :-)
mathw closest I could get right now is if I got a wireless MIDI kit for my wind synth
anyway, I'm going to get some sleep
pmichaud jnthn: okay. I don't know what my schedule will be like.
mathw I just wanted to gush about how conference venues don't have to suck
23:22 fridim_ joined
pmichaud Have to prepare tomorrow and Sunday for about 11 days of travel :-| 23:22
mathw and you guys are the only ones who are awake
jnthn pmichaud: OK, no worries. There's no shortage of things for me to be hacking on. 23:23
Ouch.
Yeah, I should be getting my packing a good bit further along too.
mathw: night :-)
mathw night! 23:24
23:27 alester left, stephenlb joined
pmichaud I think I may spend time tomorrow cleaning up RT queue. :-) 23:28
rakudo: &foo(); sub foo() { say 'hello'; } 23:31
p6eval rakudo 94a6c4: OUTPUT«hello␤» 23:32
pmichaud rakudo: &foo(); { our sub foo() { say 'hello'; } }
p6eval rakudo 94a6c4: OUTPUT«Symbol '&foo' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤»
pmichaud > &foo(); { our sub foo() { say 'hello'; } } 23:33
hello
jnthn pmichaud: (RT queue) I was wondering how much that could be a hackathon task. 23:34
pmichaud I think a fair bit, but it's also worth pruning easy lhf
jnthn pmichaud: I certainly don't envy you that task.
pmichaud mainly eliminating tickets that are no longer relevant
jnthn Aye.
Ooh, that's a nice fix to have.
pmichaud > say &infix:<+>(3,4); 23:35
7
jnthn \o/
23:35 Su-Shee left
pmichaud > say ~&infix:<+> 23:35
infix:<+>
jnthn Good good. 23:36
pmichaud > say &bar;
Could not find non-existent sub &bar
jnthn non-existent feels a little more than needed in there. ;-)
(yes, I know, it's the Parrot message)
pmichaud that's actually .... right
jnthn It just amuses me whenever I see it.
pmichaud one item that is a little weird, though... 23:37
(oh, I'll have to wait for the rebuild.)
jnthn ooh, there will be a conference in Kiev this year! 23:39
social.yapcrussia.org/yr2010/
pmichaud yes, same dates as german perl workshop, iirc
jnthn ouch
pmichaud oh, no it isn't!
it's the weekend following
jnthn Ah
pmichaud GPW is June 7-9
jnthn Close in time, hmm... 23:40
jnthn likes going to Ukraine. :-)
dalek kudo/master: 4ab4b82 | pmichaud++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
Fix subroutine lookup for &-sigiled barewords to use 'find_sub_not_null'.
pmichaud yes, since I'll already be in Germany, perhaps I should find a way to pop over to kiev as well ... :-)
jnthn There's much that is beautiful in Kiev.
23:40 snarkyboojum joined
pmichaud > say &infix:<+> 23:41
infix:<+>infix:<+>infix:<+>infix:<+>infix:<+>infix:<+>infix:<+>infix:<+>
(Rakudo thinks that &infix:<+> is an array, and flattens it.) 23:42
jnthn oh
*sigh*
Yes, thanks Parrot, SO much, for having MultiSub be a subclass of RPA.
Wait, I ranted on this before...
:-)
pmichaud correct, that decision turned out to be exactly backwards :)
jnthn It's why Parrot's MultiSub PMC can't use the multi-dispatch cache too. 23:43
And why we jumped through hoops subclassing it.
It's fixable.
Anyway, I can probably have pmc_init for Perl6MultiSub slap a scalar attribute on itself. 23:44
Would that do it?
s/attribute/property/
pmichaud yes
jnthn OK, will do that.
pmichaud or whatever is creating the Perl6MultiSubs, if we don't want to be mucking about with init_pmc
jnthn I don't mind init_pmc in C, and we already have one anyways.
dalek ok: b50dc2a | chromatic++ | src/regexes.pod:
Minor edits to regex chapter; a couple of editorial notes added.
 23:45
jnthn But yes, tmtowtdi.
dalek kudo/master: 7680ab4 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Seq.pm:
Since we can now refer to &infix:<cmp> directly, do that instead
 23:46
23:46 ruoso joined, lue joined
lue hello? /o\ 23:52
snarkyboojum ćao lue 23:54
lue oi! 23:55
bkeeler heya lue 23:56
Any idea why my vim is ignoring the # vim: ft=perl6 thingies?
lue is it up to date? (obvious q) 23:57
bkeeler I believe so
lue is it from your provider or self-compilation? 23:58
Coke (RT queue) that's why I was trying to build rakudo! =-)
bkeeler Ahhh, that could be it, gvim is from mac-ports, but vim is the default mac one
lichtkind good night 23:59
jnthn lichtkind: dobru noc
lichtkind jnthn: :)
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