»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moderator on 28 July 2010.
snarkyboojum pmichaud: indeed :P 00:00
pmichaud jnthn: I'll have another tarball tonight
I'll upload a tarball now (somewhat untested)
jnthn pmichaud: Yeah - I unfortunately got some $dayjob meeting stuff some of tomorrow.
pmichaud no problem. we seem to be converging rapidly at this point. 00:01
jnthn Aye, I'd just hate for the released one not to work on Win32.
:-)
timbunce I've uploaded a (slightly modified) version of my DBDI lighting talk www.slideshare.net/Tim.Bunce/perl-6...alk-201007 00:02
pmichaud any final remarks about the announcement, readme, etc?
or anything else in the tarball/distro?
pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta4.tar.gz 00:03
snarkyboojum actually NZ is UTC + 12 hours, so it'll be 30th in NZ at midday UTC :P
pmichaud snarkyboojum: yes, but just barely :) 00:04
snarkyboojum pmichaud: poor kiwis :P
pmichaud maybe I'll release at 11h45 then
is there anywhere that is UTC-12 hours?
timbunce pmichaud: remove the two "...others?" ?
pmichaud timbunce: oops, yes. I'll be sure to do that. :)
timbunce pmichaud: actually just the first
pmichaud (doing that now, in fact)
timbunce pmichaud: the second could be "and much more..." :) 00:05
pmichaud I can do that, yes.
* threads and concurrency
* Unicode strings at levels other than codepoints
* pre and post constraints, and other phasers
* ...and much more...
changed final ellipsis to a period. 00:06
00:06 pronik joined
pmichaud (still planning for 12h00 release, despite nz timezone :-) 00:07
note "despite" and not "to spite" :-P
jnthn ;-) 00:08
snarkyboojum as an aussie, I don't mind :)
isBEKaml_ pmichaud: github.com/svatsan/rStar-SlackBuilds. Slackware build scripts in place for rakudo and parrot.
I have currently kept them separate into two dependency builds. will integrate them into one in sometime for R* 00:09
snarkyboojum: aussies are spiteful? ;) 00:11
snarkyboojum isBEKaml_: err.. competitive w.r.t kiwis :)
00:12 pronik left
snarkyboojum or is it the other way around.. 00:12
pmichaud isBEKaml_: I think they should remain separate, fwiw.
jnthn Aussies and Kiwis?
isBEKaml_ snarkyboojum: that's better. I have seen them to be fiercely competitive in sports. :) 00:13
pmichaud the only reason we bundle parrot with the R* distribution is to make it simpler for people who download the tarball to not have to worry about which parrot to grab.
00:13 patspam joined
pmichaud but for binary builds/packages (like slackware, rpm, etc.), I think it makes far more sense to have separate parrot and rakudo packages 00:13
isBEKaml_ pmichaud: that would mean users would have to download sources separately and keep them in place for the script to use.
pmichaud: for R*, I can make it build two packages instead of one after integration. The integration is only for the build script not for packages. :) 00:15
pmichaud isBEKaml_: that works for me. 00:17
isBEKaml_: I tend to defer to package builders as to how things should actually be packaged. :-)
jnthn pmichaud: I have an MSI that installs in C:\\Rakudo, doesn't let the user change it so they won't go and install in a palce that won't work (since it's not relocatable) and installs a shortcut in the programs menu to the REPL.
Oh, and works. :-)
pmichaud jnthn: \\o/
snarkyboojum jnthn: re 'Aussies and Kiwis' - there's a compulsion to shorten/mangle names down here - innate laziness :) 00:18
pmichaud does it require perl (5) to be on the system to work?
jnthn pmichaud: Where are modules installed to btw?
pmichaud: No
pmichaud: Though it doesn't include Blizkost yet either.
ingy Has london.pm received their * yet? 00:19
pmichaud jnthn: $(prefix)/lib/2.6.0/library/languages/perl6/lib/whatever # I think
anyway, they go wherever parrot and rakudo expect to find them
jnthn Oh, wait, beta 3 got that worng and I was running an unpatched version...
Hopefully beta 4 (doing it now) will get that right. :-) 00:20
pmichaud I don't think I changed anything in that regard between b3 and b4. did you?
ingy go go rakudo!
jnthn pmichaud: Yes, I put in a patch.
pmichaud okay.
jnthn b3 was (your) last night, right?
pmichaud yes.
b4 is the one I did <60m ago
jnthn OK, so yes, I fixed something when I woke up this morning.
So it'll be in b4 but not b3 00:21
pmichaud anyway, yes, hopefully fixed in b4.
snarkyboojum oh my - "Suggested magic..." email spam
jnthn Ah. book ain't in b4, but the looks of it?
pmichaud jnthn: not yet -- working on that part now.
jnthn snarkyboojum: omg I know...that thread is epic.
pmichaud also still missing perl6.vim
jnthn pmichaud: Probably don't need that one on Windows. :-) 00:22
pmichaud someone might be running gvim! :-)
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jnthn pmichaud: Any thoughts on what should go in the "Rakudo Perl 6" start menu folder? So far I just have "Rakudo REPL" which starts Rakudo (so you get interactive mode). 00:24
pmichaud jnthn: link to book? link to README?
jnthn Link to book is good idea, yeah. 00:25
pmichaud afk for a bit, walk
it will be docs/book.pdf
isBEKaml_ how do you install bundled modules? I'd rather leave it to the user if he wants to install instead of pushing into the build script. 00:27
make modules?
or make modules-install ? that would install ufo, am I right? 00:28
[particle] runs gvim 00:29
isBEKaml_ just a vim user. =)
:wq
hugme hugs isBEKaml_, good vi(m) user!
isBEKaml_ \\o/
isBEKaml_ hugs back hugme
btw, install target in the R* b3 dist does both rakudo-install and modules-install ? 00:31
jnthn isBEKaml_: as far as I can tell
snarkyboojum isBEKaml_: according to the Makefile that seems to be right :)
isBEKaml_ ok. I'm no make expert. :) 00:32
alright, time here's six in the am. I won't be available for the rest of the day. When is the actual release going through? 00:39
snarkyboojum isBEKaml_: by midday UTC, I think pmichaud was going to get the first tarball done by 11am UTC (I think)
isBEKaml_ I mean, the time.
jnthn pmichaud: b4 looks good 00:40
isBEKaml_ snarkyboojum: cool, we have twelve hours. :)
well, nearly.
snarkyboojum isBEKaml_: best to check with pmichaud, but yeah, the "release" release will be about 11 hours 20 minutes away as I understand it :) 00:41
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Daenyth Hiya all 00:42
Is there any yacc -> p6 grammar parser? 00:44
jnthn pmichaud: Added link to book from start menu folder, also associated .p6 with Rakudo. 00:45
pmichaud: Plus modules now install and work. 00:46
Daenyth: I haven't seen one.
Daenyth Thanks
jnthn www.jnthn.net/perl6/rakudo/Rakudo-S...010-07.msi 00:48
isBEKaml_ snarkyboojum: will do. thanks.
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jnthn ^^ If anyone wants to try out the Windows installer, there's a beta. 00:48
isBEKaml_ jnthn: \\o/
jnthn I'm meant to be catching a train for $dayjob meeting in like 6 hours, so perhaps I should sleep. 00:49
isBEKaml_ jnthn: I'm supposed to be running to $dayjob in an half hour or so. =)
jnthn isBEKaml_: Yes, but you myabe slept recently. ;-) 00:50
isBEKaml_ jnthn: :)
snarkyboojum jnthn++ # sleep well! 00:51
isBEKaml_ jnthn: good sleep! :) 00:52
jnthn Thanks, catch you all tomorrow - release day! :D
lichtkind congrats to you
phenny lichtkind: 27 Jul 22:57Z <sorear> tell lichtkind blizkost has been tested on 5.10.1 and 5.12.0. It is known to not work on 5.8.9.
lichtkind thanks phenny
sorear according to azawawi, it does NOT work on Windows 5.12.1 Strawberry 00:53
according to jnthn, it does work on Windows 5.10.0 unknown distribution
lichtkind sorear: thanks
00:53 Sarten-X joined
lichtkind good night 00:54
happy release day
isBEKaml_ github.com/svatsan/rStar-SlackBuilds # added README 00:57
00:57 Daenyth left
lue wello o/ 00:57
isBEKaml_ hellue! o/
isBEKaml_ off to work. Release day! go, rakudo, go! :) 00:58
have a good time, folks! o/ 00:59
lue goodbye o/
pmichaud: [Monty Python old lady voice] so you're going to release it at 5 in the morning (PDT) ?
pmichaud lue: yes. it's 7am where I'll be. 01:02
ingy pmichaud: slacker 01:03
pmichaud ingy: that's me!
ingy :-*
lue
.oO(I think I can time the release of a post in wordpress, but can I time the changing of the parts of the layout?)
 01:04
alexm pmichaud: just tried beta4 and... > my $a = "ä"; $a.say
ä
pmichaud alexm: looking.
lue rakudo: my $a = "ä"; $a.say
p6eval rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«ä␤»
pmichaud alexm: does it work when entered from a file? 01:05
alexm trying
ingy can you catch arguments to 'use Foo "arg1"' in an import sub like perl5?
pmichaud parrot seems to have trouble with utf8 when coming from the interactive shell
ingy: nyi, I think.
alexm pmichaud: it works from a file, yes
pmichaud ingy: and don't know that we're entirely certain what the api will look like there.
alexm: yeah, I suspect a terminal issue. 01:06
alexm pmichaud: on my side or rakudo's? it worked fine in rakudo master a few days ago
pmichaud alexm: could be rakudos, but I'm not sure why/where.
alexm now recompiling rakudo master
pmichaud I'll try it with the kiev release
I'm getting the same thing here.
oh, I think I see. 01:07
looks like an issue with the setup for $*IN, $*OUT, and $*ERR -- they no longer have their utf8 flag
I'll see if I can figure out why it was lost and patch it back in.
ingy heads out for some exercise. 01:08
alexm pmichaud: master fe29cde works just fine
it probably got fixed since beta4? 01:09
pmichaud there's not much difference between fe29cde and beta4 01:10
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pmichaud beta4 was built using fe29cde 01:10
alexm pmichaud: i'm cleaning up my rakudo fork and recompiling again, just in case 01:11
masonkramer I'm trying to follow the epic .. operator thread. What does the ^ in "1..^ 10" mean? 01:13
pmichaud masonkramer: it means "up to"
masonkramer and what does "1.. ^10" mean?
pmichaud so 1..^10 means "1 up to (but not including) 10"
^10 means "zero up to 10" 01:14
avar so, uh, when's * coming out ?:)
pmichaud 1.. ^10 is arguably meaningless
but it would end up being the same as (1.. (0..^10))
masonkramer ahh
so ^10 means "0..10" ?
pmichaud means "0..^10" 01:15
rakudo: say ^10
p6eval rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«0123456789␤»
masonkramer right right
pmichaud rakudo: say (^10).perl;
p6eval rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«0..^10␤»
masonkramer thanks!
pmichaud PerlJam: I can't get the book to build for me... any hints?
PerlJam What's it doing/not doing? 01:16
Did you read the README?
pmichaud make[1]: Entering directory `/home/pmichaud/book/build'
../lib/Makefile:2261: UsingPerl6.letter.d: No such file or directory
= UsingPerl6.letter.tex --> UsingPerl6.letter.d UsingPerl6.letter.pdf.1st.make (0-1) =
make[1]: *** [UsingPerl6.letter.d] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/pmichaud/book/build'
make: *** [pdf] Error 2
pmichaud@plum:~/book$
yes, I read the README :-)
it worked for me at the beginning of last week, so something changed since then. 01:18
(although I did have to reinstall my notebook since then.. still, I reloaded the various libraries and stuff)
PerlJam Well, your problem is new to me. It works fine on ubuntu 10.04 (after going through the stuff in the README) 01:21
pmichaud I'm on kubuntu 10.04 :)
still, shouldn't be that big a difference.
I'll try rebooting and stuff.
alexm pmichaud: confirmed, rakudo master fails also with utf-8 from terminal, libreadline5-dev seems suspicious to me
pmichaud alexm: I'm guessing the problem is that utf-8 is no longer set
looks like some dweeb named 'pmichaud' patched the file that sets up $*IN, $*OUT, $*ERR on July 5 such that it no longer sets utf8. 01:23
I'll fix up what he did. :-)
PerlJam pmichaud: Were you going to include the POD too or just the PDF of the book/.
?
pmichaud PerlJam: I was planning just the pdf 01:24
alexm pmichaud: it's a nice guy, be gentle :)
pmichaud alexm: he's always giving me trouble. :)
alexm: anyway, I should be able to fix it prior to R*
alexm s/it's/he's/ ... sorry ;)
pmichaud PerlJam: if you can generate a pdf for me and check it into the star repo (skel/docs/book.pdf), that'd help a ton. 01:25
PerlJam will do
pmichaud you have commitbit?
PerlJam apparently (I committed a small change earlier today :) 01:26
pmichaud aye, you have commitbit. 01:28
thanks
I have to run to store -- bbiab
PerlJam how about if I name it UsingPerl6-draft.pdf ?
or somesuch
masonkramer gahh... what how is *+* equivalent to &[+]?
sorear it's not, quite
* + * is equivalent to { $^a + $^b }
it's an even lighter form of placeholder
masonkramer oh...
ash__ rakudo: my $a = * + *; say $a(1, 2);
masonkramer what synopsis is that?
p6eval rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«3␤»
sorear S02
masonkramer Oy, I already read that one 01:31
PerlJam pmichaud: I'll name it as I said above and let you either rename it or change the announcement.
masonkramer I'm finding this hard to learn...I really need to start solving problems with it
thanks though
ash__ masonkramer: if you have any suggestions for tutorials, beyond whats in the perl6 book thats started, let me know
PerlJam masonkramer: what's hard? It's easy as pie :)
ash__ have you seen the perl6 book that's already been started?
masonkramer ash__: I have taken a look, it looks _great_
PerlJam masonkramer: note that I sometimes trip myself up on simple things too
masonkramer very excited about it
alexm pmichaud: maybe you'd like to know that compiling without support for readline5 solves the "ä".say problem 01:32
don't know if that's related to the change tou mentioned before
s/tou/you/
masonkramer when references are made to builtin methods (.succ, .pred, .perl), where can I go to look up those methods?
PerlJam masonkramer: in an appropriate synopsis perlcabal.org/syn/ 01:34
(the trick is figuring out which one still)
masonkramer: though that's a good point. One of the things I've occasionally found annoying about looking up method names in other OO languages is that you have to know what class the belong to first. What's needed is an alphabetic listing of all methods that reference the appropriate classes. 01:35
masonkramer yes 01:39
or one of those "hyperlink" thingies 01:40
PerlJam yes.
links are great, but they have to flow both ways as you never know how someone is going to come at a problem. 01:41
and there should be multiple "indexes" for that same reason.
IMHO
masonkramer but really, I am not complaining 01:43
PerlJam this whole thread on p6l about magic .. is *crazy* 01:47
sorear It's distracting the crazies so they don't bother us here. 01:50
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colomon sorear: exactly. :) 02:08
masonkramer @primes = grep *.prime, 2..*;
doesn't this blow up?
colomon masonkramer: might not, if grep is smart enough to detect it's being handed an infinite list. 02:10
masonkramer an infinite list? wouldn't that be a Range? 02:11
I guess Ranges degrade into lists when passed as a listy thing? 02:12
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colomon right. if you use a range like a list, it becomes a list. 02:15
masonkramer or in p6 speak, Iterator 02:16
or maybe a RangeIter
this language is huge :) 02:17
pmichaud PerlJam: UsingPerl6-draft.pdf is fine
colomon an iterator is how a list is implemented.
pmichaud PerlJam++
snarkyboojum I get 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' if I do something like my Int @a = 1..10, or any time I put a type in front of an array like that 02:19
I guess that's a known issue
sorear right, types in front of arrays don't work.
snarkyboojum sorear: ok. cheers.
pmichaud (added to announcement) 02:20
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pmichaud
.oO('Twas the night before Christmas...)
 02:45
PerlJam oddly, Camryn was just singing "Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer" out of the blue 02:47
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flw perl6: say 3; 03:20
p6eval pugs, rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«3␤»
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dalek kudo: c196801 | pmichaud++ | VERSION:
Bump VERSION.
 03:38
kudo: 9fd5eaa | pmichaud++ | build/gen_version.pl:
Make sure --version always prefers the date form of tag (starting with '2').
 03:50
lue ohai once again o/ 03:51
aw, git pull is freezing :( 03:55
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pmichaud general comment: I'd really like to see masak++'s 10 year history of Perl 6 referenced from perl6.org somewhere :) 04:45
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PerlJam pmichaud: where would it go? 04:53
pmichaud PerlJam: I don't know; if I knew that much I'd just add it. :) 04:54
PerlJam If perl6.org had a "news" section, it'd fit right there. 04:55
pmichaud I think it deserves to be around longer than just "news"
pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta6.tar.gz # likely the last test tarball before building the release itself 04:56
oops
*beta5*
pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta5.tar.gz # likely the last test tarball before building the release itself
afk for a while 04:57
snarkyboojum the CREDITS file in docs still looks a bit light on 05:07
lue I'm not quite sure on when one would want to use package, module, or class (for, eh, modules). 05:08
sorear use a class if you want to be able to call .new on it
use a module if you want to be able to export functions from it 05:09
use a package if you want to be able to define *anything* in it
every class is a module
every module is a package
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sorear use the least that will work 05:09
std: { $^a + $a } 05:10
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
lue thank you, sorear
sorear rakudo: { $^a + $a }
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤ in main program body at line 2:/tmp/SzJcipIJP8␤»
sorear huh. I thought you had to use $^a consistantly. 05:11
PerlJam pmichaud: blizkost doesn't seem to work. 05:13
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cxreg it's almost shocking how positive MAGnet #perl is about r* 05:14
PerlJam pmichaud: gist.github.com/497304 05:16
Dieken hi, a little typo in blizkost/build/Makefile.in: s/MANDIR/MAN_DIR/g
sorear PerlJam: Where does it say pmichaud is the maintainer of blizkost?
anyways, they probably just forgot a mkdir dynext 05:17
PerlJam sorear: nowhere. He's not. But he is putting together the R* dist with blizkost and he may have a clue about how to fix it.
(I tried to install R*-beta5 as per the README) 05:18
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uasi rakudo: my $a = 0; ({$^a + $a})(1); 05:24
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: ( no output )
05:24 LaVolta joined
uasi my $a = 0; ({$^a + $a})(1).say; 05:25
rakudo: my $a = 0; ({$^a + $a})(1).say;
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«2␤»
uasi oh 05:26
PerlJam uasi: the first "my $a" has nothing to do with the rest of the code :)
pmichaud PerlJam: I'll take a look.
(blizkost) 05:27
jnthn++ made some changes a bit earlier today -- that might've affected things.
PerlJam I must be getting tired since there was no reason to say "the first" :)
pmichaud: Do you think ./perl6 --version should mention that it's part of R* in there somewhere? Or just leave it to the version and the partial SHA1 to determine that? 05:29
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cxreg wonders how linux distros will version "star" when packaged 05:30
pmichaud PerlJam: I think the compiler should continue to report compiler versions.
cxreg debian has "0.1~2010.01-1" right now, it appears
pmichaud We might have a Rakudo::Star module, though. 05:31
uasi PerlJam: so... {$^a + $a} is equivalent to {$^a + $^a} ?
PerlJam cxreg: what's with the leading 0.1 ? do they have some constraints on version number formats?
cxreg PerlJam: probably
pmichaud uasi: yes. $^var also declares $var 05:32
cxreg PerlJam: i think it's an attempt at future-proofed versioning that will numerically sort correctly against "real" versions
PerlJam: actually, i think since the tag is "Star+0" it /will/ say so 05:35
pmichaud I set the tags to always report dates, so it'll say 2010.07-47-.... 05:36
cxreg oh wait, nevermind. that depends on a .git directory existing
pmichaud: i meant the conditional thing that uses "git describe" 05:37
pmichaud cxreg: right.
cxreg oh, i didnt see the --match bit
pmichaud I switch it so that it does 'git describe --match '2*'
that's new as of tonight
cxreg ahhh
i didnt even know git could do that
slick.
pmichaud because I want --version to report that it's based on the 2010.07 release
future star releases will all report simply "2010.08", "2010.09", etc. 05:39
uasi pmichaud: thanks
PerlJam sleep & 05:40
pmichaud PerlJam: blizkost appears to build okay here.
05:41 high joined
sorear pmichaud: How are you making the tarballs? Are they preserving empty directories? 05:42
PerlJam unsleep
pmichaud sorear: probably not preserving empty directories, no.
cxreg pmichaud: the rule says "-$(MKPATH) $(MANDIR)/man1
the leading - means to ignore exit status
so when it fails to create "/man1", it just continues
mkdir /man1: Permission denied at /usr/share/perl/5.10/ExtUtils/Command.pm line 288 05:44
make: [install] Error 13 (ignored)
pmichaud PerlJam: okay, I got the same error you did.
looking.
PerlJam There's no dynext dir in the tarball 05:45
pmichaud right
empty dirs are likely to cause issues
PerlJam Is that because of git?
pmichaud more likely because the MANIFEST only lsits files, not directories.
PerlJam ah 05:46
pmichaud ...and because the tarball excludes .git* files
PerlJam touch .keep_me # :) 05:47
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pmichaud well, it actually excludes .-files altogether :) 05:47
PerlJam bummer 05:48
pmichaud I can get it to keep the blizkost .gitignore, though.
I had to do something similar for Parrot, which actually expects .gitignore files in its MANIFEST :-)
PerlJam that's weird
pmichaud yeah, Coke already said to report it as a bug :-)
PerlJam Perhaps that's someone's way of nudging parrot towards using git 05:49
:-)
05:49 Su-Shee joined
lue Just thought I'd share this: www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=353 05:51
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sorear std: say $ 05:54
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/zAUQ64r1_V line 1:␤------> [32msay [33m⏏[31m$[0m␤Confused at /tmp/zAUQ64r1_V line 1:␤------> [32msay $[33m⏏[31m[0m␤ expecting twigil␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of
..bare…
sorear std: say $ 05:55
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/ru2zYMtkci line 1:␤------> [32msay [33m⏏[31m$[0m␤Confused at /tmp/ru2zYMtkci line 1:␤------> [32msay $[33m⏏[31m[0m␤ expecting twigil␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of
..bare…
pmichaud PerlJam: testing fix now.
lue Wow, that's the first time STD has printed bold text (for me) 05:56
05:57 azawawi joined
sorear yeah 05:58
I was hoping to get a nice error message 05:59
lue It's just the color that won't work in my IRC client :/
sorear $ is the Perl 5 syntax for $*OSNAME
etc 06:00
pmichaud hugme: add pmichaud to blizkost 06:03
hugme pmichaud: sorry, I don't know anything about project 'blizkost'
sorear pmichaud: I can apply patches 06:05
[particle] hugme: list projects
hugme [particle]: I know about Math-Model, Math-RungeKutta, MiniDBI, book, gge, hugme, ilbot, java2perl6, json, modules.perl6.org, november, nqp-rx, nqpbook, perl6-examples, perl6-wtop, process-cmd-args, proto, pugs, star, svg-matchdumper, svg-plot, tardis, temporal-flux-perl6syn, try.rakudo.org, tufte, ufo, web, yapsi
pmichaud sorear: I was just going to s/MANDIR/MAN_DIR/
sorear ?? ~~ s///?
mathw Morning 06:06
sorear hello mathw
pmichaud sorear: in build/Makefile.in 06:07
sorear :g?
pmichaud sure
MANDIR is never defined in the makefile, but MAN_DIR is. 06:08
azawawi I did some blizkost debugging last night on strawberry perl (win32). On perl 5.10, It works but does not actually print anything since it silently exits after calling Perl's NewX in p5_interpreter.pmc. On perl 5.12, it fails with a nasty not-found in DLL message... Both install ok.
pmichaud jnthn++ tested blizkost after making some changes this morning.
[particle] hopefully pmichaud's this morning was after azawawi's last night 06:09
pmichaud I'm sure it was.
we didn't have a tarball with the updates until much later in the day
sorear pmichaud: jnthn didn't push. 06:10
hope he doesn't mind me pushing my own change
pmichaud new tarball candidate at pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta6.tar.gz (yes, really beta6 this time)
azawawi [particle]: i'll test it now again on 5.12 :)
pmichaud jnthn's changes were to star, not to blizkost
(iiuc)
lue afk 06:14
06:22 am0c joined
itz d~ 06:23
are we there yet? :) 06:24
jnthn morning 06:26
mathw pmichaud: that tarball builds very nicely here and seems to work (fedora 13 x86_64)
06:26 kiwen joined
mathw -> the office 06:26
jnthn pmichaud: Gotta run off to station very shortly - how's things going?
mathw (buzzing like a mad thing with the sight of Form.pm in the distribution oh my he should have written some documentation)
azawawi jnthn: hi there
azawawi forks blizkost 06:27
tylercurtis should not have decided to build the R* beta5 tarball in a VM. 06:28
jnthn azawawi: hi 06:29
azawawi: Any luck on Blizkost with Strawberry?
azawawi jnthn: not really.. please see irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-07-29#i_2629431 06:30
itz well the compiler tests pass on beta6 on FreeBSD 8.1 06:31
jnthn azawawi: OK, thanks 06:35
Gotta to go the station...back in a bit.
dalek ecza: a5771c1 | sorear++ | (2 files):
Use a trait to explicitly mark functions that handle their own binding, rather
 06:46
ecza: 4fd8ff5 | sorear++ | (2 files):
Implement placeholder variables
ecza: 6a4a1ba | sorear++ | (4 files):
Eliminate cloning of lexpads

nothing useful in terms of supporting semantics, and it's not even compatible with what perl 5 does, but it did complicate stuff quite a bit.
ecza: 5b65b5a | sorear++ | Sig.pm:
Add low-level support for optional parameters
ecza: 46a4ce5 | sorear++ | (2 files):
Implement $_ as a placeholder
06:57 am0c joined, snarkyboojum joined
azawawi jnthn: my first git pull request sent :) 07:02
07:03 Ross joined 07:05 alexm left 07:06 alexm joined
szabgab rakudo: say "a b,c,d" ~~ rule { a \\w ** [\\,] } 07:07
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b␤»
szabgab can anyone help me to understand why this does not match the whole string? 07:08
moritz_ rakudo: say "a b,c,d" ~~ rule { a \\w**[\\,] }
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b␤»
07:08 baest joined
moritz_ rakudo: say "a b,c,d" ~~ rule { a \\w**\\, } 07:08
sorear [\\,] seems very contrived
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b␤»
moritz_ sorear: still it should work, no? 07:09
sorear should
szabgab oh, right I don't need the [] at the end
moritz_ rakudo: say "a b,c,d" ~~ rule { a \\w[\\,\\w]* } 07:10
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b,c,d␤»
dalek ecza: cc41bd3 | sorear++ | (2 files):
Implement chaining boolean operators, with short circuiting
szabgab moritz_: yes, that's a workaround :) 07:11
thanks
moritz_ szabgab: I have no idea what's wrong. 07:12
rakudo: say "a b,c,d" ~~ token { a <.ws> \\w ** \\, }
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b␤»
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pmichaud pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta7.tar.gz # candidate with latest blizkost fixes from sorear++ 08:15
08:15 sftp_ joined
mathw gets all excited 08:17
moritz_ downloads and compiles 08:21
08:23 Ross joined 08:28 jjore joined
mscha wishes everyone a Merry Christmas 08:29
baest :)
snarkyboojum you almost want a "This is rakudo star" type version string when you do ./perl6 -v :) 08:30
pmichaud yes, but we also want it to be separate from the compiler version 08:31
so it needs to really say "This is Rakudo Star version ..., built from Rakudo Perl compiler version XXX and Parrot version YYY"
snarkyboojum yeah 08:32
pmichaud which means having the distribution affect the compiler code somehow
cxreg "with sprinkles on top"
pmichaud all of which can be done...just have to figure out how to handle that cleanly.
(and not likely for today's release) 08:33
cosimo is anyone packaging rakudo* for debian?
would it be a nice thing to have?
08:33 dakkar joined
pmichaud I expect a number of packing folks will start creating .deb and .rpm based on Rakudo Star 08:33
moritz_ it would be a nice thing to have
pmichaud *packaging
cosimo rakudo: my @x = <a b c d>; say +@x;
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«4␤» 08:34
cosimo pmichaud: i was starting to look into how to make one
moritz_ somebody talked about it recently - but I don't know if any actions were taken
cosimo but if there's someone already up to it
moritz_ the first step is certainly providing parrot-2.6.0 packages
pmichaud I think parrot packages might already exist. 08:35
I'm guessing 2.6.0 might not exist, though. 08:36
cosimo rakudo: my @x; @x //= <a b c>; say @x; 08:37
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: ( no output )
pmichaud @x is already defined, so it won't be set.
cosimo rakudo: my @x; @x = <a b c> unless @x.defined; say @x;
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«␤»
08:37 a8b8126d joined
cosimo mmh, 'my @x' makes @x defined? 08:38
pmichaud as an empty array, yes.
cosimo rakudo: my @x; say @x.perl;
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«[]␤»
cosimo rakudo: my @x; unless @x { @x = <a b> }; say @x.perl; 08:39
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«["a", "b"]␤»
pmichaud perhaps declaring "my @x" should leave @x undefined until it gets vivified by some sort of operation, though.
cosimo so, iiuc, 'Mu' is the new 'undef'? 08:40
pmichaud cosimo: one of them :-)
moritz_ it's one of the new undefs
snarkyboojum the most undef? :)
pmichaud most generic undef, perhaps.
Su-Shee "there is no definition. it's all in your mind." 08:41
cosimo perl6 is addictive
moritz_ though for non-erro undefs, you usually use Any
pmichaud it's not addictive. I can stop at any time. Maybe now would be a good time. :-)
rakudo: say 'a b,c,d' ~~ rule { \\w <[a..d> ** ',' } 08:43
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed regex at line 22, near "{ \\\\w <[a."␤»
moritz_ you mean, before the R* release?
pmichaud rakudo: say 'a b,c,d' ~~ rule { \\w <[a..d]> ** ',' }
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b,c,d␤»
moritz_ so, a problem with \\w ?
pmichaud bug located
yes
it's a problem with using ** on any character class
08:43 thebird joined
moritz_ but isn't <[a..d]> a character class too? 08:44
pmichaud it's an enumerated character class, so different internally
moritz_ my first R* one-liner: 08:45
./perl6 -e 'use Math::Model; my $m = Math::Model.new(derivatives => { v => "y", a => "v" }, initials => { v => 1, a => 0, y => 0}, variables => { a => { -$:y } }, captures => <y>); $m.integrate(:from(0), :to(10)); $m.render-svg("spring.svg")'
output: moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/spring.svg 08:46
cosimo despite the fact that new bugs are popping up all the time, for ex. my modules haven't been having any regressions due to newer rakudos for long time
pmichaud moritz_: I was half expecting "Null PMC Access in ... " :-P
moritz_ that's the model of an oscillating spring
and the curve shows the height
cosimo maybe it's also because I'm coding "baby perl6" :) 08:47
beta7 compiled and installed just fine
moritz_ cosimo: most error reports are about not-yet-explored corners
cosimo: only very few regressions occur - thanks to testing :-)
cosimo pmichaud: this is the only strange message i got, nopaste.snit.ch/22411 08:48
Could not find sub &Nil in NativeCall.pm6 08:49
pmichaud cosimo: looking
that one shouldn't have come up, most likely.
moritz_ cosimo: I got that message when an old .pir file was somewhere
like in ~/.perl6/lib/
cosimo moritz_: aha 08:50
pmichaud yes, that looks like the likely culprit
cosimo yes, I have old stuff in ~/.perl6
maybe the * installer could wipe out ~/.perl6 ?
moritz_ no
pmichaud certainly not :)
moritz_ it might warn
in Configure.pl, preferably
pmichaud the module loader should warn about such things 08:51
moritz_ I know that my p6 environment conflicts with R*, that's why I installed it as a different user
cosimo that was a stupid idea maybe. 08:53
is that i'm used to rebuild everything everytime
08:55 am0c joined
cosimo rakudo: my @x = <a b c>; if @x == 3 { say "You are right" } 08:56
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«You are right␤»
cosimo rakudo: my @x = <a b c>; say @x[2]; 08:57
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«c␤»
08:57 sftp joined 08:58 rhebus left 08:59 rhebus joined 09:00 darkop joined 09:03 masak joined
masak oh hai, #perl6! 09:03
frettled shark! 09:04
masak: o/
moritz_ \\o
masak \\o/
frettled ~~~~~~~~~/\\~~~~~~
masak frettled: my, you look shark today. 09:05
09:05 lucash joined, timbunce joined
frettled Today is still Rakudo Star day, right? 09:05
09:05 [particle] joined
moritz_ right 09:06
frettled I will SO enjoy this.
09:08 _jaldhar joined
lucash 有说中文的吗? 09:08
09:08 Leonidas joined
moritz_ lucash: if you ask in English, your chances of getting a good answer are higher 09:08
lucash can anybody speek chinese?
moritz_ I'm sure > 1G people can :-) 09:09
masak
moritz_ conferences.yapceurope.org/ye2010/news/617 <-- still no correct answers submitted - some #perl6 folks should try
au|irc lucash: 有, 但我得出門了, masak 會說一點兒, but this channel is primarily english :)
jnthn pmichaud: latest beta-7 is busted on Win32
./perl6 --target=pir --output=C:\\Consulting\\rakudo-star-beta7\\install\\lib\\parrot
\\2.6.0\\languages\\perl6\\lib/YAML/Dumper.pir C:\\Consulting\\rakudo-star-beta7\\insta
ll\\lib\\parrot\\2.6.0\\languages\\perl6\\lib/YAML/Dumper.pm
'.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
au|irc seen mberends 09:10
lucash ok, maybe i can learn some more english here .
masak lucash: 你用Perl 6的吗？
sorear your command of English word order is remarkably good
lucash is this page write by Perl6 ?
sorear you already speak English better than any machine translator 09:11
masak lucash: no, likely not. are you coming in through webchat.freenode.net?
moritz_ au|irc: the IRC logs say mberends was last active on 2010-07-27 23:25 UTC
au|irc k, thx. beta6 works splendidly on macbook here
was just trying ths HTTP::Daemon sample code
needed to replace "$r.method" with "$r.request_method" 09:12
lucash masak: I have perl6 installed a few minutes ago;
masak where can I download and try the latest beta?
lucash: \\o/
lucash perl6.org
moritz_ pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta7.tar.gz
au|irc and for some reason "my HTTP::Request $r" needs to be replaced with "my $r", otherwise infix:<=> fails typecheck - but the .WHAT() is HTTP::Request alright
masak lucash: 你是哪里人？
au|irc but otherwise looking very cool :)
au|irc wishes everyone a merry summer Xmas
lucash 湖南人,现在在广东深圳
au|irc needs to run -- bbl :)
masak lucash: the perl6.org page is pure static HTML. 09:13
pmichaud jnthn: is that problem occuring for all module installs, or just the YAML::Dumper one?
jnthn pmichaud: All
moritz_ it doesn't like ./ ?
jnthn pmichaud: ./ is FAIL on windows
09:13 wamba joined, azawawi joined
masak lucash: ah, Hunan and Guangdong. I know where that is. 09:13
pmichaud jnthn: was it FAIL earlier? I don't think I changed anything there.
lucash i means i connected from perl6.org 09:14
azawawi jnthn: ping
jnthn pmichaud: I didn't try anything since BETA 4 last night
That worked.
cognominal where do I download the rakudo beta?
pmichaud jnthn: that's what I mean, I haven't really changed anything w.r.t. module install then 09:15
*since then
masak lucash: yes. if you did, you're connected through webchat.freenode
lucash 我怎么才可以对你说话呢??
pmichaud checks commit logs
jnthn pmichaud: The Rakudo installation seems to work though, it's just the modules
moritz_ cognominal: pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta7.tar.gz
cognominal probably a good idea would be to add the URL to the channel title.
moritz_ was about to do that
azawawi jnthn: traced blizkost DLL message box to "$P1 = loadlib 'blizkost_group', $P0" in perl5.pir (on perl 5.12)
masak lucash: it's a JavaScript program. no Perl 6 involved in the IRC client, sadly. 09:16
moderator »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star beta: pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta7.tar.gz 09:16
pmichaud do we really need it in the title for 2.5 hrs?! 09:16
that seems... odd.
masak lucash: 我怎样才能帮助您开始使用Perl 6？
moritz_ pmichaud: I've answered that question 2 times on 20 minutes or so :-) 09:17
jnthn pmichaud: Mostly need to concentrate on meeting here
masak uses Google Translate, hoping the language won't be too botched
pmichaud jnthn: I'll take a look.
lucash 我是初学者..应该从哪里开始呢??
jnthn 'k 09:18
pmichaud oh, I think I know where the problem may be.
lucash 我用了一段时间的perl5
jnthn pmichaud: oh, did you switch to copying a perl6 executable out of the build directory?
pmichaud my @cmd = ('./perl6', '--target=pir', "--output=$out", $pm);
...but I could've sworn it's been that way for quite a while.
masak lucash: check out perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/0...-calendar/ and perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 09:19
pmichaud jnthn: fwiw, that "./perl6" line is from before your fixes. :)
moritz_ maybe it's easier to modify PATH, and always use 'perl6' ? 09:20
jnthn pmichaud: huh :S
pmichaud: So I wonder how this worked on my machine at home.
pmichaud jnthn: I dunno. :)
jnthn pmichaud: But then fails on my laptop.
I certainly got the modules installed yesterday
kiwen Perl6太不同了，对于老Perl人来说，我们该怎么办？
pmichaud anyway, I'll change it to always use the full path to the install bin
jnthn +1 09:21
lucash 怎么个不同法??
09:21 snyh joined
pmichaud huh 09:21
I was already passing in the full path to the perl6 binary, but then never used it in the script. 09:22
weird.
creating new candidate tarball
lucash what's the differece between perl5 and perl6 ?
pmichaud it's like the difference between a camel and a butterfly :)
kiwen 很多，得用新的方式去写Perl程序
moritz_ lucash: quite a lot; they are different language, though both are Perl, in some sense
lucash: perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 tries to answer that question in more detail 09:23
pmichaud: btw if you want to include the 5-to-6 series as .pod files in R*, I can point you to the pod files 09:24
masak lucash: Perl 5的和Perl 6是在表面上类似，但在不同的深度
hm, s/的//
pmichaud moritz_: for the most part I'm thinking it's better to get people used to going to the perl6.org site
rather than try to bundle everything in R* itself.
moritz_ pmichaud: agreed
pmichaud I even changed the announcement wording a bit to try to indicate "perl6.org is your answer" 09:25
09:25 shomodj joined
masak lucash: but the only way to really understand the differences between Perl 5 and Perl 6, is to actually use Perl 6 for a while. 09:26
moritz_ and use perl 5 for a while, too :-)
pmichaud jnthn: if you get a chance: pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta8.tar.gz 09:27
(might wait a sec to let me finish testing it here)
cxreg masak: is there any such thing as idiomatic perl 6 yet?
09:27 Mowah joined
masak cxreg: I think there is, but not 100% and not for very many types of code. 09:28
moritz_ cxreg: we're slowly working on some good practices
for example: use whitespace around infix operators
masak cxreg: I know non-idiomatic Perl 6 when I see it :P
cxreg eh
lol
moritz_ std: 1<2 09:29
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Whitespace required before < operator at /tmp/iC5EaU1rH3 line 1:␤------> [32m1<[33m⏏[31m2[0m␤ expecting escape␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
cosimo rakudo: my $x = time(); say $x;
cxreg moritz_: wow
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1280394544␤»
masak cxreg: people are still allowed to use parentheses after 'for' and 'if'. but it kinda looks wonky.
rakudo: for (1, 2, 3) { .say }
moritz_ ... if they put a space before the (
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
cxreg presumably any such "best practices" are likely to end up in the book
pmichaud s/the/a/ 09:30
masak that'd be desirable.
jnthn pmichaud: just set off a build
cxreg pmichaud: "the book" meaning perl6/book.git
moderator »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star beta: pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta8.tar.gz 09:30
pmichaud 149 minutes. 09:31
moritz_ which actually has a name
"Using Perl 6"
pmichaud I dunno, "the book" has a nice ring to it. :-)
moritz_ we should start using that name :-)
pmichaud speaking of which, chromatic++ was asking about cover designs at oscon :-)
moritz_ would like to be involved in such discussions, if possible 09:32
jnthn lolcat with "I can use Perl 6?"
;-)
09:32 kiwen left
pmichaud jnthn: "make modules-install" is now using the full pathname on my machine. 09:32
cxreg pmichaud: i considered calling it "The Book" 09:33
but maybe thats too presumptuous
pmichaud For some reason I couldn't get the book to build on my system earlier. It worked fine last week, but today I got weird errors.
PerlJam++ came to my rescue, though :-)
mathw people might think it's about cthulhu
and Perl 6 isn't that scary :)
09:33 muixirt joined
huf call it "the good book" 09:34
pmichaud my mind tonight was wandering to ideas about the "Rakudo Dark Star" and "Rakudo Death Star" editions. :-P
...at which point I was thinking of making some movie clips around those themese
huf there's also Lone Star ;)
pmichaud *themes
cxreg and Home Star 09:35
pmichaud well, I'm still amused by the one naysayer who talked about "Rakudo Star Trek" as this endless quest for .......
huf Day Star
:D
where no perl has gone before
09:35 JimmyZ joined
muixirt R* is based on the "Atlanta" release? 09:35
JimmyZ :)
moritz_ muixirt: no
JimmyZ masak++
moritz_ muixirt: that proved to be too broken
pmichaud muixirt: yes, with a few updates since then
muixirt: it's not strictly the atlanta release, no. 09:36
cxreg pmichaud: i think the term was "Perl Trek" at the time
moritz_ www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=851885
moritz_ tries to do some advertising :-)
pmichaud there's a "Star+0" tag in the github repository that identifies the exact version of rakudo being used for this star release.
cxreg use.perl.org/comments.pl?cid=70186&sid=43556
sorear Is lucash still here and needing help?
lucash I'm reading UseringPerl6-draft.pdf 09:37
cosimo rakudo: my %x = ('a'=>1,'b'=>2); %x<a>.delete; say %x.perl;
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Method 'delete' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/WkMgCez7ca␤»
cosimo rakudo: my %x = ('a'=>1,'b'=>2); delete %x<a>; say %x.perl;
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &delete␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/_4WwfWD1Xl␤»
szbalint masak: the world IS watching :) 09:38
masak :)
cosimo rakudo: my %x = ('a'=>1,'b'=>2); %x.delete('a'); say %x.perl;
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«{"b" => 2}␤»
cosimo ok :)
masak great. now p6l has made the ranges thread be about localization. feels like a sort of Godwin's law could be invoked on that thread now.
moritz_ has stopped again following that thread 09:39
pmichaud moritz_++ # nice answer to the "join two files" question on perlmonks!
cosimo rakudo: if my $x = 3.14156259 { print $x } 09:40
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«3.14156259»
cxreg pmichaud: when the book didnt build, was it complaining about a missing UsingPerl6.letter.d or something like that?
pmichaud cxreg: yes.
moritz_ it seems the A4 version is more robust :-)
sorear The correct answer to our friend on perlmonks is "paste 09:41
"
masak lucash: if you have any questions, feel free to ask here. 如果您有任何疑问，请问在这里
sorear paste FILE1 FILE2 prints lines from both files, in parrallel, separated by tabs, padding short files with blanks
lucash OK,thx
sorear JimmyZ is another native speaker 09:42
masak moritz_: how'd that be written if one doesn't want to abort when the shortest file ends?
flw flw@waker:~/soft/rakudo-star-beta7$ ./perl6
> my @array = (1..10000);
Segmentation fault
flw@waker:~/soft/rakudo-star-beta7$
09:43 mb_ joined, betterworld joined
sorear flw: Don't make arrays that big. 09:43
masak flw: likely due to out-of-memory.
flw big array lead to Segmentation fault 09:44
moritz_ masak: if you know in advance which one is short, pad one of them with '' xx _*
sorear Right. Don't do that, then.
huf 10k is a big array?
moritz_ funny thing is, infinite arrays don't segfault
pmichaud parrot has trouble with large arrays.
moritz_ my @a = 1..*
pmichaud or large data structures
JimmyZ oh,flw is here too, another native speaker
huf moritz_: yeah, but those are small infinite ;)
masak huf: it is for Rakudo.
sorear huf: each element results in the allocation of about 200 bytes on the stack at GC mark time
JimmyZ flw: It's me!
sorear huf: so yes, 10k can easily cause segfault
huf :( 09:45
cosimo is there anything resembling Errno in perl6? like 'if $! == EINPROGRESS { do_something }'
masak 卓明亮! \\o/
jnthn pmichaud: Excellent, beta8 works.
moritz_ cosimo: no
pmichaud jnthn: \\o/
cosimo moritz_: ok, non blocking sockets?
sorear cosimo: we do something completely different for that
moritz_ cosimo: I might work on a proper exception system though
JimmyZ masak: :)
moritz_ cosimo: mberends wanted to work on them - no idea what the status is
09:46 hryk joined
masak JimmyZ: are you excited today? I am. 09:46
lucash flw 很厉害.我听说过.
JimmyZ yes!
mb_ hi, i'm sure i'm just not looking hard enough, but how does one consult Perl6 module documentation when the installed rakudo doesn't seem to have perl6doc or similar?
JimmyZ 呵呵
masak mb_: it depends a lot. what module are we talking about? 09:47
pmichaud mb_: there's not a perl6doc yet.
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cosimo rakudo: my $ret = connect(42); 09:48
pmichaud mb_: that's something I hope we'll be able to correct very soon.
sorear priority things to get working in niecza: arrays, hashes, simple autovivification, named parameters, simple MMD, the rest of the regex syntax, roles, LTM
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &connect␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/693wKg4UMT␤»
sorear out.
mb_ pmichaud, ok, thanks, I thought that might be the case. I just wanted to browse the docs for the included modules, nothing serious
pmichaud mb in the modules/ directory one can generally view the READMEs. I know that's less than awesome, but that's what we have at the moment. 09:49
masak sorear++
pmichaud anyone feel that I'm going a bit too far in describing things Rakudo Star doesn't implement yet? github.com/rakudo/star/blob/master/...ce/2010.07
moritz_ yes 09:50
pmichaud just added a bit more, reload :)
moritz_ no need to include hypothetical variables
people don't knwo what that is anyway
pmichaud removed. 09:51
moritz_ the others are fine, IMHO
pmichaud okay.
moritz_ ..with one exception :-)
"and other phasers"
we do implement a few of them
that's not quite clear 09:52
pmichaud "and some other phasers"?
moritz_ better
pmichaud fixed, pushed. 09:53
frettled pmichaud: this will be in docs/announce/2010.07, right? 09:54
pmichaud frettled: yes.
and in the various posted announcements.
frettled Hmm. Perhaps a small pointer from README to that, then. 09:55
frettled fiddles quickly to see how that can be done neatly. 09:56
09:59 patrickas joined
patrickas Hello perlsixers! It's a starry night tonight! 10:00
pmichaud t-120
masak patrickas++ # starry night 10:01
moritz_ 12:00 UTC is the target?
pmichaud moritz_: that's my current target, yes.
patrickas pmichaud about the annoucement, small nit, it's kinda "unfair/weird" that there is "and much more" in the not implemented features, but not in the available ones ... 10:02
moritz_ aye, remove that part - it says "key features" on top anyway :-)
pmichaud patrickas: yes, I just thought of that as well. but I'm still biased to "underpromise, overdeliver"
10:02 Searle joined
pmichaud I can remove "..and much more", yes. 10:02
masak +1 10:03
szbalint pmichaud: "interactive readline doesn't read Unicode" -> "interactive readline that reads Unicode"
patrickas you could just leave the ellipsis to make it clear the list is not comprehensive ...
cxreg Batteries Not Included
pmichaud I already have "Some of the..." so I guess the ellipsis isn't needid. 10:04
*needed
szabgab: +1
patrickas that's right!
pmichaud changes pushed.
moritz_ abgab != balint :-) 10:05
pmichaud oops
right
I got it right in the comment message :)
szbalint hehe, common mistake :)
pmichaud well, not exactly.
anyway, I got the 'lint' part right in the commit message.
moritz_ (though so far I've only met one of them in person, so I can't be quite sure - hope that fix that at YAPC :-)
frettled Proposed README changes: pastebin.com/ddcKbyai 10:06
masak beta7 installs fine here. pmichaud++ 10:08
moritz_ beta7? you're so behind, masak++ :-)
frettled beta7 is SO yesterday ;)
pmichaud frettled: your README patch seems to be for the rakudo README, not the Star README? 10:09
szbalint how fitting, a lint fix gets lint kudos :)
cxreg so besides rakudo, are there any other relatively mature parrot compilers?
frettled pmichaud: arghle, good point :)
I ended up editing the wrong tree, haha.
masak moritz_: huh? I got the URL from you not an hour ago :P
pmichaud :-)
t-110 10:10
moritz_ cxreg: lua, tcl (partcl/partcl-nqp)
don't know how pynie is doing
colomon t minus 110? woah.
moritz_ where 110 is in minutes :-)
pmichaud 110 is "magical Pm time units", which means I can make them as long or short as I need them to be. :-P 10:11
colomon I thought we were looking at an evening release.
cxreg moritz_: might be nice if this release draws attention to those projects too
colomon will be much harder to justify having celebratory Scotch at 8am local.
pmichaud as I said in my Rakudo Star talk at OSCON.... "we've been working on Perl 6 for what... three or four years now...?" :-P
10:11 Trashlord joined, davewood joined, lichtkind joined
pmichaud colomon: celebrations can last as long as needed :) 10:11
moritz_ cxreg: wouldn't be bad, but IMHO outside of our scope 10:12
lichtkind pmichaud: :)
colomon pmichaud++
pmichaud somehow I felt that 12h00 utc would be more appropriate.
not sure exactly why, but I like it.
it does mean that most of the world will be in "July 29th"
moritz_ fells better than 23:59 :-) 10:13
masak I think I found an inconsistency between S26 and the spec. but I should probably save it until after the release frenzy. 10:14
pmichaud (S26 isn't part of the spec? ;-)
or did you mean "and other parts of the spec"?
Su-Shee what's the final download link for everyone?
masak I consider it less a part of the spec than other synopses, since it has no Perl 6 implementation yet. 10:15
but yes, "other parts of the spec".
pmichaud Su-Shee: it'll be on github.... see the first part of the draft announcement
cxreg wait, ingy wrote S26? and it's not POD-in-yaml?
pmichaud ingy contributed to early drafts, yes.
moritz_ but mostly written by TheDamian, iirc
masak aye. 10:16
I'm correcting typos as I read along. will commit those when I'm done.
pmichaud one of the pieces I'm really keen to implement is .WHY :-) 10:17
masak I'm also considering writign a full proposal to p6l before changing S26 to include the latest finds on declarator-style Pod.
moritz_ masak: don't :-)
pmichaud masak: how many colors do you want that spec in? ;-)
masak I know, I know.
they will probably hack the proposal to bits, but someone may have something good to say as well. strange things do happen. 10:18
frettled pmichaud: There: pastebin.com/RXu093aB
pmichaud "no plan survives first contact with p6l"
masak I'll nopaste the patch here first, of course.
Su-Shee utc 12 is 14 at my time - that would be wonderful.
moritz_ Su-Shee: s/my/our/ :-)
Su-Shee moritz_: _you_ already have at least 10 perl6' around, what do you need another one for? :) 10:19
frettled Su-Shee: he's a collector?
moritz_ Su-Shee: for blogging :-) 10:20
colomon so how do I add a test to the stress test but not basic spec test? is it the "long" modifier, or is that something different?
Su-Shee so 14 uhr it is? (shall we hope for success and bring down github? ;) 10:21
10:21 xabbu42 joined
pmichaud can I eliminate docs/introduction ? it's not quite clear where it goes. 10:21
I'd rather leave it as "see perl6.org/" 10:22
moritz_ colomon: # stress
pmichaud or have it point to a page on rakudo.org
moritz_ Su-Shee: aye
colomon colomon++
moritz_++ 10:23
colomon-- # obviously not fully awake
pmichaud colomon: I think it's documented at the top of the spectest.data file, fwiw :)
moritz_ colomon++ # writing tests
colomon pmichaud: I looked there before asking
moritz_ obviously not fully awake :-)
colomon but you're right, it is documented there.
sigh
pmichaud feel free to improve it :) 10:24
lucash how can I find perl6doc ?
pmichaud lucash: there isn't a perl6doc yet. :(
colomon pmichaud: pretty sure it's just another sign I'm not really awake
Su-Shee moritz_: I'm going to slogan it as "make your camel a butterfly" ;)
pmichaud colomon: maybe a patch that is something like "HEY COLOMON WAKE UP AND READ THE DOCUMENTATION WE ALREADY PROVIDED!" :-P
sometimes I need a patch like that for myself. :) 10:25
Su-Shee silly me drinks coffee.
pmichaud I'm getting rid of docs/introduction unless I hear an objection soon. :) 10:26
colomon "or forever hold your peace" 10:27
pmichaud nah, we have "git revert" :-)
it's like a magic "undo" button for real life. 10:28
moritz_ which is actually much easier to use than svn's revert mechanism
masak "git makes it never too late to say you're sorry"
moritz_ ... unless you get merge conflicts
pmichaud but even then you can rewrite history. :)
"merge conflict? I see no merge conflict here."
colomon I'm glad weddings don't really do that, because we're taking our little guy to one Saturday, and I'm pretty sure if the minister asked a question and there was a long moment of silence afterward, Henry would yell "Yes!" at the top of his lungs.
he does that at home all the time... 10:29
pmichaud my first wedding asked that question
brian_ what happens after rakudo star? are there plans for a *+1, or something?
pmichaud I think my second wedding did as well, but the children (the only other people in attendance) wisely kept silent. :)
brian_: we'll have regular releases of the star series 10:30
colomon pmichaud: oh no, now I've got to worry about Saturday....
pmichaud brian_: at least monthly to begin with, possibly more frequently to deal with significant bug fixes or improvements
10:30 tadzik joined
brian_ pmichaud: ok, thanks 10:30
pmichaud as the emphasis moves away from "fix things" to "provide continuity across releases", we'll move to less-than-monthly
but we'll always have some sort of time-based release. 10:31
colomon brian_: we'll also continue to have regular monthly releases of Rakudo non-star.
pmichaud yes, the compiler will continue to have monthly releases, on a separate timeline from the distributions
T-90
masak \\o/
brian_ colomon: that answers my next question
pmichaud afk for a bit.
bbkr std: {}*{}*{} 10:32
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
brian_ fwiw beta8 passes all tests here, and parrot passes fulltest
mathw \\o/ 10:33
bbkr std: *//* # curious 10:34
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
10:36 colomon2 joined, daxim joined
tuxuday rakudo: say 'poda, santosh'; 10:36
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«poda, santosh␤»
10:37 tadzik1 joined
tuxuday rakudo: say 'santosh, is stupid'; 10:37
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«santosh, is stupid␤»
10:37 jt_ joined
tuxuday rakudo: say 'Santosh is', 5+ 4; 10:37
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Santosh is9␤»
10:38 uasi left
bbkr std: say ---0.0 10:38
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
bbkr rakudo: say ---0.0
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/o1nSSXTt_t␤»
bbkr reports
masak bbkr: nothing to report, IMO.
bbkr: STD only catches parse failures.
mathw just because STD parses it doesn't mean it's semantically correct
bbkr hmm, let me check op precedence again 10:39
indeed. it's "-(--0.0)" not --(-0.0). masak++
masak no, LTM would have it as --(-0.0), and Rakudo gets that right. 10:40
colomon beta8 fails on my 64-bit windows box. (don't think I've ever had a successful Rakudo build there, actually. I hate that machine.) :(
masak the error is because you're trying to modify -0.0, a constant.
STD doesn't flag that error, because it doesn't run the code, it only parses it.
bbkr yep. i meant it's parsed as --(-1). sorry about false alarm :) 10:41
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bbkr std: say !!!!0 10:45
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Negation metaoperator not followed by valid infix at /tmp/54CQUDcUCu line 1:␤------> [32msay !!!![33m⏏[31m0[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
bbkr std: say !!0 10:46
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
bbkr std: say ! ! ! ! 0 10:47
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
timbunce Given Rakudo Star release today I'd love to see someone blog about future plans/possibilities for 5-on-6 running and 5-to-6 conversion. 10:49
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mathw timbunce: people would be interested in that, yes 10:49
10:49 azert0x joined
mathw timbunce: No, that wasn't me volunteering to write it 10:49
lucash quit 10:50
timbunce mathw: :)
lucash byebye,everyone ..see you next;
10:51 zby joined
pmichaud I thought I saw mathw++ volunteer to write something. 10:51
Su-Shee how many women were at YAPC?
mathw pmichaud: Did you?
I was mumbling earlier about how I really should have written some documentation for Form.pm already 10:52
pmichaud mathw: no, I think it was something about 5-on-6 or 5-to-6 :-) :-)
mathw Har har very funny
You're getting incoherent from lack of sleep, clearly 10:53
pmichaud Su-Shee: I didn't notice a significant increase or decrease over previous years
Su-Shee: however, OSCON had a lot more women than previous years afaict
Su-Shee yesterday, I started writing an application for a javascript conference here in berlin which is already sold out BUT they have google grants specifically for women to attend more conferences. pays entrance fee and some traveling. that might be a good thing for yapcs 10:54
pmichaud that would be a very good thing, I think.
Su-Shee mr shee on the other hand dryly said that one could easily open any conference entirely for women without fees and still wouldn't be run over. ;) 10:55
pmichaud: besides the money, it shiny to show off some google grant, so there is a strong incentive. (I live around the corner, my travel expenses will be 2,40,- Euro. ;) 10:56
"it's"
pmichaud Su-Shee: I agree. Also, often one grant leads to more grants
if only because you become known to the people giving away money :) 10:57
jnthn about again for a moment
pmichaud: 1 hour to Rakudo Star?
pmichaud T-63
Su-Shee I'm going to try, I count on being "interesting enough" as I usally don't bring the "strong academic background in CS"
masak mathw: you're volunteering? great!
mathw++
10:58 dieken joined
snarkyboojum I get a couple of build errors for MiniDBD modules, but nothing fatal 10:58
well, nothing fatal to the build of rakudo and other modules anyway
3600 seconds to go 11:00
jnthn pmichaud: \\o/
pmichaud T-60
11:00 jferrero joined
masak rakudo: say sprintf "%d min, %d s remaining", $_ div 60, $_ % 60 given DateTime.new("2010-07-29T12:00:00Z").posix - time 11:00
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«79 min, 18 s remaining␤»
jnthn What time does the fire start shooting out the bottom of the tarball? :-)
pmichaud probably around t-2 11:01
masak moritz_: someone's clock is a bit slow.
jnthn :-D
pmichaud it's a big tarball :-)
masak rakudo: say sprintf "%d min, %d s remaining", $_ div 60 - 20, $_ % 60 given DateTime.new("2010-07-29T12:00:00Z").posix - time # :) 11:02
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«58 min, 1 s remaining␤»
masak moritz_: about 20 minutes slow. :)
darkop masak++ 11:03
jnthn pmichaud: The "Storing classes in bytecode" thing is kinda, well, irrelevant for Rakudo.
pmichaud: Classes are just objects.
(Or will be, anyway)
pmichaud jnthn: you mean the thread or my response?
jnthn pmichaud: The thread overall
pmichaud: Once R* is out, I'll try and get some serious writing done (like, over the coming week or so) on where I see things going. 11:04
pmichaud they're mainly trying to get to a point where freeze/thaw can reduce our startup.
I was just pointing out that "setting up classes" means something very different to us than what Parrot views a class as being.
so yes, likely irrelevant. :)
jnthn Aye, but since we won't use Class or Object after a couple/few months...
pmichaud the point of that thread really should be "freeze/thaw" and not "Class PMC" 11:05
jnthn Right.
That's the bigger issue here
pmichaud I'm hoping that's where it will lead
which is why I was trying to move the discussion away from "Class PMC"
jnthn And in that case it's interesting.
aye, +1 on that
pmichaud I might've not been clear yet on that -- I'm a bit preoccupied with other things for some reason. :-)
jnthn Anyway, I think allison will be at YAPC::EU so I can probably talk with her a bit on what I think things will look like.
Too bad chromatic won't be though. 11:06
masak would like to meet chromatic some day 11:07
jnthn OK, time for me to get back to $dayjob stuffs
masak: Aye, I enjoyed doing so. :-)
pmichaud chromatic++ is one of my favorite people
jnthn masak: He was very pleasant and fun to spend time around. :-)
masak I can imagine.
colomon agreed, meeting chromatic at YAPC was cool. 11:08
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jnthn OK, I'm mostly distracted for the next little bit with stuff here :-) 11:08
colomon actually, all the Parrot gang there seemed like great guys.
beta8 works great on my 64-bit Linux box. 11:09
tadzik where is it?
11:09 araujo joined
colomon tadzik: where is what? 11:10
tadzik colomon: beta8. Rakudo Star I suppose?
colomon pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta8.tar.gz
tadzik will try
alexm both beta8 and tarball made from star repo work fine for me too, all rakudo-tests pass 11:15
tadzik t/01-sanity/99-test-basic.t ........ Dubious, test returned 1 (wstat 256, 0x100) 11:17
11:21 korbatz joined
tadzik probably some lying pirs issue again 11:21
how do I install it into a specific directory? 11:22
moritz_ with --prefix 11:23
tadzik to Configure? 11:24
moritz_ but that won't stop it from picking up other .pirs
yes
tadzik yeah, I know. After reconfigure I'll need to rebuild it, right?
moritz_ right
masak ♥ S26 11:25
I didn't remember it as this good.
just needs a few minor tweaks. :) 11:26
moritz_ is there a page listing rules for Hague grant applications somewhere?
masak yes.
tadzik make DESTDIR=foo is also ok, as in Rakudo itself?
pmichaud moritz_: www.perlfoundation.org/ian_hague_pe...ent_grants
tadzik: DESTDIR= should work but is somewhat untested. 11:27
masak pmichaud++ # faster
tadzik pmichaud: will test
moritz_ pmichaud++ # thanks
pmichaud tadzik: it appears to be working on my system. 11:28
T-30 11:30
whee pmichaud: I see the same failure
pmichaud what test are you running?
patrickas beta8 built but did not run on my PC :( it might be my fault for having a messed up env though! 11:31
whee more specific than 99-test-basic.t?
snarkyboojum FWIW, blowing away previous pirs for the MiniDBD stuff fixed my build errors
pmichaud whee: what command are you using to invoke the test?
whee make rakudo-test
pmichaud hmmm
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pmichaud any chance there's a Test.pir or Test.pm somewhere and that it's grabbing the wrong one? 11:32
patrickas windows7 here, I get "The Program can't start because libparrot.dll is missing from your computer"
whee could an existing rakudo install interfere with it?
frettled Where is beta9? ;)
pmichaud whee: yes. 11:33
patrickas: did you "make install"?
whee let me try removing it
tadzik pmichaud: it seems not to work on mine, when installed with fakeroot
patrickas pmichaud yes ... but I also have a different parrot / rakudo installed on some other path so it might be interfeering with it
tadzik pmichaud: it cp's to /usr/bin/perl6 anyway 11:34
what is more, cp doesn't fail, chmod does
masak yay -- twitter.com/morungos/status/19818766217
11:36 xinming_ joined
tadzik pmichaud: can it be possible to get the same working DESTDIR as in Rakudo? 11:36
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tadzik packaging it now will be a little painful 11:37
pmichaud tadzik: afaik it is the same DESTDIR as rakudo.
tadzik: I mean, it's using rakudo's makefile for the install.
tadzik pmichaud: I'm now using Configure.pl --prefix=/usr and make DESTDIR=$PKG install
will paste the build error 11:38
pmichaud: nopaste.snit.ch/22415
pmichaud tadzik: oh. Note that you have to build/install parrot separately in order for it to work.
tadzik pmichaud: yeah, parrot's installed 11:39
jferrero AMD Turion64x2, Linux OpenSuse 11.2. No errors.
pmichaud looking
tadzik: oh. that particular step isn't actually installing anything "for real" 11:40
I can have it not die if that step fails.
tadzik pmichaud: but it kills the whole process
pmichaud right
so I can have it "not die"
tadzik pmichaud: what does it do anyway
?
patrickas pmichaud: during make install i noticed rakudo-star-beta8\\install\\bin\\perl6.exe being used ... it works when I run it that was, but the rakudo-star-beta8\\perl6.exe gives me the error
pmichaud it just puts a copy of perl6 into the current directory 11:41
tadzik ah, I see
pmichaud to make it easy to run and test immediately.
patrickas maybe better wait for jnthn and see if he can help with it
pmichaud patrickas: thinking.
Su-Shee hm, clicking refresh doesn't really help until 2. ;) 11:42
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pmichaud patrickas: yeah, windows is looking for the .dll in the same location as the executable, I think. 11:43
patrickas I can confirm that if you want ... just a sec
tadzik pmichaud: what about this installing? It'll break packaging on at least Arch Linux and similar, and maybe on more distros too
jnthn pmichaud: If you are copying the perl6.exe then you'll also need to copy the libparrot.dll too 11:44
pmichaud jnthn: where do we do that in rakudo now, ooc? 11:45
tadzik: try changing lines 84 and 85 of your makefile from
colomon t-15
pmichaud $(CP) $(PARROT_BIN_DIR)/$(PERL6_EXE) .
$(CHMOD) 755 $(PERL6_EXE)
to
-$(CP) $(PARROT_BIN_DIR)/$(PERL6_EXE) .
-$(CHMOD) 755 $(PERL6_EXE)
and then see if make works with DESTDIR=
whee pmichaud: make rakudo-test passes if I remove the rakudo I had installed (arch linux package) 11:46
pmichaud whee++ # thanks
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tadzik pmichaud: rakudo/Makefile? 11:46
pmichaud tadzik: no, the Makefile above 11:47
the one in the build dir
patrickas pmichaud: confirmed (what jnthn++ said) ... copying libparrot.dll to the same folder solves the issue
pmichaud that's the one that's causing your problem
tadzik pmichaud: hold on, I'll have to build the whole thing
jnthn pmichaud: Makefile 11:48
pmichaud jnthn: yes, but where in the makefile? ;-)
jnthn pmichaud: grep for libparrot.dll 11:49
pmichaud: I think it's after the stage 1 is built
pmichaud jnthn: it's added there specially by Configure.pl :-( 11:50
i.e., it's not a natural part of the makefile
hmmm.
frettled 555 seconds?
jnthn pmichaud: That sounds familiar. 11:51
pmichaud is it just the parrot dll?
jnthn yes
Well, that's all we copy in master.
patrickas Yes copying that single file made it work here 11:52
jnthn You could perl -e "if $O =~ /Win32/ ..."
tadzik pmichaud: still failing
masak this isn't related to R*, so no need to panic. also, it might be known already. I'm getting this, and have been for the past day or so, when building Rakudo: gist.github.com/497917
pmichaud tadzik: I don't think I'm likely to get DESTDIR fixed in the next few minutes. 11:53
tadzik: it's going to take a lot of work to fix that. We'll get it in the next star release.
cosimo pmichaud: i got a mail from use perl about your new post, but the post is not available 'Sorry, the requested journal entries were not found.' is that known? 11:54
tadzik pmichaud: oh, ok. there are some errors but ignored, and the tree gets installed. Should it look like this: nopaste.snit.ch/22417 ?
pmichaud cosimo: use.perl jumped the gun on me.
tadzik: that's missing quite a few files.
(like, all of the modules) 11:55
did you just do rakudo-install, or modules-install, or install?
tadzik install
pmichaud yeah
I think DESTDIR will need some more work.
patrickas afk
tadzik hmm
pmichaud we can likely fix it with a patch for packagers.
tadzik pmichaud: nopaste.snit.ch/22418 maybe another ignored errors in Makefile would fix it? 11:56
pmichaud tadzik: no, that won't be sufficient
the module install doesn't seem to be honoring DETDIR
DESTDIR
tadzik damn. What can we do about it? 11:57
pmichaud I already said what we can do about it.
tadzik sigh
pmichaud I can't see it as being big enough to hold the release for long. 11:58
masak +1
pmichaud Release hold at T-1 11:59
frettled +1.1
tadzik: 22418 seems to be a missing test for whether cp() actually copied something, should be easy to fix, but then again, it's correct behaviour to barf when you don't get to install the file. 12:00
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frettled tadzik: oh, wait, I misread the paste. 12:01
tadzik frettled: well, I just hope the rest of the distros will be able to package the first Perl 6 Distribution
frettled tadzik: path error
ouin (are we there yet?) 12:02
masak rakudo: say sprintf "%d min, %d s remaining", $_ div 60 - 20, $_ % 60 given DateTime.new("2010-07-29T12:00:00Z").posix - time 12:03
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«-3 min, 10 s remaining␤»
pmichaud I'm working on the windows bug a moment
masak pmichaud++
pmichaud that one is worth fixing
Su-Shee I tweeted it already. ;)
frettled «it»? 12:04
That's a short tweet! ;)
pmichaud all of the windows folks had been telling me it was working, so this caught me by surprise a bit
frettled masak: how nice that it works ;)
jnthn pmichaud: It was for me... :S 12:05
Su-Shee frettled: "make your camel a butterfly! - Rakudo Star (Perl 6) released plus download url ;)
masak waits eagerly 12:07
pmichaud I'm holding on a download+build
Su-Shee masak: for what? the masses flocking the channel? (I already ask #perl to redirect the folks here..) 12:08
asked.
moritz_ is so glad he's not the release manager :-)
alexm it'd seem that facebook got impressed with my recent identi.ca posts about Perl 6 www.facebook.com/pages/Perl-6/142666805745620
they created that page automatically
Su-Shee moritz_: "Für Nutzerfragen jeder Art steht allen Lesern Moritz Lenz zur Verfügung.." ;) 12:09
moritz_
.oO( ... )
foodoo Facebook is evil
Su-Shee good point I could use my facebook account once.. 12:10
masak Su-Shee++
colomon alexm: I just "arrr'd" it. 12:11
frettled alexm++ — good publicity
jferrero alexm, two more pages: www.facebook.com/pages/Perl-6/122481354428937 and www.facebook.com/pages/Perl-6/109854789044179
brian_ github.com/downloads/rakudo/star/ra....07.tar.gz 12:12
Su-Shee done.
brian_ woot!
Su-Shee anyone with a hackernews account?
moritz_ - but not sure if I remember the password :-)
masak synth: I have one. 12:13
argh.
Su-Shee: I have one.
Su-Shee masak: so go posting. :)
pmichaud careful,folks -- we may have a replacement tarball in a few minutes
tadzik www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/cv1l...kudo_star/
masak I'll hold for a while.
Su-Shee *hehe*
tadzik troll neutralized
masak man, I dislike that HIB0U. 12:14
alexm woot!
tadzik masak: I know what you mean. I think he alredy downvoted my from his frustration :>
masak tadzik: I upvoted you :) 12:15
moritz_ too
12:15 umphy joined
jferrero alexm, www.facebook.com/pages/Perl-6/122481354428937 is the most complete, with forum and gallery. 12:15
tadzik what is he at? It's 14:11 July 29 here
IIRC there can't be 12:16
.. can't be July 29 everywhere at the same time
moritz_ waits for pmichaud++ tweeting the release before spreading the news himself
Su-Shee mine works, is installed in /usr/local and says "hello" on the repl.
pmichaud I'm estimating 4 minutes.
but could be 14.
moritz_ underpromise, overdeliver 12:17
Guest19034 Delayed __again__ ;-)
pmichaud you'll see the tweet announcement here when it's ready :)
moritz_ that's why I replied with "less than an hour"
snarkyboojum tadzik: most of his posts on reddit pretty much involve complaining about something
tadzik snarkyboojum: yeah, mostly about Perl
pmichaud I don't get the impression it's just "complaining" 12:18
tadzik I sometimes feel like some Pythonists are taught how to hate Perl just after learning data types and control flow structures
masak meanwhile, Su-Shee is being re-tweeted by Ovid and bacek...
pmichaud his posts seem more actively hateful than just complaints
Su-Shee sorry. I was already finished even installing the tarball...
pmichaud Su-Shee: I think you tweeted before I had upload the tarball, though :)
maybe not. 12:19
colomon rakudo: sub infix:<d>($a, $b) { my @a = (1...$b).pick($a); say :@a.perl; [+] @a; } say 4d6
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub infix:"␤»
pmichaud I'm guessing repeated hits on the reload key ... :-)
colomon rakudo: sub infix:<d>($a, $b) { my @a = (1...$b).pick($a); say :@a.perl; [+] @a; }; say 4d6
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 4d6"␤»
12:19 nomad1 joined
Su-Shee pmichaud: no, I really checked before I pressed "tweet" :) 12:19
masak rakudo: sub infix:<d>($a, $b) { my @a = (1...$b).pick($a); say :@a.perl; [+] @a; }; say 4 d 6
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«"a" => [2, 6, 1, 4]␤13␤»
pmichaud Su-Shee: it's okay, I blame Microsoft. 12:20
colomon masak++
Su-Shee :))
cognominal so Rakudo * is officially released?
frettled colomon: ooh, that's a neat way of rolling dice
masak cognominal: no. 12:21
cognominal: we're on "magical pm time units" now.
12:22 zulon joined, nomad1 left, nomad1 joined
pmichaud rakudo.org/node/75 12:22
cognominal Apparently, some people here have jumped the gun.
Guest19034 Infinite time object?
moritz_ pmichaud: should I perlmonks it?
pmichaud hugme: tweet rakudoperl Rakudo Star (a useful, usable, "early adopter" distribution of Perl 6) now released: rakudo.org/node/75
hugme hugs pmichaud; tweet delivered
jnthn \\o/ 12:23
moritz_ pmichaud: you forgot #perl6, #rakudo
in the tweet :-)
frettled pmichaudˆˆ
pmichaud moritz_: again, yes.
snarkyboojum w00t!
pmichaud I'll fix.
jnthn pmichaud++
darkop yaaaay!
colomon \\o/
masak \\o/ 12:24
jnthn There will be a Win32 installer for this available in about 3 hours.
(when I get home from $dayjob-meeting)
avar submitted to hn: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1557329 12:25
masak avar++
who will submit to Slashdot?
moritz_ masak: you do it :-) 12:26
masak ok.
avar reddit too: www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen...y_adopter/ 12:27
jt_ none for M$ windows?
jferrero »ö« sweet day .... :)
jt_ oops hides, wait for 3 hours 12:28
moritz_ www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=851923 ... and perlmonks
daxim 's monitoring www.heise.de/newsticker/
pmichaud use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/40469
masak moritz_++
colomon masak: omgitsfullofbutterflies !
cognominal kudos to pmichaud, jnthn and everyone who made that to happen. 12:29
masak :)
mathw It's out? YAY!!!
moritz_ indeed. everyone++
and especially pmichaud++
masak hugme: hug everyone
hugme hugs everyone
BinGOs Can we expect Duke Nukem Forever next?
masak hugme: hug pmichaud
hugme hugs pmichaud and blushes
moritz_ BinGOs: no, development on DNF has stalle
masak BinGOs: d
tadzik BinGOs: not until GNU Hurd is oficially out
BinGOs heh
pmichaud erm, I've forgotten the password for the @rakudoperl account on twitter to be able to fix my tweet. oh well, we'll let it goes as is. 12:30
baest jt_: < jnthn> There will be a Win32 installer for this available in about 3 hours.
pmichaud I'll fix it in my tweet :-)
masak ok, Twitter is going wild.
I can't keep up scrolling.
BinGOs "HURD is an experimental project set to prove that one can in fact work on a software for thirty years with changing teams and still produce nothing usable."
(sic)
a quote I saw this morning.
cognominal if I had been more attentive, I would have added to the announce that more and more of Perl 6 is written in Perl 6, which is a good sign. 12:31
masak there should be a unit for the stuff that's used up when crying wolf. we just used up a couple of tens of %s :)
mathw hugs everyone
Su-Shee and mailed it to all collegues.... 12:32
ouin i made 30 minutes of unexplained countdown in $work irc, including lots of camelia flapping around ...
12:32 smash_ joined
smash_ hello everyone 12:32
masak ouin++ 12:33
smash_! \\o/
smash_ pmichaud++,everyone++ # rakudo star
Su-Shee ouin: oh god.. ;)
mathw I like this one from last night 12:34
twitter.com/freekey/status/19752653473
timbunce avar: I didn't see one on reddit so I added one myself. Then I saw yours (identical) but looking at www.reddit.com/r/perl/new/?sort=new I only see mine. Maybe they merged them. Ho hum.
Su-Shee luckily, installation fits perfectly into one tweet ;)
mathw Su-Shee: I saw that, very neat
frettled I didn't mention flapping cameliae, but I did announce it in another IRC channel, share the release announcement in Google Reader, and publish my first blog post in months. At least a handful of people are bound to notice! 12:35
mathw I just told a bunch of supremely uninterested people
What a waste of electrons
Su-Shee mathw: well you forfilled your duty.. :)
avar timbunce: no, mine is still there: www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen...y_adopter/
mathw Su-Shee: true 12:36
told some people at work too
but I don't think I'll make a global announcement
they're unlikely to care
avar timbunce: you submitted to /perl, I to /programming
mathw I'll just bounce it around my online social life
12:36 envi^home joined
timbunce avar: ah, ok. 12:36
frettled
.oO( LinkedIn! )
 12:37
Su-Shee mathw: well we are a perl company.. ;)
mathw lucky you 12:38
we're a Java company which was forced to use C++ as well
fortunately they eventually hired some C++ people
like me
mathw is waiting to hear the FUD about Rakudo Star appear 12:39
frettled There, added a post to the LinkedIn Perl group.
timbunce This shows both reddit announcements: www.reddit.com/r/programming/duplic...y_adopter/ feel free to up vote them :)
daxim I went to vienna.js yesterday to tell them about today's release, but it wasn't quite the right audience 12:40
frettled Orkut, hmm, does anyone use that anymore?
pmichaud I can't see the comments to www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/cv1l...kudo_star/ for some reason. :-|
mathw :( someone downvoted it
frettled: yes, it's very popular in Brazil
Su-Shee moritz_: it's on heise now.
masak I'm torn as to what to title the Slashdot submission.
pmichaud too bad. I was going to write a note.
tadzik mathw: haybe this HIUOBO, or what's his nick anyway
moritz_ Su-Shee++
timbunce It's interesting that www.google.com/trends?q=perl6 doesn't show interest from USA (and only San Francisco gets a mention as a city) 12:41
masak I want something between "Perl 6 released!!!" and "Rakudo Star - a useful, usable, "early adopter" distribution of Perl 6"
Su-Shee moritz_: well it's on the same page with a GNU hurd article.. ;)
moritz_ Su-Shee: where?
Su-Shee moritz_: "heise open"
12:41 sahadev joined
moritz_ ah 12:41
mathw masak: I'd go for the latter
masak: you have to be careful on Slashdot
moritz_ www.heise.de/open/artikel/Perl-6-Ja...47299.html
masak ok.
moritz_ for the record
Guest19034 72 downloads
mathw because they will not read it
they will just dive in and start commenting based on the headline 12:42
masak mathw: limit seems to be 40 chars :/
moritz_ much like reddit :-)
Guest19034 Oops - 75 now
cognominal timbunce, in Google trends, I note that Paris does better than the bloody londoners.
12:42 azert0x joined
masak 'Rakudo Star - "early adopter" Perl 6, released' ? 12:42
dolmen_ timbunce: more interesting: www.google.com/trends?q="perl+6"
Su-Shee masak: good. nice, short, says everything. 12:43
masak \\o/
avar Does rakudo actually require libreadline5-dev like the install file says, or is libreadline6-dev also OK?
moritz_ masak++
pmichaud avar: libreadlin6-dev might work. Let me know so I can update the install instructions if it works :)
snarkyboojum someone going to get it on perlbuzz?
avar tries 12:44
pmichaud I'm sure alester++ will get it there relatively soon
dolmen_ cognominal: we are two parisians here just now. How many londoners? 12:45
snarkyboojum awsome 12:46
frettled Has anyone alerted El Reg (www.theregister.co.uk)?
Su-Shee can't we have the github bot post the download count every hour? :)
molecules Congratulations on releasing Rakudo Star! pmichaud++,rakudo_star_team++ 12:47
mathw I'm sure El Reg can misreport the release quite happily by themselves
BinGOs heh
Su-Shee mathw: and yet plenty of people read it and will try it anyway. ;)
timbunce dolmen_: I used to be a londoner, does that count ;) 12:48
mathw Su-Shee: true, true
twitter.com/octoberequus/status/19822760081 <- awesome tweet!
daxim avar, pmichaud, I have readline-devel-6.1, not v5 and it builds fine 12:49
moritz_ lol
pmichaud daxim: excellent
moritz_ daxim: and does the arrow-up key work for you on the REPL?
pmichaud I'll update the relevant docs
mathw apparently Rakudo is now condensationware
Su-Shee it's what? 12:50
masak submission's away -- slashdot.org/submission/1294860/Rak...6-released
don't know if you can view that URL.
Guest19034 Not vapourware anymore
Su-Shee ah :)
masak Guest19034: man, it's been "not vapourware anymore" since 2005!
mathw masak: yes, we know that, but it's nice to see other people know that 12:51
masak indeed.
Guest19034 masak: Just trying to interpret here!!
masak :)
I also alluded to the vapour in the /. submission.
pmichaud Su-Shee: where's your tweet ... haven't seen it yet 12:52
avar having a "make install" target and and install/ dir does naughty things to bash completion:)
pmichaud (need to add you to my following list)
masak pmichaud: @sheeshee
Su-Shee twitter.com/sheeshee
someone had already taken su-shee and sushee...
masak people with Slashdot accounts, feel free to + slashdot.org/submission/1294860/Rak...6-released :) 12:53
daxim moritz_, yes the key works, and the usual readline stuff
moritz_ daxim: great
Su-Shee he forgot #butterflies ;)
pmichaud masak++
awesome slashdot post 12:54
12:54 bphillips joined
[Coke] (backscroll) speaking of parrot packages, it'd be great if someone took up the macports packaging of parrot. ;) 12:54
12:55 da joined, ouin left
snarkyboojum masak++ # have up voted the slashdot post :) 12:55
masak \\o/
Su-Shee well well and the downloads are counting..
dolmen_ cognominal: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakudo
mathw nice slashdot post 12:57
I'm trying to remember my slashdot login so I can upvote
dolmen_ masak++ # Slashdot submission
[Coke] (lolcat for cover of book) I can proffer a picture of my 3 legged cat. "Perl6 ate my paw!"
cognominal dolmen_, we have a lot of work to update francophone wikipedia Perl 6 entry 12:58
jnthn [Coke]: Pawesome!
masak jnthn++ # :)
dolmen_ masak: voted! 12:59
darkop shomodj++
shomodj \\o/
darkop all++ (great job, great release, great book to read :)
szbalint masak++ # upvoted /. post too 13:00
masak \\o/
let's make the Slashdot front page!
mathw upvoted slashdot 13:01
frettled masak: wow, you have a 7-digit user ID? I thought they were on 6 digits :)
masak I realized I didn't have an account.
so I needed to create one. 13:02
bphillips direct link to slashdot article?
masak slashdot.org/submission/1294860/Rak...6-released
PerlJam happy christmas everybody!
mathw I wouldn't call it Christmas yet
masak it's not... oh heck, Merry Christmas!
it isn't, technically. 13:03
darkop PerlJam: I was whistling JingleBells the whole morning, now I know why
masak we need macros, and Pod, and speed, and stability...
Christmas will be a gradual thing.
snarkyboojum Happy Starry Night
mathw sings "Christmas is interesting / Like a stick in your eye / It's so freakin' interesting / That it might make you cry"
darkop everyday is christmas now that we have perl6
mathw It may not be Christmas, but there are decorations in the shops :) 13:04
brian_ should the REPL work out of the box by running ./perl6?
daxim yes
PerlJam masak: it's a really long, slow christmas :)
dolmen_ masak: I added some tags to your /. post
masak dolmen_: thanks. 13:06
"Perl 6 IS OUT THERE !!!" -- ruoso++ 13:07
"#Rakudo * is out and is stable as a rock. Moves as a rock too, but hey." -- erez++
kokajxo (I wrote www.siteduzero.com/news-62-37174-p1...rrive.html ) 13:08
frettled kokajxo++
umphy thanks guys for all your hard work. much appreciated. good night from Melbourne Aus :)
masak umphy: g'♞ :)
moritz_ kokajxo: wow. My French is pretty bad, but I can see the amount of work that went into that post nonetheless 13:09
kokajxo++
kokajxo my English is awful, but I would like to thank you all for Rakudo
frettled masak: are all melbournians good horseys?
brian_ gah, I haven't got libreadline6-dev installed 13:10
kokajxo I don't use Perl, rather Python or OCaml, but Perl 6 just looks awesome
pmichaud "Rakudo Etoile" sounds nice too. :-)
masak kokajxo: pro via uzantnomo, mi suspektas ke vi pli bone regas la Internacian Lingvon :P
PerlJam kokajxo++ wow.
moritz_ brian_: rakudo will compile without it, you just won't have history in the interactive environment
13:10 azawawi joined
jferrero Happy Christmas, and good Rakudo new year 13:10
patrickas whoa kokajxo++ indeed! 13:11
kokajxo masak: ja, sed mi ankaux parlas gxin malbone :p
avar pmichaud: the readline-6 lib also works for me
pmichaud kokajxo: that article is marvelous.
avar++
PerlJam kokajxo: btw, you know we're going to quote you about "Perl 6 just looks awesome", right? ;)
pmichaud kokajxo: you hit exactly the right tone.
masak kokajxo: mi almenaŭ komprenas vin :)
pmichaud (except we're not necessarily the "successor" to Perl 5 :)
alexm pmichaud: confirmed that readline6 works also, still failing Unicode from the terminal though 13:12
kokajxo PerlJam: is that wrong :-° ?
PerlJam kokajxo: no way!
pmichaud alexm: yes, I played with that last night, and it appears to be some Parrot weirdness.
I'll submit it as a parrot bug.
it's weird, too, because... 13:13
avar bug: paste.scsys.co.uk/47280
masak guests &
azawawi Found the bug that prevented blizkost from running on strawberry 5.10... patching... :)
dolmen_ kokajxo++ # Merci ! Excellent article !
avar i.e. it shouldn't proceed past the -Dusethreads..
mathw azawawi++
alexm avar: did you install libperl-dev?
pmichaud pmichaud@plum:~/rakudo$ ./perl6
> say "«".chars
2
> say (prompt ': ').chars
: «
1
[Coke] updated wikipedia's Rakudo entry a bit. 13:14
pmichaud i.e., reading from standard input works properly, but reading through the interactive readline gets it wrong
avar alexm: yeah, I just have a perl without -Dusethreads, rebuilding
pmichaud (correct answer is 1, of course)
mathw pmichaud: interesting 13:15
alexm avar: blizkost-install worked fine for me in ubuntu with libperl-dev
mathw pmichaud: something wrong with the use of readline maybe?
avar yeah, rebuilding with the ubuntu perl, I was using a perlbrew perl
pmichaud mathw: I'm thinking that parrot's readline code doesn't consider utf8 as a possibility
mathw pmichaud: sounds very plausible
frettled > say "•".chars
3
mathw !
cognominal kokajxo++ # when do you create Nantes.pm ? 13:16
frettled pmichaud: it definitely seems like a basic assumption about 8-bit chars, yes
avar and nobody ran into this with all the crazy utf8 operators?:)
pmichaud how many crazy utf8 operators are there? ;-)
frettled avar: most of the testing is done with program files, not line-interactive, I suppose
rakudo: say "•".chars
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤» 13:17
moritz_ avar: it's a known bug, and afair in RT
frettled avar: ^^^
avar ah
pmichaud twitter.com/fs111/status/19823910405 # nice 13:18
dolmen_ kokajxo: it would be worth linking it on linuxfr.org
mathw pmichaud: hah 13:19
pmichaud: although Duke Nukem Forever wsas cancelled in the end
kokajxo dolmen_: do it then :p 13:20
dolmen_ kokajxo: I don't have my account available right now
alexm gotta go preparing this afternoon's R* presentation for Barcelona.pm 13:21
13:21 xinming joined
alexm see you #perl6 13:21
13:21 alexm left
azawawi strawberry 5.10 blizkost fix github.com/azawawi/blizkost/commit/...d319902cce 13:22
kokajxo dolmen_: ok, what should I do ?
13:22 dwhipp joined
dolmen_ kokajxo: linuxfr.org/submit.html 13:23
Su-Shee frettled: how does this little dot count as three chars.. ;) 13:24
PerlJam gabszab++ for such good timing on the Perl 6 screencasts :)
azawawi PerlJam: szabgab++ :) 13:26
PerlJam yeah that
itz thanks for it!
PerlJam wonder why my brain flipped it.
avar who maintains the rakudo smolder infrastructure?
PerlJam probably because I was thinking (Gabor Szabo)++ 13:27
frettled Su-Shee: small dot, huge ego?
moritz_ avar: iirc mj41 has control of the server
Su-Shee frettled: *hehe* :) 13:28
13:29 zulon joined
cognominal digg.com/d31YO92 13:29
azawawi parrot seems to have a problem with strawberry 5.12.x. "loadlib" opcode fails so blizkost will only run on 5.10.x win32 atm :( 13:30
masak oh! forgot about digg! cognominal++
frettled cognominal++, dugg. 13:31
pmichaud frettled: that dot has three times as much character as any ascii symbol :-)
frettled Do we have a page or something where we keep track of places to publish news like this?
pmichaud: ho-ho :D 13:32
13:32 vboele joined
frettled pmichaud: perhaps it's a triple-quantum dot 13:33
13:33 xinming_ joined
pmichaud frettled: it's definitely not a singularity :) 13:33
avar frettled: gist.github.com/498136 13:34
dolmen_ kokajxo: posted your article to my del.icio.us network (mostly Perl guys) delicious.com/url/737f03d52d8728bda...b547a42f88
kokajxo thanks :)
masak @pfig doesn't like "usable". twitter.com/pfig/status/19824600688
13:34 plobsing joined
moritz_ masak: maybe ask him which part hes doesn't find usable 13:35
[particle] pmichaud: i can't modify the R* announcement at rakudo.org, but i wanted to generate a more exciting url than rakudo.org/node/75, perhaps announce/rakudo-star/2010-07 ?
masak moritz_: :)
moritz_: actually, I just replied this: twitter.com/carlmasak/status/19826085112
avar [particle]: not without a redirect.. 13:36
Su-Shee moritz_: heise is going to put it into the newsticker.
moritz_ Su-Shee: \\o/
pmichaud [particle]: looking
masak moritz_: I think his complaint isn't that "usable" is a lie, but that it's perhaps a bit weak, as descriptions go.
avar Are there any other social media submissions: gist.github.com/498136 ?
[particle] it's drupal, we should be able to coax it to do that
moritz_ avar: I stand corrected, it was jdv79++ how submitted the smolder patches for rakudo (and likely controls the infrastructure) 13:37
Su-Shee moritz_: www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Rak...47670.html
moritz_ avar: perlmonks (not strictly social media, but good for perl news anyway)
masak & again
PerlJam avar: perlbuzz (echochamber, yes but still) 13:38
frettled avar: added a few more as a comment
pmichaud avar: you could put it on the rakudo wiki or the star wiki
frettled Of course, I failed on reloading.
13:39 crazed joined
crazed happy perl6 release day! 13:39
well rakudo star
avar frettled: do you have more specific links ?:)
frettled: It's linking to stuff that's already submitted, not just the sites themselves
frettled avar: ah, I was thinking of a list of sites to submit _to_ for the next round of news. 13:40
pmichaud [particle]: rakudo.org/announce/rakudo-star/2010.07 now works
crazed rakudo.org/node/75
[particle] pmichaud++ # would you give me rights to do that?
crazed i got linked there 13:41
sjn has spammed all the Perl channels in Norway (that I know of) with the annoucement o/
crazed which is less pretty of a url
PerlJam Su-Shee: you're right ... google translate sucks. :)
Su-Shee PerlJam: I'm sorry :)
perigrin sjn: so you know 'pvv.org' didn't work ... 'www.pvv.org' did ... for whatever reason 13:42
PerlJam but "Perl 6 ist da" sounds like the beginning of a song though ;) 13:43
pmichaud [particle]: rakudo.org's drupal has been spammed heavily with user registrations ... so finding your account is a bit tricky
Su-Shee moritz_: hey, the first comment says "endlich" and "*freu*" :)
13:43 coutume1 joined
[particle] i just logged in with openid 13:43
PerlJam (perhaps a nursery rhyme ;)
[particle] let me give you a url
moritz_ Su-Shee: \\o/
Su-Shee PerlJam: it is kind-of.
[particle] rakudo.org/user/9
sjn perigrin: isn't there a redirect?
perigrin sjn: not that google chrome liked
Su-Shee moritz_: the bashing will surely start soon. ;)
perigrin I got a "cannot find" page with pvv.org
pmichaud [particle]: you now have admin access 13:44
avar moritz_: ah, found 2c40a5bc9ffe585e84516f252adba4a5565e0175
[particle] pmichaud++ # thanks!
frettled avar: updated the comment now with links to stuff that's out there. My submissions are in fora that require login, though, and are labeled as such.
perigrin sjn: skitch.com/perigrin/dqsuq/fullscreen # screen shot from chrome 13:45
sjn perigrin: gah
perigrin shrugs
it doesn't really matter, I found htem :)
but I thought you should know 13:46
PerlJam So ... I was thinking of adding Gabor's screencasts to perl6.org under Community. Specifically linking to szabgab.com/perl6.html Any comments? Is there a better link?
pmichaud time for a nap here -- bbl
PerlJam: +1 13:47
PerlJam pmichaud: that link is not just about the screencasts, but it's the only place I've found that lists them all.
sjn perigrin: I'm looking into it now :)
perigrin sjn++
moritz_ PerlJam: +1 13:48
PerlJam: if you want to link to the screencasts, there's an anchor on that page 13:49
szabgab.com/perl6.html#screencasts or so
darkop a little easter egg on our site: www.oglasnik.hr/R*
Su-Shee moritz_: and lichtkind obviously wrote for heise developer.. :)) www.heise.de/developer/artikel/Raku...15657.html
lichtkind Su-Shee: that topic wasnt my idea :) 13:50
PerlJam patiently waits for the other shoe to drop after all of this publicity ;)
moritz_ And I wrote www.perl-community.de/bat/blog/theme/8
jferrero www.meneame.net/story/rakudo-star-a...a-29-julio
PerlJam concludes that Rakudo is a big hit in germany 13:51
:-)
13:51 lrnperl6 joined
Su-Shee lichtkind: let me put it this way: more full blown support and marketing for a _programming language release_ isn't possible within the german realm. 13:51
lichtkind :)
Su-Shee PerlJam: heise is quite immune against hypes, they don't publish ruby fanboy article. also, they're pragmatics. and about our age and therefore grown up with perl. ;) 13:52
dolmen_ avar: French delicious.com/url/737f03d52d8728bda...b547a42f88
cono rakudo: say 1 ~| 2 13:54
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«3␤»
cono rakudo: say 7 ~| 13
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«73␤»
13:55 rhebus_ joined 13:56 patspam joined
Su-Shee ah. and here we go... "why perl if you can have python" man I hope I don't have to answer comments. ;) 13:56
13:56 willtestit joined 13:57 LaVolta joined
szabgab Congratulations and thank you for the release of Rakudo * 13:57
PerlJam: Later today I can create a separate page for just the screencasts if you think it is better
moritz_ Su-Shee: "why python if you can have perl?" :-)
szabgab: don't think it's necessary 13:58
szabgab and I'll leave a section with the id and alink to that page
13:58 HarryS joined
Su-Shee moritz_: that was to be expected.. ;) 13:58
szabgab moritz_: I'll do that at one point ayway but I don't have that computer with me now :) 13:59
PerlJam szabgab: no worries. It's fine the way it is :)
szabgab ok, then I leave it that way for now 14:00
just add a few more screencasts in the next few days, I hope
PerlJam szabgab++
LaVolta just passing by to say thanks, thank all you folks! for rakudo star! :) 14:01
moritz_ :-)
bbkr std: sub d--b{}
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed block at /tmp/8zbnADKe9L line 1:␤------> [32msub d[33m⏏[31m--b{}[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ new name to be defined␤ routine_def␤ trait␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
PerlJam moritz_: how can I can view the page locally with all of the styling and everything? I want to make sure I don't screw up the layout accidentally.
bbkr std: sub d-_-b{}
p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 114m␤»
avar why doesn't the blizkost-install target depend on the install target? 14:02
moritz_ PerlJam: don't bother, just go ahead :-)
14:02 kjeldahl joined
tadzik Su-Shee: they always come 14:02
PerlJam moritz_: wfm :)
14:02 perimosocordiae joined
frettled 188 nicks. Nice. 14:02
Su-Shee tadzik: I usally strictly avoid reading comments. :) 14:03
pugssvn r31858 | duff++ | Add link to screencasts
Su-Shee they went from python to "real programming languages" to "all stolen from PHP" (wtf?) to ruby.. ;) 14:05
14:05 xiaolongxia joined
tadzik Su-Shee: I always thought Ruby's used by people who couldn't wait for Perl 6 ;) 14:05
14:05 macroron joined
Su-Shee uhm, did noone blog it on blogs.perl.org? :) 14:07
tadzik is the Perl 6 Book attached to Star available separately? 14:08
is it the same as github.com/perl6/book?
PerlJam tadzik: it is the same
[Coke] Su-Shee: doing a simple "see also" post there now. 14:09
LaVolta I got the "cp: illegal option -- u" problem on osx while make VERSION, is that expected?
14:09 Casan joined
moritz_ hopes not 14:10
14:10 ruoso joined
LaVolta IMHO, might be a linux-flavoured cp(1) 14:10
frettled LaVolta: u option? wtf? Hmm.
PerlJam GNU cp at least
frettled Oh ye flippin' deities. 14:11
That's a piece of feature bloat I didn't think I'd see in GNU cp, but I suppose it's years old, and I just haven't noticed.
PerlJam LaVolta: does osx have an option for "copy only if source is newer than destination" ? 14:12
frettled PerlJam: -n
PerlJam frettled: that's "don't overwrite an existing file" not quite the same. 14:13
frettled PerlJam: and I guess the question should be, "does BSD have"
PerlJam: it's the closest you get with cp
PerlJam: for all else, there is rsync
PerlJam does osx come with rsync?
frettled yes
[Coke] Su-Shee: done. 14:14
14:14 Kodi joined
PerlJam How do Windows folks handle unixisms like cp? 14:14
Su-Shee *hehe* a friend of mine on twitter: "perl wins: perl 6 released before php 6" :)
14:14 jer1cho joined
Kodi rakudo: sub f($a is copy = 1) { my $b; ($a, $b) = (1, 2); say $a; }; f 14:14
PerlJam one of these days I'll have to try to install parrot/rakudo on a windows box
frettled PerlJam: by crying a lot
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
Kodi rakudo: sub f($a is copy = 0) { my $b; ($a, $b) = (1, 2); say $a; }; f
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1 2␤» 14:15
jer1cho hello folks
Kodi Known?
frettled PerlJam: do you know which piece of code it is that uses cp -u?
LaVolta I wonder if it's okay to ignore the -u option...
frettled It seems to me that the Right Way to handle it, is to use make…
moritz_ Kodi: don't think so
LaVolta: it probably is
LaVolta cp -auv skel $(DISTDIR) 14:16
frettled The only consequence of dropping that option ought to be that you're copying one time too many.
That doesn't seem like a biggy to me.
Kodi moritz_: Okay, I'll file a rakudobug.
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frettled Hrm, "find . -name skel" yields no result in either Rakudo or Rakudo Star. 14:18
PerlJam LaVolta: are you building r* from tarball? 14:19
snarkyboojum rakudo star download numbers have already beaten the most downloaded monthly build
moritz_ phenny: tell pmichaud that there's no tag for R* in the star repo - should be 6641ff4df7c39031c916b23e706963e599bf5a82
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
[Coke] skel is in star's /source/ not the tarball.
frettled snarkyboojum: nice!
moritz_ PerlJam: it's in the star repo
LaVolta PerlJam: oh...my my my...I git cloned it
PerlJam yes, it's only present in the star repo, but that's not the dist
LaVolta sorry...all my fault
moritz_ LaVolta: that way you can build a tarball that you can then install like R*
Su-Shee snarkyboojum: it only gets downloaded a couple of hundred times per month? 14:20
moritz_ 350 downloads so far
Su-Shee moritz_: 15 total morons so far.
14:20 pmurias joined
moritz_ Su-Shee: that's surprisingly low 14:20
frettled Su-Shee: how many of the morons are the same person? :) 14:21
snarkyboojum Su-Shee: well according to the github download numbers - given that most are git cloning the working tree for the monthly releases (I'd guess)
Su-Shee *HAHA* ok, you'll get that without knowing german: the first idiot posted the usal "perl line noise" posting to support "python is better": www.heise.de/open/news/foren/S-Re-W...6184/read/ answer: 14:22
14:22 etaoin joined
Su-Shee www.heise.de/open/news/foren/S-Re-W...6234/read/ (".. write this greatly readable python code.." :) 14:22
frooh congratulations guys!
frooh downloads star 14:23
PerlJam Su-Shee: heh
Su-Shee I need a screenshot of this.
etaoin Playing with the Rakudo * MSI on XP and going through the included book. Very cool. Great Job everyone!
14:23 tylercurtis joined
moritz_ bows 14:23
LaVolta ..."tarball's good, git-clonin's bad" :-P 14:24
jer1cho just built rakudo from a git clone, looks good so far. the performance is poor, though.
moritz_ nods
etaoin In the UsingPerl6-draft.pdf page 6 the same line 27 needs more {} for interpolation to work on Rakudo * 14:26
say "$n has won {%matches{$n}} matches and {%sets{$n}} sets";
PerlJam jer1cho: yes, it's slow. That's on the list of things to work on next though. 14:27
etaoin: what?
dolmen_ rakudo: for <a b c> { say * }
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Whatever()<0x8369780>␤Whatever()<0x8857a60>␤Whatever()<0x240f000>␤»
etaoin I am using the Rakudo * MSI and goifn through the UsingPerl6-draft, the sample code on page 6 doesn't interpolate without extra {} chars 14:28
jer1cho PerlJam: Any hints where to start helping? What do I need to know to help developing?
moritz_ rakudo: my %matches = a => 1, b => 2; my $n = 'a'; say "$n has won %matches{$n} matches"
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a has won 1 matches␤»
moritz_ etaoin: seems to work here - see above
PerlJam etaoin: What R* MSI ? Where did you get it?
(I didn't know there was an MSI)
14:29 squeeky joined
etaoin a link was given earlier this morning let me find it 14:29
frettled PerlJam: I think jnthn++ was going to get one out the door within a few hours of the R* release.
patrickas I think there was one built on one of the betas
PerlJam etaoin: the only thing I can think of is that the MSI is actually installing an older version of Rakudo instead of the one that comes with Rakudo *
moritz_ uhm, that would be a quite old release 14:30
PerlJam indeed
etaoin www.jnthn.net/perl6/rakudo/Rakudo-S...010-07.msi
PerlJam well, I think 2 months would do it.
frettled jer1cho: Do you want to help with Rakudo itself, modules, Perl 6 spectests, documentation, …?
moritz_ etaoin: could you please paste the output from say $VM<config><revision> ? 14:31
patrickas That one was posted by jnthn++ based on beta4 I think
moritz_ sorry
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moritz_ say $*VM<config><revision> 14:31
and
perl6 --version
[Coke] rakudo: say $*VM.perl
snarkyboojum yeah.. around beta4ish
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Cannot substr on a null string␤ in 'Pair::perl' at line 1␤ in <anon> at line 4591:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::join' at line 1␤ in 'EnumMap::perl' at line 4591:CORE.setting␤ in 'Pair::perl' at line 4353:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 4591:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::join' at line
..1␤ …
[particle] pmichaud: i don't see a LICENSE file in the rakudo/star repo
frettled rakudo: say $*VM<config><revision>.perl 14:32
jer1cho frettled: Well, where can I help best with my knowledge in C++, a bit of C and perl? :)
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«"48152"␤»
[particle] i'm assuming artistic 2, like rakudo
[Coke] jer1cho: that almost sounds like a better fit for the parrot VM.
moritz_ [particle]: yes, just copy the LICENSE file from Rakudo
[particle] ah, sorry, found it in skel/
14:32 whee_ joined
etaoin C:\\Rakudo>perl6 -e "say $VM<config><revision>" Symbol '$VM' not predeclared in <anonymous> in Main (src\\gen_setting.pm:3343) C:\\Rakudo>perl6 -v This is Rakudo Perl 6. Copyright 2006-2009, The Perl Foundation. C:\\Rakudo> 14:32
[Coke] (make that better, rakudo gets better.)
moritz_ etaoin: that's an old rakudo. 14:33
[Coke] etaoin: it's $*VM, not $VM.
[particle] is writing an email to a reporter at h-online
frettled jer1cho: Just about with anything! IMO, documentation is something that needs more serious work, and I know people want better spectests. Both give a boost to learning, of course.
jer1cho [Coke]: I'll take a lot at parrot too :)
[Coke] cd 14:34
ww.
moritz_ jer1cho: also most built-ins are written in Perl 6 - look through bug reports that involve built-in functions and methods, those are usually easier to fix
jer1cho frettled: Okay, thanks. :)
PerlJam jer1cho: if you're going to help with speed, knowing C and Parrot would be good :)
rhebus hmm, any chance of a .msi which works on a D:\\ drive? My winxp box has no C:\\ and the installer bails immediately
jer1cho moritz_: I think i'll break in there first, thanks!
frettled jer1cho: And please stick around here, we really like having people like you joining in. 14:35
LaVolta errr...another error (from tarball)..."-lpthread -lm \\c i686-apple-darwin10-g++-4.2.1: c: No such file or directory"
jer1cho frettled: Of course. :) 14:36
frettled jer1cho++ 14:37
LaVolta seems familiar to me...it happened once or twice when I was trying to build rakudo releases
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PerlJam LaVolta: it pulls config information from parrot to generate the makefile. Perhaps look through "parrot_config --dump" 14:38
[particle] ah, h-online beat me to it! great. 14:39
14:40 patspam joined
LaVolta PerlJam: it's in LINKARGS and ICU_SHARED (makefile), when build failed, I usually remove them... 14:41
etaoin the timestamp on the file says 2am today but I will go build it on debian and play with it some more 14:42
snarkyboojum heh twitter.com/chwenz/status/19828498801
14:43 whee joined, dimitry joined
avar news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1557623 14:43
jdv79 i think i just killed my "could server" while building rakudo
Su-Shee snarkyboojum: cool. another one mention it. :) 14:44
jdv79 is there any way to do ipc with rakudo?
jer1cho jdv79: I dont think so... Haven't even heard about threads yet.
jdv79 system and `` and open 'date|' don't seem to work
tadzik jdv79: it's now qx//, not `` 14:45
jdv79 oops
tadzik I just noticed the 'make' sub in Advent Calendar, what is it?
jdv79 thanks
moritz_ tadzik: it sets $/.ast 14:46
... as explained in the book too. Read it! :-)
dimitry rakudo: say slurp "/etc/passwd"
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤ in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/4qAWUfGFtc␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/4qAWUfGFtc␤»
dimitry doesn't work :)
[Coke] moritz_++ for safe mode. 14:47
14:47 [1]Casan joined
dimitry but how to switch safe mode programmatically? 14:47
switch off i mean 14:48
14:48 etaoin left
moritz_ dimitry: you don't. That's the point :-) 14:48
PerlJam tadzik: chapter 10 of the book btw.
[Coke] dimitry: shouldn't be enabled by default on your local copy, though.
tadzik PerlJam: yeah, I'll have to read it sentence by sentence one day.
masak someone might want to reply to www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/cv1q...ly/c0vh9tf
moritz_ replies 14:49
tadzik done
squeeky Would it be considered cliché of me to bang on about "Christmas in July" at this point in time?
[Coke] \\o/ our first bug report post-star.
PerlJam squeeky: completely.
squeeky: but don't let that stop you! :) 14:50
[Coke] oh, it's kodi. =-)
Kodi [Coke]: Yep.
squeeky Where's the source to the eval bot, just out of curiosity?
moritz_ squeeky: pugs repo, misc/evalbot/
dimitry is there any docs on safe mode? 14:52
moritz_ no; it's so hacky and unsafe that I don't want to promote it in any way
squeeky moritz_: thanks. err, I was silly enough to think "hey, why not port a web prontend to the bot". I guess it's a bigger mountain than I thought. 14:53
14:53 high joined, zulon joined
dimitry rakudo: say `ps axu` 14:53
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say `ps ax"␤»
jer1cho squeeky: if you chroot it in a vm and you use the save mode, why not? ;)
moritz_ squeeky: github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.org
squeeky: feel free to contribute 14:54
squeeky: do you have github ID?
14:54 sawyer_ joined
squeeky I certainly do. 14:54
moritz_ which is... squeeky?
squeeky squeeks.
moritz_ hugme: add squeeks to try.rakudo.org
hugme hugs squeeks. Welcome to try.rakudo.org!
moritz_ squeeky: you now have commit access to that repo
squeeky :O
avar anyone else having smolder issues: gist.github.com/498316 ? 14:55
curl -v -v -v -L smolder.plusthree.com/
snarkyboojum avar: yep - I've never been able to connect to that host
avar hrm, can't submit smoke reports then
dolmen_ rakudo: :16<1F692>.chr.say 14:57
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«????␤»
snarkyboojum avar: I'm not sure how it's supposed to work, but I get 'Communication prohibited by filter' when I ping the host 14:58
avar yeah, not like that :) 14:59
frettled dimitry: `` won't work anyway.
[Coke] snarkyboojum: sounds like you might have a firewall in your way.
frettled rakudo: say qx/ps ax/ 15:00
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤ in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/VddG306aqo␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/VddG306aqo␤»
snarkyboojum [Coke]: right - I have no idea how to go about addressing that though :)
frettled dimitry: but locally:
> say qx/ps ax|head -1/; PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
snarkyboojum anyway, it's a dodgey network setting somewhere :) 15:01
baest wow the book looks great! Thumbs up
snarkyboojum and I get to 70.42.41.97, so it's somewhere on their network (I think) 15:02
15:02 skyheights joined 15:05 snarkyboojum_ joined
skyheights Congratulations #perl6++, I joined slashdot and digg to bump you up. I look forward to taking Rakudo Star for a spin tonight! 15:05
frettled skyheights++ 15:06
[Coke] AGGGGGGGGGGGGGH. how did alberto post to perl6-internals?
isn't that list dead dead dead? =-)
colomon harmonyware.com/tunes/r-star.pdf 15:07
moritz_ very much so
PerlJam colomon: I can look at the notes but I don't know what they sound like :) 15:08
davidfetter rakudo, say "Hello"
hrm
rakudo: say "Hello"
timdemkowsky davidfetter: do it like this
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
davidfetter ok
snarkyboojum colomon: :O care to sing it for us? :D
timdemkowsky got it by yourself. :)
[Coke] colomon: I'll get my son to record it on trombone. :P 15:09
colomon PerlJam: will try to record it at some point today. but since I forgot to write it a month ahead of time like I planned, any recording made today may be a little bit rough.
[Coke] harmonyware.com/tunes/r-star.pdf
ww.
PerlJam colomon++
15:09 isBEKaml joined
isBEKaml Good Starry evening, #perl6! :) 15:09
snarkyboojum isBEKaml: o/ 15:10
15:10 achromic joined
[Coke] I find it odd that ovid and alberto (old school p5 people) are not reporting bugs in the requested fashion. =-) 15:10
isBEKaml snarkyboojum: Release went down well?
snarkyboojum isBEKaml: I think so!
daxim [Coke], it says DucksRevenge.abc 15:11
isBEKaml great! More Stars! \\o/
15:11 _macdaddy joined
PerlJam hangs a reproduction of "Starry Night" in for foyer 15:12
s/for/the/
15:13 Lasse_ joined, justatheory joined
LaVolta test, rakudo: say qx/uname -a/ 15:14
rakudo: say qx/uname -a/
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤ in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/KC52tc3vX2␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/KC52tc3vX2␤»
PerlJam LaVolta: you can't use run() or qx() with the bot
colomon daxim: wait, where did the DucksRevenge.abc thing come from? (that's my local file for storing tunes, named after the first tune in it.) 15:15
daxim it's in the window title
colomon ah, I see. it's the title of the PS.
postscript, I mean.
interesting. 15:16
daxim using okular 0.10.4
colomon Preview on the Mac doesn't show me that at all.
[Coke] daxim; ?
moritz_ hey, it's only a preview :-)
[Coke] ah. 15:17
15:17 envi_home2 joined
daxim [Coke], I didn't notice you were reposting colomon 15:17
timdemkowsky Has somebody information about the implementation status of IO::Socket?
[Coke] yah, we're all caught up now. =-)
moritz_ timdemkowsky: it's good enough to run a simple HTTP server with it 15:18
15:18 pyrimidine joined
moritz_ timdemkowsky: it only does blocking IO though 15:18
(any improvements would be welcome)
timdemkowsky moritz_: Thanks, any examples? :) Just saw the of src/core/IO/Socket.pm, looked like... nothing much. :D I need to work into the code. 15:20
15:20 envi_home3 joined
LaVolta PerlJam: sorry my irc screen's a little out-of-time. 15:20
moritz_ timdemkowsky: github.com/mberends/http-server-simple 15:21
timdemkowsky moritz_: Thanks a lot! 15:22
moritz_ timdemkowsky: the author of http-server-simple, mberends, sometimes hangs out here - he also plans to work on a poll() implementation for the sockets 15:23
tadzik nopaste.snit.ch/22426
repl bug?
15:23 chaotos2010 joined
patrickas is kind of confused ... where is the lynch mob and the hate fest? 15:23
moritz_ I'm sure he'd appreciate some feedback, or somebody to bounce ideas off him
timdemkowsky moritz_: Sounds interesting, but i've never worked on that, just used these mechanisms sometimes.
moritz_ patrickas: the trolls are too slow :-)
whee patrickas: they're still waiting for the interpreter to start up ;) 15:24
moritz_ timdemkowsky: never too late to start - though it's your choice of course
patrickas: there were some trollish replies to some of the German news posts
tadzik rakudo: Hash.^methods.join("\\n") # bug?
patrickas whee: in that case we should make rakudo a bit slower yet =) 15:25
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Method 'join' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/zavJIb5Ago␤»
tadzik looks like Parrot leaking through, as you say
timdemkowsky moritz_: i look around for interesting things to fix or implement. i gonna do my best!
moritz_ timdemkowsky++
dakkar rakudo: 12.isa(Int) 15:27
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: ( no output )
patrickas moritz_ I guess more people would be interrested in helping right after the release and it could be a good window of opportunity for the weekly challenges
dakkar rakudo: say 12.isa(Int)
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
dakkar rakudo: say 12.isa(Num)
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«0␤»
dakkar ???
colomon Ints are not Nums.
dakkar uhm
colomon rakudo: say 12.isa(Real)
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«0␤» 15:28
colomon rakudo: say 12 ~~ Real
moritz_ patrickas: indeed - but I've run out of ideas :(
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon rakudo: say 12 ~~ Int
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon rakudo: say 12 ~~ Num
dakkar so what is a Num?
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«0␤»
PerlJam also ...
moritz_ dakkar: a floating-point number
PerlJam rakudo: 12.does(Num) 15:29
CSJewell heard about the .msi earlier - the Padre people would like me to make one, but I seem to have heard something about R* having problems building on Strawberry 5.12 32-bit?
moritz_ rakudo: say 1.2e0 ~~ Num
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: ( no output )
rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
PerlJam rakudo: 12.does(Real)
colomon rakudo: say 12 ~~ Numeric
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: ( no output )
rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
dakkar ah! it's a representation
15:29 pheuter joined
moritz_ Int, Num, Rat are classes, Numeric, Real are roles 15:29
dakkar so I want sub foo(Numeric $a) 15:30
tadzik rakudo: Hash.^methods.join("\\n") # what about this one?
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Method 'join' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/zA2X_nHYmI␤»
colomon dakkar: or sub foo(Real $a) if you don't want to allow Complex numbers
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dakkar colomon: now I get it :) 15:30
PerlJam CSJewell: dunno. azawawi was working on strawberry issues earlier though.
moritz_ tadzik: it's because Hash is a role in Rakudo... which is wrong-ish, I think
jnthn back home 15:31
ShadeHawk Does Perl 6 implementation have support for zlib compression (Compress::Zlib, PerlIO::gzip)?
tadzik ShadeHawk: not yet. You can use them from Blizkost though
or write something for Perl 6 :)
moritz_ nope.. though I've heard that there's a parrot implementation, which would make it quite easy to use it from Rakudo
CSJewell I'll talk to him then.
tadzik even better
squeeky so err, what's the difference, or what's happening with CPAN6 and modules.perl6.org?
whee moritz_: what's the point of the challenges? to improve rakudo directly or just get people writing perl 6 code (to improve it indirectly)
tadzik moritz_: btw, mind adding my modules to proto? 15:32
moritz_ whee: both. All challenges so far have either lead to rakudo patches, or to improvements in the infrastructure
tadzik: go right ahead - you have commit access to proto, right?
pheuter hello
tadzik moritz_: no :)
moritz_ hugme: add tadzik to proto 15:33
hugme hugs tadzik. Welcome to proto!
PerlJam squeeky: modules.perl6.org is our stopgap until we figure out how to do CPAN6
15:33 njd left
tadzik hugme: hug moritz_ 15:33
hugme hugs moritz_
moritz_ tadzik: don't lie to me :-)
tadzik moritz_: add Acme::Meow for Ofun? :)
moritz_ tadzik: sure!
moritz_ -> out
PerlJam squeeky: maybe modules.perl6.org becomes CPAN6. We don't quite know yet.
ShadeHawk moritz_: commit access? what's that, centralized version control system? ;-))) 15:34
squeeky ah. okay. is anyone planning some BOFing that topic at yapc::eu?
PerlJam squeeky: there has also been some talk from p5p people about making the existing CPAN accomodate Perl 6, but I don't know where that's going
patrickas moritz_: how about we pick some small usefull/interesting module on cpan and ask for porters ? it would be easy cause starting from scratch and people would be able to run while doing it?
snarkyboojum squeeky: if you're referring to cpan6.org/, I don't think anyone really knows much about it
pheuter Is there any *updated* documentation available on using parrot with perl6/rakudo 15:35
PerlJam cpan6.org suffers from too much "good idea" and not enough "fait accompli" :)
squeeky XML schema, good idea? questionable. 15:36
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PerlJam pheuter: using parrot how? What do you want to do? 15:37
pheuter PerlJam: write a compiler
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pheuter for a language, like Squeek 15:38
squeeky Squeak.
pheuter but the documentation is pretty outdated on writing Squeek
Squeak*
lol
squeeky would know ;)
davidfetter squak? 15:39
PerlJam yeah, there's squaak 15:40
tadzik moritz_: why are there different projects.list for proto and pls branches?
PerlJam but it comes at it from a Parrot, PCT, NQP perspective
pheuter PerlJam: as opposed to which other perspective?
PerlJam pheuter: Perl6 + Parroty bits
I guess it's largely the same as NQP is a subset of Perl 6 15:41
davidfetter moritz_, i'm a little baffled by how &infix:<,> turns a parrot array into a perl6 array
pheuter PerlJam: Ah, where can i get docs on that
davidfetter any clues as to why that would be?
15:41 Ross joined
PerlJam pheuter: github.com/ekiru/squaak-tutorial 15:42
pheuter: but talk to tylercurtis when you see him around here. 15:43
pheuter thnx
LaVolta finally got rid of the '\\c' problem on osx 15:45
rakudo-star-2010.07/parrot-2.6.0/config/auto/icu.pm
change the original line to $icushared =~ s/\\s+\\\\c\\s?$//; 15:46
then it will be okay to build now
15:47 snarkyboojum_ joined
patrickas LaVolta what's the OSX issue about ? 15:47
LaVolta patrickas: you type 'perl configure.pl --gen-parrot', then it complains the 'c' not found 15:48
PerlJam pheuter: there was an errant \\c in the makefile apparently
er, patrickas 15:49
LaVolta and parrot folks seems already noticed that problem
15:49 aharoni joined
LaVolta there's a comment line documented the problem 15:49
patrickas oh ok ... should a new tgz be built for osx ? 15:50
LaVolta patrickas: I guess it would be good :-P
it's all about the icu... 15:51
tylercurtis pheuter: The Squaak tutorial at docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/...orial.html is up-to-date now, actually.
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pheuter tylercurtis: with perl6? 15:53
tylercurtis: I've looked at it about 2-3 weeks ago, and someone told me it is outdated as I was unable to follow it exactly without errors 15:54
PerlJam pheuter: See perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/2...d-actions/ also 15:57
Su-Shee damn. I forgot the perl advent stuff. 15:58
PerlJam pheuter: and chapter 10 of the Perl 6 Book
tylercurtis pheuter: I updated it last week. :) It uses PCT and NQP-rx, rather than Perl 6. I don't think people are attempting to write many compilers in Perl 6 itself yet.
pheuter PerlJam: where can i find the Perl 6 Book ?
PerlJam pheuter: in the R* dist under docs/UsingPerl6-draft.pdf
pheuter tylercurtis: awesome! So, following that guide i should be able to write a compiler for Squaak using perl6 ? 15:59
PerlJam: thnx
tylercurtis pheuter: Perl 6? no. Not Quite Perl 6? Yes. 16:00
pheuter tylercurtis: right, i mean parrot's variant
whee which synopsis document do "binary objects" fall under?
[Coke] pheuter: tylercurtis++ has the most up to date version of that, fixed just before the parrot 2.6.0 release; please let him (or trac.parrot.org) know if you have any troubles with that documentation. 16:01
jnthn whee: S09 describes at least some of it.
pheuter [Coke]: yep, thanks a lot! 16:02
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isBEKaml why does the Channel msg still show R* beta8 download link? 16:04
squeeky the channel is -t yknow. 16:05
[Coke] whoops, typo in url in my blogs.perl.org entry, fixed, thanks to kind samaritan.
tylercurtis pheuter: Unfortunately, it doesn't cover some things (OO and namespaces, for example), but it does provide enough to make a fairly useful language. I plan to write docs to cover the things it doesn't, but I probably won't get around to that until sometime late next month at soonest. 16:06
moderator »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is ourfriend! | Rakudo Star Released! 16:07
moderator »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Su-Shee *haha* "#Rakudo * is out and is stable as a rock. Moves as a rock too, but hey." 16:08
itz can I list class or object methods by using a method?
tadzik :)
PerlJam itz: $obj.^methods 16:09
rakudo: 5.^methods.join(" ").say
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«sin Int Bridge to-radians abs acosech acotan ln ceiling cotanh unpolar Real atan acos Rat tanh atanh cosec Num perl WHICH roots isNaN tan from-radians log10 cos pred acosec sinh asinh Numeric cosech reals Str asec acotanh floor sech ACCEPTS asech rand truncate round sqrt asin
..Bool …
itz tnx
PerlJam rakudo: Hash.^methods.join(" ").say
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Method 'join' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/5pLV69bbyO␤» 16:10
[Coke] www.perl.com/pub/2010/07/welcome-ra...-star.html
16:10 timbunce joined
aharoni [Coke], hallo! Did you see my comment on rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display...l?id=64032 ? 16:11
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timdemkowsky We need Perl 6 on Android. :D 16:15
isBEKaml :D
Su-Shee I couldn't agree more.
isBEKaml heck, we need it on the JVM first. :) 16:16
Su-Shee shiny 550 downloads.
timdemkowsky I think somebody wrote an scripting environment for Android, ill look after it when im back home. 16:17
Maybe somebody here wants to start a port ;) parrot on android would be great i guess 16:18
moritz_ somebody wrote in a completly unrelated IRC channel that he installed R* on the computers of the local university computer room
computer science department, and he's an admin there :-)
PerlJam (that guy)++
moritz_ indeed :-) 16:19
whee timdemkowsky: sl4a; code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ There is perl 5 support in it at the moment
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timdemkowsky moritz_: Nice :) 16:19
pmurias perlito has a python backend so it should be possible to run Perl 6 code on symbian
Su-Shee moritz_: that's how linux spread in berlin. ;) some university admin installed it ;)
pugssvn r31859 | pmurias++ | [mildew] ignore use v6-mildew 16:20
timdemkowsky whee: yup, that thing was what i thought of.
whee timdemkowsky: the funny decision is whether or not you want to target parrot and have that target the jvm :)
Su-Shee moritz_: AND SEE WHERE IT IS TODAY! ;)
moritz_ Su-Shee: on both of my computers. Like Rakudo :-)
tylercurtis thinks someone who posts on Reddit should mention Zavolaj or IO::Prompter as examples of Perl 6's unique awesomeness.
Su-Shee moritz_: and paying our rent. and serving the internet. ;) 16:21
pugssvn r31860 | pmurias++ | [STD] prefix LazyMap and Actions with an STD:: prefix
Su-Shee it would be nice if some wrote a zavolaj idiot's tutorial.
jnthn whee: Not really - you'd want the whole stack on one VM. Since there's things like eval and so forth.
LaVolta good night guys, sleep tight :)
timdemkowsky whee: i will not do that, java is not a friend of mine :p
whee jnthn: so you'd want parrot to target the native hardware? 16:22
jnthn whee: No
[Coke] I submiterated us to boingboing. 16:23
isBEKaml whee: what jnthn meant is, he'd target the JVM directly instead of an interplay between VMs.
jnthn whee: You'd not involve Parrot at all.
whee oh, sure
Su-Shee [Coke]: you're aiming for a perl 6 meme? ;)
timdemkowsky Su-Shee: like 'knock knock' 'who is there?' *long pause* 'r*' ;) 16:24
Su-Shee *HIHIHIHI* :) 16:25
isBEKaml Su-Shee: like what? boingboing's like the source of all Internet memes? ;)
moritz_ :-)
Su-Shee isBEKaml: well a little it is :)
timdemkowsky But thats more a 'joke' than a meme...
jnthn Oh, so that is how is meme formed.
jnthn tries out the Windows MSI for R*
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isBEKaml tries modifying the slackbuild to package R* for Slackware. 16:26
Su-Shee isBEKaml: OHA. Shiny!
isBEKaml: are you submitting it for slackbuilds.org? 16:27
isBEKaml Su-Shee: I already have a slackbuild script out. I have to test it first. :)
pugssvn r31861 | pmurias++ | [smop] add missing files
Su-Shee isBEKaml: now I can die happy. a slackware package for perl 6. ;)
isBEKaml Su-Shee: github.com/svatsan/RakudoStar-SlackBuilds.git 16:28
Su-Shee: It currently doesn't work quite right. You have to download parrot and rakudo separately, then run the individual slackbuilds.
I'm looking to make it play well with R* source. 16:29
Su-Shee watches.
.oO(two niches on one computer.. ;)
isBEKaml :) 16:30
PerlJam jnthn: someone earlier said that the rakudo in the MSI wouldn't do "%hash{$key}" interpolation.
Su-Shee hey, slackware is the other totally old fashioned, underestimated, doesnt-get-love-anymore project ;) 16:31
moritz_ judging from the feedback it seemed to be a pretty old rakudo
isBEKaml Su-Shee: oh, no. You're very wrong. Just hit ##slackware. you'll know. :)
squeeky The fbsd port of rakudo could also use an update, that's nearly a month old now.
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jnthn PerlJam: huh? 16:32
PerlJam: Which MSI?
PerlJam jnthn: apparently one you put together. Is there another?
moritz_ jnthn: see irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-07-29#i_2631861 16:33
PerlJam moritz_: although ... we don't know if he had an earlier version of rakudo around that he was accidentally using instead of the one that came with R* 16:34
jnthn moritz_: huh, that's...confusing. :-)
moritz_: It works in the latest one I just built, anyway. 16:35
moritz_ jnthn: yeah, the --version output shows that he is running a rather old rakudo
Date: Mon Jul 5 03:39:22 2010 -0500
Refactor $*IN, $*OUT, $*ERR. Add $*PERL. Add --version option.
jnthn Oddness! 16:36
moritz_ the --version output was from before that
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Su-Shee isBEKaml: I know, I read linuxquestions.org sometimes and the slackware subforum is one large happy place.. they got essentially the same level of user satisfaction as perl does in questionaires. 16:36
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PerlJam is there an equivalent to "which perl6" on windows? 16:37
does the MSI add the install dir to the PATH? 16:38
jnthn PerlJam: No
PerlJam: But it does associated .p6 files with Rakudo.
*associate
isBEKaml PerlJam: quit cmd and use PowerShell! ;)
moritz_ btw I did some quick statistics on the IRC logs: 120 distinct nicks today, <90 on the last two days each
[Coke] (if there are any boingboing readers here, feel free to upvote. =-) 16:39
isBEKaml Su-Shee: I do visit the linuxquestions.org subform occasionally and the satisfaction levels are pretty high, partly due to what Slack offers. ;) 16:40
_slack_ ;)
moritz_ enough euphoria - let's get back to hacking 16:41
Su-Shee isBEKaml: I started with slack and went back after a few years of everything else. they all annoyed me and so I went back to slack. and stayed there. :)
isBEKaml moritz_: just like the morning coffee. :)
Su-Shee: I thought you'd be more with Suse. ;)
btw, I started with ubuntu and settled on slack after sampling everything else for a week to month each. :) 16:42
Su-Shee isBEKaml: I had Suse quite some time, yes. but then they just had to switch to sysV init. and make everything shiny. 16:43
dalek kudo: d65e73b | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
bump PARROT_REVISION to get some nqp-rx fixes
kudo: da16b58 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
use less code to check for allowed s/// adverbs
16:44 brian joined
isBEKaml Su-Shee: Ah, I agree with you there. Shiny doesn't always mean right. 16:45
jnthn OK, here is an MSI for Rakudo Star. Not perfect, no doubt, but gives you a working Perl 6, the modules, the book/cheatsheet and shortcut to perl6.org too, plus .p6 file association. www.jnthn.net/perl6/rakudo/Rakudo-S...010-07.msi
If anyone knows a good place to link it from, feel free to do so. :-) 16:46
PerlJam jnthn: upload it to R*'s download dir. that's linked all over the place
16:46 etaoin_ joined 16:48 stimpi joined
stimpi hi guys 16:48
thank you for the rakudo star release
etaoin_ jnthn: my bad I had installed strawberry perl with padre and it had a perl6 in the path info. R* works just dandy now that I fixed the path. thanks for the MSI btw makes it easy to play on my netbook at work :)
PerlJam wow 585 downloads so far 16:49
stimpi i am trying to build this on a linux machine, but i am getting the following error
jnthn etaoin_: Oh, phew! :-)
etaoin_: I thought something was really messed up. ;-)
stimpi gcc -o miniparrot src/main.o src/null_config.o \\ -Wl,-rpath=/home/josed/r2/rakudo-star-2010.07/parrot-2.6.0/blib/lib -L/home/josed/r2/rakudo-star-2010.07/parrot-2.6.0/blib/lib -lparrot -lresolv -lnsl -ldl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lpthread -lrt -Wl,-E src/main.o(.text+0xcf): In function `main': src/main.c:126: undefined reference to `allocate_interpreter'
any ideas?
PerlJam stimpi: do you have another parrot installed? 16:50
stimpi no
timdemkowsky stimpi: where did you get the source from?
stimpi from github, rakudo star release tar ball
16:50 high joined
[Coke] what version of gcc? 16:50
PerlJam jnthn: if you want, I'll add that MSI to the downloads area for R*
stimpi gcc 3.4.6 16:51
patrickas stimpi: linux destro ?
stimpi rhel 4.5.2
on a 64bit machine
moritz_ stimpi: my first attempt would be to try a non-ancient gcc :-)
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stimpi i dont have enough privileges to install a later version of gcc on this machine....will give that a try later from my home pc 16:52
PerlJam moritz_: rhel only has ancient gccs ;-)
[Coke] (that function is defined in src/interp/interp_create.c and seems to be marked with PARROT_EXPORT. wonder if that's not expanding properly on that version of gcc) 16:53
moritz_ come on, even Debian stable has a 5.3.2
s/5/4/
jnthn PerlJam: Just uploading it now 16:54
PerlJam: I suddenly realized I'd done a Debug build, not a Relesae one. :-)
(Of the installer.)
And watned to check the Release one would work (it does).
It's uploaded. \\o/ 16:56
PerlJam++ # suggesting to put it there
patrickas stimpi : There will be ninary releases pretty soon ... at worst you 'll be able to install that
stimpi cool - will wait for the binaries...
moritz_ patrickas: at worst it won't install on such an ancient system
PerlJam and I'm thinking that's the most likely scenario 16:57
patrickas at worst an asteroid will hit earth before he has a chance to try it :-)
stimpi ;-) will try jnth's msi installer too...
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[Coke] jnthn: the cheatsheet is kind of ugly, but otherwise, all good. =-) 16:59
jnthn++
16:59 NEwork joined
moritz_ rakudo: $_ = 'a'; my $x = m/./; say $x.WHAT 17:00
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Regex()␤»
moritz_ that's wrong
iirc m// always matches immediately, only // is "magic"
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pheuter what is the purpose of "use v6 17:02
PerlJam stimpi: btw, mention to whoever admins that box that they really should upgrade. :) 17:03
moritz_ pheuter: declare that it's perl 6 you write, and getting much better error messages when you accidentally run it with perl 5
17:03 Kiran joined
moritz_ (which I've done quite often :) 17:03
pheuter moritz_: ah
PerlJam for some reason I've done that many times today 17:04
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Su-Shee shiny. over 600 downloads. 17:13
17:13 etaoin left
lue hooray-o \\o/ (er, hello o/) 17:14
jnthn Wow, already 10 of the Windows MSI too
o/ lue 17:15
Su-Shee it's nice to see in threads and forums that obviously some people really waited for perl 6.
[Coke] jnthn: well, one of those is me, I don't count. =-) 17:16
Su-Shee "so now is the time to confess that I did 300 of the downloads.." ? ;)
17:16 jer1cho joined
jer1cho so, back at home 17:16
[Coke] that nick looks enough like timtowtdi that I had to double check. 17:17
timdemkowsky haha 17:19
lue checks slashdot to see if R* is there :) 17:21
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[particle] parrot.org had 4,406 visits the day parrot 2.0 was released, rakudo.org already has 4,216 visits today 17:25
etaoin Su-Shee: I have been an avid lurker for many years, many of us are probably like me excited by occupied. fortunately I just finished a big project last night that gave me an excuse to play with R* today. happy me :D all of us out in lurker land give you our love!
17:25 abra joined
PerlJam [particle]: rakudo is sexier 17:25
[particle] that's no lie. 17:26
17:26 disturbedmime left
[Coke] TT #1720 fixed (fdiv op) 17:26
etaoin by=but -- it was a long night
Su-Shee etaoin: I'll have to use "avid lurker" right at the next opportunity :) 17:28
etaoin i was watching the thread here all night for the publish of R* -- i feel like the fans who stand in line for the next harry potter book. you have perl6 groupies ;D 17:29
Su-Shee etaoin: I'm one too. I'm planning to make a shirt "rakudo starlet" ;) 17:30
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Su-Shee *sniff* "I think I'm falling for perl all over again <3" (hackernews) 17:34
[Coke] ahahaha. "Perl can now compete with Java for slow startup." parrot says you're welcome. :P 17:35
PerlJam heh 17:36
jnthn We'll get there.
Oh, wait!
:-)
isBEKaml Su-Shee: I could submit the slackbuilds for parrot and rakudo separately to slackbuilds.org right now. What I'm doing here is mainly for R* with a few changes in place. :)
PerlJam jnthn: when do you find out about your grant application?
jnthn PerlJam: Not sure.
lue I am very tempted right now to submit news of R* to slashdot...
isBEKaml [Coke]: heh. I think it's unwise comparing perl6 to early JVMs. :|
jnthn lue: It's already been submitted, fwiw
Su-Shee isBEKaml: please do so.
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Su-Shee lue: it's on reddit, hackernews, slashdot and the other one I forgot. 17:37
jnthn PerlJam: Pm submitted one before me and didn't get an answer yet either though, so I'm not even at the front of the queue yet. ;-)
Su-Shee digg!
[Coke] lwn had a post.
see gabor's wiki page collecting press links.
isBEKaml somebody should do it on del.icio.us :)
[particle] most rakudo.org referrals are from reddit, over 1k
PerlJam isBEKaml: been done
Su-Shee [Coke]: url?
isBEKaml PerlJam: great!
lue No it wasn't. I can't find it.
[particle] i sent a mail to the editor-in-chief at sd times 17:38
maybe we'll get a story from them
PerlJam I wonder if we could get a shout-out from merlyn on FLOSS Weekly.
(although I have no idea what the lead time is on those) 17:39
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lue [particle]: did you use the Submit a Story link? 17:39
Su-Shee has someone an ars technica contact or whatever is needed there? I'd like to see it on more not totally geekrelated pages which are read by web developers. 17:40
[particle] lue: i didn't see one, i sent an email.
etaoin hashtags.org/perl6 R* is getting out on twitter a bit too 17:42
[particle] Dan Magnuszewski is the Public Relations lead at TPF, he might have contacts at ars
lue Ah. .oO(maybe if a bunch of people submit the news, it will get published)
[Coke] Su-Shee: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....star_press
ah, dan was the guy who pointed out my links on blogs.p.o were wrong. =-) 17:43
Magnuszewski++
Su-Shee ahaem. I had like 30 rakudos compiled and run perfectly at the given level - and _now_ I get "invalid charset number -98"? what does that mean?
[Coke] that sounds like a parrot complaining about a string charset.
17:43 aCiD2 joined
Su-Shee it does. what do I have to do? 17:44
aCiD2 Hi folks, having my first play with perl6 at last. Just curious how featureful attributes are, coming from a moose background. For example, do concepts such as required attributes, builders, or predicates exist?
I see no mention of any of them in the spec
not even types for attributes, in fact, but I may have overlooked that
[particle] required attributes work with 'has $.some-attribute = die {...};' 17:45
PerlJam aCiD2: perl6 does have a type system that you can use with attributes.
[particle] i'm not sure if we got 'is required' in there yet
aCiD2 [particle]: Ah, I did try is required but that didn't seem to make any difference
PerlJam: I was aware of the type system, which is why I was surprised to see no mention of it
if "is required" is the way it should work, maybe that can be my first patch :) 17:46
PerlJam aCiD2++ 17:47
aharoni I ran perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot on Cygwin. Parrot was downloaded and compiled successfully, but the actual Rakudo Configure.pl died at line 119, complaining that it can't find cygparrot2_6_0.dll.
[Coke] bah, cygwin?
whoop,s you said that. =-) 17:48
aCiD2 PerlJam: I'm tyring "has Str $.name" which to me seems like how typing would work, am I wrong there? Because it is still allowing me to set name to 5 (name => 5). Perhaps a coercion?
aharoni pastebin.com/4V2eWZaw
[Coke] aharoni: there is a ticket open about something like that. moment...
17:48 dual joined
aharoni [Coke]: yes, i opened it 17:48
it's probably something very simple
17:48 pugssvn joined
jnthn -> dinner, bbl 17:49
aharoni cygparrot2_6_0.dll does exist in ./parrot/cygparrot2_6_0.dll
[Coke] rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=64032
ok. so you know the workaround. :(
aharoni i think that it's a different problem now 17:50
moritz_ lwn.net/Articles/397892/ wow, only positive comments sofar
lue :O
17:50 jaldhar_ joined
[Coke] aharoni: right, but in the ticket, you copied the dll into /rakudo's/ dir, ja? 17:50
PerlJam aCiD2: Hmm. perhaps it's just broken. Have you checked the RT bug queue? 17:51
aharoni oh, wait, the workaround does work
Su-Shee pastebin.org/428221 <- I get that on any perl6 call.
aCiD2 PerlJam: nope, I just jumped right in :) I'll have a look to see if I can find some tests to help me and check the bug queue too
moritz_ Su-Shee: did you have any parrots or rakudos installed before?
Su-Shee moritz_: err.. I lost count. yes. 17:52
moritz_: I'll go clean up.
moritz_ Su-Shee: it looks like an interaction with an old .pbc or .pir file
isBEKaml Su-Shee: too bad you're not using removepkg. ;)
Su-Shee isBEKaml: *cough* indeed.
isBEKaml Su-Shee: or that's locally built and not site-wide?
Su-Shee rakudo is spread all over. ;) 17:53
isBEKaml Su-Shee: (without looking at pastebin) you can try cleaning up ~/.perl6/lib folder first.
Su-Shee why? there's my local stuff like fakedbi and my own modules in..
moritz_ Su-Shee: because rakudo looks there fore modules, unconditionally :( 17:54
Su-Shee: and when it finds outdated .pir files, it starts cryiing
isBEKaml Su-Shee: what moritz_++ said.
Su-Shee ahaem. ok. I removed 12 rakudo trees. 17:56
moritz_ and now your disk usage has dropped 30% :-)
17:56 acrussell joined
Su-Shee that's nothing. I had three Gnomes once. ;) 17:57
moritz_ oh.
isBEKaml blech.
Su-Shee yeah well I suffer for open source. ;)
moritz_ broke s:g/// locally. Meh. 17:58
ah. Because I can't type. Interesting. 17:59
PerlJam the twitterverse is certainly atwitter about R* 18:00
Su-Shee PerlJam: well releases are our version of gossip :)
PerlJam: my favorite is still the "perl wins: perl 6 released before php 6" 18:01
patch is Q:lang { ... } currently supported for Parrot langs other than PIR?
PerlJam Well, it seems to have unpopped the cork of "Perl 6 release" (even though it's not substantially different from the Rakudo release a week ago)
18:02 patspam1 joined
lue
.oO(Hrm, R* is currently in the ./ 'firehose')
 18:03
abra howdy!
Su-Shee PerlJam: it's very cute sometimes - "I think I'll fall for Perl again" :)
lue * /.
Su-Shee ah. now my stuff is clean.
abra whare I can find vim syntax file for perl6?
Su-Shee abra: in github (sec) but it's rather slow.
abra: github.com/hinrik/vim-perl 18:04
abra Su-Shee, tnx
PerlJam abra: you can also use Padre (padre.perlide.org) for your editor. It handles Perl6 syntax highlighting too 18:05
abra PerlJam, Ouh! tnx! I'll try it 18:07
isBEKaml why was DESTDIR removed from rakudo's make install?
I remember seeing that this morning. this would break linux distro builds.
pheuter github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/blo...fuck.p6.pl doesn't seem to work 18:08
isBEKaml pheuter: IIRC, perl6-examples is pretty old. Some of those examples need fixing in order to work with current Rakudo implementation specifics. 18:09
PerlJam isBEKaml: you mean R* ?
isBEKaml PerlJam: yes.
pheuter what is R* 18:10
isBEKaml Rakudo *
pheuter ah
:P
is there a subst ?
[Coke] "Maybe tomorrow the hell will freeze."
isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = "foo"; $x.subst(/o/, "u", :g); 18:11
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: ( no output )
isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = "foo"; say $x.subst(/o/, "u", :g);
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«fuu␤» 18:12
isBEKaml pheuter: ^^
pheuter thnx
what does :g mean?
isBEKaml same as what s///g does in p5. 18:13
[Coke] global.
(everywhere, not just the once)
pheuter thnx
skyheights Downloaded the .msi, installed and launched the REPL -> "Hello, World!" No hitches or glitches, just awesomeness. jnthn++
pheuter what did .= signify? How would one do it in R* ? 18:14
[Coke] just had a japanese friend ask what the (&*#4 was up with the name. =-)
patch rakudo: my $x = 'foo'; say Q:PIR { %r = find_lex '$x' } 18:15
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«foo␤»
[particle] whee! inline pir! :) 18:16
[Coke] rakudo: Q:PIR { say "Isn't that cheating?" }
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Isn't that cheating?␤»
[Coke] news.perlfoundation.org/2010/07/rak...sable.html 18:17
Karen++
tylercurtis pheuter: In Perl 5, "$a .= 'foo';" is the same as "$a = $a . 'foo'", which sets $a to $a with 'foo' concatenated to it. In Perl 6, you can do that with ~=.
patch rakudo: Q:ecmascript { print('test'); } 18:18
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Colons may not be used to delimit quoting constructs at line 22, near ":ecmascrip"␤»
[Coke] Albany.pm meeting coincidentally on R*Day.
[particle] that's a less than awesome error
pheuter rakudo: my $x = "n is 5"; $x ~= subst(/(\\w+) is (\\w+)/,{'$0 = $1'}, :g); say $x
lue tylercurtis: I didn't know ~= was a part of P6.
[Coke] (sadly, it's me and one other guy.)
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &subst␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/htekAwrT8s␤» 18:19
tylercurtis lue: why not? It's the = meta-op.
pheuter: in Perl 6, "$a .= foo()" is the same as "$a = $a.foo()", which sets $a to the result of calling the foo method on $a.
isBEKaml rakudo: Q:fooLang { print("foobar"); }
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Colons may not be used to delimit quoting constructs at line 22, near ":fooLang {"␤»
isBEKaml # I think the error' sthe same.
as the one in ecmascript. LTA.
pheuter rakudo: my $x = "n is 5"; $x = x.subst(/(\\w+) is (\\w+)/,{'$0 = $1'}, :g); say $x 18:20
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &x␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/YyvcJzFFq7␤»
pheuter rakudo: my $x = "n is 5"; $x = $x.subst(/(\\w+) is (\\w+)/,{'$0 = $1'}, :g); say $x
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«n is 5␤»
pheuter hm, i was expecting n = 5
[particle] yes, Q:<unrecognized-modifier> spits out a poor error
timdemkowsky is there a native lwp? 18:21
moritz_ pheuter: $/ and thus $0 isn't set in the closure yet
pheuter: but it's passed in as first argument, so you can use $_[0] instead of $0 for now
tylercurtis pheuter: also, you want double quotes to interpolate.
pheuter rakudo: my $x = "n is 5"; $x = $x.subst(/(\\w+) is (\\w+)/,{"$[0] = $[1]"}, :g); say $x
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«n is 5␤»
pheuter hmmm 18:22
avar Is there a howto on using Blizkost somewhere?
tylercurtis rakudo: say ?('5' ~~ /\\w+/)
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
patch rakudo: my $x = 'foo'; say Q:PIR { $S0 = find_lex '$x'; %r = $S0 } 18:25
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The opcode 'find_lex_s_sc' (find_lex<2>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments␤»
pheuter rakudo: "x is 5".subst(/(\\w+) \\s* is \\s* (\\w+)/,{ "my \\$$[0] = $[1]" }, :g)
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: ( no output )
pheuter rakudo: say "x is 5".subst(/(\\w+) \\s* is \\s* (\\w+)/,{ "my \\$$[0] = $[1]" }, :g)
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«my $Any() = Any()␤»
PerlJam avar: once you compile+install blizkost, the perl6 binary you built as part of R* will allow you to do things like use CGI:from<perl5>; and eval('print "hi\\n"', :lang<perl5>); 18:26
avar: see the examples in modules/blizkost/examples/* for a tad more 18:27
avar ah, use $mod :from<perl5>; failed 18:29
tylercurtis avar: really? use Data::Dumper:from<perl5>; worked for me.
avar I mean "use Data::Dumper :from<perl5>;" 18:30
18:30 pugssvn joined
tylercurtis Ah, indeed. 18:30
PerlJam avar: "Data::Dumper:from<perl5>" note the lack of space. 18:31
Or is that what you're saying?
avar yes, I know. Just saying the version with space does the wrong thing with no error message
PerlJam ah
okay
timdemkowsky rakudo: "Foobar".perl(); 18:32
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: ( no output )
18:32 gesh joined
timdemkowsky meh :p 18:32
tylercurtis rakudo: say "Foobar".perl(); #timdemkowsky, like so. 18:33
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«"Foobar"␤»
[particle] iow don't forget 'say' or 'print' if you want output :) 18:34
tylercurtis timdemkowsky: the evalbot doesn't autoprint.
aCiD2 Is there a "first" method for @arrays?
[particle] the evalbot is not a repl
18:34 xabbu42 joined
aCiD2 I tried looking at the pir code and couldn't see anything 18:34
maybe i'm looking in the wrong place though :)
timdemkowsky tylercurtis: ah, thanks! :)
pheuter If i installed rakudo* from the github tarball, where can i find tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl for parrot?
[particle] rakudo: say $_ for Array.^methods 18:35
whee rakudo: say { say "foo" }.perl()
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:
..OUTPUT«new␤splice␤perl␤delete␤at_pos␤new␤iterator␤Bool␤pop␤perl␤Capture␤of␤elems␤Str␤unshift␤batch␤ACCEPTS␤hash␤eager␤flat␤rotate␤Num␤munch␤list␤shift␤map␤push␤exists␤at_pos␤fmt␤sort␤Int␤list␤item␤Num␤elems␤fmt␤Str␤chop␤rindex␤tanh␤subst␤Numeric␤chomp␤index␤IO␤chr␤acotanh␤trim-trailing␤fr…
rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
PerlJam rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,9,4,3,5,6,7); say @a.first(* > 5); # :-)
18:35 tjyang_ joined
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«9␤» 18:35
aCiD2 ohhh, you don't use first {}
[particle] pheuter: under parrot/install iirc 18:36
aCiD2 I was getting all perl 5y with first { $_ eq 'foo' }
PerlJam avar: sure you do ...
rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,9,4,3,5,6,7); say @a.first: { $_ > 5 };
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«9␤»
pheuter [particle]: yes, thanks!
colomon or
rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,9,4,3,5,6,7); say @a.first({ $_ > 5 });
p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«9␤»
PerlJam er, s/avar/aCiD2/ earlier
colomon basically, * > 5 is a shortcut that let's you skip the {} 18:37
tylercurtis pheuter: $INSTALLPREFIX/lib/tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl, also.
aCiD2 PerlJam: Ah, I must have been missing that : which caused a syntax error
pheuter tylercurtis: [particle], ===SORRY!=== Obsolete pod format, please use =begin/=end instead near "head1 NAME" when executing
tylercurtis pheuter: how are you running it? 18:38
pheuter the way it says docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/...1.pod.html
[particle] something's looking for pod 6 instead of pod 5 18:39
timdemkowsky does somebody know a good native argument parser?
tylercurtis pheuter: are you sure you're not accidentally typing perl6 instead of perl?
colomon jnthn++ # now have working Rakudo on my Windows box for the first time ever....
tylercurtis timdemkowsky: command-line arguments? 18:40
pheuter tylercurtis: i am typing perl6, isn't that what we should use now?
timdemkowsky tylercurtis: yep
tylercurtis pheuter: that's a Perl 5 script.
timdemkowsky tylercurtis: if there isnt something around, i gonna write one by myself and put it on github
pheuter tylercurtis: k
tylercurtis timdemkowsky: just use a MAIN sub perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#Declarin...subroutine
tjyang_ Hi, there. I installed rakudo-start.2010.07.msi. Please excuse this beginner question. so can rakudo perl 6 compiler turn perl6 script into exe file on win32 ? 18:42
PerlJam tjyang_: not yet
timdemkowsky tylercurtis: wow. thats great. 18:43
tjyang_ perlJam: thanks for the answer. "not yet" is better than NO :)
Su-Shee hm. 100 downloads per hour. :) 18:44
tjyang_ PerlJam: so I can expect when Perl 6 is done, I can see my perl 6 script got compiled into .exe and Unix executable, correct ?
PerlJam tjyang_: when/if someone champions the cause to make that happen. Remember, we're all volunteers who work on the things that we find interesting. IF no one finds that interesting, it may not happen. 18:45
pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6 18:46
phenny pmichaud: 14:19Z <moritz_> tell pmichaud that there's no tag for R* in the star repo - should be 6641ff4df7c39031c916b23e706963e599bf5a82
lue hello pmichaud o/
pmichaud Is Perl 6 dead yet?
PerlJam pmichaud: check the number of downloads.
timdemkowsky hey pmichaud! you did great work with rakudo! :)
pmichaud timdemkowsky: thanks. We owe a lot to the whole team. 18:47
18:47 kjeldahl_ joined
tjyang_ PerlJam: understood. thanks for the volunteer work. I appreciated that. where is the URL I can see the compiler effort ? 18:47
PerlJam pmichaud: there have been 2 more downloads since I said "check the number of downloads" :)
tjyang_ I download it because I saw the wording of "compiler 18:48
" :)
timdemkowsky pmichaud: is there any possibility to donate some money? through flattr, maybe?
PerlJam tjyang_: Hmm. Just because you don't get an exe out of it doesn't mean it's not a compiler :)
pmichaud timdemkowsky: I have a paypal account :-) flattr would work too. 18:49
basically, if you want to donate money, we can find ways to receive it.
[particle] there is also donate.perlfoundation.org/
pmichaud and TPF would always appreciate don.... right
timdemkowsky pmichaud: flattr would be great. let me know how to flattr rakudo! ;)
pmichaud PerlJam: github says "Downloads (2)" :-P 18:50
[particle] and parrot.org/donate :)
PerlJam pmichaud: silly! :-P
tjyang_ PerlJam: thanks for the correction. I am hoping to see perl6 can compile script into exe. if there is a team working on that direction. I am willing to donate money for that purpose. 18:51
cxreg strange that /. didnt post it yet
moritz_ cxreg: sometimes they have quite long delays
tjyang_ perlJam: "donate mony" = a few hounded US bucks.
moritz_ pmichaud: should m// bind or assign to $/ ? 18:52
lue it's in the firehose. masak and acid06 have submitted the news.
Su-Shee isn't this the slashdot posting? slashdot.org/recent (nr 12)
pmichaud moritz_: I'm still thinking about that one a bit. iirc, neither timtoady nor I were entirely certain what the answer should be.
[particle] tjyang_: the parrot virtual machine is what would be used to compile a rakudo perl script into an executable
PerlJam tjyang_: consider making a targettted donation to TPF
moritz_ pmichaud: thing is, I'm trying to implement m:g// now, which also turns m// into an immediate call (as the spec says), so I have to handle it some way 18:53
tjyang_ PerlJam: I will check out the targeted donation in TPF.
[Coke] (targetted) non-targetted are used for misc. grants (including perl 6!)
moritz_ I'm doing an assign now, and see what the spectests say :-)
pmichaud moritz_: my last guess was that it would be done as an assign to dynamic $/ 18:54
[Coke] <-- on the GC board.
cxreg moritz_: i kicked pudge
PerlJam tjyang_: what [Coke] said too! :)
[particle] GC stands for grants committee in this case
[Coke] s/board//
PerlJam pictures Coke taking out the trash everytime someone runs a perl6 program.
cxreg Su-Shee: that's a submission, not a posting, innit?
Su-Shee ah. 18:55
18:56 pugssvn joined 18:59 supernovus joined
[Coke] 14:57 < pudge_> Perl 6 isn't Perl. 19:00
(from #perl@perl.org)
appears to have been a driveby. Ah well.
lue
.oO(Then why did Our Leader call it Perl?)
 19:01
19:03 mb_ joined
[Coke] perlsphere.net/ ? never heard of it. (R* on there.) 19:03
lue: that is a debate for the ages.
19:04 Cyrus joined 19:05 eternaleye joined
tjyang_ I am new here on this IRC. How strong is the interest to see Perl6 generating executable for different OS ? Did anybody ask for generating exe feature like me ? 19:05
19:05 cono joined
timdemkowsky tjyang_: Would be a nice feature, but you are at the wrong place for that. You need to ask the parrot guys for that feature 19:06
[Coke] tjyang_: That is something that the parrot backend will eventually provide, though rakudo may target other backends at some point that let it do that too.
pmichaud tjyang_: I expect we'll have that feature relatively soon.
tjyang_: it wouldn't surprise me if it's available in some form by Rakudo Star +2 19:07
[Coke] pmichaud: fakecutables?
pmichaud [Coke]: yes.
[Coke] hokay.
pmichaud getting .pbc's to run is high on my hit list right now. I think we have the initialization cleaned up enough that we could handle it.
jnthn back
pmichaud and I should be able to provide parrot with some detailed trac tickets if not.
jnthn colomon: Yay, glad it worked for you!
pmichaud jnthn: \\o/ 19:08
aCiD2 what does "Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments at line 40, near ";\\n }\\n "" mean? I'm getting it on this line: $sql .= " WHERE $!predicates.join(' AND ')";
jnthn pmichaud: Good nab? :-)
tjyang_ thanks for all who answer my beginner question.
colomon jnthn: mind you, I've only tried one line in the REPL so far. :)
pmichaud jnthn: wasn't much of a nap, no. I only got about 30 minutes before I had to head off to the day's next task
[Coke] aCiD2: are you expecting teh result in there to interpolate?
colomon pmichaud++
[particle] tjyang_: parrot would welcome your donations for that feature: parrot.org/donate
jnthn pmichaud: Aww.
aCiD2 [Coke]: sure am, because it works on the line before it :)
pmichaud tjyang_: thanks for asking! questions like those let us know what's important to the community :)
jnthn aCiD2: It looks like you want ~= if you're trying to concatenate. 19:09
aCiD2 my $sql = "SELECT $!columns.map(*.sql).join(', ') FROM $!from.name()"; works, but the former doesn't seem to
[Coke] I would have expected that to need a {}.
aCiD2 ah
[Coke]: No, not if you provide parenthesis
jnthn: that's got it, thanks!
19:09 kiffin joined
[Coke] rakudo: my $sql = " WHERE $!predicates.join(' AND ')"; 19:09
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Lexical 'self' not found␤ in main program body at line 2:/tmp/lDfLXPXdHK␤»
jnthn aCiD2: $a .= foo() is like $a = $a.foo(); :-)
[Coke] er, do you mean .= or ~= ?
aCiD2 jnthn: of course, that makes sense now
jnthn [Coke]: You wants to be in a method, but that'd work I expect. 19:10
[Coke] er, I just caught up. going back to sleep. :P
jnthn [Coke]: If it doesn't, it's a bug. :-)
aCiD2 [Coke]: I meant ~= apparently, but was thinking in perl 5
whee can you slice strings? I think I'm doing it wrong :| 19:12
Su-Shee 700! 70!
tjyang_ particle: got the URL, will consider.
get back to work :)
tylercurtis Su-Shee: I hope you didn't define postfix:<!>.... that might take a while. 19:13
19:13 japhb joined, darkop joined
Su-Shee I'm motivating everyone with download number clicking. ;) 19:13
[particle] a rakudo milestone: more downloads than bugs in the rt queue! 19:15
pmichaud rakudo star is #22 on reddit.
19:15 kiffin joined 19:16 [1]Casan joined
PerlJam still boggles a little bit as these tweets that say something like "perl6 is here at last" 19:16
lue rakudo: my $a = "hello"; say $a[1..3]
PerlJam s/as/at/
p6eval rakudo da16b5: ( no output )
lue aren't string splices NYI?
[particle] 25% of the rakudo.org visits today are from reddit 19:17
Su-Shee PerlJam: well the tweets I see seem genuinly excited. :)
[particle] over 1300
PerlJam yes. So far, it's all been good news today :)
supernovus rakudo: my regex hashKey { ( .*? ) \\: }; if "hello:" ~~ /<&hashKey>/ { say $/<hashKey>[0]; }
[particle] PerlJam: marketing is important, after all :)
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
jnthn lue: No, strings are not for splicing. :-) 19:18
lue: Bufs are for providing for that kinda stuff. Or use substr
supernovus that used to return 'hello' without the : on 'alpha'. :(
[particle] news.ycombinator.com is the second largest referrer, never knew about it
whee I have a string and want a clear way to say "strip off the first n characters and the last m characters"; substr is a little ugly
lue I think we left the so-called 'naysayers' speechless by actually _releasing_ something. They can't wail about it not being 'released'. 19:19
PerlJam rakudo: my $a = "hello"; say $a.comb.[1..3];
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«ell␤»
PerlJam lue: there you go :)
lue rakudo: my $a = "hello"; say $a.comb.[1..3].perl;
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«("e", "l", "l")␤»
cosimo rakudo: my $host='127.0.0.1:11211'; my ($ip, $port) = $host ~~ m/(.*) : (\\d+) $/; say $ip.perl, $port.perl; 19:20
lue aha! I knew it! :)
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ # WARNING: this is not working perl code␤ # and for debugging purposes only␤ from => 15,␤ orig => "127.0.0.1:11211",␤ to => -3,␤)Any␤»
PerlJam details details :)
Casan hah, I haven't seen the Duke Nukem 3D reference yet ;) it is indeed a cheerful day.
cosimo rakudo: my $host='127.0.0.1:11211'; my ($ip, $port) = $host ~~ m/(.*) : (\\d+) $/; say $ip.Str.perl, $port.Str.perl;
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«"""Any()<0x38d12d0>"␤»
cosimo rakudo: my $host='127.0.0.1:11211'; my ($ip, $port) = $host ~~ m/(.*) : (\\d+) $/; say $ip.Str, $port.Str;
[Coke] cosimo, I think you want named captures instead. 19:21
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Any()<0x38d12d0>␤»
cosimo [Coke]: can you show me an example?
aCiD2 gist.github.com/498974 any thoughts on my first bit of Perl 6? :)
[particle] my $a = "hello"; say $a.comb.[ $a[*+1] .. $a[*-2] ].perl;
aCiD2 Copying the idea of Fey from Perl 5
PerlJam cosimo: also, you realize that / : / doesn't match a literal colon?
supernovus Is there a reason that capturing parens inside a lexical regex don't turn into a named capture in the $/ anymore? 19:23
[Coke] rakudo: my $host='127.0.0.1:11211'; $host ~~ m/$<host>=(.*) ':' $<port>=(\\d+) $/; say $/<host> ~ "@" ~ $/<port> 19:24
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1@11211␤»
PerlJam supernovus: er, what?
[Coke] (holy crap that works.)
cosimo - there you go.
supernovus PerlJam: Sorry that was worded terribly.
PerlJam: Basically if you use "hello" ~~ / <&namedRegex>/ and the named regex has a capturing () inside it, I would expect to be able to look at $/<namedRegex>[0] and find the result. 19:25
PerlJam <&foo> doesn't capture 19:26
you'd have to do foo=&foo
er, <foo=&foo>
19:26 Searle left
tylercurtis aCiD2: Why not use @!attributes for Selects' $!predicates = [], etc.? 19:26
aCiD2 tylercurtis: because I didn't know about them :)
that certainly makes more sense, thanks 19:27
tylercurtis aCiD2: you can simplify the from method to "method from (Table $!from) { self; };", too.
PerlJam supernovus: for <...> to be capturing, the first character after the < needs to be a "word" character
supernovus Ah, see, the code used to be / <namedRegex> / back in Rakudo alpha days, and <namedRegex> did capture without the name= part... oh how much has changed since I wrote this stupid program.
aCiD2 tylercurtis: how does that work? That just magically sets the attribute? 19:28
[Coke] cosimo: ?
tylercurtis aCiD2: yes. perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#Attribut...parameters 19:29
aCiD2 interesting!
PerlJam supernovus: that's part of the spec that's still in flux somewhat last I heard.
supernovus PerlJam: I'm assuming there is no way to use the <namedCapture> syntax outside of a grammar these days?
PerlJam supernovus: right.
supernovus PerlJam: Fantastic. Oh well, a few extra characters won't hurt anything. Off to make those changes. 19:30
moritz_ well, there miight but. But it would be quite evil
rakudo: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Grammar { token foo { foo } }; say 'foobar' ~~ /<foo>/ 19:31
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/6bIghH3U4Y␤ in 'Cool::match' at line 2377:CORE.setting␤ in 'Regex::ACCEPTS' at line 5551:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/6bIghH3U4Y␤»
[Coke] reddit announcement still hasn't outvoted the "going to be announced" announcement yet. =-)
moritz_ rakudo: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Cursor { token foo { foo } }; say 'foobar' ~~ /<foo>/
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«foo␤»
moritz_ see? it's possible... but don't do that at home (or work) :-) 19:32
tylercurtis PerlJam: supernovus: you can do that with built-in named rules like <alpha>. But no non-evil way to do it for non-builtins.
rakudo: 'a' ~~ /<alpha>+/; $<alpha>.say # see?
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«a␤»
moritz_ [Coke]: I see 60 upvotes for the announcement on www.reddit.com/r/perl/
supernovus moritz_: Yeah, I don't want to be monkey patching to reduce <hashkey=&hashKey> to <hashKey> it's not worth it, and it's VERY evil!
PerlJam tylercurtis: oh, good point
moritz_ supernovus: agreed 19:33
19:33 kjeldahl joined
lue considers sending the story to /. again to get it noticed/posted on the front page 19:33
19:33 nomad1 joined, rindolf joined
rindolf Hi all. 19:33
lue by again I mean 'be the third person to send in the news' 19:34
rindolf Congrats for Rakudo Star.
[Coke] moritz_: yes. the pre-announce had like 63.
I have yet to see anything on /. doing a search.
pmichaud afk, errand 19:35
mathw [Coke]: It's possible they've not accepted it yet/at all 19:36
I got some friends to upvote the submission
cosimo [Coke]: sorry, put my son to bed :) 19:38
[Coke]: thanks though
Cache::Memcached is on its way :)
[Coke] mathw: ah, would I have to be logged in to see it in the holding area, then?
cosimo: no worries. enjoy.
mathw [Coke]: I believe so, yes
lue I've upvoted both stories so far. 19:39
[they're in the firehose, so members-only :/]
19:39 avuserow joined
[Coke] can we get the book from * in to the book downloads queue? 19:39
(the book at github.com/perl6/book/downloads is dated last month.
moritz_ I can build a fresh copy, and upload it
should be pretty much the same 19:40
[Coke] moritz_: or that works too.
[Coke] hasn't had a slashdot ID since.. parrot 1.0? maybe?
0.1?
PerlJam moritz_++
moritz_ don't you have to pay for a slashdot ID?
tylercurtis lue: really? I was able to see masak's submission.
mathw not that I usually rate slashdot as a news source
[Coke] ah, that was 0.1.1, and I didn't post it to /. whee. 19:41
mathw moritz_: no
and I certainly don't rate slashdot as a discussion forum
lue tylercurtis: Hrm. In any case, it's in the 'firehose'
.oO(don't trust me. I just signed up for /. to post R*)
tylercurtis lue: although I couldn't find it via search. I don't remember how I did end up at it, though.
Su-Shee mathw: rate it as a publishing booster ;) 19:42
lue I wonder if it would be appropriate to submit R* a third time. [I've seen /. stories before were 'multiple people submitted'] 19:43
sorear Good * #perl6 19:44
lue hello o/
19:46 levengli joined
levengli ahoy to one and all 19:47
19:47 jaldhar_ joined 19:48 pheuter joined
moritz_ can I upvote immediately on slashdot? or do I have to gain karma first? 19:48
levengli why is it that i have libicu4 ibtalled, but it's not recognized? 19:49
mathw I could do it...
sorear levengli: maybe you're missing libicu-dev
19:49 bjarneh joined
lue I just pressed the + symbol [while logged in, don't know if that matters] 19:49
levengli i think that i added that as well, i am trying a clean build
sorear did you install icu before or after Parrot/ 19:50
moritz_ levengli: do you also have the development libraries installed? 19:52
libicu4-dev or -devel or so?
levengli depends which parrot installation, but probably after
moritz_ (depends on your system)
that's too late
levengli i should
moritz_ parrot needs libicu-dev at configuration time
book uploaded 19:53
levengli it has it now :)
19:54 frobnitz joined
levengli does star install into /usr/bin? 19:54
aCiD2 levengli: no, the directory you untarred it to + /install
moritz_ it installs into wherever you say it to install
levengli how can i redirect it?
moritz_ can be changed with perl Configure.pl --prefix=/opt/Rakudo-Star/
or whatever you want the prefix to be 19:55
(don't use /usr/ for that :-)
only your package manager should install stuff into /usr/bin
cxreg --prefix=/somewhere/easy/to/rm-rf/
aCiD2 gnu stow ftw
19:55 azawawi joined
levengli t/01-sanity/01-tap.................ok 19:55
2/10 skipped: various reasons
i liked the reason
moritz_ if there are multi skip reasons within the same file, that's what you get 19:56
levengli now that it appears to work, make realclean?
moritz_ now that it appears to work, DON'T TOUCH IT ANYMORE!!! :-) 19:57
azawawi moritz_: hi, quick question about blizkost and git since I am new to github. I only sent the pull request to jnthn. Should I have sent to all of the committers? 19:58
lue moritz_: Really? Only your package manager should install to /usr/bin ? Huh. 19:59
moritz_ azawawi: doesn't hurt to send it to all
levengli moritz_: seriously, should/can i run make realclean? 20:00
moritz_ lue: at least if you prefer sanity
levengli: I have no idea - I haven't experimented much with R* yet
20:01 aharoni joined
moritz_ levengli: I hope it works... just try it and see if it does 20:02
pheuter Where can i find a gentle introduction to perl6 and language features. I find the pdf in doc/ too verbose and not enough variety in examples. It also seems to assume familiarity with perl < 6
levengli ./perl6 -e 'say "hello"' still runs
that's a good sign
moritz_ pheuter: it shouldn't assume familiarity with perl < 6 - only with programming languages in general 20:03
anyway, if it's too verbose, perlcabal.org/syn/ might be terse enough :-)
and see perl6.org/documentation/ for other docs
pheuter moritz_: great, appreciate it 20:04
PerlJam pheuter: There's also some perl 6 screencasts that are fairly gentle.
pheuter PerlJam: oh, cool 20:05
moritz_ PerlJam: uhm, if the book is too verbose, the screencasts certainly will be
levengli szabgab.com/talks/perl6/
azawawi moritz_: thx. sent :)
moritz_ (unless I misunderstood "verbose" in that context)
PerlJam pheuter: the screencasts are at szabgab.com/perl6.html#screencast
levengli Gabor (szabgab) is usually very clear
PerlJam moritz_: I'm happy to err on the side of giving too much information for learning Perl 6 :) 20:06
pheuter great, i should have enough to get started
tylercurtis pheuter: moritz_++'s Perl 5 to 6 articles, linked from the second url he mentioned, are excellent, even for people who aren't very familiar Perl 5 (like me). 20:07
pheuter: perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/0...-calendar/ is also excellent. 20:08
PerlJam pheuter: no matter what reading/listening material you use, you'll want to hang out here and ask questions. 20:09
pheuter tylercurtis: nice. Hm, why is it that perl, despite its seemingly enormous libraries (cpan), robust regex, and relatively intuitive syntax, isn't very "popular" (and by popular, i mean you don't it used if most places where you look).
PerlJam: I was planning to ;)
avuserow Congrats on Rakudo Star, everyone. :)
kiffin Yeah, great job!!! 20:10
PerlJam pheuter: you just aren't looking in the right places or perhaps hard enough :)
pheuter *you dont see it used in most places*
perhaps
kiffin a real milestone :)
pheuter but still, you hear more javascript lately
moritz_ pheuter: I think it's related to it being one of the first dynamic languages, which means that it did all the mistakes first that other language designers learned from
pheuter and javascript doesn't even have a standard
PerlJam pheuter: perl is used all over the place, but no one sits there and points it out.
tylercurtis pheuter: ECMAscript has a standard. 20:11
PerlJam pheuter: ecmascript
tylercurtis: you're too quick for me.
pheuter right, but no one says ecmascript
20:11 kiffin left
pheuter many dont even know about it 20:12
moritz_ still, it's the same thing
tylercurtis pheuter: as do many of the web-browser-specific features.
pheuter: Perl 5 doesn't have a standard, either, by the way. 20:13
PerlJam pheuter: you know perl powers amazon.com, parts of the BBC, part of several large financial institutions, bioengineering projects, and the new duckduckgo search engine?
:-)
levengli kudos on improving the doc! the pdf has really improved in the last 4 months
pheuter PerlJam: i knew about dukgo (awesome search engine btw). Didn't know about the rest
moritz_ and the Swedish pension system, for example
levengli of course, now i realize that i have to learn perl from scratch
:(
moritz_ imdb, slashdot
booking.com 20:14
mobile.de
all perl powered
pheuter btw, is cpan compatible with perl6/R*
aCiD2 moritz_: don't forget musicbrainz.org!
avuserow fwiw, $WORK is a Java shop, but Perl is used extensively internally for various sysadmin, building, and other automation
aCiD2 disclaimer: I might work for musicbrainz :)
timdemkowsky just played around with grammars and as i try to parse something, rakudo dies with 'Method 'TOP' not found for invocant of class '' 20:15
pheuter cpan had an enormous amount of libraries available for perl < 6. Does that mean we have to start over?
PerlJam aCiD2: or youporn! :)
pheuter: no.
moritz_ you can load some Perl 5 modules from Perl 6 with Blizkost, the p5-p6 bridge
aCiD2 haha, of course
tylercurtis moritz_: most of those websites also use ECMAscript. ;)
aCiD2 would actually love to work for YouPorn at some point - some awesome tech and constarints to work with in!
and don't go making innuendo jokes about "tight constarints" now.
PerlJam pheuter: though to take advantage of Perl 6 features, some of those will be re-written
szbalint There are several 50M+/month unique user sites running Catalyst :) 20:16
pheuter PerlJam: mm
moritz_ ah right, szbalint++ works for a perl shop too :-)
for which I nearly ended up working as well
szbalint yeah, one of those sites :P
20:16 perl5user joined
lue just submitted news of R* to slashdot, under 'rnddim' 20:16
20:17 levengli left
szbalint lue: slashdot.org/submission/1294860/Rak...6-released 20:17
20:17 Mowah joined
pugssvn r31862 | moritz++ | [t/spec] test that s/// dies on unknown or non-sensical adverbs 20:17
tylercurtis pheuter: the data marshalling between Blizkost and Perl 6 could definitely use a lot of improvement ("use Data::Dumper:from<perl5>; Dumper(5)" works, but "use Data::Dumper:from<perl5>; Dumper([1, 2, 3])" does not).
PerlJam tylercurtis: what does the latter do? just die? 20:18
pheuter tylercurtis: :P
20:18 shirtless joined
szbalint lue: although your submission seems to be "red" for some reason, so yours might get posted anyway :) 20:18
tylercurtis PerlJam: dies with "Sorry, we do not support marshaling most things to Perl 5 yet." 20:19
shirtless So I just read about rakudo star
does this mean perl6 is ready for noobs now?
lue szbalint: I know of the two stories before me (I submitted anyway) and I was surprised that my went from blue to red in just a few seconds.
davidfetter o/` video killed the rakudo star o/` 20:20
radio*
szbalint lue: I see :)
davidfetter wonders when szbalint will get on pl/parrot
moritz_ shirtless: everybody starts out as a Perl 6 noob
20:21 levengli joined
levengli is there a socket implementation in rakodu? 20:21
moritz_ yes
tylercurtis shirtless: as long as you don't try writing the firmware for a pacemaker or airplane in it yet. :)
__sri sadly no non blocking sockets :(
shirtless is the perl6 spec the best doc? 20:22
moritz_ shirtless: certainly not for beginners
levengli shirtless: assuming you understand perl6 grammer
shirtless What should I use?
moritz_ shirtless: the PDF shipped with R* is better to get you started
Cyrus shirtless: That would be a bit like trying to learn how to program your VCR by looking at the engineering blueprints.
shirtless moritz_: ok nice.
moritz_ shirtless: also follow the links on perl6.org/documentation/ 20:23
Cyrus: it's not that bad. The Perl 6 spec does include examples
levengli moriz_ care to elaborate?
Cyrus moritz_: Fair point.
moritz_ levengli: on what?
levengli is there a socket implementation in rakodu
you said yes
moritz_ and so it is :-)
just a sec, I'll get you a link 20:24
jnthn levengli: There's a couple of modules shipped with R* that use it too, I believe. :-)
moritz_ levengli: github.com/mberends/http-server-simple
don't know if that's shipped
levengli let's start with the basic - udp raw socket.
is that available in somthing shipped? 20:25
shirtless nice I feel comfortable using it now
levengli jnthn: which modules?
shirtless I tried it about 6 months ago and gave up because of cryptic error messages
but it's much easier to use now 20:26
moritz_ shirtless: we've worked a lot on those
shirtless It told me exactly what I did wrong when I tried to program in perl5 :D
or C, even;
PerlJam shirtless: rakudo isn't to that level of magic yet
moritz_ rakudo: while (my $x = <STDIN>) { }
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of <STDIN>; in Perl 6 please use $*IN.lines at line 22, near "<STDIN>) {"␤»
jnthn levengli: LWP::Simple does
PerlJam shirtless: for some things, yes; for most things, no.
tylercurtis rakudo: state $foo; # an example of recently improved error messages.
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤"state" not yet implemented at line 22, near "; # an exa"␤»
moritz_ std: while (my $x = <STDIN>) { }
p6eval std 31861: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤This appears to be Perl 5 code at /tmp/RQtTRbtwhI line 1:␤------> [32mwhile [33m⏏[31m(my $x = <STDIN>) { }[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 113m␤» 20:27
moritz_ should be possible to back-port
jnthn levengli: I thought we ahd a HTTP server in there too, but it appeasr not.
shirtless rakudo: for(;;) {}
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of C-style "for (;;)" loop; in Perl 6 please use "loop (;;)" at line 22, near "(;;) {}"␤»
levengli where is LWP::server in the layout?
Tene do we really need the (;;)? 20:28
shirtless PerlJam: I should be able to help with the error messages, as I'll be triggering many of them ;)
PerlJam jnthn: modules/mainline is HTTP::Daemon
Tene rakudo: loop { say 1 }
jnthn PerlJam: Oh!
p6eval rakudo da16b5:
..OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1�
jnthn PerlJam: That's...not obvious. :-)
avuserow rakudo: say $*VERSION 20:29
p6eval rakudo da16b5: ( no output )
jnthn levengli: There's no LWP::Server module; there's HTTP::Daemon as PerlJam++ just pointed out, plus there's also the link moritz_ mentioend to HTTP::Server::Simple, but that wasn't in Rakudo *.
avuserow I forgot, what is the magic version variable?
supernovus I found an interesting bug. You cannot have named hash parameters with the is copy trait.
shirtless Where do you guys expect perl6 to shine compared to other currently popular languages?
moritz_ shirtless: regexes/grammars
PerlJam shirtless: grammars and oop
tylercurtis shirtless: Parsing(grammars/regexes). Type system. List manipulation. 20:30
moritz_ cool built-ins :-)
golfing
meta-ops
PerlJam awesome community
moritz_ dictator :-) 20:31
vboele for a sec i was wondering why perl uses shirtless
i mean you never know it with perl, you guys got some weird naming conventions
:P
moritz_ we've got PHASERS!
vboele exactly 20:32
lue I forgot about those :)
moritz_ and Rat, Cat, KitchenSink
PerlJam but we also bless things too
(though these days, we keep the blessing happening behind the scenes)
pyrimidine isn't there a YOU_ARE_HERE?
PerlJam pyrimidine: aye
levengli i saw a zen operator
lue and (NYI) Bags! .oO(And a whole bunch of other funnily-named things)
shirtless thanks for answering my questions. I have one more i guess: where are the available modules for perl6 so I can start writing interesting code?
sorear we keep our phasers in banks
modules.perl6.org
shirtless nice 20:33
jnthn lue: Bag actually is the proper name for that data structure. :P
moritz_ which reminds me of a very nice poll: www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=643317
shirtless thanks
lue sorry, Bag's :)
timdemkowsky somebody got further info on parsing with grammars? 20:34
moritz_ timdemkowsky: there's a whole chapter devoted to them in the book
sorear timdemkowsky: check out src/Perl6/Grammar.pm in the rakudo sources
PerlJam sorear: don't scare him! :)
cxreg where's TimToady today?
moritz_ cxreg: probably between Barcelona and Pisa somewhere 20:35
[Coke] haven't seen him for days. I'm guessing travel.
timdemkowsky moritz_: What book do you mean? That synopsys thing?
levengli short question before i leave: one of perl5 shortcoming was that you couldn't make an executable from it (and dont get be started on B)
moritz_ timdemkowsky: no, look for a .pdf
levengli any plans for perl6 on this?
timdemkowsky sorear: I'm gonna do this, thanks
moritz_ levengli: yes
tylercurtis timdemkowsky: the PDF in doc/ in the R* distributions.
levengli moritz_: ?
timdemkowsky moritz_: okay, i'll look around
tylercurtis: thanks! 20:36
supernovus rakudo: sub orp ($a, $b, :%c is copy) { say "$a = $b"; }; orp("hi","there");
lue considering Perl 6 is a specification, I say it's entirely possible for there to be a compiler.
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤ in '!STORE' at line 4632:CORE.setting␤ in '!STORE' at line 4646:CORE.setting␤ in 'orp' at line 1:/tmp/Eoh61H6GDE␤ in 'orp' at line 22:/tmp/Eoh61H6GDE␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Eoh61H6GDE␤»
PerlJam lue: there are already several compilers! :)
[Coke] levengli: expect a way to do that by the next Star, likely.
moritz_ levengli: yes, there are plans.
[Coke] (we're already doing basically that to generate the perl6 executable itself.)
levengli Stars a lightyears away from each other ;) 20:37
moritz_ well, most stars actually have twins
tylercurtis levengli: if you're willing to stick to a very small subset of Perl 6, you can compile it to native code RIGHT NOW. ;)
moritz_ which are pretty close
(hint, hint)
pmichaud hugme: tweet rakudoperl windows .msi binary install for Rakudo Star 2010.07 now available: github.com/rakudo/star/downloads #perl6 #rakudo
hugme hugs pmichaud; tweet delivered
levengli don't you be hint hinting.... i just installled Start
it's outdated already?
moritz_ not yet
20:37 _macdaddy joined
sorear If you are willing to stick to a slightly larget subset of Perl 6, you can compile to a .NET assembly 20:38
jnthn levengli: No, but we'll surely be working hard to make it so in a month time. ;-)
moritz_ rakudo: say 'ABC' ~~ /:i 'abc'/
PerlJam levengli: think of R* as the beginning of a journey
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«ABC␤»
tylercurtis niezca: say -42;
moritz_ that's something that's broken in R*, but fixed in the latested development version of Rakudo already
lue most planets have twins too (Earth has Mondas)
tylercurtis niecza: say -42; 20:39
p6eval niecza 64fc764: OUTPUT«Failed to resolve lexical &say in mainline at CodeGen.pm line 554.␤»
sorear the evalbot's niecza is broken
20:39 Kodi joined
levengli moritz_: why is the output ABC? or in other words, what did the ~~ do here? 20:39
sorear I'd love to know why
tylercurtis sorear: If that works, Niecza definitely has Bennu beaten. :)
PerlJam levengli: ~~ does smart matching
levengli that i know 20:40
Kodi moritz_: Can you hug^W add me to proto so I can add a module?
levengli so i would have assumed it would say the result of the ~~, why did it say ABC?
tylercurtis levengli: and the result of matching a Regex stringifies to the matching part of the string.
PerlJam levengli: because that *is* the result (stringified)
levengli tylercurtis++ PerlJam++ thanks!
i'm outahere
20:41 levengli left
moritz_ hugme: add kodi to proto 20:41
hugme hugs kodi. Welcome to proto!
Kodi Thanks!
moritz_ Kodi: btw I'm not the only one who can do that, many people here have that power
hugme: show proto
hugme moritz_: the following people have power over 'proto': P⁣erlJam, T⁣imToady, [⁣particle], c⁣olomon, j⁣nthn, m⁣asak, m⁣oritz_, p⁣michaud. URL: github.com/masak/proto/
sorear tylercurtis: I don't think I ever did get around to implementing prefix:<-> 20:42
Kodi moritz_: Yeah, just thought I'd get a better response if I asked somebody as opposed to the channel at large.
sorear stefan@stefans:~/niecza$ ./niecza_eval -e 'sub prefix:<->($x) { 0 - $x }; say -42'
-42 20:43
Kodi moritz_: Sorry, my GitHub username is "KodiB".
sorear quickly adds to the setting
moritz_ hugme: add KodiB to proto
hugme hugs KodiB. Welcome to proto!
shirtless Perl6 has no support for opening directories yet or am I missing something?
tylercurtis sorear: You've definitely got Bennu beat. :)
moritz_ shirtless: .say for dir('.')
Kodi Cool.
shirtless moritz_: where can I find documentation for that? I looked for perl6 file io doc and found not much. Perhaps I should have looked for system doc or something 20:44
sorear moritz_: do you keep build logs? I'd be interested in knowing why niecza doesn't seem to generate the setting
moritz_ shirtless: no, it's not properly documented yet :(
dalek ecza: fd10c88 | sorear++ | CodeGen.pm:
Make clear that failure to resolve is a bug indicator
moritz_ shirtless: not your fault
shirtless moritz_: ok i'll see if I can find the code and document it
whee moritz_: are documentation needs in the bug tracker? 20:45
moritz_ whee: don't think so
lue I'm wondering. If I make a class as a module, how do I make it so you import it as A::B ( use A::B ) but not start doing A::B.new() and such? 20:46
moritz_ sorear: just a sec...
lue: by making it a module, not a class
sorear: moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/niecza.log
sorear What am I looking at the output of? 20:48
lue something like module A::B; class C {...} ? 20:49
tylercurtis lue: what exactly are you trying to do? 20:50
pmichaud time to see if I can get a better nap. :-)
shirtless wow, --gen-parrot
nice
pmichaud bbiaw
supernovus wtf... Could not find sub &require ...
dalek ecza: 01680b9 | sorear++ | (2 files):
Add prefix:<-> to the setting tylercurtis++
sorear module A; class B is export { } ||| use A; B.new # this works in niecza
moritz_ sorear: git pull 20:51
make
sorear I don't have module A::B quit working yet
moritz_: in a loop?
moritz_ sorear: executed by crontab every 2 hours
so "yes"
lue I want to create a class that you import as Temporal::Hextime, yet I also want to avoid having to say Temporal::Hextime.new() and such. [maybe I should look at more modules for help]
tylercurtis supernovus: I don't think Rakudo implements require yet. 20:52
20:52 nomad1 left
PerlJam lue: what do you want to say instead of "Temporal::Hextime.new()" 20:52
?
supernovus smashes head on desk.
20:52 masak joined
masak \\o/ 20:52
20:52 timbunce joined
PerlJam lue: you just want to import subs? 20:52
jnthn masak! \\o/
moritz_ sub new_ht() is export { Temporal::Hextime.new() }
supernovus Okay, I am abandoning porting this to master for now. Alpha must remain around for a while yet it appears.
masak jnthn! \\o/
sorear masak!
moritz_ supernovus: just implement require - all the logic is already there 20:53
[Coke] moritz_: not everyone wants to be a core hacker.
masak I understand there's a party in here tonight :)
[Coke] Which I can attest to as a parrot user. Sometimes you just want it to (*@#&$ work. =-)
tylercurtis lue: Temporal/Hextime.pm -- "class HT {...}", somescript.p6 -- "use Temporal::Hextime; HT.new;" probably works like I think you want it to.
moritz_ [Coke]: I fear that's true; but sometimes it works to lure somebody :-)
[Coke] moritz_: oh, absolutely. keep trying. =-) 20:54
supernovus moritz_: I may do that. I just have to figure out how to make runtime importation work... oh, and learn a lot more about the guts of Rakudo :-)
lue hai masak o/
[Coke] moritz_: enjoy your tickets. ;)
jnthn masak: Got your party hat?
I hope you didn't bring sill to the party. :P
masak party hat --> Ĉarl Masak
lue so I'll only get it by setting up folders? Hrm.
jnthn Wow, which language has non-upside-down hats? :-) 20:55
Tene also ⇒ T̂ene
masak jnthn: Esperanto... :)
moritz_ rakudo: (1..10).map({ .say; $_ }).[3]
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
masak jnthn: ĉĝĵĥŝŭ
jnthn masak: What does that word mean? 20:56
shirtless Where in the perl6 source are subroutines implemented? Just a starting point is enough
tylercurtis lue: I'm fairly sure that's how module names in use get mapped to files.
masak *lol*
jnthn: no, just a list of the ASCII-unfriendly letters.
shirtless s/perl6/rakudo/
moritz_ shirtless: which part of subroutines? :-)
sorear shirtless: very spread out, what aspect do you want?
lue Ni estas... # I need to learn my esperanto :(
masak shirtless: parsing, actions, or runtime? 20:57
sorear moritz_: I am ... stuck trying to figure out how your make is managing to output that.
shirtless sorear: I just want to know for now where I can go to find out if something is there or not
without trying to use it
moritz_ there's the dispatcher, the signature binder, the parser, some thing which is responsible for calling it...
masak lue: Ni estas tre ĝojaj pro la eldono de Rakudo Star! \\o/
shirtless I'll do some exploring before I bombard with harder questions
masak shirtless++
moritz_ shirtless: a reasonable first approximation is to see if things parsed
tylercurtis shirtless: "perl6 -e" :)
moritz_ shirtless: src/Perl6/Grammar.pm is the place to look at, for that
shirtless Ok thanks for the tips guys 20:58
moritz_ some meaningless stats: in the last few days, we had less than 90 unique active nicks in here (per day) - today it's 144 already
lue must remember what he found out when he first came: #perl6 can even help you with learning Esperanto :)
jnthn lue: And probably quite a few other langauges too. Sometimes, people even get Perl 6 help here. :-) 20:59
moritz_ sorear: anything I can do to help you figure it out?
sorear moritz_: are there any modified-per-git-status files? 21:00
jnthn Wow. The Windows installer is already into a 3-figure number of downloads.
sorear it's very intriguing that it seems to have last updated the p6eval display revision on a mid-revactor version
Jun23 no less
moritz_ just untracked files, no modified files 21:01
should I try a git clean -xdf, and run make again?
sorear What are the untracked files?
lue
.oO(jnthn: really? Tell me more of those ancient times when #perl6 discussion were.... 'relevant'!)
sorear I have all the normal build detritus in .gitignored alread 21:02
moritz_ Program.{cs,exe]
Setting.dll{,.so}
setting_ast.store
sorear oh yes, *old* build detritus 21:03
I wonder if having those files around would break the build
moritz_ git-cleans forcefully 21:04
sorear tests it
moritz_ btw is it kosher to run parallel make?
timdemkowsky i compiled with -j3 and it works 21:05
sorear It should be, but I think all of my rules are part of a single dependency chain anyway
moritz_ damn, my YAPC::EU talk is now iin parallel with mberends' DB talk
timdemkowsky: I'm talking about niecza right now, not rakudo :-)
[Coke] should hit 1K downloads of rakudo today.
timdemkowsky moritz_: whoops, i should read everything before i write - sorry!
moritz_ timdemkowsky: no problem
m:g// is harder than I anticipated 21:09
Tene moritz_: make sure it's lazy, too!
moritz_ actually it's not the modifier that is hard - it's turning m// into a call that's hard
Tene: once the calling works, it'll be as lazy as Cool.match 21:10
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sorear moritz_: does this mean that Regex.ACCEPTS and/or Regex.Bool is going away? 21:12
moritz_ sorear: no 21:13
sorear: it's just that S05 says rx/.../ always returns a regex, and m/../ always executes it straight away
so for rx/.../, you still need .Bool and .ACCEPTS 21:14
sorear What does /../ do?
moritz_ it's magic :-)
I guess it actually does the same as rx/.../
PerlJam magic == context dependent
moritz_ under the hood
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masak can junctions both autothread and be lazy? www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen...er/c0vhx7k 21:16
moritz_ they can short-circuit, which is a form of laziness 21:17
moritz_ replies
cxreg but they are eager, in that you can't have infinite ones
(today 21:18
moritz_ you'd need assumptions and quite some knowledge to allow infinite jucntions 21:19
supernovus Hmm, it appears that roles don't inherit exported methods from modules imported using "use".
cosimo rakudo: my $h='127.0.0.1:11211'; if $h ~~ m/ <ip> = (.*) \\: <port> = (\\d+) / { say $ip, $port }
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if $h ~~ m"␤»
moritz_ supernovus: you can't export methods like that. if you write 'is export' on a method, it actually exports a sub, not a method 21:20
cosimo rakudo: my $h='127.0.0.1:11211'; if $h ~~ / <ip> = (.*) \\: <port> = (\\d+) / { say $ip, $port }
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if $h ~~ /"␤»
moritz_ supernovus: if you want to compose methods, use roles instead
supernovus err, sorry, I mean sub.
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cosimo rakudo: my $h='127.0.0.1:11211'; if $h ~~ /^ <ip>=(.*) \\: <port>=(\\d+) $/ { say $ip, $port } 21:20
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if $h ~~ /"␤»
[Coke] cosimo: $<ip>=() 21:21
rcfox Hey guys, I was looking at perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 and there was one statement that seemed kind of odd: In fact you are discouraged from using parenthesis around the conditions.
pugssvn r31863 | Kodi++ | [t/spec] Added tests for RT #76804.
moritz_ rcfox: why is that odd?
Kodi rcfox: It looks ugly once you're used to no parentheses. 21:22
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moritz_ Kodi: there's a deeper reason for that statement too 21:22
supernovus I have a role that has several methods in it that are used by every plugin in my system. There are some other modules that export subs that are used by the methods in the role. However, placing the "use" statement in the role, it claims that it could not find the subs. If I place it in the class implementing the role, it works, but that rather defeats the purpose of roles, if each class had to import modules to be used by the role
...
moritz_ in Perl 6, every identifier that's followed parenthesis is parsed as a function call
rcfox moritz_: What is the rationale then?
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cxreg moritz_: wasn't Infinite Junction in one of douglas adams' books? :) 21:22
moritz_ so if you write for(1..3) { ... } # without space between 'for' and '('
it's a function call
and you're screwed 21:23
Kodi moritz_: Ah.
shirtless I just discovered that I am going to have to use my good computer for perl6
heh
moritz_ so it's best just to omit them
[Coke] shirtless: I hear that. :P
rcfox Is Perl 6 parseable with BNF?
[Coke] I was trying to run some profiling code against perl6 on my netbook. ;)
timbunce shirtless: compiling modules to .pir is a big help
moritz_ supernovus: that's a weird bug, and worth submitting
[Coke] rcfox: ... I'm not sure anyone has tried.
but it's parsable with perl6.
moritz_ supernovus: especially if you can fit it into a small example
rcfox: it's not 21:24
supernovus I'll see what I can do
shirtless timbunce: it looked like that's what parrot was doing when it caused me to hit swap on my p4, which is a pile of trash anyway.. it's only got 256 mb ram
[Coke] shirtless: oof.
moritz_ yea, that's a bit small
tylercurtis rcfox: maybe if you don't care about extensible syntax.
shirtless my other computer is decent it has 3gb ram
[Coke] rakudo is happier with at /least/ a gig.
shirtless so i should be ok
moritz_ 1G of memory should be availble for compiling rakudo
[Coke] we'll try to work on that, but yah. 21:25
rcfox I was just wondering. I remember some hoopla about Perl 5 not being properly parsable.
shirtless i wouldn't bother, just wait for people to get more ram :d
lue would 384 MiB RAM be enough ? 21:26
BinGOs perhaps it could have been mentioned in the README that a perl5 with multi was required for blizkost-install
moritz_ rcfox: it's a similar story with Perl 6
shirtless lue: no
lue: I just tried with similar.. it's not gonna happen ;) 21:27
I mean it will, but it will hit your swap partition and probably set fire to your hard drive.
21:28 bjarneh left
rcfox moritz_: I guess that's a function of it being a dynamic language. 21:28
lue I still can't use my own computer then :/ 21:29
masak we finally made Slashdot: developers.slashdot.org/story/10/07...?art_pos=1
shirtless lue: what country are you in?
szbalint and I've got mod points .) 21:30
sorear rcfox: People who don't understand the true Scotsman fallacy are always going to make ridiculous claims. Ignore them.
supernovus moritz_: Gah, I actually think it has more to do with my dirty cheap subroutine replacement for require than it does with classes. I tried an example that "use MyClass" and it works, but if I "require 'MyClass.pm'" it does not work. 21:31
Lorn rakudo: say "foo"
jnthn masak: "from the if-you-call-that-early dept."
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«foo␤»
masak jnthn: pretty inevitable. :)
moritz_ supernovus: ah, okk
moritz_ -> sleep 21:32
21:32 Getty joined
jnthn masak: :) 21:32
lue masak: yaaay! \\o/
21:33 davewood joined
masak get in there and flap at the trolls with your colorful butterfly wings! :) 21:33
lue From the if-you-call-that-early department :) 21:34
tylercurtis There seem to have been refreshingly few of the usual disparaging remarks on HN and Reddit and such.
cosimo help. how to do named captures in regex? 21:35
lue I'm surprised the version of the story I posted made it to the front (I had to become rnddim on /. for some reason)
cosimo if $hostname ~~ / <ip>=(.*) \\: <port>=(\\d+) / { say $ip, $port } 21:36
doesn't seem to work right...
vboele rakudostar on slashdot
cosimo i can't seem to find a "Named captures" chapter in the syn document
Kodi cosimo: Try grammar hostname { token TOP { <ip> \\: <port> }; token ip { .* }; token port { \\d+ }; }; hostname.parse($hostname) 21:37
supernovus gives up on this until rakudo has 'require'... even if that means he figures out how to implement it ;-) 21:38
tylercurtis rakudo: my $h='127.0.0.1:11211'; if $h ~~ / $<ip> = (.*) \\: $<port> = (\\d+) / { say $<ip>, $<port> }
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«127.0.0.111211␤»
masak cosimo: $<ip>=
tylercurtis cosimo: ^^
cosimo tylercurtis: the 'say $<ip>' brings me into panic mode
tylercurtis: what does that mean? say $<ip>? 21:39
Kodi tylercurtis: By jimminy, I didn't know that worked yet!
jnthn cosimo: Same as $/<ip>
cosimo it's a special syntax for named captures only?
jnthn: ook
tylercurtis cosimo: $<foo> is a shortcut for $/<foo>.
jnthn cosimo: Yeah. Like $0 is like $/[0]
Just syntactic sugar.
cosimo definitely panic mode :) 21:40
[particle] you had to use $0... which is of course entirely different to p5ers
cosimo great stuff
jnthn [particle]: Just answering questions before they're asked. :P
cosimo and...
rakudo: my $x = 'abcdef'; $x ~~ s/cd/xy/g; say $x; 21:41
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of /g; in Perl 6 please use :g at line 22, near "; say $x;"␤»
cosimo s/xx/yy/g ?
jnthn s:g/xx/yy/
adverbs come up front now
std: $$][/^&]l/:^$& :&}::*'%'''^';^; 21:42
p6eval std 31863: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unsupported use of $$ variable; in Perl 6 please use $*PID at /tmp/0WswPq1VPn line 1:␤------> [32m$$[33m⏏[31m][/^&]l/:^$& :&}::*'%'''^';^;[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
pheuter type in docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/...3.pod.html at section "Solutions to the exercises", #5 should be method stat_or_def($/), not method stat_or_def. tylercurtis ^^
cosimo jnthn: so not m/s:g: xx/yy/ then?
rakudo: my $x = 'abcdef'; $x ~~ s:g/cd/xy/; say $x;
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«abxyef␤»
Getty are those warnings actually part of the real rakudo, too? so that it detects old perl5 behaviour and directly offers perl6 solution? or just bot feature? 21:43
cosimo cool
rakudo: my $x = 'abcdef'; $x ~~ s/cd/xy/; say $x;
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«abxyef␤»
jnthn Getty: Part of real Rakudo.
tylercurtis pheuter++ thanks. It won't be updated on the website until next month's Parrot release, I'm afraid, but I'll update it in Parrot's repo now.
Getty Rakudo++ ;)
masak \\o/ twitter.com/catojm/status/19856840416
pheuter np 21:44
masak nice to see all these newcomers on the channel!
hugme: hug newcomers
hugme hugs newcomers
Getty masak: your blog posts are animating to come ;)
masak blushes 21:45
Getty masak: even tho its always shaking when Getty arrives <makingchoirsounds>
pheuter tylercurtis: im also getting a "Method 'ast' not found for invocant of class 'Undef'". When trying #6. Not sure where that is actually being thrown from. Is there a way to check? 21:47
[Coke] supernovus: if nothing else, if you could make sure there's a ticket for adding 'require', that'd be great.
supernovus Where is 'use' and its related ilk defined? I want to see what it would take to write a proper require function (better than my cheap hack that used slurp() and eval() anyway...) 21:48
jnthn S11 I believe
I have vague recollections of deciding not to take on require at some point (like, when I was doing needs/import/use). 21:49
masak the /. story now washes over Twitter.
supernovus jnthn: Sorry, I meant what file in the rakudo source tree. I've read the Synopsis, but I have no idea how 'use' and 'need', etc. are implemented in Rakudo.
Ah ha, Perl6/Module/Loader.pm seems to be the place I was looking for... 21:50
err. or not... 21:51
tylercurtis pheuter: try putting <?DEBUG> at the beginning of the rule TOP. That might help narrow it down. If not, can you put up what you have so far on github/gitorious or somewhere so I can look at it and see how I messed up the tutorial.
pheuter tylercurtis: pastie.org/private/ecvownawwjftmtzb9pra 21:53
jnthn supernovus: Yes, that's the place
lue
.oO(masak: has the /.-ing begun yet?)
jnthn supernovus: It's called from src/Perl6/Actions.pm, look for :sym<use> for example.
pheuter Grammar.pm: pastie.org/private/agzatlvypi6jz71cnzjs4w Actions.pm: pastie.org/private/tjcvv3wlxroy2pbnbkuurq
tylercurtis: ^^
21:55 mrsaturns joined
cosimo rakudo: say getprotobyname('tcp'); 21:55
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &getprotobyname␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/C2lJo5PnUn␤»
mrsaturns How do you compile to pbc with rakudo *? 21:57
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cosimo rakudo: say int(rand(10)) 22:01
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand or (1..N).pick at line 22, near "(10))"␤»
sorear you have to first compile to pir, then use the Parrot compiler
cosimo rakudo: say 10.rand 22:02
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«7.50235730406956␤»
cosimo rakudo: say 10.rand.int
tadzik 'evening
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Method 'int' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/TOI0oeiJVy␤»
cosimo rakudo: say 10.rand.Int
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«6␤»
masak mrsaturns: --target=pbc should do it. but what sorear said.
tylercurtis pheuter: in "method statementlist" in Actions.pm, "$<statement>" should be "$<stat_or_def>" 22:03
sorear there is, at this time, no way to implement --target=pbc that meets pm's QA standards
22:03 perimosocordiae left
pheuter tylercurtis: oh right! i think the guide even mentioned that at one point, just a bit earlier 22:03
tylercurtis: hm, built, but still error 22:04
tadzik Kodi++ # DateTime::Parse -- nice
tylercurtis pheuter: indeed... hmm... 22:05
Kodi tadzik: Thanks. Perl 6 rules are pretty awesome.
In fact, Perl 6 rules.
mrsaturns sorear: when I try --target=pir or --target=pbc they both give me errors when I try to run them, is this just not working or is it just my bad luck?
tadzik and grammars, don't forget :)
sorear mrsaturns: it's very fiddly. 22:06
Kodi tadzik: I hoped to include those by "rules", but I can never keep track of all the terminology. I still call them "regexes" in my head. I guess I should just say "grammars and rules".
sorear you can make it work; the standard library is build this way
tadzik Kodi: grammars are rules grouped together 22:07
shirtless tadzik: just saw that you added stat yesterday, that is just what i wanted
tadzik shirtless: I'm glad
shirtless: I was thinking about just a module, File::Stat, but with moritz_++ we thought this is a nice idea. Maybe temporary, it's not in specs, but anyway 22:08
Kodi tadzik: Sure, I'm just thinking about terms for… well, S05.
++S05 # Oughta cover it.
szbalint chromatic++ # wish I had more mod points 22:09
shirtless tadzik: IO was exactly where I was expecting to find it
but whatever floats your boat 22:10
tylercurtis pheuter: you didn't modify the statement method to make $<assignment>.ast; Also seem to be missing the primary method from Exercise 2.
Though that doesn't fix it, either. 22:11
tadzik shirtless: it's ok for me, that's why it's placed there
but still, _for me_
pheuter tylercurtis: lol, what does method term:sym<primary>($/) do? isnt it primary method?
tadzik and for moritz_++ for he applied it :)
cosimo rakudo: my @x=<a b c>; for my $v -> @x { say $v } 22:12
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '@x'; expected Positional but got Any instead␤ in <anon> at line 2:/tmp/jiJbA7M_sH␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
cosimo rakudo: my @x=<a b c>; for @x -> my $v { say $v }
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Invalid typename in parameter declaration at line 22, near " $v { say "␤»
jnthn cosimo: just -> $v { ... }
cosimo: It's a parameter to the block
tylercurtis pheuter: No. It's for the term:sym<primary> token. The separate primary token and corresponding action method is because assignments expect only a primary on the left instead of an expression.
jnthn cosimo: So it only exists within the block.
So there's no leakage of it. :-) 22:13
cosimo rakudo: my @x=<a b c>; for @x -> $v { say $v }
pheuter hm
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤»
cosimo jnthn: thanks!
jnthn :-)
cosimo: btw, since they're just params you can do like
Kodi std: while do_something();
p6eval std 31863: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing block (apparently gobbled by undeclared routine?) at /tmp/4i_vtpMRov line 1:␤------> [32mwhile do_something()[33m⏏[31m;[0m␤ expecting argument list␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'do_something' used at line 1␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
jnthn rakudo: my @x = <a b c d>; for @x -> $first, $second { say "$first, $second" } 22:14
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«a, b␤c, d␤»
jnthn To iterate two at a time
22:15 Kodi left
cosimo rakudo: my @x=<a b c>; my @y; for @x -> $v { @y.push($v) }; say @y.perl; 22:15
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«["a", "b", "c"]␤»
tylercurtis pheuter: and lastly, I accidentally left "$<expression>.ast" in the action method for assignment. 22:16
pheuter: it should instead be "$<EXPR>.ast".
pheuter: that appears to get it working.
pheuter tylercurtis: would you mind pasting all the changes (just the corrected methods)
tadzik wow, almost 200% of idlers^Wusers on #perl6 since before R* 22:17
awesome
tylercurtis pheuter: I think nopaste.snit.ch/22443 is everything. 22:19
pheuter thnx so much
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tadzik jnthn: any thoughts about DESTDIR for blizkost? I know it's broken in R* but it works in Rakudo itself, and it will make packaging Blizkost for Linux distros possible, which *is* awesome 22:19
tylercurtis Glad to help. :) Thanks for helping me find my mistakes in updating the tutorial. 22:20
tadzik which tutorial?
:)
tylercurtis tadzik: Squaak. It's a tutorial for writing compilers for Parrot.
[particle] i'm rooting for that thread on p6l to make 100 messages. 22:21
tadzik tylercurtis: oh, awesome
[particle] it's at 77 now
masak rakudo: sub a(%p?){%p<a> = 1};a # good catch, Wenzel Peppmeyer! 22:22
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤ in 'a' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Ia1xjFfoxj␤»
tadzik yay, it works. People are finding more and more bugs
cosimo rakudo: my $s = "abc\\r\\n"; say $s.rindex("\\r\\n");
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p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«3␤» 22:22
cosimo rakudo: my $s = "abc\\r\\n"; say $s.rindex("\\r\\n") + 2 == $s.chars; 22:23
tylercurtis [particle]: let me know if it reaches 100 so I know to switch my vote into the Ranges-should-never-produce-a-list camp. :)
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«1␤»
cosimo cool!
rakudo: my &s = sub { say "yay" }; &s->();
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of ->(), ->{} or ->[] as postfix dereferencer; in Perl 6 please use .(), .[] or .{} to deref, or whitespace to delimit a pointy block at line 22, near ");"␤»
cosimo rakudo: my &s = sub { say "yay" }; &s.(); 22:24
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«yay␤»
cosimo super cool!
man, this is surprising!
jnthn [particle]: heh. I gave up reading it long ago. 22:25
pheuter rakudo: sub { say "Hello world" }.()
lue rakudo: sub xyzzy(1) { say "hollow" }; sub xyzzy(2) { say "fool"}; my $a = 1; xyzzy($a);
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub { say "␤»
rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can not re-declare sub &xyzzy without declaring it multi at line 22, near "; my $a = "␤»
[particle] i don't think i've read more than 5 messages in that thread 22:26
i'm just enjoying the show :)
tadzik oh, that will improve our -Ofun
cosimo any $SIG{PIPE} yet?
lue rakudo: multi sub xyzzy(1) { say "hollow" }; multi sub xyzzy(2) { say "fool"}; my $a = 1; xyzzy($a);
tadzik on today's R* celebration we drafted our Perl Mongers group logo: i.imgur.com/8m4cT.png
jnthn lue: multi
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«hollow␤»
tadzik just thought I'll share :)
tylercurtis rakudo: (sub { say "Hello world" }).() # I think this is what you want there, pheuter
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Hello world␤»
pheuter tylercurtis: ah, right 22:27
jnthn tadzik: wow :-)
lue it's my favorite trick, if a bit impractical.
tadzik jnthn: the Siren is a symbol of warsaw :)
tylercurtis rakudo: { say "Hello world" }.() # This may work, too.
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Hello world␤»
pheuter oh, so sub is implicit in anonymous blocks?
tadzik jnthn: anyway, what about DESTDIR? I know I'm nagging, but this is something important in terms of Linux packaging
tylercurtis pheuter: anonymous blocks are blocks instead of subs. Are you familiar with Smalltalk's or Ruby's blocks? 22:28
jnthn tadzik: You seem to be under the impression I know what DESTDIR is. I...kinda don't. :-(
pheuter rakudo: { our $world = "awesome"; }; say $world
tylercurtis: ruby's
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$world' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/7syLEr_oW8:22)␤»
tadzik jnthn: it makes the whole directory tree install not into /, but somewhere else
tylercurtis pheuter: and how in a block, return returns from the enclosing method? 22:29
jnthn tadzik: OK. Does Rakudo handle it correctly?
tadzik jnthn: so you can make DESTDIR=foo install, then make a tarball of foo/ and get a package to install on a linux distro
jnthn: Rakudo yes, R* nope
pheuter tylercurtis: yield ?
jnthn tadzik: Ah, OK
masak 'night, #perl6ers.
jnthn night masak o/
tadzik: That gives me something that works to look at then. :-)
tadzik jnthn: I tried to describe it in GH issues, looks like I failed :) 22:30
that's why I was panicked when I saw R* doesn't handle it properly, it makes it impossible to package it for Linux distros
jnthn :(
22:31 rhebus joined
tylercurtis pheuter: if in Ruby, I did 'def foo; bar = do return 1 end; bar.call; return 2 end" (although bar.call might be the wrong syntax), I think foo would return 1, right? 22:31
jnthn I guess my problem is that I'm about as ignorant about how such things work on Linux as many other Rakudo devs are about making stuff that works on Windows. ;-)
lue Is $_ supposed to function like the Ans variable on some calculators?
sorear tadzik: We're actually still below average for the channel. 22:32
jnthn tadzik: Anyway, I'll try and look at it.
sorear tadzik: I should make some graphs, hmm.
tadzik sorear: You mean Linuxers?
sorear tadzik: I mean #perl6 members
tadzik sorear: I don't get it. People on this channel are not #perl6 members?
pheuter tylercurtis: not sure if you could do that
tadzik jnthn: I'm glad, thank You
jnthn tadzik: Yes, but we've peaked higher than this before. 22:33
sorear 17:17 < tadzik> wow, almost 200% of idlers^Wusers on #perl6 since before R*
You are wrong.
tadzik oh, there used to be more?
lue rakudo: my $a = 3; say $_;
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
tadzik before this audreyt impostor's mess?
sorear Before the channel takeover and every single idler was /kicked on Monday? >200 every day
tylercurtis pheuter: Perl 6's blocks are like that, too. In fact, the blocks in "if $foo {...} else {...}" are conceptually the same thing, a Block, as the block in "my &foo := {...};". As an optimization, they might not actually exist in the compiled code, but they are conceptually there. 22:34
tadzik oh, I see
pheuter hm
tadzik but I remember ~100 today morning
tylercurtis pheuter: well, I think Ruby's blocks are like that. I might be wrong. I know Smalltalk's are(from which Ruby steals many things).
But I'm right about Perl 6's. 22:35
pheuter right, k. Btw, what should the primary method do?
cosimo rakudo: my &s = sub ($str) { say "oh hai $str" }; &s.(); 22:36
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/B54wQgq5BB␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/B54wQgq5BB␤»
tylercurtis pheuter: it's in the solution for Exercise 2. It just does "make $<identifier>.ast;".
pheuter $<identifier>.ast ?
right
k
cosimo rakudo: my &s = sub ($str) { say "oh hai $str" }; &s.("rakudo*");
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«oh hai rakudo*␤»
tadzik hmm. Any idea why the freshly-cloned git repo is smaller than the one you are using and commiting for some time? 22:38
squeeky no crap left over. git gc cleans up repos that get unnecessarily fat. 22:40
davidfetter i's phat, yo 22:41
tadzik hmm, one of my repo got 1.6 MB from 5.3 after git gc, but still, the freshly cloned has ~500 KB
but the objects are packed, as far as I can see
squeeky gc --prune?
22:42 skyheights joined
avuserow there are depth and window options for git gc. I forgot what they do, but you can be more aggressive with compression using them somehow 22:42
tadzik no changes.
but as far as I can see, the freshly cloned repo has object files packed
pheuter parrot should be banned. It makes language and compile design a steal! The process is becoming too fun and easy :( 22:43
compiler*
shirtless I want to see perl6 compile to dalvik bytecode
cosimo rakudo: my $str = 'abracadabra'; $str.substr(0, 6, ""); say $str;
shirtless so I can write android apps with it
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'substr'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu : Any $start, Any $length?;; *%_)␤␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/AO4LrkdLtE␤»
shirtless If only I had the skills. 22:44
cosimo rakudo: my $str = 'abracadabra'; $str.substr(0, 6) = '';
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/3hmOPUFQQt␤»
shirtless Does perl6 have anything like python's dir()? 22:45
tadzik shirtless: how about dir()?
jnthn shirtless: Does that return a list of fires in a directory?
er, files
:-)
tadzik sorry, I had to. LOL
shirtless tadzik, jnthn: no
tadzik oh
jnthn Ah
shirtless tadzik, jnthn: it lists the attrs of an object
cosimo rakudo: my $str = 'abracadabra'; substr($str, 0, 6) = '';
jnthn Then the Perl 6 dir("foo") doesn't do that 22:46
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/AUncGNrZPh␤»
jnthn shirtless: Oh
cosimo rakudo: my $str = 'abracadabra'; substr($str, 0, 6) = ''; say $str;
tadzik shirtless: attrs?
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/QoOzsp61pk␤»
shirtless attributes
tadzik yeah, I know. What attrs?
shirtless basically all methods and public variables anything like that
jnthn rakudo: class Foo { has $!x; has $!y; } Foo.^attributes>>.name>>.say
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "class Foo "␤»
jnthn gah
rakudo: class Foo { has $!x; has $!y; }; Foo.^attributes>>.name>>.say
tadzik oh
shirtless: ^methods?
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«$!x␤$!y␤»
shirtless tadzik: thats it!
thanks
tadzik rakudo: "a string".^methods
pff
jnthn tadzik: .^methods gets the methods, .^attributes gets the attributes
tadzik rakudo: "a string".^methods.join(' ').say
p6eval rakudo da16b5: ( no output ) 22:47
rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Str Int pred Bool encode succ Num perl ACCEPTS WHICH chomp index ceiling cotanh comb unpolar trim-trailing atan ord acos eval chop tanh atanh cosec chars roots uc lines ucfirst substr from-radians tan log10 cos bytes fmt pred acosec sinh asinh Numeric cosech asec trim chr
..trim-lead…
tadzik jnthn: oh, useful
didn't know about ^attributes
jnthn shirtless: .^ means "do a call on the metaclass"
tadzik shirtless: you're welcome
Tene rakudo: "a string".^methods(:local).perl.say
jnthn shirtless: Rather than just a call on the object.
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }]␤»
Tene rakudo: "a string".^methods(:local).join(' ').say
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS perl WHICH Str Int pred Bool encode succ Num␤»
cosimo rakudo: my $str = 'abracadabra'; $str = $str.substr(6); say $str;
tadzik someone's alredy asking about distributing Perl 6 modules on @perl6-users
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«dabra␤» 22:48
tadzik awesome
shirtless jnthn, tadzik: thanks
tadzik shirtless: curiosity, nothing deep. Are You on Windows or Linux, or something else? 22:49
shirtless tadzik: I am always on both linux and windows, at any given time.
tadzik shirtless: virtualization, or remote shell accounts? 22:50
shirtless tadzik: neither?
jnthn shirtless: Heh, sounds like me, apart from my main use for Linux is "run irssi and screen" :-)
tadzik shirtless: come on, feed my curiosity :)
shirtless tadzik: i have a p4 dell running arch linux, an amd athlon dual core running ubuntu and windows 7 dual boot, and a VPS with ubuntu 22:51
i also have an android phone
that's it for my computing power
tadzik I see
shirtless what's your setup?
tadzik pardon my nagging, but what are You using R* on, now?
jnthn shirtless: Did you try the Windows MSI, or build it yourself, out of curiosity?
tadzik shirtless: Linuxes everywhere, Ubuntu on the desktop, CRUX on my laptop
shirtless jnthn: i installed the windows msi and it worked well. Right now I'm reading the book and I built my own perl6 on ubuntu 22:52
tadzik: I think I'm going to try to write a disk space analyzer with it.
tadzik: which is why I need stat()
heh.
tadzik :)
jnthn shirtless: Thanks. I can see a lot of downloads of the MSI, but you're only like the second or third person I've found who's tried it, so good to know it works. :-)
tadzik shirtless: I wanted it for File::Find. First I thought about calling Parrot opcodes, then about File::Stat, then about putting it in Rakudo core :) 22:53
high I had a good build from R* source on my G5 (PPC) today. The MSI was good on XP SP3 32-bit.
shirtless after I'm done playing around on ubuntu I'll try writing some stuff on it.
jnthn high: Thanks, good to know. :-)
shirtless definitely a good idea to make it available
tadzik shirtless: You may probably want File::Find too, for this disk space analyzer
shirtless i don't really know how to program with parrot opcodes :)
tadzik it took about 10 minutes for me to call a single one succesfully :P 22:54
(and I still don't know how it works, but shhh!)
jnthn tadzik: Magic!
;-)
Tene rakudo: pir::say('OHAI');
tadzik jnthn: seems so :)
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«OHAI␤»
tadzik Tene: well, that's the part I know. _But_
tylercurtis jnthn: what prerequisites does the MSI have? I'm thinking about installing it on my Windows install sometime. :) 22:55
tadzik parrot docs say that the result will be written to the first arg passed to the opcode. In rakudo, we do $res = pir::foobar_isi(foo,bar) and it's ok
tadzik confused
jnthn tadzik: pir::foo syntax is actually syntax sugar 22:56
tylercurtis tadzik: The PAST->POST compiler handles the putting the result in the right place.
jnthn tadzik: It makes the PIR op call look like a function call.
tylercurtis: Right.
tylercurtis: The MSI has no pre-reqs that I'm aware of.
tadzik I see
jnthn tylercurtis: It's also missing a few bits though.
tadzik thanks, jnthn and tylercurtis
jnthn tylercurtis: It's kinda the best I could come up with in the time I had to hand.
(Which wasn't an awful lot.) 22:57
tylercurtis jnthn: More specifically, do I need to have some version of Perl 5, a C compiler, etc. installed already?
tadzik
.oO( it's harder to tab-complete nicks now, after the incoming of users )
jnthn tylercurtis: No
tylercurtis: Well, Blizkost has no chance of working without a Perl 5 version installed somewhere.
tylercurtis: But if you just want Perl 6, just the MSI should be fine.
tylercurtis: Let me know if you find otherwise.
tylercurtis jnthn: I have Strawberry Perl, I think, so it probably wouldn't have been a problem either way. 22:59
jnthn Anyway, I'll gladly take suggestions/bug reports on the MSI, so I can do better on the next one. :-) 23:00
tadzik I think I'll install this msi, just out of curiosity on my virtualized Windows 23:02
good excuse to run it anyway :)
ha-ha! 23:03
RMS: I spend most of my time travelling, so I could not have any pets.
If it were possible, I would like to have a friendly parrot.
:)
23:03 eternaleye joined
cosimo rakudo: my $c='x'; if $c ~~ <a b c> { say 'included' } 23:04
p6eval rakudo da16b5: ( no output )
cosimo rakudo: my $c='x'; if $c ~~ <a x c> { say 'included' }
p6eval rakudo da16b5: ( no output )
cosimo rakudo: my $c='x'; if $c ~~ [<a x c>] { say 'included' }
p6eval rakudo da16b5: ( no output )
cosimo rakudo: my $c='x'; if $c ~~ ('a','x','c') { say 'included' }
p6eval rakudo da16b5: ( no output ) 23:05
davidfetter cosimo, perl6 is packaged for fedora, if you're using that 23:08
cosimo davidfetter: thanks, but I'm using debian 23:10
sorear ok, after a bit of p5regex kludgery I now have a 40,000 line data file, 2 columns, fractional days since 2007/01/01, #users in #perl6
sorear wonders how to make a pretty picture out of this and share it
tadzik davidfetter: what Perl 6, Rakudo Star maybe?
sorear (or maybe I should try to get a copy of the ilbot2 logs, since they're bound to be much more complete?) 23:11
cosimo rakudo: my $x = "awesomest"; say $x.chop.chop;
p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«awesome␤»
davidfetter tadzik, yes, that one :)
tadzik davidfetter: oh. Is the build process visible, so I can look at it? :) 23:12
davidfetter perl6 --version
This is Rakudo Perl 6, version 2010.06 built on parrot 2.6.0
Copyright 2008-2010, The Perl Foundation
build process? it's in the SRPM, i suppose
tadzik nah, does not look like a Star
Rakudo 2010.07 is even in CRUX :)
but I found Star impossible to package, hence my curiosity
davidfetter checks out what's going on in #fedora-devel 23:13
tadzik they have easier life, they can just install it and collect the files from the filesystem and put it in a tarball :) 23:14
davidfetter hrm?
sorear tadzik: packaging star = doing it wrong 23:15
star *is* a package
if you have your own package system, you should be packaging rakudo, not star
(also Parrot, and a few modules, and a book) 23:16
tadzik sorear: nah, I think you miss the point. Imho the point is to make Star available to install from a package manager, so it can be tracked by it. 23:17
so one can do
davidfetter fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Rakudo_Star
tadzik sudo apt-get rakudo-star, or something, and have a working Perl 6
Rakudo Star, at this point, is impossible to install elsewhere than into the filesystem directly, with root permissions 23:18
shirtless What is the appropriate convention for naming a perl6 file? .p6? .pl? 23:19
tadzik .pl
shirtless cool
I got enough knowledge now to start writing
thanks for your help guys
tadzik thank You :)
shirtless perl6 came a real long way since i tried it last
davidfetter there's even a postgres embedding: pl.parrot.org/ 23:20
23:20 Casan joined
jnthn is excited by all the Perl 6 stuff going on :-) 23:20
davidfetter well, one click from there
jnthn ...and that it's YAPC::Europe in just a few days time! \\o/ 23:21
tadzik Europe, but far :(
shirtless There is going to be a race to see who can build a good web framework
tadzik there is Web.pm, which, I think, is supposed to be /the one to rule them all/ 23:22
and mberends++ is porting Dancer I think
shirtless cool
but does it rival things like Rails?
or Django?
tadzik dunno
Dancer is rather like Sinatra
shirtless I'll check it out
jnthn And there's github.com/supernovus/ww6 23:23
davidfetter rails is not competition to anything but php
tadzik I don't use this Big Frameworks, so I don't know really
shirtless I was about to learn ruby but I think I'd rather feel like part of an exclusive club.
Ruby is getting really popular now.. It's going to be the next PHP
tadzik Dancer was the reason I stopped hating web development, so I like it :)
shirtless except it is a much better language
23:23 whiteknight joined
davidfetter with tadzik on this. by the time you've built something big, you've done your own framework 23:23
tadzik oh, I think most Rubyists are people who couldn't wait for Perl 6
shirtless I missed the boat on ruby.
tadzik and they say Ruby's slow, so it has almost no advantages about Perl 6 anyway :P 23:24
23:24 [1]Casan joined
jferrero Google Trends show no more Perl 6 trends 23:24
tadzik how about Rakudo? 23:25
shirtless jferrero: that will change soon, the hacker news article will bring people in
it got me
Tene shirtless: and we're glad to have you. :) 23:26
tylercurtis tadzik: why can't R* be packaged?
tadzik tylercurtis: DESTDIR is broken. You can't install it into a directory and then make a tarball of it 23:27
23:27 Casan joined
tadzik how often is proto.perl6.org updated? 23:28
jferrero I need the URL of Perl 6 book... 23:32
sorear github.com/perl6/book 23:34
tadzik is the new one alredy there?
looks like yes, a'right
tylercurtis Aww. :( It seems slashdot couldn't keep up the trend of the R * comment threads not being filled with trolling and disparaging remarks. 23:36
cotto_work oh noes 23:37
tadzik ...I never liked this slashdot thing ;)
jferrero sorear++ 23:38
tadzik am I the only one having the impression that it's mostly Pythonists that are trolling? If You could see how I've been attacked by Pythonists on todays LUG while talking about Rakudo and Perl 6… 23:39
jnthn /. can often be like that. 23:42
Sometimes a story attracts comments worth reading, but many don't.
sorear tadzik: You're getting "attacked" at a flesh meeting? Is that as bad as it sounds? D: 23:45
tadzik sorear: flesh meeting?
jnthn sorear: flesh as in meatspace? :-)
tadzik I don't get it, looks like the joke is not language-portable :P 23:46
jnthn is confused by all this terminology about meeting people offline
tadzik it was a linux users' group meeting
my perl vs python propagande image helped a bit :)
sorear jnthn: Yes, I don't use the concept often enough to remember the normal terms.,
tadzik oh, you mean meeting in real-life? :) 23:47
sorear: no, it was mostly just a verbal trolling :)
sorear tadzik: anyways "attacked" + "LUG", I'm currently imagining pythonistas with crowbars confronting you in a back alley
tadzik verbal, as in speaking through your mouth
lue afk
sorear oh good.
23:47 kid51 joined
jnthn sorear: lol :-) 23:48
perigrin sorear: pythonistas dont' use crowbars ... lispers use crowbars ... pythonistas use a battle axe or halberd ... something with some significant whitespace. 23:49
tadzik :D:D
23:50 whee joined
kid51 Have built rakudo star on two Linux/i386 boxes so far 23:50
Building (slowly) on Darwin/PPC
kid51 wonders ...
This took up much capacity on my Linode. 23:51
tadzik kid51: congratulations :)
kid51 To what extent can I say 'make clean' after I've installed?
e.g., can I say 'make clean' in the parrot-2.6.0 directory after I've installed perl6? 23:53
tadzik after installed? After it being installed you can remove the whole build directory I think 23:55
high kid51: make clean in parrot-2.6.0/ worked for me on OXS 10.5 PPC just fine after R* install was done 23:56
23:57 masonkramer joined, hercynium joined 23:58 Psyche^ joined
tylercurtis kid51: it might not. 23:58
kid51: if I make clean, I get PBC version problems.

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