»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Set by moderator on 4 August 2010.
00:18 colomon joined
colomon afk but back from vacation! 00:19
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cognominal is Nil supposed to be defined? I have been bitten by something lile 00:59
rakudo: class A {}; say A.?a // "printed if Nil notdefined" 01:00
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«␤»
cognominal I can used anyway but that surprised me 01:01
I meant, " I can use ||" 01:02
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lkk- does perl6 have Array.scan method ? 01:09
tylercurtis lkk-: what do you want Array.scan to do? 01:10
rakudo: say ([\\*] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5).join(', ') 01:11
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«1, 2, 6, 24, 120␤»
lkk- tylercurtis: like ruby's , [1,2,3,4,5,6].scan(/../) => got [1,2],[3,4],[5,6] 01:12
Tene lkk-: Not all of us are familiar with Ruby.
lkk-: What do you want to do that for, exactly?
tylercurtis looks up ruby's scan.
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lkk- Tene: ok 01:12
Tene: just ask 01:13
Tene rakudo: say (1..6).map({[$^a,$^b]}).perl
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«([1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6])␤»
Tene you can do it like that.
lkk-: I ask, because some things in Perl 6 will do that for you.
rakudo: for 1..6 -> $a, $b { say "$a -- $b" }
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«1 -- 2␤3 -- 4␤5 -- 6␤» 01:14
lkk- Tene: thank you , I see
Tene map, for, etc. will accept as many parameters as their arity.
tylercurtis lkk-: is there an Array.scan method in ruby? I get a NoMethod error running your example code with ruby 1.8.6 01:16
lkk- tylercurtis: sorry , that have String.scan
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tylercurtis lkk-: so, "123456".scan(/../) should be ["12", "34", "56"]? 01:19
lkk- tylercurtis: yes , ruby just has String.scan , 'abcd'.scan(/../) => ["ab", "cd"]
tylercurtis star: say "123456".comb(/../).perl
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«("12", "34", "56")␤»
lkk- tylercurtis: comb , yes thank you
rcfox What's the purpose of Str.indent? 01:24
perlcabal.org/syn/S32/Str.html#indent
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rcfox Oh, I guess it might be useful for printing tree, or something. 01:25
I just had this image of people trying to pretty print code with it. 01:26
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melte is module importing NYI? as in: perl6 -e 'use Benchmark <timethis>' 01:44
star: use Benchmark <timethis>; # modules packaged with the bot? 01:45
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Benchmark' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval/rakudo-star-2010.07/install/lib/parrot/2.6.0/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
melte :(
tylercurtis rakudo: use Test; plan 5; ok 1, 'testing'; is 4, 5; lives_ok { &*foo(); }; dies_ok { die 1; }; nok False; 01:48
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«1..5␤ok 1 - testing␤not ok 2 - ␤# got: '4'␤# expected: '5'␤not ok 3 - ␤ok 4 - ␤ok 5 - ␤# Looks like you failed 2 tests of 5␤»
sorear module importing? NYI? Absolutely not 01:50
melte I mean...importing subs/variables, which does not work for me in the above case 01:51
sorear rcfox: It was designed by me for printing code, yes
rcfox: extracted from viv 01:52
rcfox viv?
sorear melte: explicit import lists don't work
rcfox: the 6->5 converter
colomon star: use Benchmark;
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Benchmark' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval/rakudo-star-2010.07/install/lib/parrot/2.6.0/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
colomon star: use benchmark; 01:53
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'benchmark' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval/rakudo-star-2010.07/install/lib/parrot/2.6.0/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
melte hm. what is the package syntax for direct access, like perl5 Benchmark::timethis ?
tylercurtis Benchmark::timethis?
rcfox sorear: Only using spaces seems rather narrow-minded. That's probably going to sound offensive, but I couldn't think of a nicer way of saying it.
colomon Rakudo doesn't have a p6 Benchmark module. Is it in R*?
rcfox colomon: I don't seem to have it. 01:54
sorear rcfox: indent is designed to do everything I need and nothing I don't
melte colomon: from modules.perl6.org, I'm playing/fixing my benchmarking
rcfox sorear: So then why is it in the spec?
sorear rcfox: I didn't need to indent code with asterisks then. If you do, submit a RFC on p6l
rcfox: Ask TimToady 01:55
He's the one who pushed to move it into the spec
rcfox :\\
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mantovani guys hi 01:56
I download rakudo, and when I try do "perl6 --help" I get, 01:57
nopaste ?
paste?
don't have bot :(
nopaste.snit.ch/22656
the error ^ 01:58
or perl6 help, perl6 h
melte tylercurtis: is that's an answer (and not a question), it also doesn't work atm 02:00
tylercurtis melte: if there's a timethis sub in Benchmark, it should.
rcfox melte: Does 'use Benchmark' work? 02:01
melte rcfox: yes, silly :p 02:02
rcfox Just making sure...
melte $ perl6 -e 'use Benchmark; timethis(1, sub {}); Benchmark::timethis(1, sub {})'
$ perl6 -e 'use Benchmark; timethis(1, sub {}); Benchmark::timethis(1, sub {})'Can not find sub Benchmark::timethis
hm, weird paste 02:03
rcfox Is timethis declared with 'is export' ?
melte github.com/perlpilot/benchmark/blob...chmark.pm6 for reference
yes
rcfox Hm. 02:04
sorear Is timethis declared with 'our'?
melte no
sorear then Benchmark::timethis won't work.
melte okay, thanks
rcfox Why is that? 02:05
melte and in theory if explicit imports worked, I could make that happen?
sorear melte: Why can't you just use "timethis"?
melte with something like: use Benchmark :OUR<timethis>
sorear: I can. was just trying to figure out if I could call a different non-exported sub 02:06
sorear melte: non-exported subs are completely private unless declared our
you can't even request them with import lists 02:07
melte okay
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[particle] melte: read synopsis 11 for more details 02:20
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melte [particle]: thanks, I was browsing it 02:26
it'd be hard to find another resource anywhere, at the moment, that would explain the syntax for importation 02:28
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rcfox rakudo: my @arr = ([1,0],[0,1]); say @arr.perl; my @temp = @arr[1]; @arr[1] = @arr[0]; @arr[0] = @temp; @arr.perl; say @arr.perl; 04:28
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«[[1, 0], [0, 1]]␤[[[0, 1]], [1, 0]]␤»
rcfox Why's it doing this? 04:29
And how do I fix it?
sorear Why's it doing what?
Oh
rcfox It's got another level of indirection on @arr[0]
sorear You need to change @temp to $temp 04:30
@arr[1] is being treated as a single list item, so assigning it to @temp promoted it to a one-element list
rcfox Oh, I see.
Thanks. 04:31
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rcfox rakudo: my @arr = 1..5; @arr »+=» 1; say @arr 04:45
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in <anon> at line 204:CORE.setting␤ in 'hyper' at line 1␤ in 'hyper' at line 211:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
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dalek ecza: c11c833 | sorear++ | (4 files):
Rebuild regex engine using gather/take and coroutines
 05:15
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alester Thanks, moritz++ perlbuzz.com/2010/08/im-glad-to-hea...-slow.html 05:54
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dalek ecza: 6773107 | sorear++ | Kernel.cs:
Fix recursive gather/take
 06:06
ecza: 8ea4ced | sorear++ | (4 files):
Implement <foo> and <.foo> in regexes
melte I wonder how much overall speed improvement will come from isolated changes. like it seems generating and/or assigning lists/ranges is really slow (my @a = ^10000) 06:09
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melte most of the slowness in my code is using for loops like that, 10x slower than while or loop 06:11
sorear that's not much of a suprise 06:13
there's a lot of overhead in the lazy list system
melte nods
moritz_ good morning 06:20
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sorear hello moritz 06:24
(hmm. given that I have source position annotations and $?ORIG already, I wonder how hard it would be to add Code.Str) 06:25
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masak good morning, #perl6. 06:45
sorear hello masak 06:46
I finally got subrules working in niecza
masak great.
sorear: can you backtrack into a subrule?
[backlog] cognominal is surprised over A.?a // "fallback" not working as Least Surprise expects. we need to do something about this. 06:47
sorear masak: not only can you, but you must! ratcheting is NYI 06:49
masak mantovani: thanks for making us aware of this. I will submit a ticket about it, and it'll hopefully get fixed for the next release.
masak submits rakudobug about 'perl6 --help' not working
what mechanism re-awakens a subrule that has already returned a Match? 06:52
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masak sorear: ^ 06:55
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sorear masak: a subrule looks like sub subrule($c) { gather ... lots and lots of loops ... { take $newc } } 07:29
masak: re-awakening is just shifting off another cursor
masak ooh, nice. 07:30
cognominal rakudo: my @a; say @a?[0].perl 07:32
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say @a?[0]"␤»
masak cognominal: only methods. 07:33
cognominal too bad.
masak cognominal: why? .[] already DTRT.
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masak as does .{} 07:33
cognominal Can I chain it? 07:34
masak yes.
cognominal rakudo: my @a; say @a?[0].?a
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say @a?[0]"␤»
cognominal oops
rakudo: my @a; say @a[0].?a
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«␤»
cognominal ok, cool
rakudo: my @a; say @a[0].perl 07:35
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Any␤»
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rcfox Use of uninitialized value in numeric context 07:55
I wish it would tell me where or what. :\\
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masak rcfox: do you have a golfed example? 07:55
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sorear niecza: my $x; say $x + 2 07:55
p6eval niecza 8ea4ced: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤ at Niecza.Kernel.UnboxDO (Niecza.DynObject o) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤ at Niecza.Kernel.UnboxAny (IP6 o) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤ at
..SAFE.Infix_46C (Ni…
rcfox masak: Not really... 07:56
rakudo: my $x; say $x + 2 07:57
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤2␤»
sorear rakudo++
rcfox Hm, it still tries to evaluate it... That's... annoying...
sorear on the other hand, maybe you would have preferred the crash with full backtrace niecza gives :p 07:58
rcfox Indeed.
How does this --trace flag work? 07:59
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sorear try perl6 --trace=4 -e '2+2' 08:01
rcfox Oh boy...
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sorear Then you'll love --trace=1 08:03
rcfox :P
sorear rakudo: class Foo { method a:baz {}; method b:!cow {}; method c:sym<baz> {}; method d:foo<a b> {}; }; say Foo.^methods(:local).Str 08:07
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«c:sym<baz> b:!cow d:foo<a b> a:baz␤»
sorear rakudo: class Foo { method a:baz['x','y'] {}; method b:foo< a > {}; }; say Foo.^methods(:local).Str 08:08
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«a:baz['x','y'] b:foo< a >␤»
sorear :/
moritz_ sorear: btw it seems that niecza automatic rebuild now works
sorear moritz_++ !
moritz_ the order of PATH entries was different on interactive shell and cron, so the cron script would pick up a perl with some missing modules 08:09
sorear yow. 08:10
moritz_ star: my @array = ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ); 08:18
p6eval star 2010.07: ( no output )
moritz_ star: my @array = ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ); say "a: @array[]"
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«a: 1 2 3 4␤»
moritz_ star: my @array = ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ); say "a: @array.sort()" 08:20
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«a: 1 2 3 4␤»
sorear What does method ::foo {} mean? 08:22
Or is it a semantic error I should sorry on?
cono std: say "a: @(3, 2, 1).sort()"
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
cono rakudo: say "a: @(3, 2, 1).sort()" 08:23
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«a: 1 2 3␤»
moritz_ sorear: I have no idea :(
sorear adds a not understood #XXX 08:24
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squeeky good morning, channel. 08:25
moritz_ good morning squeeky
cono squeeky: morning 08:26
moritz_ iirc you were happy in the backlog... did you managed to fix R* packaging?
squeeky yes. I'm now waiting for it to be included in.
github.com/mxcl/homebrew/issues/issue/2122 btw.
moritz_ what did you need to change to make it run? 08:28
squeeky stop using rakudo's bootstrap of parrot and just use parrot as a separate dep.
moritz_ sounds sane for packaging
btw www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=853975 more Perl 6 questions on perlmonks :-) 08:29
sorear might need to rephrase a few of these error messages for the 1.0 release 08:33
$M->sorry('Defining a non-our sub with a package-qualified name makes no sense');
mathw moritz_: nice, a sensible question too
moritz_: and your answer is a masterpiece of clarity and elegance
moritz_ thanks 08:34
sorear: I plan to work on unifying (and objectifying) error messages anyway
ie a catalog of error messages, and have them wrapped in objects to make them introspectable 08:35
and with i18n hooks etc.
rcfox Blah. 08:36
moritz_ blah?
rcfox I seem to have a choice between infinite recursion and undefined values.
sorear moritz_: unifying across all compilers? 08:37
moritz_ not good
sorear: yes 08:39
sorear: and in the test suite
sorear: I want something that can easily be smart-matched against
something like when X::CompileTime & X::Fatal { ... } maybe 08:40
sorear moritz_: one spec change I'd really like to see is for eval to stop catching exceptions 08:41
moritz_ sorear: me too
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cono rakudo: say "a: @(3 2 1).sort()" 08:46
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse circumfix:sym<sigil>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
rcfox Woo, I got it to work! 08:49
It's kinda dumb that you need to use temporary variables...
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rcfox rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2} does n; my $b = {3} does n; my $c = {$a*$b} does n; $a = {1+$c}; say $a(); 08:51
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1757:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1758:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<*>' at line 6581:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/7LebBuEuxI␤ in 'Num' at line 22:/tmp/7LebBuEuxI␤ in
..'Cool::Num…
moritz_ rakudo: my %h = a => 1, b => 2; say "%h{}"
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
rcfox rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2} does n; my $b = {3} does n; my $c = {$a*$b} does n; $a = {1+$c} does n; say $a();
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤ in 'Num' at line 22:/tmp/R4XlUYMgzl␤ in 'Num' at line 22:/tmp/R4XlUYMgzl␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1757:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1758:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<+>' at line 6581:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line
..22:/tmp/R4XlUYMg…
rcfox On one hand, it makes sense. Obviously, there's a recursive circle there. 08:52
On the other hand, why can't I tell it that I mean to use a different reference?
rakudo: my $a = {2}; say $a; $a = {$a+1}; say $a; 08:53
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«_block112␤_block134␤»
rcfox See, they're different blocks. 08:54
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sorear {2} does n is an error 08:55
rcfox Why?
sorear because {2} is not a modifiable lvalue 08:56
the operator you seem to want is "but"
rcfox does works though.
rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2} does n; say $a+1; 08:57
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«3␤»
sorear rakudo doesn't implement rw-checking completely
rcfox rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2} but n; say $a+1;
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«3␤»
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cono rcfox: {2} <- block here? 08:59
sorear {2} does n, iiuc, applies n to all Block instances
rcfox rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2} does n; my $b = {3}; say $b+1; 09:00
cono: Yes.
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1757:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1758:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<+>' at line 6581:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/gndvOWs7d5␤»
09:00 Axius joined
cono not for all blocks 09:00
rcfox rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2}; my $b = {3} does n; say $a+1; 09:01
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1757:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1758:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<+>' at line 6581:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/DzI1ogPBLJ␤» 09:02
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sorear rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2}; my $b = $a does n; say $a + 1; 09:03
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«3␤»
sorear rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2}; my $b = $a but n; say $a + 1;
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1757:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1758:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<+>' at line 6581:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/qFdxqFTI6s␤»
cono rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = {2}; my $b = $a but n; say $b + 1; 09:04
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«3␤»
cono Ah, I got the "but" keyword :) 09:05
rcfox rakudo: my $a = 1 but n; say $a +1
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &n␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/7BOQ5duBWZ␤»
rcfox Whoops.
rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = 1 but n; say $a +1 09:06
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«2␤»
rcfox Hm.
If nothing else, but is more convenient.
rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = 1 does n; say $a +1
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«2␤»
rcfox ...
rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = 1; $a does n; say $a +1
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«2␤»
rcfox What.
This is been complaining to me in my code... 09:07
moritz_ note that + used the Numeric method, not Num
rcfox Oh.
dalek ok: 7875129 | moritz++ | src/basics.pod:
[basics] be more verbose about interpolation of arrays and hashes; more examples
rcfox rakudo: role n { method Numeric { self.(); }}; my $a = 1; $a does n; say $a +1
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«2␤»
rcfox :\\
rakudo: role n { method Numeric { self.(); } method Num { self.(); }}; my $a = 1; $a does n; say $a +1 09:08
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
rcfox Bah!
moritz_ though it might not work for numbers at all
why would you coerce a number to Numeric after all?
rcfox Well, it would complain to me if I tried to give an Integer a Num() method.
sorear you're also assuming that numbers are Perl 6 objects
which is not 100% true yet
there's still a bit of backdoor dealing with parrot-level operators 09:09
rcfox rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my Int $a = 1; $a does n;
sorear someone else probably knows the rules in more detail
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: ( no output )
rcfox rakudo: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my Int $a = 1; $a does n; say $a+1;
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«2␤»
rcfox star: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my Int $a = 1; $a does n; say $a+1;
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«2␤»
rcfox star: role n { method Num { self.(); }}; my Num $a = 1; $a does n; say $a+1; 09:10
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/BxF98_6Ux6␤»
sorear std: $::::Foo
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 112m␤»
sorear I don't think that should be legal
cono rakudo: role n { method Num { self.() - 1; }}; my Num $a = 5; $a does n; say $a+1;
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/8gKScd1DI3␤»
cono rakudo: role n { method Num { self.() - 1; }}; my $a = 5; $a does n; say $a+1; 09:11
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«6␤»
cono rakudo: role n { method Numeric { self.() - 1; }}; my $a = 5; $a does n; say $a+1;
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«6␤»
rcfox That's odd...
Oh.
Er. 09:12
Blah, formatting output from Octave for comparison in my tests is a pain. 09:15
moritz_ are you doing matrixy stuff?
rcfox Yep. 09:16
moritz_ did you see colomon's Vector module?
rcfox I looked at it, but mine thing is special. ;) 09:17
moritz_ ok
rcfox Also, he does weird stuff with fixed sizes. :x 09:18
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masak today's autopun from jonasbn. twitter.com/jonasbn/status/20780159951 09:19
rcfox Heh.
moritz_ :-)
arnsholt XD 09:20
masak cono++ # encouraging me to think about pack/unpack with github.com/cono/p6-pack-unpack 09:22
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moritz_ phenny: tell jnthn could you maybe take a look at www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=853113 ? seems to be an MSI installier issue 09:32
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
masak gm
moritz_: how do you manage to keep track of perlmonks all the time? is there a feed?
moritz_ masak: I'm currently going through "Seekers of Perl Wisdom". Usually I update the "Newest Nodes" a few times a day 09:33
masak ok. wow.
szbalint yeah, dedication :) 09:36
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cono masak: I guess sub pack must have prototype: Str, List? 09:42
masak um. possible confusion of terms detected.
do you mean a subroutine signature?
cono masak: yeah :) 09:43
masak cono: it's all in S32/Str. you really should look there.
cono masak: okie
masak our buf8 multi pack( *@items where { @items »~~» Pair })
our buf8 multi pack( Str $template, *@items )
moritz_ where { [&&] @items »~~» Pair } # no? 09:44
otherwise it just evalutes a list of bools for truthness 09:45
rcfox moritz_: Here's what my matrix class can do, with an example of forward kinematics from my robotics course. gist.github.com/516995 09:46
cono Every item of array is a Pair?
moritz_ rcfox: cool
masak moritz_: oh, you're right. fixing.
rcfox It's probably going to be really slow in the long run though. :P 09:47
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pugssvn r31937 | masak++ | [S32/Str] fixed thinko in &pack signature 09:47
r31937 |
r31937 | Spotted by moritz++
dolmen \\o/ 09:48
moritz_ o/ 09:49
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cono masak: don't see > and < specifiers 10:03
10:04 tadzik joined
tadzik o/ 10:04
masak cono: good point. what are those?
tadzik! \\o/
cono masak: force big or little endians
masak huh. 10:05
the more I learn about &pack, the more I realize we have to take this one piece at a time :)
sorear I love the way perl 5 will Str-ify array refs without warning. Not.
moritz_ you can bless them, and emit a warning in the overloaded stringification method :-) 10:06
cono masak: iiuc grammar not apply to this kind "(ccc)@23"
masak cono: looks to me it does. 10:07
cono masak: it means to null-fill group (ccc) to 23 bytes
masak cono: it'd divide it into one <group> and one <specifier> <count>
cono: so it sees two <template>s. 10:08
cono ah, yeah, sorry
masak: (c)[s] is parse like (c) <- group [s <- specifier ] ? 10:10
masak no, the [s] would parse as <count> 10:11
which would contain a <specifier>.
cono masak: perl -e 'print pack("(cc)[@]", 10, 10, 10)' 10:12
oha are the spec to port the pack as it was in perl5? or are the pack going to get only something from p5? 10:15
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moritz_ a 1:1 port doesn't make sense, if you ask me 10:17
because the languages are too different
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moritz_ speaking of output formatting... I kinda yearn for a printf with named parameters 10:18
which would make much sense in the context of error messages, for example
masak sushi &
moritz_ different languages might need to access the information to be included in error messages in different order
sorear that's been part of ISO sprintf for a couple years 10:19
moritz_ do you know the syntax for it?
sorear perl6: printf "%2$d %1$d\\n", 5, 10 10:20
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$d' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/J0fc7L8ZCF:22)␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Undeclared variable: ("$d",MkPad (padToList [("$_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Scalar"), pe_proto = <Scalar:0x2b09f2a6f4e9>, pe_flags = MkEntryFlags {ef_isContext = True}, pe_store = <ref:0x2b09f2a6f3b1>}),("@_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Array"), pe_proto = <Array:0x2b09f…
moritz_ sorear: that's positional, not named
sorear perl6: printf "%2\\$d %1\\$d\\n", 5, 10
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: ( no output )
..pugs: OUTPUT«pugs: Printf.printf: bad formatting char $␤»
sorear moritz_: the "in different order" part through me off, sorry
moritz_ though we might generalize the syntax to %varname$format 10:21
sorear in any case I wonder if there is a more quintessentially Perl way to do formats 10:22
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oha moritz_, as i were speaking with masak, i see that pack is a single total operation, but it could be nice to use the Buf item as a fifo, where you can push and shift things 10:23
sorear besides eval "\\"$format\\""
dalek ecza: 4ecd8ab | sorear++ | (5 files):
Overhaul handling of names; make &infix:<+> and leading double colons work
oha rakudo: sub foo (&code(Str)) { code("foo"); }; foo( -> Str $s { say $s; }); 10:33
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1 in sub-signature of parameter &code␤ in 'foo' at line 22:/tmp/driIJrsAM5␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/driIJrsAM5␤»
oha rakudo: sub foo (&code(Str)) { code("foo"); }; foo(sub (Str $s) { say $s; }); 10:34
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1 in sub-signature of parameter &code␤ in 'foo' at line 22:/tmp/rmYK3mLftX␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/rmYK3mLftX␤»
oha why?
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kaare_ moritz_: Your blog post has a bad <a> tag 10:50
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tadzik masak: hmm, shouldn't ufo/pls/whatever install pod files too, not only pm/pm6? 10:57
oha rakudo: my %h; %h{'oo'} = 3; my $m = "foo bar" ~~ /o./; say %h{$m};
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤ in 'Block::count' at line 5621:CORE.setting␤ in 'Block::count' at line 5625:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::postcircumfix:<{ }>' at line 1␤ in <anon> at line 1␤ in 'Any::postcircumfix:<{ }>' at line 1␤ in <anon> at line 1␤ in
..'Any::postcircumfix:<{ }…
10:58 M_o_C joined
oha rakudo: my %h; %h{'oo'} = 3; my $m = "foo bar" ~~ /o./; say %h{"$m"}; 10:58
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«3␤»
oha isn't it a bug?
10:59 meppl joined
sorear >250 tests! \\o/ 10:59
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colomon oha: it's a known issue 11:00
dalek ecza: 108e2bb | sorear++ | (4 files):
Implement optional parameters and default values
oha i will not fill a bug, ty colomon
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moritz_ kaare_: fixed, thanks 11:12
11:15 sECuRE left
sorear can now compile around 20% of STD.pm6... pity most of that is comments 11:17
cspencer hello, all! 11:18
arnsholt sorear: What, you want to compile actual code? You're weird ;p 11:19
dalek ecza: a7c5198 | sorear++ | Niecza/Actions.pm:
Fix $foo.<bar> syntax
cspencer i've got a quick question re: the <...> circumfix op for constructing parcels - is it possible to including characters like \\n or \\t in there and have them appear as the intended characters?
ie) <\\n \\t \\r>
moritz_ cspencer: no, only witgh <<...>> 11:20
cspencer ah, thanks :)
moritz_ rakudo: say <<a\\nb c\\td>>.perl
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«("a\\\\nb", "c\\\\td")␤»
moritz_ hum
that did not interpolate
cspencer (what're the name of those ops anyways? i'm trying to find them in the docs)
no, it doesn't appear it did :)
moritz_ cspencer: "angle quotes", "circumfixes" 11:21
S02/Literals/
cspencer thanks, mortiz!
it seems like there's been a lot of change since i last paid attention about a year ago :) 11:22
moritz_ a lot also stayed the same (at least in spec land)
cspencer yes, i'm just starting to re-read through things again to get refamiliarized 11:23
11:29 abrasive left
masak is back 11:33
cono masak: perl -e 'print pack("(cc)[@]", 10, 10, 10)' 11:36
masak: and Grammar already works in rakudo ?
masak cono: don't know what you want to say with the one-liner.
cono: yes, grammars work well in Rakudo.
cono masak: matched by gramar, but wrong 11:37
masak wrong how?
remember that I'm not an expert in Perl 5's pack. 11:38
cono masak: Within []-length '@' not allowed in pack at -e line 1.
masak that's more of a runtime issue than a parsing issue.
of course, we could disallow it at parse time, too.
but I'm not sure we need to bog down the spec with that.
cono masak: ok, I will learn about Grammar, and will try to implement :) 11:39
masak cono++
cono masak: thanks
11:44 briang left
pugssvn r31938 | masak++ | [S32/Str] nicer where clause for &pack 11:50
r31938 |
r31938 | Reads better and is more amenable to compiler optimization. Suggested by
r31938 | TheDamian++.
takadonet morning all 11:51
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szabgab masak: jnthn either of you planning to attend fscons.org/ ? 12:04
masak not until you mentioned it, no :) 12:05
jnthn is afk until tomorrow.
szabgab its in Gotenburg 12:06
and I am not sure where do you live ?
12:06 leprevost joined
szabgab besides on #perl6 I mean 12:06
masak other side of the country, but east-west is not so long a distance. :)
moritz_ :-) 12:07
rakudo: say ?( all( "a" => 1, "b" => 2) ~~ Pair)
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«0␤»
masak moritz_: what happened there? 12:08
moritz_ masak: rakudo uses smart-matching for type checks. So it checks if the LHS is a Pair - it's not. It's a Junction.
oha moritz_, so junction don't go over smart match boundaries? 12:09
masak put differently, infix:<~~> is too posh for autothreading?
moritz_ which is wrong, afaict. It should be using .does or .isa for typec checking
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masak oh, good. 12:09
is this in RT?
moritz_ and properly autothread over ~~
not sure
masak submits rakudobug 12:10
szabgab masak: so tell me if you submit a talk proposal and if they accept it
it is afeter the dead line already
but I think they still sort of accept
masak szabgab: huh. bit busy this week with GSoC and things.
but I'll see what I can do.
szabgab++ # using the 'kameler' Swedish maining list as a communication medium 12:12
dolmen masak: pack template is a language itself
masak dolmen: yes, it is indeed.
szabgab masak: apparently I am the only one using it :)
masak dolmen: was that within some context in particular? :)
szabgab: more or less, yes. it's not very active.
dolmen masak: you didn't mention it in "The Prince of Parsea"? Or is my memory failng? 12:14
moritz_ speaking of which... are the slides online somewhere?
masak dolmen: I didn't, correct.
yes. the usual place.
feather.perl6.nl/~masak
dolmen is maybe mixing masak's talk with jnthn's one about Signatures 12:15
moritz_ indeed
(re slides)
masak dolmen: thing is, they're really just string literals, so in my diagram I don't count them as a sublanguage.
dolmen: they would count as a "poor man's sublanguage", though.
dolmen I wonder if Perl6's pack templates should not be implemented as Signature instead of Str 12:16
masak a bit the same way a set of clever subroutine names are a "poor man's DSL" :)
dolmen: that's an intriguing idea. sounds like a good idea for a module.
moritz_ masak++ "Embrace your inner lollipop" 12:17
masak :)
TimToady laughed at that one :)
dolmen :)
what is the original culture reference of "Embrace your inner..."? 12:19
Su-Shee psychology of the late 70ies/early 80ies. "embrace your inner child" stuff.
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moritz_ sub mkdir-p(@a) { 12:27
for [\\~] @a.map({"$_/"}) {
mkdir($_) unless .IO.d
}
moritz_ loves Perl 6 12:28
frettled ooh
masak moritz_++ 12:29
dolmen Su-Shee++
frettled (++)++
masak meta++
cono moritz_: *~~:d does the same as .IO.d ?
frettled ‡++
Su-Shee morse--.--. ;)
frettled Su-Shee: you win :D
moritz_ cono: you actually need .IO on the RHS of ~~ :d too
masak bows to Su-Shee's skillz
moritz_ rakudo: say '/etc/'.IO ~~ :d 12:30
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak moritz_: LHS.
moritz_ erm, yes
rakudo: say '/etc/'.IO.d
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz_ dysrexic :-)
cono RHS, LHS? (shame)
moritz_ rakudo: say '/etc/' ~~ :d
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Method 'd' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤ in 'Enum::ACCEPTS' at line 4931:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/s3RFbFpMO8␤»
masak cono: "left hand side", etc.
cono masak: thanks :)
masak rakudo: enum Direction <Left Right>; say Left == False 12:31
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak rakudo: enum Direction <Left Right>; say Right == True
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«1␤»
dolmen rakudo: qp{/etc}.WHAT.say 12:32
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<{ }>, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
moritz_ wonders if qp(/etc} should return the same things as '/etc'.IO 12:33
dolmen rakudo: pp:q{/etc}.WHAT.say
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
moritz_ qp NYI
masak never liked qp 12:34
frettled It gives me associations to quoted-printable. 12:35
masak It gives me associations to heavy bikeshedding. 12:40
moritz_ aye 12:41
I wonder if we can get away with simply not implementing it
github.com/moritz/perl6-Module-Starter 12:42
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masak moritz_: nice! pls add to pls. 12:43
dolmen loves qp{}
moritz_ loves nqp 12:44
at least a bit
dolmen :)
szbalint what is qp btw?
moritz_ quote path 12:45
masak szbalint: path constructor.
Su-Shee p? nqp? folks, it's n-np these days! ;)
dolmen qp{} is literal for Path
masak Su-Shee: :)
dolmen like "" or q{} for Str
moritz_ that's n(1-p)
szbalint I'm like frettled on this one.
masak someone on Slashdot pointed out that P == NP iff N == 1 or P == 0.
szbalint that was easy :) 12:46
frettled masak: that someone is obviously a joker or a nitwit :)
masak frettled: hard to tell on Slashdot. :)
frettled not xor
szbalint haha, I was about to say the same thing frettled :)
baest weird, the mkdir call creates directories with permissions 000 on my machine 12:47
shouldn't it default to umask
masak yes.
there's an RT ticket about that.
moritz_ baest: fixed in latest rakudo
masak for now, one has to give the mask explicitly.
baest moritz_++, masak++ :) 12:48
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dolmen umask--, masak++ 12:48
masak :P
moritz_ umasak?
tadzik hello again
masak tadzik: we meet again. 12:49
baest once more
frettled for the first time for the last time?
masak frettled: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. 12:50
tadzik oh moritz_, I see you also have sub mkdirp on top of Your code (module-starter) 12:51
looks like a nice module to make
Something like shell-utils, mkdir -p, rm -r, cp -r etc 12:52
moritz_ btw extensions to the module-starter thing are very welcome
it's just an initial thing
frettled masak: first, second, or third cousin?
masak frettled: zeroth. 12:53
dolmen is Perl grammar runtime extension supported in Star?
masak no.
colomon masak, moritz_: Just before I left for vacation, I was looking at the Numifying an array yields a Num, not an Int bug. I found I have not the faintest clue how Rakudo actually numifies an array. Any ideas? 12:54
masak except for the special case of user-defined operators.
colomon: Parrot-level?
moritz_ colomon: probably through the get_number vtable
colomon masak: I'm guessing Parrot-level stuff is involved, but I don't see how it works.
prefix:<+> is supposed to call .Numeric now. 12:55
pugssvn r31939 | moritz++ | [S32::IO] update to new type names, remove some thinkos
oha i can't follow how exactly a socket is implemented in parrot. i got up to PIO_* but i can't find the code which does are hiding 12:59
any help?
tadzik isn't that a Parrot question?
oha tadzik, it is :)
tadzik :)
moritz_ oha: did you find src/pmc/socket.pmc already?
oha moritz_, yep :( nothing in
i've found it refers socket_api.c in parrot 13:00
moritz_ #include "../src/io/io_private.h"
oha but there it will use something like PIO_SEND and PIO_RECV which seems undefined to my grep
moritz_ I guess you found that too
include/parrot/io_unix.h 13:01
Su-Shee mathw: haven't you been the guy with GIR and p6 bindings?
moritz_ #define PIO_SEND(interp, pmc, buf) \\ Parrot_io_send_unix((interp), (pmc), (buf))
mathw Su-Shee: I've talked about them, I haven't done anything about them
moritz_ which is defined in src/io/socket_unix.c 13:02
Su-Shee mathw: I was just surfing the seed stuff. _very_ impressive.
oha moritz_++
moritz_ oha: I can very much recommend 'ack' (grep on steroids)
which I used to find that out :-)
oha moritz_, more probably, i've just searched on parrot/src and not includes
mathw Su-Shee: yes it'd be nice if P6 can end up with something that smooth :) 13:03
Su-Shee: I believe it's possible
Su-Shee mathw: they're essentially done with gnome, it's amazing. wow. 13:04
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mathw it's just gobject introspection and runtime binding 13:07
Su-Shee "just" - it's actually down until the socket level, included webkit and all.. :) 13:09
mathw yes
well gtk webkit has GIR data :)
Su-Shee they've also bound a couple of non-gobject libs.. very impressive. 13:12
13:14 Synn joined
mathw that is a tad harder :) 13:14
Synn what's up
mathw Hi Synn 13:16
masak y0 Synn 13:17
mathw o/ masak
masak mathw \\o
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masak #phasers tonight? 13:22
13:22 clintongormley left
moritz_ thinks so 13:22
Axius hello 13:23
takadonet Axius: hey
masak hello, Axius
moritz_ wonders if s/// should desugar to .subst(..., :inplace) 13:24
that would solve the problem of returning something other than the result of the substitution 13:25
cognominal rakudo: grammar A { token TOP { <a> }; token a { a } }; class A::A { method TOP($/) { say $<a>.keys }} A.parse( 'a', :actions(A::A)) 13:26
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "class A::A"␤»
moritz_ need ; after } 13:27
masak moritz_: if that works from a spec-consistency perspective, I'm all for it.
we should have a bot that says "need ; after }".
moritz_ if methods are allowed to bind their invocant rw, that looks like the best solution to me
masak we could call it semicolonbot.
moritz_ masak: it's called p6eval, and neds to be run with std: 13:28
cognominal I know that a match is both an array ans a hash and tht both containers have a keys method but I would expect it to here the keys list the named reductions
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cognominal rakudo: grammar A { token TOP { <a> }; token a { a } }; class A::A { method TOP($/) { say $<a>.keys }} ; A.parse( 'a', :actions(A::A)) 13:28
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«␤»
moritz_ the spec isn't clear on that point 13:29
cognominal I think it can be useful on actions for a rule that is a mere alternation list. method alternation($/) { make $/."{($/.keys)[0]}".ast } # if I got that right 13:31
masak fwiw, I'd also expect the subrule names from .keys
moritz_ cognominal: are you sure you don't want .caps for that? 13:32
masak .oO( .shower-caps ) 13:33
cognominal heads to S05
moritz_ that said, I could very well live with Match.keys returning (Match.list.keys, Match.hash.keys)
and likewise .values and .kv
cognominal Another thing that bother me with actions is there is no way to type and type check .ast 13:35
I have just bitten by that.
moritz_ how would you want to type .ast? 13:36
I kinda don't like the idea of a type constraint on it (more) 13:37
the reason is that a Match object is really produces as the result of a regex match
while the .ast is populated by an action method
and there can be multiple sets of action methods for the same regex and thus match object
so at the place where the match object is create, you can't know the type of the AST 13:38
*created 13:39
moritz_ 's words trail off in the echo chamber ...
masak :) 13:40
cognominal method a does ASTType(Str) { } # It is kind like a return type except it is the return type of the .ast method. 13:41
... as called in the a action.
moritz_ hm 13:42
make() is really just syntactic sugar for setting $/.ast
not something that's propagated by return exceptions or so
cognominal it sets $/.ast so it could check if the type is correct. 13:43
if there is a type set... (no pun intended)
moritz_ it could. And it feels oh-so-wrong 13:44
the thing that makes it so wrong is that make() is a side effect 13:45
if the action method simply returned the AST, and the regex engine assigned it to $/.ast under the hood, all of this would be so much simpler
rakudo: say 'abc' ~~ .say 13:49
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«abc␤1␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say 'abc' !~~ .say
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Any()␤0␤»
oha how to do integer math in p6? 13:50
moritz_ +, *, -, div, % and **
masak moritz_++ # perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/perlmonk...tions.html
oha moritz_++ i were missing div 13:51
takadonet www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/czg3...perlmonks/
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moritz_ rakudo: given 3 { when True { say "aye" } } 14:00
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«aye␤»
moritz_ std: given 3 { when True { say "aye" } }
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«Can't call method "Str" on unblessed reference at STD.pm line 27074.␤FAILED 00:01 113m␤» 14:01
moritz_ std: 1 ~~ True
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Smartmatch against True always matches; if you mean to test the topic for␤ truthiness, please use :so or *.so or ?* instead at /tmp/KRzCMvzGPf line 1:␤------> [32m1 ~~ True[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤ok 00:01 113m␤» 14:02
moritz_ wonders why the former doesn't warn
masak looks like an stdbug.
14:03 xomas_ joined 14:07 ruoso joined
moritz_ std: 1 !~~ True 14:17
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Smartmatch against True always matches; if you mean to test the topic for␤ truthiness, please use :so or *.so or ?* instead at /tmp/BtjzJq3TDa line 1:␤------> [32m1 !~~ True[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤ok 00:01 113m␤» 14:18
frettled Hmm, what was the Unicode character for \\o/ that someone found?
14:19 alc joined
masak .u taurus 14:20
phenny U+2649 TAURUS (♉)
masak hm, maybe not :)
tadzik star: my @ar = %foo, %bar; my %foo = one => 1; my %bar = two => 2; say @ar.perl; # bug?
squeeky .u victory hand
phenny U+270C VICTORY HAND (✌)
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«[]␤»
tadzik when I declare @ar at the end, it's ok 14:21
masak tadzik: the bug is that it doesn't parsefail.
std: my @ar = %foo, %bar; my %foo = one => 1; my %bar = two => 2;
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable %foo is not predeclared at /tmp/bF0UhYT2mN line 1:␤------> [32mmy @ar = %foo[33m⏏[31m, %bar; my %foo = one => 1; my %bar = tw[0m␤Variable %bar is not predeclared at /tmp/bF0UhYT2mN line 1:␤------> [32mmy @ar = %foo, %bar[33m⏏[31m; my
..%…
tadzik oh
by the way, how to make this @ar not flatten the hashes? 14:22
masak put it in {}s
or prefix with a \\
same as in Perl 5.
cono {} will copy hash 14:23
$(%foo)
masak the former clones, the latter takes a reference. yes, what cono said.
cono masak: \\ <- capture in p6 14:24
masak right. think of it as a reference on steroids :)
moritz_ $(%foo) or %foo.item
cono rakudo: my %h = 1,2; say (\\%h).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Capture()␤»
cono rakudo: my %h = 1,2; say ($(%h)).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
cognominal tadzik: better declaring @ar than declaing war. 14:25
tadzik will $%h work?
cono rakudo: my %h = 1,2; my @n .= push(%h.item); @n.perl.say
tadzik rakudo: my %h = 1,2; say ($%h).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«[{"1" => 2}]␤»
rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "$%h).WHAT"␤»
tadzik :(
cono I like .item :) moritz_++
14:26 molaf joined, Axius joined
tadzik no utf8 in hash keys? 14:26
star: my %h = 'łódka' => 3; 14:27
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
tadzik oh you
star: my %h = 'łódka' => 3; say %h.perl
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«{"łódka" => 3}␤»
tadzik hrm
moritz_ rakudo: my %h = 'łódka' => 3; say %h.perl
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«{"łódka" => 3}␤»
tadzik star: my %h = łódka => 3; say %h.perl 14:28
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«{"łódka" => 3}␤»
tadzik hrm
cono perl6 -e 'my %h = "првиет" => 1; %h.perl.say' works good
moritz_ ... but fails on the REPL?
cono as always :)
tadzik nah, just some silly bug in my script
there's like 90 lines of hashes, must be some typo 14:29
bbkr star: my %h = lodka => 1, łódka => 2; %h.perl.say 14:35
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«{"lodka" => 1, "łódka" => 2}␤»
tadzik FYI, it means 'boat' :)
TiMBuS > my %h = 'łódka' => 3; %h.perl 14:36
{"łódka" => 3}
repl works4me. might be a terminal issue (heh)
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pmurias ruoso: hi 14:37
ruoso hi pmurias
pmurias ruoso: would i be ok if i used 'use V6' instead of 'use v6-mildew'? 14:38
as that wouldn't require fglock to accept the patch 14:39
i have 'use v6-mildew' working runing in scripts and i'm working on making it work for modules and cleaning it up enough to commit it 14:41
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pmurias ruoso: we might also have a v6 hook so that once fglock releases a new version of v6.pm 'use v6-mildew' will also work 14:43
bbkr rakudo: multi sub foo (@x where {say "match"; 1}) {}; multi sub foo (@x where {say "no match"; 0}) {}; foo([1,2,3]) # why it checks first signature twice? a bug? 14:44
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«match␤no match␤match␤»
ruoso pmurias, hmm... do you have a working version of the "use v6-mildew" support? 14:45
moritz_ bbkr: once for the multi dispatch, once for binding
bbkr moritz_: thanks
moritz_ bbkr: there's nothing in the spec that forbids it, although it could be optimized
bbkr moritz_++ 14:46
moritz_ side effects in type constraints are sufficiently evil to deserve the shotgun
(except for satisfying the curiosity, of course)
pmurias ruoso: yes 14:47
ruoso pmurias, have you sent him an email with the patch>\\
?
pmurias yes
he mailed me back that he is looking into it 14:48
moritz_ colomon: what do you think of rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=77126 ? I'm inclined to reject it, on the base that our numeric types are not subset types
ruoso pmurias, ah... ok... so that's fine, I think that's acceptable as a deliverable, just make the patched version avialble somewhere for people to try it out
pmurias, did you split the v6-alpha from plain v6? 14:49
colomon moritz_: hmmm.
ruoso pmurias, so that you don't need to install Pugs::Compiler::Rule to have v6-mildew...
colomon star: my Complex $x; $x = 1; say $x.perl
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/RL_ylNR9mg␤»
colomon moritz_: that one seems like it should be easy to do. 14:50
but I'm not sure "my Complex $x = 1" is reasonably doable.
moritz_ colomon: we also have (-1).sqrt and (-1 + 0i).sqrt behave differently, so we do distinguish Complex from non-complex
colomon actually, overloading infix:<=> may be pretty tricky?
moritz_: oh, certainly.
moritz_ it's certainly not worth doing for this case 14:51
ruoso moritz_, I'm not sure overload is the right thing to do
moritz_ because then he'll complain that sub f(Complex $x) { } f(1) will still fail
ruoso: I'm sure it's the wrong thing to do :-)
ruoso good...
colomon moritz_: good point, f(1) should never work like that. 14:52
moritz_ unless Complex is a coercive type, (TimToady speculated about them at YAPC)
but I guess for now we can reject the ticket
ruoso star: my Num $a = 1 + 2i;
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/cn6klu0nV7␤»
pmurias ruoso: i didn't split out v6 from v6-alpha
ruoso do we have a superset for all numbers? 14:53
moritz_ star: my Numeric $a = 1 + 2i;
p6eval star 2010.07: ( no output )
ruoso pmurias, hmm... is it too hard?
alright..
bbkr star: multi sub foo (@x where {@x.pop; 1}) {}; my @f = 1,2,3; foo(@f); @f.perl.say # should this be disallowed? where check cannot modify param value because user doesn't control how many times it is called (as moritz said)
colomon star: my Numeric $a = 1 + 2i; say $a.WHAT
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Complex()␤»
pmurias ruoso: it's a matter of packaging stuff into 2 tarballs
ruoso moritz_, I might be loosing something, but "subset" is what I'd think for "coercitive type"
pmurias ruoso: there are in sepereate .pm files
moritz_ ruoso: they are not the same 14:54
bbkr: you can't generally forbid it. You should forbid it by convention.
because our methods aren't marked as pure or non-pure
ruoso pmurias, I think it's worth having v6.pm in a different package then v6-alpha
and v6-mildew
pmurias yes
bbkr moritz_: I was just curious if some spec part forbids it. but perl gives enough rope... just like in this case :) 14:55
ruoso pmurias, so... just make them three dists, email the patches to fglock and make the three .tar.gz available somewhere for people to test 14:56
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colomon star: subset ComplexNumeric of Numeric where { $^n ~~ Real || $^n ~~ Complex }; my ComplexNumeric $x = 1; say $x.perl; $x = 1i; say $x.perl 14:57
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤ in 'ACCEPTS' at line 1␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/AqD5quN4oJ␤»
14:57 Axius joined
colomon star: subset ComplexNumeric of Numeric where { ($_ ~~ Real) || ($_ ~~ Complex) }; my ComplexNumeric $x = 1; say $x.perl; $x = 1i; say $x.perl 14:57
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤ in 'ACCEPTS' at line 1␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/datuKCLFdC␤»
moritz_ colomon: please submit 14:58
colomon nyi? or am I doing something wrong there.
moritz_ looks about right
pmurias ruoso: would use V6-mildew be a worse name then use v6-mildew? 14:59
colomon star: subset ComplexNumeric of Numeric where { ($_ ~~ Real) }; my ComplexNumeric $x = 1; say $x.perl; 15:00
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤ in 'ACCEPTS' at line 1␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/fzM3BfOkY6␤»
ruoso pmurias, yes... and it's ugly to have both V6 and v6
pmurias, I mean, it's worse because v6 is there already
pmurias ok 15:01
colomon moritz_: submitted
pmurias i'll split v6 into 2 packages, put it into the pugs repo and email fglock again 15:02
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moritz_ colomon++ 15:02
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pmurias ruoso: is there anything else besides v6-mildew that needs to be done as part of GSoC? 15:11
besides releasing a version of SMOP and Mildew from the repo which supports perl5 interop? 15:12
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moritz_ speaking of p5 interop... Tim Bunce demonstrated usage of the p5 DBD::SQLite through blizkost in rakudo, live at his YAPC talk 15:13
pmurias was at that talk 15:15
moritz_ liked it 15:17
masak finds blog.foxxtrot.net/2010/08/perl6-fir...sions.html 15:18
15:18 perlygatekeeper joined 15:19 cognominal joined
moritz_ comments 15:21
masak moritz_++
tadzik oh wow, that webdesign
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colomon ack, my comment won't go through. 15:29
moritz_ mine didn't go through when I went throught the preview
but a direct submission worked
moritz_ -> afk
colomon loliblogged: justrakudoit.wordpress.com/2010/08/...memoizing/ 15:33
[Coke] wonders how hard it would be to add memozation to rakudo subs. can store the cache as a property on the sub object... 15:35
and you would just add a little boilerplate before and after to check and populate the cache. 15:36
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[Coke] also wonders if "is cacheable" is a better spelling. 15:37
15:37 Axius joined
[Coke] rakudo: sub foo is cached ($arg) {say $arg}; foo(3); 15:38
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub foo is"␤»
[Coke] rakudo: sub foo ($arg) is cached {say $arg}; foo(3);
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any
..:rw($rw)…
[Coke] given that the spec says you're allowed to do no caching, IWBNI if rakudo at least accepted that silently. (if that's easy to write.) 15:41
masak [Coke]: I've been thinking the same thing. I'll probably do some experiments with cached subs in Yapsi, when we have subs. :) 15:43
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pmurias [Coke]: wouldn't implementing caching by not doing so mislead people? 15:44
colomon [Coke]: it's kind of tricky to handle all possible argument types for a cache. (else I would have done this last month!) 15:47
but if you can silently fail (or fail with a warn), it would be pretty easy to add single argument caching for Str and Numeric, at least... 15:48
afk # exercising 15:49
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bbkr rakudo: say pi=4 # tricky question. why it failed _after_ say? when say param "pi=4" is evaluated it should IMO die right there and say should never happened. bug? 15:53
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/rdBTOmdtDM␤»
[Coke] pmurias: blame the spec. 15:54
colomon: why not just cache what you can rather than failing?
(the spec basically says it's a hint to the compiler, not a guarantee of anything.) 15:55
bbkr: is it just a warning and not an error?
rakudo: pi=4; say "alive" 15:56
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/8AkAtWsuU3␤»
bbkr Coke: error
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:58
(say pi=4) looks to me like it's doing exactly the right thing. 15:59
takadonet pmichaud: morning 16:01
bbkr pmichaud: why? it should die on assignment, so say param was never evaluated, and so say should not work. compare it to behavior of 'say "foo {die} bar"' 16:03
pmichaud it is dying on the assignment.
moritz_ oh hai
oha pmichaud, isn't dying as in say(pi)=4; ?
rakudo: say(pi=4); 16:04
pmichaud say pi=4 parses as (say pi) = 4
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
pmichaud (I think.... checking)
oha rakudo: say pi=4;
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/AFm2BNjYGL␤»
oha rakudo: (say pi)=4; 16:05
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/2qR_Aih9CS␤»
bbkr rakudo: say (pi=4)
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Ne0PDCgv2r␤»
rokoteko rakudo: my @arr = <foo bar baz>; 0..2 ==> @arr[@(*)] ==> my @t; push my @x, @t[$_] for 0..2; @x.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«too many positional arguments: 3 passed, 3 expected␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
bbkr oh, indeed!
pmichaud oh, hmmmm.
rokoteko rakudo: my @arr = <foo bar baz>; my @t; 0..2 ==> @arr[@(*)] ==> @t; # what's wrong here?
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«too many positional arguments: 3 passed, 3 expected␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
pmichaud that looks really wrong to me. 16:06
bbkr isn't it a parsebug?
with precedence
oha it may be correct, to let a function be used as a RHS? mh...
rokoteko std: my @arr = <foo bar baz>; 0..2 ==> @arr[@(*)] ==> my @t;
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
pmichaud looks to me like STD.pm recently changed its idea of list_assignment precedence 16:07
moritz_ has m// as a call working, in branch match_call
spectesting the merged-into-master version now 16:08
bbkr should i report this pi example somehow or is it expected behavior?
bbkr is confused
pmichaud bbkr: you can report it 16:09
rokoteko anyhow. any idea why 'too many positional arguments: 3 passed, 3 expected' ? where are those expected, and why 3 more than 3?
masak bbkr++
pmichaud rokoteko: no idea 16:11
rokoteko ok. me neither. thought it might be something I just didnt get again while stumbling through the synopsis. :) 16:12
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oha i'm going to surrender 16:14
how can i write a signature which match a &code with a specific signature? 16:15
sub foo(&code(Int)) { ... } seems not working to me, what do i keep doing wrong?
gfldex you are missing a collon 16:16
sub foo(&code:(Int)) { ... }
masak food &
oha gfldex, tried, but rakudo complains
traits specified as colon pairs not yet understood at line ... 16:17
gfldex NIY
oha ohhh ok
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(&code:(Int)) { code(3) }; f -> Int $x { say $x + 3 }
gfldex :)
oha gfldex++ ty
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤traits specified as colon pairs not yet understood at line 22, near ") { code(3"␤»
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(&code(Int)) { code(3) }; f -> Int $x { say $x + 3 }
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1 in sub-signature of parameter &code␤ in 'f' at line 22:/tmp/0rN_y2CHhQ␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/0rN_y2CHhQ␤»
moritz_ is sure that was implemented at some point
probably in alpha
oha no problem, i got that was impl in rakudo, and i kept trying almost everything without success 16:18
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pugssvn r31940 | pmurias++ | rename files in the STD distribution, update version numbers 16:22
r31941 | pmurias++ | remove the unused old SMOP module 16:23
r31942 | pmurias++ | added v6::mildew and a v6 (which allows using it)
r31942 | added required support for that to SMOP and Mildew:
r31942 | * Mildew::Backend::C::V6
r31942 | * SMOP::Embed
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colomon [Coke]: I didn't mean "fail" in the technical sense, I meant "fail to cache", ie just ran the function. 16:39
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[Coke] colomon: ah. perfecto. 16:44
szabgab Anyone interested and available for a Perl 6 hackathon during or around www.t-dose.org/ ?
6-7 November, Eindhoven, TheNetherlands
[Coke] yes but no. 16:45
pmichaud interested, yes. available -- don't know. :)
szabgab pls check it ASAP and let me know, along with a "price tag" so I can put together a budget and see if I can get someone to finance it 16:46
pmichaud will do. 16:47
is it better to fly into amsterdam or brussels to get to eindhoven?
szabgab no idea 16:48
pmichaud looks for direct flights to eindhoven :)
szabgab they look the same distance to me
pmichaud yes, same here. 16:49
anyway, I'll look into it.
oha is there a way (both perl6 and rakudo) to make a function return a lazy scalar?
pmichaud I'm also trying to see if I can make it to osdc.fr -- I know a bunch of the perl 6 folks are planning to be there
looks like amsterdam might be easiest 16:50
flights currently $800-$900 from where I'm at, it seems. 16:54
szabgab thanks
TiMBuS oha, my $a := gather { take [+](^10000) }; 16:55
something like that
?
oha TiMBuS, i'm unsure if that could work
my $out = foo($in); 16:56
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oha say $out; # here a code is executed to evaluate the value of $out 16:56
like in Contextual::Return on p5
TiMBuS is $out eval'd when you return a gather/take binding? 16:57
I just tried: sub thing { gather { take [+](^10000) }; }; my $a := thing(); say 'ok'; #doesn't pause at all 16:59
oha you are right!
pmichaud I'm fairly certain that [+](^10000) isn't going to be lazy
oha TiMBuS++
pmichaud, gather { take ... } will 17:00
TiMBuS woot i got karma'd
pmichaud (I'm not sure what is being attempted here, though)
TiMBuS pmichaud, just the result itself needs to be lazy
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oha TiMBuS worked :) 17:01
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oha nopaste.snit.ch/22673 17:19
the first case work as i wanted. the function is called but the say is lazy 17:20
but i was not able to make it work inside a map
what i wanted is to have all the PRE, then MID, then all the CALC 17:21
i've probably found a way 17:24
rakudo: sub lazy($v) { say "P$v"; gather { say "C$v"; take $v; }}; my @x = map { my $z := lazy($_); }, 1..3; say "MID"; say @x.join(','); 17:27
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«P1␤P2␤P3␤MID␤C1␤C2␤C3␤1,2,3␤»
oha that is just wonderfull! i just don't like the useless my $z inside the map 17:28
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colomon TiMBuS, oha: you're messing around with implementation details there, I think. "gather" might well run the first few iterations and queue them up to be doled out as needed... 17:49
oha oh i see what you mean 17:50
but well, here lazy() is a function, in reality there will be different things in place of this call
method req($request) { $.conn.send($request); gather { take $conn.recv(); } }; # that's more interesting :) 17:52
or better: 17:54
method req($req) { my $c = self.findConn(); $c.send($req); gather { my $res = $c.recv(); $c.free(); take $res; } } 17:55
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colomon oha: but the point here is that gather might work by returning its "output" in chunks, in which case it might try to return an iterator with four or five iterations already done in it. In Rakudo, this would likely be much more efficient than just returning one at a time. 17:57
You're essentially relying on an implementation detail to make this code be lazy the way you want it to be lazy, if I understand your code correctly. 17:58
oha the actual implementation use a middle object 17:59
my $job = submit(...); my $res = $job.result();
submit will send something, and result will wait for a result
i was just wandering if i can make some syntactic sugar here
but i agree with you, it would be better something else 18:00
dalek kudo: 22a11d0 | moritz++ | (22 files):
Merge branch 'master' into match-call

   src/core/Match.pm
kudo: 77d4761 | moritz++ | src/core/Match.pm:
fix wrongly resolved merge conflict
kudo: 9412433 | moritz++ | src/ (3 files):
!~~ now topicalizes too
kudo: 87c82c2 | moritz++ | src/ (4 files):
Merge branch 'match-call'

sets the topic for negated smartmatch (!~~)
colomon moritz_++ !!!! 18:01
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colomon star: say 10000000000000000000 18:10
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«-8446744073709551616␤»
colomon star: say 10000000000000000000.0
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«1e+19␤»
colomon star: say 10000000000000000001 18:11
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«-8446744073709551615␤»
masak moritz_++
tadzik o/
colomon star: say 1000000000000000000 18:12
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«1000000000000000000␤»
colomon star: say 1000000000000000000.WHAT
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
colomon star: say 100000000000000000 18:15
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«100000000000000000␤»
colomon star: say 100000000000000000 + 1
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«1e+17␤»
colomon star: say 100000000000000001
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«100000000000000001␤»
18:16 Axius_ joined
colomon star: say 100000000000000001.WHAT 18:17
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
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mantovani masak: np :P 18:27
[Coke] wonders when bigthink.com/larrywall was filmed. 18:28
moritz_ #phasers in 26? 18:34
dalek kudo: fcf4f36 | moritz++ | (3 files):
adverbs for m//
 18:35
colomon aiiiii, #phasers!
tadzik [Coke]: wathing it too :)
avuserow phasers! pew pew! 18:37
moritz_ it seems that m:overlap// doesn't work properly
or m:g// for that matter 18:38
pmichaud [Coke]: (bigthink) I think it was done around OSCON 18:40
moritz_ pmichaud: when I call &infix:<=> from PIR, is that the list or the item assignment operator? 18:41
I guess item, but I ain't sure
pmichaud moritz_: it's both 18:45
the difference between item assignment and list assignment is in the parsing, not the operator.
moritz_ ok
pmichaud at least, that's how rakudo has it now. :)
moritz_ then I don't understand why it doesn't work
m:g// that is
it rewrites it to
$/ = $_.match(//, :g) 18:46
(a --target=PAST confirms that)
pmichaud it's probably because .match is currently not handling $/ properly
iirc, .match is currently rebinding $/, not assigning it
so what you're left with ends up being "not assignable"
try rewriting it to $/ := $.match(//, :g) for now 18:47
moritz_ the same works for m:i// right now
pmichaud I suspect that would be because m:i// returns $/
and so it ends up acting like a self-assignment
moritz_ oh 18:48
pmichaud whereas $.match(//, :g) doesn't return $/
moritz_ should I use :pasttype('bind')?
or rather &infix:<:=>?
pmichaud no, should call &infix:<:=>
moritz_ ok
rakudo: say 'abc' ~~ m:i/ABC/ 18:49
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 'abc' "␤»
moritz_ huh
rakudo: say 'abc' ~~ m:i/ABC/ 18:50
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«abc␤»
moritz_ o/
rakudo: $_="abcdefg"; say m:i/ABC/
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«abc␤»
18:51 perimosocordiae joined
moritz_ \\o 18:51
perimosocordiae moritz_: who, me?
moritz_ perimosocordiae: what? 18:52
moritz_ lacks context
perimosocordiae moritz_: the \\o
moritz_ perimosocordiae: that was because m:i// now works in rakudo, not related to you :-)
perimosocordiae: but feel free to feel greeted nontheless :-)
perimosocordiae moritz_: awww. haha, ok 18:53
moritz_ rakudo: say 'a b' ~~ m:s/a b/
p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«a b␤»
moritz_ and :s works too :-)
perimosocordiae what do :i and :s do? 18:54
moritz_ pmichaud: using := doesn't seem to break anything, but m:g/a/ still doesn't work :(
:i is ignorecase
and :s makes whitespace signficant
see S05/Modifiers/
perimosocordiae ah, thanks
[Coke] I really would like this interview better if they /read/ the questions they were asking him. -0(
er, =-)
pmichaud moritz_: okay. I suspect we're going to need to get a much clearer handle on $/ altogether. 18:55
moritz_ pmichaud: I fear it, yes 18:56
pmichaud: btw I want to introduce Cool.subst(..., :inplace), which returns what it matched 18:58
and have s/// dispatch to it
otherwise we run into problems with s/// returning the modified string, not the match(es) 18:59
pmichaud that feels wrongish
masak #phasers now?
moritz_ how would you propagate the match out of .subst instead? 19:00
masak: yes
pmichaud moritz_: not sure. It may be that ':inplace' feels like the wrong option.
it may be that s/// should use something other than .subst
I don't have a clean answer -- I just know that :inplace feels .... odd
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moritz_ if it does not use subst, we'll end up re-implementing .subst for s/// 19:01
pmichaud well, it could be that .subst itself is implemented in terms of the other thing 19:02
and simply has a different return value
if you want to go with :inplace for now, I'm fine with that -- just registering that my initial reaction is "that's not quite right"
PerlJam how would $str.subst(... :inplace) differ from $str.=substr(... :inplace) or even $str.=subst(...) ?
moritz_ PerlJam: in return value 19:03
pmichaud PerlJam: that's why ";inplace" feels like the wrong advertb
*adverb
it's not really making it an inplace modification
it's changing the return value
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moritz_ alternative might be to return both the result string and the match as a list 19:11
but that feels awkward, if you ask me 19:12
19:12 dduncan joined 19:14 dduncan joined 19:15 dduncan left 19:26 M_o_C joined
pugssvn r31943 | moritz++ | [t/spec] a Rakudo unfudge 19:28
19:28 smash joined
smash hello everyone 19:28
tadzik o/ 19:29
19:34 nimiezko joined 19:36 justatheory joined
masak hi smash 19:36
19:40 tylercurtis joined
Hulk smash! 19:48
frettled Sorry, I just had to :) Hi, smash!
frettled is the resident joker, but without the poisonous ingredients. 19:49
pugssvn r31944 | moritz++ | [t/spec] rakudo unfudges 19:51
19:53 kensanata joined
masak someone on Twitter says that PHP gets it wrong and Perl 6 gets it right wrt gradual typing: twitter.com/kaja47/status/20818719900 19:54
moritz_ btw would anybody here will be to be grant manager for my error objects grant proposal? 19:56
moritz_ looks at pmichaud, colomon, masak, [particle], [Coke] and a few others
masak is "grant manager" anything like "mentor"? 19:57
PerlJam masak: I think it's more like "cat herder"
pmichaud it's less "mentor" and more like "make sure progress is being made and verify that the terms of the grant are being met"
moritz_: I'll be glad to do it. 19:58
moritz_ afaict the main purpose is to keep comunication to TPF, and answer questions wrt progress
pmichaud: great
masak pmichaud++
colomon pmichaud++
moritz_ any other volunteers?
wouldn't hurt to present more, justin case
masak moritz_: I'd happily grant-manage you. 19:59
moritz_ masak++
oha masak++ # pmichaud got 2 karma, i can't see why you should get only 1 in this case ;-P 20:00
masak karma doesn't grow on trees, you know. :P 20:01
oha tree--
tadzik "karma" means food in my language. Thereof, karma does grow on trees 20:02
[Coke] I can do it, if you'd like it to be less incestuous. =-) 20:06
pmichaud [Coke]: actually, I need a manager for my grant. Would you be willing? 20:08
[Coke] Sure.
pmichaud okay, I'll let Karen know -- thanks. 20:09
[Coke] de nada.
moritz_ [Coke]++
20:12 Italian_Plumber joined
Tene karma-- 20:13
trees++
20:13 Italian_Plumber1 joined
masak loliblogged! use.perl.org/~masak/journal/40490 20:23
frettled hazmat! 20:24
pmichaud masak++ # short and very sweet
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moritz_ lol. 20:25
frettled masak: psst, you wrote «three years ago (…) that was two years ago»
Tene How short is masak?
20:25 justatheory joined
frettled Tene: about ye tall 20:25
masak frettled: fixing.
frettled masak++ for another great motivational blog entry 20:26
cognominal masak++, I prefer to be rmentionned as cognominal. Apart a few english dictionnaries with rare words, I am alone to use that nick on the net.
masak cognominal: fixing.
cognominal I don't ask as much :)
smash masak: is RT#76978 still a problem ? 20:27
20:27 patrickas joined
masak cognominal: fixed :) 20:27
patrickas hello #perl6 20:28
masak hi patrickas!
patrickas hello masak, I have a question about RT #72914
masak looks 20:29
RT seems slow right now.
frettled masak: You should add an edit note to your blog post, that within a couple of minutes of telling #perl6 that you posted, you had three bugreps to your post (including this one) :D
masak frettled: which, as we all know, represent love. I'm flattered. 20:30
nope, can't reach RT. sorry, smash, patrickas. 20:31
frettled masak: exactly!
patrickas masak same here :-) went throught google cache
masak browses them through his email instead
patrickas webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...mp;ct=clnk 20:32
masak rakudo: my @a = (4...^5); say @a.perl # should be 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 20:33
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«[4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4]␤»
patrickas yes
masak and it is.
patrickas my understanding was that ...^ was the same as ... except it does not return the limit when it matches
masak smash: moritz_++ said it'd been fixed. I haven't tested yet. 20:34
patrickas so 4 ...^ 5 would be 4 and 4 ... ^5 would be 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4
masak patrickas: that's probably right.
cognominal masak, where do you see Nil as defined in the spec?
smash masak: by my tests is fixed, think you can look into itan maybe close the ticket ?
patrickas masak: it was fixed but when I implemented ...^ (locally) it broke
masak cognominal: let me find the place for you. it's in S02.
hm, or S04 :) 20:35
cognominal S02:2156 apparently
masak aye.
cognominal I don't know how I missed it the first time around 20:36
masak there's some subtly deep wonkiness going on with Nil being defined.
I've been wanting to talk to TimToady about it.
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[Coke] . o O (is that smash?) 20:36
masak for example, I'm slightly saddened that $obj.?foo // "default" no longer works. 20:37
smash: sure.
smash: as soon as RT comes back up.
smash masak: sure, thks
can't open RT either now :\\ 20:38
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pmichaud lots of perl servers seem to be having difficulties atm 20:38
I couldn't reach perlfoundation.org earlier.
cognominal very often, with Perl 6, things that I innitially find wrong makes more sense once I understand the larger scheme of things. I don't know yet for that one.
pmichaud currently Nil is the same as (), so the real question is whether ().defined is true 20:39
masak spectest run: t/spec/S03-smartmatch/any-bool.t aborts abnormally. t/spec/S05-match/capturing-contexts.rakudo t/spec/S05-metasyntax/regex.rakudo t/spec/S29-context/die.rakudo t/spec/S29-context/exit.rakudo all have failing tests.
cognominal yes I have seen that in src/builtins/Parcel.pir:22 20:40
pmichaud the any-bool.t tests need to be updated to match the spec.
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[particle] is happy to act as anyone's grant manager for hague grants 20:46
gfldex rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; while $s ~~ /(.)/ { print $0 }; 20:48
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3:
..OUTPUT«(timeout)aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…
gfldex rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; while $s ~~ m:g/(.)/ { print $0 };
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
gfldex am i asking for something unreasonable?
[particle] are you expecting that regex to remove a character each time it's run? 20:49
tylercurtis rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; for $s ~~ m:g/(.)/ { print $0 };
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«a»
tylercurtis rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; for $s.match(/(.)/, :g) { print $0 }; 20:50
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Any()Any()Any()Any()»
oha isn't print $/[0]; ?
tylercurtis rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; for $s ~~ m:g/(.)/ -> $/ { print $0 };
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«0»
gfldex $/[0] == $0
tylercurtis rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; for $s.match(/(.)/, :g) -> $/ { print $0 }; 20:51
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«abcd»
gfldex rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; while $s ~~ m:g/(.)/ { print $/[0] }; 20:53
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
gfldex rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; while $s ~~ m:g/(.)/ { print $_ };
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
tylercurtis gfldex: why would while work? 20:54
gfldex it's basic perl5 thinking :)
std: my $s = 'abcd'; while $s ~~ m:g/(.)/ { print $_ }; 20:55
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
gfldex i'm quite sure i wont be the last one to try this
masak indeed. 20:56
we should add a warning for when 'while' is used in conjunction with ':g'.
gfldex would that be a rakudobug? 20:58
masak sure. feel free to submit one. 20:59
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tylercurtis rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; while $s ~~ m:c/(.)/ { print $0 } 20:59
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3:
..OUTPUT«(timeout)bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb…
tylercurtis rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; while $s ~~ m:pc/(.)/ { print $0 } 21:00
masak t/spec/S32-str/unpack.t is all wrong. it shouldn't operate on a Str, but on a Buf.
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Adverb 'pc' not allowed on m at line 22, near " { print $"␤»
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masak I can't believe I once wrote those tests :P 21:00
tylercurtis rakudo: my $s = 'abcd'; while $s ~~ m:p/(.)/ { print $0 }
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: 21:01
..OUTPUT«(timeout)bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb…
masak (whoever added the '(timeout)' thingie)++
oha this is a thing which happen to me alot, i wonder if there is a way to simplify on p6. i have a field which is a Int, and some constants which are values for that field. I want to allow any Int but i want to both compile the constant name to ints, and be able to obtain the name from the Int at runtime. ideas?
masak oha: sounds a bit like enums to me. 21:02
oha masak, for the first part, yes
but at runtime am i able to know if there is a name for that int?
masak that's possible with enums as well.
tylercurtis oha: ~$foo; $foo.Str; $foo.perl; $foo.key; etc. 21:03
oha i'm checking S09, still can't see it
masak S12.
tylercurtis oha: perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#Enumerations
masak constant %dayname := Day.enums.invert; %dayname{3} # Wed
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masak TimToady++ # for that 21:03
oha ok checking there, ty 21:04
masak by the way, the other day, I realized we should probably have gone and named '.so' '.totally' instead. it has about the right Huffman coding, too :)
rcfox rakudo: my $a = 1; say $a.WHAT; my $b = 1 but 2; say $b.WHAT; 21:05
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Int()␤()␤»
moritz_ so totally cute...
moritz_ -> bed
tylercurtis rakudo: my $a = 1; say $a.WHAT.perl; my $b = 1 but 2; say $b.WHAT.perl;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Int␤␤»
masak they're recasted into anon subclasses of themselves. 21:06
should probably still say they're Ints, though.
rcfox rakudo: my $a = 1 but 2; say $a X[~~] 1,2;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«10␤» 21:07
patrickas masak should I go ahead and change the test for (4...^5) to expect 4 as result or should we wait for TimToady's confirmation ? 21:08
rcfox rakudo: my $a = any(1,2,3,4); say $a ~~ 1; say $a ~~ 2;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«any(Bool::True, Bool::False)␤any(Bool::False, Bool::True)␤» 21:09
masak patrickas: viv should be able to solve that one for us.
tylercurtis rcfox: is 1 but 2 actually valid? 21:10
rcfox tylercurtis: I don't know. I'm just fooling around, mostly.
patrickas 6->5 ? how ?
rcfox rakudo: my $a = 1 but Bool::False; say $a ~~ 1; say $a ~~ Bool; say $a ~~ Bool::False; 21:12
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Smartmatch against False always fails; if you mean to test the topic for truthiness, use :!so or *.not or !* instead at line 22, near " Bool::Fal"␤»
masak patrickas: viv outputs a parse tree. it would know how 4...^5 is parsed.
rcfox :\\
masak patrickas: and it is very probably right.
rcfox rakudo: my $a = 1 but Bool::False; say $a ~~ 1; say $a ~~ Bool;
masak rcfox: what did you expect?
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
rcfox masak: I expected something declared to be false to be false. 21:13
patrickas ok .. how do I summon viv ? :-o
tylercurtis rcfox: matching about Bools is a bad idea. 21:14
rcfox Bool was the only predefined enum I could think of.
tylercurtis rcfox: STD warns, but iiuc, Rakudo doesn't know how to do parser warnings, so it just panics.
rcfox: matching against Bool::False will always fail, though. 21:16
masak rcfox: what tylercurtis said. there was a discussion (again) on p6l about this recently.
rcfox Okay, I don't know about all of the operator quirks.
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masak rcfox: basically, when the right-hand side of infix:<~~> is a Bool, the result of the match is that Bool. 21:16
that is, if it's either True or False.
if it's *actually* Bool, the type match works.
21:17 Synn joined
rcfox rakudo: my enum Day <Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat>; my Int $a = 10 but Mon; say $a ~~ Day; say $a ~~ Int; 21:17
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Do not yet support my scoped enums at line 22, near "; my Int $"␤»
rcfox Bah.
What does it mean by scoped enums? 21:18
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rindolf Hi all. 21:18
masak rcfox: 'my' makes it scoped.
hello, rindolf.
rindolf masak: hi, what's up?
rcfox Oh, I didn't realize I copied the my.
rakudo: enum Day <Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat>; my Int $a = 10 but Mon; say $a ~~ Day; say $a ~~ Int; 21:19
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
masak rindolf: finishing up my GSoC grant.
rindolf: what about you?
rindolf masak: I've prepared an .rpm for libenet.
I need it for building the game 0AD.
rcfox rakudo: enum Day <Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat>; my Int $a = 10 but Mon; say $a ~~ Day::Mon;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«0␤»
rcfox rakudo: enum Day <Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat>; my Int $a = 10 but Mon; say $a ~~ Mon; 21:20
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«0␤»
rcfox Buh
Okay, I'm done flooding for now. :P
masak rindolf: every time I see your user name, my thoughts return to the Perl 5 cleanup you once initiated. use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/13/1959233
rindolf: how have your thoughts on Perl 6 and Rindolf changed since then? 21:21
rindolf masak: well.... 21:22
masak: I've experimented a little with Perl 6 - it has many cool ideas.
masak: and I'd like to see Perl 5 maintain backwards compatibility mostly.
masak: I appreciate the fact that the perl 5 and CPAN hackers were able to borrow many good ideas from Perl 6. 21:23
One thing I don't like is that Perl 6 is called "Perl 6". I think it should have used a different name.
masak I sense a "but" in there somewhere.
ah.
quite a few people seem to be uncomfortable with the "Perl 6" name. 21:24
(I'm not.)
tadzik What's the big deal, it's not replacing Perl 5, hence it's not named just "Perl"
it's not Perl 5.2 21:25
pugssvn r31945 | patrickas++ | Added spaces around ... operator
masak rindolf: what's the state of rindolf-the-implementation these days?
rindolf masak: I never started working on it.
masak oh.
rindolf masak: not sure if any of my ideas back then are any longer relevant.
masak: I discovered several of them were already doable with Perl 5. 21:26
Tene rindolf: "maintain backwards compatibility" isn't a strictly binary property. What's your stance on, for example, adding new language keywords, that could potentially conflict with code that someone could have written sometime in the past?
[Coke] Tene: it's really not worth arguing about the name. =-) 21:27
rindolf Tene: well, maybe using the feature pragma.
Tene [Coke]: itym tadzik
tadzik [Coke]: that's why I'm not :)
frettled I'm unhappy that I have to explicitly turn on 5.10 features in Perl 5. :( 21:28
masak rindolf: the reason I'm asking about rindolf is that as an alternative/criticism of the Perl 6 process, it's historically interesting to me.
Tene rindolf: for example, chromatic' patch to add a 'class' keyword, similar to mentioned in that UPO post, was rejected ont he grounds of backwards compatibility, iirc.
masak it was.
but if I were a p5p-er in that situation, I'd probably freak out too. 21:29
tadzik I'm unhappy that the fact that we have 5.12 is worth nothing, for everyone tries to be compatibile with 5.8
pugssvn r31946 | patrickas++ | Added test for 4...^5 with no spaces
tylercurtis tadzik: Frequently Foo n+1 is intended to replace Foo n.
e.g, versions of ECMAscript where N != 4. 21:30
PerlJam tadzik: 5.12 is not "worth nothing". Progress happens in increments of release numbers, not necessarily in increments of time.
tadzik tylercurtis: but I'm afraid people will not easily migrate to n+1 in this case
PerlJam tadzik: at some point, 5.8 will be "too old", not because of its age, but because 5.18 is out.
masak sleeps 21:31
frettled PerlJam: In some respects you're right, but if you still have to "use v5.10" or similar to get features more recent than 5.8, then 5.8 will remain the standard in the P5 world. 21:33
PerlJam frettled: yeah, that particular "feature" actually bothers me a bit.
frettled I'm sure there were quite a bit of broken feathers on the ground after that decision was made. :)
[Coke] as an anecdote, I know someone in albany.pm who is still using 5.5 or 5.6 21:34
frettled colleagues of mine are writing Perl 5 code as if it was Perl 4…
PerlJam [Coke]: as long as it's not Perl 4.036 :-)
rindolf [Coke]: I think Intel Israel are still using 5.6.x. 21:35
frettled My feelings have «always» been mixed about Perl 6 having the name Perl 6, but these days, I'm feeling increasingly comfortable with that. 21:36
tylercurtis tadzik: true. People expect to be able to take their Foo n code and upgrade immediately to Foo n+1 with no effort beyond installing the new version, though. Even (relatively) minor backwards-incompatibilities (e.g. that in Python 2 to 3) bother people.
rindolf [Coke]: and szabgab told us of a company which has thousands of perl-5.6.x scripts and they are planning the upgrade to 5.8.x
frettled rindolf: I'd love to claim that I found that incredible, but that would just be dishonest of me. 21:37
PerlJam frettled: and that's the thing ... the more people see Perl 6 out there, the more they'll get used to it.
frettled Yup.
Tene I'm dealing with 5.8.4 right now and it's a horrible pain.
rindolf Tene: heh. 21:38
Tene: someone posted to SF.pm (IIRC) for help with 5.8.7 on his Linux from scratch system.
He refused to upgrade to something more recent.
I said he was beyond help.
Tene I should look into SF.pm eventually. Moved to the bay area a couple of months ago. 21:44
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rindolf Tene: ah, interesting. 21:46
[Coke] (I look at it this way: I survived oracle, solaris, and java's numbering scheme.)
rindolf Tene: weren't you previously located in Utah?
Tene rindolf: Yes, that's right.
rindolf Tene: BTW, someone commented that after reading the Spark specification , he thought it was a second system effect language, and I think he was right. :-( 21:47
Tene: maybe I should aim a bit lower.
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simcop2387-lap what document should i look at for learning about namespaces in perl6? 21:52
nevermind i'm blind
simcop2387-lap does this too much 21:53
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tylercurtis Does anyone else have problems with STD's makefile on OS X? It appears to use cp -a, but OS X's cp doesn't support -a. 22:33
tell pmurias The existence of both v6/v6-mildew/lib/V6/ and v6/v6-mildew/lib/v6/ in pugs svn doesn't play nicely with non-case-sensitive filesystems (for example, HFS+). Would you mind renaming/moving one of them so that I can checkout the repo again? 22:51
phenny: tell pmurias The existence of both v6/v6-mildew/lib/V6/ and v6/v6-mildew/lib/v6/ in pugs svn doesn't play nicely with non-case-sensitive filesystems (for example, HFS+). Would you mind renaming/moving one of them so that I can checkout the repo again?
phenny tylercurtis: I'll pass that on when pmurias is around.
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ingy win 46 23:17
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tadzik gnight 23:25
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tylercurtis sorear: do you know if any problems would be caused if the usages of "cp -a" in STD/viv's Makefile were replaced with "cp -R"? 23:50
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sorear What OS are you on? 23:53
tylercurtis OS X 10.5
sorear according to cp(1) -a is short for -dpR
POSIX.1-2004 talks about -p and -R but not -d
sorear checks if -d is essential
-d: Copy symbolic links as symbolic links 23:54
no symlinks in STD
using -pR will work fine
tylercurtis: do you have a pugs commit bit yet? 23:56
tylercurtis sorear: yes. 23:57
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