»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Set by moderator on 4 August 2010.
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pugssvn r31947 | tcurtis++ | Replace cp -a with cp -pR for the sake of non-Linux-users. 00:09
sorear rakudo: say (:a :b).perl 00:15
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
sorear std: say (:a :b).perl
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
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patch greeting from boston.pm! 00:37
hercynium GO 'WAY!
patch rakudo: say [+] ^10 00:38
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«45␤»
patch star: (<a b c> Z=> 1..3).perl.say 00:40
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«("a" => 1, "b" => 2, "c" => 3)␤»
PerlJam rakudo is now "featured" on github.com (probably old news, but I thought I'd mention it anyway) 00:41
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sorear yeah ever since star 00:41
I wonder if it's a statistical thing
some of the github guys are perl folk
PerlJam It wasn't featured yesterday (or at least I didn't see it)
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BillN1VUX sorear: one of the github guys is visiting Boston.pm. patch just did demo on projector. 00:44
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hercynium rakudo: say "You can pick your $_" for <friends clothes home nose>.pick(*) 00:45
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«You can pick your home␤You can pick your friends␤You can pick your nose␤You can pick your clothes␤»
hercynium just felt inspired
BillN1VUX sorear: Chacon featured the project when he saw talk at yapc::eu 00:46
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BillN1VUX then he flew straight to LinuxCon ... and dropped in on Boston.pm and patch's Acmeist p6 impl talk 00:50
sorear patch is implementing p6 too? 00:56
BillN1VUX sorear - patch is doing p6 impl of acmeist modules. 00:58
not p6 itself
patch rakudo: ( 8, * + 8 ... 64 ).perl.say
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«(8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64)␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: (8, 16 ... 64).perl.say 00:59
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«(8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64)␤»
hercynium rakudo: say "You can pick your $_" for <friends clothes home nose>.pick(6) 01:00
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«You can pick your home␤You can pick your friends␤You can pick your clothes␤You can pick your nose␤»
hercynium rakudo: say "You can pick your $_" for <friends clothes home nose>.pick()
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«You can pick your clothes␤»
hercynium rakudo: say "You can pick your $_" for <friends clothes home nose>.pick(6, :replace)
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«You can pick your home␤You can pick your home␤You can pick your home␤You can pick your clothes␤You can pick your nose␤You can pick your clothes␤» 01:01
hercynium rakudo: say "You can pick your $_" for <friends clothes home nose>.pick(6, replace => 1)
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«You can pick your friends␤You can pick your nose␤You can pick your home␤You can pick your home␤You can pick your nose␤You can pick your friends␤» 01:02
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dukeleto Is there a Debian package for Rakudo* ? 01:08
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tylercurtis std: my regex foo ($s) { $s }; say 'a' ~~ / <&foo('a') > / 01:36
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: my regex foo ($s) { $s }; say 'a' ~~ / <&foo('a') > /
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracket at line 22, near "('a') > /"␤»
tylercurtis Is this a case of NYI or a bug in my code? 01:38
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sorear tylercurtis: Looks line NYI 01:44
tylercurtis sorear: alright. Can grammars have attributes? 01:50
rakudo: grammar Fish { has $.species = 'salmon'; token TOP { $.species } }; Fish.parse('salmon').say; 01:51
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«␤»
pmichaud note that the type object won't have an initialized attribute.
rakudo: grammar Fish { our $species = 'salmon'; token TOP { $species } }; Fish.parse('salmon').say; 01:52
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«salmon␤»
pmichaud \\o/
although it's arguable that when Fish creates an internal cursor that cursor should have the attribute
tylercurtis rakudo: grammar Fish { has $.species = 'salmon'; token TOP { $.species } }; Fish.new.parse('salmon').say;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«␤» 01:53
pmichaud so I'd call that a rakudo bug.
not sure it's going to be fixed anytime soon, though.
tylercurtis Alright. I will use an our variable, then. 01:54
pmichaud a my variable will work also.
oh, maybe not.
but why use a variable in the first place? How would it get set?
NQP knows how to do parameters on regexes, so it shouldn't be hard to add it for rakudo (if it's not really there) 01:56
tylercurtis pmichaud: I'm attempting to write a YAML parser, and <foo('bar')> doesn't appear to work (actually, I did only check <&foo('bar')> so I should probably check <foo('bar')>), so I'm going to keep track of the indentation with an $INDENT variable. 01:57
pmichaud rakudo: my regex foo($s) { ... }; 01:58
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
pmichaud rakudo: my regex foo($s) { $s };
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
tylercurtis rakudo: grammar Some { token matchthis ($s) { $s }; token TOP { <matchthis('thing')> } }; Some.parse('thing').say;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«thing␤»
tylercurtis That works. :)
pmichaud rakudo: my regex foo($s) { $s }; say 'a' ~~ / <&foo('a')> /
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracket at line 22, near "('a')> /"␤»
pmichaud rakudo: my regex foo($s) { $s }; say 'a' ~~ / <foo('a')> /
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/1_T4OrYTpn␤ in 'Cool::match' at line 2406:CORE.setting␤ in 'Regex::ACCEPTS' at line 5676:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/1_T4OrYTpn␤» 01:59
pmichaud a-ha
it doesn't know how to parse circumfixes on variables
a-ha
because STD.pm parses an entire expression there
we might be able to handle that.
please file rakudobug if you get a chance. 02:00
afk, shopping
tylercurtis pmichaud: will do. By the way, do you have a moment for a PCT question?
pmichaud just a moment
(yes, I have only a moment :) 02:01
tylercurtis pmichaud: Is :returns<Float> the correct way to say that a number should be a Float?
I'm working on constant-folding and I noticed that t/nqp/51-multis.t in NQP-rx test-suite has a $f.bar(43.5 - 0.5) that, with my constant-folding, is producing PAST::Op.new(:name<bar>, :pasttype<callmethod>, PAST::Var.new(:name<$f>), PAST::Val.new(:returns<Float>, :value(43))).
The PIR this generates is 'find_lex $P53, "$f"␤$P53."bar"(43)'. So, that goes to the wrong multi.
pmichaud that does look like a PCT bug, yes. 02:03
but I think there must be something else going on. 02:04
normally PCT is smart enough to be sure to generate 43.0 for floats
the code that handles that is PAST/Compiler.pir:2530 02:05
oh, wait, that won't handle this case. 02:08
yes, it's a PAST::Compiler bug 02:09
is this blocking gsoc for you?
I have to run. I'll fix this tomorrow early-ish. 02:10
afk 02:11
tylercurtis pmichaud: thanks. It would just block incorporating some of the optimizations into NQP or other compilers.
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sorear let it be known that I am not a fan of $*endsym 02:34
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tylercurtis ingy: are you around? 04:16
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dalek ecza: a4cf2b8 | sorear++ | (3 files):
Implement colon pairs
 04:27
ecza: 892d55e | sorear++ | (3 files):
Implement fatarrows
ecza: d616f47 | sorear++ | (8 files):
%var automatically becomes a Hash
ecza: e2d76bb | sorear++ | (3 files):
pairs, %hashes live
tylercurtis phenny: ask ingy if he's aware that yaml-pm6 currently has no license. 04:32
phenny tylercurtis: I'll pass that on when ingy is around.
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szabgab I wonder how people writing Perl modules are running their tests? 05:44
I wrote a small script for myself called prove6 that would add lib/ to PERL6LIB and run the files in t/ using perl6 but is there a better way? 05:45
another solution I had is to just ad 'lib' to PERL6LIB in my .bashrc 05:47
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tylercurtis szabgab: ufo-generated Makefiles have a test target that adds lib(and blib, which is where ufo Makefiles put compiled pir modules) to PERL6LIB and runs the files in t/ 05:49
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ingy greetings 05:57
phenny ingy: 04:32Z <tylercurtis> ask ingy if he's aware that yaml-pm6 currently has no license.
ingy tylercurtis: thanks. what's the standard? 05:58
tylercurtis, szabgab: I did most of the recent work on the ufo Makefiles, so feel free to bug me 05:59
tylercurtis, szabgab: you can also run `make t/specific.t` 06:00
szabgab: ufo make test runs: prove -e perl6 ... 06:01
szabgab: so your prove6 is not needed :P
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sorear ingy: the usual license for perl6 stuff is AL2.0 06:08
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tylercurtis ingy: I'm working on implementing YAML::load, by the way. No guarantees that I'll have it finished very soon, given that this is the last week of GSoC, though. 06:29
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ingy sorear: where/how does one put the license declaration? 07:16
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moritz_ typically in a LICENSE file 07:28
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bakki hello 07:56
Hi
colomon o/
bakki I would like to join in perl 6 community
I would like to do something in perl 6
colomon great!
bakki I am build enginner, automation guys, uses perl for 4 yrs ... 07:57
colomon what sort of thing are you interested in doing? 08:00
Su-Shee wear some flowers in your hair! oh wait, that was the other community.. :) 08:01
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mathw Welcome, bakki 08:04
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moritz_ bakki: a good start is to pick a simple perl 5 module, and implement it in Perl 6 08:08
bakki: or join an existing effort to do that 08:09
szabgab ingy: what is ufo?
moritz_ an alien technology Makefile generator 08:10
szabgab svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-mildew/lib/ < can someone please look at this and remove or rename one of the v V directories?
moritz_ github.com/masak/ufo
szabgab svn blows up on that on Windows
moritz_: ty
moritz_ read that README - I loved it :-)
phenny: tell pmurias windows and some Mac file systems are case insensitive, so they can't check out svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-mildew/lib/ 08:11
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when pmurias is around.
szabgab this SVN is so stupid 08:12
it should skip the duplicates
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szabgab ok, so I beamed down ufo from github, what's now? 08:19
moritz_ chdir to your module directory 08:20
ufo && make
make test 08:21
profit!
szabgab ufo is not in my path
and ufo has a Makefile
moritz_ then put it into your path
I don't think you need the Makefile
szabgab and I don't habe /usr/local/bin on this Windows 7 machine :)
moritz_ ouch 08:22
szabgab moritz_: isn't it funny that I keep typing habe instead of have?
and I don't even mean to :)
moritz_ szabgab: it's a bit German-ish :-)
szabgab yep
but b/v are next to each other 08:23
I guess I'll need an ufo.bat that will run perl6 ufo 08:24
moritz_ or a symlink with an extension that's registered to perl6
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moritz_ oh wait, this is windows... 08:24
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szabgab yeah, I am alreday using alien technology 08:25
sorear How many exotic Rakudo features does ufo use? 08:26
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sorear wonders if he could make a ufo.exe 08:26
moritz_ MAIN sub 08:27
.subst
$str.IO ~~ :e
szabgab well, ufo blew up on my system
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szabgab nopaste.gamedev.pl/?id=7847 08:29
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masak oh hai, #perl6! 08:30
szabgab masak: oh hai
this is for you:
nopaste.gamedev.pl/?id=7847
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szabgab it seems ufo dislikes windows :( 08:30
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masak I'm not overly surprised. 08:31
szabgab as I can see there is a call to find
moritz_ aye
masak it's never really been written for Windows.
szabgab: if you'd like to adapt it for windows, I'd be happy to accept a patch that does that.
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szabgab this is a runaway yak fight 08:32
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masak szabgab: what is it that you want to do? 08:38
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tadzik oh hi 08:39
sorear it looks like .NET has no support for querying properties of supplementary characters
szabgab I think I'll try to outsource this to Alias, CSJewell or some other Windows expert 08:40
I just wanted to run my tests and then was got directed to ufo
but I guess I'd better go back to my regular scheduled failurs
as ufo embeds a call to find in the Makefile and I have no idea how to replace that on Windows 08:41
masak szabgab: probably easier to just run the tests manually. 08:43
szabgab: I don't know anything about Windows, but I suspect it has prove.
baest szabgab: use File::Find
sorear masak: prove is part of the Perl5 Test::Harness distribution
moritz_ prove -e perl6 -r t/
sorear it's not an OS tool
szabgab masak: why did you decide to create a Makefile and not something written in Perl 6 ?
masak and you'll need to have the PERL6LIB flag set, or have the module installed. 08:44
szabgab: because the Makefile format abstracts away a lot of the things I don't want to write explicitly. and because I didn't want the build process to be dependent on a module I wrote. and speed.
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(:x(:$y)) { }; ~say &f.signature.params[0].names 08:48
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Method 'names' not found for invocant of class 'Parameter'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/yrVsMvvl8Y␤»
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(:x(:$y)) { }; ~say &f.signature.params[0].^methods(:local) 08:49
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«parcelnamed_namesconstraintscopyrefreadonlynameinvocanttypenameddefaultoptionaltype_capturesrwmulti_invocantslurpysignaturecapture␤»
masak probably the method is called .name, not .names :) 08:53
moritz_ wants named_anmes
*names
masak :)
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(:x(:$y)) { }; say ~&f.signature.params[0].^methods(:local)
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«signature capture parcel named_names constraints copy ref readonly name type invocant named default optional type_captures rw multi_invocant slurpy␤»
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moritz_ phenny: tell patrickas if you want to hack a bit more on MAIN, you could try to implement short options, ie :foo(:$f) in a signature allows both --foo and -f options. $param.named_names should give you a list of all alias names 08:55
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when patrickas is around.
masak ok, thinking out loud here. &pack returns a Buf, and takes different arguments, mostly numbers of different kinds. but this: 08:58
a A string with arbitrary binary data, will be null padded.
this must be a Buf, right?
so pack('a', $some-buf) is a no-op.
hm, maybe that's 'a*' 08:59
moritz_ must be buf, yes
masak just checking. thanks.
I think I"ll just delete the current t/spec/S32-str/unpack.t 09:00
it has three tests, written by me a year or so ago.
they're all wrong.
moritz_ wfm
pugssvn r31948 | masak++ | [t/spec/S32-str/unpack.t] removed; too wrong 09:01
r31949 | moritz++ | test for MAIN with name aliases 09:03
masak Rakudo Perl is featured on GitHub today! twitter.com/zmughal/status/20871210524 09:11
\\o/
tadzik I don't see it 09:12
moritz_ github.com/blog has github.com/blog/692-perl-6-on-github but it's 6 days old 09:13
masak tadzik: I needed to log out and go to the main page to see it.
moritz_: no, that's another thing.
tadzik oh, right
rakudo: i.WHAT 09:14
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
tadzik rakudo: i.WHAT.say
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Complex()␤»
imarcusthis I heard some rumors that someone was working on non-blocking sockets for Rakduo. Anyone know the status of that?
masak rakudo: subset Imaginary of Complex where { !.real }; say 4i ~~ Imaginary; say 2 + 4i ~~ Imaginary 09:15
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Method 'real' not found for invocant of class 'Complex'␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/kiMogeIsya␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5635:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<~~>' at line 402:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 1:/tmp/kiMogeIsya␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5635:CORE.setting␤ in
..'ACCE…
masak rakudo: subset Imaginary of Complex where { !.re }; say 4i ~~ Imaginary; say 2 + 4i ~~ Imaginary
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
moritz_ imarcusthis: you need to ask mberends when he's online
masak \\o/
imarcusthis moritz_: He's the one working on it? 09:16
moritz_ imarcusthis: yes
tadzik masak: !.re is 'has no $.re'? 09:18
masak tadzik: method call, boolification, negation. so yes.
moritz_ !.re is short for !$_.re
masak tadzik: 'has no' as in 'it's zero'. 09:19
sorear Does Perl 6 have anything like ctypes.h functionality?
masak sorear: yes. these tests are inside of the regex sublanguage. 09:20
sorear masak: I was hoping for something I could use to implement regexes 09:21
masak the conversion functions are called .uc, .lc and .ucfirst
sorear: hah! been there, done that. :)
sorear: I cheated and used regexes.
might come back and do it Right sometime.
imarcusthis seen mberends?
masak as in, Big Honking Generated Table.
imarcusthis: all our seen bots are broken :/ 09:22
sorear masak: pir::isctype
moritz_ irclog.perlgeek.de/search.pl?channe...nds&q=
masak sorear: that's an alternative.
imarcusthis mberends is github.com/mberends ?
moritz_ my 'seen' bot :-)
imarcusthis: yes
sorear can use his own trapdoors to access System.Char.GetUnicodeCategory 09:23
imarcusthis moritz: Thanks
sorear but I thought it would be neat to put a p6 veneer over it
moritz_ +1
sorear: just put something in the spec :-)
masak class CTypes { ... } 09:24
:)
moritz_ www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=854283 09:26
windows users please come forth
imarcusthis first ones up against the wall when the revolution comes... 09:27
baest big wall.... 09:28
sorear masak: What is the implementation level of GGE? 09:29
dolmen moritz_: could you tell him the modules are already installed: C:\\Rakudo\\lib\\parrot\\2.6.0\\... 09:30
masak sorear: I think it fails one test that PGE passes.
sorear: it passes a few that PGE fails.
sorear masak: Erm. I thought GGE was an implementation of p6regex in p6? 09:31
masak it is.
sorear is not familiar with PGE
masak PGE is what Rakudo used to run on.
it's written in PIR.
dolmen moritz_: I've seen in the backlog you were talking about Str.subst(... :inplace)
moritz_: this is a bad idea 09:32
moritz_ dolmen: why?
dolmen moritz_: Str must stay immutable
moritz_ it will
sorear right now niecza supports literal characters, subrules, capturing subrules, the ? + * quantifiers, : backtrack control, and :ratchet
moritz_ it will make the container mutable, not the string
dolmen: are the docs installed too?
sorear I take it GGE is a good bit more complete
moritz_ (with the R* .msi) 09:33
dolmen moritz_: no docs, except the book and the cheatsheet
masak sorear: hard to quantify, but yes, probably a bit.
moritz_ dolmen: where's the book installed to?
masak sorear: you're welcome to have a look; it's on github.
sorear: github.com/masak/gge
dolmen moritz_: C:\\Rakudo\\docs
moritz_ dolmen: thanks 09:34
sorear PGE predated gimme5? really?
so gimme5 only *looks* like 1994 Perl code? ;)
masak heh 09:35
dolmen moritz_: back to :inplace
moritz_ it's pretty new, I think
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moritz_ but I'm not sure if TimToady has heard of Modern Perl :-) 09:35
dolmen moritz_: what do you mean by mutable container?
moritz_ dolmen: my $x = 'foo'; # $x is mutable, 'foo' not.
dolmen moritz_: ah, ok 09:36
moritz_ rakudo: my $x = 'foo'; $x ~~ s:g/o/a/; say $x
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«faa␤»
masak sorear: github.com/masak/gge/blob/master/STATUS is pretty accurate. I see that <before> and <after> are marked as NYI, but they are actually implemented already.
moritz_ rakudo: 'foo' ~~ s:g/o/a/;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/qPtzw7bnNd␤»
moritz_ dolmen: subst(:inplace) would have the same behaviour 09:37
dolmen moritz_: but will it be still the same Str object?
moritz_ dolmen: if it has been modified, it can't be the same Str object 09:38
dolmen moritz_: ok, that's fine
moritz_: but I agree with pmichaud ':inplace' would not be the right naming 09:39
moritz_ why not?
it does modify inplace
point is we can't simply call $_.=subst(...) for implementing s/// 09:40
sorear Why not?
dolmen if that is not the same object, this is not "in place"
moritz_ dolmen: with "place" I mean "variable", not "object"
sorear: because then s/// returns the modified string
sorear aha. 09:41
moritz_ sorear: and that surprises people who come from p5, and think it will return something true if anything was changed
so we need some kind of different scheme
dolmen moritz_: it surprised me when I arrived in the Perl5 world
moritz_ and so far nobody suggested anything working, (except pmichaud, who proposed to implement .subst in terms of s///. Not sure I like that at all) 09:42
dolmen moritz_: I mean, many Perl5 things are functional (map, grep...), but s/// wasn't
moritz_ dolmen: and there's the 'functional' alternative called subst() 09:43
in p6
masak I'm not sure we should return something specific from s/// solely to avoid surprising p5 programmers.
to me, returning the result string sounds fine, at least to a first approximation.
dolmen moritz_: so 'inplace' is not functional, so this what is strange for me
moritz_ dolmen: that's because s/// is not functional 09:44
dolmen: it's just a question of how to implement it
masak dolmen: same here. I think that's what pmichaud felt was add about it too.
seems that :inplace and .= take up the same mental space.
moritz_ if you don't want the side effect, you simply don't use :inplace
masak which is a warning sign.
moritz_ I see no problem with that approach
masak: fair point, if s/// does indeed return the result string 09:45
masak I won't stand in the way. just noting my slight uncomfort with the idea of :inplace
if 'rough consensus' is what you're after, you barely have it in this case :) 09:46
moritz_ I think I'll wait for an opinion from TimToady about what s/// should return
dolmen P5 does s/// in place for performance reasons 09:56
however in a world where strings are immutable you can't benefit from this
some VMs such as the JVM have immutable strings to be able to do some other optimizations
such as sharing data 09:57
moritz_ parrot too
dolmen Java has StringBuilder objects that are used for 'inplace' things 09:59
download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/do...ilder.html 10:00
jnthn oh hai, #perl6 10:02
phenny jnthn: 10 Aug 09:32Z <moritz_> tell jnthn could you maybe take a look at www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=853113 ? seems to be an MSI installier issue
jnthn is back from vacations
sorear \\o/ 10:03
moritz_ welcome back. Hope you enjoyed it
sorear niecza: my %x; %x<x>[12] = 5; say +%x<x>
p6eval niecza e2d76bb: OUTPUT«13␤»
jnthn moritz_: Yes, very much so. :-)
masak jnthn: welcome back! 10:05
sorear jnthn: welcome back!
jnthn It's nice to be back, albeit I miss the Swiss alps already. :-)
ingy szabgab: github.com/masak/ufo - it's our MakeMaker 10:06
what's the shortest rule that will never match? 10:07
moritz_ <!>
ingy I beat dconway on this one for p5!
/$^/
moritz_ (?!) is what I typically use 10:08
in p5
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moritz_ ingy: doesn't that match the empty string? 10:08
sorear (it will in p6)
ingy no
moritz_ curious... why not? 10:09
ingy anywho: thanks
sorear stefan@stefans:~$ perl -E 'say "STDOUT_TOP" =~ /$^/'
1
10:09 PZt joined
moritz_ ingy lost :-) 10:10
/a^/
should work though
sorear moritz_: because $^ matches a literal string which is (usually) not empty
ingy moritz_: what do you mean?
moritz_ ingy: you gave a wrong answer
12:07 < ingy> I beat dconway on this one for p5! 10:11
12:07 < ingy> /$^/
ingy did I?
moritz_ ingy: do you ignore sorear?
ingy sorry: I can't resist the urge to out golf the Damian. 10:14
I can't find any input that matches:
/.^/
that was it
moritz_ that makes more sense
ingy it was over a year ago and it's 3am
moritz_ :-)
10:15 x3nU joined
ingy PS If you look at /.^/ at the proper angle, in the proper light, under the influence of the proper drugs, it kinda looks like an emoticon of a certain Aussie I know... :P 10:15
10:15 Trashlord joined
huf it reminds me of a smirking guy with emo hair 10:15
am i looking at it wrong? 10:16
sorear it's the Phineas Gage smile emoticon?
ingy moritz_: someone else in that thread offered /$^/ 10:17
and I actually debunked it :P
10:18 pmurias joined
pmurias ruoso: hi 10:18
phenny pmurias: 10 Aug 22:51Z <tylercurtis> tell pmurias The existence of both v6/v6-mildew/lib/V6/ and v6/v6-mildew/lib/v6/ in pugs svn doesn't play nicely with non-case-sensitive filesystems (for example, HFS+). Would you mind renaming/moving one of them so that I can checkout the repo again?
pmurias: 08:11Z <moritz_> tell pmurias windows and some Mac file systems are case insensitive, so they can't check out svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-mildew/lib/
ingy writing p6 grammars is painful compared to pegex :P 10:20
moritz_ what is pegex?
ingy moritz_: pegex.org 10:21
its my analog of p6rules to all other langs
huf pegex is a bit perverted a name tho, no? 10:22
ingy peg + regex
which is what it is
moritz_ ingy: doesn't look less painful to me
especially those (?:...) just suck.
ingy not the syntax
moritz_ I mean srsly wtf 10:23
that's real cruft
ingy um
I'll explain if you let me :)
everything between /.../ is real regex 10:24
so I can't control that cruft
but anyway, the syntax is about the same
it's just that I can't get actions where I need them in my p6 grammars 10:25
moritz_ why not?
ingy in pegex you can get actions before you try a rule
after it matches
and after it fails
I have to add always passing try_ rules to the p6 grammar 10:26
moritz_ hm
ingy that's basically what I meant
pegex is also very fast :P 10:27
I'm hoping to try to generate p6 rules from pegex
so I can have one testml grammar
or yaml grammar
or whatever
pmurias ingy: you mean pegex gives you implicit hooks before and after the rule 10:28
and on failure
?
ingy pmurias: try_rule1 got_rule1 not_rule1 and end_rule1
in your receiver class
moritz_ does that mix with LTM?
ingy I don't support ltm yet 10:29
I don't see the need for it outside p6
mathw really?
ingy but I've been thinking on it
mathw: I read a good paper 10:30
I wish I could find it
pugssvn r31950 | pmurias++ | [v6-mildew] rename files to work around insensitivity
mathw I know it's not necessary, but I find things can be much more intuitive when you have LTM
ingy but LTM is great when you have people changing grammars on the fly
but most grammars are static 10:31
perl6 ltm is critical
anyway, pegex is brand new
sorear don't worry, we'll steal everything back
ingy and I want to get pegex, testml, yaml and jsync ported to 6 langs by yapc asia :) 10:32
sorear: I really hope so
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ingy as soon as rakudo gets p5 regexes back, I can port pegex immediately 10:33
and then all my modules can be fast :P
moritz_ lol
mathw what makes you think rakudo's implementation of p5 regexes would be fast straight away? 10:34
ingy mathw: a binding to pcre is all I want
moritz_ the previous p5 regex implementation used PGE as a backend
ingy or a thompson nfa!
moritz_ and p5 regex != pcre
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mathw a pcre binding would not give you anything like proper p5 regex support 10:35
ingy moritz_: either is fine for pegex
mathw but you could write one now if you like
ingy mathw: a pcre binding?
mathw sure 10:36
ingy yeah, someone offered to help me do that pretty soon
I forget who
10:39 cdarke joined
ingy mathw: perlgeek.de/en/article/mutable-gram...for-perl-6 10:41
ltm avoids confict when several forces are changing a grammar at once 10:43
that was my take away
and since nothing that I need pegex for currently needs ltm, I put it on the todo stack 10:44
sorear it would be nice if I could run the 3 minute niecza test suite and have it actually work 10:46
rather than have to fix typos TWICE
masak why twice?
sorear becuase I made two typos while integrating code
mathw because you typo the fixes to your typos? I do that 10:47
moritz_ too
sorear mathw: well, that and STD.pm6 can't report more than one critical syntax error in a file
masak that's what's great about tests. they never give up on you :)
sorear add that on top of the fact that STD.pm6 takes a whole minute to parse my 1000 line setting... 10:48
ingy masak!
masak ingy!
ingy masak: we should work on yaml this week
masak ingy: did we say this week? I'm still pretty tied up with GSoC...
next week would be much better. 10:49
sorear niecza now supports :r/token and :s/rule
in addition to regex
masak sorear: cool!
sorear I think the next thing to work on is LTM and protoregexes
masak GGE doesn't have the keywords yet. but I think it has :s.
ingy masak: ok
masak: I'm traveling next week 10:50
masak ingy: oh.
mathw mmm protoregexes
ingy but I'll let you know
masak ingy: you wanted to work on a YAML parser, right?
sorear native types are also on the agenda
masak: does PGE have a concept of ltm? 10:51
in particular 'cursor' will make efficient regex compilation work much better
masak sorear: no.
sorear: and it's sufficiently fundamental that pmichaud++ decided to redo the whole thing with nqp-rx rather than "extend" PGE. 10:52
dalek ecza: 624f995 | sorear++ | (3 files):
Implement quantmods and ratcheting
ecza: ae16a8e | sorear++ | (4 files):
implement sigspace
ecza: 5d8b10e | sorear++ | (2 files):
Ratcheting and sigspace now live
sorear I dropped my keyboard and suddenly a wall of text! 10:53
masak .oO( sorear writes code by dropping his keyboard? wow )
Casan use Drop::Keyboard::Random::Snippet::ActionListener; 10:56
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Casan btw.. concurrency/threads is needed before we can implement apps with EventListeners and such, n'est pas? 10:57
mathw depends how you do it 10:58
Casan so is there another way, when you want them running in the background without locking the process? using fork perhaps? 11:00
ingy This P6 Grammar fwd4.me/Iq2 is the same as this Pegex Grammar fwd4.me/Iq4 which compiles to this simple data structure fwd4.me/Iq5 which compiles further into this CPAN module: fwd4.me/IqN \\o/ 11:01
masak: yeah, I want to write a pegex/p6rules yaml grammar with you 11:02
sorear Casan: Where is EventListener specced? 11:03
I'm pretty sure niecza can handle threads now, I just don't have a sane API for them
Casan sorear: you got me. I'm not talking from spec. ok, not in spec, no need to ask.
sorear Maybe I'll invent one.
Casan niecza? 11:04
ingy sorear: can niecza do regular expressions?
sorear ingy: yes
ingy Casan: yap6
sorear: so I could port pegex to it!
w00t 11:05
Casan yep know its for CLR.. better just read up on some of sorear's blog posts.
sorear ingy: it's using p6regex, though
ingy: unless you mean doing stuff at a much lower level
Casan: It would help if I had a blog.
Casan I found the code on github.. I'll imagine from there what you've been thinking ;)
ingy sorear: I thought "regular expression" meant // not <> 11:06
doesn't s05 say something like that?
sorear /ab*c/ and token foo { <bar> <baz> } are just degenerate cases of the same underlying syntax 11:07
you can write /a<bar>*c/ if you want
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ingy sorear: can you do /(?:a|b)/ ? 11:08
sorear no. that's p5 syntax
ingy and pcre
sorear the p6 way to write that is /[a||b]/, which I'll support in not too long 11:09
ingy sorear: can niecza do 0ld skøøl regular expressions?
sorear m:P5/(?:a|b)/ is not yet supported, no 11:10
ingy anyway, pegex currently relies on the shared regex syntax of all the real world programming languages
sorear out. 11:11
ingy but it's all a smop
night sorear
bbkr can rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=62528 be merged into rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=77146 ? they both refer to what Match.keys should return 11:15
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ingy how do I "unset" an object property? 11:19
star: class C { has p is rw }; use YAML; my $o = C.new; say dump($o); 11:20
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed has at line 22, near "p is rw };"␤»
ingy star: class C { has $p is rw }; use YAML; my $o = C.new; say dump($o); 11:21
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«--- !C␤p: ~␤...␤␤»
tadzik ingy: you mean something like $obj = Nil; ?
ingy tadzik: that'll work
star: class C { has $p is rw }; use YAML; my $o = C.new; $o.p = "hi"; say dump($o);
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Method 'p' not found for invocant of class 'C'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/HS2NjbryP4␤»
tadzik I see many people trying $obj = undef, mainly in old code (oh wow, old Perl 6 code) 11:22
ingy star: class C { has $p is rw }; use YAML; my $o = C.new; $o.$p = "hi"; say dump($o);
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$p' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/X2CusFTrn2:22)␤»
tadzik ingy: $.p
ingy star: class C { has $p is rw }; use YAML; my $o = C.new; $.p = "hi"; say dump($o);
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Lexical 'self' not found␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/SV0Izp2Are␤»
ingy ?
star: class C { has $.p is rw }; use YAML; my $o = C.new; $o.p = "hi"; say dump($o);
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«--- !C␤p: hi␤...␤␤»
ingy star: class C { has $.p is rw }; use YAML; my $o = C.new; $o.p = "hi"; $o.p = undef; say dump($o); 11:23
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of undef as a value; in Perl 6 please use something more specific:␤ Mu (the "most undefined" type object),␤ an undefined type object such as Int,␤ Nil as an empty list,␤ *.notdef as a matcher or method,␤ Any:U as a type constraint␤
.. or fail() as a failur…
ingy star: class C { has $.p is rw }; use YAML; my $o = C.new; $o.p = "hi"; $o.p = Nil; say dump($o);
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«--- !C␤p: ~␤...␤␤»
ingy tadzik: thanks
tadzik ingy: you're welcome 11:24
Casan I was looking for undef as well, so in p6 it is Nil?
tadzik yep
Casan thnx
tadzik even warnings say so, iirc
hmm
or Mu
Nil is an empty list
masak saying that undef is Nil in Perl 6 is missing a bit of the story, I think. 11:26
rakudo: say undef
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of undef as a value; in Perl 6 please use something more specific:␤ Mu (the "most undefined" type object),␤ an undefined type object such as Int,␤ Nil as an empty list,␤ *.notdef as a matcher or method,␤ Any:U as a type constraint␤
.. or fail() as a failur…
masak furthermore, Nil is actually defined. 11:27
11:27 [1]Casan joined
masak rakudo: say Nil.defined 11:27
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
szabgab can I loop over an array and make it easy to look at the previous and the next element as well or do I need to loop over the indexes for this? 11:29
for @x.slider -> $prev, $curremt, $next { } 11:35
colomon szabgab: I spent some time trying to figure that out a few months back, with no real elegant solution 11:36
szabgab for @x.threesome -> ... 11:37
colomon for @x.slider[0..(*-2)] Z @x.slider[1..(*-1)] Z @x.slider[2..*] -> $prev, $current, $next { }
gfldex for @x.slider -> $element {} # $element will be an element of that list, but you dont want that. You want to get hold of the iterator itself. for wont help you there. 11:38
colomon but that's hardly elegant, and last time I checked there were at least two reasons it wouldn't work in Rakudo.
smart way to do it is probably to write a function 11:39
something like
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szabgab yah, Z currently works with two arrays 11:41
not with 3
ingy anyone know how to call a method name that's it a variable. Like p5 $self->$method() 11:42
colomon star: sub past-current-next(@a) { my $two-back = @a.shift; my $one-back = @a.shift; gather { for @a -> $current { take ($two-back); take ($one-back); take ($current); $two-back = $one-back; $one-back = $current; }; }; }; say (past-current-next(1..10).perl
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
colomon star: sub past-current-next(@a) { my $two-back = @a.shift; my $one-back = @a.shift; gather { for @a -> $current { take ($two-back); take ($one-back); take ($current); $two-back = $one-back; $one-back = $current; }; }; }; say (past-current-next(1..10)).perl
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Method 'shift' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤ in 'past-current-next' at line 22:/tmp/ABrzHhv79i␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ABrzHhv79i␤»
colomon star: sub past-current-next(@a) { my $a = @a.list; my $two-back = $a.shift; my $one-back = $a.shift; gather { for $a -> $current { take ($two-back); take ($one-back); take ($current); $two-back = $one-back; $one-back = $current; }; }; }; say (past-current-next(1..10)).perl 11:43
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«(1, 2, (3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10))␤»
colomon star: sub past-current-next(@a) { my $a = @a.list; my $two-back = $a.shift; my $one-back = $a.shift; gather { while my $current = $a.shift { take ($two-back); take ($one-back); take ($current); $two-back = $one-back; $one-back = $current; }; }; }; say (past-current-next(1..10)).perl
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 3, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 5, 6, 7, 6, 7, 8, 7, 8, 9, 8, 9, 10)␤»
ingy star: Class C { method x() { say "xxxx" } }; my $o = C.new; $o.x() 11:44
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of has-scoped Method in a module; add our or my to install it in the lexpad or namespace␤Could not find sub &C␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/muocW53VD7␤»
colomon star: class C { method x() { say "xxxx" } }; my $o = C.new; $o.x()
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«xxxx␤»
ingy star: class C { method x() { say "xxxx" } }; my $o = C.new; my $method = 'x'; $o.$method() 11:46
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Perl6Str'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/U6JEmt_pLE␤»
colomon star: class C { method x() { say "xxxx" } }; my $o = C.new; my $method = 'x'; $o."$method"()
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«xxxx␤»
colomon don't know if that's the best approach, though
ingy kisses colomon
I don't care
I just need tests to pass so I can sleep 11:47
masak been there, done that. 11:48
11:49 wayland76 joined
jnthn
.oO( Insomnia Driven Development )
 11:49
ingy star: class C { method x($foo) { say $foo } }; my $o = C.new; my $method = 'x'; $o."$method"("che") 11:51
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«che␤»
ingy did star change since THE BIG RELEASE? 11:52
11:52 Synn joined
tadzik I don't think so 11:52
moritz_ no; I downloaded the release tarball, built in once, and left it alone ever since (on p6eval's server) 11:53
11:53 masonkramer joined
ingy colomon: what's this: Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 38, near "$.\\"$method" 11:53
hmm
colomon ingy: no idea. 11:54
ingy I see
colomon you do need to include the () after the call if you use "$method"
ingy $."xxx" no worky
moritz_ try self."$method" instead of $."$method"
ingy self. yeah...
colomon can you post the line in question 11:55
?
ingy moritz_++ # correct
colomon moritz_++
ingy already tried :)
masak std: my $method = "foo"; class A { method foo { $."$method" } } 11:56
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus statement at /tmp/P6fKGBTqVg line 1:␤------> [32m$method = "foo"; class A { method foo { [33m⏏[31m$."$method" } }[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
masak ingy: you expected $."$method" to work. I've never seen it spec'd or implied.
ingy: I'm not sure whether it's a brilliant generalisation or just insane. :) 11:57
bbkr rakudo: my $a = 2;$a := $a; say $a
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
masak seems to me self."$method" is an appropriate punishment for now :)
yapsi: my $a = 2; $a := $a; say $a 11:58
p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«2␤»
masak \\o/
colomon \\o/
masak I'll keep doing that until someone fixes Rakudo. :P
rcfox rakudo: my @x = 1..4; for @x.rotate(-1) Z @x -> $a,$b { say "$a $b"; }
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«4 1␤1 2␤2 3␤3 4␤»
rcfox Is Z supposed to work with more than two things? 11:59
moritz_ yes
and it's a known limitation that it doesn't
rcfox Ah.
masak ditto X.
rcfox rakudo: my @x = 1..4; for @x.rotate(-1) Z @x Z @x.rotate(1) -> $a,$b,$c { say "$a $b $c"; } 12:00
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<Z>'. Available candidates are:␤:()␤:(Any $lhs, Any $rhs)␤␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/SdpsIL_yQF␤»
TiMBuS what makes $.foo different to self.foo ?
rcfox Otherwise, szabgab could do this ^
moritz_ TiMBuS: different syntax, and $ implies item context
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TiMBuS i just thought it was short for 'self', i don't think i've read about it in the spec 12:01
rcfox "$.foo(1,2,3); # calls self.foo under $ context" 12:03
perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#Attributes
TiMBuS ooh ok. 12:05
bbkr thinks that tickets in RT should have some status indicating that issue is resolved but tests are missing 12:06
rcfox rakudo: class c { method foo {say "hi";}; method bar {$.foo;}}; my $a = c.new; $a.bar; 12:07
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«hi␤»
masak moritz_: does it make sense to put 'our multi pack' in src/code/Buf.pm ? 12:09
moritz_ masak: yes
12:09 envi^home joined
masak makes it so 12:09
bbkr rakudo: say "/j #test" # just curious :))) 12:10
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«/j #test␤»
12:11 TimToady joined
[Coke] bbkr: that is "assigned to moritz" 12:11
masak std: role Parametric[::T] {}; constant PStr := Parametric[Str];
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed constant at /tmp/hcUEVrymJ0 line 1:␤------> [32mrole Parametric[::T] {}; constant PStr :[33m⏏[31m= Parametric[Str];[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ coloncircumfix␤ signature␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
[Coke] bbkr: not the most intuitive status, I admit.
12:11 arnsholt joined
bbkr [Coke]: indeed :) 12:12
rakudo: say "abc\\b\\bz"
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«abcz␤»
takadonet morning all
12:13 stepnem joined
masak takadonet: \\o 12:13
takadonet masak: how are u sir?
masak takadonet: busy but in a good way. :)
takadonet: and u?
takadonet masak: busy in both good and bad ways 12:14
bbkr rakudo: $0 12:16
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output ) 12:17
moritz_ rakudo: say $0.perl # /me expects Any 12:19
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Any␤»
moritz_ my oracle works :-)
bbkr where to put tests for rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=72956 ? t/spec/S05-match/capturing-contexts.t ?
gfldex szabgab: gist.github.com/518895 12:20
ingy star: say index 'Cat in hat', 'hat'
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«7␤»
ingy star: say index 'Cat in hat', 'hatx'
p6eval star 2010.07: ( no output )
ingy huh?
gfldex gfldex: as soon as $it <== @list works, that shift magic wont be needed anymore
szabgab: as soon as $it <== @list works, that shift magic wont be needed anymore
ingy star: say 'Cat in hat'.index('hatx') 12:21
p6eval star 2010.07: ( no output )
ingy star: say 'Cat in hat'.index('hat')
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«7␤»
szabgab gfldex: reading
frettled star: say index 'Cat in hat', 'fnorblegnark'
p6eval star 2010.07: ( no output )
masak frettled: :)
moritz_ bbkr: S05-match/capturing-contexts.t works for me
ingy star: say Mu
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Mu()␤» 12:22
frettled masak \\o/
masak it shouldn't output nothing in those situations.
ingy star: if not 'Cat in hat'.index('hatx') { say "ok" }
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«ok␤»
masak but p6eval is known to be a bit of a sissy.
bbkr moritz_: thanks 12:23
masak ingy: use 'not defined', please.
szabgab gfldex: nice
masak ingy: just 'not' will give false positives for matches on position 0.
gfldex szabgab: that "last if !$current;" is ... dangerouse, but without proper iterators we can't really solve that right now
ingy masak: sure, but that wasn't my concern
masak perhaps it should be :)
szabgab last if !@foo.elems
ingy masak: it's not a production eval :P 12:24
masak er. but people might read your code for idioms, etc...
besides, why would you want to write suboptimal code just to save one word?
moritz_ straw poll: should string-eval catch expressions? [ ] yes [ ] no [ ] huh? [ ] don't care 12:25
masak 'catch expressions'?
what kind of expressions?
moritz_ s/expression/exceptions/
moritz_ should wake up
masak oh. :)
12:26 drbean joined
moritz_ straw poll: should string-eval catch exceptions? [ ] yes [ ] no [ ] huh? [ ] don't care 12:26
now with sense :-)
masak moritz_: and you're excepting "die"-type exceptions, right? those are a no-brainer.
moritz_ masak: any kind of run-time or compile-time error
colomon szabgab: last if ?@foo 12:27
better than !@foo.elems
masak moritz_: [X] yes
moritz_ you can leave out the ? entirely
dolmen rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say (@a-1)
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«2␤»
moritz_ notes a "yes" vote
szabgab colomon: what is ? ?
moritz_ boolean context
colomon what moritz_ said
masak moritz_: [X] yes # trying to game the system :)
colomon and if you use it on an @array, it returns True if there are elements left, without counting them. 12:28
szabgab then ?@foo is not good
moritz_ notes -1 "yes" votes
szabgab maybe !?foo ?
masak moritz_: :P
colomon last unless ?@foo
12:28 rgrau joined
colomon (sorry) 12:28
szabgab I hate unless
I always have to DeMorgan it
moritz_ last if !@foo 12:29
12:29 mysterious_stran joined
mysterious_stran moritz_: [X] yes 12:29
colomon moritz_++ again
moritz_ records 0.01 'yes' votes :-)
masak notes that freenode's webchat has an upper nick length limit 12:30
frettled masak: is it different from that of IRC?
masak frettled: there's one for IRC?
moritz_ anybody else want to vote?
frettled masak: yes.
tadzik [X] huh?
ingy star: say Bool::Tru
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«Can not find sub Bool::Tru␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
ingy star: say Bool::True
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«1␤»
pugssvn r31951 | bbkr++ | [t/spec] tests for # RT #72956 $0 when $/ is undefined causes Rakudo to give an error 12:31
tadzik moritz_: You mean if 'eval "foobar()"; given $! { bla bla }' should work?
frettled masak: originally 9 characters, but extended to 16 or something like that in recent years.
masak: well, originally nicks didn't exist, only numbers, but that's long ago.
masak wow. numbers.
moritz_ tadzik: I think that eval "foobar()" should throw an excpetion if foobar() throws one 12:32
and I want to know if people generally agree
dolmen rakudo: my @a = 0..8; for map { (@a[$_-1], @a[$_], @a[$_+1]) }, 1..(@a-1) -> $prv, $cur, $nxt { ($prv, $cur, $nxt).perl.say } 12:33
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«(0, 1, 2)␤(1, 2, 3)␤(2, 3, 4)␤(3, 4, 5)␤(4, 5, 6)␤(5, 6, 7)␤(6, 7, 8)␤(7, 8, Any)␤»
moritz_ currently eval '...' catches all exceptions, which seems like an old-perl anachronism
tadzik moritz_: so eval "foobar()" would no longer silence die() line in Perl 5?
masak moritz_: I'd say one thing in favour of that: it would make people abuse abuse &eval as a try { ... } less.
dolmen my @a = 0..8; for map { (@a[$_-1], @a[$_], @a[$_+1]) }, 1..(@a-2) -> $prv, $cur, $nxt { ($prv, $cur, $nxt).perl.say }
moritz_ tadzik: correct
dolmen rakudo: my @a = 0..8; for map { (@a[$_-1], @a[$_], @a[$_+1]) }, 1..(@a-2) -> $prv, $cur, $nxt { ($prv, $cur, $nxt).perl.say } 12:34
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«(0, 1, 2)␤(1, 2, 3)␤(2, 3, 4)␤(3, 4, 5)␤(4, 5, 6)␤(5, 6, 7)␤(6, 7, 8)␤»
tadzik moritz_: [X] don't care then
moritz_ records another vote
gfldex gfldex.post('http://gfldex.wordpre...-value/');
dolmen szabgab: see above
masak moritz_: but I fear it'd make people write try { eval "..." } until they cursed the originator of that separation.
gfldex gfldex.blog++;
tadzik
.oO( isn't that vote a no-op? )
masak tadzik: no, of course not :)
bbkr rakudo: class Boo { method new() { } }; say Boo.new.WHAT; # #72836
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
tadzik *relief* 12:35
masak bbkr: I see no bug there.
frettled masak: My guess is that the current extended nick length limit came with UTF-8 support, first appearing around 2002 or so.
szabgab dolmen: looking but not understanding
bbkr masak: indeed, I was just reconfirming on current build before committing tests
masak bbkr: ah, I see now. keep up the good work. :) 12:36
moritz_ pmichaud++ fixed all the Null PMC accesses from empty statement lists
dolmen szabgab: you asked " can I loop over an array and make it easy to look at the previous and the next element as well or do I need to loop over the indexes for this?"
frettled masak: Ah, Freenode's limit is 16 chars.
szabgab gfldex: you can fix the !$current
by replaceing it by !@foo as we discussed 12:37
ingy star say '' ?? 'x' !! 'y'
szabgab dolmen: I am not yet understanding how does it do it :)
ingy star: say '' ?? 'x' !! 'y'
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«y␤»
dolmen szabgab: ah, ok
szabgab: 1..(@a-2) is all the indexes except the first one and the last one 12:38
ingy moritz_: who maintains Test.pm?
moritz_ ingy: the Rakudo developers
ingy I found a small bug
:P
tadzik it's hiding under the bed 12:39
moritz_ ingy: mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
tadzik looks for a shoe
moritz_ ingy: of course you're welcome to discuss it here too
ingy star: use Test; ok('foo')
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
dolmen szabgab: the map extracts the 3 values (prev, current, next) from the array for each index
szabgab dolmen: oh yes a map and a for
ingy with no label parameter, ok(1) should output "ok 1\\n" 12:40
not "ok 1 - \\n"
moritz_ does the TAP spec say that?
ingy that's p5 output
moritz_ does the TAP spec say that?
masak :)
tadzik that's shotgun debugging 12:41
gfldex szabgab: that doesn't work because you skip the last iteration
masak fwiw, regardless of what it says, I think ingy's suggestion looks nicer.
tadzik
.oO( I added a labels to avoid this ugly 'ok x - ' a few times)
12:41 oha joined
ingy moritz_: we recently made changes to p6 Test.pm to exactly replicate p5 output 12:41
moritz_ agreed. But it's only a bug if the TAP specs requires it be Ok 1\\n
ingy ok, screw it
I really don't care 12:42
I just noticed in my tests
tadzik maybe this is to encourage writing labels
moritz_ it's probably more in the spirit to keep Test.pm simple
ingy tadzik: no, it's a poor port
moritz_ we currently route all tests through proclaim() 12:43
tadzik well, it won't bring much complication to Test.pm imho
moritz_ I won't reject patches for it :-)
tadzik but not sure I must say
ingy I'll fix it later
with meh new comitz bitz 12:44
Casan tadzik: following the conversation before about 'resetting' object data, I was wondering, would Nil also help to undeclare a declared object and thus render it into nothing, and freeing up the memory, or is this over in the DESTROY department?
szabgab gfldex: so make it : last if !@foo and !$current; 12:45
that fails only if the last element is Any(), I think
TiMBuS why is my font so huge on the rt? :/ 12:46
moritz_ TiMBuS: because you pressed Ctrl +? 12:47
TiMBuS it looks like i am yelling
moritz_ or ctrl + mousewheel
gfldex rakudo: sub foo(){ return (1,2,undef) }; say foo();
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of undef as a value; in Perl 6 please use something more specific:␤ Mu (the "most undefined" type object),␤ an undefined type object such as Int,␤ Nil as an empty list,␤ *.notdef as a matcher or method,␤ Any:U as a type constraint␤
.. or fail() as a failur…
moritz_ rakudo++
TiMBuS no moritz_, just my replies
gfldex how do i return a list that contains an undefined value?
moritz_ just return an undefined value 12:48
like Int
or Any
TiMBuS rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=77038 for example,
dolmen rakudo: say (,).perl 12:49
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
moritz_ TiMBuS: looks only a bit above average to me
takadonet what server is #perl5 on? 12:51
TiMBuS is there a font tag or something im misusing? 12:52
tadzik Casan: ask ingy, he wanted that
moritz_ takadonet: there's a #perl on both freenode and irc.perl.org
gfldex szabgab: updated: gist.github.com/518895
takadonet moritz_: thanks
pugssvn r31952 | bbkr++ | [t/spec] tests for # RT #72836 Null PMC access when using value from empty routine
dolmen masak: is ufo yet another ExtUtils::MakeMaker ?
masak dolmen: I don't know, because I don't know that module. 12:53
dolmen masak: with the same reliance on 'make'?
tadzik dolmen: ufo creates Makefile
masak dolmen: but it's strictly for developers, not for users of the module.
tadzik which can build, test and install the module
dolmen masak: schwern.dreamhosters.com/talks/Make...de005.html 12:56
masak dolmen: understood. 12:58
ingy ALL TESTS PASS! \\o/ and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
masak dolmen: and I actually buy that premise.
tadzik then I guess we should remove ufo from module installed to be fashionable
* installers
pugssvn r31953 | moritz++ | [t/spec] correct and re-fudge ignorecase.t for rakudo
moritz_ tadzik: I don't think so
masak dolmen: please write an all-Perl6 tool that does what ufo does, and I'll happily refer to it.
dolmen :) 12:59
moritz_ tadzik: it's the best we have for now
tadzik moritz_: me neither :)
it's just my comment
masak: can ufo install bin/?
masak tadzik: don't think so. 13:00
tadzik masak: actually, that was an encouragement to think about implementing this :)
masak tadzik: excellent idea. I accept patches 24/7.
tadzik as long as module installers use ufo as a backend
masak: sure thing, I can't promise anything though
oha hello!
masak right. that's how it works :) 13:01
tadzik :)
masak o hai oha!
tadzik oha: o/
oha masak, any news on Buf?
masak oha: yes, I have a &pack function running locally now.
dolmen: I want to reiterate that ufo is not meant to build/install things on the user side of things. so it's not an analogue to MakeMaker. 13:02
oha masak++
bbkr std: my $a = "oh hai"; say $a .= "uc"()
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Useless use of quotes at /tmp/T6fz4pm_PO line 1:␤------> [32mmy $a = "oh hai"; say $a .= "uc"[33m⏏[31m()[0m␤ Unsupported use of .= as append operator; in Perl 6 please use ~= at /tmp/T6fz4pm_PO line 1:␤------> [32mmy $a = "oh hai"; say $a
...=[33m⏏[3…
bbkr rakudo: my $a = "oh hai"; say $a .= "uc"() 13:03
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak oha: I have H* so far. any directives in particular I should focus on for you?
oha masak, H* ?
masak oha: in the template string.
oha: H* is "as many hex digits as you have into bytes" 13:04
(most significant digit first)
moritz_ S05 says that :c/:continue defaults to $/.to
at what level does this default apply? action methods?
oha masak, i must see it to say. have you seen the Buf_hack.pm i've sent you?
masak moritz_: not sure I understand the question.
dolmen rakudo: say :(Int).perl 13:05
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«:(Int )␤»
masak oha: yes, but I think I must look at it again.
dolmen rakudo: say :(Array of Int).perl
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Method '!select' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/xd_KNx9eAa␤»
masak dolmen: new bug?
moritz_ masak: right now :c produces the same as c => True
masak: and not c => $/.to
masak moritz_: nod
moritz_ so, there must be some magic
masak right.
moritz_ where does this magic happen?
dolmen masak: don't know. Just experimenting with Signatures
masak moritz_: oh! 13:06
masak submits rakudobug
moritz_ waitwaitwait
masak (the Array of Int one)
moritz_ ok
I thought you meant :c :-)
masak many people talking at once :)
dolmen rakudo: my Array of Int @a = 1, 2, 3; 13:07
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Method '!select' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/OgwZuMC6ng␤»
dolmen rakudo: my Array Int @a = 1, 2, 3;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤In "my" declaration, typename Array must be predeclared (or marked as declarative with :: prefix) at line 22, near " Int @a = "␤»
dolmen rakudo: my Int @a = 1, 2, 3;
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
pugssvn r31954 | moritz++ | [t/spec] correct continue.t
dolmen masak: is "of" a keyword? 13:08
moritz_ dolmen: it's a trait
afaict
dolmen rakudo: my Array Int $a = 1, 2, 3; 13:10
bbkr rakudo: say try { die }
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤In "my" declaration, typename Array must be predeclared (or marked as declarative with :: prefix) at line 22, near " Int $a = "␤»
rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/9blziL7Eek␤»
tadzik rakudo: say ((5i - 5) * (5i + 5)).perl 13:11
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Complex.new(-50, 0)␤»
tadzik Couldn't it end up as Int?
dolmen std: my Array of Int @a = 1, 2, 3; 13:12
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
dolmen std: say :(Array of Int).perl
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 115m␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say 'foo'.samecase('HE') 13:13
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
tadzik oh
rakudo: say 'foobar'.samecase('AaAaAaAa')
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«FoObAr␤»
tadzik rakudo: say 'foobar'.samecase('Aa')
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Foobar␤»
dolmen rakudo: sub x(Array of Int $x) { $x } 13:14
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: ( no output )
dolmen looks like signatures are not completely parsed outside sub declarations 13:15
13:16 xuser left
tadzik pugs/docs/talk is open for talks in any language? 13:18
(talks)
moritz_ yes
tadzik mind me pushing "What's going on in Perl 6" in Polish and Catalan version? 13:19
moritz_ feel free
oha i was thinking on some enanchement on Buf
i was writing a Gearman::Client module here 13:21
masak tadzik: I'd love to read that. yes, please push them.
oha and after arranging IO::Socket::INET and adding some methods on Buf i was able to make it work
masak oha has been helping me in my thinking around Buf and pack in the last few days.
oha++
oha ty masak
here is my idea
tadzik masak: sure thing
oha Buf may be considered a FIFO
so i could, for example: $buf = $sock.recv(12); # get 12 bytes 13:22
then my $type = $buf.poll(network-int); 13:23
or when i must write:
13:23 Holy_Cow joined
oha $buf.append($int); $sock.send($buf); 13:23
moritz_ rakudo: say "abc def" ~~ m:s/abc def/
oha the append/poll/peek could be simple methods like: .pollNetworkInt(); 13:24
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«abc def␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say "abc\\ndef" ~~ m:s/abc def/
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«abc␤def␤»
13:24 ruoso joined
oha or using a pack-like grammar 13:24
masak I believe that oha's suggestions about FIFO Buf might make a cute module.
the pack-like grammar would make another one.
one that I'd really really like to use :)
oha my ($i0, $i1, $s0) = $buff.poll("IIS");
or using a grammar 13:25
$buff.poll("<nint>**2 <nullstring(ascii)>"
dalek kudo: a9912e1 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
bind $/ in m// calls, by advise from pmichaud++
 13:26
kudo: 656170d | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
disable non-working modifiders on m// for now
kudo: a389b27 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run ignorecase.t and ii.t test files
oha that could also be implemented (for the unpack) using regex, just allowing them to "switch" encoding 13:27
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masak afk 13:28
pugssvn r31955 | tadzik++ | Added "What's going on in Perl 6" talks, in Polish and Catalan version 13:30
tadzik masak: ↑
yay, it works 13:31
pugssvn r31956 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fudge ii.t for rakudo 13:34
r31957 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fudge sigspace.t for rakudo 13:35
13:35 AndreasX joined 13:37 _ilbot2 joined
moderator »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Guest23195 joined
bbkr rakudo: "abc".samecase(Failure).say # error message seems to be LTA, should I report? 13:40
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Method 'comb' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in 'Cool::samecase' at line 2152:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/uMCuvp7JIr␤»
moritz_ bbkr: no, I can fix that easily
bbkr moritz++ 13:41
moritz_ I have a fix, spectesting it now 13:42
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tadzik pb.rbfh.de/654PCSnXqh1D # how do I read bytes from a file? 13:47
moritz_ have you tried open('file').read(16)? 13:48
tadzik yeah, I should have opened it first. That works, yep. moritz_ 13:49
moritz_++
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 14:26
tadzik good $localtime pmichaud
moritz_ good morning pmichaud
pmichaud: fancy another regex+modifiers discussion? :-)
pmichaud moritz_: sure 14:27
moritz_ pmichaud: S05 says that :continue and :pos default to $/.to
pmichaud: where should the logic for those defaults go?
pmichaud I think nqp-rx already has it.
colomon pmichaud: o/
oha i've tried to summarize my ideas about Buf in a pod: register.oha.it/buf.pod 14:28
moritz_ pmichaud: and it knows which $/ to take?
oha pmichaud, hi
moritz_ and how do I trigger it?
I mean, what value do I pass in so that it picks up the default?
pmichaud simply :pos or :continue as true values, I think.
moritz_ rakudo: 'abc' ~~ /./; say 'abc' ~~ m:continue/./ 14:29
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«b␤»
moritz_ rakudo: 'abc' ~~ /../; say 'abc' ~~ m:continue/./
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«b␤»
pmichaud I think nqp only knows :c and :p at the moment. 14:30
moritz_ seems like it uses the 1 (which is the true value) as position
rakudo: 'abc' ~~ /../; say 'abc' ~~ m:c/./
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«b␤»
pmichaud and you're correct, it's always using 1
so that logic needs to be changed to check for true
moritz_ we do need to support :c($integer) though
pmichaud actually, for now it would probably be better to do :c(ontinue) in rakudo than nqp, then. 14:31
so, the short answer is that :continue should translate into :c(Int)
moritz_ currently the easist approach would be to do it at the syntax level
pmichaud right
that's fine
moritz_ ok
pmichaud I don't think nqp can be looking at $/, because there might not be one 14:32
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pmichaud so it needs to happen at the rakudo level (for now at least) 14:32
moritz_ I kinda feared you wouldn't think so, because it requires some special-casing
rakudo: say 'abcdef' ~~ m:continue(3)/./
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«d␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say 'abcdef' ~~ m:c(3)/./
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«d␤» 14:33
moritz_ so far regex modifiers look pretty good in rakudo
pmichaud yes.
masak tadzik: thanks; will look.
tadzik masak: out of curiosity, do you happen to know any of those languages? :) 14:34
moritz_ the only thing that makes my head ache is a match returning more than one value
masak tadzik: not to any greater extent, no. but I expect to understand much of the Catalan one.
moritz_ rakudo: 'abc' ~~ /(.)+/; .say for $/.list
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤» 14:35
tadzik still haven't caght alexm++ to ask how did the preseting go
moritz_ pmichaud: btw that's the Match bug I told you about at YAPC
moritz_ reports
14:36 nadim_ joined
moritz_ rakudo: 'abc' ~~ /(.)+/; say $0 14:36
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«abc␤»
moritz_ rakudo: 'abc' ~~ /(.)+/; say ~$0 14:37
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
pmichaud I don't see the bug.
moritz_ $0 is an array
$/.list should return $0
pmichaud oh, it should be an itemized array 14:38
masak that's by spec.
pmichaud rakudo: 'abc' ~~ /(.)+/; say $0.WHAT
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
pmichaud right
moritz_ so only $0.flat should flatten it out
pmichaud okay, no problem.
let me get my compile configuration up and running again 14:39
travel and conferences and new tools tend to muck up my build environment :)
moritz_ git reset --hard origin/master # don't do that unless you know what you're doing :-)
pmichaud actually, I'll let you try the fix :) 14:40
in src/builtins/Cursor.pir, change
.sub 'new_array' :method $P0 = new ['Array'] .return ($P0) 14:41
.end
to
.sub 'new_array' :method
$P0 = get_hll_global 'Array'
$P0 = $P0.'new'()
$P0 = $P0.'item'()
.return ($P0)
.end
moritz_ tries
pmichaud that brings new_array into creating "real" Rakudo Arrays 14:42
afk for a bit, tutoring
dalek kudo: 21b3c7c | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run another test file
kudo: 43f00da | moritz++ | src/core/Cool-str.pm:
type-constraint samecase() pattern to Cool
nadim_ Hi guys, I was looking in perlbuzz.com/2010/08/diving-into-perl-6.html and one thing caught my eye. Since typing is more prevalent in P6, I expected type inference to be an intrisic part of the interpreter. example: 14:45
my Int @candidates; ... push @candidates, $n.Int;
later I read for @candidates -> Int $x { ...
tadzik is it possible to declare mkdir taking one obligatory and one optional parameter, without breaking original mkdir?
moritz_ rakudo: say &mkdir.signature.perl 14:46
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Perl6MultiSub'␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say &mkdir.candidates[0].signature.perl
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«:(Any $path, Any $mode = { ... })␤»
nadim_ Extracting the .Int part and putting anything into 4x is "obviously" to be of Int type since @candidates is just that
moritz_ it's already defined like this
nadim_ that'ts auite a lot of code that need to be qwriten for something that can be infered. How does it work in reality? 14:47
pugssvn r31958 | patrickas++ | series with one scalar containing Code on the LHS 14:48
tadzik moritz_: so as long as I'm declaring multis taking something else than 2 obligaory parameters everything should be ok?
moritz_ nadim_: in rakudo, typed arrays suck. In Perl 6 too.
alester Why do they suck, moritz_ ? 14:49
Should I not have done it like that/
nadim_ alester: hi
alester nadim_: (That post on perlbuzz was mine)
squeeky pmichaud: ping
moritz_ tadzik: the existing multi has one mandatory and one optional parameter. If you do the same, you'll get conflicts
nadim_ I don't mind it being sucky in rakudo, I wonder what p6 intention is
tadzik oh, righ 14:50
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(Int @a) { say @a.perl }; f([1, 2, 3])
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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tadzik moritz_: but if it wouldn't be multi, it will just hide the original mkdir? 14:50
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(Int @a) { say @a.perl }; f([1, 2, 3]); say "alive"
patrickas moritz_: sure I want to!
phenny patrickas: 08:55Z <moritz_> tell patrickas if you want to hack a bit more on MAIN, you could try to implement short options, ie :foo(:$f) in a signature allows both --foo and -f options. $param.named_names should give you a list of all alias names
p6eval rakudo fcf4f3: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '@a'; expected Positional[Int] but got Array instead␤ in 'f' at line 22:/tmp/HeTHuGZ42T␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/HeTHuGZ42T␤»
moritz_ tadzik: right
alester How do you mean "sucky"?
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moritz_ alester: that's what I mean 14:50
alester It seems to me that "my Int @candidates" would be swell.
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nadim_ alester: moritz_ said it sucked 14:51
alester Right, I don't get what is sucky. I'm missing something.
patrickas does anyone object to this patch to rakudo ? :-) github.com/patrickas/rakudo/commit/...9e538b57c0
moritz_ alester: if you declare something as Int @a, you also have to declare things that are bound or assigned to it as Array[Int]
alester What's wrong with that? 14:52
nadim_ alester: forget about the adjective it was meant for the p6 typed array not your code
moritz_ alester: it's just not convenient
alester nadim_: No, I understand, i wasn't insulted. :-)
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moritz_ and it surprises people 14:52
nadim_ alester: I knew you wouldn't
alester Meaning you can't say "my @b = @a" without making @b explicitly Int first?
moritz_ if you're fine with that, there's no problem (except implementation problems)
alester: right
alester Yeah I would expect that @b would get the Intness for free. 14:53
nadim_ moritz_: it is more than surprising, it is a bit embarassing
moritz_ whereas my Foo $x = $b; works if $b contains a Foo, it doesn't need to be declared as such
tadzik hmm, undef == Any()?
moritz_ Any is one of the many undefs
nadim_: I did say it sucked, no? :-)
[Coke] (many undefs) definitely need an article on that. 14:54
nadim_ moritz_: is $x = $b supposed to transfer type information to $x so the right optimization can be applied?
moritz_ nadim_: you have to be a bit more precise 14:55
nadim_: a value has type information, and a container can has type constraints
$x = $b preserves the type information of the value, and leaves the type constraint of the container unchanged
nadim_ declaring something to be of a certain type is for a certain purpose (I don't mind which) is that purpose transfered to $x? 14:57
moritz_ the programming language knows nothinga about purpose. Only the programmer does.
nadim_ IE Int was used, I guess, to use real hardware ints, will the $x also use HW ints although it was not declared as Int? 14:58
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moritz_ Int is an bignum type 14:59
there are lower-case int32, int63 "native" types, which have special rules
oha moritz_, are there implemented in rakudo? 15:00
colomon (Int is hardware int at the moment in Rakudo, of course.)
moritz_ oha: no
colomon oha: no
moritz_ colomon: so it fails at both ends (speed and auto-upgrading) :-)
colomon moritz_: yup
moritz_ otoh, my Int $x; can hold an undefined value, which a native type couldn't 15:01
nadim_ it doesn't matter what it is in reality. I am more interrested in the knowing if the optimization associated with a type is also assigned to an untyped scalar assigned from a typed scalar
moritz_ and mix-ins
colomon but you wouldn't say my int32 $x = 10 to get a hardware int, anyway.
moritz_ nadim_: for assignment, it's not. For binding, it is
at least the type-check part 15:02
nadim_ any special reason why assignment doesn't?
moritz_ the optimization part always depends on how much can be statically known about the container at compile time
nadim_ I think I'm going to reread RFC 4 seriously
moritz_ nadim_: yes. We want my $x = 3; $x = 'foo'; to not throw an error 15:03
if my $x = 3; type-check $x to Int, the subsequent assignment would fail
s/check/checked/
nadim_ that has nothing to do with getting the optimisation to $x
moritz_ it has
nadim_ Sorry, it doesn't 15:04
moritz_ maybe not in your ideal world
but in the real world of a compiler, it does
nadim_ while containing an Int, $x can profit of all optimisations
moritz_ if we know that at compile time, yes
but that requires constant folding and control flow analysis
nadim_ right 15:05
moritz_ and is only doable in certain cases
nadim_ and also the optimization can (I am not saying it is fast, right, must) be done at run time too
moritz_ wheras it's much easier to always know the constraint type at compile time
szabgab masak: could you please take a look atmy html-template fork and integrate it if possible?
moritz_ nadim_: yes, but the run-time optimization is the job of the JIT compiler, not of the HLL compiler 15:06
masak szabgab: sure. possibly not today, though. I don't want to context-switch right now.
nadim_ moritz_: and I guess that ywould be implementation specific, not specified in p6
moritz_ nadim_: correct
masak moritz_: allow me to take exception to your 'typed arrays suck in Perl 6' statement. I think we're in a sort of sweet spot where we are right now. 15:07
moritz_ nadim_: in general the p6 spec allows lot of optimization, and requires little
nadim_ I'll be bold and say that it should be specified or the mistaked done by the C language are going to be repeated. 15:08
moritz_ what exactly should be specified?
nadim_ moritz_: thank you for your answers, great job with Rakudo.
moritz_ bows
masak moritz_: more precisely, Int @foo in a parameter list needs to accept only Int @bar from the outside, because of the possibility of lazy infinite lists. 15:09
nadim_ moritz_: great job with Rakudo. (nadim thinks he found a "bow button")
oha i've updated the pod, i'll be really interested about what all you think: register.oha.it/buf.pod
masak seems people are trying to hack moritz_++ today :) 15:10
moritz_ has a built-in repetition preventer - at least for some things
what should ('abc' ~~ / (.) ** 2 (.)/).caps return? 15:11
0 => 'a', 0 => 'b', 1 => 'c' ?
oha moritz_, i would expect ((a,b),c)
moritz_ oha: have you read the spec for .caps? 15:12
oha nope :)
you are right
i just probably get confused by P::RD here
masak moritz_: 0 => <a b>, 1 => 'c', p'haps? 15:13
moritz_ masak: that would work for .caps, but would fail to extend to .chunks 15:15
masak hm, guess so. 15:16
moritz_ 'a b c' ~~ /[(\\S) \\s] ** 2 (.)/ -> $/.chunks
squeeky Most likey tonight western US time rakudo star will be available for mac homebrew people. \\o/
moritz_ \\o/
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masak I haven't used either .caps or .chunks enough to be familiar/condifent with them. 15:17
squeeky: yay
squeeky I still find it completely ironic that it's Ruby running Perl 5 to install Perl 6. 15:19
patrickas can I send a pull request for one commit from github ? or will the pull request be for my whole fork? 15:20
moritz_ I guess it will be for the whole fork
masak squeeky: that's not irony. that's pragmatics. 15:21
moritz_ better if you submit to RT, and include the link to the specific commit
patrickas moritz_ ok thanks
squeeky true.
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patrickas the thing is it does not solve any bug .... but i am dyiiiing to submit it :-) at least for review :-) 15:22
masak then RT sounds fine. 15:23
wow, 670 new/open/stalled tickets on RT! \\o/ 15:25
rakudo: enum A::B <a b c>; say b; say "alive" 15:27
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«alive␤»
masak :(
patrickas ok i then rt it is 15:28
masak rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=71460 doesn't Null PMC any more, but the fact that it doesn't print "1\\n" is... worrying.
how can output just disappear like that?
moritz_ there are some cases of misguided excpetions that just tear down say() statements 15:29
masak does that imply that there's an exception-catching mechanism within &say? 15:30
moritz_ maybe the execution terminates silently, could also be the case 15:32
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masak no; see 'say "alive"' above. 15:34
oha rakudo: enum T(a=>2); say a; say 'E'; 15:35
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«2␤E␤»
pmichaud rakudo: enum ABC <a b c>; say b;
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«1␤»
pmichaud rakudo: enum ABC::DEF <a b c>; say b; 15:36
p6eval rakudo a389b2: ( no output )
pmichaud
.oO( clue )
moritz_ oha++ told me in private message about a small Match dumper he has written, which shows the structure of a match tree much terser than $/.perl 15:37
oha moritz_, i can share it, just 3 loc
pmichaud how do we make it less private? ;-)
moritz_ should we have something like that in core? or in an extra module?
patrickas oha++ indeed!
pmichaud I'd need to see it before knowing how to answer. 15:38
patrickas i got RT# 77162 for me review request :-) (Sorry for the spam)
jnthn back again
oha augment class Match {
method dump ($d=0) {
my $s = ' 'x$d;
my @caps = self.caps;
return "=> $(self)\\n" unless @caps;
return (@caps[0].key//'?') ~ " " ~ @caps[0].value.dump($d) if @caps == 1;
moritz_ pmichaud: I kinda assumed it was the "I don't want to spam the world" private, and not the "It's sekrit" private :-)
oha return "\\n" ~ @caps.map({
"$s " ~ ($_.key||'?') ~ " " ~ $_.value.dump($d+1);
}).join;
};
[particle] points oha at nopaste
patrickas welcome back again jnthn
colomon I've been thinking of doing something like a Utils::List module (name??) which contains simple implementations of handy tools not spec'd and lots of tests. Seems like oha might want to start something similar for Match?
jnthn o/ pmichaud - hope you had a safe journey back :-)
o/ patrickas 15:39
rcfox oha: That's more than 3 lines of code.
pmichaud jnthn: journey was fine
long, but fine :)
hope your journey was enjoyable :)
moritz_ colomon: maybe that's a good idea
rcfox oha: Also, what about putting it in a role so that you don't have to augment the class?
pmichaud in general, I'd like to see .perl be able to do nicer formatting 15:40
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pmichaud (also, I have a few qualms about .perl's specification as well, especially as it relates to item/list handling) 15:40
jnthn pmichaud: Yes, I had a very relaxing few days break (well, in the sense of different rather than just sitting around :-))
moritz_ pmichaud: one of the problems of Match.perl is that it includes the original string within each submatch 15:41
we could emit this instead:
do { my $*O = "abc\\ndef"; Match.new(orig => $*O, from => 0, to => 1) } 15:42
and re-use $*O for all inner Match object
oha pmichaud, also, the dump is not something which can be interpreted as perl, but just a very compact output for big trees: nopaste.snit.ch/22694
moritz_ but the fact remains that dumping a Match for human inspection is a very different goal than for re-eval()ing
oha moritz_, it would be very difficult to know what has been matched this way 15:43
moritz_, indeed
pmichaud oha: sure -- I'm just thinking it'd be nice if .perl could also be more human-friendly
moritz_ maybe we should have a .human along with .perl :-)
oha a sort of .perl(:human) ? :)
pmichaud yes, I was just thinking that ".dump" isn't the right name :)
maybe .fmt ? ;-) 15:44
moritz_ .fmt is taken
.structure
.overview
oha .human isn't that bad
moritz_ .human
right :-)
oha it is like .perl but not for perl, but for humans :)
squeeky .fml ?
moritz_ exactly
.fmh "for mere humans" :-)
oha .perl is parseable by perl, .human is pareable by human :)
pmichaud in general, I suppose .human could default to .perl 15:45
moritz_ agreed
colomon +1
pmichaud I'm not opposed to adding .human into rakudo for now, to experiment with the idea
then see if it gets adopted as spec 15:46
moritz_ +1
pmichaud it could also be a module to begin with
oha pmichaud, could default to .perl iff then .perl can know it then have to call .human on the childs
tadzik maybe something like perl.pretty?
but that'd be a string method then
pmichaud .pretty
tadzik .pretty is nice too
pugssvn r31959 | moritz++ | [t/spec] adjust some Match.caps and Match.chunks tests to my new understanding of nested match objects. Also fixes an unrelated plan 15:47
pmichaud oha: I would not expect .perl to ever call .human (nor should it need to)
in general we'd only call .perl for simple data structures
oha pmichaud, i can see your point
moritz_, regarding .caps, does the fix on nqp (flickering caps) got in rakudo now? 15:48
pmichaud although this does somewhat argue that we'd like to have .dump(:pretty) and .dump(:perl)
moritz_ oha: yes
pmichaud so that a .dump could take advantage of mmd
tadzik that's a lot of typing
pmichaud .perl would default to .dump(:perl)
but this also allows .dump to take other useful options, like indentation level 15:49
.human could default to .dump(:pretty)
oha pmichaud, and if there is no "human" flavour, it may use perl, but the childs will again be invoked "human" and eventually fallback
pmichaud oha: exactly.
oha pmichaud, which is what i was trying to say above :)
pmichaud oha: right 15:50
moritz_ the idea is nice, but might suffer from having too many objects in Mu/Any
pmichaud but it's not .perl that makes the decision -- it's the .dump that does
i.e., a .dump that doesn't know how to :pretty or :perl can just do whatever it thinks is correct.
oha pmichaud++
pmichaud but it still passes the options on to any .dump's that it calls.
oha pmichaud, that seems to me a big rewriting anyway. alot of .perl() are around 15:51
pmichaud oha: oh, it's not nearly so big.
.perl is easy to write.
oha but if you had a .dump() on Mu which call .perl()
pmichaud oha: I still claim that's backwards. 15:52
oha i think this would be a start
pmichaud .perl should call .dump, not the other way around.
oha then .perl() must just be rewritten to call .dump
exactly
dalek kudo: a47c455 | moritz++ | src/builtins/Cursor.pir:
[Match] return itemized arrays for quantified positional captures
pmichaud moritz_: did it work?
moritz_ pmichaud: like a charm 15:53
$ ./perl6 -e '.say for ("abc" ~~ /(.)+/).list'
a b c
pmichaud excellent. we'll see if we take much of a speed hit... but this is definitely more correct.
I can think of a couple of other nqp-rx refactors we'll need to do, now that rakudo's assignment model is more in place. 15:54
okay, afk again for more tutoring 15:55
moritz_ as an extra bonus, $/.caps now distinguishes (.)**2 from (.)(.)
moritz_ -> afk, decommuting
masak perl5 queue on RT: the first screenful of newest new/open tickets show to four weeks ago. perl6 queue on RT: eight days ago. :) 15:56
not exclusively a source of pride, of course. but still pretty cool.
the rate of Perl 6 bugs reported is basically 4x that of Perl 5 bugs. 15:57
jnthn Accumulating bug reports. An example of something Rakudo *can* do faster than Perl 5! 15:58
colomon \\o/
patrickas submitted his first bug today :-) was always relying on other people submitting things I found 15:59
hopefully it's not a dupe
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patrickas Is there a feed for rakudo bugs ? might be a good idea to subscribe to find things one can work on! 16:02
takadonet I would use that feed
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masak I just get them into my email folders. 16:08
that's sort of a feed, right? :)
patrickas i guess ... 16:09
oha bbl 16:10
daxim needs more atom 16:13
patrickas takadonet here is the feed courtesy of masak++ www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6..../posts.xml 16:16
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tadzik masak: I added bin/ support for ufo in my fork. Also it needs no Makefile now, it can bootstrap one 16:18
masak: github.com/tadzik/ufo
masak tadzik: thanks. remind me tomorrow, and I'll merge it. 16:19
patrickas rakudo: say (1, + * ... *).munch(10).perl; #This is correct behaviour right ?
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«(1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)␤»
tadzik masak: I'll send you a pull request
I'm fleeing now, see you later #perl6 16:20
moritz_ patrickas: yes
isBEKaml rakudo: (1,1 + * ... *).munch(10).perl.say
patrickas then I guess we can close rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=74606
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)␤»
patrickas and by we i mean someone with enough privs :-) 16:21
moritz_ patrickas: do we have test coverage?
isBEKaml rakudo: (1,-1 + * ... *).munch(10).perl.say
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«(1, 0, -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6, -7, -8)␤»
isBEKaml I'm still trying to come to grips with * as a form of a closure. :) 16:22
pugssvn r31960 | moritz++ | [t/spec] test for RT #74609, 1, +* ... * series just repeats 1s 16:24
moritz_ just think of every * as a formal parameter... except when they are in the argument list of a routine
* + 5 => { $^a + 5 }
*.uc => { $^a.uc }
* + * => { $^a + $^b } 16:25
isBEKaml I just thought of them as a place holder but then, we have twigils.
masak they are that.
just shorter :)
isBEKaml :) 16:26
masak placeholder parameters are "I'm too lazy to make a signature"
* is "I'm too lazy to even name my parameters" !
moritz_ and * is "I'm too lazy for the curlies"
masak that, too :)
isBEKaml or "I'm too lazy to even see parameters " !
rakudo: (1, (-1 + *) ... *).munch(10).perl.say 16:27
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«(1, 0, -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6, -7, -8)␤» 16:28
isBEKaml rakudo++
rakudo: (1,-1 ... *).munch(10).perl.say
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«(1, -1, -3, -5, -7, -9, -11, -13, -15, -17)␤»
patrickas moritz_ I went in and added the test locallty to reply "we have a test now" and got a conflict on commit :-)
slavik I'm too lazy to write code, so I am working on STAR
moritz_ patrickas: don't bother, I was faster :-) 16:29
takadonet patrickas: thanks for the feed :)
isBEKaml is the -1 passed above to p6eval a step num?
rakudo: (1,-1 ... *).munch(10).perl.say; # What does the -1 mean here? 16:30
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«(1, -1, -3, -5, -7, -9, -11, -13, -15, -17)␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: (1,1 ... *).munch(10).perl.say;
p6eval rakudo a389b2: OUTPUT«(1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)␤»
PerlJam it's the next number in the series.
to get from 1 to -1, you had to subtract 2, so the series goes 1, -1, -3, etc. subtracting 2 each time 16:31
isBEKaml Oh, I see. shoulda' seen that! :/
patrickas moritz_ that's why I go tthe conflict ... because you had already added the test at the same line
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moritz_ patrickas: btw spectesting your patch now... looks good so far 16:34
patrickas moritz_ thanks :-) If it works it'd be my best patch ever 17 lines deleted 0 lines modified 0 lines added :-) 16:35
isBEKaml slackbuilds.org/repository/13.1/dev...nt/parrot/
\\o/
patrickas moritz_ also rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=75674 can be closed it has passing tests already
isBEKaml But rakudo didn't make it, it's still in the pending queue. :(
patrickas: people love deletion patches! :) 16:38
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patrickas rakudo: my $foo = &prefix:<!>;say $foo.signature; 16:50
p6eval rakudo a47c45: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Perl6MultiSub'␤ in main program body at line 1␤» 16:51
pmichaud that could probably be added if we know what the output should look like. 16:52
afk again 16:53
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patrickas I have no idea ... I was trying ot golf #RT 76046 16:56
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gfldex does List.sort() relies on infix:<<=>> ? 16:59
PerlJam gfldex: cmp 17:05
<=> is numeric, leg is stringy, cmp is ... smart ;) 17:06
rcfox rakudo: class foo { method postfix:<+> {say "hi";}}; my $a = foo.new; $a+;
p6eval rakudo a47c45: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "$a+;"␤»
rcfox Are there constraints for what can be postfix operators? 17:07
gfldex std: class foo { method postfix:<+> {say "hi";}}; my $a = foo.new; $a+; 17:08
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus term at /tmp/k20IObdpox line 1:␤------> [32m:<+> {say "hi";}}; my $a = foo.new; $a+[33m⏏[31m;[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
PerlJam rcfox: I don't think so. Though, if you're going to overload existing operators, you have to deal with their other uses.
rcfox std: class foo { method postfix:<-<--<> {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new; $O-<--<; 17:09
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse quote words at /tmp/uIG6RSCCgo line 1:␤------> [32mclass foo { method postfix:[33m⏏[31m<-<--<> {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new; $[0m␤Couldn't find final '>'; gave up at /tmp/uIG6RSCCgo line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32m {say "hi";}}; my $O
..…
avuserow std: class foo { method postfix:'-<--<' {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new; $O-<--<;
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed block at /tmp/IL1z9yHwVx line 1:␤------> [32mclass foo { method postfix:[33m⏏[31m'-<--<' {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new; $[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ coloncircumfix␤ signature␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 112m␤»
avuserow std: class foo { method postfix:<<-<--<>> {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new; $O-<--<; 17:10
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse quote words at /tmp/H_mgaBX5q8 line 1:␤------> [32m--<>> {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new; $O-[33m⏏[31m<--<;[0m␤Couldn't find final '>'; gave up at /tmp/H_mgaBX5q8 line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32m {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new;
..$O-<--<;[3…
avuserow std: class foo { method postfix:<< -<--< >> {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new; $O-<--<;
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse quote words at /tmp/gDELyZV53i line 1:␤------> [32m-< >> {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new; $O-[33m⏏[31m<--<;[0m␤Couldn't find final '>'; gave up at /tmp/gDELyZV53i line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32m {say "hi";}}; my $O = foo.new;
..$O-<--<;[3…
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avuserow that's an awkward operator to try to define. 17:10
rcfox Well, I'm just playing around anyway. I don't intend to make a -<--< operator. :P
gfldex < anystuffhere > is syntax, not operator
if you want to do that you have to tell the parser 17:11
by extending the perl6 grammar
rcfox :\\
I don't think it'd make it into the spec.
gfldex sounds harder then it is :)
jnthn rakudo: sub postfix:<< -<--< >> ($x) { }; say "ok" 17:13
p6eval rakudo a47c45: OUTPUT«ok␤»
jnthn rakudo: sub postfix:<< -<--< >> ($x) { }; 42-<--< 17:14
p6eval rakudo a47c45: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "42-<--<"␤»
jnthn rakudo: sub postfix:<< -<--< >> ($x) { }; 42\\-<--<
p6eval rakudo a47c45: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "42\\\\-<--<"␤»
jnthn rakudo: sub postfix:<< <--< >> ($x) { }; 42<--<
p6eval rakudo a47c45: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "42<--<"␤»
jnthn Yeah, think that one ain't really going to work out. 17:15
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pmurias ruoso: how should the smop module which initalizes everything and creates an interpreter be called? 17:23
dalek kudo: 6b318ea | (Patrick Abi Salloum)++ | src/core/operators.pm:
removed a bunch of hopefully unneeded code
 17:26
rokoteko std: sub postfix:['<--<'] () { say "hi." }; 42<--<
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 119m␤»
TiMBuS rokoteko.. that code managed to hang rakudo 17:30
rokoteko std: sub postfix:['-<--<'] is tighter:<-> () { say "hi." }; 42-<--< 17:31
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
rcfox rokoteko: Nice. 17:37
avuserow :D awesome, rokoteko++ 17:39
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rcfox Gah, I accidentally left perl6 running with the stickman. 18:17
Now my laptop is hot, and unhappy. 18:18
cognominal rcfox, what is a stickman? 18:21
rcfox sub postfix:['-<--<'] () {}; 0-<--< 18:22
STD parses it, but Rakudo just hangs.
I forgot to kill it before I went grocery shopping. 18:23
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cognominal in the Perl6 shell, should not one be able to redefine anything in the current scope. UNIT? 18:34
[Coke] colomon: ping. 18:35
colomon pong
[Coke] colomon: where is your frabujous joy?
colomon [Coke]: has thou slain the Jabberwock? 18:37
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[Coke] colomon: RT #75768 18:38
I just found the body.
colomon oh, nice! 18:40
star: say (1...10)[2...4]
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«345␤»
colomon star: say (1...10)[2..4]
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«345␤»
colomon oh, sure, it was one of *those* bugs. :) 18:41
pmichaud slew the Jabberwock a couple of weeks ago, then.
18:44 astrojp joined
jasonmay star: (1,2,4,8 ... 64)[3..5] 18:44
p6eval star 2010.07: ( no output )
colomon star: say (1,2,4,8 ... 64)[3..5] 18:46
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«81632␤»
colomon star: say ~(1,2,4,8 ... 64)[3..5]
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«8 16 32␤»
18:56 Axius joined 18:59 erichk joined
gfldex std: class A {}; class B is A {}; class C is A {}; my $b = B.new(); my $c = C.new(); my A @l; @l.push(B.new(), C.new()); @l.sort; 19:06
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
19:06 c0nspiracy_ joined, cono joined
gfldex rakudo: class A {}; class B is A {}; class C is A {}; my $b = B.new(); my $c = C.new(); my A @l; @l.push(B.new(), C.new()); @l.sort; 19:06
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤ in 'at_pos' at line 5:CORE.setting␤ in 'at_pos' at line 7:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::postcircumfix:<[ ]>' at line 1658:CORE.setting␤ in 'at_pos' at line 5:CORE.setting␤ in 'at_pos' at line 7:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::postcircumfix:<[ ]>' at 19:07
..line 165…
gfldex rakudo: class A {}; class B is A {}; class C is A {}; my $b = B.new(); my $c = C.new(); my @l; @l.push(B.new(), C.new()); @l.sort;
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: ( no output )
gfldex i is bugcat, i makes bugs
19:12 vcrini joined 19:15 Axius joined, erik_ joined 19:19 rindolf joined
rindolf Hi all. 19:20
19:20 nimiezko joined
colomon o/ 19:20
rindolf colomon: what's up? 19:21
colomon: do you only have one hand?
colomon I'm working on $work at the moment.
I only wave one hand at a time.
rindolf colomon: ah.
colomon unless I'm excited: \\o/ 19:22
PerlJam colomon: then you have no hands? 19:23
gfldex he is waving so fast that his hands blur out
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hugo_ hi 19:24
takadonet hugo_: hey 19:25
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gfldex rakudo: class A { has $.b }; my @l; @l.push(A.new(:b('peng'))); say *.b for @l; 19:25
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«_block148␤»
gfldex std: class A { has $.b }; my @l; @l.push(A.new(:b('peng'))); say *.b for @l;
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
gfldex should that work?
colomon I don't think so. 19:26
gfldex rakudo: class A { has $.b }; my @l; @l.push(A.new(:b('peng'))); *.b.say for @l;
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: ( no output )
gfldex rakudo: class A { has $.b }; my @l; @l.push(A.new(:b('peng'))); .b.say for @l;
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«peng␤»
gfldex bit odd that *.b.say doesnt work 19:27
colomon rakudo: class A { has $.b }; my @l; @l.push(A.new(:b('peng'))); say (*.b)($_) for @l;
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«peng␤»
colomon It's not odd. *.b creates a closure which takes one object and applies .b to it.
it's like -> $a { $a.b } 19:28
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gfldex i c 19:28
should the compiler warn in that case?
colomon it's a little more obvious if you think of it using map 19:29
pmurias ruoso: 'use v6-mildew' in modules works
colomon because @l.map(*.b) applies .b to each element but doesn't say it.
whereas @l.map({ say *.b }) just says the closure once for each element of @l. (thus "_block148") 19:30
gfldex i agree on what it does and why, but it's going to the noob-FAQ for sure :)
ruoso pmurias, that's awesome... and I think that fills up the gsoc requirements
rcfox What is v6-mildew? 19:32
19:33 Axius joined
pmurias ruoso: i added a main module to smop which supplies a smop_main_get_interpreter function 19:33
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gfldex if i want to provide a custom sort(ing), do i have to overload infix:<cmp> ? 19:34
awwaiid_web Greetings! I expected "7 leg 62" to give the same thing as "7 <=> 62" but it does not (in rakudo* release). Am I wrong or is Rakudo?
colomon gfldex: no, you can pass a comparison function to sort
awwaiid_web: you're wrong 19:35
gfldex colomon: that's what i don't want to do
pmurias rcfox: it's a module which allows you to put 'use v6-mildew' on top of your perl5 files to have mildew run them
colomon 7 leg 62 is effectively "7" leg "62"
awwaiid_web I thought lexographic meant numeric+alphabetical? 19:36
colomon awwaiid_web: leg is string comparison
it converts both arguments to strings, then compares them.
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colomon gfldex: then I completely fail to understand your question. 19:37
sjohnson leggo my eggo
awwaiid_web so <13 23 42 67 7>.sort doesn't do what I want on purpose then
gfldex colomon: point of operator overloading is (AFAIUI) that even the core part is then going to use those operators
colomon: if sort is ignoring those operators it's ... kinda odd 19:38
or do i have to overload that sort function to work with my custom type?
colomon awwaiid_web: that might be sort of a bug (there are fancy rules for constructs that are like <2 423 34>, NYI in rakudo), but no, it's not. 19:39
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colomon gfldex: if you want to provide default sorting for a new type, then yes, overloading infix:<cmp> is the way to do it. 19:39
gfldex colomon: as a method in that type or as a sub outside of it (c++ -stype) 19:40
colomon awwaiid_web: (13, 23, 42, 67, 7).sort will do a numeric sort, though
gfldex: sub inside of it might be the best way to do it at the moment. 19:41
star: <13 23 42 67 7>.sort.perl.say
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«("13", "23", "42", "67", "7")␤»
sorear good * #perl6
colomon star: (13, 23, 42, 67, 7).sort.perl.say
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«(7, 13, 23, 42, 67)␤»
awwaiid_web what sort op does sort use internally? I for some reason thought it was leg
colomon awwaiid_web: it uses cmp. 19:42
awwaiid_web star: (13, 23, 42, 67, 7).sort({ $^a cmp $^b}).perl.say
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«(7, 13, 23, 42, 67)␤»
awwaiid_web sweet
ok, many thanks
gfldex colomon: seams not to work for me, could you have a look pls? gist.github.com/519598 19:43
colomon gfldex: even if defined in a class, subs do not have a self.
awwaiid_web colomon++ # sorting sorting
colomon your first infix:<cmp> should look a lot more like your second. 19:44
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colomon star: (13, 23, 42, 67, 7).sort({ $^a leg $^b}).perl.say 19:44
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«(13, 23, 42, 67, 7)␤»
19:47 [1]Casan joined
astrojp I'm building Rakudo *. After it's finished I'd like to read some introductory stuff on it, like how to create variable, functions, loops, conditionals. And more importantly, how to create classes, objects, class methods...etc...I need beginner stuff. I know nothing about Perl 5. 19:47
gfldex astrojp: perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 19:48
moritz_ astrojp: did you try to read the book that's shipped with R*?
gfldex astrojp: www.perl6.org/documentation/
astrojp gfldex, moritz_: no, i haven't tried reading the book that's shipped with it. I'll start there and see how it goes. I'll try the www.perl6.org/documentation as well. Thanks. 19:51
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PhatEddy rakudo: my @a; @a //= (3); @a.perl.say 20:06
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤ in 'Block::count' at line 5609:CORE.setting␤ in 'Block::count' at line 5613:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::join' at line 1␤ in 'Array::perl' at line 2821:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 2821:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::join' at line 1␤ in
..'Array::perl' a…
PhatEddy rakudo: my @a; @a ||= (3); @a.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«[3]␤» 20:07
astrojp moritz_: Cool, the .pdf that comes along with the install "Using Perl 6" is pretty neat, looks like it has all I need to get started. Thanks again.
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slavik the question is: how do I install Perl6 into my brain? 20:08
PerlJam slavik: osmosis
slavik: and lots of practice
gfldex colomon: updated: gist.github.com/519598 20:09
colomon: i have to do @fruits.sort(&infix:<cmp>); or it wont call the user defined operator
colomon: is that a bug?
PhatEddy I think my critter may be new - any objection to reporting it? I searched perlbug for "// perl6" and didn't find a match. 20:10
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masak ahoy! 20:11
gfldex o/ 20:12
jnthn ako sa masak? 20:13
masak :P 20:14
that's punderful.
colomon gfldex: I think I know why it's happening, and I'd definitely say it's a bug. 20:16
gfldex our multi method sort(&by = &infix:<cmp>) { self.list.sort(&by); }
that's from Any-list.pm
when is that &by = evaluated?
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colomon gfldex: I dunno. 20:17
20:17 skangas joined
colomon but I think what's happening is that sort gets infix:<cmp> before your infix:<cmp> is defined. 20:17
gfldex anyway, that bug has to come from the dispatcher somehow
where did bugcat went to? 20:18
kitty kitty kitty
colomon actually, that is (in general) the desired behavior, I'm told.
20:18 Su-Shee left
colomon but I think sort is an example where it shouldn't work that way. 20:18
there's supposed to be a keyword to deal with it, but it's NYI in rakudo so far as I know.
jnthn It should be evaluated once per time we bind the signature 20:19
gfldex what keyword would that be?
tylercurtis lift?
jnthn But it's going to look for a cmp in the lexical scope of the setting.
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colomon lift, I think 20:19
jnthn Yes, lift is meant to deal with this issue, in theory.
colomon jnthn++ # for knowing what is going on better...
gfldex it's very undwimmy to require a keyword for that
all c++ dudes and dudettes will be very confused :) 20:20
jnthn gfldex: It's just a natural result of lexical scoping. :-)
gfldex if i overwrite an operator i want it to be called, or i don't need to overwrite it
colomon jnthn: Do you agree with my intuition that sort should be doing the lift automatically?
masak refrains from gossiping about mst banning pudge from #perl :) 20:21
gfldex if it doesn't ppl will overwrite sort instead
[Coke] masak: that was bizarro.
jnthn colomon: It sounds kinda sane, I'd have to re-read the spec for lift.
masak [Coke]: if you ask me, pudge's blog post and the comments he made don't speak in his favour. use.perl.org/~pudge/journal/40492 20:22
jnthn masak: Refrainataion fail. :P
masak jnthn: that's the thing about gossip. it doesn't work if you don't not refrain. :P
gfldex masak: so, now tell us the story then 20:23
masak gfldex: pudge was kicked by mst. that's all I know.
plus the blog post I linked above. plus this: twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/status/20901428800 20:24
colomon jnthn: I dunno if the spec mentions lift explicitly, but the idea that sort shouldn't Do The Right Thing by default for user-defined classes seems very wrong.
PerlJam Hmm.
masak in order to rationalize my mentioning it here, consider it all from a community perspective.
colomon jnthn: but then, requiring lift for operators in general seems like a horrible kludge in p6 to me. 20:25
masak how far can/should we go to preserve the atmosphere of a channel?
colomon: how do you mean?
gfldex i was kicked from channel a few times to and i consider it the right thing to do at those times :)
masak colomon: I think it seems like a very pretty solution. something that would have required a nasty workaround if lift weren't there.
PhatEddy rakudo: my @a //= (); @a.perl.say 20:26
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤ in 'Block::count' at line 5609:CORE.setting␤ in 'Block::count' at line 5613:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::join' at line 1␤ in 'Array::perl' at line 2821:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 2821:CORE.setting␤ in 'Any::join' at line 1␤ in
..'Array::perl' a…
colomon masak: my problem is that I have a hard time understanding why you might have a case where you do not want to use lift.
jnthn lift is kinda the fallout we get for going lexical. OTOH, if we didn't go lexical we'd have no lift, just fallout everywhere. :-)
masak PhatEddy: groovy error!
PhatEddy: is it from RT, or did you find it?
jnthn: :) 20:27
colomon for the programming I've done, have lift be default and a new keyword for no-lift seems much more intuitive.
PhatEddy masak: I just commented on that about 15 minutes ago and have now submitted it ...
masak I for one would really like a simple blog post about how lift works, and when to use it. someome pls write it. :)
gfldex the point about operator overloading is that you get some very cheap generic programming
masak PhatEddy++
tylercurtis jnthn: if I understand correctly, does that mean that specific variants of multis are lexical? 20:28
[Coke] masak: I don't see anything there there is really anti-pudge other than the sentiment of the current ops.
tylercurtis Or just multi operators?
masak [Coke]: maybe not. I'm kind curious what pudge actually wrote to get banned. 20:29
tylercurtis Or do I totally misunderstand why that code doesn't do what gfldex means?
colomon tylercurtis: specific variants are lexical, right. 20:30
masak [Coke]: but reacting to a ban by writing 'is insane' and 'irrational dick' in public isn't what I'd call mature. even if there were absolutely no good reason whatsoever to ban pudge, which I suspect there might've been.
[Coke] masak: absolutely nothing that I could see.
masak: you're clearly not in #perl.
masak oh, you were there?
no, I'm not.
[Coke] that is something you'd say to your grandmother in that channel.
-> $DAYJOBBING 20:31
(not any more. the constant trash talk is hard to keep up with.)
(but was there for the ban, yes.)
masak ok.
PhatEddy rakudo: my @a ||= (); @a.perl.say
jnthn tylercurtis: Yes; additional variants are lexically scoped.
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«[]␤»
tylercurtis Interesting. 20:32
pmurias tylercurtis: hi
tylercurtis: is the repo still broken for you?
jnthn rakudo: multi foo() { say 1 }; { multi foo($x) { say 2 }; foo(); foo('lol'); }; foo(); foo('lol'); 20:33
p6eval rakudo 6b318e: OUTPUT«1␤2␤1␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'foo'. Available candidates are:␤:()␤␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/6bosqyPPvM␤»
jnthn tylercurtis: ^^ Short example.
masak tylercurtis: and it works similarly with methods and inheritance. 20:36
colomon and it makes perfect sense there. it's the other way around where it gets weird. 20:37
wolverian lift? we have monads in perl6 now? *reads* oh...
tylercurtis pmurias: Yes. Looking at svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-mildew/lib/, it appears as though the v6/v6-mildew/lib/V6/ dir is still around, but empty.
pmurias :( 20:39
git-svn doesn't remove dirs
tylercurtis: can you delete it by supplying the URL to svn? 20:40
tylercurtis pmurias: I'll try. 20:41
pugssvn r31961 | tcurtis++ | pmurias++ moved the contents of this. Deleting it so we HFS users can co. 20:43
pmurias ruoso: i'm uploading new Mildew,SMOP,Mildew-Setting-SMOP to CPAN 20:44
ruoso: so i should now focus on cleaning up stuff/adding more tests/docs to things
and checking if everything works on a fresh perl 20:45
jdv79 jnthn: is there a copy of your MOP grant proposal online? 20:46
jnthn jdv79: Was posted on news.perlfoundation.org 20:50
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jnthn jdv79: news.perlfoundation.org/2010/07/hag...eta-m.html 20:52
gfldex if parametric roles would be used (whatever generic stuff would fit) for implementing sort, would lift still be needed? 20:53
tylercurtis pmurias: "Checked out revision 31961." URL-based deleting worked. Thanks.
jdv79 missed it somehow. thanks.
20:54 ashleydev_ joined
sorear jnthn: hi 20:57
jnthn o/ sorear
sorear jnthn: I hear you want to work on a Perl 6 metamodel for the Common Type System 20:58
jnthn sorear: Well, I want to work on a Perl 6 meta-model design that I can put on Parrot, the CLR, the JVM, etc. to ease Rakudo porting to 'em all. :-)
masak it's interesting how both the Perl 6 regexes and the Perl 6 meta-model form bootstrapping strange loops at the bottom of Perl 6. 21:00
jdv79 i get the feeling the full "promise" of parrot is being abandoned in favor of a more reality based approach. 21:01
nice 21:02
jnthn masak: I read a paper on the train yesterday that suggested we could do a strange helix instead. :P 21:03
(OK, OK, that's not *quite* what it said... :-)) 21:04
masak jnthn: that sounds interesting. what did the paper in fact say? 21:05
PerlJam wow... I was just looking through some old IRC logs from 1999 and say this: <purl> oh, the famous "it doesn't work" bug. or fixed in perl6
that's from March 30, 1999
s/say/found/
(another weird mis-word)
masak PerlJam: wow, that's pretty early. considering the perl6 effort was announced 16 months later. 21:06
PerlJam Indeed.
though Topaz happened in 1998 or so, so the idea of "perl 6" was around before the coffee mug incident 21:07
jdv79 who remembers topaz?
PerlJam apparently I do :)
jnthn masak: www2.parc.com/csl/groups/sda/public...or-web.pdf
masak PerlJam: oh, that's true.
jnthn masak: Should add that one to my papers list. :-)
masak reads 21:08
21:08 simon__ joined
masak or skims, as it were. 21:08
'Avoiding Confusion in Metacircularity: The Meta-Helix'
I already like this paper.
jnthn masak: Yes, it took me two reads of it to realize what implementing the idea it suggests would look like. 21:09
(Basically, nothing that we can't do with Perl 6 as already spec'd.)
masak woot
jnthn It's worth reading for the exploration of meta-circularity.
masak 'The intuition behind the meta-helix is that even though the extended and non-extended languages may be very similar, the fact that one is used to implement the other makes it important to reify them as distinct entities.' -- sounds like nqp and Perl 6 to me. 21:10
jnthn May be a little relevant.
jdv79 everything new is old again? 21:11
unique ideas are rare i think these days
sorear Wow, a CS paper I haven't read
masak it would be interesting to hear what the "Metaobject Protocol" people would say about this paper.
sorear fixes 21:12
masak sorear: I like your attitude. it's not humble, it's the other thing. :P
I like that.
jnthn jdv79: Aye, the paper basically boils down to class MyMetaClass { has $!inner-meta-class handles *; method add_method($obj, $name, $meth) { ...; $!inner-meta-class.add_method(...); } } # or some other methods you care to override
tylercurtis masak: as in, the "The Art of the Metaobject Protocol" people?
masak tylercurtis: right. those. 21:13
tylercurtis masak: because one of them appears to have been one of the writers.
masak oh :)
tylercurtis++ # meta-research
not only one of the authors of the book, but the main author. at least if they're listed by importance. 21:17
jdv79 nice synopsis 21:18
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masak 'night, #perl6. 21:26
21:27 mtve joined 21:37 ashleydev joined
pmurias jnthn: could you show me your papers list? 21:40
ruoso pmurias, yes... now it's just closure... make sure everything is cleaned up and tested 21:41
jnthn pmurias: It's only 2 papers long so far...but growing at 6guts.wordpress.com/interesting-papers/ 21:42
(got more to add, just not yet got around to it)
Early night for me today... o/ 21:43
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gfldex std: my @a = <a bb>; @a.sort:*.bytes; 22:07
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/XaAnHwow3r line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a = <a bb>; @a.sort:[33m⏏[31m*.bytes;[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ coloncircumfix␤ signature␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
gfldex std: my @a = <a bb>; @a.sort: *.bytes;
p6eval std 31912: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
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