»ö« | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, alpha:, pugs:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz_ on 25 June 2010.
drake1 nice 00:00
is the name of the subclass still passed to the parent class? 00:01
as the first argument
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jnthn drake1: No, the type object of the subclass is, but since it's a method the first argument goes in self 00:01
So you can write a constructor that knows what to do with subclasses by writing like method new() { self.bless(*) } 00:02
drake1 so self don't even have to be blessed?
TimToady everything is blessed in Perl 6
jnthn It kinda already is.
drake1 sweet
TimToady "Everything is an object."
rakudo: say 42.WHAT 00:03
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
drake1 then it's fully integrated object orientation
TimToady we want Perl 6 to be fully OO, fully FP, etc. 00:04
to the extent they can be all of those things at once
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drake1 then it's more easy to write clean packages 00:04
TimToady they're usually called modules and classes now 00:05
and grammars
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drake1 dot pm 00:05
TimToady grammars and classes are just fancy modules
but they all have their own keyword to declare them now, to document them better 00:06
and to make it clear what the semantics are in the scope
drake1 and arbitrary constructors are still allowed
TimToady but they're still packages at the bottom
sure
drake1 strong concept 00:07
TimToady good defaults, but the flexibility is hidden under that
in OO, Perl 5 maked hard things possible, but didn't make easy things easy
*made
that's a fascinating typo... 00:08
drake1 overall nice
TimToady I've never had my typing muscles regularize an irregular verb without my planning it consciously 00:09
drake1 im used to code with processes like objects instead though
jnthn TimToady: The lolspeak. You learns it.
drake1 and inherit though file descriptor capabilities
TimToady sounds like something that would naturally be more like delegation in Perl 6 00:10
drake1 the parent processes are typically roots 00:11
TimToady or a prototyping system
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drake1 it's nice enough to fix things up, thats for sure 00:12
TimToady we thought we'd sneak in a few high-powered features at the same time
especially where they help the cleanup 00:13
drake1 it's very comprehensible code imo
TimToady I'm sure we'll find new ways to make it obscure :)
drake1 yes
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TimToady rakudo: say (map * * *, 1...*)[^10] 00:14
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'WhateverCode'␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1745:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1746:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<->' at line 6760:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<...>' at line 777:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line
..22:/tmp/Z7…
TimToady rakudo: say (map * * *, (1...*))[^10]
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«212305690132182240306380␤»
TimToady rakudo: say ~(map * * *, (1...*))[^10]
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«2 12 30 56 90 132 182 240 306 380␤»
TimToady right, * * * doesn't square anymore 00:15
rakudo: say (map * ** 2, (1...*))[^10] 00:16
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«149162536496481100␤»
TimToady rakudo: say ~(map * ** 2, (1...*))[^10] 00:17
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100␤»
TimToady rakudo: say ~(* ** 2 for 1...*)[^10]
drake1 just wrote a test script for the new module pastebin.ca/1923815 is it any different?
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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TimToady rakudo: say ~($_ ** 2 for 1...*)[^10] 00:18
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady rakudo: say ~(for 1...* { $_ * $_ })[^10]
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 00:19
drake1 not exactly: LIBS = -lpsf\n^Dmake psf_print, but close
TimToady hmm, I thought for turned into a map now 00:20
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jnthn TimToady: I thought it did too 00:23
TimToady: Oh, maybe the postfix form doesn't yet 00:24
TimToady the last one was prefix form 00:25
rakudo: say ~(for 1..* { $_ * $_ })[^10] 00:26
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady maybe it thinks the inside of () is a sink context, and turns eager? 00:27
rakudo: say ~(for 1..* { .say; $_ * $_ })[^10] 00:28
p6eval rakudo 819e2c:
..OUTPUT«(timeout)␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53␤54␤55␤56␤57␤58␤59␤60␤61␤62␤63␤64␤65␤66␤67␤68␤69␤70␤71␤72␤73␤74␤75␤76␤77␤78␤79␤80␤81␤82␤83␤84␤85␤86␤87␤
jnthn TimToady: Yeah, it's not just the evalbot, it hangs here too
TimToady it's doing 1..* lazily, or say wouldn't work there 00:29
jnthn TimToady: Oh
TimToady: Yeah, it's doing something wrong for sure
$P102 = $P79."map"($P101)
$P103 = "&eager"($P102)
It's eagering it before it even gets to the postcircumfix. 00:30
TimToady rakudo: my @list := do for 1..* { .say; $_ * $_ }; say @list[^10] 00:31
p6eval rakudo 819e2c:
..OUTPUT«(timeout)␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53␤54␤55␤56␤57␤58␤59␤60␤61␤62␤63␤64␤65␤66␤67␤68␤69␤70␤71␤72␤73␤74␤75␤76␤77␤78␤79␤80␤81␤82␤83␤84␤85␤86␤87␤
TimToady same problem there
maybe the sink inside of gather was overgeneralized
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TimToady star: my @list := do for 1..* { .say; $_ * $_ }; say @list[^10] 00:32
p6eval star 2010.07:
..OUTPUT«(timeout)␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53␤54␤55␤56␤57␤58␤59␤60␤61␤62␤63␤64␤65␤66␤67␤68␤69␤70␤71␤72␤73␤74␤75␤76␤77␤78␤79␤80␤81␤82␤83␤84␤85␤86␤87␤
TimToady star: my @list := { for 1..* { .say; $_ * $_ }}(); say @list[^10] 00:33
p6eval star 2010.07:
..OUTPUT«(timeout)␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53␤54␤55␤56␤57␤58␤59␤60␤61␤62␤63␤64␤65␤66␤67␤68␤69␤70␤71␤72␤73␤74␤75␤76␤77␤78␤79␤80␤81␤82␤83␤84␤85␤86␤87␤
TimToady rakudo: my @list := { for 1..* { .say; $_ * $_ }}(); say @list[^10]
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: 00:34
..OUTPUT«(timeout)␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53␤54␤55␤56␤57␤58␤59␤60␤61␤62␤63␤64␤65␤66␤67␤68␤69␤70␤71␤72␤73␤74␤75␤76␤77␤78␤79␤80␤81␤82␤83␤84␤85␤86␤87␤
TimToady rakudo: my @list := { map { .say; $_ * $_ }, 1..* }(); say @list[^10] 00:35
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤149162536496481100␤»
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colomon rakudo: my $list := { for 1..* { .say; $_ * $_ }}(); say $list[^10] 00:41
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: 00:42
..OUTPUT«(timeout)␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53␤54␤55␤56␤57␤58␤59␤60␤61␤62␤63␤64␤65␤66␤67␤68␤69␤70␤71␤72␤73␤74␤75␤76␤77␤78␤79␤80␤81␤82␤83␤84␤85␤86␤87␤
dalek odel: 1fbc73b | jnthn++ | dotnet/ (9 files):
Big refactor of lexpads to do something rather smarter than just using a Dictionary<string, RakudoObject>. Not taking advantage of it yet anywhere, but this should enable good things.
 00:43
colomon jnthn++ 00:47
Tene I'm always pleased when I see a commit message for a codebase I've never looked at and can successfully predict the character of the changes. :) 00:48
rakudo: my $list := gather { for 1..* { .say; take $_ * $_ }}; say $list[^10] 00:49
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤149162536496481100␤»
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dalek odel: afb4abf | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Signatures/ (2 files):
Bind parameters into the lexpad using a positional index rather than a hash index. Wins us a bit. :-)
 00:56
jnthn Need to teach a Parrot that trick...
TimToady: I have a first form of the proto-controls multi-dispatch working in 6model for lexical multis. 00:57
TimToady: I didn't work out how to optimize it yet, so it sucks up about 15% of the runtime in a simple integer-loopy benchmark at the moment. And that's actually before we consider any wins from inlining. 00:58
Plus the multi-dispatcher is cheating like hell on comparing types. 00:59
Part of the fun is I want to work out a way to optimize it that I can implement in Parrot too. 01:00
Rather than having to re-invent a new approach there.
TimToady yay 01:01
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jnthn Suspect the optimizations will come after my vacation anyways. :-) 01:02
(Going on Wed, laptop stays at home...) 01:03
TimToady er, yay, I guess... :)
jnthn Think I worked out a way to handle :D and :U efficiently, if only we define them the right way.
colomon jnthn++
jnthn TimToady: It's yay in the long run.
TimToady I'm all in favor of people pacing themselves. 01:04
jnthn TimToady: I need the break; my concentration span has become appauling over the last couple of weeks.
[Coke] who's paul?
TimToady I could not have lasted ten years if I hadn't learned that.
mberends jnthn: are you perhaps feeling paurly? 01:05
jnthn Nothing that some days hiking in the Alps, and some hearty central European food washed down with good beer won't fix. :-)
TimToady "I find Paul appealing, but Peale appalling." --Adlai Stevenson
jnthn My spelling is appalling too :P
Sadly, my Redgate ANTS profiler trial will have run out when I get back from vacation. 01:07
colomon oh noez!
jnthn Will talk to $dayjob, they're a Redgate partner.
It is a *wonderful* tool. 01:08
colomon I keep on thinking about trying to get a profiler running on Rakudo.
jnthn Yes, Parrot has made a start in that area at least, but we just don't have it as good there yet. 01:09
What would be really cool is figgering out how to be able to step through Perl 6 code in Visual Studio. 01:11
colomon +1 01:12
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dalek odel: 0e96b52 | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/ (3 files):
Inline lexpads into contexts by making them structs, and a couple of related cleanups to make sure we're not needlessly shuffling data around.
 01:45
odel: 50be0ea | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/PAST2DNSTCompiler.pm:
Change missed from earlier commit to refactor signature parameter binding.
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dalek odel: dcf5ee5 | jnthn++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
Make our != rather more efficient.
 01:51
jnthn Enough twiddling...time to sleep. 01:52
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[Coke] phenny: tell moritz_ that I added a .revision file, and fixed --gen-parrot for partcl-nqp 02:58
phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when moritz_ is around.
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sorear std: 1 >>+<<= 2 04:04
p6eval std 32094: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
tylercurtis std: 1 = 2 04:07
p6eval std 32094: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 116m␤»
sorear std: sub infix_circumfix_meta_operator:<« »>() {}; 1 «*» 2; 04:11
p6eval std 32094: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at /tmp/ufCub9pfD1 line 1:␤------> ircumfix_meta_operator:<« »>() {}; 1 «*»⏏ 2;␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ postfix␤ postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01
..121m␤»
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tylercurtis What's a postfix_prefix_meta_operator? 04:21
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sorear @foo»++ 04:30
it's a prefix to the postfix 04:31
tylercurtis Ah, right.
sorear is adding metaops to niecza 04:32
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dalek ecza: 7bd8e6a | sorear++ | / (4 files):
Implement += metaoperators
 05:19
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tylercurtis rakudo: role A { method a {...} }; class B does A { has $.b handles <a>; }; say "alive" 05:22
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤A method named 'a' already exists in class 'B'. It may have been supplied by a role.␤»
tylercurtis That doesn't work. But this does: 05:23
rakudo: role A { method a {...} }; class B does A { has $.b; method a { $.b.a; } }; say "alive"
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«alive␤»
tylercurtis Shouldn't the "handles <a>" be treated as defining a method a in the class, and thus override the role method a?
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dukeleto perl6: eval q<<< sub { my grammar A { regex TOP { \d+ } } }; >>>; eval q<<<grammar A { regex TOP { \s+ } } >>>; 05:30
p6eval pugs, rakudo 819e2c: ( no output )
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dukeleto that is odd. that eval gives me this from the commandling perl6 binary: (datura)(~)$ perl6 -v 05:33
This is Rakudo Perl 6, version 2010.08-13-g819e2ce built on parrot 2.7.0 r48587
Copyright 2008-2010, The Perl Foundation
(datura)(~)$ perl6
> sub { my grammar A { regex TOP { \d+ } } }; grammar A { regex TOP { \s+ } }
!class_init_61
> eval q<<< sub { my grammar A { regex TOP { \d+ } } }; >>>; eval q<<<grammar A { regex TOP { \s+ } } >>>;
===SORRY!===
Illegal redeclaration of symbol 'A' 05:34
oops, sorry, meant to paste a gist
gist is at gist.github.com/547021
dukeleto shakes fists at having multiple paste buffers
i ran into this issue when attempting to declare a package scope grammar in PL/Perl6 and then use it later on 05:35
tylercurtis dukeleto: In that gist, the error looks to be because in the first line, you declare a "grammar A". Then again in the second eval, it attempts to create another "grammar A".
dukeleto if someone could shed light on whether that is the expected behavior or not, that would be awesome 05:36
sorear dukeleto: I expect it
down to 100 sorries
dukeleto tylercurtis: oh, i see. the commandline used to have each input line with it's own scope
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dukeleto tylercurtis: yes, you are right :) 05:37
tylercurtis dukeleto: I'm going to guess that that doesn't solve your original problem, though, no?
sorear dukeleto: 'grammar' without 'my' is global, it doesn't care about scopes 05:40
(technically only package global, but there are no packages there)
tylercurtis sorear: What exactly will it mean when you get that 100 sorries figure down to 0? 05:42
sorear It'll mean I'll start having to deal with frontend exceptions 05:43
hopefully that phase won't last long
niecza tries to generate error messages for code it can't handle... but not always
after that will be dealing with undefined stuff, like &return 05:44
tylercurtis The N sorries count is for attempting to compile STD? 05:50
sorear yes 05:51
there are a few things not caught at compile time that I know I'll need... like Cursor.at-key, the business end of $<foo>
tylercurtis sorear: do the tests in test.pl and test2.pl pass? 05:58
tylercurtis is beginning to consider using Niecza for his planned Bennu rewrite. 06:00
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TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n / 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone(27); 06:08
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n / 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone(5); 06:09
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«5 16 8 4 2 1␤»
TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n / 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone(10);
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«10 5 16 8 4 2 1␤»
TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n / 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone(20);
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«20 10 5 16 8 4 2 1␤»
TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n / 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone(27);
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«src/string/api.c:3335: failed assertion 'pos <= res->strstart + Buffer_buflen(res) + 1'␤Backtrace - Obtained 24 stack frames (max trace depth is 32).␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.7.0 [0x2aacfc933d73]␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.7.0(Parrot_confess+0x87) 06:10
..[0x2aacfc933ea…
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TimToady star: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n / 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone(27); 06:10
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«27 82 41 124 62 31 94 47 142 71 214 107 322 161 484 242 121 364 182 91 274 137 412 206 103 310 155 466 233 700 350 175 526 263 790 395 1186 593 1780 890 445 1336 668 334 167 502 251 754 377 1132 566 283 850 425 1276 638 319 958 479 1438 719 2158 1079 3238 1619 4858 2429 7288
..3644 1…
TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n / 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone(27); 06:11
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«src/string/api.c:3335: failed assertion 'pos <= res->strstart + Buffer_buflen(res) + 1'␤Backtrace - Obtained 24 stack frames (max trace depth is 32).␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.7.0 [0x2b565746ed73]␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.7.0(Parrot_confess+0x87)
..[0x2b565746eea…
TimToady on my machine, that prints out the array, but some of the entries are garbage
something like named repr_P6opaque repr_P6opaque repr_P6opaque $!llsig $!llsig scalar scalar scalar scalar scalar scalar named named named named scalar scalar $!llsig $!llsig 137 412 206 103 310 155 466 233 700 350 175 526 263 790 395 1186 593 1780 890 44 06:12
sorear tylercurtis: everything in test.pl passes and is tested before push (xbuild /t:Test) 06:14
tylercurtis: the stuff in test2 often doesn't; I use that for TDD
when a feature is working, it's moved to the main testg
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TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n / 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone('27'); 06:18
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«27 82 41 124 62 31 94 47 142 71 214 107 322 161 484 242 121 364 182 91 274 137 412 206 103 310 155 466 233 700 350 175 526 263 790 395 1186 593 1780 890 445 1336 668 334 167 502 251 754 377 1132 566 283 850 425 1276 638 319 958 479 1438 719 2158 1079 3238 1619 4858 2429 7288 06:19
..3644 1…
TimToady oddly, if I pass $n as a string, it works fine
sorear possibly issues of %% function on Num? 06:20
or Rat rather
TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, -> $n { $n %% 2 ?? $n div 2 !! $n * 3 + 1 } ... 1; }; say ~hailstone(27);
p6eval rakudo 819e2c: OUTPUT«27 82 41 124 62 31 94 47 142 71 214 107 322 161 484 242 121 364 182 91 274 137 412 206 103 310 155 466 233 700 350 175 526 263 790 395 1186 593 1780 890 445 1336 668 334 167 502 251 754 377 1132 566 283 850 425 1276 638 319 958 479 1438 719 2158 1079 3238 1619 4858 2429 7288
..3644 1…
TimToady works better with div than with / 06:21
so you could be right
tylercurtis sorear: I'm now growing increasingly confident that Niecza is be the implementation I want to use to run the rewritten Bennu (at least until the distant (assuming it ever happens) point at which I implement enough to be able to compile STD and Bennu with Bennu).
sorear Bennu is written in Perl 6? 06:22
TimToady funny it causes memory corruption on my machine though
tylercurtis The current version is, with a very small runtime in C. The rewrite will be written entirely in Perl 6. The runtime will be in ugly bootstrappy-pragma C in Perl 6 syntax. 06:24
sorear are you pllaning to fork it, or scrape --stop-after output, or something else entirely? 06:26
dalek ecza: f6e0c6a | sorear++ | / (2 files):
Implement :foo«x y»
 06:27
ecza: 7a1ca98 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
Silently ignore type constraints on parameters
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sorear 52 06:33
tylercurtis It sounds like you're making considerable progress towards being at the point where Niecza can compile STD. So, once that's possible, I'm hoping to essentially have a Bennu::Actions and do "STD.parse($foo, :actions(Bennu::Actions));" and then, of course, actual compilation and code-generation. 06:34
sorear The big features I know I'm still missing are roles, multimethods, and control exceptions 06:39
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tylercurtis I think I can get by without those until you have them implemented as long as STD doesn't use them. If STD does use them, then I can just wait until you have them implemented. 06:45
sorear s/still missing/$/ & STD still needs/ 06:46
TimToady STD uses roles for its mixins, and multimethods to the extent demanded by LTM 06:51
doesn't really do anything with control exceptions beyond what Perl 5 can do 06:52
sorear multi method tweak
TimToady ah, yes, that too 06:53
though that can be faked the way gimme5 did; does viv still turn them into conditionals?
tylercurtis I'm off to bed now, but I'm going to try building and playing around with Niecza a little tomorrow. 06:55
Good night, #perl6.
TimToady ah, I see what viv does now, nevermind 06:56
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sorear should probably get rid of the # DO NOT ERASE comments at some point 07:05
I'm planning to do basically the same thing in niecza 07:06
it won't be possible to sort alternatives anyway until the class hierarchy is generated at compile time
most of the 'interesting' issues in current niecza concern infix:<but> 07:07
(which I guess slangs will have to use)
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moritz_ how can you get rid of them if you're not supposed to erase them? :-) 07:10
phenny moritz_: 02:58Z <[Coke]> tell moritz_ that I added a .revision file, and fixed --gen-parrot for partcl-nqp
dalek kudo: f8763b8 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
add word boundary assertion after alphabetic infix operators

Fixes RT #77218		 07:13
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mathw discovers a class in a C++ project which is quite definitely really a role 08:12
\o/ multiple inheritance allowing me to use it almost like one
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pugssvn r32095 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for RT #77218, identifiers that start with an operator name 08:47
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moritz_ www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=856849 another junctions-as-set abuse 09:00
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sorear Does it make any sense at all to have attributes in a grammar? 09:04
moritz_ I don't see why not 09:05
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moritz_ you'd have to instantiate before parsing to use them 09:05
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moritz_ maybe in some cases that's saner than keeping all state in dynamic variables 09:06
osfameron moritz_: are junctions not *built on* sets? 09:07
moritz_ osfameron: no, they are not sets
at least no in the sense that most people think 09:08
osfameron ah
moritz_ any(1, 2) could be seen as an infinite set
because all sets that contain 1 or 2 match it, and there are infinitely many of those
osfameron the superficially set-like properties aren't deep enough to be interesting, basically ?
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moritz_ well, they are interesting, but that shouldn't let us forget separation of concerns 09:10
they are specifically outside of the normal type hierarchy to allow type-based autothreading 09:11
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moritz_ now if we add set methods to junctions, they need to be exceptions to the autothreading rules 09:11
and having many exceptions contradicts the design goal of junction being an intuitive thing to match against 09:12
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moritz_ osfameron: does that make some kind of sense to you? 09:16
rakudo: {...}; say "alive"
p6eval rakudo f8763b: ( no output )
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moritz_ rakudo: (sub { ... }).(); say "alive@ 09:19
rakudo: (sub { ... }).(); say "alive"
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say \"alive"␤»
rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«alive␤»
osfameron moritz_: hmmm, I understand that junctions /do/ too much for them to be seen as sets. I was just wondering whether a junction object was in fact built on top of a simpler "set" object that it'd be easier to point people at when they start using junctions for it
moritz_ rakudo: (sub { ... }).() + 1; say "alive"
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«Method 'Bridge' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤ in 'infix:<+>' at line 3427:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Qfy3kvoSLL␤»
moritz_ osfameron: hm... we have a Set type in rakudo, but it's poorly documented and tested 09:20
rakudo: (sub { ... }).() ~ 1; say "alive"
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤ in 'infix:<~>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/NtTzlMvGZi␤»
moritz_ rakudo: use fatal; (sub { ... }).() 09:21
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤ in <anon> at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/7l7y5B7Dx5␤»
pugssvn r32096 | moritz++ | [t/spec] some stub code tests; should eventually be moved to a file on its own 09:22
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pugssvn r32097 | moritz++ | [t/spec] test for RT #75828, series operator after comma is caught 09:24
masak <x3nU> seriously, perl6 *really* needs a good tutorial, it would bring a lot of supporters
nuh, yah. 09:25
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phenny masak: 23 Aug 20:28Z <mberends> tell masak oha++'s Socket.pm and INET.pm patch in gist.github.com/543580 tests out OK on all the webservers unmodified in github.com/mberends/http-server-sim.../examples/ so it looks good to commit it. This does not prove binary file I/O yet however, that requires some rewriting. 09:26
moritz_ well, we're writing a book that will be available as a PDF for free - isn't that a good start? :-) 09:27
masak it is.
mathw :)
masak mberends: I'll see about applying tonight or tomorrow.
09:28 BaggioKwok left
masak interesting comments at linuxfr.org/~darkhad/29968.html -- Perl 6 the Soap Opera? 09:29
I did not intend to give that impression when writing the original post, but I guess presenting the road as sufficiently non-straight gives some people such an impression anyway. 09:30
Rakudo Star release on Thursday? 09:31
moritz_ I thought tonight?
masak oh. that sounds right, actually. 09:32
mathw If only I spoke French
masak mathw: there's something called "the Internet" which can translate for you nowadays. quite neat.
masak wipes the sarcastic smirk off his face :P 09:33
moritz_: was there a "cpan6" meeting today as well?
moritz_ masak: let's ask sorear about it
09:34 lichtkind joined
frettled mathw: "Show romanization 09:34
urghle
lichtkind hai
frettled mathw: "Monsieur, vous êtes une peau de vache!"
mathw masak: usually with quite amusing levels of mistranslation
masak because if it's 3 hours before #phasers, I'm afraid I can not attend today. I can in general, but due to my exam, I can't today.
frettled mathw: (a classic insult)
moritz_ rakudo: say (False, &prefix:<!> ... *).[^10].perl
masak mathw: still a very good help to grasping what is being said.
09:34 fod left
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Perl6MultiSub'␤ in 'infix:<...>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/JDT_MAk9ME␤» 09:34
frettled ‘
masak lichtkind: hi, child of light.
lichtkind masak: :) 09:35
frettled masak: what kind of exam?
masak lichtkind: ...with a warm smile befitting of #perl6 :)
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masak frettled: Organisk Kemi med Analytiska Tekniker 09:35
moritz_ sounds like fun
lichtkind masak: i just came to bully moritz_ :)
frettled masak: ooh. There must be a use for Perl 6 there! 09:36
masak frettled: stress falls on the penultimate syllable of the last word :P
frettled: I'm sorely tempted to make a full-featured IUPAC <-> molecule converter.
frettled masak: Just as well, I wouldn't want to do that kind of chemistry with an analytic technician
masak: ooh, that would be immensely cool 09:37
masak moritz_: it's an interesting course. quite a bit of orbital theory in it.
moritz_ masak: I've heard that theoretical chemistry is close to some branches of applied quantum mechanics :-)
masak moritz_: also, I know my brain has been warped by the course. yesterday while reviewing a chapter, I found myself looking at a reaction, thinking "no wai! show me the mechanism for that!". wouldn't have happened a few weeks ago. :)
frettled Can you confirm that orgchem students often sniff (CH3)2CO? :D 09:38
(re "brain warped by the course")
masak frettled: unless that compound exudes from the book, I haven't been sniffing it in the past week.
sorear masak: moritz++ has apparently decided that it's today, yes 09:39
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moritz_ have I? :-) 09:39
masak go on an have it without me. I'll read the logs.
I only have one datum to contribute anyway.
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masak give me a moment, and I'll remember what it was. :) 09:39
sorear ggoebel: have you reported the mono 2.6.7 bug yet?
frettled masak: good, good, I hope your brain survives 09:40
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sorear I'm hoping that having a meeting this week, even a tiny unproductive one, will act as a leader to some big lightning bolt of a discussion next week 09:40
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moritz_ hugme: add lichtkind to book 09:45
hugme hugs lichtkind. Welcome to book!
tadzik oh oh, tonight? 09:46
moritz_ did we say 1600 UTC? 09:47
masak moritz_++ # "OH NOEZ!" in #77394 :)
moritz_ whoa there, somebody reads my tickets
sorear moritz_: yes 09:48
masak they land on p6c, and I tend to brief through them.
mainly so as to avoid unnecessarily double-submitting. 09:49
moritz_ tends to grief about them 09:50
sorear griefing tickets? 09:51
moritz_ oh, I meant grieve
moritz_ can't spell 09:52
grieving RT - a hacker's lament
masak Rt tickets are love. no need to grieve. 09:53
sorear a lament? really? 09:54
tadzik Parrot needs a LOLCODE compiler 09:59
mathw I thought it already had one 10:00
moritz_ parrot had a lolcode compiler
no idea if it's still working
mathw bring it back!
compiler necromancy!
tadzik I'd love writing in LOLCODE using e.g. Perl 6's Web
moritz_ trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Languages lists it as "Inactive, retired or dormant" 10:01
builds against parrot 2.4.0
shouldn't be too hard to resurrect 10:02
jnthn Afternoon
tadzik fixing it sounds like fun
o/ jnthn
moritz_ \o jnthn
mathw \o/ jnthn
|
\
bah
tadzik trac.parrot.org/languages/browser/lolcode/trunk # how do I clone this one?
sorear out
moritz_ git svn clone trac.parrot.org/languages/browser/lolcode/trunk 10:03
or svn co $url
masak \o/ jnthn
tadzik moritz_: the thing is it's not an svn url 10:04
moritz_ oh
tadzik I can't see the real one
moritz_ svn.parrot.org/languages/lolcode/trunk/
tadzik moritz_++ 10:05
hey, it actually works
or maybe it doesn't 10:06
yes, it does :)
moritz_ indeed 10:07
fascinating
might need switchting to nqp-rx in the long run 10:08
unless somebody did that already
tadzik it passes all tests, and is quite fast :)
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moritz_ tadzik: yapc.tv/2008/ye/lt/lt2-09-pmichaud-...-compiler/ if you don't know it yet 10:09
tadzik never seen it, thanks moritz_++ 10:10
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masak this is it, folks. see you on the other side. 10:12
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bbkr STD eval is down? 10:29
std: 1; 10:30
p6eval std : ( no output )
moritz_ msg <bbkr> std: say "a" ~~ m:i:i/A/
Can't chdir to '../../src/perl6/snap': No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 134
+ 4 screen pages of enterprise-grade stack traces 10:31
bbkr rakudo: say "a" ~~ m:i/:i A/ # this should die in the same way as m:i:i/A/, am I right? 10:32
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«a␤»
bbkr rakudo: say "a" ~~ m:i:i/A/
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«duplicate named argument in call␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/FjoThAtxNU␤»
moritz_ hm 10:33
I'm not sure if that's correct
bbkr I'll wait for STD eval to confirm
moritz_ even if m:i:i// should die, I'm not sure if m:i/:i/ should 10:34
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moritz_ looks to me like the regex starts something like a new scope 10:34
and my $x; { my $x } isn't forbidden either
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bbkr std: "a" ~~ m:i:i/A/ 10:50
p6eval std 32097: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
bbkr std: "a" ~~ m:i/:iA/
p6eval std 32097: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex modifier :iA at /tmp/neu2wc9gMj line 1:␤------> "a" ~~ m:i/:iA⏏/␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
bbkr std: "a" ~~ m:i/:i A/
p6eval std 32097: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
bbkr then it looks like Rakudo is too restrictive about m:i:i/A/ form
bbkr reports 10:51
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bbkr rakudo: say "a" ~~ m:nth(Mu)/a/ # bang! 11:13
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤ in 'EnumMap::Capture' at line 4869:CORE.setting␤ in 'EnumMap::Capture' at line 4873:CORE.setting␤ in 'prefix:<|>' at line 677:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::match' at line 2406:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::match' at line 2406:CORE.setting␤ in
..'Cool::matc…
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bbkr why recursion? I thought nth match is just plain iteration... 11:15
anyway, doesn't look good
bbkr reports
rakudo: say "a" ~~ m:nth(Any)/a/ # how about this one? it is correct on STD but i'm not sure about result produced 11:20
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«a␤»
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moritz_ the code tests the presence with .defined 11:36
which is a sensible thing to do, if you ask me 11:37
std: 1 11:38
p6eval std 32097: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 114m␤»
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bbkr rakudo: say "aa" ~~ m:nth(Any, Any)/aa/ # then this one should not warn, right? 11:42
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤0␤»
moritz_ that's something different
there the $nth parameter is defined 11:43
it's a list
and the implementation is free to assume it's a list of ints
bbkr moritz_: right. I keep forgetting that (1) === 1 in P6 11:44
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bbkr is back to bughunt 11:45
moritz_ thinks we should switch roles for a while... masak, cognominal and bbkr fix bugs, and jnthn and pmichaud report them :-) 11:46
bbkr I have to say I like P6 team attitude towards RT. most of programmers consider bug ticket as attack to their skills, not a information of how to improve code. P6 will be awesome piece of software :) 11:49
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dangbinghoo hello 11:54
is there any book about learning perl6?
moritz_ yes 11:55
github.com/perl6/book/downloads
11:55 Siddy joined
moritz_ not yet finished, but should be usable 11:55
bbkr rakudo: say "me" ~~ m:i/<[M]>/ # quick question - should :i modifier also ignorecase ranges, or is that given up P5ism? 11:56
p6eval rakudo f8763b: OUTPUT«␤»
bbkr s/ranges/character-classes/
moritz_ bbkr: I guess they should be case ignoran too
bbkr reports
dangbinghoo moritz_: thank you! 11:57
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moritz_ dangbinghoo: you're welcome; you can also find most perl 6 related links somewhere on perl6.org 11:57
ggoebel phenny: tell sorear just reported the mono bug. I'm wondering if anyone will agree that failure to compile hello world is a critical failure? (bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=634017) 11:59
phenny ggoebel: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
dangbinghoo moritz_: yeah, thanks
pugssvn r32098 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for RT #77356, lexicals in subset declaration; also fix a few tests that made wrong assumptions about the scope of symbols (related to eval_dies_ok)
moritz_ ggoebel: it'll probably be useful to include a backtrace from gdb in that bug report 12:00
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ggoebel moritz: added a backtrace... note if you assume complete ignorance on my part, you'll not overestimate my knowledge of mono, c#, .Net, or most other things. 12:14
moritz: the good news I've heard is that ignorance can be cured...
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moritz_ it can indeed 12:14
through a process called "learning"
bbkr yep, by removing :i modifier :D
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smash_ hello everyone 12:16
moritz_ oh hai
smash_ moritz_: sorry, haven't had time to push my CGI-Cookie to github yet 12:18
moritz_ smash_: no worries, I've been busy with other projects anyway
smash_ PaFo elections took all my spare time this weekend 12:19
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pugssvn r32099 | moritz++ | [t/spec] basic test for --help 12:22
moritz_ that's a disadvantage of having yet another foundation 12:23
[Coke] moritz_: hio 12:24
smash_ moritz_: anyway i already created the repo on github and set you up as collaborator, i'll upload what i have later
dalek kudo: 82c9e96 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run test(s) for --help
 12:25
moritz_ hi [Coke]. I've installed a cron job that rebuilds partcl-nqp every date at 0330 UTC 12:29
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moritz_ running that now, and will look at the generated .revision file once it's finished 12:31
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[Coke] moritz_++ ! 12:31
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[Coke] moritz_: it's the full SHA1. (I just grabbed the git command from rakudo that was pulling the revision). Is that sufficient? 12:33
moritz_ [Coke]: I'll patch p6eval to extract the first 6 digits
would be a bit spammy to use all the digits in the evalbot output 12:34
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moritz_ took about 6.5 minutes to rebuild parrot and partcl 12:36
[Coke] @git log -1 --pretty=format:%H > .revision 12:37
(If you want, I can change that. evalbot is the only thing using it am.)
*atm
moritz_ no, currently I have a quite evil hack in the rakudo build script to get a shorter revision number
and now I have the perfect reason to remove that hack, and put the shortening code into p6eval 12:38
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pugssvn r32100 | moritz++ | [evalbot] report partcl-nqp revision 12:40
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dangbinghoo so perl6 released? 12:43
moritz_ dangbinghoo: a Perl 6 compiler named Rakudo had several releases so far
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[Coke] We need to add that to the faq in the release. :| 12:43
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dangbinghoo moritz_: Rakudo Star is the Perl 6 release? 12:44
moritz_ dangbinghoo: Rakudo Star is *a* Perl 6 release 12:45
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[Coke] dangbinghoo: /a/ perl 6 release. 12:45
moritz_ and not a production release
[Coke] but yes.
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dangbinghoo moritz_: but it seems that Rakudo Star is the most complete Perl 6 implemention. I'm reading blogs on pugs.blogs.com, says that Rakudo Star is the new start of Perl 6 12:49
moritz_ yes, it's probably the most usable and most complete compiler at the meoment
dangbinghoo it says that Perl 6 is now ready because of Rakudo Star. 12:50
pugssvn r32101 | moritz++ | [evalbot] s/partcl-nqp/partcl/ for Coke++ 12:51
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moritz_ it is ready for some things, and not for others 12:52
for example rakudo is mightily slow
if that is a problem for you, then it's not ready for you
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mathw I guess it's a problem 12:57
takadonet hehe
[Coke] partcl: namespace eval moritz { puts moritz++ } 12:58
p6eval partcl d55427: OUTPUT«moritz++␤»
[Coke] partcl: namespace eval moritz { puts moritz_++ } ;# use right nick. =-)
p6eval partcl d55427: OUTPUT«moritz_++␤»
moritz_ a _ more or less doesn't impair my happiness 12:59
hey, that was almost a rhyme
12:59 zulon joined
jnthn You're a poet but didn't know it ;-) 12:59
moritz_ I accidentally a poet! 13:00
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[Coke] moritz_: looks like the short version is just a format of %h instead of %H. 13:02
(so let me know if you want me to fix it. Thanks again. =-)
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drake1 hello, how do you do something like line 37 in www.gangsterfreak.com/file:paste ? 13:07
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drake1 simply exchanging -> with `.' ? 13:08
PerlJam drake1: @psf_read[$psf].($.csize, $.font, $char); # probably.
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drake1 alright 13:09
13:09 orafu joined
drake1 that's actually nicer 13:09
PerlJam: so dots are not only for methods?
moritz_ $.font is the same as self.font 13:10
PerlJam drake1: what moritz said
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moritz_ so it is a method call 13:10
drake1 ok
pmurias hello
moritz_ but you usually write accesses to public attributes that way
hi pmurias
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cognominal bbkr, on attitude about bug reports. This goes even further than you say, because I whine about stuff that may be important for a user. But fixing them may steal time better used on long term architectural stuff. jnthn++ and pmichaud++ for their patience. 13:13
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PerlJam drake1's question got me thinking about contexts a little. "$.foo" is really the same as "item self.foo" and "@.foo" is really the same as "list self.foo" and "%.foo" is really the same as "hash self.foo". Right? That's the wordy way to provide context. 13:18
If that's all true, what's the wordy contextualizer for "&.foo" ? 13:19
moritz_ none; there's no operation that coerces a non-code object to a code object 13:20
btw 15:09 < drake1> that's actually nicer
sorry
ridiculousfish.com/blog/archives/20...treachery/ is what I wanted to share - nice read
drake1 moritz_: then whats the 6y alternative? 13:21
the array index should be cast to a function 13:23
moritz_ WHY? 13:24
drake1 because the psf version has special read algorithms
eg. version 1 and 2 use different algorithms 13:25
mapped to different index's
moritz_ I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing
15:19 < PerlJam> If that's all true, what's the wordy contextualizer for "&.foo" ? 13:26
why would one want a callable context?
drake1 I mean about line 37 in that paste
moritz_ huh - din't PerlJam answer that question already? 13:27
drake1 not very clear
PerlJam what was unclear?
drake1 whether dots is for methods or values 13:28
PerlJam moritz_: consistency. (a foolish one perhaps :)
moritz_ drake1: then it's good style to ask for clarificaion, not just ask the same question again
didn't I answer that too?
15:10 < moritz_> $.font is the same as self.font
15:10 < moritz_> so it is a method call 13:29
drake1 but self.font seems like some other language
PerlJam drake1: really? which one? :)
moritz_ it's also Perl 6 :-)
drake1 PerlJam: struct objects in C
PerlJam I assure you, it is Perl 6. 13:30
drake1 ok
[particle] there's plenty of clarification in the spec on that matter.
drake1 so the non dollar dot strings return a void object?
PerlJam er, what? 13:31
drake1 if you don't prefix with the dollar, what's the return value?
jnthn whatever the thing you call returns
without any context applied
drake1 hmm
PerlJam drake1: whatever the return value is of the method you're calling
moritz_ (fwiw currently rakudo doesn't force the context as it should 13:32
jnthn (In Perl 6, there's no wantarray or anything like that.)
moritz_ )
jnthn (So it's no problem to not know the context.)
moritz_ rakudo: class A { has @.b = (1, 2); method check { say %.b.perl } }; A.new.check
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
PerlJam drake1: $.foo is the same as self.foo, .foo is the same as $_.foo Is that your difficulty? 13:33
moritz_ that's wrong
(rakudo's output, not PerlJam :-)
drake1 PerlJam: sounded like you were unsure
PerlJam drake1: so far today, I've only been unsure about a wordy contextualizer for subroutines.
moritz_ rakudo: sub curry($x) { { $x } }; my $c = curry 3; say $c() 13:34
drake1 ``self'' is similar to the former symbol table, then?
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Integer'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/y1dYLQTu9o␤»
moritz_ no; self is a lexical that holds the invocant 13:35
drake1 ok
moritz_ rakudo: sub curry($x) { sub { $x } }; my $c = curry 3; say $c()
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«3␤»
moritz_ PerlJam: you can write a callable contextualizer like that, if you want :-)
jnthn moritz_: -> { $x } too if you really just want a block. 13:36
moritz_ or {; $x }
jnthn I think that'd still be taken as an inline block 13:37
(It's inline vs closure that's the tripping point here, not block vs hash)
moritz_ oh.
right
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 13:40
phenny pmichaud: 23 Aug 19:38Z <moritz_> ask pmichaud it seems that the p6regex tests in nqp-rx assumes that nqp-rx should support the :x($count) modifier -- is that sitll a valid assumption?
jnthn morning, pmichaud 13:41
pmichaud moritz_: no, those tests are left over from the pge days...
moritz_ ok, I'll get rid of them (and of the :nth tests too)
pmichaud wfm
cognominal rakudo: sub curry($x) { * }; my $c = curry 3; say $c()
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Whatever'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/7oynNW6Ys_␤»
moritz_ fyi, 'make test' in nqp-rx now runs the p6regex tests too 13:42
pmichaud does it pass all of them?
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pmichaud I had them separate because not all of the p6regex tests were passing yet. 13:42
cognominal should that work?
pmichaud cognominal: no.
moritz_ well, I did some fudging
to make them all pass
pmichaud moritz_: okay, I'll take a look. 13:43
moritz_ I also updated some to the new regex syntax
pmichaud all of the rx_backtrack tests are being skipped? 13:44
[Coke] wasn't someone saying a few days ago "but surely those parrot strings would get freed in the first GC anyway?" 13:45
moritz_ pmichaud: yes; many of them tested ::, which was too much of a hassle for me to fudge
pmichaud oh.
[Coke] (because about the same time, someone in parrot noticed that that was in fact not the case.)
pmichaud but the rx_backtrack tests (the ones that do work) are pretty important. 13:46
[Coke] ponders trying to pick pmichaud's brain.
pmichaud [Coke]: pick my brane about what? ;-)
moritz_ pmichaud: should I split the :: tests off into another file?
pmichaud moritz_: that might be better.
13:46 uniejo left
moritz_ oh, not so many as I thought... maybe I'll just fudge them in-place 13:47
dalek p-rx: f32c0d3 | moritz++ | t/p6regex/rx_modifiers:
get rid of some regex modifier tests that are (intentionally) no longer supported
 13:48
pmichaud another possibility is that we could change the p6regex harness to be nqp, now. 13:49
instead of .pir
but that's a longer-term change, I suspect.
in general, I'd like to see that spectests and p6regex and <other engine> can all live from the same body of tests.
that's a little hard to do with the S05-* tests written as p6 scripts, though. 13:50
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pmichaud [Coke]: still pondering? ;-) 13:53
[Coke] pmichaud: trying to make a past::var in package scope go for the get_hll_global instead of just get_global.
pmichaud coke: oh... just specify :namespace([]) 13:54
that makes it look in hll_global
[Coke] github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/blob/m...ns.pm#L176
pmichaud: ... Oy. Danke.
That almost seems obvious, thank you. =-) 13:57
pmichaud afk for ~1h 13:58
[Coke] pmichaud++
dalek p-rx: c7b2af5 | moritz++ | t/p6regex/ (2 files):
fudge backtracking tests, and run them again
 14:00
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drake1 how do you return the "errno" of a failed system call? 14:10
maybe just return undef and specify that errno has the condition 14:11
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ggoebel hello perl6 14:14
colomon o/
takadonet ggoebel: morning
14:16 wtw joined
drake1 then what about intermixed high level abstractions 14:16
return value from constructor: undef - get the error code from $! or internal class property would be thread unsafe 14:19
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moritz_ the idea is to return a Failure object which is undefined, but contains information about the failure 14:21
drake1 then how would the call know how to distinguish an error object from the object it's trying to construct? 14:22
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moritz_ drake1: it's a different type for once 14:23
drake1 so they have to type check
moritz_ and if you try to call your normal methods on a Failure, it will blow up violently
so when you write
my $fh = open 'filename.txt';
for $fh.lines { .say }
then the $fh.lines blows up, telling you that the open() failed 14:24
or you can say
jdv79 open doesn't throw itself?
moritz_ my $fh = open 'filename.txt';
if $fh.defined { say "open worked" }
and it will not blow up
jdv79: no, unless you 'use fatal;'
drake1 moritz_: then it's better to pass the $file pointer
from the caller 14:25
moritz_ huh?
jdv79 weird. i'd like to see the motivation for that.
drake1 because then you don't have to intermix with system codes
moritz_ jdv79: parallelization
jdv79: you don't want some parallel operation to abort, just because 1 of the 5 million operations died
jdv79 oh, laziness?
moritz_ perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/failing-softly.html 14:26
drake1 open $file, "filename" |die "$!"; my $obj = new CLASS $file
moritz_ that's not Perl 6 code 14:27
and I don't see why you should write something like that
drake1 but then you still need to have an error code for the read and write calls, damnit
moritz_ why? 14:28
jdv79 ah, ok
moritz_ drake1: did you read the link?
drake1 moritz_: for proper error messaging
moritz_: im about to
moritz_ drake1: why? the failure object knows what went wrong
drake1 moritz_: yes, but how would the caller see whether it's a failure object or a good one? 14:30
moritz_ drake1: why should it care?
drake1 if $obj.error
moritz_ drake1: it can just use it as if its a normal object
and if it's an error, it blows up
or it can check for .defined
but I wrote tha already
drake1 I don't think it's a good idea to blow it up 14:31
gfldex did you try?
drake1 that's what I do atm
heheh 14:32
moritz_ well, you can always check, and don't blow up
gfldex is there a nice way to branch on the type of a value 14:33
beside MMD
drake1 something like: my $object = new PACKAGE "filename"; die if $object.error ?
gfldex die unless $object.defined 14:34
jdv79 pretty neat. i did not know about soft exceptions.
thx!
drake1 gfldex: yeah
TimToady more like lazy exceptions
moritz_ drake1: if you want it to die, why not just use it, and let it blow up during the usage?
drake1 moritz_: because it's unethical 14:35
moritz_ drake1: it's not unethical in Perl 6
drake1 ok then
TimToady it is a way to achieve clarity
the advantages of 'use fatal' without the disadvantages
drake1 moritz_: no. because that would kill the application who use it
moritz_ drake1: and calling die() wouldn't? 14:36
gfldex if you die by hand you tell somebody that reads that code that you expect stuff to go wrong at this place in the code
moritz_ every open() can go wrong 14:37
TimToady every print can go wrong
moritz_ and if the reader knows that it might blow up later on, it's just as good as die()
gfldex # bla bla bla horribly dies <-- would do the same :)
drake1 I think Im going to do like this (with in constructor): if(open() == undef) { $self{error} = $cantopen; return undef; }
moritz_ if you like....
drake1 then everyone is happy 14:38
TimToady except that's not Perl 6
at least two different ways
moritz_ std: undef
drake1 you cant address an object property like a hash?
TimToady std: if(open() == undef) { $self{error} = $cantopen; return undef; }
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of undef as a value; in Perl 6 please use something more specific:␤ Mu (the "most undefined" type object),␤ an undefined type object such as Int,␤ Nil as an empty list,␤ :!defined as a matcher,␤ Any:U as a type
..constraint␤ or fail() as…
std 32101: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of undef as a value; in Perl 6 please use something more specific:␤ Mu (the "most undefined" type object),␤ an undefined type object such as Int,␤ Nil as an empty list,␤ :!defined as a matcher,␤ Any:U as a type
..constraint␤ or fail() as…
drake1 if(!defined open...
TimToady std: if(!defined open()) { $self{error} = $cantopen; return Mu; } 14:39
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Word 'if' interpreted as 'if()' function call; please use whitespace instead of parens at /tmp/vYsukWStqc line 1:␤------> if⏏(!defined open()) { $self{error} = $cant␤Unexpected block in infix position (two terms in a row) at
../tmp/vY…
drake1 hmm
TimToady std: if !defined open() { $self{error} = $cantopen; return Mu; }
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $self is not predeclared at /tmp/dkey4eeObx line 1:␤------> if !defined open() { $self⏏{error} = $cantopen; return Mu; }␤Variable $cantopen is not predeclared at /tmp/dkey4eeObx line 1:␤------> efined open() {
..$self{er…
ingy morning
o/
colomon \o 14:40
TimToady std: if !defined open() { self.{error} = $cantopen; return Mu; }
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $cantopen is not predeclared at /tmp/Zwwdo1qcLb line 1:␤------> efined open() { self.{error} = $cantopen⏏; return Mu; }␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'error' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:03 118m␤»
drake1 heheh
TimToady std: if !defined open() { self.{error} = 'cantopen'; return Mu; }
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'error' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
ingy is at a beach house on the new jersey shore
TimToady std: if !defined open() { self.error = 'cantopen'; return Mu; }
ingy good wifi here
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 117m␤»
drake1 what's the Mu?
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huf the best looking version is the one that works so far. nice 14:40
TimToady but that's terrible to read, and doesn't return any useful info the caller 14:41
moritz_ drake1: I suggest you read S02
drake1 moritz_: alright
instead of blowing up, maybe it's allowed to print to stderr ? 14:42
TimToady open() // fail("Here's your problem")
moritz_ that would be a warning
drake1 nice
before calling open, I just use ``test'' to set the self{error} then 14:44
system("test","-f",$filename) || $self{error} = 'dont exist' 14:46
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moritz_ you're writing Perl 5 code 14:46
drake1 im trying to learn the new 14:47
TimToady and it's wrong Perl 5
system takes && in Perl 5
moritz_ unless $filename.IO ~~ :e { fail 'does not exist' }
drake1 yeah perl5 requires the arrow for single dimensional hash
fail causes application do die? 14:48
moritz_ see S04
and my blogpost about unthrown exceptions
drake1 ok 14:49
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daxim moritz_, I've been pondering. this soft failing compares directly to <backpan.perl.org/authors/id/T/TO/TO...ar.gz>, <use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=44521&...=71693> and <p3rl.org/Return::Value> 14:52
dangbinghoo is rakudo written using Perl 5 ?
daxim rjbs writes there: "Objects that are false are just a dreadful idea in almost every circumstance, especially when the object has useful properties."
moritz_ dangbinghoo: no, it's mostly written in Perl 6
gfldex drake1: www.presentingperl.org/ye2010/perl-...ull-story/
drake1: www.jnthn.net/papers/2010-yapc-eu-signatures.pdf 14:53
tells the story _why_ Failure is cool :)
dangbinghoo moritz_: what is perl-5.12?
daxim moritz_, what is better in this newer design compared to the 3 things I pointed above?
moritz_ dangbinghoo: a new version of Perl 5
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tadzik hello again 14:53
moritz_ daxim: that you don't have to check for the return value; you can just use it 14:54
and if you use it as if it were not a failure, but it is one, no information is lost
dangbinghoo moritz_: I'm installing rakudo, but gentoo is installing perl-5.12 first . is that true? Does rakudo need perl version over 5.10 ? 14:55
tadzik hell no
drake1 thanks gfldex
moritz_ another problem with Return::Value is that it tries to be type sensitive, but Perl 5 has no user-visible types beside scalar/hash/array
tadzik I was running it with 5.10 since I remember (which is like a few months :))
moritz_ dangbinghoo: no; rakudo needs perl5 for configuration, but 5.8.8 is also fine
14:56 jferrero left
dangbinghoo moritz_: so, rakudo need perl5 , and gentoo is now just updating my perl 5 (5.8-->5.12). 14:56
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moritz_ yes 14:57
dangbinghoo updating perl 5 makes my vim crashed.:-( 14:59
colomon my rakudo builds are done with perl 5.8.9 15:00
moritz_ dangbinghoo: complain to the gentoo developers
dangbinghoo moritz_: sorry.;-) 15:01
moritz_ no problem
BinGOs And the moral of the story is, always build your own perl5 independent of your vendors.
moritz_ (or chose a better vendor :-) 15:02
if such a thing exists
daxim perl on gentoo is a lost cause, alas
the responsible team is well-meaning, but understaffed 15:03
moritz_ for some years I was rather happy with Debian's perl, but installing modules which require newer core modules is still a PITA
so I'm slowly drifting towards self-compiled perls too
dangbinghoo moritz_: gentoo developer would not notice this. gentoo is for someone who is developers . the answer is to reinstall the vim yourself, never ask questions. 15:04
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moritz_ well, if you're not happy with that attitude, you shouldn't be using gentoo 15:04
BinGOs First thing I do on any new system ( like CPAN Tester boxes ), install a non-threaded perl-5.12.1 under /opt
dangbinghoo moritz_: well , I'm trying to design a system like gentoo , but more easier to use. 15:05
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dangbinghoo moritz_: but it is only my thought , well , a dream 15:07
diakopter BinGOs: urp; first thing I do on machines at $work is to install a threaded perl-5.12.1 since the system one is non-threaded (and old) 15:08
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diakopter I write new scripts with Thread::Pool::Simple often 15:11
BinGOs I don't want the threads tax. 15:12
diakopter oh
I don't want the other-15-cores idle overhead. these machines are not under high load. 15:13
er, other 7 cores. 15:14
tadzik star comes out today? 15:15
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drake1 pretty sweet with signatures 15:22
mov 4(%ebp), %eax alike 15:24
just runtime instead 15:26
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diakopter TimToady: www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dimvar/papers/...-10-01.pdf 15:31
tadzik hah, pmichaud++ LOLCODE talk is hilarous 15:32
gfldex tadzik: where do you see that one? 15:36
tadzik gfldex: yapc.tv/2008/ye/lt/lt2-09-pmichaud-...-compiler/ 15:37
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dangbinghoo perl6: say 3 15:40
p6eval pugs, rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«3␤»
dangbinghoo rakudo: say "4"
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«4␤» 15:41
drake1 to specify the grammar for my own parser object, it's enough to specify where each sub branch may occur 15:48
through symbolic class abbreviations 15:49
moritz_ drake1: see the chapters on regexes and grammars in github.com/downloads/perl6/book/2010.08.a4.pdf 15:51
drake1 then it's up to the parent branch how to handle unwelcome ones
thanks for all the good pointers
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drake1 is the infix [max] locale compatible or numeric only? 15:55
15:57 zulon left
tylercurtis It appears to use infix:<cmp>, so it's generic to whatever cmp does for the arguments. 15:59
drake1 ah, >> is like the `map' func with object methods instead? 16:00
tylercurtis: ok
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TimToady drake1: yes, it's all really just higher-order programming underneath; methods are really just first-class functions that put themselves where a dispatcher can find them 16:04
moritz_ hugme: add kthakore to book
hugme hugs kthakore. Welcome to book!
16:05 kuzuha left
TimToady diakopter: I'm glad there are people in the world who like to think about such things, and I'm glad I'm not one of 'em. :) 16:05
drake1 TimToady: very smart
almost like MMX cache force 16:06
TimToady which is why we can export a method and turn it into a multi sub, and it works the same; it just has a different dispatcher
drake1 is it possible to say: @array>>normal_func ? (without the dot) 16:07
TimToady not that way
drake1 so >> is only for object methods of the array? 16:08
TimToady but prefix operators are also meta-able, and a listop is a prefix
drake1 oh
TimToady so normal_func« @array ought to work
drake1 nice 16:09
TimToady not sure it does in rakudo though
16:09 cogno joined
moritz_ I'm pretty sure it doesn't 16:09
TimToady rakudo: say sin« (0,1,2)
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say sin\x{ab} ("␤»
moritz_ (and it's the first time I've read that it shoudl work :)
TimToady rakudo: say -« (0,1,2) 16:10
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«0-1-2␤»
16:10 envi^home left
TimToady std: say sin« (0,1,2) 16:10
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse quote-words subscript; couldn't find right double-angle quote at /tmp/VSiSMXT3Vp line 1 (EOF):␤------> say sin« (0,1,2)⏏<EOL>␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of bare 'sin'; in Perl 6 please use .sin
..i…
TimToady o_O
tylercurtis std: [+]<<(0, 1, 2) 16:11
TimToady I though 'sin' was an operator
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
drake1 then with an array of home made `sin' capable objects, it's just to @array>>.sin too?
TimToady std: say abs« (0,1,2) 16:12
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 118m␤»
TimToady rakudo: say abs« -«(0,1,2) 16:13
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find sub &prefix:<abs>␤»
TimToady STD has abs as a prefix operator
drake1 std: sub sin2 { return sin(2); }; @array = (1,2,3); say @array>>.sin2
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable @array is not predeclared at /tmp/WDUyVswZPj line 1:␤------> sub sin2 { return sin(2); }; @array⏏ = (1,2,3); say @array>>.sin2␤Variable @array is not predeclared at /tmp/WDUyVswZPj line 1:␤------> sin(2); }; @array =
..…
drake1 oh 16:14
16:14 Siddy left
TimToady strict is the default now 16:15
16:15 Trashlord joined
TimToady and .sin2 won't work like that, because it's the wrong dispatcher. however .&sin2 turns out to work 16:16
(recently discovered)
drake1 ok
TimToady std: sub sin2 { return sin(2); }; my @array = (1,2,3); say @array>>.&sin2
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
TimToady rakudo: sub sin2 { return sin(2); }; my @array = (1,2,3); say @array>>.&sin2
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤ in 'sin2' at line 22:/tmp/Sm9fuaOhP5␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Sm9fuaOhP5␤»
drake1 so arrays values are not automatically subclassing the parent class 16:17
TimToady rakudo: sub sin2($x) { return sin(2); }; my @array = (1,2,3); say @array>>.&sin2
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«0.9092974268256820.9092974268256820.909297426825682␤»
drake1 cute
TimToady rakudo: say (1,2,3)».&prefix:<-> 16:18
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«-1-2-3␤» 16:19
TimToady \o/
moritz_ rakudo: sub sin2($x) { return sin($x); }; my @array = (1,2,3); say ~@array».&sin2
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«0.841470984807897 0.909297426825682 0.141120008059867␤»
moritz_ TimToady: that's a neat trick
[particle] rakudo: say (1,2,3)».&postfix:<!>
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &postfix:<!>␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/T19MM3BnyW␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: say([0], [1, 2], [3, 4, 5])>>.&prefix:<[+]> 16:20
moritz_ [particle]: that's the one you have to define yourself :-)
TimToady rakudo: say (1,2,3)».&( * + 42 )
[particle] feh :(
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«01 23 4 5␤»
rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "&( * + 42 "␤»
TimToady aww
std: say (1,2,3)».&( * + 42 )
p6eval std 32101: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
jnthn rakudo: sub add($x, $y) { $x + $y }; say (1,2,3)».&add(2);
TimToady rakudobug
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«345␤»
jnthn TimToady: Ewww. 16:21
TimToady: How's it parsed?
moritz_ rakudo: say ~(1, 2, 3).&prefix:<+>(2)
rakudo: say ~(1, 2, 3).&infix:<+>(2)
jnthn rakudo: &( * + 42 )
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«too many positional arguments: 2 passed, 1 expected␤ in main program body at line 6760:CORE.setting␤»
rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«5␤»
rakudo 82c9e9: ( no output )
TimToady same as $() or @()
jnthn Hmm, seems to parse it alone.
Yeah
TimToady rakudo: say (1,2,3)».$( * + 42 ) 16:22
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "$( * + 42 "␤»
jnthn Maybe we're missing something in variable
16:22 snearch left
drake1 im used to the less friendly while(i=*p++)sin2(i); where the inheritance chain is associated by the `ld' command. different story 16:22
moritz_ jnthn: yes, we also don't parse @$a
jnthn Ah, ok 16:23
tylercurtis rakudo: say (1,2,3)>>."{ * + 2}"
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments at line 22, near ""␤»
moritz_ thought ld did linking, not inheritance
tylercurtis rakudo: say (1,2,3)>>."{ * + 2 }"()
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«Method '_block131' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/5J9Y09Mndo␤»
tylercurtis Ah, right. 16:24
drake1 ld is all about overloading the methods
TimToady it's parsed by the line in token variable that reads: 16:25
| <sigil> <?before '('> <postcircumfix> [<?{ $*IN_DECL }> <.panic: "Can't declare a contextualizer">]?
methodop calls variable calls postcircumfix
rakudo: my $a; @$a; 16:27
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "@$a;"␤»
16:27 macroron left 16:28 pyrimidine joined
jnthn Ah, yes, I think we are missing that case. 16:28
16:30 Mowah left
tylercurtis rakudo: class A { method defined { True; } }; say A.defined 16:30
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«0␤»
tylercurtis Ah, nice.
jnthn Hmm. 16:31
moritz_ kinda thinks it's a bug
jnthn I don't think that behavior is going to survive the meta-model refactor.
tylercurtis kinds thinks it's possibly a bug, too, now. 16:32
jnthn I also suspect anyone overriding defined is going to really want to write multi method defined($self:D:) { True } too
So they only override the behavior not on the type object 16:33
(I'm increasingly suspecting that :D and :U care about the repr's idea of definedness rather than any higher-level one.)
moritz_ but :D won't check .defined, but rather a lower-level test, no?
ah, jnthn++ is faster than me 16:34
jnthn moritz_: Right, so overriding defined wrongly won't mess up dispatch that is relying on :D and :U
It'll just confuse people. :-)
TimToady it could well be one of those two-level distinctions like ~ vs .Str
drake1 where's the best place to download parrot?
moritz_ the internet!
TimToady no, that's where you download it *from*
moritz_ ah. Then "a computer" 16:35
tylercurtis parrot.org
TimToady the best place to download parrot is someone else's computer, because it uses too many resources. :)
16:35 cogno left
moritz_ drake1: do you want to build it from source? do you want a release, or a source repo? 16:35
jnthn TimToady: Yeah, I think it kinda needs to be.
TimToady: We get away with various things in Rakudo today because of the type object being of a different type to the type it represents. 16:36
TimToady: Unfortunately, that way also rather hurts in other places.
TimToady: smop++ called that one right.
TimToady yes, cheaters usually get caught :P
drake1 moritz_: from source 16:37
moritz_ drake1: svn co svn.parrot.org/parrot/trunk/ parrot
drake1 nice 16:38
TimToady or just use the --gen-parrot option when you configure rakudo
drake1 I need to play with it 16:40
got a grammar to try to make parrot compatible 16:41
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pyrimidine moritz_: isn't parrot migrating to github? I hazily recall dukeleto doing something related to that... 16:44
or maybe just a mirror? 16:45
moritz_ pyrimidine: yep, but the github mirror isn't official yet
pyrimidine ok
TimToady contemplates a "Useless use of bare block" in sub curry($x) { { $x } } 16:46
16:47 kirillm left
[Coke] ah, there's our ddaily parrot snipe! 16:49
drake1 just fixed the PSF.pm with an -f $file_name || return undef; so now the test: pastebin.ca/1924348 is pretty OK
TimToady [Coke]: glad you noticed :) 16:50
[Coke] oh, i always do. :(
drake1 how do you create a signature for the "main" function arguments in perl6?
moritz_ rakudo: sub MAIN($x = 5) { say $x } 16:51
pmichaud no #cpan6sketch ?
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«5␤»
16:51 jferrero joined
moritz_ pmichaud: I was only one in there 16:51
pmichaud hmmm.
I had errands to run.
oh well, maybe next week.
moritz_ hopes so too
TimToady speaking of resources, I noticed that rakudo seems to have a small memory leak with rosettacode.org/wiki/Hailstone_sequence#Perl_6 16:58
which I was planning to leave running overnight to see if it completes, but decided I'd run out of memory first
moritz_ TimToady: it has a memory leak for every loop you can think of 16:59
a simple while 1 { }; leaks already
TimToady gotcha
do we know why?
16:59 dakkar left
moritz_ I have no idea 16:59
x3nU what are editors that do syntax highlighting for perl6? 17:00
[Coke] we just had a new committer fix a long standing leak, so if you can golf that, I'm sure we can get him on this one too.
moritz_ x3nU: vim
[Coke] (assuming its parrot)
moritz_ [Coke]: I'll rebuild on newest parrot before continuing to experiment
x3nU: also padra
TimToady might not be <-- vague anti-snipe :)
moritz_ *padre
tylercurtis x3nU: There's also a cperl-mode.el that supports Perl 6 in the pugs repo.
x3nU vim is a bit strange for me 17:01
and i don't want padre because i don't want install strawberry perl ;p
TimToady sounds like you get to write your own then :)
[Coke] par for the course around here!
TimToady though installing strawberry might be *slightly* less work 17:02
[Coke] perma-rant: lack of named tests in tap. (or maybe my rant is that prove doesn't tell you the description.) 17:03
TimToady well, the tests are supposed to pass, not fail :P
moritz_ [Coke]: prove --verbose shows me the test names
x3nU it looks like that i must use vim ;/ 17:04
moritz_ nobody forces you :-)
tylercurtis x3nU: how do you feel about emacs?
x3nU good operating system but... ;) 17:05
TimToady performance aside, I was rather pleased that we can write the hailstone sequence as a series
sub hailstone($n) { $n, { $_ %% 2 ?? $_ div 2 !! $_ * 3 + 1 } ... 1 }
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TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, { $_ %% 2 ?? $_ div 2 !! $_ * 3 + 1 } ... 1 }; say ~hailstone(7) 17:06
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«7 22 11 34 17 52 26 13 40 20 10 5 16 8 4 2 1␤»
colomon "my $m max= +hailstone($_) => $_ for 1..99_999;" feels very unperl6ish to me.
TimToady though I encountered abject failure in trying to cache results and return a list from the generator
in what sense is it unperl6ish? 17:07
sure won't work in Perl 5...
and relies on the fact that 'after' works on pairs 17:08
colomon not conforming to my sense of how things should be done in perl 6 :)
TimToady we are not Steve Jobs
colomon actually, does it even work?
TimToady yes, it does
colomon afk 17:09
TimToady though I don't recommend running it that many times if you're worried about your air-conditioning bill. 17:10
moritz_ [Coke]: still leaks on newest parrot
about 1MB per second
wolverian how does the statement modifier for scope in perl 6? is it "do { my ... } for ..." or "my $m = do { ... for ... }"?
in the above statement, that is.
TimToady the while 1 ?
moritz_ yes
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TimToady statement modifiers modify a whole statement 17:10
so the my is inside it 17:11
however, there are no {...}, so the my scopes to the outer block's lexpad
it doesn't carp about undefinedness the first time because assignops aren't supposed to
wolverian ah, I was just wondering if the statement was supposed to make sense or not. 17:12
tylercurtis max works on pairs?
TimToady yes, it both works and makes sense (fsdo)
max works on anything that defines cmp/before/after
rakudo: say 1 => 2 before 3 => 4 17:13
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«1 1 4␤»
TimToady er, hmm
moritz_ rakudo: say (1 => 2) before (3 => 4)
drake1 off to workingset
17:13 drake1 left
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«1␤» 17:13
TimToady there you go
moritz_ rakudo: say (3 => 2) before (3 => 4)
17:13 dual left
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«1␤» 17:13
tylercurtis rakudo: say (1 => 4) before (3 => 2) 17:14
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say (3 => 5) before (3 => 4)
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady so it's a convenient trick for attaching an extra datum to something you want to use min or max on 17:15
a mini schwartzian transform, basically
tylercurtis rakudo: my @array = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; say "\n", @array.max(:by(-> $n { say "$n"; $n })); 17:18
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«2␤1␤3␤2␤4␤3␤5␤4␤␤5␤»
tylercurtis Shouldn't a unary :by be called only once per element? 17:19
rakudo: my @array = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; say "\n", @array.sort(:by(-> $n { say "$n"; $n }));
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«␤12345␤»
[Coke] moritz_: so, while 1 {} -> 192 lines of PIR; hopefully that's golfable. 17:20
colomon TimToady: My particular worry about it working was the "my $m" part of it. Is "my" there treated roughly like "while my $a = ..." ? 17:22
TimToady yes, it scopes to outside the loop
except that we really are using it once as undefined here, unlike in the while 17:23
S03:3927 talks about op= in relation to undefined targets 17:25
colomon My objection to the line in (my understanding of) a perl 6 idiomatic approach is using an iterated max= rather than just taking .max of the entire array. 17:26
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TimToady well, there's the little matter of storing 100_000 pairs in memory 17:26
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colomon shouldn't happen due to laziness 17:27
TimToady I s'pose 17:28
colomon my $m = (^10000).map({ +hailstone($_) => $_ }).max
whoops, missed a 0
TimToady and you probably don't want to run it with 0
probably loops forever 17:29
colomon ah, yes, read the conditional wrong for 0
TimToady rakudo: sub hailstone($n) { $n, { $_ %% 2 ?? $_ div 2 !! $_ * 3 + 1 } ... 1 }; say ~hailstone(0)
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady yep
colomon my $m = (1..^10000).map({ +hailstone($_) => $_ }).max 17:30
17:31 mikehh left
TimToady still missing that 0 :) 17:31
colomon damn you, cut-n-paste! 17:33
my subconscious doesn't want to melt the computer of anyone actually trying the code, that's the ticket...
TimToady anyway, even 10000 is gonna run a goodly long time
colomon true, just 100 was disturbingly slow.
TimToady feel free to optimize it :) 17:34
anyway, in the rosettacode I was more interested in blowing people's branes than doing a standard FPish solution 17:36
17:37 cogno joined
TimToady working on rosettacode examples is Too Much Fun 17:37
17:38 c9s joined
colomon TimToady: I have been indeed pondering how to optimize the series operator for some time now. ;) 17:40
(and well, I think the my $m max= thing did indeed short a few circuits in my brane...) 17:41
17:43 mberends joined
PerlJam colomon: don't you just look at the output of the profiler and spend time hacking on those things that are run often or take too long? what's to ponder? ;) 17:46
[Coke] moritz_: Think I found the leak.
tylercurtis just had his brane blown by the slides from jnthn++'s Signatures talk.
[Coke] Looks like each time through the loop, a new copy of $_, $/, and $! are created.
colomon has to remember to look at jnthn++'s slides sometime soon
[Coke]++ 17:47
pmichaud why is that a leak?
[Coke] I'm assuming something is holding on the old copies.
pmichaud: trying to figure out why "while 1 {}" leaks.
let me post my golfed PIR...
pmichaud [Coke]: yes, but the fact of creating new $_, $/ and $! at each iteration doesn't explain a leak
I mean, the contexts should eventually get gc'ed 17:48
jnthn It'd only be incidental to the whole context PMC that references them leaking, no?
pmichaud (or they're supposed to be gc'ed)
pmichaud awaits the golfed pir
17:48 wtw left
[Coke] feather.perl6.nl/~coke/leak.pir? 17:50
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[Coke] if I uncomment out the "##" block there, it leaks. 17:50
17:50 cogno left
[Coke] with it as it, it holds steady. 17:51
pmichaud are you sure it's not leaking with the ## block?
seems to me it would simply leak more slowly
[Coke] I'll leaving it running for a few minutes.
if it's slower, it's MUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCh slower. 17:52
holding steady at 414M after a minute.
pmichaud what if you uncomment one of the declarations.... say, $! ? 17:53
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jnthn If you change 17:53
## find_lex_skip_current $P86, "$_"
## $P87 = new ['Perl6Scalar'], $P86
to just
$P87 = find_lex_skip_current $P86, "$_"
Does it still leak?
[Coke] avoiding the new? checking... 17:54
having just the find_lex_skip_current line is fine. 17:55
jnthn arrrrghhhh!!! 17:56
pmclass ObjectRef dynpmc group perl6_group manual_attrs {
...which is fine and...
[Coke] andding in the .lex also seems fine...
jnthn pmclass Perl6Scalar extends ObjectRef dynpmc group perl6_group auto_attrs {
[particle] #perl6: where every day is "talk like a pirate" day
jnthn auto_attrs?!
Shoudln't that me manual like its parent? 17:57
[Coke] auto_attrs == "please make parrot manage my memory for attributes."
pmichaud Perl6Scalar doesn't have any attrs of its own
at least, not that I recall
jnthn pmichaud: Yes, but it inherits from something that has one.
pmichaud: And allocates its own
pmichaud I bet the source is one of those patches submitted from folks updating the PMC attribute storage
jnthn pmichaud: We may have a situation where it allocates space due to auto_attrs, but then our init_pmc also allocates space 17:58
And we lose the pointer to the first.
[particle] btw built rakudo last night in <360MB with msvc
*ram
tylercurtis Is there any particular reason ObjectRef is manual_attrs?
jnthn tylercurtis: Yes
Well
It's that because we allocate the space outselves
[Coke] yup. it's the new Perl6Scalar ... add one of those 3 back in, it starts leaking again.
jnthn *ourselves
[Coke]: Try s/auto_attrs/manual_attrs/ there 17:59
(src/pmc/perl6scalar.pmc)
[Coke] hokay.
tylercurtis jnthn: right. But is there any benefit to doing that?
jnthn tylercurtis: Dunno 18:00
[Coke] I'll get back to you in a few hours after core.pir builds. ;)
jnthn tylercurtis: It was probably written before auo_attrs existed.
*auto_attrs
We may be able to get it to use auto_attrs. It may even be a performance win.
pmichaud the commit that added "auto_attrs and manual_attrs" is github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/961...7b8#diff-8
[Coke] jnthn: want me to try that instead? ;)
pmichaud looks like it came from cotto
tylercurtis is going to see what happens if he makes it auto_attrs.
[Coke] lets tc try that. 18:01
jnthn [Coke]: I'd be curious to if see the manual_attrs change fixes the leak too.
18:01 javs left
jnthn Though feel free to fix the leak and make it faster. ;-) 18:01
TimToady likes "and" 18:03
tylercurtis Switching to autoattrs made the memory stabilize for me. 18:04
jnthn Nice 18:05
pmichaud I don't quite understand the meaning of "manual_attrs" and "auto_attrs", fwiw
tylercurtis runs a spectest and goes for a walk to see if it breaks anything somehow. 18:06
[Coke] jnthn: 30s in, I don't see the leak.
jnthn \o/
[Coke] pmichaud: they refer to the memory management for attributes.
pmichaud [Coke]: okay, I knew that mnuch.
*much
what's the difference between them?
jnthn pmichaud: auto_attrs has Parrot allocate the thingy that hangs off the PMCs data pointer for you.
[Coke] basically, "unless you're doing something clever, use auto"
jnthn pmichaud: manual_attrs = you malloc and free it yourself 18:07
pmichaud jnthn: as in, it allocates and initializes the pointers automatically?
jnthn pmichaud: Right
[Coke] tylercurtis: you have a patch?
pmichaud what does it initialize them to?
PMCNULL ?
jnthn pmichaud: It allocates a struct with fields for all of the ATTR declarations.
pmichaud but leaves the fields uninitialized? 18:08
jnthn I believe so yes
Probably zeroed
pmichaud you're saying that auto_attrs allocates the struct, then.
jnthn Maybe PMCNULL
Right
pmichaud when would we (Rakudo) want to be using manual_attrs, then?
tylercurtis [Coke]: spectesting right now. Want me to nopaste a patch before I go walking?
jnthn And what seems to have happened here is that objectref was correctly marked manutal_attrs
(because it did its own allocation)
But the subclass of it was marked auto_attrs 18:09
18:09 sftp left
jnthn So Parrot allocated it, but we inherited the pmc_init that did the manual allocation too. 18:09
pmichaud right now we have a mixture of both auto_attrs and manual_attrs in our pmcs
jnthn pmichaud: I suspect our usage of it mostly dates back to before auto_attrs existed.
pmichaud: Or at least in this case.
pmichaud I'd like to have a reason for using one or the other in each case.
18:09 sftp joined
[Coke] tylercurtis: no worries. 18:09
jnthn pmichaud: We likely don't have a consistent approach for now. 18:10
sorear good * #perl6
phenny sorear: 11:59Z <ggoebel> tell sorear just reported the mono bug. I'm wondering if anyone will agree that failure to compile hello world is a critical failure? (bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=634017)
jnthn pmichaud: We should really use auto_attrs consistently unless we can't.
pmichaud jnthn: yes, that's what I'm thinking.
but most of our active pmcs appear to be manual_attrs
18:12 justatheory joined
jnthn pmichaud: We could probably change that for most if not all of them. 18:12
pmichaud agreed
tylercurtis: I'd like to see the patch, if you're still here.
[Coke] even if his patch causes issues, jnthn's suggestion works also. 18:14
szabgab good evening ppl 18:15
I just got the approval for a Perl booth at T-Dose in Eindhoven, Holland
pmichaud szabgab++
szabgab They can also let us have some space for a Perl 6 hackathon 18:16
jnthn szabgab: Nice
szabgab they told me they won't have a separate room but we can be in one side of the common space
pmichaud that works
szabgab I wonder if that would be ok for such thng
pmichaud in some sense being in the vicinity of others is a good thing :)
jnthn szabgab: Date?
pmichaud i.e., we want people to see us working and come and ask questions :)
szabgab I thought it could be even nice to show work and maybe get some people interested 18:17
pmichaud jnthn: 6-7 Nov 2010
jnthn ok
szabgab now I need to go out and ask for sponsorship
[Coke] will be there, pending funding. =-)
szabgab but I'd like to get such commitments :)
pmichaud [Coke]: really, that's likely?
[Coke] pmichaud: that I get funding? hell no.
pmichaud [Coke]: if you had funding, you'd make it? 18:18
[Coke] but "I won't go because I can't afford it" sounds much more negative. ;)
18:18 am0c left
szabgab [Coke]: I am trying to organize funding for some people 18:18
PerlJam pmichaud: do you have a way to fund him? :)
pmichaud PerlJam: I might.... but more to the point, szabgab is also looking for funding for such things. 18:19
szabgab I have no idea if I mangage t get any money at all but I'd like to know who might come if we had the money :)
jnthn Heh. It's like, almost exactly a month after I'll be in that part of the world.
szabgab and how much funding they might need
[Coke] there are other hackers who should get funding before I do, but yah, I'd definitely consider it if money were no object.
pmichaud wow, I can get round-trip airfare for $730
jnthn The date sounds weirdly familiar to me. I don't know why. 18:20
pmichaud jnthn: I think it's been mentioned before here
jnthn Maybe that's why
dalek ok: 7af1026 | kthakore++ | README:
added cache trick to readme
 18:21
jnthn It's a weekend.
So unless I have to do stuff later on the Friday afternoon or first thing the Monday morning I could make it.
18:21 Mowah joined
jnthn I think. 18:21
Ooh...this is why the date rings a bell. 2010.useperl.at/apw2010/ 18:23
pmichaud yes, that would do it. :)
szabgab oh my
is that now their good date or bad date? 18:24
jnthn I hadn't particularly made plans to go beyond "ooh, there's a Perl event in a city I like" though :-)
jdv79 will there be any p6 action at ppw?
pmichaud looks like round-trip airfare is $830 for me after taxes and such
18:24 risou_ joined
jnthn For me, I can probably get sleeper train tickets for < 100 EUR each way, then it's just somewhere to crash on the Saturday night. 18:25
pmichaud I'll talk to my sponsors and see if they can get me there, if other p6'ers would be likely to make it :)
18:25 risou left
pmichaud (or maybe szabgab++ will pull something off :) 18:25
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amkrankruleuen Hello. 18:26
jnthn pmichaud: I probably *can* arrange to be there.
pmichaud if any($masak, $moritz, $mberends) can also make it then it'd very likely worthwhile :)
*it's
that might be a good time for planning and seeing where things stand with the object-model changes 18:27
jnthn Aye
TimToady I'm planning to go the Hacker's Conference that weekend
pmichaud ...Hacker's Conference?
moritz_ highly doubtful; I'd love to, but I probably won't leave my pregnant wife alone
colomon moritz_++
jnthn pmichaud: Yeah. I can likely make it without funding, but funding would make it easier. 18:28
pmichaud I'll keep it in mind and see how things develop. 18:29
18:29 saaki joined
szabgab jnthn: 100 EUR funding I already have , if that's all what you need 18:30
and in Holland we can find space to sleep, I am sure
moritz_ wow, this is *very* old news, but still nice: www.theperlreview.com/Interviews/mj...50407.html MJD says "Sometimes I wish Perl's syntax were less verbose." 18:31
jnthn szabgab: I can look into it a bit more after my vacation. 18:32
tylercurtis O.o, git is being weird. It shows src/pmc/objectref.pmc as being unchanged, even though it is changed.
pmichaud objectref.pmc is a generated file 18:33
jnthn tylercurtis: Oh...er...it may be a ...yes that :-)
pmichaud you likely want to change objectref_pmc.template
jnthn szabgab: I have a 25% discount card for the sleeper train to get me somewhere in Holland, even if it doesn't go through Eindhoven.
szabgab: So can probably do it within not too much over that...the prices fluctuate. 18:34
jnthn starts to make some noms 18:35
tylercurtis is wondering whether he should run a spectest with the changes in objectref_pmc.template as well as directly changing objectref.pmc.
pmichaud yes
in fact, should probably remove objectref.pmc and spectest from there.
depending on how "safe" you want to be :) 18:36
szabgab jnthn, pmichaud [Coke] etc could you please add info about your possible participation to the wiki page at www.socialtext.net/perl5/index.cgi..._eindhoven ?
18:37 dual joined, jferrero left
tylercurtis is remaking with objectref_pmc.template changed and objectref.pmc deleted. 18:37
I'll make sure it still doesn't leak and then spectest.
18:38 ruoso left 18:39 Mowah joined
pmichaud tylercurtis++ 18:40
18:41 jferrero joined
jnthn tylercurtis: Thanks :-) 18:41
tylercurtis It doesn't appear to leak. Spectest time. 18:43
szabgab T-Dose is a 150-200 ppl event, www.t-dose.org/t-dose/photos
jnthn, pmichaud [Coke] CFP ends on 31 Aug www.t-dose.org/node/210 it would be nice to see a few Perl 6 related talks as well 18:44
pmichaud szabgab: noted, on my calendar 18:45
tylercurtis Are there any good benchmarks (that take less time than spectesting with and without the change) I can run to make sure that it doesn't hurt performance?
18:46 masak joined
tylercurtis afk. 18:46
masak exalutations, #perl6! 18:47
avuserow hallo masak! 18:48
jnthn I'm sure you can a-test to it having been an eventful day. ;-)
masak jnthn: the day has indeed had events. 18:49
pmichaud These are puns, right? Why is this channel so full of puns? ;-)
masak pmichaud: it's punful to read, isn't it?
pmichaud masak: especially using Parrot's current I/O implementation :-P :-P 18:50
[Coke] szabgab: I find the thought of funding extremely unlikely so I'm just going to pass on that. Thanks, though.
pmichaud [Coke]: how about attending ppw in early october, ooc?
masak pmichaud: :)
[Coke] ppw is muuuch easier to swing out of pocket.
18:51 Lorn left
pmichaud I know that kid51++ was interested in putting together an east-coast-ish event this fall, and rblackwell has also expressed strong interest in having something happen at ppw 18:51
szabgab [Coke]: just for my education, how much financing would you need to be able to get there ? 18:52
to T-Dose
18:53 Lorn joined
masak judging by irclog.perlgeek.de/cpan6sketch/2010-08-24 , there wasn't much interest in a #cpan6sketch today... :/ (or people forgot, or they were unable to come like I was) 18:54
but it's #phasers in ~5, right?
jnthn Yes, it appears so
Well remembered!
avuserow what's #phasers? 18:55
aside from a channel
jdv79 set to stun
avuserow pew pew
masak avuserow: it's a weekly meeting for Perl 6 people.
avuserow: you can come too if you're interested :)
jnthn We present the stunning work we've done in the previous week, and get each other fired up for the week to come.
18:56 pmurias joined
avuserow sure, why not. I've been rumored to have written Perl 6 before :) 18:56
masak jnthn++ # putting puns to good use!
avuserow: you can write Perl 6 both <?before> and <?after> :) 18:57
[Coke] szabgab: nearest airport to endhoven?
oh. there's one there. my travel site doesn't know it, though. ;)
szabgab maybe try Amsterdam 18:58
pmichaud amsterdam or brussels are closest
[Coke] szabgab: ENOFLIGHTS.
[Coke] finds that the difference between cost and total cost on the international flight is much greater than domestic. 19:00
19:01 masak` joined
[Coke] looks like airfare alone is $850 mininum to get to amsterdam. if that helps. 19:01
sorear I do not like <?before>
19:02 masak`` joined 19:03 masak` left 19:04 masak`` left 19:05 masak left
[Coke] (I can get to PPW for 250 non-stop, which is a little nicer, and I can probably handle out of pocket.) 19:05
19:06 daxim left
jdv79 in the error trace "5071:CORE.setting" is referring what file? 19:06
*to
sorear src/gen/core.pm
[Coke] oooh, 102$ for a 13 hour train ride. ;) 19:07
szabgab [Coke]: what train ride? 19:10
[Coke] from albany NY to pittsburgh PA by way of NYC.
szabgab ah
and yes, that filght ticket cost helps
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szabgab you might not be used to that but I constanltly have to pay similar prices from .il even to .eu 19:11
ok maybe "only" $600
pugssvn r32102 | pmurias++ | [mildew-hoopl] transforming the AST into a hoopl graph
pmurias sorear: did you remove .gitignore files from src/perl6? 19:14
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moritz_ sorear: do you think niecza should be added to the list of implementions that are run when you say 'perl6: say 1'? 19:22
tylercurtis is back and still spectesting. 19:26
moritz_ tylercurtis: do you run the tests in parallel? 19:29
tylercurtis moritz_: I do not. How do I do that? 19:30
moritz_ export TEST_JOBS=3 19:31
tylercurtis will need to remember that in the future.
moritz_ and you need Test::Harness 3.16 or newer
I just have it in my .bashrc
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drake1 Now the little (two days) perl program is complete. Preview: www.gangsterfreak.com/file:preview.png 19:40
x3nU >gangsterfreak 19:41
lol
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tylercurtis ooc, what modules are going to be in Rakudo (*+1)? 19:42
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masak jnthn: going on vacation tomorrow? whither? 19:46
jnthn Night train to Munich, there for a night to hang out in beergardens, then on to the Austrian alps for several days, then on to Slovenia for several days there. :-) 19:47
moritz_ sounds like good fun 19:48
jnthn Central Europe FTW \o/
moritz_: Yes, those are some of my favorite bits of the world. :-)
masak jnthn: sounds very good indeed. enjoy.
jnthn Thanks, it should be very refreshing. :-) 19:49
szabgab jnthn: will you be still in that area in the 2nd half of September? 19:50
jnthn szabgab: No
szabgab :)
jnthn szabgab: Will be back in Sweden then
szabgab or :(
we are trying to have a perl get together in Budapest with szbalint 19:51
jnthn Were I still in Blava, I'd have been able to pop down to that pretty easily.
Sadly, ratehr further away now. 19:52
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drake1 is pastebin.ca/1924527 perl6 compatible? 19:55
masak enjoys TimToady++'s hailstone sub in the backlog 19:56
PerlJam drake1: what does that mean?
drake1: that looks like perl 5, so I'd say "no, it's not perl 6 compatible"
drake1 PerlJam: it means to project a character to a canvas 19:57
scaled times 10 19:58
time ten in both directions 19:59
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jnthn
.oO( masak's network is really uu.seless
 20:02
masak rakudo: say ~$_(5) given { $_, { $_ %% 2 ?? $_ / 2 !! $_ * 3 + 1 } ... 1 } 20:03
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«5 16 8 4 2 1␤»
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masak jnthn: there used to be a file-sharing network called uu.suger.nu. various political forces made it change its name. it's now called du.suger.nu. :) 20:04
20:04 am0c^ joined
jnthn :) 20:05
masak [backlog] we need to improve/nativize the set class to the point where we can answer all junction-as-set abuse FAQs/non-FAQs with "no, do this with a Set instead".
tylercurtis We can at least tell them to do hash-as-set abuse if Set isn't up to the task. 20:06
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jnthn masak: folks on #parrot are wondering about you :-) 20:09
moritz_ 22:08 < nwellnhof> dukeleto: do you know if masak tried an unoptimized build?
tylercurtis About TT #1746 to be specific. 20:10
masak in Perl 5, there's a nice pattern for creating "local APIs": one 'local'-declares a type glob with an anonymous sub in it. (grep cpansearch.perl.org/src/MIYAGAWA/We...Scraper.pm for 'local' for an example.) I miss this pattern in Perl 6 -- is there any way to do that, and still make the sub calls not look like &*ugly() ?
jnthn: oh noes, one more IRC server to time out on... :/
masak heads over there
TimToady write a lexical pretty() that calls dynamic &*ugly() 20:11
moritz_ rakudo: my &*x = -> {say 3 }; x()
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &x␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/IL01HhjZ00␤»
masak TimToady: the goal is to have the user of the library not add any boilerplate code. 20:12
TimToady the library can define a routine and export it 20:13
masak ooh 20:14
TimToady++
20:14 timbunce left
masak wicked. 20:14
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masak I think &pretty would qualify as a trampoline. 20:14
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TimToady someday it's probably just a macro 20:15
masak because it jumps into itself, and then directly out to something else.
TimToady unless inlining gets good enough that you don't care
masak it's a dispatching adapter.
20:16 timbunce joined
jnthn TimToady: I've concluded that I probably need to get Rakudo/NQP to inline protos sooner rather than later if I actually want to build primitive stuff in terms of Perl 6-ish multi dispatch, fwiw. 20:16
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jnthn TimToady: The extra invocation overhead only to immediately delegate kinda sucks. 20:17
masak timbunce++ # twitter.com/carlmasak/status/22024364894
TimToady a proto is sort of a wannabe macro 20:18
masak TimToady: I'm not sure I like the {*} syntax in protos. I don't have any suggestions, just a general sense of too-much-magic uneasiness. 20:19
(I never liked the {*} in grammars either) 20:20
TimToady it's encapsulated magic 20:21
masak lately, Perl 6 has shifted over from "eveybody wants the colon" to "everybody wants the asterisk"
and TimToady seems to get it far more often than he got the colon. :P
jnthn Let's use {:}
moritz_ I guess they balance out these days
jnthn std: {:}
p6eval std 32102: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix : instead at /tmp/B0W4J11Qss line 1:␤------> {⏏:}␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
jnthn It's free \o/
;-)
masak jnthn: :D 20:22
moritz_ std: :
p6eval std 32102: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix : instead at /tmp/m4itHnwemv line 1:␤------> <BOL>⏏:␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
masak I know it's encapsulated magic. and I see that its point is to avoid boilerplate as much as possible.
moritz_ what is infix : ?
rakudo: say 1 : 2
TimToady invocant marker
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 1 : 2"␤»
masak I'm just thinking if I don't actually prefer 'proto method bar { &?ROUTINE.multi-dispatch }' or some such.
jnthn masak: Not if you have to write it in every proto 20:23
tylercurtis -1 to that.
jnthn masak: Take a look at
TimToady {*} if huffman coded
*is
and doesn't commit to the mechanism
masak yes, I acknowledge that.
jnthn the protos in github.com/jnthn/6model/blob/master...Setting.pm
masak TimToady: what happens if one does a {*} body with a multi or an only? 20:24
jnthn I know i'd much rather type something shorter. :-)
I'm not mad on {*} though. Unless we can add it as a single term.
(or maybe that already happened)
TimToady STD more or less does that, though the block for a proto is specialer
tylercurtis +(0,1).pick to possibly replacing {*} with something else short.
masak {[+]} 20:25
jnthn :P
masak :P
TimToady I kinda like the "call whatever"
moritz_ proto foo($a, $b) \o/;
tylercurtis masak: but how will I say that my proto ignores its multis and just returns 0 without making it too obvious, then? 20:26
masak TimToady: maybe there could be a syntax wherein all multies are specified within the body of the proto? proto foo { multi foo(...) {...}; multi foo(...) {...}; ... }
TimToady how does that distribute over multiple lexical scopes? 20:27
especially if the proto is in the setting?
masak multies can still be added in lower lexical scopes, as usual.
drake1 shouldn't the console be able to render >> is the little unicode euivalent single numbered >> sequence?
[particle] {:P}
masak s/can/could/
drake1: sorry, I didn't understand the question? having rendering problems on the console? 20:28
TimToady drake1: you mean just arbitrarily convert every occurrence of >> to »?
masak drake1: that sounds like a problem with your console.
drake1 perl6 seems to understand the unicode for two >> in a single character
TimToady other way around
the >> is a circumlocution that it takes to mean » most of the time 20:29
but not everywhere
drake1 and the console could render two 8bit >'s in a row as 􏿽xBB
TimToady std: $_ >> 3
p6eval std : ( no output )
TimToady I wouldn't want that 20:30
I'd rather know what's really there
drake1 me either
TimToady std: $_ >> 3
p6eval std : ( no output )
PerlJam $_ is much greater than 3? :)
TimToady why is std misbehaving regularly these days?
moritz_ TimToady: last time it did, there was no 'snap' subdirectory in src/perl6/ 20:31
drake1 I don't even use " alot
'' seems better
moritz_ they mean quite different things in perl
drake1 also in shell
moritz_ TimToady: ah, 'make clean' deletes snap. That's probably a bad idea 20:32
TimToady that would do it
drake1 oh, this window renders '' and " exactly the same
TimToady as I said, you really want to know what's there underneath
tylercurtis rakudo: multi infix:«<<» ($a, $b){ $a ~ $b }; say 1 << 2; say 1 « 2;
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of << to do left shift; in Perl 6 please use +< or ~< at line 22, near "2; say 1 \x{ab}"␤»
pugssvn r32103 | moritz++ | [std] do not delete snap on "make clean" 20:33
masak jnthn: I see you do lexpad indexing in github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/1fbc...5d610fca6c -- seems to be you're only using half of the benefits of doing so, though.
TimToady std: $_ >> 3
p6eval std 32102: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at /tmp/L2GV_4XKS_ line 1:␤------> $_ >>⏏ 3␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: multi postfix:«<<» ($a){ $a ~ '<<'}; say 2<<; say 2«;
jnthn masak: I'm only ever using it in the binder ATM
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 2\x{ab};"␤»
jnthn masak: Just didn't get to doing the rest yet. 20:34
tylercurtis rakudo: multi postfix:«<<» ($a){ $a ~ '<<'}; say 2<<;
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«2<<␤»
masak jnthn: oh, ok.
jnthn masak: You're welcome to a commit bit though. ;-)
masak jnthn: I'm still in shock after a week of studying. but thanks :)
jnthn
.oO( take the bait, take the bait... :-) )
:-)
drake1 IFS=.;echo \`''$*"\' 20:35
20:35 drake1 left
masak .oO( nice to see other implementation catching up with Yapsi... :P ) 20:36
20:36 Holy_Cow left
jnthn I don't KnowHOW I'll ever catch up with the official implementation though. 20:36
;-) 20:37
TimToady you just have to be officious
moritz_ will be glad for a pun respite in jnthn's absence :-)
masak moritz_: don't count on it :P
jnthn Maybe I should set up a cron job that runs a Perl 6 script that visits IRC each day, makes a pun and leaves. :-) 20:39
TimToady we'd have to break into your machine and perform an ap-pun-dectomy.
masak .oO( puns, shoots and leaves )
tylercurtis A hit-and-pun bot? 20:41
TimToady
.oO(shoot happuns...)
.oO(if you haven't got a punny, and ha'punny will do...)
 20:42
pmurias perl6: say 1 20:43
p6eval pugs, rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«1␤»
pmurias masak: you could add niecza conditionally that is print out the output if it compiles
PerlJam TimToady: you've given more than your tuppunce today. 20:44
pmurias masak: meant moritz_
TimToady I've also got my come-uppunce.
20:44 pmurias left
masak 'conditionally that [it] print out the output if it compiles' -- how is this different from any other p6eval target? 20:45
it's not like it can print out output if it doesn't compile.
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TimToady std: say barf 20:46
masak and it's not like it doesn't print out output when it compiles.
p6eval std 32103: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'barf' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:03 115m␤»
[particle] did you hear the one about the guy who walked into a bar and said, "foo!'?
masak [particle]: no. do tell.
TimToady did you hear about the marine that was rotten to the corps? 20:47
jnthn Is it different from the one where a guy walked into a bar and said "ouch"?
masak that's odd, the sea is supposed to be good for you...
jnthn TimToady: <groan> :-)
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tylercurtis Note to self: always pull before spectesting. 20:48
masak let me change my mind: I like the {*} in protos. 20:49
it's very pretty.
20:49 Italian_Plumber joined
tylercurtis patch for manual_attrs -> auto_attrs nopaste.snit.ch/23082: passes all spectest that Rakudo passed before I made the change. I'm going to spectest with HEAD + the patch now. 21:01
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diakopter std: say 21:08
p6eval std 32103: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/6by9whABnw line 1:␤------> say⏏<EOL>␤ok 00:02 114m␤»
masak \o/ dynamically scoped subs! it works! -- gist.github.com/548328 21:09
diakopter masak: does that mean man_or_boy.t can work? 21:10
masak diakopter: oh, this is not Yapsi. this is still Rakudo.
diakopter: just testing a feature I learned about today.
diakopter oh
21:11 sftp left
tylercurtis Hmm... I'm getting "Did you run make in src/perl6? at STD.pm line 3." errors in the "perl viv --boot --clear-inc --inc lib --inc . -5 -o STD.pm5 STD.pm6" portion of STD's make at r32055. 21:11
masak basically, we have more support for nice APIs/little langauges than I previously knew.
diakopter tylercurtis: did you run make in src/perl6? 21:13
oh, you're saying that's what you ran
tylercurtis Indeed.
diakopter hrm 21:14
tylercurtis: what os?
tylercurtis OS X 10.5
masak [backlog] moritz_: re switching roles in fixing/reporting bugs... I think such an exercise would lead to many interesting results. I don't think greater throughput would be one of them, though. 21:18
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masak Holy_Cow! \o/ 21:18
Holy_Cow: your nice suggests you're from .in -- are you? :) 21:19
s/nice/nick/
Holy_Cow no :(
masak ok. do you know Perl 6's top-level object type is called Mu? :) 21:20
PerlJam don't scare away the spiritual bovine :) 21:21
21:22 timbunce left
masak it's interesting to note that both Data::Decycle (a fairly new CPAN module) and KiokuDB use a "protect these objects from going out of scope" refcount-increasing object pattern. 21:26
Perl 6 won't need that.
21:28 timbunce joined
sorear masak: ip2location.com is your friend 21:29
masak tries 21:30
21:30 jferrero left
tylercurtis sorear: ooc, why does viv --boot put $FindBin::Bin ~ "/boot" (obviously not the actual code) in @INC? 21:32
masak Holy_Cow: ah. Kansas. never been there, but I can see cows being quite revered there too.
sorear tylercurtis: because the bootstrap versions of STD.pmc and Cursor.pmc are kept in src/perl6/boot 21:33
tylercurtis Ah, I see why STD wasn't building for me, now. 21:34
Holy_Cow in a very different way 21:35
tylercurtis Well, actually, I don't really understand. But I'm pretty sure I know how to fix it.
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tylercurtis $FindBin::Bin was being set to ~/bin where I had a script named "viv" that set up the necessary environment variables and ran viv. 21:39
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masak in 'enum Month <January February ...>', it'd be kinda nice to be able to define a cyclical range such that 'December .. February :wrap' (modulo the name of :wrap) gave (December, January, February). 21:55
though Rakudo doesn't have operator adverbs yet. 21:56
sorear range :to is gone
why :wrap
jnthn masak: 1..12 xx * 21:57
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tadzik 'evening 21:57
jnthn May cut it
[particle] True .. False
masak sorear: because an ordinary range of that kind would be empty.
jnthn masak: Or something like that.
masak jnthn: not as short/nice syntactically.
this is a case where I'd actually like an adverb. it doesn't have to be core, though. 21:58
21:58 Holy_Cow left
masak there will be modules. 21:58
jnthn :-)
masak I could also picture the .. :wrap construct being of good use in array slices. 22:00
once we can parameterize arrays over enums a la S09, I mean. 22:01
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masak I tend to think of S09 as The Last Big Unrealized (Original) Synopsis. 22:04
jnthn Yes, there's quite a lot to take on in there. 22:05
masak quite a lot of sugar that would lead to nicer scripts/programs.
a bit like typing does/will.
22:06 shade\ left
jnthn I really need to the whole S09 again sometime soon. 22:06
22:07 tadzik left
masak I should try and write some code that assumes S09 is here. would make for an interesting exercise. 22:07
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tylercurtis Wow. Niecza supports threads. 22:37
masak sorear++ 22:38
jnthn I can't wait to get Rakudo on a VM that does that too.
masak I'd like to add www.cs.ubc.ca/local/reading/proceed...e063ah.pdf to @interesting-papers and also point out that I'd consider it a privilege and a pleasure to do grant work at some point in the future optimizing the heck out of nqp-rx or equiv with techniques like this. 22:39
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jnthn masak: Looks interesting. 22:58
TimToady star: sub dif (@all [$, *@tail]) { @tail Z- @all }; say ~dif([1,2,3,4])
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«1 1 1␤»
masak ooh
TimToady "forward difference" 22:59
old one used map and slicing
masak TimToady: is there a source/reason for all of these all of a sudden?
TimToady I'm trying to avoid working on important stuff :)
so I thought I'd take a pass through the rosettacode site
masak that nested signature trick is worth remembering. 23:00
it's quite Prolog-y.
jnthn Hey, neat. 23:01
I hadn't thought of using them for that. :-)
TimToady rosettacode.org/wiki/Forward_difference#Perl_6
but the hilighting is a bit lame
tylercurtis looks like the auto_attrs patch passes all the tests that HEAD does. 23:04
masak TimToady: yeah, someone ought to write a Perl 6 parser. :P
TimToady tylercurtis: \o/ 23:05
masak rakudo: &f = {say $^s, $^s.perl;}; f "\&f = \{say \$^s, \$^s.perl;}; f " # quine 23:06
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &f␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/KM5_7LUBzo␤»
23:06 amkrankruleuen left
masak rakudo: my &f = {say $^s, $^s.perl;}; f "my \&f = \{say \$^s, \$^s.perl;}; f " # quine 23:06
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«my &f = {say $^s, $^s.perl;}; f "my \&f = \{say \$^s, \$^s.perl;}; f "␤»
masak updates rosettacode.org/wiki/Quine#Perl_6
23:07 thundergnat joined
masak ...and for 'most impressive and anticlimatic nick of the day', I nominate... thundergnat! :) 23:09
TimToady star: sub dif (@all [$, *@tail]) { @tail Z- @all }; sub difn2 ($a, $n) { ($a, &dif ... *)[$n] }; say ~difn2([1,2,3,4],2)
p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«0 0␤»
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thundergnat rakudo: my ($i, $j); for (1..5) {print $i //= $j+=5; $i++; print ",$j "} 23:11
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«5,5 6,10 7,15 8,20 9,25 »
thundergnat Is that a bug or a feature? 23:12
masak looks like a feature.
could you be more specific? :)
thundergnat I would have expected 5,5 6,5 7,5 8,5 9,5
masak why? you're not resetting $j between iterations. 23:13
thundergnat It is not short circuiting the ||
TimToady looks like a bug to me
masak oh!
thundergnat er //
masak thundergnat++
masak submits rakudobug
TimToady pugs: my ($i, $j); for (1..5) {print $i //= $j+=5; $i++; print ",$j "}
thundergnat actually, same for ||
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«5,5 6,5 7,5 8,5 9,5 »
TimToady pugs has it correct
masak aye, those should be thunks.
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masak thundergnat: you've just contributed to the Perl 6 effort. +1 level. :) 23:14
thundergnat glee!!
masak \o/
TimToady you now have 3 hit points
masak wow, that's... not a lot.
23:14 lestrrat is now known as lest_away
masak we need to be nice to the newbie. 23:14
TimToady go easy on the thundergnat 23:15
23:17 smash_ left, smash_ joined 23:21 smash_ left 23:22 fod joined 23:25 ispeak_ joined 23:27 dual left
TimToady rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3,4; say @a[1..*] 23:31
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady rakudobug
masak submits 23:32
23:33 Italian_Plumber joined 23:34 rgrau_ joined, dual joined
TimToady kills the 99 bottles of beer example :) 23:36
jnthn OH NOES!
Wait, does this bug mean the beer goes on infinitely? :-)
TimToady it means you never get to the beer 23:37
masak jnthn: no, because of the timeout the beer... what TimToady said.
TimToady always winter, and never christmas
jnthn :'(
rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3,4; say @a[1..Inf] 23:39
masak rakudo: my ($i, $j); for (1..5) {print $i ||= $j+=5; $i++; print ",$j "}
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«5,5 6,10 7,15 8,20 9,25 »
jnthn rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3,4; say @a[1..*-1]
p6eval rakudo 82c9e9: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'WhateverCode'␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1745:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1746:CORE.setting␤ in 'Range::new' at line 4676:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<..>' at line 4739:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line
..22:/tmp/W…
jnthn ew er
masak :/
jnthn Why on earth does Cool::Numeric show up twice in the backtrace? 23:40
masak multi delegation?
masak submits rakudobug for that, too 23:43
jnthn Doesn't look very delegatory to me. 23:46
masak then I have no idea why.
backtrace printer bug?
jnthn yeah, that's what I'm fearing 23:47
Feel free to file it, I can take a look when I'm back.
23:55 ispeak_ left 23:57 risou joined

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