»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Set by diakopter on 6 September 2010.
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colomon \o 01:11
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mathw jnthn: Good blog post. Sounds like the multi-dispatch spec needs some more work. 07:21
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jnthn mathw: Yes, I'd certainly appreciate some answers to some of the issues I wrote about. 07:36
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sorear interesting 07:47
firefox is rendering the open quotes in jnthn's blog as em quads 07:48
but they copy to the clipboard as U+201C LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
mathw Firefox bug, or font bug... 07:49
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sorear fwiw, multiple dispatch of this sort is very confusing to me too 07:49
which is why I modified v6/STD.pm6 to not use it
mathw I don't find it so confusing, or at least I didn't 07:50
I wasn't actually aware there was a spec change around it so that confused me
sorear in other "spec change without asking" news, I find the new spec for Nil much less strangely consistent than the old one 07:51
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mathw Hmm we still have Nil? 07:55
Oh it was undef we got rid of
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masak good morning, #perl6! 08:54
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masak sorear: re Nil: I hear ya. however, I think that the most recent Nil changes were an improvement. 08:58
and I don't think that the one suggestion you have made so far -- to make Nil undefined -- would fly.
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sorear masak: no 09:02
masak: Nil being undefined is one of the parts of the CURRENT SPEC that I am complaining about
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masak oh, sorry. I meant '[...] suggestion to make () undefined' 09:05
flussence Are type objects without a value considered undefined? 09:09
masak type objects are undefined, period. at least to a first approximation. 09:12
flussence I can sorta see Nil-as-undef making sense there, as being a type object that can never have a value. 09:13
(assuming it works that way) 09:14
sorear Nil isn't a type object
it's a super magic parcel that has a CANDO and is not defined, but is a perfectly valid zero-item parcel
unlike Parcel, whcih is not defined and NOT a valid zero item parcel
also, () and {}.() used to both return Nil because they were exactly the same 09:15
now, the strange consistency of ( ... ) being a normal statement list is broken!
flussence this all sounds a lot more complicated than it needs to be 09:16
sorear That's what I said.
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masak here's one thing that we would like to be true: when we use .+ and .* and .?, the results come back in a Parcel. when the Parcel is empty, it's also undefined. that way, we can use infix:<//> to supply another value on failure. 09:19
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masak here's another thing that we would like to be true: when we do a map or a grep of a for loop, the results come back in a Parcel. when the Parcel is empty, (etc) 09:25
sorear what bothers me *most* is the part where assigning Nil to a variable causes it to assume its declared default value or to become empty and undefined
while assigning () causes it to remain defined
so LISTSTORE needs to differentiate between Nil and (), also every % and @ variable needs extra slots to store .defined and default value 09:26
this drives me up the wall as an optimization studier
sorear out 09:27
masak I agree that this whole area is full of corner cases. the waterbed is bulging more than usual. 09:28
Tene jnthn: very good blog post. I have some vague ideas about answers, but I need more thought. 09:29
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masak jnthn: "A candidate list is a list of things that we can work out way through calling." -- I don't understand this sentence. 6guts.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/wres...-dispatch/ 09:34
jnthn typo
s/out/our/
masak ah. 09:35
I read it as "work out way instain mother" :)
jnthn You need to frigth back against the lolinstinct now and then. :P 09:38
masak I am truely sorry. :P 09:40
frettled masak: look, a kitten! 09:41
masak and it's being chased by big angry brown things! 09:42
mathw DO NOT WANT
frettled Domoku? 09:44
not to be confused with pedobear
n
masak "domokun" sounds familiar, yes. 09:45
frettled upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1...kitten.jpg 09:46
Actually, it's just "Domo", but with the diminutive -kun added. 09:47
masak knew he could count on frettled++ to sort out the details 09:48
frettled \§/ 09:49
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dalek albot: 66aacfe | moritz++ | / (10 files):
move build scripts to a separate directory
 10:26
10:27 ggoebel left
Infinoid diakopter: ping 10:29
dalek albot: 671fe6e | moritz++ | build-scripts/rebuild- (3 files):
[build-scripts] be more robust about startup directory
 10:37
albot: dd14296 | moritz++ | build.pl:
add generic build script
albot: 801ef54 | moritz++ | build (2 files):
[build.pl] thinko
albot: 928e895 | moritz++ | build.pl:
mode changes
albot: 85abe2a | moritz++ | build.pl:
[build] fix paths
albot: bdbef9e | moritz++ | build-scripts/rebuild-rakudo.pl:
missing shebang line
albot: edbd64a | moritz++ | build-scripts/rebuild-rakudo.pl:
don't die in absence of revision file
 10:42
szbalint moritz_: good morning, I take it? :) 10:44
moritz_ good localtime() szbalint :-)
vacations here
masak \o/ 10:45
moritz_ \o/ indeed 10:47
masak jnthn: "These are the good consequences, and I don’t disagree with they are improvements." s/with/that/ 10:51
jnthn: post is very good so far.
jnthn :P
Apart from the typos...and grammaros...
It'd be so much easier if I could blog without having to use words. 10:52
Oh, wait...
masak an entire blog post consisting only of smilies and lolcats.
jnthn It's call icanhascheezburger.com :P
...called! 10:53
masak :)
dalek albot: eacb7e6 | moritz++ | run.sh:
add run script
jnthn I had this hope that writing the post would make the problem a bunch more clear to me. 10:54
moritz_ did it?
jnthn I don't feel like it helped find a solution, but having to articulate the issues helped me understand them a bit better. 10:55
masak I feel the same reading it.
jnthn++
jnthn I figured it was better to spend the time writing a coherentish post on them than trying to discuss it from scratch on IRC though.
moritz_ found it quite impressive
jnthn The issues are, I fear, quite deep.
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jnthn Either that or I'm missing something obvious. 10:56
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masak I'm now convinced that things need to change, one way or another. also modulo me missing something obvious. 10:56
jnthn I'd kinda prefer it to be that I'm missing something, but I fear that we actually do just have some design issues to work through. 10:57
masak it'll be really nice to get to those, though.
jnthn Yes, and I think we really need to.
masak lunch & 10:58
jnthn I also wonder how far the exception dispatcher thing goes.
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jnthn Can you nextsame to the next exception handler for example. 10:58
Not in current spec, but maybe there's an interesting unification to consider here. 10:59
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moritz_ moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/visitors.svg # non-search engine referral breakdown for perlgeek.de 11:16
generated with Perl 6, of course
colomon of course
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moritz_ :-) 11:16
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moritz_ perl6: say 'now on new host, diakopter++' 11:24
p6eval pugs, rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«now on new host, diakopter++␤»
dalek albot: 2710cd8 | moritz++ | lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm:
fix a path
colomon jnthn: What's the status of R* MSI on Windows? 11:26
(it looks like I've got R* from July on my Windows box, wondering if there is a more recent release available.) 11:28
moritz_ ftp://x3n.info/pub/apps/win32/x86/rakudo-star/ 11:29
colomon moritz_++ 11:30
sweet! 11:32
jnthn Aye, somebody++ != me did a more up to date one. 11:34
colomon I'm slowly getting ready to swap a new harddrive into my MBP, and making sure I can do my current $work project on my Windows box is an important paranoid step. :)
hmmm, guess I need ufo, too. :) 11:36
errr, does ufo work on Windows yet?
moritz_ would be surprised 11:41
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colomon well, it generated a very nice makefile 11:43
which doesn't work
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jnthn If it's anything like the ones pls makes, it'll be a pile of fail on Windows. 11:45
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colomon suppose I can probably get things working on my Linux box.... :\ 11:46
colomon rebuilding Rakudo there... 11:53
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colomon oh, neutro++ 12:03
masak tadzik++
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Kodi rakudo: sub f (:$a) { say "hai" }; f "a" => 1; # Known? 12:06
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/L0Ace0iz4a␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/L0Ace0iz4a␤»
colomon rakudo: sub f (:$a) { say "hai" }; f("a" => 1); # Known? 12:07
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/EdMrIcaFcT␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/EdMrIcaFcT␤»
Kodi rakudo: sub f (*%h) { say "hai" }; f now => 1; # Trickier.
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/xSZ3HiYL6B␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/xSZ3HiYL6B␤»
jnthn colomon: Correct 12:08
colomon: I'ts only a named arg if the LHS is unquoted iirc.
colomon !
Kodi rakudo: sub f (:$a) { say "hai" }; f(|("a" => 1)); 12:09
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/VOEZjn4aET␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/VOEZjn4aET␤»
Kodi Should that work?
colomon rakudo: sub f (:$a) { say "hai" }; f(a => 1); # Known?
jnthn rakudo: sub f (:$a) { say "hai" }; f(|{"a" => 1});
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«hai␤»
jnthn Needs to be a hash I guess
moritz_ aye
jnthn Maybe pair after | could be made to work
moritz_ a list will interpolate as positional pairs
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masak jnthn: if you got to decide, how would the multi/proto model look? as it did before the last big spec change? 12:42
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jnthn masak: As mentioned, there were genuine problems with that model too. 12:48
So I'm not sure going back to it is really progress. 12:49
The real user-visible problem with the current design is the need to write a proto. 12:51
The more minor one is we need to sort out or dispatcher vs code object story.
The other issues are much more about implementability.
masak I think I could stand writing a proto in a lexical scope, but I'd hate it in a class. 12:52
implementability is important for the user too. at least for the power user, who relies on a sound mental model of what's happening under the hood.
jnthn Yes, true. 12:53
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jnthn As somebody who has given a lot of Perl 6 talks, I do get nervous when I feel we're heading for an implementation that's too comlex to explain. 12:53
masak TheDamian once said about multi dispatch that it needs to be really really simple. much thanks to that sentiment, we ended up with the current rules for tightness. 12:54
(for a while we had manhattan distances and stuff)
jnthn Well, this is actually sort of orthogonla.
The problem isn't about the candidate sorting here. 12:55
But yes, simple++.
masak I know it's a completely different problem. 13:00
but I'm taking candidate sorting as an example because I consider that to be an area where we Got It Right(tm).
jnthn *nod*
masak right now it seems to be that we're in a bad situation: (1) old model was bad in some ways, (2) new model better in some ways, worse in some, and appears unimplementable, (3) no sane model in sight. 13:01
jnthn I'm still trying to understand where the problem really is, tbh. 13:02
I think part of it is that we've tried too hard to conflate dispatchers and code objects.
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moritz_ eats a slize of self-made hazelnut cake with a topping of white chocolate and nougat 13:04
jnthn Sharing the description without sharing the cake is cruel. :P 13:05
That sounds SO nice!
moritz_ and it is.. just visit me if you want a slice :-) 13:06
just a random thought... would it help to make the dispatcher-curried-with-candidate-list more explicit? 13:07
currently the spec tries to hide it under the hood, which might not work out too well 13:08
jnthn moritz_: That's somewhat what I'm thinking may help. 13:10
moritz_: It still doesn't answer everything though.
Particularly the "how do we associate the {*} in the proto with the correct candidate list"
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jnthn Which is the really big headache here. 13:10
moritz_ another thought (mostly unrelated): maybe &foo.wrap having an in-place, mutating effect is the real problem? 13:11
jnthn Not quite
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jnthn What is the real problem is that we expect &foo to refer to the proto 13:11
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jnthn But also to imply something about the candidate list 13:11
Which differs in different scopes
And you can't just say something like "oh, it's the calling scope" 13:13
Because referencing &foo in a given scope needs to capture that scope's idea of the candidate list
Wherever we end up doing the invocation from.
BTW, pondering submitting a Perl 6 talk to www.scandevconf.se/2011/call-for-papers/ 13:14
masak: It's in Sweden, dunno if you're interested in submitting to ^ too. 13:15
masak will check it out. thanks. 13:16
jnthn (Was thinking for the Emerging Technologies track)
masak ooh, it's in Göteborg. 13:18
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jnthn aye 13:19
De talar funny. ;-)
masak my favourite Swedish dialect. :) 13:20
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jnthn Huh? I thought Skanska was everyone's favourite. :P 13:26
daxim ♪ vinna kinky roligt ♪ 13:28
masak whoa :)
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jnthn ...win kinky really? 13:30
daxim the hat is yours, jnthn 13:31
jnthn
.oO( Sounds like it's a wizard hat...now, where's my coat... )
masak jnthn: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT9ZNJ2YS64
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slavik1 jnthn: robe 13:33
not coat
masak slavik1: damn I gotta write down your names or something 13:35
slavik1 ?
it should be slavik ... but auto auth doesn't work sometimes
masak thought you'd catch the reference. slightly obscure in-joke, perhaps.
slavik1 I didn't catch it all :( 13:36
jnthn Oh noes, epic lolknowledge fails.
masak there are three canonical bloodninja dialogues.
the above quote is from the third and shortest one.
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jnthn remembers it now :-) 13:37
slavik1 oh yeah
HA!
slavik1 read it again
masak :) 13:38
daxim I collected internet memes before they went mainstream
my next birthday party will be meme-themed
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jnthn I can already guess what the food is going to be. :-) 13:39
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dalek ok: 3e7c09b | moritz++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
[multi] remove a now obsolete comment
 13:45
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dalek ok: a0e9bcb | moritz++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
[multi] re-work introductory section based on feedback from jkeenan++ in github.com/perl6/book/issues/#issue/26
 13:56
jnthn moritz_: I did a commit to subs-n-sigs.pod not so long back that may have helped with some of jkeenan++'s issues.
Feel free to see if you think the patch closes any.
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BooK I need to ignore dalek 14:00
moritz_ feel free :-) 14:01
slavik1 dalek is not to be ignored! 14:11
masak BooK: your complaint is essentially that we commit too much around here? :) 14:17
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BooK masak: if I had a complaint, it would be about you guys having a project named after me ;-) 14:22
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masak BooK: that was my idea; sorry :/ 14:24
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moritz_ rakudo: say 'book' eq 'Book' 14:29
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
moritz_ doesn't know what BooK means
masak rakudo: say 'book' eq 'Book' eq 'BooK' 14:30
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
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moritz_ rakudo: say (a => 3).key.WHAT 14:39
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say (a => 3).key.PARROT
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«String␤»
moritz_ this is not good[tm]
rakudo: say (a => 3).key.trans(['a'] => ['b']) 14:40
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 2 passed, 3 (or more) expected␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/dyqTwRjc8F␤»
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masak we have that problems in more places than that. 14:41
moritz_ that's one that kills the to-json multi in the book :(
masak :(
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colomon rakudo: class A { method aaa() { say "aaa"; }; }; $b.aaa; 15:08
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤too few positional arguments: 2 passed, 3 (or more) expected␤»
colomon LTA
masak colomon: my $b
known bug.
rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=78252 15:09
colomon I see your response was much the same as mine. ;)
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colomon is anyone working on it? 15:11
masak not aware of anyone working on any RT ticket at the moment. 15:12
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colomon masak++ for knowing what is up 15:12
masak "I'm not aware" is not the same as "knowing what is up" :P
colomon wish this wasn't a distraction from $work at the moment.
masak I feel like that most every day. 15:13
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colomon "knowing what is up" means finding the RT ticket in seconds, BTW. 15:16
masak ah :) that's more a special sort of benign brain damage, if you ask me :P 15:17
szbalint masak has a neural interface to any issue trackers related to P6, or so it seems... :) 15:18
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masak it's quite convenient. except for the nightmares. *shudder* 15:19
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masak rakudo: sub f { print "OH HAI" }; &f.wrap: { print "-> "; callsame; print " <-" } for ^3; f 15:27
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«-> -> -> OH HAI <- <- <-»
masak \o/
colomon wacky 15:28
(in a good way)
masak rakudo: sub f { "OH HAI" }; &f.wrap: { "-> {callsame} <-" } for ^3; say f # even shorter 15:29
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«-> -> -> OH HAI <- <- <-␤»
slavik1 callsame is a keyword?
or what is it's meaning?
masak it's a subroutine.
slavik1 of what object? 15:30
colomon rakudo: sub f { "OH HAI" }; &f.wrap: { "-> {callsame} ||| {callsame} <-" } for ^3; say f
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«-> -> -> OH HAI ||| OH HAI <- ||| -> OH HAI ||| OH HAI <- <- ||| -> -> OH HAI ||| OH HAI <- ||| -> OH HAI ||| OH HAI <- <- <-␤»
slavik1 how does it translate to the string "OH HAI"
masak slavik1: it's a subroutine, hence not of any object.
slavik1 ahh
right
a special/global subroutine?
masak slavik1: "callsame" in the context of wrapping means "call the thing being wrapped".
yes, it's global and a bit special. 15:31
slavik1 gotcha
masak it talks to the dispatcher.
slavik1 perl6 is not so simple :(
unless I am trying to understand it more than I understand perl5
masak you probably are :)
Perl 6 has a simple centre, with paths leading away to more specialized areas, which are consequently more... involved. 15:32
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moritz_ just commented on RT #78252 15:39
colomon moritz_++ 15:40
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Juerd Hm, I would have expected something like inner instead of callsame. 15:43
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masak Juerd: multi dispatch and wrapping are unified in Perl 6, so both use [call|next][with|same]. 15:46
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Juerd masak: Ah, that makes it a little clearer: "same" should be read as "same arguments"? 15:52
masak it should indeed.
Juerd I was reading it as "same subroutine" 15:53
Which to me, would be the wrapper itself, and thus infinite recursion :) 15:54
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masak reading A12, 'nextsame' used to be spelled 'next METHOD'. 15:56
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masak rakudo: sub rot13 { $^input.trans([$_] => [.rotate(13)]) given "A".."Z" }; say "BU UNV".&rot13 16:07
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
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jnthn back from $dayjob 16:21
masak: (next METHOD) interesting, I guess then it was just for method dispatch, not generalized...
masak not sure where wrappers fit into that scheme. or if they did.
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jnthn masak: Don't know they did. Certainly I only became aware that they should share a mechanism recently-ish. 16:23
masak: I think it was at Go Open in Oslo, I'd been asking about this, and the answer was in TimToady's keynote. :-)
masak :)
swim & 16:24
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isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI!" }; &f.wrap: { " # -> {nextsame} +++ {nextsame} <-- #" } for ^3; f.say; 16:32
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &f␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/ucQ5dWZOLP␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI!" }; &f.wrap: { " :: -> {nextsame} +++ {nextsame} <- ::" } for ^3; f.say; 16:33
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &f␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/_s4jClr2jK␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI!" }; &foo.wrap: { " :: -> {nextsame} +++ {nextsame} <- ::" } for ^3; foo.say; # OH, right! :/
p6eval rakudo d35769: ( no output )
isBEKaml taking upon colomon++/masak++'s work - callsame isn't same as nextsame? 16:34
I thought they were
jnthn They both pass on the original arguemnt set 16:35
But callsame returns
And nextsame doesn't
isBEKaml I guess that's why nextsame is used within wrappers in roles...
rakudo: sub foo { "HAI!" }; &foo.wrap: { " :: -> {callsame} +++ {callsame} <- ::" } for ^3; foo.say; 16:36
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT« :: -> :: -> :: -> HAI! +++ HAI! <- :: +++ :: -> HAI! +++ HAI! <- :: <- :: +++ :: -> :: -> HAI! +++ HAI! <- :: +++ :: -> HAI! +++ HAI! <- :: <- :: <- ::␤»
isBEKaml nice. jnthn, can you tell me what .wrap does here? It takes any block and constructs something out of it? 16:37
not necessarily a sub, right?
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jnthn isBEKaml: It replaces the thing that the sub executes when called with what you pass with a dispatcher, which then works through a candidate list made up of the wrappers, in the order they were added, down to the original sub. 16:39
isBEKaml: callsame is just saying "I want to call the next thing down the list"
isBEKaml jnthn: ah, ha! So you can go on adding more wrappers and then .wrap would successively peel them away down to the original sub implementation.... /time_to_test_that/ :) 16:41
rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; &foo.wrap { "Hej" } for ^3 ; foo.say; 16:42
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "&foo.wrap "␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; &foo.wrap: { "Hej" } for ^3 ; foo.say;
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Hej␤»
isBEKaml uhh, that's replaced entirely. 16:43
rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; &foo.wrap: { "Hej"; &foo.wrap: { "Ahoj" }; } for ^3 ; foo.say; #nesting, anyone?
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«5␤»
isBEKaml heh
jnthn isBEKaml: Something like that, yes 16:44
No, it didn't replace it entirely. You just chose not to defer to the next thing in the list.
YOu have to do it explicitly.
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; &foo.wrap: { "Hej";{ &foo.wrap: { "Ahoj" }; }; } for ^3 ; foo.say; 16:45
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«5␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; &foo.wrap: { "Hej"; callsame; { &foo.wrap: { "Ahoj"; callsame; };}; } for ^3 ; foo.say;
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«7␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; &foo.wrap: { "Hej"; callsame; }; &foo.wrap: { "Ahoj"; callsame; }; foo.say; 16:46
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«HAI␤»
isBEKaml jnthn: the numbers don't make sense. :( 16:47
skids Should be last statement evaluated, so if you wanted to concat or say you'd have to say so. 16:48
jnthn isBEKaml: It's working as expected - what skids said.
isBEKaml no, I meant the numbers - 5 and 7 above.
colomon rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; say &foo.wrap: { ">" ~ callsame ~ "<" }; say foo
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«2␤>HAI␤»
skids return value of wrap.
jnthn Oh
Yeah, wrap just returns integer wrap handles at the moment 16:49
There's an RT whining about that.
colomon rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; say &foo.wrap: { ">" ~ callsame() ~ "<" }; say foo
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«2␤>HAI<␤»
colomon interesting.
isBEKaml Oh, I see...
jnthn Quite what a wrap handle would stringify to though, who knows. :-) 16:50
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; say &foo.wrap: { "Hej";{ say &foo.wrap: { "Ahoj" }; }; } for ^3 ; foo.say; 16:51
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«2␤3␤4␤5␤Bool::True␤»
isBEKaml interesting....
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isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; &foo.wrap: { "Hej{" ~ callsame ~ "}";{ &foo.wrap: { "Ahoj::" ~ callsame ~ "::" }; }; } for ^3 ; foo.say; 16:53
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«5␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; &foo.wrap: { "Hej{" ~ callsame ~ "}";{ &foo.wrap: { "Ahoj::" ~ callsame ~ "::" }; }; }; foo.say; 16:54
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«3␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: sub foo { "HAI" }; sub b { &foo.wrap: { "Hej{" ~ callsame ~ "}"; }; }; &b.wrap: { "Ahoj::" ~ callsame ~ "::" }; b.say; 16:56
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«Ahoj::2␤»
jnthn Guess I should figger out some noms. bbl. 16:57
isBEKaml Guess I should just go figgering the wraps of wraps... 16:58
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jnthn o/ mberends 17:29
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mberends oh hai jnthn! I'm about to commit a slightly less broken 6model/java update 17:30
jnthn Ooh! :-)
mberends the now-fixed problem was that LexPad was a struct, not a class, and Java has no structs :( 17:31
jnthn ouchyouchouch 17:32
It's a struct to save an allocation per context.
mberends the dotnet Context contained a LexPad that was never created, it just "was".
jnthn But anyway, make it work first. :-)
Right.
'cus structs need not be.
You may wnat to hand-inline it at some point though. 17:33
If that isn't the fix you've already done.
mberends I just jammed in a "new" at the appropriate spot ;) 17:35
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diakopter rakudo: 'faster now?'.say 17:37
p6eval rakudo d35769: OUTPUT«faster now?␤»
jnthn mberends: Well, that's the easy fix. :-) 17:38
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PerlJam Anyone got any good names for this month's Rakudo release? 17:58
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colomon woah, is it that time of the month again? 17:59
PerlJam yep
diakopter aunt flo
scnr
PerlJam There's only one suggestion in the release guide: BristolBath.pm 18:00
dalek odel: c025d33 | mberends++ | / (8 files):
[java:bugfix] make a Lexpad object to resemble the struct Lexpad in dotnet
PerlJam oh, I'm suppoed to invite people to update the ROADMAP/ChangeLog/etc. so ... have at it! :) 18:01
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mberends PerlJam: the Paris osdc.fr conference last weekend was very Perl6-friendly :) 18:12
er, weekend before last 18:13
jnthn Ooh, yes. That could work as a name. 18:15
PerlJam "Paris"? or "osdc.fr"? 18:16
I guess in keeping with the monger tradition it would have to be "Paris" 18:17
jnthn Aye
PerlJam so be it. 18:18
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masak ahojte! 18:51
takadonet masak: hey 18:52
mberends ahoy masak!
masak takadonet, mberends: hejsan :)
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mberends masak: the first Lego Mindstorms project just reached the walking and talking stage :) 18:57
masak clearly there's some potential in wrapping subs and producing fractals, as evidenced by isBEKaml's experiments in the log :)
mberends: wow, cool!
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masak mberends: so the gift was appreciated by both father and son, I take it? :) 18:59
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mberends masak: exactly :) 18:59
masak that's the best form of gift, if you ask me. :) 19:00
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moritz_ oh hai 19:30
"All in all the release team hopes to have these blockers sorted out by
the end of October, which would allow a release before Christmas."
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moritz_ from debian-devel-announce 19:30
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moritz_ further results for RT #78252: bisecting in rakudo was non-conclusive, ie identified the last revision... so it could be a parrot change :( 19:58
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s_mosher hi folks 20:26
I noticed higher-arity reduce() is unimplemented 20:28
after poking around, it seems like the obvious change works
but it was already in, just commented out, plus there was a test guard against $arity>2... which makes me ask: what did I just break? 20:30
jnthn s_mosher: Did you try make spectest to see if there was any fallout there? 20:31
Other than that, I'm not sure why it's commented out - I guess there's no explanatory comment?
s_mosher good idea
no, I hadn't
no, aside from the test guard, it just had "$res = $expression.(|@args);" commented out, replaced with "...(@args[0],@args[1])" 20:32
my best guess is maybe it has something to do with trailing terms causing unexpected behaviour 20:33
I'll wait to see if there's any explosions from spectests 20:34
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dalek kudo: 7c90370 | moritz++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
[Temporal] stylistic cleanup; no functional changes
 20:43
s_mosher jnthn, not failing any new tests in reduce 20:47
some are failing because of conflicting expectations in the comparison tests, but they dwim the same 20:49
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dalek odel: 30e4673 | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops.cs:
[dotnet] Add a couple of missing coercion ops to the runtime.
 21:13
odel: 1b9b061 | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/PAST2DNSTCompiler.pm:
Turn down constant optimization a notch, to un-regress a test.
odel: 579b172 | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops.cs:
[dotnet] euqal_refs op (for giving =:= functionality).
odel: cf07e79 | jnthn++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
[common] Some initial cuts of prefix + and ~, Stringy and Numeric in the NQPSetting.
odel: 98e707b | jnthn++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
[common] =:=
jnthn s_mosher: OK. It'd be interesting to know why the original thing was commented out. But feel free to send a patch in - that'll hopefully get someone to comment. 21:14
s_mosher sure, I'm going to investigate a bit more here first
I might add a guard test to ensure that arity agrees with the list length 21:15
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s_mosher jnthn, what's the best place to send a patch? 21:15
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jnthn s_mosher: [email@hidden.address] 21:17
s_mosher kthx
jnthn (it's for patches as well as bugs :-))
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dalek kudo: 6f065b0 | KodiB++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
[Grammar] Permit "time" or the like on the LHS of a fatarrow.
 21:31
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dalek ast: 26c1e24 | KodiB++ | S02-literals/pairs.t:
Added tests for "time" and the like on the LHS of a fatarrrow.
 21:34
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dalek odel: 7e36dac | jnthn++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
Give NQPList a .new method.
 21:45
odel: 832586c | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/PAST2DNSTCompiler.pm:
Implement PAST::Op with pasttype list.
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dalek odel: ca4842a | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/Actions.pm:
[dotnet] Fix sub vivitype up a little. my @a won't crash and burn during the compile now (though certainly arrays don't really work yet either).
 21:51
odel: 1e105a5 | jnthn++ | t/nqp/10-cmp.t:
We now pass 10-cmp.t.
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dalek odel: 8325634 | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/DNST2CSharp.pm:
Fix up string escaping - or at least, this should be enough for now.
 22:02
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dalek odel: 2de860c | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/PAST2DNSTCompiler.pm:
[dotnet] Support literals showing up in the PAST tree, as is allowed.
 22:28
odel: c05a516 | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/Actions.pm:
[dotnet] Override quote_delimited from HLL::Actions in JnthnNQP; it relies on :pirop<concat>, which of course won't fly on .Net. (One for pmichaud++ to ponder how to genericise, I guess. :-))
odel: ea3a9cb | jnthn++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
[common] Lists and arrays numify to number of elements.
sorear wonders how JnthnNQP's PAST will collide with PIRATE's POST when the two are merged 22:30
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jnthn sorear: I've not got any extra PAST nodes, I just compile various bits of NQP to different PAST in a few places. However, in nqp-rx's nom branch a bunch of those differences are already transfered. 22:32
(Far from all, mind.)
Anyway, yes, there'll be some effort to unify things, but I expect it can be done in lots of little steps.
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jnthn phenny: tell pmichaud I'm very uncomfortable with ++ and -- ops in NQP. They're very assigny, in an otherwise purely bindy language. The hack way to do them without assignment will corrupt my constants table ('cus, I haz one ;-)). Having them in Parrot's nqp-rx will only prevent us from doing that optimization. Vote to deprecate. 22:36
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
dalek odel: cfdd2fc | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/Actions.pm:
[dotnet] Another de-Parrotification in JnthnNQP. Now interpolation of embedded closures works.
 22:39
odel: 70dfa83 | jnthn++ | t/nqp/38-quotes.t:
We now pass 38-quotes.t.
sorear you don't want to interpret $x++ as $x := $x + 1 ? 22:44
jnthn Well, works for pre-increment, but not post-increment. 22:45
I guess you could find a way to make it work...
But it feels kinda...odd. 22:46
It's a better option than what happens now, though, if we want to keep it.
sorear I take it NQP currently implements FORTRAN-66 style constants? :) 22:47
jnthn NQP on Parrot doesn't have constants. :/ 22:48
NQP on .Net actually does build a constant table for all the PAST::Val nodes.
Because, well, it's just not that hard to do, so I did it. :-)
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jnthn I wouold say I'm not old enough to remember FORTRAN-66, but you're younger than me, so it's no excuse. :P 22:50
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dalek odel: abac6f9 | jnthn++ | t/nqp/53-knowhow.t:
We pass 53-knowhow.t for ages, but forgot to add it here. :-)
 23:22
odel: 7054cd8 | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Init.cs:
[dotnet] Enable the hack say/print to take many args.
odel: cbdd49b | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
[dotnet] Out with one bad hack, in with a slightly less bad one for undefined scalars.
odel: eaa51af | jnthn++ | t/nqp/23-named-args.t:
We now pass 23-named-args.t.
odel: 0d31eba | jnthn++ | t/nqp/06-args-pos.t:
Also passing 06-args-pos.t already.
23:22 cdarroch left
jnthn A few more baby steps towards NQP on .Net. :-) It's nice to have the energy to be writing code again. :-) 23:24
jnthn -> sleep, gotta make $dayjob at something resembling morning tomorrow :-) 23:27
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