»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Set by diakopter on 6 September 2010.
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masak sleep & 00:22
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jnthn good idea... & 00:24
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dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index...._io_tablet 01:10
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TimToady shortcircuit: the tsort would be more idiomatic P6, but we were working around some rakudo restrictions at the time 01:15
dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ble_tablet
TimToady some of which still exists, such as the absense of %hash{@keys} :pairs :delete
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TimToady it does appear we can get rid of the [] around [< foo bar>] now 01:19
dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....dex_tablet 01:21
tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ble_tablet
odel: c6db91a | diakopter++ | / (4 files):
[dotnet] more regex progress.

Added tests to 12-logical.t for the above. Add lots of debugging output to the regex engine. temporary. breaks the smartmatch test. Add a Stringy method to knowhow NQPArray
sjohnson perl-friend 01:26
hmm, anyone know if p6's s/pig/cow/<case insensitive flag> switch will be "back-ported" to p5? 01:27
TimToady the person who does it will know it first
sjohnson oops, i meant to ask, if anyone knows if it has already been done 01:30
:3 01:32
flussence samecase? 01:34
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sjohnson flussence: i dont know, is that the solution in p5? 01:37
flussence I'm guessing that's the p6 name of it...
with the direction p5's going in, it'll probably get backported sooner or later 01:38
sjohnson i hope!
in case you are curious, i am currently doing this. perhaps my solution is a bit juvenile:
there was a time where i had a string set to 'i' and did: s/moo/oink/$flag; but it quit working.. perhaps a newer version didn't like my cludgey idea. 01:42
flussence it might work as /(?$flag)/ 01:45
(perldoc perlre, line 415ish)
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sjohnson flussence: will do thanks 02:05
Frank_ Just curious -- I thought this might be a good time for me to check out Perl 6. Most of the docs for newcomers seems to suggest using Rakudo. Rakudo.org seems to have been down for several days now, and I haven't been able to find any announcements anywhere. 02:09
ash_ if you just want to try some things, you can do: 02:10
rakudo: say 1;
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤»
ash_ or try.rakudo.org/ 02:11
or checkout github.com/rakudo/rakudo or github.com/rakudo/star
i am sure someone's working on the rakudo.org site being down, which kinda stinks :-(
planetsix.perl.org/ has a lot of blog posts about perl6 02:12
Frank_ Ah, thanks, ash_, that should get me going.
ash_ perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 is good if you know perl5
Frank_ It just seemed weird that almost no one seemed to notice the site was down, or at least didn't think it worth mentioning. 02:13
ash_ someone mentioned it being down earlier 02:14
someones donating a vm slice for rakudo, so, it might be something wrong on their end? I am not sure, i don't manage that site 02:18
Frank_ the post by masak was the only one I could find, and that had more of a "please help me" tone than informative. I'm hoping this just means that someone is too busy fixing the problem to post an update.
ash_ perl6: say [+] 1..4 02:20
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p6eval pugs, rakudo : OUTPUT«10␤» 02:20
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xinming rakudo.org/ seems down. 05:28
plobsing It's not just you! rakudo.org looks down from here. 05:31
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sorear good * #perl6 06:09
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diakopter hi 06:24
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excelsio1 so how's that perl6 coming? 06:33
tylercurtis niecza: say "I'm pretty good, excelsio1." 06:35
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p6eval niecza 762b837: OUTPUT«I'm pretty good, excelsio1.␤» 06:35
sorear maybe I should drop my highlight on niecza. 06:36
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dukeleto is rakudo.org run on OSUOSL servers? 06:41
nope. 06:42
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sorear niecza: sub foo(*%h) { my @x = %h; say +@x }; foo(a => 3, b => 4); 07:25
p6eval niecza 762b837: OUTPUT«1␤»
sorear :/
niecza: sub foo(*@x) { say +@x }; foo(1,2,3,4); 07:26
p6eval niecza 762b837: OUTPUT«4␤»
sorear niecza: sub foo(*@x) { my @y = @x; say +@y }; foo(1,2,3,4);
p6eval niecza 762b837: OUTPUT«4␤» 07:27
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moritz_ good morning 07:48
tadzik: what's up with the advent calendar? are you going to start today? 07:49
cotto Do we get another one of those? 07:54
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redicaps Hi perl6 08:00
Do we have a advent calendar this year? 08:01
moritz_ cotto: yes, we have some planning for a perl6advent calendar this year
we just need tadzik to publish the first entry
cotto moritz_, I'll look forward to it. I loved it last year. 08:02
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tadzik moritz_: yeah, I'm starting today M 08:10
* PM
still no internets at home :( 08:11
while waiting, could some roofread/criticise my entry once again?
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moritz_ where? in the mu repo? or as a wordpress draft? 08:33
mathw ooh advent :) 08:34
dalek : 9f6b534 | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/reaching-the-stars.pod:
[p6advent] some tiny text improvements
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dalek ecza: fca89b3 | sorear++ | lib/JSYNC.cs:
[jsync] Support saving simple subclasses of Hash
ecza: a430103 | sorear++ | v6/ (2 files):
[v6] NAME and Stash is-a, not has-a, Hash
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sorear moritz_: your patience amazes me 10:42
moritz_ thanks :-) 10:47
sorear out 10:48
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masak oh hai, #perl6! 11:16
moritz_ oh hai masak
masak it's December! oh joy! 11:17
moritz_ aye
and the advent calendars grow like weed :-) 11:18
masak 'like weeds' :)
colomon yes, "like weed" is a very different thing altogether. :) 11:22
moritz_ :-) 11:23
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masak twitterer is disappointed. twitter.com/fsfiii/status/9797081313054720 11:41
frankly, I wouldn't mind having this feature either.
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flussence just fixed a bug someone reported on try.rakudo, how often does the live site get updated? 12:10
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moritz_ I don't think it's automatically updated 12:42
flussence hmm
well I've got a few more things to put in anyway...
wallberg hi all! what's up with rakudo.org ? 12:43
moritz_ it's down 12:44
wallberg :-( 12:45
flussence ok, I've stopped poking around (for now :) 12:47
takadonet morning all 12:54
who is in charge of rakudo.org? 12:55
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moritz_ takadonet: alester is 12:57
colomon now has his main $work testing script working with perlbrew's 5.12.1, and is currently installing Moose... 13:00
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dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index...._io_tablet 13:04
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colomon now has everything he needs to build niecza except for mono... 13:06
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dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ble_tablet 13:15
tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index...._io_tablet
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masak sorear: why is the executable called 'niecza_eval' rather than just 'niecza'? 13:18
or 'perl6'? :)
dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index...._io_tablet 13:20
moritz_ naming the executable 'perl6' is a bad idea, IMHO 13:21
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masak moritz_: in that case, what makes it a good idea to do it for Rakudo? 13:22
moritz_ masak: I think the reason was the presence of Niecza folder, which collided with the niecza executable on case insensitive file systems
masak: nothing
flussence well, the binary name wasn't taken at the time :D 13:23
masak but there's no Niecza folder. at least not anymore.
moritz_: also, could you motivate why it'd be a bad idea? 13:24
moritz_ masak: because it's not the perl 6, but a perl 6 - rakudo perl 6, to be specific
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masak moritz_: not sure I buy that. we're supposed to eventually be calling the executable 'perl', aren't we? 13:28
or is that a vestige of the Perl-6-is-a-successor world view?
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moritz_ masak: I think that I want to have an easy way to call each perl 6 compiler on my machine 13:29
flussence IMO, call the executable perl$version and let the distros decide what to symlink.
moritz_ having them all named 'perl6', because they all assume they are "the perl6" would be counterproductive 13:30
I'd much rather install a perl6 alias myself when I decide which one is "the perl6" for me now
dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ble_tablet 13:31
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masak moritz_: but you're something of a power user. I can easily see people who don't care about implementations and distributions wanting to have a 'perl6' binary or alias installed for them by default. 13:32
mathw Inscribed on my tuppence is the opinion that Rakudo should have a binary called 'rakudo'. A perl6 symlink or alias can easily be provided by packagers.
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thundergnat ping takadonet 13:35
takadonet thundergnat: yo
thundergnat Hey, I found a bug in your Algorithm--Diff port
takadonet sweet!
thundergnat Youve got an off-by-one error github.com/Takadonet/Algorithm--Di...ff.pm#L224 13:36
should be: return $prunedCount + @thresh if $counting;
BTW, I forked it and ported most of the rest of the subs to perl 6 and added a bunch of tests. 13:37
takadonet nice 13:38
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thundergnat It is at github.com/thundergnat/Algorithm--Diff if you have any interest. 13:38
masak thundergnat++
takadonet at the moment I'm just doing straight up ports without much thought in putting them in p6 idioms
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thundergnat Feel free to merge it back in or pick and chosse or whatever. 13:39
moritz_ or just hand out a commit bit :-)
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takadonet moritz_: if I knew how :( 13:39
thundergnat moritz_: or that :-)
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masak takadonet: there's an "Admin" button on your github repo page. 13:40
moritz_ takadonet: go to the project page, click the "admin" button
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moritz_ and then there's a list of collaborators somewhere 13:40
takadonet done 13:41
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takadonet thundergnat: i pushed out the changes sir 13:44
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thundergnat takadonet++l 13:45
++1? (I think i'm mixing my idioms.) 13:46
masak notifies alester via Twitter about rakudo.org being down
should have thought of that hours ago.
takadonet thundergnat: do what you like to the main branch of Algorithm::Diff 13:47
thundergnat moritz_: I was reading through your 5 to 6 articles and noticed a sentence that reads awkwardly. In the Junctions-Motivations section: "if the result is $this or the result $that" I think you a word out. :-) 13:48
masak accidentally. 13:49
moritz_ thundergnat: fixing now...
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rjbs Will there be a p6 advent calendar this year? 13:57
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tadzik rjbs: just creating the first post 13:58
rjbs Great!
tadzik I mean, posting the alredy-created one. While saying, anyone having some last words?
masak go for it! :)
tadzik (I sometimes imagine, what our words will be like when we will come to the conclusion "wow, we are ready to release beta") 13:59
moritz_ tadzik: last words: use pod2html 14:00
tadzik moritz_++
I'll have to omit <html>, no?
moritz_ right 14:01
and the headers etc.
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tadzik Looks like <h2> is bigger than <h1> :F 14:03
masak CSS is no cure against insanity :P
Juerd <html> is a stupid tag anyway, just like anything that encloses an entire document
Yay for "class Foo::Bar;"
masak Juerd: with that reasoning, <html> makes sense any time you embed HTML into something. 14:04
Juerd It does.
flussence it's only mandatory if you're writing strict-xml-mimetype xhtml :)
tadzik perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/0...the-stars/
masak tadzik++ \o/ 14:05
Juerd flussence: Indeed. I omit <html>, <head> and <body>. First tag after the doctype is <meta> or <title>.
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tadzik reddits 14:05
Juerd s/ and/, and/
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masak s/fullfiling/fulfilling/ 14:06
tadzik where? 14:07
masak just grep.
tadzik masak: do you have a commit bit?
masak guess so, but please change it yourself :)
tadzik sure
masak I haven't finished reading yet.
there's an unwanted newline after 'built' before 'around it'. 14:08
also, I wonder whether there shouldn't be a new paragraph after 'ecosystem.'
tadzik it seems like html didn't format the paragraphs for me
masak tadzik: this is what "Preview" is for in Wordpress. 14:09
moritz_ detects an unusual impatience or grumpiness in masak
moritz_ hugs masak
flussence pfft, real bloggers don't use preview/send raw postdata over netcat/etc
masak moritz_: thanks :)
I don't think I'm excessively grumpy... and tadzik may choose whatever workflow fits him best with the advent posts. 14:10
but I do know that the Preview button proved very useful to me.
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masak I apologise if saying so came out a bit harsh. :) 14:11
tadzik: if you're done editing the post, I could have a go at it. 14:13
tadzik masak: I seem to have no luck with either of wordress editors 14:14
masak then allow me.
tadzik It seems to add \n after every ~80 chars
please go on
masak tries
moritz_ tadzik: int he HTML view, just make sure there are no newlines within a paragraph
ss/int he/in the/
tadzik moritz_: well, I just removed the newlines in the html view, and they seem to be back somehow 14:15
moritz_ fwiw I just did pod2html with my article, post-processed it with vim, and copied into the HTML box
it's now scheduled for publishing at midnight (dunno which time zone though :-)
mathw there is only one time zone! 14:16
it's the one they use in New Zealand
all other time zones are illusions
masak tadzik: done. releasing edit lock :) 14:20
tadzik masak++ :)
so, what do we havfe for the 3rd?
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tadzik Also, I'll need a vice-pumpking (pumpprince?), I'll be gone 3-5 14:21
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tadzik battling under Austerlitz :) 14:21
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tadzik oh wait, I'm for the 3rd 14:22
I'll try to mangle it up today
so, volunteers for the 5th?
masak surely there aren't fewer people available this year than last year...? 14:31
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tadzik I don't know. I don't know how it was organized last year, but as I'll be gone on 5th I'd feel better knowing that there's someone to blame^Wcount on 14:32
colomon tadzik: don't worry, we'll make sure it goes
moritz_ masak: last year we didn't fill all slots in advance either 14:33
masak that is so.
moritz_ tadzik: I can vice-pumpking the calendar if you want
tadzik moritz_: I'd feel better, thanks 14:34
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masak immediate observation from using niecza: it may be faster than rakudo, but it has a longer startup time. 14:54
takadonet by how much? 14:55
masak timing both once with -e 'say 42' gives 5.2s for niecza and 1.9s for rakudo here. 14:56
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masak sorear: 'print' doesn't seem to be implemented. is that low-hanging fruit? 15:00
can I help? :)
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masak sorear: niecza complains bitterly when I 'use v6' 15:02
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zenog sorear: Does niecza support loading and accessing C# classes? 15:03
moritz_ masak: fwiw, niecza has an issue tracker :-) 15:04
(on github)
masak pours out his heart into the issue tracker 15:05
tadzik and that, gentleman, is how the universe began
masak "gentleman"? who're you talking to? :P 15:06
moritz_ certainly not to the crayz Swede with the sledge hammer
masak no, didn't think so :) 15:07
daxim crazy swedes with bombs. all swedes are terrorist, aight? pajamasmedia.com/blog/calling-a-swede-a-swede/ 15:08
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masak every word in that article is, unfortunately, true. 15:24
daxim hail odin 15:25
masak but only in the parallel universe.
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ch3ck3r masak \o 15:33
masak ch3ck3r: greetings. how are your Perl 6 explorations going?
ch3ck3r masak: not at all - i'm still using perl 5 15:34
masak I'm still using Perl 5 too. it's a fine language.
ch3ck3r yeah 15:35
moritz_ and it has a great ecosystem
masak ch3ck3r: but if you thought "i'm still using perl 5" was a reason for "not at all [exploring Perl 6]" then I must both disagree and put on a look of honest confusion. 15:36
ch3ck3r :)
i was reading was wikipedia has to say about perl 6 15:37
is that ok? ;)
masak it's a start.
PerlJam ch3ck3r: the places where it says perl 6 is vaporware are lying :)
ch3ck3r hrhr 15:38
masak anyway, I was just curious. you've started greeting me, so I thought it'd be ok to start querying you about your "spiritual development" on the channel. :)
PerlJam: it says that? :(
PerlJam masak: there are some entries that (used to) talk about Perl 6 in those terms.
I haven't looked recently.
(the main Perl 6 entry doesn't say that of course) 15:39
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masak kinda likes the fact that there's a Wikipedia article "Perl 6 rules" 15:40
tadzik :) 15:41
moritz_ but last time I read it, it was totally out of date
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moritz_ or the corresponding section in the Perl 6 article was 15:41
tadzik cute
that'd be a nice GCI task 15:42
bringing wikipages up to date
rjbs P6 Advent Editor: English does not use subscribe quotation marks, ever.
tadzik hm?
rjbs The „official” part 15:43
tadzik oh, my fault
rjbs "official" or “official”
tadzik “official”, right?
moritz_ rjbs++
rjbs Not a big deal, but will confuse English readers who have not encountered bizarre foreign customers. :)
customs, even
tadzik In Polish you use „this kind of quotes”
fixed-faxed 15:44
PerlJam It didn't confuse me and I've never seen those sort of quotes before. 15:46
But then perhaps I'm biased toward the strange a little bit by virtue of hanging out here :)
flussence use <q> tags, then it becomes the browser's problem 15:47
masak I noticed it, but thought it was cute and cultural. :)
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mathw I noticed, but I figured it's not really all that important. English speakers would be far more confused by « » quoting. 15:53
moritz_ really? I've seen them in books all the time 15:54
but maybe those weren't english books :-)
masak likely not.
tadzik I've seen them in Polish books too 15:55
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mathw I first encountered them in a German translation of a Star Wars book 15:56
PerlJam Why would english speakers be confused by guillemets?
mathw they never show up in native English, we generally don't even know the characters exist
PerlJam I always go with "the reader is smart" and will figure out what these symbols mean based on the context in which they are used. 15:57
mathw I've only seen them a few times in English text, always written by non-native speakers
yeah people could probably figure them out by context 15:58
rjbs I don't think anybody would really be confused.
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rjbs It's just incorrect, and would be easier to read if corrected. 15:58
In other words: it would slow down reading.
PerlJam rjbs: only the first time they were encountered. :) 15:59
rjbs Sure, but why use them at all?
Anyway, not trying to be a pedant, just trying to help keep things smooth sailin'
PerlJam This is Perl 6 we're talking about! People should embrace strange symbols and get used to seeing them now rather than later.
er :-)
mathw I'm just bored :) 16:00
and going home
tadzik I'm very sorry I accidentally got used to them
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rjbs tadzik: You are a terrible person. 16:00
tadzik :(
rjbs sends tadzik to the Java mines. 16:01
masak hugs rjbs
rjbs: I got a hug today. now seemed like a good time to pass it on.
flussence noooo! don't send him to minecraft, you'll never see him again! 16:02
rjbs Thanks! Perhaps I will pass it on to my 3yo.
masak (yes, we recognize sarcasm in here. we just don't acknowledge its authority.) :P
rjbs tends to avoid sarcasm as much as possible, at least in text.
It's a lousy form of humor, and when misunderstood just leads to bad feelings. 16:03
moritz_ likes sarcasm
PerlJam moritz_: were you using it just now?
moritz_ PerlJam: no
PerlJam just checking :) 16:04
moritz_ :-)
rjbs PerlJam: Great question.
rjbs adds p6advent to his 2010 advent calendars list.
tadzik rjbs: weren't you using it just now?
masak I'm sorry I mentioned the word "sarcasm" :) 16:05
rjbs tadzik: The world may never know.
PerlJam tadzik: no, I think he was being sincere rather than sarcastic
(at least I'd like to believe that so it must be so :)
rjbs If I wanted to publish a web design advent calendar, I would want it to look better than 24ways.org/ 16:06
PerlJam masak: Here's something to think about then: when you hugged rjbs, I considered doing the same and then I thought, "what if everybody hugged rjbs?" and then I coined "hugpile" in my head. So, feel free to start hugpiles anytime :) 16:07
tadzik "terrible" sounds like something that can be either sarcarstic or nice
or even sarcastic. Colemak is hard 16:08
masak PerlJam: in a circle of friends I'm part of, we already have hugpiles. but we call them "hugging according to the principles of Dr. Volkov" :)
PerlJam: I've been at the bottom of such a pile. with five or so people on top of you, it's hard to breathe. also, my mobile phone lost a couple of functions from the pressure. but overall it was still a nice experience. 16:09
colomon ack. mono on my CentOS is version 1.2.4. :( 16:10
I think this is going to be one of Those Days.
PerlJam colomon: It's the first day of advent! It's *got* to be one of *those* days. 16:11
masak it's Yapsi release day. 16:19
tadzik oh!
colomon sorear: ping?
tadzik and how many days to the announcement?
masak 9. 16:20
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masak alester replies on Twitter that he wasn't aware rakudo.org was down. 16:26
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alester OK, who broke rakudo.org? 16:27
TimToady who didn't unbreak it?
masak did there have to be an active agent breaking rakudo.org?
I think the past day or so show how much people would like it to work, at least.
alester: I'm glad I checked with you, rather than just assume that you were already working day and night to fix it. 16:28
alester masak: Next time, please send me an email though.
masak ok.
alester The only reason I saw your tweet was 'cause my Google Alert picked it up.
I'm kicking over Apache. 16:29
(Step 1: Turn it off and back on again)
ta-da! 16:30
masak alester++
alester BEHOLD THE POWER OF /etc/init.d/httpd restart!
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masak next time, how do we avoid everyone just assuming that alester knows about rakudo.org being down? 16:30
alester Everyone email me. 16:31
masak I like that plan.
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colomon phenny: tell sorear Do you have a better explanation of what bits of mono are needed for niecza, for those of us who can't just apt get mono-complete? Thanks! 16:33
phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
alester masak: I figure that that is a fine plan until it becomes unworkable. 16:35
masak exactly.
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PerlJam colomon: I made do with only mono-xbuild and mono-gcms 16:55
er, mono-gmcs 16:56
diakopter if you're building from source just build all 17:03
colomon: on which platform are you? 17:13
macosx? centos? 17:14
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ash_ rakudo.org is back up, /yay 17:22
[Coke] alester++ 17:25