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Set by diakopter on 6 September 2010.
jnthn zzz& 00:02
masak nom &
lichtkind is there no strict in perl 6? 00:38
PerlJam lichtkind: are you asking if you can turn stricture off? 00:39
lichtkind yes
dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ics_tablet 00:56
[Coke] (trouble building rakudo on parrot) trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1884 01:27
I had a typo so I wasn't actually realcleaning parrot. (I don't think I should have to realclean to get this to work, though.) ... but now that I've done a realclean and blown away the cached value, I should be able to build rakudo again. So if it comes up again - "realclean" is the answer. :P 01:31
Miesco whats wrong with this, why wont it increment?: perl -wlE 'my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = $cs++; say $nc;' 02:10
perl6: 'my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = $cs++; say $nc;' 02:12
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "'my $cs = "␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "ZZ9"␤ expecting term postfix or operator␤ at /tmp/7R4DrwD6my line 1, column 12␤»
colomon rakudo: my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = $cs++; say $nc; 02:13
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«ZZ9␤»
colomon rakudo: my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = $cs++; say $nc; say $cs;
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«ZZ9␤AAA0␤»
colomon It does increment, as you can see.
Miesco oh
colomon you perhaps wanted 02:14
Miesco thanks!
colomon rakudo: my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = ++$cs; say $nc; say $cs;
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«AAA0␤AAA0␤»
Miesco How do you convert a string to an array reference? 02:30
colomon In what sense? 02:37
rakudo: say "a b c d e f g".split(" ") 02:38
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«abcdefg␤»
colomon rakudo: say "a b c d e f g".split(" ").perl
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f", "g")␤»
colomon or
rakudo: say "a b c d e f g".comb(/\S/).perl
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f", "g")␤»
PerlJam Anyone know off hand if it's possible to do a runtime use with rakudo? 03:19
kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!' 03:24
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Sure PerlJam!␤»
kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam! if( 'perljam' ) { require Math } ' 03:25
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 'Sure "␤»
kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 'perljam' ) { require Math } '
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if( 'perlj"␤»
kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { require Math } '
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if( 1 ) { "␤»
kthakore awww 03:25
I suck
rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { use Math; } ' 03:26
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Math' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ lib␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/2.10.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { use ; } '
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if( 1 ) { "␤»
kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { use v6; } else { use v7; }' 03:27
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if( 1 ) { "␤»
kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { use IO; } else { use v7; }'
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'IO' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ lib␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/2.10.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
kthakore something like that
PerlJam I tried the obvious things, but they didn't seem to work. :) 03:30
kthakore PerlJam: rlly? 03:31
but I find that obvious usually works in perl
perl6
wayland76 Hi all. 04:05
I have a perl6 question.
dukeleto I would like to make some Google Code-In translation tasks for Perl 6. What documents about Perl 6 need to be translated into other languages?
wayland76 Once a grammar is applied to a string, and a Match object is obtained, is it possible to take the Match object and the grammar, and reverse the parse to obtain the original string? 04:06
colomon wayland76: In Rakudo, the original string is stored in the match object. I'm not sure if that's spec, and I'm not sure how to get back to it... 04:07
PerlJam wayland76: sounds like you want to walk the parse tree, concatenating the stringy versions of $/ as you go along. 04:08
colomon rakudo: my $m = "This is a test" ~~ /is/; say $m.perl
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 2,␤ orig => "This is a test",␤ to => 4,␤)␤»
PerlJam wayland76: but the top-level $/ will be the entire string matched anyway, so ...
colomon rakudo: my $m = "This is a test" ~~ /is/; say $m.orig
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«This is a test␤»
wayland76 My reason for wondering was that I figured it would be nice to parse a file, modify the match object, and then say "write this back to the file" 04:10
wayland76 Would it make sense to have a function on the match object that says "walk my children and, concatenate the stringy versions of $/ "? 04:11
(sorry, extra comma -- ignore)
sorear good * #perl6 06:09
sorear kthakore: if( 1 ) is wrong, wrong, wrong and only works in Rakudo due to a bug. anysequenceofletters( is always a function call in term position. You wanted if 1 instead; if you insist on parens, they have to be separated from if by a space 06:12
wayland left :/ 06:13
kthakore sorear: aww sorry 06:15
kthakore rakudo: say "sorry sorear" 06:20
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«sorry sorear␤»
masak oh hai, #perl6 06:38
PerlJam, kthakore: as far as I know, you were on the right track with 'require', but since it's run-time, it doesn't have the same syntax as 'use'. 06:40
er. scratch that. seems it does. 06:41
sorear hello masak ! 06:58
masak hi sorear!
aaah. another glorious day in Perl 6 land. 06:59
and only one day left to the Big Announcement. :) 07:00
sorear 1 hour yet in my timezone and I'm still feeling quite productive. 07:00
while out today I figured out how to make require work. 07:01
sorear which is an important first step to eval 07:01
masak 'require' is a prerequisite to 'eval'? 07:02
sorear they both involve adding a compilation unit to a Perl 6 interpreter at runtime 07:03
masak that they do. 07:04
so they have a common prerequisite.
dalek ok: b03cd9d | (Jeffrey T. Palmer)++ | src/operators.pod:
Fix minor typos

Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz [email@hidden.address]		 07:11
moritz_ good morning
masak morning!
sorear C#-- # condition ? F1() : F2(); is a syntax error 07:54
masak why?
sorear the expressions allowed in void context are very limited 07:57
only stuff with obvious side effects
this hasn't bothered me at all until just now 07:58
moritz_ such things usually start to bother you when you generate code :-) 08:03
sorear I retroactively appreciated it when I noticed how much of a win dead code elimination was :-) 08:05
dalek ecza: 3aadb1f | sorear++ | src/Metamodel.pm:
Decouple sub tree from lexicals system
 08:06
ecza: cb82aa3 | sorear++ | / (5 files):
Implement INIT phaser
dalek ecza: b46d150 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
Reimplement monkey typing using phasers
 09:03
ok: 8828824 | hinrik++ | / (2 files):
Skip testing S26, since Perl6::Perldoc currently can't parse it
 09:09
ok: 1d294d7 | hinrik++ | Changes:
v0.25

   - Skip testing S26, since Perl6::Perldoc currently can't parse it
masak & 10:00
sorear & 10:02
moritz_ fg 10:04
tadzik o/ 10:11
moritz_ \o
tadzik: how's the advent post coming? 10:12
tadzik moritz_: it's not, yet :) I just finished my labs on Uni in 3 hours instead of 4, so I have some time to at least start it
survey: what existing perl 6 module do you like/use often? 10:25
moritz_ JSON::Tiny 10:27
SVG
SVG::Plot
moritz_ 's vanity alert flashes, since he developed them
tadzik (: 10:28
moritz_ not vanity, actully. I just developed modules that I wanted to use
and now I'm using them
tadzik hrm 10:30
I wonder if that wouldn't actualy result in duplicating the so-you-want-to-write-a-module post 10:33
(duplicating the content, that is)
I feel out of ideas :| What do you think the post should contain? 10:36
moritz_ things like: go to modules.perl6.org for a list of modules
for installing them, download neutro
types these lines for bootstrapping neutro 10:37
then do neutro Foo::Bar
point to your post about starting modules
tadzik oh, so also 'how to install modules', sure 10:40
dalek : 26c1b4a | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/module-system.pod:
Added an initial version of today's article
 11:02
tadzik proofreading and further ideas will be more than welcome
moritz_ +Modules will be installed to C<~/.perl6/lib> as well, so assuming your 11:04
42
+PERL6LIB is alredy set, you are now able to use the installed modules:
the point of ~/.perl6/lib is that's in the search path by default
so PERL6LIB doesn't need to be set
tadzik really?
cute
moritz_ rakudo: .say for @*INC 11:05
tadzik so even the warning in neutro is worthless
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«lib␤/home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤/home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/2.10.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤.␤»
tadzik cool
flussence I think "./lib" should be in there by default too...
moritz_ apart from that: very nice
tadzik: one more thing... the title doesn't quite fit to the contents of the post
it's not primarily about writing modules
tadzik oh, right
I've been changing the title like 5 times alredy :)
moritz_ Perl 6 Modules - an incomplete story 11:06
flussence I'd comment on the post, but I've horribly screwed up X and my system's in the middle of an update already 11:07
moritz_ flussence: if you have a checkout of the mu repo, just use perldoc to view it
flussence facepalm
yeah, that'd be easier :)
tadzik or just pod2text 11:08
dalek : 8ef15ef | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/module-system.pod:
Fix a few things
 11:09
tadzik leaving for my programming classes, wil be back later
flussence I didn't have a clone of it already, but wow, that's a big repo.
moritz_ it contains the full history of the pugs repo 11:10
plus a bit
$ git log|grep ^commit|wc -l
32217
flussence there's a Term::ANSIColor? Nice. 11:14
tadzik flussence: ha! there's even two! 12:19
flussence: is there anything you'd like to see in the article? 12:21
flussence tadzik: nothing comes to mind, looks good to me 12:32
I saw a Term::$something for p5 the other day that does 256 colours, I'm not a fan of having to remember that many colour names though 12:34
(I'd much prefer to just pass in rgb values and have it figure out the best palette entry)
.oO( something else for me to write... )
 12:36
tadzik unluckily, there is no rgb in ansi terminals 12:37
smash hello everyone 12:44
moritz_ oh hai
takadonet morning all 13:00
smash takadonet: mornin' 13:03
PerlJam good * #perl6! 14:21
moritz_ good now, PerlJam 14:22
colomon rakudo: say ((1, 2) Z, (3, 4)).Str 14:23
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«2 4 2 4␤»
moritz_ PerlJam: let me remind you that you're scheduled for the advent calendar tomorrow
PerlJam aye.
colomon I'm scheduled for Sunday, right?
PerlJam Feel free to give me ideas too. I feel idea-less and have for a while. 14:24
takadonet who posting today?
PerlJam (yes, I have read the brain storming, but nothing "clicks") 14:25
moritz_ takadonet: tadzik
colomon: you're scheduled for the 11th, which I believe is Saturday
PerlJam: since I've dumped all my ideas into the brainstorm, I can't offer more 14:26
moritz_ I have a TODO list for my blog, but it turns out that I already consulted it for the advent list 14:27
the only remaining item is "why numeric types don't fit well with mathematical types" 14:28
PerlJam Dr Pepper + cashews make for an interesting "breakfast" 14:30
moritz_ that reminds me, I have a can of cachews open at home, which we used for our last curry
oha maybe usefull, but i would like to read something about minidbi and dbi in general 14:31
masak PerlJam: write about something in Perl 6 that you like... :) 14:37
PerlJam masak: I like too much :) 14:38
masak en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_o...re_Is_Less :)
moritz_ hates that big banner on top of WP pages 14:39
PerlJam moritz_: me too! 14:40
wikipedia--
moritz_ and even if I adblock it, the text remains
and wastes space
I can click on the small X box to close it, but that choice isn't remembered
wikipedia--
</rant>
PerlJam greasemonkey could help 14:41
moritz_ but I shouldn't have to
flussence I think it only appears with JS turned on (I've never seen it)
masak moritz_, PerlJam: i.imgur.com/GHWO3.png :) 14:47
moritz_ masak: :-) 14:48
[Coke] I am stunned that people surf the web with JS disabled. 14:58
(but then, I write web apps for a living) 14:59
mathw I've always thought it was a bit excessively paranoid
But then, they'd probably say I'm being an idiot
masak I sure the web with JS disabled. in one of my browsers.
mathw And when you get right down to it, I'm probably stupid for having my computer connected to the internet
masak I also write web apps.
there are clear risks with having JS enabled by default, but I do it for performance reasons. 15:00
PerlJam masak: sounds like the exact justification that Microsoft used for all of the insecurities in their operating system. 15:01
moritz_ usually doesn't want all the interactivity that js offers 15:02
I often just want to read a page
flussence likes predictable UIs
PerlJam moritz_: you're just old fashioned :)
masak likes a gracefully degrading web
moritz_ no flashy toolbars, comment markers, real-time loaded tweets, ...
PerlJam: indeed I am.
masak I'm old-fashioned in that way too. 15:03
I sincerely believe much of the web is designed wrongly in an absolute sense.
PerlJam I want a UI that caters to my needs and desires so that I don't have to think about things that are irrelevant to whatever task I'm trying to accomplish.
moritz_ I'm active in a german web forum, and in the "homepage" section people often ask how to always show the same URL in the title bar, regardless of which subpage you're currently visiting
masak Gmail is one of the few Ajax apps that got the back button right. 15:04
moritz_ I never understood why people want so tight control over their website, at the cost of the visitor
that's like wanting to forbid references to individual chapters or pages of a book 15:05
(the last one wanted it for security reasons.... somebody hacked his site, and he thought he could prevent that hiding the URL. 'nough said).
s/that/that by/
PerlJam masak: what do you think of the latest github changes?
masak PerlJam: so far I've only noticed that things slide sideways. 15:06
PerlJam yeah, I think that's the only major change
masak I'm ok with that, although I don't find that it adds anything. 15:07
PerlJam It adds a little bit of instant gratification :)
masak something about it feels a bit like the Mac OS X interface.
moritz_ www.infoq.com/news/2010/12/verve-msft # a type safe operating system (prototype) 15:12
dalek : 7e4977f | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/module-system.pod:
More fixes in module-system article
 15:26
tadzik any last words, last ideas?
moritz_ ship it! 15:28
alester tadzik: Do you have a link to a list of all advent entries?
moritz_ the day is nearly over in my time zone :-)
alester So that if someone sees that one article, they can link to see all of them?
tadzik alester: I don't think so. But we could mangle wordpress a bit to show it, no> 15:29
tadzik moritz_: aren't you in Gernamy? 15:29
alester tadzik: Are all these entries in a category?
What site are you posting to?
moritz_ tadzik: yes. More than 2/3 of the day is already passed 15:30
perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/ works, but it's not links
alester You're not tagging these? 15:31
Just tag them as "Advent" and then you can link to an Advent aggregate page
Or not. I'm just strirring up shit. :-) 15:32
But I figure that someone's going to see a mention of it and want to see the rest.
tadzik I created a category 2010, but I think I'm the only one adding entries to a category :) 15:33
moritz_ tadzik: I do too, unless I forget
PerlJam tadzik: I've modified the other entries to use those categories (2009,2010)
tadzik PerlJam++
alester Also, I really like tagging in WordPress
it's butt simple and makes it real easy to get good tag lists. 15:34
see tag cloud on right column techworklove.com/
I'm about thisclose to moving Perlbuzz over to WordPress, too.
Which I realize is almost heretical, but MT vs. WP is night/day. 15:35
PerlJam alester: not heretical at all. Just pragmatic. 15:35
alester I kow.
There's just no Perl-based blogging software that comes close.
tadzik loliblogged!
perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/0...ecosystem/ 15:36
colomon \o/
moritz_ \o/ 15:37
alester Tweeted twitter.com/#!/perlbuzz/status/128...2110142464
tadzik oh nice :)
PerlJam btw, perhaps this is just my pedantry showing through, but all of the titles start with "Day N" except for day 4 and all of them use "Day N -" except that days 6 and 7 use "Day N:" Should we strive for consistency here?
tadzik (I hope it will be well-received, I have a strange feeling like "it could have been better") 15:38
. o O ( strangely consistent )
PerlJam tadzik: artists always feel that way about their own work.
tadzik :]
maybe I'm an artist then, if I'm quite sure my photography sucks :) 15:39
masak I believe it's cool to use Perl software on the web, but I don't believe it's heretical not to.
tadzik I remember this troll HIBOU trying to prove that Rakudo is unusable, because we use Wordpress, which is PHP 15:40
PerlJam tadzik: I use "artist" in the general sense of "someone who creates some original work"
tadzik I know, I'm just kidding around :) 15:40
smash PerlJam: programming, in general, can be an art 15:41
tadzik: the post looks great
moritz_ PerlJam: some consistency wouldn't be bad 15:42
masak indeed. tadzik++
PerlJam tadzik: having just read and went through your instructions, the only thing I would change is that I would emphasize adding ~/.perl6/bin to your PATH more.
tadzik: i.e., rather than saying "assuming it's in your path", I'd say, "make sure it's in your path"
tadzik++ indeed
tadzik PerlJam: it's a tricky part, you set it differently everywhere 15:43
tadzik redditing the post 15:45
(disregard trolls, aquire karma)
PerlJam tadzik: Well, reading from an "outsider's" perspective, you say "assuming ~/.perl6/bin is in your PATH" and I would think "why would that be in my PATH? What else is in ~/.perl6? What is its function?" etc.
tadzik PerlJam: hmm, quite right
I have 10 minutes of battery life though... will try to fix it a bit
tadzik www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/eiz01/ lolireddited 15:46
post updated, hope it's better 15:48
arnsholt I just increased the meme factor of my presentation by one. With a Latin Rickroll =D 15:49
Now I just need a good latinisation of Rick Astley's name for the attribution ^^ 15:50
moritz_ Riaccomo 15:50
arnsholt I've gotten as far as Ricardus Paulus
But Astley is giving me trouble, for obvious reasons =) 15:51
masak does the name mean anything? 15:54
you could translate by meaning.
arnsholt Apparently it's a compund noun, meaning "east (of the) meadow" 15:56
arnsholt has an idea 15:57
masak that sounds workable. 15:58
arnsholt I'll probably go with Ricardus Paulus Prati Orientis (Richard Paul of the East Meadow) 15:59
masak nice! 16:05
arnsholt Yeah, I think that'll work 16:08
Now I just have to hope someone asks what the Latin quote I used as an example means =)
masak I'm doing the last bit of preparing now for the Big Announcement tomorrow. 16:12
I hope you're appropriately on edge :) 16:13
colomon is on edge... 16:23
masak I'm prepared to give out a fourth and final clue, if there's interest. 16:24
colomon clue! clue! clue! 16:25
masak the crowd has spoken.
here it is: wins.failblog.org/2010/12/05/epic-w...tiful-win/
colomon does it have anything to do with your 3-language tweet of yesterday, or was that old news I simply missed previously? 16:25
masak colomon: as of January, I have a new job. but that is not the Big Announcement. 16:26
oh well. at this time tomorrow, we'll know. :) 16:28
masak is curious whether clue #4 conforms to moritz_' guess 16:29
colomon I like the grammatical implication of "we'll know" -- that you might not know yet either. :) 16:30
masak :) 16:31
movie &
PerlJam masak: you're in communication beings made of light from the future and they have brought you a working, fast Perl 6 compiler ? 16:32
er, communication *with* beings made of light
PerlJam I know I thought that word the first time, but no clue why my fingers refused to type it. 16:32
oha rakudo: say [[\+] 1,3...9] 16:42
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1 4 9 16 25␤»
oha rakudo: say [[\,] 1,3...9]
p6eval rakudo : ( no output )
colomon > [\,] 1,3...9 16:45
===SORRY!===
maximum recursion depth exceeded
interesting bug
oha colomon: yup, that's whay i got too locally 16:49
either with [,]
perl6: say [[,] 1..3] 16:53
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
..rakudo : ( no output )
TimToady now.good should return an InstantGratification 18:11
sjohnson future.happiness is undefined :( 18:14
jasonmay rakudo: sub foo(%d) { %d.perl.say }; foo(1 => 2); 18:30
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '%d'; expected Associative but got Pair instead␤ in 'foo' at line 1:/tmp/5DV48PdWml␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/5DV48PdWml␤»
rokoteko maybe bit off topic, but this relates to perl 6. Im curious how is the performance comparison between parrot and perl 5 XS code? 18:32
jasonmay rakudo sub foo(:$bar) { $bar.perl.say }; foo bar => 'hello' 18:35
rokoteko ie. running XS from perl5 vs running some parrot like code from perl6
jasonmay whoops 18:35
rakudo: sub foo(:$bar) { $bar.perl.say }; foo bar => 'hello'
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«"hello"␤»
jasonmay rokoteko: I was wondering that too 18:35
I hope so, parrot is way cleaner looking than xs :)
TimToady rakudo: say ~(1,2 Z, 3,4) 18:47
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«2 4 2 4␤»
TimToady known bug?
colomon not to me 18:48
rakudo: say ~(1,2 Z~ 3,4)
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«13 24␤»
colomon something's wacky with the comma operator
TimToady perhaps not de-containerizing returned vars 18:49
colomon also got this today: 18:50
> [\,] 1,3...9
===SORRY!===
maximum recursion depth exceeded
TimToady rakudo: say ~((1,3),(2,4)) # but this is OK
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1 3 2 4␤»
TimToady rakudo: say [,] 1 18:51
colomon I've got to do some $work now, but if no one else has tackled this by this evening, I'll try to take a look.
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady rakudo: say [,] 1,2 18:52
p6eval rakudo : ( no output )
TimToady that's a simpler max recursion
probably the same one
might be same bug too
some kind of unexpected aliasing of returned variables 18:53
jnthn Decontainerizing just don't happen yet afaik. 19:03
TimToady rakudo: my $x = 2; my $y = 4; my $z = (1,$x Z, 3,$y); say $z.Str; 19:07
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«2 4 2 4␤»
TimToady rakudo: my $x = 2; my $y = 4; my $z = (1,$x Z, 3,$y); ($x,$y) = <boo gah>; say $z.Str; 19:08
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«boo gah boo gah␤»
Juerd Oh, wow. * is chr 42.
That's so awesome.
gfldex :) 19:09
TimToady
.oO(When you wish upon a {chr 42}...)
rjbs Juerd: Ha!
jnthn rakudo: say "When you wish upon a {chr 42}..."
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«When you wish upon a *...␤» 19:10
jnthn :D
jnthn wonders how deep the decontainerization goes...
TimToady rakudo: my $x = 1; my $y = 2; ($x Z, $y) = <boo gah>; say $x, $y 19:12
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/HXeYau_Vz7␤»
TimToady rakudo: my $x = 1; my $y = 2; ([,] $x,$y) = <boo gah>; say $x, $y 19:13
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«12␤»
jnthn e.g. in return [$x, [$y, $z]] # decontainerize all?
TimToady [...] decontainerizes anyway
jnthn oh, true
TimToady we need a shorter name for that :) 19:14
jnthn Is looking into infix:<,> and nested ones of those maybe enough?
TimToady maybe snaps, as in "snapshot", or "snap the umbilical cord"
I would guess that comma is special, yes 19:15
diakopter or "snapper"
TimToady commie snapper
jnthn snappy commie
TimToady immute that list! 19:17
diakopter In Soviet Russia, commas delimit you!
TimToady comma snapper
jnthn heh :) 19:19
jnthn figures it shouldn't be too hard to implement. Efficiently, otoh...
TimToady thing is, if we want to make ($x Z, $y) = equivalent to ($x, $y) = we will need to make Z pass along the lvalueness and not snap the list 19:20
likewise for [,]() =
jnthn Do we want that? :) 19:21
TimToady I could see (@foo Z, @bar) = ... 19:21
jnthn It feels want-ish (e.g. context flowing the rong way). Maybe...
TimToady er, sliced
I could see (@foo[*] Z, @bar[*]) = ... 19:22
jnthn Hm
Yeah, that could have its uses.
TimToady I could see (@foo[^10] Z, @bar[^10]) = ...
jnthn Well, we already pass what-to-do flags along to Z
&zipwith
Oh, maybe we do anyway...
TimToady this particular decision could be made at compile time, actually 19:23
jnthn Yes.
TimToady lzipwith :)
people will find lreduce confusing though :)
jnthn Feels like the take vs take-rw style thing again. 19:24
colomon particularly [\,]
TimToady I don't think there's an ltriangle
jnthn Wonder if they're related enough issues for a common solution. (Don't ahve one to hand to suggest though...)
TimToady probably
TimToady I meant they'd find lreduce confusing because they'll take it as lfold 19:25
the semantics are probably meaningful though
TimToady maybe reduce-lv and zipwith-lv 19:26
jnthn Ah, OK.
Latvian reduce? :)
TimToady those aren't commies anymore
well, maybe some of 'em still are 19:27
jnthn Come to YAPC::EU next year and find out! ;)
TimToady the selection was Riga'd 19:28
TimToady rakudo: (rand < .5 ?? my $x !! my $y) = ord '*'; say "$x $y" 19:31
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«42 Any()␤»
TimToady there's a spot where even Perl 5 departs from tradition to propagate lvaluehood 19:32
sorear good * #perl6 19:40
sorear TimToady: hi 19:41
A.pm: my module A; class X {} 19:42
B.pm: my module B; use A; class A::X::Y {}
test.pl: use A; use B; A::X::Y.new;
TimToady: does this work? why or why not?
dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ics_tablet 19:55
TimToady sorear: will need to think about it, but have a headache at the moment, so that's hard :) 20:02
sjohnson hugme: give TimToady a brain massage 20:06
dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ics_tablet 20:11
tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ics_tablet 20:22
monty helo how can i execute perl6 here pls? 21:02
phenny monty: 11 Nov 20:11Z <benoitc> tell monty I miss him
monty who misses me?! :) 21:03
moritz_ rakudo. say 'hello monty' 21:04
rakudo: say 'hello monty'
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello monty␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say join ', ', 'hello monty' xx 3
monty oh thanks got it :)
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello monty, hello monty, hello monty␤» 21:04
sjohnson heh
rakudo: say join ', ' => 'hello monty' xx 3
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«␤»
sjohnson no => comma eh
ah well, can't have 'em all!
moritz_ => is not a comma in Perl 6 21:04
sjohnson yeah, i figured :/ 21:05
Tene sjohnson: If you want a comma, just use the comma. We already have one, no need for another. ;) 21:07
sjohnson nice on the eyes tho 21:13
not saying ',',
Camel Book even said so!!!
:-)
jnthn ",", is a little nicer on the eyes.
sjohnson hugs his perl book
jnthn imho
sjohnson chr(44), 21:14
colomon errr... what's happening with say join ', ' => 'hello monty' xx 3 ? 21:15
TimToady you're feeding join a single argument and a null list 21:16
colomon rakudo: say join ', ' => ('hello monty' xx 3)
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«␤»
colomon rakudo: say ', ' => ('hello monty' xx 3)
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«, hello monty hello monty hello monty␤»
colomon ah
sjohnson i broke the sacred perl6 rule 21:17
rule: don't assume perl5 stuff works
sjohnson slaps himself on the wrist
TimToady except when it does
remember also that at least one of the authors of the camel book was an idiot :) 21:18
sjohnson i look forward to the day when i'll use that book as a doorstop 21:19
butterfly book should come out then
TimToady $.nap-state = True; 21:25
PerlJam rakudo: say join ', ' <== 'hello monty' xx 3 # how about this one sjohnson ? :-) 21:26
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello montyhello montyhello monty␤»
PerlJam rakudo: say 'hello monty' xx 3 ==> join ', ' # or this?
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello montyhello montyhello monty␤»
jnthn rakudo: 'hello monty' xx 3 ==> join ', ' ==> say
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello monty, hello monty, hello monty␤» 21:27
PerlJam Hmm.
monty My name is getting used a lot here.. common people.. use another name :P
sjohnson PerlJam: i like the way you think
there is more way to do it, just not the p5 way !
PerlJam looks at his REPL and then looks at p6eval's output 21:28
oh! I see.
sjohnson Perl6Jam 21:29
PerlJam I guess I'm just not smart enough to use the REPL without mildly confusing myself :)
PerlJam But on the plus side, I've got an idea I like for tomorrow's advent post 21:32
sjohnson does it have anything to do with the arrow => comma thingy? 21:34
PerlJam there is no arrow comma thingy :)
but it does have to do with the feed operators <== ==> 21:35
:-)
jnthn om nom nom
oh, not that kind of feed...
Though I guess they kinda do nom a list.
sjohnson heh 21:36
dalek : 34bce8a | duff++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/schedule:
add some intent for Dec 10
 22:01
sorear good * #perl6 22:05
dukeleto sorear: jolly good day, fine sir 22:26
jnthn: how is your nom hacking?
jnthn: i read your slides and some blog posts, and your code makes a lot more sense to me now :)
jnthn: those were some fantastic slides from OSDC.fr
sorear hello whiteknight 22:52
whiteknight hello sorear 22:53

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