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Set by moritz_ on 28 December 2010.
flussence merry arbitrary timezone&Interval(), * 00:00
lue happy new year to UTC ! 00:01
colomon \o/ 00:06
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lue What doesn't help my heightened fascination with Time today is the all-day (more like 2-day actually) marathon of Doctor Who on BBC America 00:18
itz its all about "amy's crack" 00:23
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lue afk 00:30
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moritz_ wishes everybody attached to the Gregorian calendar a happy new year 00:50
itz recommends listening to "Can - Monster Movie - Yoo Doo Right" 00:51
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colomon is even willing to wish people not attached to the Gregorian calendar a happy new year, no matter when it starts in their opinion... 01:02
moritz_: IO::Prompter (the colomon version) almost sort of works now. ;) 01:03
sorear a new year starts at every instant. 01:04
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dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ook_tablet 02:21
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dalek ecza: 9f058da | sorear++ | / (3 files):
[v6] Add a few unit tests for CgOp
ecza: 7336565 | sorear++ | v6n/cgop.t:
[v6] Actually add cgop.t
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dalek ecza: 3349c98 | sorear++ | v6n/ (2 files):
[v6] Translate Body and Unit
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jasonmay yay, just wrote a working MUD with my baby perl6 :D 03:22
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flussence nice! 03:22
pmurias sorear: what's an xid? 03:23
lichtkind good night
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lichtkind colomon: thanks, to me new year is in spring, i think iranian zoroasterian got it right :) 03:24
jasonmay gist.github.com/761532 03:27
pmurias lichtkind: you have a new year's eve party in spring?
lichtkind pmurias: some sort of :) even if im the only one celebrating :) 03:31
pmurias dislikes all holiday celebration 03:32
lichtkind understand, its mor a joyous recognition what is going on :)
pmurias and time passing away is not something i'm very happy about 03:36
lichtkind pmurias: maybe if you render yourself mortal, in any other case life is just a free seek of joy 03:37
pmurias you believe you are immortal? 03:38
lichtkind pmurias: depends you definition of "believe" :)
i would call it recognize 03:39
pmurias you recognize you are immortal?
lichtkind yes
which doesnt protect from being bored or sad :) 03:41
pmurias relises #perl6 is not a good place to discuss ocult stuff 03:42
* occult 03:43
lichtkind pmurias: you mean realize? occult is as far as i know a certain knoweldge and practices, which is very loosly related to things discussed 03:44
my point was just enjoy life and don't worr its as acult as the well know song: don't worry be happy <whistle> 03:46
araujo lichtkind, you are not immortal , life is 03:47
flussence according to a few trolls, we're already a cult :)
lichtkind cult of the living camel :)
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gfldex to believe that a camel can turn into a butterfly you need a cult proper 03:56
lichtkind good night 04:07
pmurias good night
lichtkind :)
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lue hello #perl6 and happy new year to UTC-4 \o/ [if I'm not mistaken] 04:14
.oO( does anyone live in UTC(-3..-1), besides Iceland? )
lue Parts of Santa's workshop and a few platoons of Tux's army, I suppose. 04:20
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araujo happy new year UTC-4:30 ! 04:35
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slavik1 Happy New Year! 05:00
TimToady HNY, EST. 05:01
lue Happy new year UTC-5
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x19290 Hello. 05:31
I implemented and tested a class called FD. The code is
FD is implemented with `has-a' relationship, so to get real file descriptor,
I must call FD.descriptor() method.
Can I rewrite the code with `is-a' relationship? 05:32
I mean Can I say `class FD is Int ...?'.
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x19290 Happy New Year UTC+9 05:38
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lue Happy new Year UTC-6! afk 06:03
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yarrack_logging #In Memory of Hans Reiser# We will always remember and cherish you. Your acts of selflessness will be passed down from generation to generation. The lies that dishonor your name will be vanquished. You were a true patriot and a lover of all men, all races, all religions. 07:04
coldhead hans is dead? 07:09
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sorear good * #perl6 07:37
x19290: I do not beleive so 07:39
phenny: tell pmurias an xid is the second element of an Xref object 07:40
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when pmurias is around.
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TimToady happy new year from pst 08:01
VXZ Ditto 08:02
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sjohnson :3 09:08
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sorear out 10:49
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moritz_ good morning zebras 11:08
rindolf Hi moritz_ 11:09
moritz_: I packaged rakudo-2010.12 for Mandriva Cooker.
wagnerf hi everyone, i'm trying to have a custom constructor for a class with some arguments
moritz_ rindolf: great 11:10
wagnerf but perl complains about "not enough positional parameters"
moritz_ wagnerf: please show some code
wagnerf scsys.co.uk:8002/77322
i'm a bit new to perl6 so maybe i'm doing something wrong
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moritz_ method new($capacity) { self.bless(*, :$capacity, whites => 0, blacks => 0) ; } 11:11
wagnerf: see perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/object-c...ation.html 11:12
wagnerf ok, I effectively saw something like that
is there no way to achieve it with BUILD ? 11:13
in any case, thanks for the hint 11:14
moritz_ no. BUILD Is called (indirectly) by new, and new's signature is causing that error
wagnerf ok 11:15
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moritz_ anybody knows where the github bug tracker is? 11:48
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wagnerf is there an easy way to do a deep copy of an object in perl 6 ? 11:56
moritz_ not really
the problem is that deep cloning is user specific
for example if you had a singleton object 11:57
and there was a low-level cloning primitive
that would break the assumptions of the singleton class
wagnerf well, for sure you need to be carefull with deep copy 11:58
but for many cases dclone was quite nice for me
ok, anyway, let's go with a copy constructor then 11:59
moritz_ copy constructor sounds so C++ :-) 12:01
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pmurias sorear: what's an Xref object? 13:07
phenny pmurias: 07:40Z <sorear> tell pmurias an xid is the second element of an Xref object
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apeiron hey all. I was wondering if someone could look over github.com/apeiron/perlfaq/commit/...1b47fd8b3f before I send a pull request. I'd like to clarify the perlfaq entries covering perl6 to more accurately reflect current reality. 13:48
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moritz_ takes a look 13:57
apeiron: the first answer seems to confuse the compiler ("Rakudo") and the distribution ("Rakudo Star") a bit 13:59
apeiron hmm, fair. 14:00
Axius rakudo: say my $fv = "Hello", say $fv
p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«Hello␤HelloBool::True␤»
simon does anyone have an example parser written with perl6 rules? one that buildan AST.
moritz_ simon: for example the JSON modules 14:01
simon: see github.com/moritz/json/ Grammar.pm and Actions.pm
apeiron moritz_, I'll update it later today, and will post an updated commit URL. 14:02
moritz_ apeiron: "most developers writing Perl 5 have no intentions of switching to Perl 6 14:03
is that true?
apeiron IME
moritz_ do you have data for that?
simon moritz_, thanks!
apeiron hm, wonder if the perl survey covers it?
moritz_ I'd like a more neutral formulation, like being a perl 5 developer doesn't imply you want to change to Perl 6 at some point 14:04
"That said, Perl 6 has proven to be a fascinating research project for those doing Perl 5 development,
that's true, but I'd like to point out that for the PErl 6 folks it's not only a fascinating research project 14:05
colomon It makes it sound a bit like Perl 6 is strictly a research project designed to improve Perl 5.
... what moritz_++ said.
apeiron hmm
moritz_ "As Perl 6 is a reinvention of Perl 5"
I'd just say "Perl" here, not "Perl 5" 14:06
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apeiron hmm 14:06
all right.
moritz_ apeiron++ # thanks for asking and caring
apeiron of course.
I do not want to start more drama. 14:07
moritz_++ colomon++ # helping in that effort
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pmurias apeiron: re switching to Perl 6 doesn't that depend on how good Perl 6 turns out to be? 14:07
apeiron personally has too much invested in p5 14:08
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pmurias apeiron: you have a lot of existing p5 code? 14:14
apeiron yes
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redicaps perl6: say $_ for ^2; 15:38
p6eval rakudo f99d08: ( no output )
..pugs: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
..niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unhandled statement modifier for at /tmp/ZA_9XnQMAd line 1:␤------> say $_ for ^2⏏;␤Check failed␤»
redicaps Hi perl6, where can I find the description about this ^? 15:39
moritz_ which part of "this"
pmurias ^2> 15:40
moritz_ rakudo works locally here
dunno why it fails on the server
jasonmay I do perl5 for a living, I think it would be impossible for me to completely forsake it
redicaps ^
jasonmay but as perl6 improved I'm going to continue to write more and more cool things in it
redicaps ^ in "for ^2 "
jasonmay improves*
moritz_ redicaps: it's in S03 15:41
redicaps moritz_: Thanks
moritz_ ^$n is just a range from 0 up to (but exluding) $n
rakudo: say (^6).perl
p6eval rakudo f99d08: ( no output )
moritz_ there's something horribly wrong on p6eval
jasonmay y2k11 bug! 15:42
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redicaps right, ^ works locally on my computer 15:42
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dalek kudo: b570a2c | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
bump PARROT_REVISION for testing
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dalek ecza: 9697d6c | pmurias++ | cl-backend/ (2 files):
[cl-backend] nam is turned into lisp and we use macros to handle the

changed the test file to say "Hello World"
pmurias sorear: what does the const opcode do? 15:55
moritz_ rakudo: say $_ for ^2 16:03
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
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dalek ecza: d5ec680 | pmurias++ | cl-backend/backend.lisp:
[cl-backend] say "Hello World" works
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pmurias has achived his first common lisp niecza milestone ;) 16:22
TimToady how hard can the rest be? :) 16:23
colomon Er, "common lisp niecza milestone"? What are you trying to do? 16:25
colomon is watching GameDay and struggling with IO::Prompter
TimToady he's adding a clisp emitter
colomon \o/ 16:28
that sounds very cool.
TimToady: Damian has an idiom here.... {?/<yes>/}
He seems to think this defines a sub which matches one argument to <yes> and then converts the match/no-match to a Bool. 16:29
It seems to fair very poorly in current Rakudo.
TimToady how is the block used? 16:30
colomon I like the looks of it, but I don't understand any reason it should actually work in p6.
$extractor = {?/<yes>/}; $retval = $extractor($input)
moritz_ it's just a closure that returns True if its argument contains the string 'yes', and False otherwise 16:31
TimToady it oughta work, but I'm not sure // is strong enough to create a $_ parameter in a bare closure
moritz_ just a boolified Match
TimToady (in rakudo)
colomon I understand that's what it wants to be, but is it supposed to work?
rakudo: $extractor = {?/<yes>/}; say $extractor("no way") 16:32
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$extractor' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/SfqlnNSB4p:22)␤»
colomon rakudo: my $extractor = {?/<yes>/}; say $extractor("no way")
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in 'Regex::Bool' at line 6118:CORE.setting␤ in 'prefix:<?>' at line 468:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/Bz0RWoe_mD␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Bz0RWoe_mD␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $e = { ?/<yes>/ }; say $e('asyesfll'); say $e('no')
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in 'Regex::Bool' at line 6118:CORE.setting␤ in 'prefix:<?>' at line 468:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/j1xoPSOUsk␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/j1xoPSOUsk␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $e = -> $_ { ?/<yes>/ }; say $e('asyesfll'); say $e('no')
colomon yeah, that's the error I'm getting
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in 'Regex::Bool' at line 6118:CORE.setting␤ in 'prefix:<?>' at line 468:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/jvsLQr4vsk␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/jvsLQr4vsk␤»
moritz_ seems that $_ is not set 16:33
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masak ahoy, zebras! 16:33
moritz_ rakudo: my $e = -> $_ { ?m/<yes>/ }; say $e('asyesfll'); say $e('no')
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«Method 'yes' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/RPugJq_Lka␤ in 'Cool::match' at line 2588:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/RPugJq_Lka␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/RPugJq_Lka␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $e = -> $_ { ?m/yes/ }; say $e('asyesfll'); say $e('no')
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤Bool::False␤»
colomon rakudo: my $e = { ?m/yes/ }; say $e('asyesfll'); say $e('no') 16:34
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤Bool::False␤»
colomon well, that's an easy enough fix
moritz_ well, you'll probably need <&yes> or some such 16:35
colomon oooo, think that will work?
I wasn't able to figure out how to use the regexes he defined, so I've just been working around that.
\o/ 16:36
moritz_ if you have a 'my regex yes { ... }', then <&yes> works
colomon moritz_++ # this is why I wanted his help. ;)
that will clean things up a bunch. 16:37
moritz_ note that it doesn't capture by default
no tests :(
colomon for IO::Prompter? nope.
moritz_ rakudo: say 3.not 16:38
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
masak rakudo: class A { has $.val }; class B is A { has $.val }; my $b = B.new(A{ :val("A") }); say "alive"
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«flattened parameters must be a hash or array␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/DYw5OTlNCI␤»
masak this should work, no?
I think it even used to...
alpha: class A { has $.val }; class B is A { has $.val }; my $b = B.new(A{ :val("A") }); say "alive" 16:39
p6eval alpha : OUTPUT«alive␤»
moritz_ note that method true { ! $!failed } should likely be method Bool { ... }
masak alpha: class A { has $.val }; class B is A { has $.val }; my $b = B.new(A{ :val("A") }); say $b.val
p6eval alpha : OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
masak alpha: class A { has $.val }; class B is A { has $.val }; my $b = B.new(A{ :val("A") }); say $b.A::val
p6eval alpha : OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
masak submits rakudobug
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colomon has just pushed an update to IO::Prompter which has a lot of the functionality working in current Rakudo. 16:47
masak is happy to see colomon working on TheDamian's published module 16:48
moritz_ masak: fwiw S12-construction/new.t contain tests for the Class{...} syntax in arguments to .new
colomon I'm planning on adding it to the ecosystem later today.
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masak moritz_: yes, I said as much in the ticket. 16:48
moritz_ great 16:49
I haven't actually read it :-)
masak I don't blame you, it's very new :)
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masak is also happy to see apeiron++ stop by 16:50
apeiron masak, hey :) If you have any additional input to the github URL above, I'd be glad to incporate it. 16:51
masak I'll give it a read.
apeiron masak++ # thanks
jasonmay masak: see this? gist.github.com/761532 16:52
colomon moritz_, masak: If you guys have any ideas about how to set up tests for IO::Prompter, I'm all ears.
masak apeiron: "In short, Perl 4 is the past, Perl 5 is the present, and Perl 6 is [the future]->[a sibling of Perl 5, incompatible but related and relevant]." 16:53
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masak apeiron: just want to make you aware that that edit destroys a nice triplet of three-things-of-the-same-category. 16:53
mak__ Hi
phenny mak__: 08 Aug 19:20Z <moritz_> tell mak__ www.presentingperl.org/yn2010/not-quite-perl/ # a wee bit older, but should still apply
apeiron hmm
masak apeiron: I agree that describing Perl 6 as "the future" is not something neither of us wants.
apeiron nod 16:54
masak apeiron: fivers because they like Perl 5 and don't want to switch, sixers because they believe Perl 6 is here already.
apeiron right.
masak but perhaps the sentence needs one more push away from its original phrasing.
mak__ github.com/sorear/niecza/blob/mast...racing.pod
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apeiron Something more along the lines of language families? 16:54
mak__ is there any way this can be done in rakudo?
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masak jasonmay: I see it, yes. what am I looking at? 16:55
moritz_ colomon: the verification stuff can easily be tested by exporting the routines to a special tag
masak jasonmay: ooh, the MUD!?
moritz_ like is export <test>
masak jasonmay++
colomon is export <test>? Does that work now?
moritz_ I think so
masak jasonmay: you need to throw this up on github like, right now! :)
mak__ Can trace calls be done in rakudo?
jasonmay yep! I kind of cheated using github.com/jasonmay/io-multiplex-intermediary for all the socket logic
masak jasonmay: if you don't, I will.
moritz_ anotehr idea. write a fakeIO class that suports .print and .get, 16:56
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jasonmay masak: I'm going to factor it out a bit first 16:56
masak jasonmay: sure, just don't forget to push it.
moritz_ and pass instances as :in and :out to the prompt function
that's the most black-boxy thing you can do without crazy IO stuff 16:57
colomon That's one heck of a good start, IMO.
masak apeiron: I know TimToady not-so-secretly believes that Perl 6 will eventually outdate Perl 5. but it may not be worth mentioning in the FAQ.
apeiron: I dislike the term "research project" almost to the point of wanting you to change it. almost. :) 16:58
apeiron: it sounds a bit like we don't use Perl 6 for stuff.
apeiron masak, others have pointed out it's a bit onesided and it'll be fixed.
masak good.
moritz_ backlogging considered harmful :-)
masak :P
TimToady only if it's based on goto 16:59
masak as moritz_ pointed out, Rakudo Star is a distribution, not the implementation.
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moritz_ colomon: once there are tests I'd like to replace the methods in the Result class with delegation 16:59
simon g/la 5 17:00
colomon moritz_++
masak apeiron: "Neither one is mutually exclusive with the other" -- I'm not a native speaker, but... this is the first time I've seen "mutually exclusive with" as a construction.
apeiron 348k results on google. 17:01
masak I retract my objection, then.
simon I noticed that my vim doesn't have perl6 highlighting. is there a syntax file that's not distributed yet? 17:02
masak apeiron: but I'm unsure what that final sentence is trying to say.
TimToady I'd say "The two are not mutually exclusive"
flussence simon: vim-perl on github has one
and vim 7.3, for that matter
simon flussence, thanks.
mak__ Is there syntax highlighting for emacs?
masak apeiron: *of course* in a sense, Perl 6 is meant to be a "replacement" for Perl 5, in the sense that it's not built to be less powerful or worse.
moritz_ github.com/petdance/vim-perl
masak apeiron: then again, that might be phrasing it too aggressively. 17:03
moritz_ too slow
apeiron masak, hmm. How about "The two are complimentary, not mutually exclusive." ?
(or complementary, whichever one is right :)
masak apeiron: "complEmentary"
TimToady comple
apeiron thanks. 17:04
masak apeiron: yes, then I see better what you want to say.
apeiron :D
masak apeiron: maybe even add that the two communities benefit from each other through collaboration and friendly competition.
apeiron: by the way, since September my blog is a p5-p6 hybrid :) 17:05
apeiron masak, I mentioned that in one place with Moose; do you think it bears mentioning further?
masak apeiron: well, I'm talking about community relations more than module ideas. I don't know if it bears re-mentioning. 17:06
apeiron masak, hmm. Personally I see the two as results of one another, but I'll be explicit. :)
masak indeed. they are related and affect each other. 17:07
colomon doh! yes | no prompt now accepts input, but is always Bool::True.
masak add more tests! :)
pmurias masak: aren't the Perl 5 and Perl 6 communities largely overlapping 17:08
masak pmurias: I don't know.
apeiron pmurias, the perl5 devs I associate with most are dedicated to perl5.
masak pmurias: I get the feeling that people are mostly in one community, but have visited both. 17:09
TimToady many Perl 6 devs are Perl 5 users, but not Perl 5 devs
masak pmurias: I know the more I get involved with Perl 6, the more I learn about Perl 5 and get to respect the implementation, the CPAN modules, and the people of Perl 5.
apeiron hmm, perhaps I should clarify. When I say "perl5 devs" I mean "people writing perl5 code", not "people working on perl5 as in what you check out from perl.git" 17:10
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TimToady I mean the latter 17:10
could be a point of confusion
apeiron indeed, thus the clarification. :)
TimToady then what to you call the developers of Perl 5? 17:11
masak rakudo: class Point[$of] { method Str { "Point of $of } }; say Point["confusion"].new
TimToady *do
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed package declaration at line 22, near "[$of] { me"␤»
masak rakudo: role Point[$of] { method Str { "Point of $of } }; say Point["confusion"].new
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
masak rakudo: role Point[$of] { method Str { "Point of $of" } }; say Point["confusion"].new
moritz_ try std
p6eval rakudo b570a2: OUTPUT«Point of confusion␤»
masak \o/
sorry about the confusion :) 17:12
apeiron "porters"
mak__ is there any way to do call tracing in rakudo? 17:16
masak apeiron: if there was a Perl 6 implementation with a decent p5-backcompat mode, p5-comparable speed, and access to CPAN, would you consider switching to Perl 6?
apeiron Tough question.
masak it's very hypothetical, I know.
apeiron I'm not sure if I should consider what you're saying as "if there was a Perl6 with the maturity of p5 and compatibility with it, would you consider switching?" 17:18
masak hm... maybe, but I can see a Perl 6 impl being *mature* without having those three things I listed. 17:19
apeiron Sure.
masak but yes, enough compatibility to not miss out form the great things of p5.
17:20 glow joined
apeiron That seems like "if there was something that was the best of both worlds, would you consider it?" 17:20
masak :)
well, we're not a two-pronged fork because we think it's *fun*. 17:21
mak__ problem with building rakudo
masak we're a two-pronged fork because we can't have the things we want in Perl 6 and the maturity of Perl 5 at this point in time. but we're building towards it.
mak__ build hangs after reaching src/gen/core.pm > src/gen/core.pir
masak mak__: how much RAM do you have? 17:22
mak__: likely massive swapping, not hanging.
mak__ 256mb
masak o.O
mak__: ^C
mak__ hmmm ok
masak mak__: step two: get more RAM...
mak__ :)
or I think I will work on niecza 17:23
masak that's an option as well. :)
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mak__ or patch rakudo 17:23
the only thing is i don't how to solve that problem
masak it's probably not a one-patch problem...
mak__ oh
masak it's more of a design issue. 17:24
mak__ its basically putting that into one file
masak aye.
and there are clever people here aware of that problem.
don't want to discourage you, but...
mak__ can't that be broken up? I sure that would have thought about... or may im just you know ... saying
masak mak__: thing is, there are important reasons for keeping it in one file. 17:25
mak__ ok
masak mak__: specifically, that's how to get the scoping right.
but yes, it's an issue, especially as the setting grows.