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Set by moritz_ on 28 December 2010.
jnthn Ah, OK. 00:00
00:00 kst joined
jnthn Oh yeah 00:00
It's aobu thte op
...about the...
masak nod
jnthn Not $*LEFTSIGIL
So yes, it is always item assignment. :)
masak I should use or= if I want list assignment.
rakudo: my @a; @a or= 1, 2, 3, 4; say @a.perl 00:01
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
masak submits rakudobug
:)
jnthn apart from...yeah. :P
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masak either it works, and I win. or I can submit a bug from it, and I win. I like this game. :P 00:01
jnthn Then I write a patch and I win. :P 00:02
Oh, wait, then you still win 'cus it's fixed...darn. :)
masak \o/
everyone wins.
jnthn Actually, the RT queue loses a ticket.
masak the game is terribly rigged in everyone's favour.
snarkyboojum hello #perl6 from linux.conf.au in sweltering brisbane, australia :) 00:05
jnthn o/
masak snarkyboojum: are we on a projector screen? :) 00:06
snarkyboojum masak: nope :)
masak awww :)
snarkyboojum heh
jnthn won't tell his really terrible joke about Australian beer then ;)
masak are we in a position to demand to be put on a projector screen?
snarkyboojum I stood in line for coffee with Linus yesterday! </groupie_comments> 00:07
masak: heh - nope
masak omg Linus?
snarkyboojum: awww :)
snarkyboojum zomg the Real Linus
sjohnson snarkyboojum: for real? did you say hi?
snarkyboojum sjohnson: nope.. just tried not to stare, agog :P
and vint cerf was here yesterday too, so some interesting people around! 00:08
rindolf Hi snarkyboojum
snarkyboojum rindolf: hello!
rindolf snarkyboojum: here it's kinda cold.
snarkyboojum: and it was cloudy today.
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snarkyboojum rindolf: where are you again? 00:09
rindolf snarkyboojum: Israel. 00:10
snarkyboojum: Tel Aviv.
masak it's between Email Aviv and Fax Aviv.
rindolf Heh. 00:11
masak sorry, that was a phony joke.
rindolf en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell
flussence
.oO( whee. another I-almost-dumped-my-paste-buffer-into-irssi panic moment )
 00:13
TimToady set the limit to one line, and it always catches any paste wit a newline 00:14
*with
jnthn pmichaud: In Cursor, it looks to me like $!from and $!pos becoming (native) int attrs rather than PMCs would save a bunch of boxing. Maybe $!target being a native string attr would help too. Opinions welcome. :) 00:15
TimToady flussence: paste_verify_line_count = 1
flussence that helped :) # TimToady++
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TimToady did you hear the phony joke about the phone jack? 00:17
flussence that one doesn't ring a bell, and my name's not jack
jnthn TimToady: No, you should tel it... :P
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sjohnson i wouldn't mind saying hi to mr torvalds 00:20
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jnthn pmichaud: Also when Match moves over to being a 6model object (didn't do that yet...) looks like we may save a couple of PMCs per match object for storing the position info too. 00:26
Hmm. Match objects store a reference back to the cursor that matched them too. 00:30
masak rakudo: class A { method new { self.bless(*) } }; class B is A { has $.c is rw; method new { my $obj = callsame; say $obj.WHAT; $obj.c = 42; return $obj } }; say B.new.c
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«B()␤Null PMC access in getprop()␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in 'B::new' at line 22:/tmp/0us_dhCy_G␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/0us_dhCy_G␤»
masak submits rakudobug
it says it's a B, but I suspect it ain't.
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jnthn Hm. It should be... 00:31
masak the error occurs when trying to assign to $.c, which is B-specific.
jnthn yeah... 00:32
00:11 < jnthn> Somebody should fix objects. :P 00:33
masak :)
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jnthn pmichaud: If we hit !cursor_pass, do we need @!bstack etc any more? If not, and given we keep the cursor around in the match object, we may be able to get some memory saving there too. 00:35
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jnthn Enough for today. Nearly got native attrs nailedish. Need that, some straightforward roles implementation and the primitive to build mix-ins atop of, then it's Rakudo on 6model time. 00:45
'night o/ 00:46
bpa rakudo: (1,2 X 1,2).perl.say; (1,2 X 1,2).pick(1).perl.say 00:48
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«((1, 1), (1, 2), (2, 1), (2, 2))␤2␤»
bpa Why doesn't the second produce a pair?
or tuple, not sure the proper word 00:49
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bpa is there a way to prevent the flattening? 00:51
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bpa rakudo: @a=((1,1),(2,2)); @a.say 00:58
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '@a' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/ejYQSj2aKT:22)␤»
bpa rakudo: my @a=((1,1),(2,2)); @a.say 00:59
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«1122␤»
bpa rakudo: my @a=((1,1),(2,2)); @a.perl.say 01:00
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«[1, 1, 2, 2]␤»
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thundergnat rakudo: (1,2 X=> 1,2).pick(1).perl.say 01:06
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«2 => 1␤»
thundergnat bpa: ^^ 01:07
bpa thundergnat: thank you 01:08
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TimToady yay, 2**8 rosettacodes now :) 01:28
thundergnat: probably more efficient to define powers_of as 1,[\*] $radix xx * 01:31
since ** Int does repeated multiplication, iiuc 01:32
thundergnat TimToady: ok.
TimToady using [\*] doesn't remultiply all the lower values 01:33
thundergnat TimToady: edited with your suggestion. 01:38
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colomon wonder if that's better or worse than 1, * * $radix ... * 01:59
dang, that's too fast! 02:06
;)
TimToady yeah, doesn't really matter much one way or the other, at least until we get real Ints 02:09
er... 02:10
colomon huh.
actually, if you implement the two versions using Rat / Num math, the sequence version is drastically faster.
colomon has just been writing benchmarks.
I presume Int versions would be the same (but they outgrow current Ints too fast to benchmark). 02:14
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colomon woah, some sort of serious math bug here. :( 02:16
rakudo: say 1.015 ** 133 02:20
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«7.2440863609305␤»
colomon rakudo: say 1.015 ** 134
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
sjohnson nanny
NaN == nani in Japanese 02:21
colomon oh, ick. 02:22
rakudo: say 1.015.nude
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«203200␤»
colomon rakudo: say 1.015.nude.perl
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«(203, 200)␤»
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colomon bother. 02:23
rakudo: say 203 ** 134
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
diakopter falls out of his standing desk chair 02:28
rakudo: say 203 ** 130
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«9.42941888064624e+299␤»
diakopter rakudo: say 203 ** 131
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«1.91417203277119e+302␤» 02:29
diakopter rakudo: say 203 ** 133
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«7.88811152984678e+306␤»
colomon I'm fixing Rat ** now.
stupid slow compiles 02:31
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colomon and the first try fails. :\ 02:37
guess I should stop and write tests first anyway.
rakudo: say 1.015.Num ** 200 02:39
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«19.6430286394751␤» 02:40
colomon ack 02:43
I tested 203 ** 134, which of course is going to be Inf no matter what I do. 02:44
so actually my patch worked.
or at least, power.t passes even with my new test. :) 02:46
so now, git stash, make, retest, git stash apply, etc.
oh, woah, major Test.pm bug? 02:50
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colomon is not having a good numeric night 02:50
rakudo: use Test; is_approx(NaN, 10, "NaN is pretty close to 10"); 02:51
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«ok 1 - NaN is pretty close to 10␤»
colomon gack.
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colomon errr... anyone out there know what the official Test.pm of Rakudo is? or where it lives? 02:54
I see two, Test.pm and t/spec/packages/Test.pm 02:55
sorear good * #perl6 03:01
colomon \o
sorear colomon: the one in t/spec is Pugs', I'm prettty sure
colomon agreed.
or at least, it's not what Rakudo is using, I don't think. 03:02
though to be fair, my changes to ./Test.pm don't seem to be reflected in my test results. :\
sorear did you remember to update ./Test.pir?
colomon it's recompiling automatically. 03:03
any more sanity checking suggestions? I've stuck says in both versions of is_approx, and neither message is printing out when I call is_approx.... 03:06
rakudo: say NaN !~~ NaN 03:09
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
colomon rakudo: say 10 !~~ NaN
p6eval rakudo 188755: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
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sorear wonders if jnthn will succeed in making his work irrelevant soon 03:26
colomon niecza irrelevant? I doubt it greatly. 03:29
diakopter sorear: all the recent work is nqp on parrot... 03:31
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diakopter intends to get back to nqpclr regexes Real Soon Now 03:36
^Mike\b builds rakudo :o 03:37
Is there a CPAN for Perl6 yet? 03:41
diakopter not per se 03:42
some of the programs at modules.perl6.org/ work with various versions/builds/editions of various implementations of Perl 6 03:43
dalek ast: 4921660 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-num/power.t:
Make sure 1.015 ** 200 is correct.
 03:51
colomon errr, that push breaks the spectest for Rakudo. I'm currently doing a full spectest before pushing the patch to fix it.
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dalek kudo: dff7e21 | colomon++ | src/core/Rat.pm:
Change Rat infix:<**> to prevent spurious overflows.
 04:32
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sorear TimToady: sub foo() { BEGIN { &?ROUTINE() }; say "hi" } # What should this do? 07:09
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sorear out 07:13
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TimToady sorear: it should certainly fail, since foo's body is not yet defined when it is called 07:29
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moritz_ good morning 08:20
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moritz_ colomon: re Test.pm changes, if you have *installed* rakudo, the installed Test.{pm,pir} might accidentally take precedence over the ./Test.p{m,ir} 08:40
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jnthn morning, #perl6 09:29
moritz_ mornin' jnthn 09:33
jnthn moritz_: How's things? :) 09:34
moritz_ jnthn: first night at home with the small monster... less sleep than I am used to :-) 09:39
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jnthn :-) 09:42
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dalek kudo: d6cfc94 | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
[docs] update ChangeLog
 09:54
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jnthn ++ IPv6 release 10:05
IPv6 *support* ?
moritz_ support, yes 10:07
moritz_ braindead 10:08
jnthn Aww. :)
moritz_ fixes
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dalek kudo: d52af1a | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
[docs] braino, moritz--, jnthn++
 10:11
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jnthn masak: Afternoon. o/ 10:53
masak :)
mathw Morning 10:54
masak mroing in ar! :)
moritz_ good now everybody 10:56
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colomon moritz_++ 12:14
colomon is more than a little scared of the spectest run he just started. 12:29
flussence was poking around in RT and noticed #64132 is fixed, if anyone wants to close it 12:30
jnthn colomon: What's the fear? :)
moritz_ flussence: closing, thanks
colomon jnthn: until five minutes ago, is_approx allowed NaN as a valid answer for any approximation. 12:31
rakudo: use Test; is_approx(NaN, 10, "NaN is approximately 10, right?"); 12:32
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«ok 1 - NaN is approximately 10, right?␤»
dalek kudo: 00f5b48 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Compiler.pir:
new year is calling, water is fine over here...
 12:33
tadzik rakudo: say 10 ~~ NaN 12:36
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
flussence rakudo: use Test; is_approx(NaN, 'BaNaNa'/2) 12:37
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
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takadonet morning all 13:00
masak takadonet: \o 13:01
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colomon o/ 13:03
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JimmyZ evening all 13:05
stifynsemons good morning :-) 13:06
tadzik good afternoon :) 13:07
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masak good daytime, JimmyZ. 13:08
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JimmyZ masak, good atfernoon 13:09
colomon oh, hey, only one new test failure from fixing is_approx.
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colomon rakudo: say 2i.exp(-3.14) 13:15
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«NaN + NaNi␤»
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colomon rakudo: say 2.exp(-3.14) 13:18
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«9.8596␤»
flussence rakudo: say e ** (i * pi) + 1
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«0 + 1.22464679914735e-16i␤»
flussence python screws that one up too, fwiw
colomon screws what up?
flussence euler identity 13:19
should == 0
colomon it equals 0 within floating point accuracy. what more can you ask?
flussence I guess I shouldn't be so picky when there's flops involved :) 13:21
dalek ast: 742fce0 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-num/real-bridge.t:
Fix test so that it's not trying to use is_approx on NaN values.
kudo: a7b6633 | colomon++ | Test.pm:
Make is_approx treat $got ~~ NaN as a failure condition. (Because otherwise returning NaN would always result in the approx test testing true.)
 13:22
flussence rakudo: say i ** 2 13:23
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«-1 + 1.22464679914735e-16i␤»
flussence I think that one's room for improvement though - python does return an integer. 13:24
(but at the same time, it uses "j" instead of "i"... bleh) 13:25
colomon I really don't think we want to go down that path. It's just adding a bunch of special cases to let you pretend that floating point math is more accurate than it really is -- but only in those special cases. 13:27
flussence it is? oh, never mind me then.
[Coke] is there a print format that would render (i**2) as an int? 13:29
colomon [Coke]: not that I know of 13:30
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flussence %d works, but only if .im == 0 13:31
rakudo: Complex.new(2, 0).fmt('%d').say; (i**2).fmt('%d').say 13:32
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«2␤Not enough arguments supplied for the given format string␤ in 'Cool::sprintf' at line 2703:CORE.setting␤ in 'sprintf' at line 2737:CORE.setting␤ in 'Cool::fmt' at line 2525:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/F8XvNJTeA0␤»
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colomon rakudo: say i * i 13:43
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«-1 + 0i␤»
colomon so, you can look at it like this: 13:44
you could add infix:<**>(Complex $x, 2) { $x * $x }
That would give you exact results for squares of complex numbers (where possible).
but it wouldn't help at all with powers greater than 2 13:45
rakudo: say i * i * i * i; say i ** 4
p6eval rakudo d52af1: OUTPUT«1 + 0i␤1 + -2.44929359829471e-16i␤»
colomon you could add infix:<**>(Complex $x, Int $n where { $n >= 0 } ) { [*] $x x $n } 13:46
errr... $x xx $n, I mean
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colomon but that's going to be much slower for higher values of $n 13:46
or you could do infix:<**>(i, Int $n) { given $n % 4 { when 0 { 1 } when 1 { i } when 2 { -1 } when 3 { -1i } } } 13:48
which is fast and accurate, but only for powers of i. 13:49
flussence ok, I get the point :)
colomon yes, but it felt very good to enumerate the cases. Perl 6 makes it easy. :) 13:50
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flussence (and if someone really wants it they can go write a Math:: thing that knows stuff like this) 13:52
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colomon yeah, actually, I'm tempted to do that myself. :) 14:03
it actually wouldn't be that hard to add special handling for a few common cases 14:05
masak colomon: that case with i ** $n could easily be generalized to an Euler's law multisub.
colomon infix:<**>(Complex $x where $x.re == 0, Int $n)
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masak $n doesn't even need to be Int. 14:06
'course, at some point you might re-introduce the floating-point inaccuracy you were trying to avoid... 14:07
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PerlJam Huh. 15:10
I got an email asking if I'd like to do a radio interview concerning Perl 6. 15:11
colomon cool!
PerlJam That is cool, but I wonder, "why me?" It's not like I'm jnthn or pmichaud or TimToady 15:12
I would guess that all of the people who've done some Perl 6 stuff are getting or going to get such an email. 15:13
heh. "Episodes are ... or an interview with a well-known character from the software engineering world." 15:14
I don't think I qualify as "well-known" or a "character" :)
mux wishes he knew about XML::LibXML to do XPath processing before; it works significantly faster than XML::XPath and it my encoding issues have now disappeared 15:16
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masak roots for PerlJam 15:17
PerlJam: you're more involved in Perl 6 than almost the entire rest of humanity
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wolfram__ masak: in"using the cute MAIN()/MAIN('text') idiom" s/text/test/ 15:28
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masak wolfram__++, thanks. 15:28
fixing.
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:35
jnthn morning, pmichaud \o/
takadonet pmichaud: morning 15:36
pmichaud jnthn: Instead of moving nqp-nom to the master branch of the nqp-rx repository, I'm thinking of just creating a new nqp (no -rx) repository where -nom is master
and leave nqp-rx as is
that way if someone feels they need to pick up nqp-rx and maintain its traditional line of development, that can be easily done 15:37
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jnthn pmichaud: wfm 15:38
pmichaud: Would we structure that repo in anticipation of nqp on clr and nqp on jvm moving into there? 15:39
Or even Just Do That?
pmichaud the nqp repo? yes, I think we would begin with the plan that it'll be multiplatform
but I'm still hoping for "one master branch" as opposed to "separate branches for each backend"
jnthn Are you using branch in the source control meaning here? 15:40
pmichaud yes
jnthn Oh, I don't see that happening. (more)
masak morning, pm.
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jnthn May aim is that NQP's Actions.pm and Grammar.pm can be shared. PAST nodes can be shared. I'm hopeful of a shared setting too. 15:40
s/May/My/
pmichaud we're in agreement, it seems 15:41
jnthn So then just the VM-y runtime layer and code-gen is in a backends/parrot, backends/clr, etc folder.
pmichaud Perfect.
jnthn I think we may have a little work to make that reality but hopefully not too much.
There's issues like, references to PMC names in the Parrot one, for example. 15:42
pmichaud I'm working on the draft for a description of the new nqp -- is it correct to say that it no longer makes use of Parrot's Class and Object PMCs?
jnthn Nearly.
A few things still do.
But the aim is that they won't.
e.g. Match still does
But only because I didn't get to migrating it yet.
pmichaud right, that one won't soon enough :-)
jnthn I want PAST and so forth to be migrated to 6model too 15:43
Well, and NQP
pmichaud at this point I'm talking about "what we're targeting" and not "what exists on Jan 26"
jnthn Ah, OK
Then, it doesn't make use of Parort's Class and Object PMCs.
pmichaud (since it's a roadmap doc)
it also doesn't make use of the existing PCT PAST/POST implementation, iiuc 15:44
because it'll have a new one
jnthn It's use of RPA, Hash and Integer/Float/String PMCs should be considered endangered.
*Its
pmichaud agreed there also
how about calling conventions?
clearly it does its own multidispatch
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jnthn NQP will afaik stick what Parrot provides 15:45
On the CLR/JVM there's no notion of Capture or named args and so forth
So needs a little runtime support there.
pmichaud the :multi flag, then?
jnthn Oh, sorry.
I didn't consider :multi part of Parrot's calling conventions. :) 15:46
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jnthn I meant the actual argument passing mechanism. 15:46
No, multi-dispatch is done differently.
pmichaud okay, so arg passing continues to use parrot's existing structure -- that's fine
but it doesn't use Parrot MultiSub then, or the :multi flag
jnthn Right, there's no reason to re-invent things that are addequete.
Correct.
pmichaud does this mean that subs have to be annotated with multimethod data at load time, same as what we currently do for rakudo? 15:47
jnthn For now, yes.
pmichaud okay
jnthn At the moment that is strictly only for multis.
Non-multis don't get that.
Wanted to keep the cost down. 15:48
pmichaud does nqp do argument checking on parameters at all?
jnthn In the long run that stuff should all be built once and serialized.
No, it doesn't. The args only apply in multi-dispatch.
pmichaud Perfect. +1
jnthn I...think we may have to change that.
pmichaud we can change that if need be
jnthn brb, phone
pmichaud but I like not incurring the overhead if we don't have to :)
jnthn back 15:52
The thing that I worry about is
sub foo(OhLol $x) { $x.wtf() }
At compile time (in PAST::Compiler) that does something like if $invocant_node.know_type { my $idx := $invocant_node.type.^vtable_indiex_for('wtf'); if $idx >= 0 { emit_optimized_call() } } 15:54
(pseudo-code :))
So if it doesn't check them then we'll get bugs of the most bizzare kind. :) 15:55
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pmichaud that's okay for me in nqp 15:55
perhaps we have a pessimize mode that checks
jnthn Say that again when you have to track down such a bug. :P
pmichaud I'll rephrase then
jnthn "Huh, I call .wtf and it ends up in .omg!!" :) 15:56
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pmichaud perhaps we have a flag that turns off the checks :-) 15:56
when someone wants speed instead of checking :)
jnthn Ah :)
OK.
--on-your-own-head-be-it :)
pmichaud anyway, let's see if I had any other questions....
jnthn Note that type checks will be a bunch of pointer comparrisions.
So rather cheaper than they are today. ;)
pmichaud oh, that's a plus, definitely 15:57
what will nqp rely on from Parrot as far as libraries and types go?
so far it still uses RPA, Hash, Integer, etc 15:58
tadzik hello
pmichaud but it won't use P6object any longer
jnthn I suspect that whatever happens we'll still use Parrot's actual implementation of hashes, even if we wrap it up differently.
pmichaud and Strings, too?
jnthn Yes
pmichaud okay
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jnthn If we're talking about strings as in STRING * 15:59
Not the String PMC.
pmichaud how will we handle things like :slurpy and :slurpy :named ?
do those still become RPA / Hash, or will they somehow be custom type?
jnthn Preferably, we work out how to get Parrot to create the type we want and do the right thing with it.
pmichaud or do we always just work with :capture ?
jnthn It's meant to already have the HLL mapping support to do that. 16:00
pmichaud (or whatever it's called)
jnthn Well, that's our other option.
pmichaud what does it do now?
jnthn In NQP or Rakudo?
pmichaud NQP
nqp-nom
jnthn NQP still creates Hash and RPA
But it still uses those everywhere ATM for arrays and hashes.
e.g. I'm not at the point where I've had to tackle that issue yet.
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pmichaud right, but we plan to replace those, yes? when we do, how will it affect RPA/Hash in calling arguments? 16:01
jnthn When we do that, we'll not want RPA and Hash to leak in.
pmichaud so, every nqp program will need to be in its own HLL space?
(that does mapping?)
jnthn If we solve it that way. As you mention, in that case we can also just take the Capture and do what we wish with it too. 16:02
pmichaud okay
I think I'd prefer to take the capture, but we can postpone that decision to later
I'm not a fan of HLL mapping atm
jnthn Yes, I'm fine with postponing it.
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jnthn pmichaud: Ponder whether we can get a real setting too. 16:03
I already have it in nqpclr and nqpjvm.
pmichaud define "setting"
jnthn pmichaud: Outer lexical scope. 16:04
pmichaud if "setting" means "standard runtime library", I'm in favor of that.
outer lexical scope....
jnthn As in, the setting is the outer lexical scope of the program.
pmichaud right
jnthn As per Perl 6 spec.
I just built it like that in nqpclr from the start.
pmichaud I don't see a problem with that.
jnthn It was kinda easy though when I could do lexicals the way I wanted. :) 16:05
pmichaud oh, that's the other question I had --- does nqp-nom change lexical handling much?
jnthn No.
Not at all really.
pmichaud I know it changes attribute handling.
jnthn Yeah
But lexicals are still the same.
pmichaud okay, so lexicals are much the s.... right
jnthn I'm just about certain I changed nothing.
That said
pmichaud too bad for now :-)
jnthn I think we have a problem with lexicals.
pmichaud waits to hear the problem :) 16:07
jnthn I want static lexpad support, natively typed lexicals, don't want to allocate a PMC every call frame to hold the lexicals when a single chunk of memory will do, and think most lookups should be done by index/scope count.
Which is kind of a long way from what we have today.
pmichaud let's address each of those one-at-a-time (more) 16:08
index/scope count could be done with a new opcode
at least the scope count part
$P0 = find_lex 3, '$a'
or find_lex '$a', 3 (grab $a from 3rd outer) 16:09
I don't quite follow "allocate a PMC every call frame when a single chunk of memory will do" 16:10
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jnthn pmichaud: Right now, we allocate a PMC to store the lexicals in for every invocation that uses lexicals. 16:13
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jnthn pmichaud: It's GC churn that we don't need, and that wins nothing. 16:13
pmichaud the PMC doesn't actually hold the lexicals though, does it?
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jnthn Not as such. 16:14
It maps names to registers.
pmichaud and that mapping is static, right?
I mean, it's the same mapping for the sub
jnthn I'm not sure that's the case ATM.
pmichaud right now I think the LexPad actually points directly to the register, yes 16:15
jnthn I'm quite sure we create that table once per invocation.
pmichaud but it could just as easily hold the register offset
jnthn What I'd like is that we have one static name => index/offset/whatever table, and lexicals are just stored in something arrayish.
pmichaud lexicals are already stored in something arrayish (more) 16:16
all we need is to make LexPad static or re-used across sub invocations
iirc, LexPad gets created from a LexInfo structure 16:17
it seems to me we could just create it once the first time, populate it with the register offsets, and reuse that over-and-over
then adjust find_lex and store_lex and stuff to do things based on array offset instead of hash fetch/store
jnthn If we can do that, and can statically know those offsets too, that'd be ideal. 16:18
pmichaud we do know the offsets statically -- that's what is in LexInfo (again, iirc)
jnthn I got a notable win in the nqpclr binder when I switched it to bind at indexes, not names.
*nod*
OK, we may be some of the way there on that one.
pmichaud oh, you mean at compile time
jnthn Yes, at compile time.
Well, at PAST::Compiler-time is probably enough.
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jnthn By then the lexpad is "closed" for modification, I guess. 16:19
And it is what has to emit the find_lex/store_lex.
The sig binder could resolve them once at the first bind.
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pmichaud anyway, omitting the lexical-lookup-by-offset for the moment 16:20
I suspect we could get a big win in the very short term by eliminating the LexPad-per-invocation code
jnthn Same.
pmichaud as in reducing GC pressure
jnthn *nod*
pmichaud well.... maybe not :-(
since LexPads are user-visible (at the PIR level), we'd have to have a separate object for each invocation 16:21
jnthn My overall drive here is that we shouldn't have to be in a position where we fear to port a .local int lol to a my int $lol because the second is way more costly.
pmichaud but perhaps those types of LexPads could be created on-demand instead of on every invocation 16:22
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jnthn Hmm. 16:22
Ah! I gotta leave now for a birthday party. :)
And it's mine, so I really, really shouldn't be late for it. :)
pmichaud ah, have fun. Thanks for all of the info, I'll work on writing this up a bit later. And happy birthday!
jnthn I'll catch you tomorrow or so. :)
Thanks!
pmichaud (today is your birthday?)
jnthn o/
(yes, today) 16:23
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pmichaud (cool) 16:23
jnthn *gone*
colomon \o/
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moritz_ jnthn++ # or jnthn.age++ or so :-) 17:32
aka "congratulations"
[Coke] jnthn++ 17:33
tadzik jnthn.age.postfix<++>.&wrap( { say "Happy birthday!" })
or should this be present.&wrap? :) Happy birthday! 17:34
moritz_ fail, postfix:<++> is a sub, not a method :-)
tadzik darn!
well, that was way tooo nerdy ;) 17:35
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PerlJam jnthn: Happy Birthday! 18:19
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dukeleto jnthn: Birthday.new.happy! 18:26
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pmurias sorear: hi 19:07
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^Mike\b In Perl6, can you still do Perl5-style OO where you build a data structure and then say "poof! you're an object"? 19:18
pmurias yes 19:19
but i'm not sure it's implemented yet
^Mike\b hmm
yes, I was sad when I did not get Perl6 for Christmas :'(
tadzik ^Mike\b: I think you can, bless is still there 19:20
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pmurias but it's now more intended for language interop and stuff like making a Python hash an object 19:23
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pmurias sorear: what i would like to have documented even more then the opcodes is how in the .nam file everything is serialised 19:37
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pmichaud I'll be late (or possibly absent) to phone today 20:06
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dalek ecs: 53e18dd | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-operators.pod:
[S03] Updated the semantics of infix:<xor> to match those of infix<^^>.
 21:45
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jnthn had a nice birthday evening, including awesome curry, nice beer and great company. :-) 23:58

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