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Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
diakopter interesting! 03:35
sorear diakopter: hi 03:36
what's so interesting?
moritz miso2217_: thanks for the effort, but that's really a contrived example. Any real-world application of this would involve splitting on a comma 06:47
miso2217_: contrived examples are easy to find - it's real-world examples that I'm after 06:48
moritz miso2217_: also minimal quantifiers (*?, +? etc.) are special-cased in that they do a certain amount of backtracking even inside :ratchet (otherwise they would always match the minimum count, and be fairly useless), so they don't make a good example 06:49
masak lol hi from the course! 07:05
tadzik hi 07:06
masak apparently 'Jan Novak' applied for this course but didn't show up :P 07:07
moritz how's the course? 07:37
masak promising so far. 08:02
the concepts are very language-agnostic, so I'm hoping to be able to apply these things to my Perl 6 coding as well. 08:04
moritz what's the topic? 08:05
masak the whole course is about DDD and CQRS. today we're talking about bounded contexts and aggregates. 08:08
both are devilishly simple concepts, but they apply to everything else in the course, so it's important to understand them well. 08:09
things are a bit 'emperor's new clothes'-y sometimes, in that things sound like bland advice of the type "make sure you separate concepts that don't belong together". but on the other hand, when you go out into the Real World and look at business code, that's exactly what people tend not to do. 08:10
moritz the point is teaching good techniques to do in practice what you preach 08:12
masak aye.
what's positive about DDD and CQRS is that getting the language right is actually a big part of it. so a Perl person like me fits right in. :) 08:13
moritz never heard those two abbreviations before
masak I hadn't either, until I started my new job in January. 08:14
best way I can describe it is this: for a long time I thought if I just understood Patterns, I'd level up from just a general understanding of OO and architecture. 08:15
but patterns aren't really the next level. Domain-Driven Design is.
moritz what do you mean by "Patterns"? sounds like an overloaded term to me 08:16
moritz really shouldn't distract masak++ from his course 08:18
masak I mean Design Patterns, as in the Gang of Four book.
it's ok, we're having a break now.
moritz oh, I never "believed" in them
given that in Perl, some of them are just two lines or so 08:19
masak they have some valid points. but they're simply that, patterns.
moritz I always wondered why they made such a big fuzz
masak and yes, some patterns in some languages go away in other languages.
others, like Interpreter, are important even in Perl 6. I believe both PGE and nqp-rx use Interpreter. 08:20
masak </pause> 08:22
miso2217 moritz: I can't think about any real world example where backtracking would be needed beside performance. I'll try to find some ideas on google. 08:26
moritz miso2217: I think that the example of the word substring duplication is a good one, it just needs to brought into a shape where the backtracking actually works 08:30
erm, is needed
mathw I read an interesting thing once which said that you can consider design patterns to be patches for missing features in your programming language 08:30
moritz something like anchoring it, and adding a .* to the front or so
mathw This is why some of them are trivial in some languages, because that's a language which already has that feature
moritz mathw: I guess that's true to a certain extent 08:31
mathw yeah to a certaine xtent
I wouldn't say it applies to all patterns
moritz mathw: other design patterns are simply formalized experience from solving a certain class of problems
mathw And I do tend to think they're overrated in general
I've got a colleague who thinks the Visitor Pattern is absolutely awesome
Whereas I think it exposes all the things that are pooey about virtual method calls 08:32
And his justification for it being awesome seems to stop somewhere around 'but it's in the book!'
Khisanth anything that is in a book is awesome? 08:33
moritz :-)
mathw: you should write a different book, and point to that :-)
mathw moritz: maybe I will 08:51
'mathw's little book of programming' 08:52
moritz mathw's non-bullshit book of non-bullshit programming 08:52
mathw that's a better title 08:53
I like that
it would need to have code fragments in C++, Perl 5, Perl 6 and Haskell at least
moritz
.oO( Anti-Patterns Observed From Anti-Programmers )
 08:54
that would be a different book though
Su-Shee peter norvig has written a nice article about how 16 of the 24 DP are obsolete in Lisp. 08:55
moritz sounds like fun :-)
arnsholt Su-Shee: I have a friend who rants about DP all being work-arounds for not having proper lambdas =) 09:01
tadzik DP? 09:02
moritz Design Patterns
tadzik oh, 16 of the 24, I see 09:03
misread that
Su-Shee I'm also very hm not critical but let's say suspicious of design pattern (most of them, at least). So I read critiques carefully. 09:04
mathw arnsholt: a lot of crappy programming structure is down to a lack of lambdas IMO
arnsholt There's that as well 09:05
That's probably the thing that annoys me the most when working in Java. I can't use lambdas and everything that comes with it
map and grep for example
Su-Shee "Ruby Design Pattern" is very nice because it shows how to break several of them in a nice, rubyish way. (which basically applies to perl 5&6 as well.)
mathw arnsholt: annoys me in C++ as well. I really need a new compiler which supports C++0x lambdas. 09:06
moritz arnsholt: what really annoys me is the design bloat in libraries of languages that don't have closures
or no pointers to routines at all
arnsholt Yeah, that's annoying as well. Java can do closures with anonymous inner classes, but it's a bit of a hack 09:07
moritz you can't just install a callback, you need to implement the MyCallbackableForSpecificPurpose interface
and instantiate an object
and then pass that around
arnsholt Indeed 09:09
mathw yeah 09:10
and C++ makes you define an entire class for a functor (until C++0x, anyway)
I suspect I will use STL algorithms a lot more when I can define the functor in place
moritz it's a bit curious that the STL relies on callbacks, and it's from a language that doesn't necessarily make them easy 09:14
(yet) 09:15
mathw yeah it seemed like the library design begged for a language feature which wasn't implemented yet
std::for_each is a real pain to use without lambdas 09:16
p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/rkdkZ3L4X0 line 1:␤------> :for_each ⏏is a real pain to use without lambdas␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement modifier loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01
..120m␤»
mathw woops, sorry bot :)
woosley hello *, perl6 09:16
what dose key word augment in class definition mean?
moritz woosley: it means "add to an existing class" 09:17
tadzik that you're to modify an existing class, rather than creating new
moritz dictionary.reference.com/browse/augment
miso2217 I would like to write the perl6 highlighting definition file for kate/kwrite/KDevelop. Any ideas on this? Is there a way to use STD.pm for this to generate part of the highlighting definitions automatically or do I need to go tho all manual way? May be here is a way to reuse the existing vim definition file? 09:18
woosley moritz: LoL, looks like you know that my native language is no english
moritz woosley: not mine either :-) 09:19
TiMBuS hey moritz, did you end up rakudobugging that thing i found yesterday?
moritz TiMBuS: nope, I only rakudobugged the (my $ || my $) thing
TiMBuS oh 09:20
moritz miso2217: I don't really know, but I suspect it will be more work to emit something from STD than to do it manually
(except extracting keywords maybe)
miso2217: STD is intended as an exact parser, and keeps lots of information around, and then does conditional parsing based on that information. You don't want that for a syntax hilighter 09:21
those are all about cheating in a clever way :-)
TiMBuS what was it again?
rakudo: my $f = Match.new; say $f.clone;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«␤»
TiMBuS no its gotta contain something
moritz that's why we have IRC logs
:-) 09:22
woosley moritz: What's being hacking in the Perl6 world right now? 09:23
moritz woosley: jnthn works on the new meta object model for rakudo, I'm working on a spec for error objects 09:24
woosley: tadzik is hacking the module installer, and applied for a GSoC project to implement a Pod6 parser
sorear is hacking niezca 09:25
takadonet is working on his bioperl modules (iirc)
TiMBuS rakudo: my $f = 'a' ~~ /$<foo>='a'/; say $f.clone
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
woosley I think I saw a Pod6 parser on CPAN? 09:26
moritz yep, but that's in perl 5, and not integrated into rakudo, and implements an older spec 09:27
thing is, you are supposed to be able to access documentation of objects through the object itself
so the compiler needs to understand the doc syntax, and attach the documenation to the classes 09:28
woosley So at this time , this parser will be written in Perl6 09:30
moritz right
woosley Is this happening in the Rakudo repository?
moritz it will, at least partially 09:33
(assuming his project is funded)
masak mathw: sounds like something MJD has said in some blog post. 09:36
or someone.
"Design patterns are missing language features."
moritz MJD is always a good bet when attributing witty (and sometimes a bit biting) programming quotes :-)
mathw :) 09:40
masak ah, here: www.codinghorror.com/blog/2005/06/a...volve.html
ah, and that one says Paul Graham said it too. I'm not surprised. 09:43
mathw I followed the link to the c2.com wiki page 09:45
the argument about the Visitor Pattern is quite enlightening
it finally makes me realise what I dislike about it so much
some part of my brain which already knew a language with multimethod dispatch must've been saying 'this is unnecessary crap'
right from the first time I encountered it
kaare_ "It will ultimately be why perl will fall away slowly (slow because languages never die quickly)" (from the comments) :-) 09:46
mathw The more I read this stuff the more I think I really should learn Common Lisp 10:15
but the syntax has always put me off
moritz same here :-)
that's why Perl 6 is like CL, but with a syntax :-)
mathw lol there is that 10:17
moritz the point is just that easy macros *require* an uniform syntax 10:18
so either you sacrifice macroability or readability 10:19
mathw very, very good point
moritz both options suck
mathw when your only syntax is S-expressions, it's easy to define new macros
moritz lips folks neglect syntax, we neglect macros
just a matter of opinions
mathw everything's really just a pile of compromises 10:26
the question is, which compromises are you willing to make? 10:27
This is why it's so valuable to learn more than one language and be willing to employ more than one language
different compromises lead to different problems being solvable with different difficulty
moritz that's a very universal truth, far outside the realm of software 10:28
and with that I'm off to lunch :-) 10:29
mathw :) 10:36
masak mathw: the syntax of Common Lisp puts you off... and yet you went ahead and taught yourself Lojban? :P 11:22
I think I've moved beyond being put off by Lisp's parentheses. the turning point for me was when I started reading really well-indented code. 11:24
the indentation guides the eye, and one can basically trust it and ignore the parens. 11:27
takadonet morning all 12:41
moritz o/
Tene 23andme.com/ is currently running a $0 sale, with a year commitment to their $9/mo update service. $108 is very reasonable. I've found my results from the service pretty fascinating. 12:46
mathw phenny: tell masak yes, I did. Lojban isn't full of parentheses!
phenny mathw: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
moritz Tene: is that the genetic sequencing service? 12:47
Tene phenny: tell masak currently big sale on 23andme.com/
phenny Tene: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
Tene moritz: Kind of. They identify 1M SNPs, which are one specific type of variation (single substitution of a base pair)
There's a general estimate that there are about 10M SNPs across humans globally. 12:48
23andme has reports for specific SNPs, drug response, disease risk, etc. They also give you access to the raw data, to do further research yourself. Look at snpedia.com/index.php/SNPedia for examples and links to research that references specific SNPs. 12:49
Tene www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680 is always my favorite example (I'm AA/Met Met) 12:50
moritz: it won't give you a full sequence of your entire DNA, but it gives you a pretty useful subset of common significant variations we've identified. 12:51
moritz wonders if he should give his wife such a set for Eastern 12:52
Tene They also let you opt-in to let them keep your sample on file, so they can re-run it on newer equipment, when they update. 12:52
It's a saliva sample, so no needles or blood or anything scary. 12:53
The "update service" is just giving you access to new reports they add, whether from new research, or old. Looks like they added a report on skin cancer a couple of days ago, for example, but if I wanted to follow the research myself, I could. It would just be a lot more work. 12:56
tadzik someone is writing Email::MIME: stackoverflow.com/questions/5604128...nt-6401430 12:58
moritz tadzik: sounds more like "it takes too long, so I won't" 12:59
takadonet tadzik: I looked at the p5 version of the module and was too much work..... for the time I have 13:02
perplexa rakudo: let me confuse you 13:39
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &you␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/OyQM_kBpSn␤»
perplexa hmm
isBEKaml so it picked 'you' out? 13:41
tadzik it's the last one 13:42
it could declare the previous subs
isBEKaml yo tadzik!
read the whole sentence. :P
tadzik yo isBEKaml! 13:46
isBEKaml: yeah, I noticed the pun
isBEKaml tadzik: how goes thee? systemas-eco? (sorry if my speech is slurred ;) 13:47
tadzik isBEKaml: mips assembly atm 13:48
:|
isBEKaml tadzik: at school? and assembly?
tadzik isBEKaml: yeah, a project for a university 13:52
I suck at this, and debugging is ridiculous
now it throws a runtime exception on writing 2 bytes to a stack
isBEKaml tadzik: I know. Been there, done that. :( Debugging really sucks, so we usually wound up rewriting every one of our programs. :/ 13:53
tadzik isBEKaml: there is a slurp() sub, like P6's slurp. When I use it once, it's ok. On the second launch, it fails as I said 13:58
isBEKaml tadzik: Oh, can't help you there, mate - though I'd have liked to. :( 14:04
isBEKaml DOE notice that vimperl6 syntax highlighter goes crazy after lines with odd number of quotes (') ? 14:11
*DAE
For eg, Yapsi.pm#L785 14:12
github.com/masak/yapsi/blob/master...si.pm#L785 14:13
isBEKaml My workaround was to insert another quote within a comment on that line. :| 14:14
moritz I know that all too well 14:15
isBEKaml moritz: you lost the dangler! :)
isBEKaml moritz: did you have any other workaround than what I did? 14:16
moritz isBEKaml: open bug report on the github issue tracker :-) 14:19
isBEKaml moritz: that's what I was about to do. Thought of asking it here first. :)
moritz: Oh, and a good opportunity to use github issues 2.0! 14:20
moritz :-)
isBEKaml petdance, right/ 14:21
or is that maintained by someone other than petdance? 14:22
moritz I think petdance
there's a link from perl6.org/whatever/ or so
isBEKaml moritz: done. :) 14:28
flussence_ bah, tryrakudo's broken again. I think I've got a pretty good idea for making it stay up though... 15:07
TimToady is not going to remove the indirect object syntax for various reasons. It resonates with other uses of colon. It decreases paren noise and increases formatting options for well-known method names like "new". Unlike in p5, it's not ambiguous. 16:41
and I don't buy slippery slope arguments, especially "doctor it hurts when I do this" arguments 16:42
TimToady goes to take out his frustrations on his house :) 16:42
moritz observes a house shaking in the far distance 16:44
pyrimidine I personally don't have a problem with it in p6, just not in p5
PerlJam moritz: you've got good eyesight!
pyrimidine moritz: so, acc to TimToady, rakudo doesn't have that correct? 16:46
PerlJam pyrimidine: rakudo doesn't have what?
pyrimidine rakudo: class Foo {}; my $x = new Foo;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax at line 22, near ";"␤»
pyrimidine PerlJam: indirect object syntax 16:47
moritz pyrimidine: that's not indirect object syntax in p6
pyrimidine: that still requires a colon after the invocant. And no, NYI
PerlJam pyrimidine: it does, but it's makred with a colon
er, s/makred/marked/ 16:48
pyrimidine ah
sorear long line of code:
another long line of code;
# this is my only problem with IOS
isBEKaml rakudo: class Foo; my $x = new Foo; #empty constructors, anyone? 17:04
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax at line 22, near "; #empty c"␤»
sorear class Foo { }; my Foo $x .= new; 17:05
isBEKaml rakudo: class Foo; my Foo $x .= new; 17:06
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: ( no output )
isBEKaml hmm, so I don't need those `unsightly` braces. 17:06
sorear yes you do 17:07
without the braces it means something completely different
isBEKaml rakudo: class Foo; my Foo $x .= new; $x.perl.say;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Foo.new()␤»
isBEKaml sorear: ^^ 17:07
sorear class Foo; my Foo $x .= new; $x.perl.say means class Foo { my Foo $x .= new; $x.perl.say } 17:08
sorear so if you have any package-scope declarations after class Foo; they'll go into the class 17:08
isBEKaml headslaps!
isBEKaml the key phrase was "package scope declaration". Right, headslap! :/ 17:10
flussence_
.oO( freenode's "excess flood" logic is counterproductive... )
 17:21
jaffa4 is there reflection in Perl6? 18:02
arnsholt jaffa4: That depends a bit on what you mean, but there is plenty of run-time introspection of attributes and whatnot 18:07
(I'm no expert on the details though)
isBEKaml jaffa4: jnthn++ wrote an article on that some time back. MOP, I think. 18:09
Let me dig up that link for you ...
jaffa4 ok 18:17
I just wonder how far they have got
isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.^HOW.perl.say; 18:21
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«too many positional arguments: 2 passed, 1 expected␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/pD02nb2G1A␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.^methods.perl.say;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ...
..}, { …
isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.^methods(:local).join(",").perl.say;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132:
..OUTPUT«"perl,pred,succ,WHICH,Str,Bridge,Int,Rat,Num,sign,gcd,ACCEPTS,Real,Bool,Complex,reals,isNaN,abs,exp,ln,sqrt,roots,floor,ceiling,truncate,round,cis,unpolar,rand,sin,asin,cos,acos,tan,atan,sec,asec,cosec,acosec,cotan,acotan,sinh,asinh,cosh,acosh,tanh,atanh,sech,asech,cosech,acosech,c…
isBEKaml jaffa4: ^^ that was one way 18:22
rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.HOW.methods(:local).join(",").perl.say;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 1 passed, 2 (or more) expected␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/4dd1OoFPcY␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.HOW.methods(Int).join(",").perl.say;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132:
..OUTPUT«"perl,pred,succ,WHICH,Str,Bridge,Int,Rat,Num,sign,gcd,ACCEPTS,Real,Bool,Complex,reals,isNaN,abs,exp,ln,sqrt,roots,floor,ceiling,truncate,round,cis,unpolar,rand,sin,asin,cos,acos,tan,atan,sec,asec,cosec,acosec,cotan,acotan,sinh,asinh,cosh,acosh,tanh,atanh,sech,asech,cosech,acosech,c…
isBEKaml that's another. 18:23
rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.WHAT.perl.say; 18:24
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Int␤»
isBEKaml so you know it's an Int.
for more look at S12(I think)
jaffa4 rakudo: join.WHAT.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Str␤»
isBEKaml while I'm still searching for the link... ;)
tadzik oh, what? 18:25
rakudo: join.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«""␤»
tadzik mhm
moritz $x.^methods also works
isBEKaml er, join takes a blank? 18:26
isBEKaml rakudo: join.perl.say; # shouldn't rakudo cop out? 18:26
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«""␤»
jaffa4 what is the response?
I cannot read it
isBEKaml jaffa4: you don't have an unicode enabled irc client?
what irc client are you using/ 18:27
jaffa4 kvirc
isBEKaml oh, dunno about that. most of use here use xterm+irssi (for unicode) or simply xchat.
moritz jaffa4: try the online irc logs, maybe your browser displays it correctly
jaffa4 ok 18:35
isBEKaml jaffa4: use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/36958 18:39
anyone still use use.perl.org? and it isn't even indexed on google search.. :/
isBEKaml jaffa4: you may find this of interest too.. 18:40
perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/1...-and-more/
[Coke] no. use.perl.org is dead-ish.
isBEKaml [Coke]: yeah. If anything, I'd have expected it to show up on google search(atleast some of the content in there is archived) 18:41
masak evning, zebry. 18:42
phenny masak: 12:46Z <mathw> tell masak yes, I did. Lojban isn't full of parentheses!
masak: 12:47Z <Tene> tell masak currently big sale on 23andme.com/
isBEKaml masak!
masak isBEKaml! \o/
tadzik masak: dobry wieczór zebro 18:43
isBEKaml masak: thee how goes?
masak isBEKaml: I feel great. I regret that I never got a Yapsi release out this month, but that's a small worry, relatively speaking. and thou, good sir, how fare you? 18:44
isBEKaml masak: I'm hale and healthy, goodsir! I just got to look at Yapsi today after a long time... :) 18:46
masak \o/
isBEKaml: I almost got the ENTER phaser working locally. exciting times.
isBEKaml: is it the first time you have a look at Yapsi since the FUTURE arrived? 18:47
isBEKaml named subs, closures, repl! it feels like universe left me and ran way ahead.. good times, good times, I hope?
masak yes, unless you mean runtime performance :P
isBEKaml masak: yes, I was a wee bit puzzled looking at FUTURE and wondered if I was looking at tardis. :P
and droid!
masak ironically, Tardis will be least affected by FUTURE. :) 18:48
isBEKaml jaffa4: here's another: use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/39455 18:49
masak clearly missed some backlog
isBEKaml jaffa4: I could go on digging up references. All you have to look for is jnthn! :P
jaffa4: here's a list of all his entries, go have a good dive! use.perl.org/journal.pl?op=list&uid=6049 18:50
masak jnthn also has a new blog or two.
moritz this is going to sounds like the average scammer, so I apologize in advance... my wife's nephew (6 years old) is currently recovering from leukemia. I'm lookiing for people who would send him a post card to cheer him up
isBEKaml masak: nah, jaffa4 was specifically asking for meta model stuff. and I remembered jnthn's old blog posts(unless they are moved somewhere than use.perl.org) 18:51
masak well, jnthn is definitely still blogging about meta model stuff at his new blog, too.
moritz (English, Norwegian, Swedish, French, Spanish, German, Danish would be OK)
isBEKaml masak: yes, the new ones and NQP. AIUI, jaffa4 wanted references on existing functionalities.. 18:53
masak moritz: that's a great initiative. is there an address involved?
moritz masak: address comes via /msg
tadzik moritz: how long could the postcard go?
masak isBEKaml: well, 6model is largely implemented, IIUC.
moritz tadzik: hum? it's usually just a quarter of a page, a postcard :-)
isBEKaml masak: well, it shows I have been out too long.. :/ 18:54
tadzik moritz: no, I mean the delivery time :)
my CLA for TPF has never come to the US I think :)
moritz tadzik: just postal mail to .de 18:54
isBEKaml moritz: that's a great thing you're doing... address please
moritz isBEKaml: sent by personal message 18:55
tadzik moritz: I can send one too
moritz thanks in advance to masak++, isBEKaml++ and tadzik++ 18:56
isBEKaml moritz: PM'd you. 18:58
masak moritz: oh, and it's not a scam until you promise us money :P
moritz isBEKaml: re-sent, hope you got it now
masak: I know, it's just the usual "somebody's i know around 3 corners is really sick..." 18:59
except that I know him personally :-)
isBEKaml crap, how do you unignore in irssi...? I did that and I still didn't get it.. 19:00
moritz isBEKaml: perlpunks.de/paste/show/4da35021.791e.2b4 expires in 1 hour, password foobar 19:02
isBEKaml moritz: got it. thanks. 19:03
masak I just want to declare that today, on the CQRS course, when we were asked to implement a simple value object with TDD, and got to choose implementation language, I took one look at Eclipse, went "nah", and fired up tote/rakudo ;) 19:05
I was among the first to finish. :)
moritz :-)
isBEKaml masak: :) 19:06
masak the big point of that exercise, by the way, is that getter methods are contrary to the encapsulation that OO provides. and that TDD can be done just fine even without them. 19:08
isBEKaml masak: I think TDD doesn't require all of OO. The whole point of TDD is just that, tests and adherence to specs/behaviour. 19:09
irssi can be an infuriating at times. :/ 19:10
masak isBEKaml: yes. testing against getters causes a lot of bad coupling. 19:11
moritz masak: did your instructor cope well with your choice of language?
isBEKaml masak: :} I just tell people, I won't use java if given a choice. 19:12
isBEKaml masak: seen junit? makes testing a lot easier, if you ask me.. 19:12
masak` isBEKaml: seen it, used it quite a bit. 19:13
isBEKaml anyway, enough about java!
masak` and yes, it does make testing easier.
masak` but I only settled in with JUnit after having tried to use it two or three times, each time ending up re-implementing a small subset of TAP in Java instead :) 19:14
isBEKaml that's insane. I thought java can never be influenced by anything. perl6 now ventures there! 19:16
jaffa4 TDD? 19:16
isBEKaml Test Driven Development.
masak jaffa4: Test-Driven Development.
isBEKaml jaffa4: you got those links I sent you? you can look at them or bug jnthn here if you don't see them quite right.. ;) 19:18
jnthn++
jaffa4 got them 19:20
slavik tdd -> test before code? 19:23
masak slavik: no, but the two are related. 19:24
isBEKaml slavik: that would work too. the idea is to see if there's anything that you left out and see that things actually break where they are supposed to.
masak slavik: TDD could be used to apply tests after the code was written, too. but test-first goes really well with TDD. 19:25
slavik isBEKaml: but if you're coding the test, who is going to test the test?
isBEKaml slavik: you. :) 19:26
slavik D:
tadzik heh, that reminds me of this roast commit of mine... 19:28
moritz isBEKaml: yes, ok
isBEKaml: you still seem to not receive my private messages :-)
isBEKaml moritz: I received it. 19:28
tadzik github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f8adce3
that one :)
slavik rofl 19:29
tadzik (:
I resisted the tempation to check who wrote that in the first place :)
moritz it was probably me
slavik tadzik: I am not better than you, how do I find out? 19:30
we gotta make fun of someone :D
moritz is notorious for being bad at basic arithmetic
slavik: git blame
slavik I don't have it copied
but git is awesome :D
tadzik moritz: that's usual. When you do complicated integrals, you usually make a mistake in multiplication 19:31
arnsholt Or a sign error. I always make sign errors
isBEKaml tadzik: :O maybe you misplaced something?
simple. don't do arithmetic! 19:32
tadzik who doesn't know github.com/perl6/ecosystem/wiki/Mo...write-port ? 19:45
this page needs more attention and a better link
something like modules.perl6.org/most-wanted maybe?
isBEKaml tadzik: I'd suggest putting that out on perl6.org
or rakudo.org
tadzik it is somewhere on perl6.org 19:46
but I hid it so good that even I don't know where it is
moritz getting-started maybe?
which itself isn't linked anywhere?
moritz f*ck, perl6.org still links to proto as the module installer 19:47
masak :(
no wonder proto won't die! 19:48
tadzik (: 19:48
where does it?
moritz front page
and modules.perl6.org too
masak jumps on the back of the proto zombie, drags it into a cellar and bars the cellar door shut
tadzik I thought it mentions neutro
which is bad too
isBEKaml that still shows proto! 19:49
masak we do eat through module installers, don't we? :)
jaffa4 what is >>
moritz jaffa4: please provide more context
jaffa4 say Pair.^attributes(:local)>>.name.join(", "); 19:49
colomon hyper
moritz it calls the .name method not on the return list, but on each item in the list separately 19:50
colomon and in no specific order
isBEKaml that means join everything calling name on that and print
tadzik moritz: yeah, we have like... five?
isBEKaml that can be used on anything that returns a list (more than a single item, generally)
rakudo: say Pair.^attributes(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«␤»
isBEKaml heh. 19:51
moritz isBEKaml: Pair is defined in PIR
isBEKaml: which is why the introspection on it still fails
isBEKaml moritz: ah. new thing?
isBEKaml moritz: I seem to remember seeing Pair.pm or something.. 19:52
moritz isBEKaml: yes, but it only augments Pair.pir
moritz isBEKaml: I tried to move it to all perl 6, but it's used in the compilation fairly early 19:52
isBEKaml moritz: ah...
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 80d7635 | moritz++ | source/index.html:
[/] link to modules, not Whatever
 19:53
jaffa4 rakudo: say Num.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", "); 19:54
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«pred, succ, WHICH, Str, Bridge, Int, Rat, Num, isNaN, ln, perl, sqrt, floor, ceiling, rand, sin, asin, cos, acos, tan, atan, sec, asec, sinh, asinh, cosh, acosh, tanh, atanh, sech, asech, cosech, acosech, cosec, acosec, cotan, acotan, cotanh, acotanh, atan2, ACCEPTS, Real,
..Bool, Co…
[Coke] doesn't use junit, but does use mxunit
jaffa4 rakudo: say Str.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS, perl, pred, succ, WHICH, Bool, Str, encode␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say Str.methods(:local)>>.name.join(", "); 19:55
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'methods' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/pn29XL0e3r␤»
isBEKaml [Coke]: flash?
jaffa4 rakudo: say Int.methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'methods' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/IPeuFmkFmz␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say Int.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
[Coke] isBEKaml: ColdFusion
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 7dca706 | moritz++ | source/index.html:
[/] the casual visitor will find niecza far more interesting than viv
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«perl, pred, succ, WHICH, Str, Bridge, Int, Rat, Num, sign, gcd, ACCEPTS, Real, Bool, Complex, reals, isNaN, abs, exp, ln, sqrt, roots, floor, ceiling, truncate, round, cis, unpolar, rand, sin, asin, cos, acos, tan, atan, sec, asec, cosec, acosec, cotan, acotan, sinh, asinh,
..cosh, a…
[Coke] (my $dayjob) 19:56
isBEKaml [Coke]: wow. (not sarcastic, but really, wow)
jaffa4 rakudo: say Int.^methods(:global)>>.name.join(", "); 19:57
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«perl, pred, succ, WHICH, Str, Bridge, Int, Rat, Num, sign, gcd, ACCEPTS, Real, Bool, Complex, reals, isNaN, abs, exp, ln, sqrt, roots, floor, ceiling, truncate, round, cis, unpolar, rand, sin, asin, cos, acos, tan, atan, sec, asec, cosec, acosec, cotan, acotan, sinh, asinh,
..cosh, a…
isBEKaml [Coke]: I heard of CF long time back from an old friend. Never heard anything since.
jaffa4 DId i just return all methods that use int as a argument?
rakudo: cos(i) 19:58
PerlJam jaffa4: no
moritz s/argument/invcant/
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: ( no output )
jaffa4 rakudo: cos(i1)
isBEKaml jaffa4: :global is default when you don't mention it.
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &i1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/7tMZNQtprQ␤»
[Coke] there are 2 OS engines that implement it. We're still using the commercial one (adobe) here. it's ... OK.
jaffa4 rakudo: say cos(i1)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &i1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/sxkgc4bZgr␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say cos(1)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0.54030230586814␤»
tadzik rakudo: say cos(i)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1.54308063481524 + -0i␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say 1.cos
tadzik nice try :)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0.54030230586814␤»
[Coke] wonders why cos(i) prints out -0i. 19:59
isBEKaml too
tadzik wonders why cos(i) even works
should it?
isBEKaml no imagination!
tadzik :D
probably
moritz why shouldn't it? 20:00
tadzik hmm
jaffa4 rakudo: say arccos(i)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &arccos␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/85awXWbwDK␤»
[Coke] wolframalpha.com sayz yes.
isBEKaml wait a minute, probably it was treating it on a polar coordinate.
tadzik well, division is defined for Complexes, so I guess it's alright
moritz there's a perfectly fine definition for sin(), cos() etc. in terms of exp() 20:01
jaffa4 rakudo: say 1i+4
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«4 + 1i␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say (1i+4)*(3i)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-3 + 12i␤»
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: 81d4bd8 | moritz++ | web/index.tmpl:
[web] link to Pls instead of proto+neutro
jaffa4 rakudo: say sqrt(-1) 20:02
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
jaffa4 it could say i,
frooh arcanez: wesome
woops
moritz rakudo: say sqrt(-1 + 0i)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0 + 1i␤»
moritz jaffa4: it could, but we decided against it 20:03
not all people know about complex numbers
so we only return them when explicitly requested
jaffa4 it makes sens
e
[Coke] moritz: is there a pragma to turn that always on?
moritz [Coke]: no. 20:04
jaffa4 What is >> again?
moritz jaffa4: same as before. If you forgot, backlog
[Coke]: but if you are familiar with complex numbers, you can be bothered to use .roots(2) and pick whatever leaf of the complex plain you want :-)
rakudo: say ~2.roots(2) 20:05
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1.4142135623731 + 0i -1.4142135623731 + 1.73191211247099e-16i␤»
jaffa4 say Int.^methods(:global)
raudo: say Int.^methods(:global)
rakudo: say Int.^methods(:global)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132:
..OUTPUT«perlpredsuccWHICHStrBridgeIntRatNumsigngcdACCEPTSRealBoolComplexrealsisNaNabsexplnsqrtrootsfloorceilingtruncateroundcisunpolarrandsinasincosacostanatansecaseccosecacoseccotanacotansinhasinhcoshacoshtanhatanhsechasechcosechacosechcotanhacotanhatan2Numericconjugateloglog10to-radiansf…
Tene masak: www.happyprog.com/tdgotchi/ is cute and silly
isBEKaml rakudo: Int.^methods.take(5).join(", ").say 20:07
jaffa4 Are macros working?
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'take' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/NYkiko95_r␤»
Tene jaffa4: no.
isBEKaml rakudo: Array.^methods(:local).perl.say 20:08
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }]␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: Array.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ") 20:09
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: ( no output )
jaffa4 rakudo: say 1|3
isBEKaml rakudo: Array.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ").perl.say
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«any(1, 3)␤»
rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«"new, at_pos, perl, splice, delete"␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: Array.^methods>>.name.join(", ").perl.say
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«"new, at_pos, perl, splice, delete, new, Capture, eager, elems, flat, iterator, list, munch, Bool, Num, Str, exists, fmt, map, perl, reverse, rotate, sort, pop, push, shift, unshift, ACCEPTS, at_pos, hash, of, item, Numeric, Int, Num, Str, elems, fmt, list, Numeric, Real, Int,
..Rat,…
jaffa4 rakudo: say (1,2,3) >> join(":::")
masak Tene: ah. :)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "join(\":::\""␤»
masak Tene: very much the same feel/principle as with tote, in fact. 20:10
jaffa4 rakudo: say (1,2,3) ==> join(":::")
isBEKaml rakudo: Int.^methods.elems.take(5).join(", ").say
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«123␤»
rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'take' not found for invocant of class 'Integer'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ANkvl_8jnU␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say ((1,2,3) ==> join(":::"))
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1:::2:::3␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: Int.^methods.list.take(5).join(", ").say
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'take' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/xZkUpxhPGz␤»
moritz \o/ perl6.org updated 20:11
masak rakudo: 1,2,3 ==> join(":::") ==> say
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1:::2:::3␤»
masak moritz++
jaffa4 rakudo: say (1 ==> join(":::")) 20:12
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say PI
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &PI␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/rsMY6_hNkB␤»
moritz rakudo: say exp(1i * pi) 20:13
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-1 + 1.22464679914735e-16i␤»
isBEKaml moritz: "Whatever" still shows proto?
moritz isBEKaml: I just noticed, updating...
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 306179c | moritz++ | source/ (2 files):
more module tweaks
 20:14
jaffa4 rakudo: pi
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: ( no output )
jaffa4 rakudo: say pi
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
jaffa4 What is the binary or operator?
flussence_ +|
jaffa4 rakudo: say 3+|5 20:15
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«7␤»
slavik what's +| supposed to do?
jaffa4 rakudo: say 3+|5+|255
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«255␤»
isBEKaml slavik: 3 | 5
PerlJam slavik: bitwise-or
jaffa4 rakudo: say 3+|5+|255+&4 20:16
flussence_ | in numeric context
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«7␤»
PerlJam slavik: numeric bitwise or
slavik +| in boolean?
isBEKaml slavik: no. bitwise.
jaffa4 it shoud be 4
flussence_ rakudo: say (3+|5+|255)+&4 20:17
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«4␤»
jaffa4 you are right
precedence
rakudo: say !3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say +!3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0␤» 20:18
jaffa4 rakudo: say +^3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-4␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say 0+!3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say 1+^1
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say 3+^1 20:19
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«2␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say ~3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say +~3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3␤»
jaffa4 What is completenter?
rakudo: say 3~3~''oo' 20:20
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 3~3~''"␤»
flussence_ there's no complement operator, since it's not possible to know in advance what bitsize you expect the output to be. 20:21
you'll have to xor with 0xFFFFFFFF if you want a 32-bit complement
PerlJam It would be nice to have a compliment operator though ... 20:22
"Your hair looks nice"
tadzik :D
PerlJam "you have pretty eyes"
tadzik where is this unicode heart...
.u heart
phenny U+2766 FLORAL HEART (❦)
jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
tadzik notmuch
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-1␤»
isBEKaml .u love
phenny isBEKaml: Sorry, no results for 'love'.
isBEKaml blah!
tadzik poor, ronery phenny 20:23
jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF+1
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0␤»
tadzik no results for Love :(
jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF*500
isBEKaml phenny: love thyself!
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-500␤»
tadzik hugme: hug phenny
oh, love is not there again
how depressing 20:24
isBEKaml phenny: tell yourself to love thyself. 20:24
phenny isBEKaml: I'll pass that on when yourself is around.
moritz hugme: hug tadzik
hugme hugs tadzik
tadzik moritz: thanks, I missed that :)
jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFFFFFFF*500
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1.40737488355328e+17␤»
isBEKaml hugme: hug phenny
hugme hugs phenny
isBEKaml phenny: hug back!
jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFF*500
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«134217727500␤»
tadzik hugme: hug maja 20:27
hugme hugs maja
tadzik maja: welcome :)
maja hi :)
isBEKaml whoa, tadzik is being especially harsh on moritz... 20:28
silly pytos.
tadzik :P
I actually wrote that in the first place, and left it there w/o correcting for -Ofun 20:29
jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333 20:29
p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«819␤»
jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333*700
masak hiya, maja.
p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«573300␤»
masak dang, I missed maja :)
jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333fffffffffffffffff*700
p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«1.69414897572948E+26␤» 20:30
jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff*700
isBEKaml masak: maja means great fun in my native tongue.
p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«1.62267234429247E+79␤»
isBEKaml :)
jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff*700
tadzik isBEKaml: if you knew what I know... :)
p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«1.87892620893239E+156␤»
masak isBEKaml: sounds like your language is properly huffmannized.
isBEKaml masak: oh, you don't know... :P 20:31
tadzik isBEKaml: what language would that be?
masak probably not :)
isBEKaml tadzik: you got masak in on your joke too? slavic tongues always confound... :D
tadzik isBEKaml: what joke? :) 20:32
jaffa4 maja kniga
tadzik wonders to what word in Polish "masak" is close
masak 'maska', apparently.
tadzik yeah
isBEKaml tadzik: "01:59 < tadzik> isBEKaml: if you knew what I know... :)"
masak tadzik: yes. spill it out. what is it that you know? :) 20:33
tadzik oh, you know, stuff :)
isBEKaml masak: maska again. bittersweet, salty. :D
tadzik maja is a close friend of mine apparently
moritz tadzik: oh, did I typo somewhere?
tadzik :)
moritz: aye, the commit message
masak tadzik: we're geeks, you can't expect us to be happy about your withholding information from us! :)
moritz if so, please correct it
ah 20:34
isBEKaml moritz: github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org...ent-337656
tadzik moritz: I commented on a commit
masak: fine. Whatcha wanna know? :)
moritz tadzik: I just searched the files for the wrong speling :-)
masak tadzik: you sir, are a tease.
tadzik masak: you know this variant of Truth of Dare in which everyone's afraid to say "Dare"? :)
moritz wha'ever
isBEKaml masak: huffmanised tease.
slavik speaking of slavic languages ... kind of interesting that it is quiet a large family of languages which are very familiar 20:35
masak tadzik: actually, I don't. I don't play that game nearly enough :)
isBEKaml exactly what I meant. Swedish isn't that far off the slavic family from polish.
masak tadzik: why would one be afraid to say "Dare"? isn't Dare the non-scary option?
slavik except that all the names have a lot of jjjjjkkkkkk and such
moritz good for vim users :-) 20:36
slavik vowels are there for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P
masak isBEKaml: er. Swedish isn't a slavic language.
tadzik masak: it depends on the company :)
slavik moritz: maybe vim users invented it?
moritz :-)
isBEKaml masak: Scandinavian,okay. :)
tadzik in colemak j and k are pretty far apparently
j is on qwerty 'y', k is on 'n'
masak tadzik: you do know that jnthn and I aren't the only people in Sweden? ;)
isBEKaml masak: to be honest, I didn't include swedish in slavic family actually. :) 20:37
tadzik masak: yeah, I know :) What are you up to?
or is that a Truth or Dare question? :P
slavik masak: there are more than 2 people in Sweden?!?! 20:38
no wait ... there are 4
the other 2 are professional starcraft2 players
masak tadzik: if only you knew what I'm up to... :P
slavik actually, make that 5
masak yeah. the King of Sweden, too.
tadzik slavik: your nick is pretty close to "Słowik"
and IKEA
I don't think that's one person
masak IKEA is a company, not a person.
isBEKaml tadzik: and slavic
slavik holy crap, 60% of Swedish population is made up of professional sc2 players 20:39
tadzik oh, so you all work for IKEA?
that explains LackRack
slavik that explains the poor packaging
stop being lazy!!!
isBEKaml that explains the constant movement!
jaffa4 rakudo: my $b=< 1 2 3>; 20:40
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: ( no output )
jaffa4 rakudo: my $b=< 1 2 3>; say $b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3>; say $b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$b' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/Kz6uNmuqO5:22)␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3>; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«123␤» 20:41
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3>; say @b*3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«9␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1>; say @b*3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«12␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> >> sin; say @b*3
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤» 20:41
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; @b >> sin; say @b*3 20:42
tadzik »
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤»
tadzik hrm
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; @b >> sin; say @b
tadzik rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; @b » sin; say @b*3
masak jaffa4: it's @b>>.sin
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤»
rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "@b \x{bb} sin; "␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; @b>> sin; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤» 20:43
tadzik still an LTA message for me
masak jaffa4: it's @b>>.sin
jaffa4: but that won't change @b itself.
only calculate the answer and throw it away.
Tene do we support hyper addign into aggregates? @b>>.=sin ? 20:43
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>> sin; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤»
jaffa4 I cannot see what is wrong 20:44
Tene rakudo: my @b = < 1 2 3 1 >; my @c=@b>>.sin; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
masak jaffa4: you're missing a dot.
Tene jaffa4: you left out the .
rakudo: my @b = < 1 2 3 1 >; @b>>.=sin; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0.8414709848078970.9092974268256820.1411200080598670.841470984807897␤»
masak \o/
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>. sin; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @c=@b>>"␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>.sin; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤» 20:45
isBEKaml rakuod: my @b=<1 2 3 4>; my @c= (@b>>.sin); say @c.perl;
rakudo: my @b=<1 2 3 4>; my @c= (@b>>.sin); say @c.perl;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[0.841470984807897, 0.909297426825682, 0.141120008059867, -0.756802495307928]␤»
isBEKaml >>.= does inplace? hmmm
masak well, .= does in-place. 20:46
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 1>
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: ( no output )
masak the >> merely distributes the calculation on the elements.
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 1>; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<231␤»
isBEKaml masak: I forgot context. I was speaking about >> alone. :)
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 >>; say @b 20:47
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @b=< < "␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 \>>; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 \> >; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>\␤»
isBEKaml heh. arrays are not homogeneous?
masak sorry, what? 20:48
isBEKaml rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>.*3; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @c=@b>>"␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>.(*3); say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
isBEKaml masak: I'm again losing context. :) too much FP, apparently.
masak rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c= @b >>.*3; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @c= @b "␤»
masak rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c= @b >>*>> 3; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤» 20:49
masak rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c= @b >>*>> 3; say @c
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3693␤»
isBEKaml masak: homogeneity in arrays or lists refers to the contents of the array being of the same type as every other element in it.
masak isBEKaml: ah. no, certainly not :)
isBEKaml: not unless you ask for it.
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>*; say @b
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at line 22, near "; say @b"␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>*>>8; say @b
isBEKaml rakudo: my Int @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b.WHAT
masak isBEKaml: we're not in a HM regime here :)
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«()␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: my Int @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b; 20:50
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>\␤»
isBEKaml hah.
masak: HM?
masak Hindley-Milner? 20:51
the type system that ML and Haskell use...
isBEKaml masak: ouch. that was the first thing I though.
masak: HM is a type inference algorithm, how haskell and ML infer types.
masak unless it means "Hidden Markov" :P
isBEKaml or higher mathematics.
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>*>> 8; say @b 20:52
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>> 8; say @b
masak jaffa4: say @c
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>> 8; say @c
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«816248␤»
masak \o/
rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>> 8; say @c.perl
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>* >> 8; say @c
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[8, 16, 24, 8]␤»
rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at line 22, near " >> 8; say"␤»
masak jaffa4: meta'd operators must be written without whitespace in them. 20:53
moritz in fact all operators must be free of whitespace
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>>8>>+>>1; say @c
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«917259␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>>8>>+>>1; say @c.perl 20:54
isBEKaml rakudo: my @b = <1 2 3 4>; my @c=@b >>*>>8>>*8; @c.perl.say;
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[9, 17, 25, 9]␤»
rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at line 22, near "8; @c.perl"␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: my @b = <1 2 3 4>; my @c=@b >>*>>8>>*>>8; @c.perl.say; 20:54
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[64, 128, 192, 256]␤»
isBEKaml \o/
rakudo: my Int @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b; 20:55
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>\␤»
isBEKaml masak: ^^ I specifically asked for an Int array. what's wrong here?
jaffa4 rakudo: say e+4 20:55
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«6.71828182845904␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say 'e'+4 20:56
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«4␤»
masak isBEKaml: the type checking is not done, I guess.
jaffa4 rakudo: say '1y'+4
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«5␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say '1yuuuuu'+4
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«5␤»
isBEKaml masak: poor, poor rakudo. What can I do for you? :)
jaffa4 rakudo: say '-1yuuuuu'+4 20:57
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say "1yuuuuu"+4
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«5␤»
jaffa4 rakudo: say "1".ord+4
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«53␤»
isBEKaml masak: is there a bug ticket open on this? 20:58
jaffa4 rakudo: say "1"++ 21:00
p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 7538:CORE.setting␤»
masak` isBEKaml: I believe so. 21:09
isBEKaml: however, I don't exactly feel I have a good overview of the ticket queue anymore. 21:10
masak` 'night, #perl6. 21:17
jaffa4 bye 21:18
sorear good * #perl6 22:03
Tene an acquaintence of mine in a different channel had an interesting example of precircumfix syntax. 23:57
17:49 < jcowan> {www.ccil.org/~cowan/whatever}foo
17:50 < jcowan> the conventional expanded form of cowan:foo in discussing XML namespaces.
Tene I don't know enough about XML namespace syntax and semantics to know if that's really precircumfix in the same sense that we understand postcircumfix here or not, though. 23:58

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