»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
jnthn hmm 00:02
nom: say Cool.^parents.WHAT
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
jnthn nom: say Cool.^parents.[0..2]
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Any() Mu() Any()␤»
pmichaud oh
you're using arrays
jnthn uh.
nom: say Cool.^parents
p6eval nom: OUTPUT« ␤»
pmichaud I think it should be a List. 00:03
anyway, I can fix it, if that's what it is.
jnthn pmichaud: types.c
:)
I think you pondered Parcel earlier.
Whatever you think works best is fine for me, anyway.
pmichaud oh! it's the auto-conversion!
yes, I'll fix it. 00:04
I understand now.
jnthn I'm not sure why it fails here though.
ooc...
nom: say [Cool, Any, Mu]
p6eval nom: OUTPUT« ␤»
jnthn nom: say [Cool, Any, Mu].[0..2]
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Cool() Any() Mu()␤»
pmichaud types stringify to ''
jnthn nom: say Cool 00:05
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Cool()␤»
pmichaud that's not stringification, that's .gist :)
jnthn oh, that's .gist
yeah
hmm
pmichaud nom: say Cool.Str
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«␤»
jnthn People are gonna get bothered shat they can't say %obj.^parents, I fear.
*that
pmichaud so, fixing .^methods to return a Parcel will fix that
jnthn oh
pmichaud nom: say (Cool, Any, Mu)
jnthn :)
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Cool() Any() Mu()␤»
jnthn excellent. 00:06
pmichaud because Lists .gist differently than Parcels
I *totally* understand what's happening now :-)
jnthn When doing hypers, it's nice if $obj>>.foo talls out of it nicely too 00:07
pmichaud I plan to do that as well, yes.
even if it doesn't fall out nicely
jnthn Great.
pmichaud but given how cleanly the others worked, I'm guessing it may fall out nicely.
jnthn What's your rough roadmap beyond meta-ops? Start to look at regexes? 00:10
pmichaud regexes, yes. and numerics. 00:15
(i.e., Str.Numeric)
afk, fetching dinner
00:16 thou left 00:17 twinshadow joined 00:21 [Coke] left 00:23 [Coke] joined 00:31 pernatiy joined 00:32 [Coke] left 00:33 [Coke] joined 00:42 drbean joined
[Coke] yawns. 00:47
jnthn -> venue
01:05 cooper left 01:08 zby_home_ left 01:09 cognominal left 01:10 cognominal joined 01:21 thundergnat left 01:24 araujo left 01:25 araujo joined 01:27 zorgnax joined
pmichaud awww, livestreaming of beijing perl workshop doesn't seem to be working :( 01:28
oh, I'm an hour too soon 01:29
01:29 jrockway left, jrockway joined 01:37 JimmyZ joined
JimmyZ pmichaud: It's 9:30 here, that livestream will be online at 10:00 01:38
01:39 zorgnax left 01:48 s1n left 01:50 s1n joined
dalek dule-Starter/create_stub_module: 391eceb | dukeleto++ | bin/module-starter:
Start attempting to actually create a module stub
 01:55
02:01 benabik joined
JimmyZ pmichaud: player.ku6cdn.com/default/live/webl....swf?p=613 and player.ku6cdn.com/default/live/webl....swf?p=742 02:06
02:24 whiteknight left 02:28 Chat7788 joined 02:30 [Coke] left 02:32 [Coke] joined 02:34 Chat7788 left 02:52 donri left 03:00 JimmyZ left
pmichaud don't seem to be able to view the video :-/ 03:06
03:13 JimmyZ joined
JimmyZ \o jnthn is talking Perl 6, here is live video conference.perlchina.org/bjpw2011/l...gshan.html 03:14
03:19 jaldhar joined 03:23 Su-Shee_ joined 03:24 kst left 03:25 kst joined, Su-Shee left 03:31 bkolera joined
pmichaud I'm not able to see the video :( 03:36
I'm guessing it must be blocked/filtered somewhere. 03:37
03:43 Bzek joined
Tene also 03:46
JimmyZ well, it's over now 03:49
03:50 kaare_ joined 03:54 thou joined 04:16 perlhack joined
perlhack hi all 04:16
i again come to here
dalek ast: a14ba49 | pmichaud++ | S (5 files):
Fudge and fix tests for rakudo master (ng branch). That branch will

a while.
perlhack The China workshop is startting 04:17
JimmyZ are you there? 04:21
perlhack no 04:22
I am in home
JimmyZ Did you see video?
perlhack video bad 04:23
JimmyZ 还好吧 04:24
perlhack I here do not support the Chinese 04:25
JimmyZ doesn't know what perlhack want to express 04:27
perlhack hah .This is client IRC not support the Chinese 04:30
JimmyZ then try chatzilla 04:33
perlhack have client ? 04:34
JimmyZ yep 04:36
dalek kudo: 72d158a | pmichaud++ | build/Makefile.in:
Peg spectest to a specific revision, since they're starting to target the nom branch.
perlhack 3q 04:37
dalek ast: a643435 | pmichaud++ | S (2 files):
Undo rakudo temporary fudges for master.
 04:39
perlhack i want to know you 04:48
05:07 Mowah joined
thou hello, #perl6 05:35
05:37 drbean left
perlhack hello thou 05:50
nice to meet you
thou hi, perlhack 05:51
05:51 daniel-s joined
thou perlhack: are you at the perl conference in beijing? 05:51
perlhack yes! but I didn't go to perl conference. 05:53
thou oh. did you go yesterday? 05:55
i thought i saw you say that you were there
05:57 perlhack left
thou hmmm, maybe that sentence was too hard to parse. :-) 05:57
05:59 perlhack joined
perlhack hi thou 05:59
i did not here
thou :-)
ok, so you are at hime
*home 06:00
perlhack yes i was at home
i have no money to go by car.
so.i was at home
thou is public transportation (bus, train, etc.) an option where you live? 06:01
i live in the country, and we do not have any public transportation. 06:02
that is one bad thing about where I live.
i like to ride the bus and the train.
perlhack all have .but i have no a little money
thou ah 06:03
are you in school (university)?
or are you looking for work?
i hope i am not being rude 06:04
just curious.
perlhack i have worked
i have money to train the 06:06
so i do not have
i want all the money left training Perl 06:09
Perl training in 06:10
Perl training in China is very expensive
>:O 06:11
06:11 envi joined
JimmyZ bjpw is a free training 06:12
perlhack what mean "bjpw"
JimmyZ perl conference in beijing 06:13
that is, today
perlhack yes .i.e.
jnthn alreay there 06:14
already
06:16 bkolera left
thou perlhack: well, i can tell that you want to study and learn, so i'm sure you will get there. 06:16
JimmyZ \o jnthn is talking now. conference.perlchina.org/bjpw2011/l...china.html 06:19
moritz the stream doesn't show up here :( 06:22
JimmyZ that's bad
thou not here either
JimmyZ: what does the text say in this picture? it is a screenshot of the feed viewer: postimage.org/image/al58c1us/ 06:24
perlhack thanks for all
06:24 jaldhar left
perlhack Are you expecting me ? 06:24
stream equal to "rivers" ? 06:26
beekor heehee stream equal to pushing and getting video/audio
the signal flows like a river does. 06:27
perlhack oh! i understand now
thanks
JimmyZ I asked them, why you guys can't see it
perlhack beekor,
thou JimmyZ: ok, thanks 06:28
moritz nom leaks memory like a leaky cauldron
thou although i need to go to bed
so i will say good night to you all 06:29
good *, #perl6
perlhack dream Well for thou
thou thank ou, perlhack!
06:29 thou left
perlhack Hey Hey 06:29
i know a joke 06:31
06:32 jaldhar joined 06:34 Mowah left, araujo left
pmichaud (memory leak) ... yes, I wonder if the return continuations might cause that. 06:34
but it could be a number of things, I suspect.
moritz times for 201x201 mandelbrot: nom: 3 minutes; master: 16 minutes 14 seconds 06:39
pmichaud \o/ 06:43
moritz writes a blog post 06:44
pmichaud and we still have more optimizations to go :) 06:45
moritz rakudo: say (16 + 14/60) / 3 06:46
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«5.41111111111111␤»
06:52 dolmen joined
dolmen in which source file are ranges implemented in Rakudo? 06:53
06:54 zby_home joined
Util is back home from YAPC::NA, but will wait until morning to backscroll. 06:54
pmichaud dolmen: src/core/Range.pm 06:55
dolmen: which branch, master or nom?
dolmen I just wanted to see how it changed since I hacked it in june 2008 06:58
pmichaud be sure to look at the nom branch version, then. it's the most recent/up-to-date
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...e/Range.pm
it still needs some methods (e.g., for WhateverCode and similar arguments) 06:59
dalek kudo/nom: 4434d03 | pmichaud++ | src/binder/types.c:
Change types.c so that RPAs come back as Parcel instead of Array.
 07:05
07:07 envi left 07:19 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee 07:24 firefoxchic left 07:29 tylercurtis left, tylercurtis joined 07:31 bkolera joined 07:37 lue joined 07:57 molaf__ left
moritz github.com/moritz/perlgeek.de/blob...is-nom.txt # blog post preview 07:57
comments welcome 07:58
07:58 bkolera1 joined, bkolera left
tadzik good morning #perl6 07:58
perlhack good morning 07:59
tadzik,
i was here all the afternoon 08:00
moritz \o tadzik
perlhack \o
moritz off to take a shower. Will publish the blog post when I come back unless soembody has suggestions to improve it :-) 08:01
perlhack tadzik:what nationnality 08:02
lue moritz: good post [what are 00 primitives though?] 08:03
goodnight all o/ [I really need to stop being awake until 1 in the morning... it's so much fun though.] 08:04
tadzik perlhack: I'm Polish, it's barely 10 AM here
perlhack haha Polish is very nice place 08:06
tadzik:
I like Polish
tadzik I assume you mean Poland :) It's quite nice, yes 08:07
08:07 rokoteko left
tadzik and if you like Polish, you may like to speak words like chrząszczyrzewoszyce :) 08:08
perlhack tadzik:Poland it's quite nice
Oh! haha i just say it 08:09
what do you leaning English?
08:10 Aridai joined
perlhack tadzik 08:11
I think your English is very good.
08:17 pamera left
perlhack =-O 08:20
tadzik perlhack: how did I learn English? Well, I just used it a lot :) 08:24
08:30 mj41 joined, araujo joined
perlhack i learn form you 08:30
tadzik,
JimmyZ moritz++, great post 08:33
08:37 Trashlord joined
jnthn hi from bjpw :) 08:38
tadzik hello jnthn! 08:39
jnthn has given his two talks...then just thrown together a lightning talk :)
...which I give soon :)
tadzik oh, I overslept :P
jnthn :P
moritz perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/how-fast-is-nom.html # now published 08:41
jnthn reads
perlhack give someone a big hand for jnthn 08:42
JimmyZ jnthn++, I saw your talks online
tadzik how faster is JSON? :)
moritz nom: say 'a' ~~ /a/ 08:44
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«too many positional arguments: 3 passed, 1 expected␤current instr.: 'nqp;Perl6;Actions;block_closure' pc 21687 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:7040)␤»
jnthn moritz: Thanks for testing. That is encouraging.
moritz jnthn: indeed
jnthn moritz: That is one of the cases that will hugely benefit from inlining, I suspect.
JimmyZ: Hope they were interesting. :)
moritz jnthn: I must admit that I thought of that benchmark when I chose which Complex ops I wanted to optimize first :-) 08:45
jnthn :-)
08:47 envi joined
moritz I'll now benchmark nom but without those optimized ops 08:47
JimmyZ jnthn: It's very interesting 08:48
moritz I'm curious if there's a significant difference
jnthn Me too
JimmyZ jnthn: how many people in the room ? 08:50
jnthn Hmm...earlier today was quite full
JimmyZ Hehe
jnthn Between 50 and 100
Probably closer to 100.
JimmyZ they said about 90 08:51
jnthn Yeah, I think there were this morning
Seems some have gone home before lightning talks
JimmyZ jnthn: many people is looking live video online 08:52
jnthn cool :)
JimmyZ hehe 08:53
08:53 Aridai left
JimmyZ s/looking/watching/ 08:53
jnthn is 2 slots away in the lightning talks :)
08:54 perlhack left
JimmyZ what your lightning talk talks about? 08:54
I didn't watch it
jnthn JimmyZ: Will be about operators
JimmyZ: Will happen in 5-10 mins :)
It's not too late to watch ;) 08:55
JimmyZ oh 08:56
08:56 drbean joined
JimmyZ doesn't have headset now 08:57
jnthn ah 08:58
ooh, I'm next :) 08:59
jnthn hopes he can do this in 5 mins
They actually have a gong :)
25 slides. 5 mins. What could possibly go wrong? 09:00
tadzik fingerache
jnthn :P
tadzik remember: 12 seconds, click, 12 seconds, click 09:01
JimmyZ yes, they have one
09:14 perlhack joined
JimmyZ jnthn++ , awesome lightning talk about awesome operators 09:15
moritz how long did he take?
JimmyZ about 5 mins ? 09:16
yes, 5 mins
09:17 Kivutarrr joined
jnthn yes, did it in 5 :) 09:21
just
:)
moritz: Do we have any of the transcendentals back yet? 09:22
jnthn guesses the spectests for those will run some times faster on nom ;)
moritz nom: say 3.14e0.sin 09:23
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0.00159265291648683␤»
jnthn ah, nice
Didn't notice any spectests running for those.../
moritz right, they don't run yet 09:24
though I haven't investigated why
might get to that later today
jnthn k
09:25 JimmyZ left
moritz $ /perl6 t/spec/S32-trig/sin.t 09:25
Could not find sub &DYNAMIC
jnthn phenny: tell pmichaud can "* array parameters bind as containers" diesappear in spectests now?
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
09:25 JimmyZ joined
jnthn phenny: tell pmichaud can "* array parameters bind as containers" diesappear in *nommap* now? D'oh... 09:26
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
tadzik jnthn: ready for some SymbolTable guidance?
jnthn tadzik: It's about end up day here, so may have to vanish soon
But can try :)
tadzik oh, I see
jnthn moritz: ouch 09:27
perlhack ouch
HeyHey
moritz btw the non-boxing complex op do speed up the mandelbrot thing significantly
without them: 4.5 minutes. With: 3 minutes
jnthn nice 09:28
but even without them it's still significant
moritz so, it's quite a worthwhile experience
aye
tadzik so, my plan for today is: push the pod blocks into an array one after another, then at END time of Actions.pm or somewhere push this array to the SymbolTable. Would that last thing be anything more fancy than $*ST.install_package_symbol()?
moritz 16 -> 4.5
perlhack i also aye
moritz tadzik: will be less trivial than that 09:29
jnthn tadzik: Bit trickier :)
tadzik I'm astonished
I'm confused
jnthn What do you cactually need to install?
Also, why package?
*actually 09:30
tadzik well, it should be per-file actually
jnthn So, lexical in UNIT, I suspect.
tadzik and I cactually need to install an array holding a bunch of Pod::Blocks
jnthn OK
moritz tadzik: so far the serialization can handle two cases: 1) primitives and 2) objects that can be constructed as TypObject.new(<supported things>)
jnthn 3) anyuthing else you teach it :)
tadzik oh, less trivial
now I see 09:31
jnthn It's not really serialization per se
It's kinda cheating :)
tadzik oh, ok
so I'll need to implement that?
jnthn But anyway, yes, you can do what you're after.
Will just need a little more effort :)
Each block you construct needs to go into the SC
Then the array canbe done with the typeobject.new case. 09:32
tadzik SC? 09:33
jnthn serialization context
tadzik . o O ( SymbolCable )
ok
jnthn Like a signautre has a bunch of parameters
We add each Parameter object to the SC, then make the Signature out of them.
Sounds like you want to do similarish. 09:34
tadzik so I get a signature full of Pod::Blocks, right?
jnthn array 09:35
But it's similar approach I menat
Not similar code.
tadzik mhm
jnthn I suggest you keep an (NQP) array of all the pod blocks you construct 09:36
tadzik Yes, I'll need that. That's the thing I'll expose
jnthn Then you can use the type object case with Array and pass the (flattend) list of pod blocks.
No
You expose a Perl 6 array.
tadzik ah, ok
jnthn You can install_lexical_symbol it into UNIT 09:37
($*UNIT)
tadzik ok. So I pass an existing NQP array to an Array constructor and install_lexical_symbol that?
I still don't see much difference than from the first idea 09:38
perlhack ..
jnthn tadzik: Yeah, but you'd have added all the POD block objects through the SC also 09:39
Every object you make needs to be created via a $*ST.something call
tadzik so I carefully create a signature for the SC, and then, wham! I feed it to an Array
jnthn no 09:40
Signatures are one type of object we construct
You're constructing POD block objects
tadzik yes
when you mean "every object", you mean every single one, recursively?
jnthn Yes
Code objects ahve their signatures added, which in turn have their parameters added, which in turn refer to type objects added to this or a previous SC 09:41
So it's same pattern
But with POD AST nodes 09:42
I suspect once you get the first few to work, the rest will go easily :)
tadzik yeah, I need to wrap my head around it first :)
Code object signatures, that's the blocker part so far. What is the code object here? 09:43
oh, wait, I think I see
that's just an example, right?
jnthn &foo
fYes!!!!
That's what I've been trying to tell you for the last 10 minutes ;)
tadzik so I have Pod Object, which have their @content added, which in turn refer to Pod objects I put there previously 09:44
jnthn Right :)
tadzik yeah :)
Now I need to learn the primitives around that
jnthn :) 09:45
OK, I think I gotta get outta here ;)
bbiab
tadzik o/, thanks!
jnthn :)
tadzik is there any example of the SC usage in the nom tree? 09:49
or nqp tree
perlhack Excuse me.what mean "outta"? 09:53
tadzik out of
that's a short, I d 09:54
on't think it's a formal word :)
perlhack it is the same the "gotta" -> "have got to "?
oh!thanks
09:58 Mowah joined 10:00 george_z0rwell joined 10:02 wamba joined 10:03 Reaganomicon left 10:05 mj41 left 10:07 Chillance left 10:14 MayDaniel joined, awoodland joined 10:16 JimmyZ left 10:19 Mowah left 10:20 tokuhirom left 10:42 whiteknight joined 10:47 am0c left 10:52 Trashlord left 10:58 Trashlord joined 11:05 am0c joined 11:21 JimmyZ joined 11:26 MayDaniel left 11:37 masak joined
masak yaaay! #perl6 + weekend! 11:37
11:44 perlhack left
Kivutarrr :) 11:46
masak it's nice that github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/43...3d532e062f is making Complex math faster -- but will it ever be possible to write things in the original (clearer) way, and then have the decontainerizations and boxings done by the optimizer? 11:47
hm, I guess that's what op inlining will do for us...
11:47 Kivutarrr left 11:48 Kivutarrr joined, Kivutarrr left 11:56 mj41 joined 12:00 awoodland left 12:08 mj41 left 12:10 am0c left 12:22 zby_home left 12:27 am0c joined 12:34 donri joined 12:35 Mowah joined 12:40 masak left
moritz except that it might not be so easy to inline the $thing.re calls 12:42
because those are virtual methods, and can be overridden in subclasses
12:48 lichtkind joined, tokuhirom joined 12:51 donri left
moritz rakudo: say i 12:54
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«0 + 1i␤»
moritz rakudo: say i()
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &i␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Uf9ewmtZKX␤»
12:58 Trashlord left, pernatiy left
moritz std: i 13:00
p6eval std 37a0cdd: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
moritz how should i work? as term:sym<i>? or sub i() ? 13:01
std: i ~~ i
p6eval std 37a0cdd: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
colomon I thought i was a constant? 13:02
moritz std: sub i() { }; i ~~ i
p6eval std 37a0cdd: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
moritz std: sub j() { }; j ~~ j
p6eval std 37a0cdd: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Expecting a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~␤ (to suppress this message, please use space between ~ ~) at /tmp/gBUbwyQNJL line 1:␤------> sub j() { }; j ~~⏏ j␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 122m␤»…
moritz colomon: do you know where it is in master? 13:03
colomon not off the top of my head
moritz can't find it
13:04 kfo_ joined
colomon huh. 13:04
the comments seem to think it's in cheats/constants.pir, but it's not
moritz nom: use Test; is_approx 1, 1+0i, 'works' 13:05
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - works␤# got: 1␤# expected: 1 + 0i␤»
colomon :\
moritz nom: say (1 - (1+0i))
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2 + 0i␤»
moritz oh, I f*cked it up somewhere
nom: say (1 - (-1+0i)) 13:06
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0 + 0i␤»
13:07 kfo left
benabik 1 - -1 == 0? 13:07
colomon no worse than 1 - 1 == 2 13:08
moritz I think I found the bug
colomon moritz: i is defined in core/Cool-num.pm.
13:09 am0c left
moritz colomon: ah, thanks 13:10
I don't think we can (or should) use the same cheat in nom 13:11
I fixed subtraction, and messued up division by the way :/ 13:12
good that complex.t catches it all :-) 13:13
benabik testing++ 13:15
moritz indeed 13:17
13:18 Trashlord joined
JimmyZ \o 13:29
lichtkind hai 13:30
13:30 envi left 13:31 lichtkind left 13:37 benabik left 13:41 envi joined 13:45 Moukeddar joined 13:46 Moukeddar left, bluescreen10 joined 13:54 nebuchadnezzar left 13:55 envi left 13:56 nebuchadnezzar joined 13:58 am0c joined 14:03 drbean left
moritz nom: say (3.14159e0 - 3) 14:04
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«6.14159␤»
moritz nom: say (3.14159e0 - 3).WHAT
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
14:06 Mowah left
moritz finds glaring bugs in noms numeric operators 14:08
dalek kudo/nom-complex-insanity: a5bfdd0 | moritz++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
optimize and fix a few ops. Not correct yet, but compiles
 14:09
kudo/nom-complex-insanity: 6fe7e6f | moritz++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
fix infix -
kudo/nom-complex-insanity: 316fcb9 | moritz++ | src/core/ (3 files):
more work to get complex.t passing

includes Complex to Num, Int, Rat coercion, Num -> Rat and some bridge methods in Real
kudo/nom-complex-insanity: 1e80b76 | moritz++ | src/core/Numeric.pm:
- should subtract, not add :-)
14:10 Mowah joined, donri joined
moritz nom: say 1e0 + 1 14:12
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2␤»
moritz nom: say 1e0 - 1 14:13
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2␤»
14:21 masak joined
dalek kudo/nom-complex-insanity: a425e09 | moritz++ | src/core/Real.pm:
get infix:<-> with two different Real types working
 14:23
pmichaud good morning, #perl6
phenny pmichaud: 09:25Z <jnthn> tell pmichaud can "* array parameters bind as containers" diesappear in spectests now?
pmichaud: 09:26Z <jnthn> tell pmichaud can "* array parameters bind as containers" diesappear in *nommap* now? D'oh...
pmichaud yes, it can disappear. 14:24
masak morning, pm. 14:25
14:27 wamba left
Trashlord hey 14:30
14:31 Kivutarrr joined
masak ahoj Trashlord 14:34
Trashlord how's it going?
dalek kudo/nom-complex-insanity: 2c0fd1c | moritz++ | src/core/Num.pm:
fix Num.Rat
14:36 envi joined 14:40 PacoLinux_ joined, wamba joined, PacoLinux left 14:41 Kivutarrr left
dalek kudo/nom: a5bfdd0 | moritz++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
optimize and fix a few ops. Not correct yet, but compiles
 14:41
kudo/nom: 6fe7e6f | moritz++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
fix infix -
kudo/nom: 316fcb9 | moritz++ | src/core/ (3 files):
more work to get complex.t passing

includes Complex to Num, Int, Rat coercion, Num -> Rat and some bridge methods in Real
kudo/nom: 1e80b76 | moritz++ | src/core/Numeric.pm:
- should subtract, not add :-)
kudo/nom: a425e09 | moritz++ | src/core/Real.pm:
get infix:<-> with two different Real types working
kudo/nom: 2c0fd1c | moritz++ | src/core/Num.pm:
fix Num.Rat
kudo/nom: e51937b | moritz++ | src/core/ (4 files):
Merge branch 'nom-complex-insanity' into nom
kudo/nom: 6518be4 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
another passing test file
masak Trashlord: it's nice that it's the weekend. :) I find I need weekends lots more since I started working full-time. 14:42
Trashlord: how're you?
Trashlord kinda bored around here, think I'm gonna move to Finland soon 14:43
masak Trashlord: where are you currently?
also, what does "bored" mean? :) 14:44
Trashlord currently I reside in Israel
and bored means that I don't feel like I can really develop any further here
and that I have become almost comfortably numb
14:44 envi left
masak oh! 14:44
Trashlord I must break out of this
masak well, moving sounds reasonable then. 14:45
Trashlord yes
masak Trashlord: if you move to Finland, we can visit each other and have hackathons :)
Trashlord haha, yeah
I'd be like 30 minutes away from you by plane
masak is that under the assumption that I'm still in the middle of Sweden? because nowadays I'm in the south. 14:46
working in the same startup as jnthn. (we're hiring.)
Trashlord well, I wish to move to northern Finland, actually 14:47
or at least somewhere down the middle, like Oulu
I heard Oulu has a great university, with a good Computer Science department
masak Finland seems nice overall. and yes, I keep hearing good things about the school system. (though probably more about grade school.) 14:48
Trashlord I don't have a high school diploma, though 14:49
14:54 Kivutarrr joined 14:56 perlhack joined 15:00 perlhack left
jnthn evenin' 15:03
Su-Shee masak: germany makes pilgrimages to the finnish school system since they invented this european comparison thing.. 15:04
JimmyZ \o jnthn, you had another program today night?
jnthn JimmyZ: Yeah, went for dinner with some of the bjpw folks :) 15:05
JimmyZ \o/
some guy went to bjpw only for your talks ;) 15:06
jnthn Wow :) 15:07
15:07 wamba left
jnthn I hope he enjoyed them! :) 15:07
15:07 wamba joined
JimmyZ yes, he replied 15:08
jnthn :)
JimmyZ very professional, he said ;) 15:09
masak jnthn++
jnthn masak! 15:10
JimmyZ JimmyZ: flw， jnthn 的演讲你感觉怎么样？ flw: 挺好 ,很专业
呵呵
jnthn :) 15:12
jnthn sees moritz++ has been patching :) 15:15
15:21 Trashlord left 15:23 Trashlord joined 15:25 envi joined
spetrea pfff 15:31
Bucharest is extremely boring overall 15:32
15:34 cooper joined 15:36 wamba left 15:38 envi left 15:40 Kivutarrr left 15:49 perlhack joined, envi joined
perlhack hi all 15:50
masak hi, perlhack.
perlhack i quietly to the.
masak sorry?
perlhack hola masak 15:51
masak ("i quietly to the." that was not a full sentence)
you can't end a sentence with "the".
perlhack Needless to say "I apply" in a poem
ouch! 15:52
thanks
masak
masak:thanks,i understand now
i quietly to the here...
hm....
masak "I came back, quietly", perhaps? 15:53
instead of "I again come to here" (which is wrong), you can use either of "I'm back", "I'm here again", "I came back", or "Hello again".
JimmyZ or just say 'o' 15:54
perlhack wasai
very very very very thanks 15:55
masak
you are my teacher.
masak phenny: "有很多方法可以用英语打招呼。"?
phenny masak: "There are many ways to say hello in English." (zh-CN to en, translate.google.com)
jnthn "< masak> you can't end a sentence with "the"" - oh the irony! 15:56
masak jnthn: use/mention dichotomy. :P
JimmyZ jnthn: where is your ppt? 16:00
masak yeah! the people demand slides!
jnthn JimmyZ: ah, thanks for reminder...I upload :)
masak JimmyZ++ 16:01
JimmyZ yes, some people demand that
masak virtually everyone, I'd say. like, 93% or so. 16:02
the thing about making up statistics on the spot: it's so easy! it takes, like, 5% of the work of actually taking the trouble to check something. 16:03
cpanm++ # all I ever wanted in a CPAN client 16:09
16:11 perlhack left
JimmyZ the videos can be downloaded on Monday 16:13
pmichaud \o/ videos++
masak it will be a good Monday.
pmichaud afk, lunch. then nom regexes. 16:14
masak .oO( what, like, for dessert? ) 16:15
pmichaud regexes can be very tasty.
JimmyZ .oO( LTM ?)
pmichaud I've probably cooked up more regexes than I care to count.
LTM, not yet, but preparing the way for it.
right now it's more important that we have regexes in nom than that they run LTM. 16:16
but LTM is high on my list, yes.
16:20 galf joined
masak galf: o\ 16:20
er, o/
greeting hand position fail.
galf masak: :)
masak clearly I shouldn't write code today. :) 16:21
JimmyZ galf is the videos provider
masak hugs galf!
galf: 谢谢你! 16:22
JimmyZ if you can't visit live video, blame him :)
masak JimmyZ: I was asleep... :)
JimmyZ hehe
jnthn Not sure it's fair to blame galf for that :) 16:23
masak JimmyZ said I could... :)
jnthn watches his slides slowly upload on glacial FTP connection :)
JimmyZ well, they said, it can be only visited in china 16:24
masak I'm not sure that's galf's fault either...
pmichaud galf++ #videos
galf next monday, i will upload this video to youtube or another online video provider 16:27
thanks everybody for supporting us 16:28
JimmyZ can't visit youtube, due to GFW :( 16:29
galf GFW is great project :) 16:30
masak Youtube is very petty-borgeoise and must be censored!
16:31 daniel-s left
Krunch (it's spelled "petit bourgeois") 16:31
masak Krunch: thank you. 16:32
galf maybe have another good choice
16:32 nebuchadnezzar left
masak I should know how to spell "bourgeois" at this point. I've seen "petty-" in English literature, but I know it comes from "petit". 16:32
jnthn again wonders how you actually pronounce "bourgeois" 16:33
if it's French, then nothing at all like it's written :)
Krunch i wasn't previously aware of the use of "petty" in this context but i find it appropriate 16:34
jnthn: au contraire, if you are a native french speaker the pronounciation almost makes sense for that word :op
masak Krunch: well, I guess "petty" as a word also comes from "petit".
JimmyZ 'night 16:35
16:35 JimmyZ left
jnthn night, JimmyZ o// 16:35
galf gn!
Krunch i can't really think of a way to explain how it's pronounced over irc though
jnthn envi: As a native English speaker, I guess I've got really no standing to complain about other language's spelling systems :)
Krunch wikipedia says buʁʒwa
jnthn cah
I meant Krunch, not envi :)
16:36 nebuchadnezzar joined
jnthn ...those keys aren't even near each other :) 16:36
masak heh, my guess was buʁʃu:ɑ
Krunch masak: wikitionary agrees en.wiktionary.org/wiki/petty#Etymology
16:36 wamba joined
masak Krunch: well... it was a guess, but a fairly safe one :) 16:36
"petty" means "small-minded", so the jump from "petit" is... small :) 16:38
Krunch yeah it makes sense, i just never though about it before
and you sometimes actually use just "petit" in French as you would use "petty" in English 16:39
masak oh!
Krunch « C'est petit. » like "It's petty."
masak Europe is shock-full of these coincidences. by the pidgeon-hole principles, with all those words in all those languages, and only a limited number of meanings, there's bound to be overlap :P
principle*
Krunch although it sounds kind of old style
masak well, so does "small-minded", I think. 16:40
Krunch in french you would rather say a "narrow mind"
also, don't take french lessons from me, i am from Belgium, our French is slightly different in ways :) 16:41
16:41 thou joined
jnthn gah, what was that $_ bug we had the other day... 16:46
nom: $_ = 42; my $x = { say $_ }; $x() 16:47
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
jnthn that'll do.
16:48 Kivutarrr joined 16:50 dolmen left 16:52 zby_home joined
moritz nom: say $_ 16:52
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
16:54 xhacktly joined
masak nom: $_ = 42; { say $_ }() 17:00
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
17:05 thou left 17:06 xhacktly left
dalek kudo/nom: 67fe2fd | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
Fix $_ bug.
 17:08
17:09 xhacktly joined 17:10 noganex_ joined
xhacktly hey guy.. i try to run a litte perl script in rakudo, but i het this; ===SORRY!=== Maformed UTF-8 string. so what does i do wrong or what did i forgot? 17:11
17:11 noganex left
xhacktly guys* 17:11
masak xhacktly: probably you used a non-ASCII character in there.
and it was not encoded right.
moritz rakudo expects is source files to be in UTF-8 17:12
and if it's not, it whines loudly
jnthn that and/or the UTF-8 file contains a BOM.
masak could be something like a » but in Latin-1 instead of UTF-8.
jnthn: somebody set us up it!
jnthn masak: I knew that was coming :P
masak figured someone had to drop that one :P 17:13
jnthn talking of coming... 17:14
jnthn waits for nearly done upload
There!
masak url?
jnthn jnthn.net/articles.shtml has BJPW slides
masak \o/
pmichaud back from nom 17:15
masak haha, insert in middle is 中 17:16
moritz jnthn++ # t/spec/S04-declarations/implicit-parameter.t now passes
pmichaud nom: { $_ = 42 }; say $_; # the other $_ bug
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a non-container␤current instr.: '_block1010' pc 304 ((file unknown):227) (:1)␤» 17:17
pmichaud maybe needs a rebuild.
masak "Hey, more beer!" :P 17:18
moritz evalbot rebuild nom 17:19
p6eval OK (started asyncronously)
moritz nom: say '?' 17:20
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Rebuild in progress␤»
masak jnthn: oh, it was from your material the lots-of-features-in-faded-pastel-colors slide came from!
jnthn: I recreated it for my "Perl 6 excited" talk at FPW.
17:21 lichtkind joined
pmichaud jnthn: btw, I figured out how/where metaops should be generated. 17:22
(haven't implemented it yet -- will do that later) 17:23
kthakore who is perlgeek.de (masak or moritz)
arnsholt That's moritz
masak is strangelyconsistent
kthakore haha
moritz: please tell me there is a 'om' layer in rakudo too! So it can go om nom nom nom nom :P 17:24
kthakore did the jokes ... and now runs away
pmichaud we could rename "ng" to "om" 17:25
masak ॐ
pmichaud so then it's "alpha om nom nom nom nom ..."
masak with out luck, it'll be renamed "OMG"
our* 17:26
jnthn masak: oh, when I saw the features thing in your slides I thought you'd just copied mine!
moritz wonders if he should submit his last blog post to r/programming/
jnthn pmichaud: Nice 17:27
pmichaud: where, ooc?
pmichaud I'm about to write a nom update post on pmthium
jnthn: here's the steps
given a request for a metaoperator like R+=
masak jnthn: conceptually, yes. but I didn't have access to your slide when I did it :)
pmichaud first, look for &infix:<R+=> in the current set of lexical scopes. If found, we use that. 17:28
dalek kudo/nom: fa88a07 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on S32-str/lcfirst.t now that the { $_ = whatever } bug has been fixed.
masak moritz: I think so.
jnthn masak: Hopefully 中 was vaguely suitable for what I used it for :)
17:28 pernatiy joined
pmichaud If &infix:<R+=> isn't found, then we'll install it into the same lexical scope that defines &infix<+=> 17:28
masak jnthn: well, I've never seen it used as a verb... but at least it's related :) 17:29
pmichaud (this could be UNIT-level scope if the module hasn't defined its own &infix:<+=>
moritz colomon: it fixed way more tests... I'll commit after my run finished :-)
pmichaud so basically it's just "search outer lexical scopes for the one that holds the current definition of the base operator, install the metaoperator in that scope) 17:31
s/)/"
masak sounds sane.
pmichaud and we don't go beyond UNIT-level scope (since we can't affect the outer lexical scope of something that has already been compiled)
masak could this be done at parse time?
pmichaud I'm thinking it could be done at compile time, but you have to be sure you get the right lexical operator then. 17:32
colomon moritz: glad to hear it. I just checked the ones I knew had that bug.
masak pmichaud: sure.
moritz can't wait for nom to have as many features as master
pmichaud for the next version I'll likely have it happen at block-entry time.
moritz which is why I hack on it :-) 17:33
pmichaud and deal with compile-time generation a version after that.
moritz LHF: unpolar, cis
pmichaud I should be able to at least refactor metaop generation into a single subroutine in Actions.pm
17:35 envi left
pmichaud in case people missed it in the commit logs, rakudo master is now pegged to a specific spectest revision, so we can hack on spectests without having it affect master. 17:36
17:36 Chillance joined
jnthn pmichaud: sounds sane overall 17:37
17:37 xhacktly left
pmichaud I'm getting a spectest fail in t/spec/S02-literals/numeric.t 17:38
17:38 tokuhirom left
pmichaud nom: { $_ = 42 }; say $_; # the other $_ bug 17:38
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«42␤»
pmichaud \o/ jnthn++
dalek ast: b73e532 | moritz++ | S02-builtin_data_types/ (2 files):
unfudge passing rakudo tests
jnthn pmichaud: I get Parse errors: No plan found in TAP output
(for numeric.t) 17:39
moritz works here
pmichaud same here.
moritz what's the verbose output?
pmichaud (Parse errors: No plan found in TAP output)
jnthn oh
moritz no, if you run it directly
jnthn no bigint lib loaded
pmichaud no bigint lib loaded
moritz huh?
dalek kudo/nom: 16ccf25 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
four more passing test files
 17:40
moritz I didn't know we used any bigint libraries...
jnthn in, er, HLL;Actions;string_to_int!
moritz are you on 32bit?
pmichaud 64bit here
jnthn yes
moritz btw t/spec/S03-metaops/not.t segfaults here 17:41
pmichaud aha
it's because string_to_int was converted from PIR to NQP
which means it's using Integer PMCs instead of an int register
moritz wonders why it works for him, but fails for jnthn++ and pmichaud++
jnthn ah
pmichaud and the Integer PMC tries to promote to bigint
jnthn OK, sleep time here
'night o/
pmichaud perhaps change 17:42
well.... hmm
masak night, jnthn 17:44
dalek ast: 35f40bd | moritz++ | S29-any/isa.t:
refudge isa.t for rakudo
 17:45
pmichaud mul $P112, $P110, $P111
aiiiie
that's.... a big change. :(
masak today's autopun: twitter.com/MooseAllain/status/87081626835763200 17:46
moritz :-) 17:47
pmichaud oh, I guess it isn't.
I thought that nqp (and nqp-rx) always did multiplication in N regs. Guess not.
moritz masak: don't you want to register autopun.org and collect the best ones there? :-) 17:48
masak :)
no, but now I want to register autopun.org... :)
the strange thing about autopuns... they're all pretty much alike. and yet people seem to have an inexhaustible liking for them. 17:50
pmichaud in src/HLL/Actions.pm, change 17:51
$result := $base * $result + $digitval,
to
$result := nqp::add_n(nqp::mul_n($base, $result), $digitval); 17:52
that will force it to use N registers for the multiplication
or, perhaps change
my $result := 0;
to
my $result := 0.0;
masak O.O
pmichaud might have the same effect by putting $result into Float space to begin with.
(or could use 0e0) 17:53
I'll end up fixing all of this when I fix string-to-numeric conversion anyway
so could also fudge the test or remove it from spectest.data until that happens
moritz pmichaud: I'd love to, but since I can't reproduce the error on my machines, it's a bit pointless if I try
pmichaud well, I'm writing the above for anyone who wants to tackle it. I'm kind of preoccupied at the moment. 17:54
moritz ok 17:55
pmichaud also could use --parrot-config="--without-gmp" so that the bigint library doesn't get linked.
er
--parrot-option="--without-gmp" 17:56
18:02 thou joined 18:04 mj41 joined 18:09 bluescreen100 joined
lichtkind jeeeeeeh , its done :) 18:11
18:19 icwiener joined, icwiener left, icwiener joined
masak it is? 18:22
is that good?
lichtkind masak: i hope so, :) 18:23
masak then I hope so too :)
lichtkind i just released 4 article no 2..6 in this 10 days it really made me scream
masak oh! good job!
lichtkind also the one about perl6 just went too final proof 20 min ago
masak: the wx was really hard, in the process i files some 5-6 bugs, had to test any line of code on 2 OS 18:25
wasnt fun anymore
masak: was it you or mberens who tries to build ncurses for parrot? 18:26
i was thinking about gui on perl 6 lately again
FreeTUIT is also a source to take ideas from 18:27
we need a single DBI for all GUI frameworks
i mean interface like DBI
and Prima is also source of inspiration 18:28
18:29 Kivutarrr left
lichtkind we have to use the right defaults like Rebol does, but with more perlish API like freeTUIT and a an own TK as option like Prima that is really fast 18:30
like Tk only beautiful and easier API 18:31
masak lichtkind: yes, I tried to get the ncurses example under Parrot working the other week. 18:32
lichtkind masak: you think its gonne work?
18:33 whiteknight left
lichtkind i like the idea but the amount of work scares me totally away, i think i have to figure out how to achieve it in reusable steps 18:33
masak lichtkind: it used to work. I reported a problem I was having (due to bitrot), and last I heard, Parrot people are working on fixing it. 18:34
maybe they've even fixed it already, I haven't checked back.
a teacher from France sent me an email with benchmarkings for the Ackermann function in Perl 5 vs Rakudo. I'm compiling up nom currently to send him benchmarkings for that. 18:46
if it's of interest to anyone, I can gist the p5/p6 versions of testing the Ackermann function that he sent along.
tadzik jnthn: are you arond? 18:53
or even around?
oh, sleep time 18:54
Anyone fluent with SerializationContext?
18:57 Kivutarrr joined
masak for programs that print a lot of things, there seems to be fewer visible GC hiccups with nom that with master. 18:58
pmichaud loliblogged: pmthium.com/2011/07/02/more-nom-fea...an-master/
masak pmichaud++
tadzik pmichaud: could you give me a hand with SymbolTable and SerializationContext? 18:59
masak with the Ackermann function, I'm seeing a ~50% speedup in nom. \o/ 19:00
masak writes that to the French teacher 19:01
pmichaud tadzik: I don't know much about those, sorry. jnthn++ is your guy. 19:02
(also I have a phone call to make for a while)
tadzik ENOJNTHN :) 19:04
I guess I'll have to wait for him to get back to my TZ
lue hello universe! o/
19:06 Bzek left
lue I almost feel like I should be making an Obligatory nom Post™ too :) . 19:08
masak hellue! 19:10
hm, inlining won't help us speed up Ackermann much at all. :/
by the way, so far the biggest slowness I found in that script was a 'say' (for debugging purposes) in the hot path. it ate 80% of the time in the script. (but the same in Perl 5 only ate 15%) 19:11
pmichaud url? 19:16
also note that 'say' is a bit more complex now than before :)
masak I'll take that as a "yes" to the "if it's of interest to anyone" above :) 19:17
hold on, I'll just send the email, then I'll make a gist of it.
pmichaud I didn't see that :)
ah, there it is. Yes, I'm interested. 19:19
masak messages not getting across properly seem to be the theme of that whole email thread. his complaint, now that I understand it, is "it's slow!"
that's from a guy sitting in the audience of a talk I gave with the message "it's slow, but it's getting faster".
pmichaud There's also: rosettacode.org/wiki/Ackermann_function#Perl_6
masak seems to be separately developed code. 19:20
pmichaud the RC example looks to me like it might benefit from inlining
especially the operators 19:21
frettled masak: Yes, but, you know it goes to 11
11, man!
pmichaud++ - nice blog entry, good to see the progress summary for nom! 19:22
pmichaud frettled: thanks
I'm trying to (finally) get myself into the habit of regular blog postings. If that means summaries, so be it. :)
I'll probably need a blog post soon about Parcel, List, and LoL 19:23
lichtkind thou: haii
19:23 kaare_ left
lue I just realized using <?{Perl6::Grammar.parse($0, :rule<fatarrow>)}> when it's capturing (\H+) doesn't work (e.g. "a => b"), so I tried this: 19:23
rakudo: say "a => b" ~~ /(\N+) <?{Perl6::Grammar.parse($0, :rule<fatarrow>)}>/ 19:24
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«Contextual $*QSIGIL not found␤ in <anon> at line 1586:src/Perl6/Grammar.pm␤ in 'Cool::match' at line 2684:src/gen/core.pm␤ in 'Regex::ACCEPTS' at line 6418:src/gen/core.pm␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/mu8wNVnf8F␤»
lue Is it my fault, or is that a bug?
pmichaud well, it's going to parse it as if the b is a subroutine call 19:27
which means it wants to find a lot more context than exists there.
(which is where the request for $*QSIGIL is likely coming from)
lue so maybe fatarrow isn't the right rule (trying "'a' => 'b'" didn't work either) 19:29
masak email conversation about Ackermann: gist.github.com/1061562 19:30
pmichaud that's not a fat arrow, it's an &infix:<=>>
try a => 'b', maybe
lue that didn't work either
I'm trying to match Pod configuration options in the form a => b (see github.com/lue/SUPERNOVA/blob/4ce4.../config.t) 19:32
pmichaud masak++ that response is awesome
I'd love for it to make it into a public post somewhere
masak I could blog about it. 19:33
pmichaud the apples-to-oranges point is very well made.
masak thanks.
pmichaud and, tbh, I'm extremely surprised and pleased that we're only 3x perl 5 19:34
I would have never guessed that.
masak not sure how well that holds up for larger $m and $n.
people are encouraged to investigate :)
pmichaud it might also be useful to benchmark against the RC version, which (I think) avoids the return statements. 19:35
masak also, I didn't want to write it, but I didn't get a factor of 16 between Rakudo and Perl 5. 19:36
(from his numbers, that is)
pmichaud (return is much faster in nom than in master, but so far it's still more costly than simply falling off the bottom)
masak I got 674.
pmichaud 16 seems small to me, too 19:37
I would've expected much higher.
masak and he couldn't have meant "16!", either :P
pmichaud I'll be happy to write up a blog post if we can get permission from the prof
masak I'll write and ask him.
pmichaud I could also write up the post as being an anonymous contribution :) 19:38
(as you've made it here)
masak that might be better in any case.
anyway, from 674 to 3... I like that :) 19:39
jnth++ pmichaud++ 19:40
pmichaud also, I think his calculation of "16x" is wrong -- his numbers show 674 also.
(maybe that's what you're referring to)
masak that's what I meant.
my numbers give 1289. 19:41
pmichaud what version of rakudo, ooc?
masak looks
pmichaud Rskudo Star 2011.04 is still running with the slower gc
so there's a cost there, as well.
masak 2011.05-21-g7175e54 built on parrot 3.5.0 RELEASE_3_5_0-13-g19bbdee
19:41 am0c left
masak that's my version. I don't know his. 19:42
could well be R*.
pmichaud but yes, from 674 to 3 is excellent. 19:43
I'd love to go back and reply to the post last year that said "You'll never get a 95% speed improvement EVER"
masak :D 19:46
19:47 rgrau joined
masak it's easier to get a good speed improvement if you start out *really* slow! 19:47
pmichaud: hey! it's fine to fix RT-reported bugs in the nom branch, but they can't really be closed until nom merges into master. fair is fair :) 19:55
lue time is guaranteed to give a UTC epoch, correct? 19:56
masak lue: no, POSIX time as an Int.
lue: did you check S32 before asking? I did before replying. 19:57
19:58 pernatiy left
masak lue: hm, maybe "no" should actually be "yes"... :) 19:58
lue: at least if "UTC epoch" and "POSIX time" are the same, which they seem to be. 19:59
lue I know at least on the server I use it returns the "UTC epoch", I was just wondering if it could change if the timezone had a say in it. 20:00
masak it's the "UTC" there that worries me. that's timezone-related. 20:02
but it's been a while since I dabbled in Temporal, so my knowledge is a bit bitrotted.
moritz speaking of which, I guess we have enough features now that porting Temporal to nom should be a LHF-ish task 20:03
lue I'm just worried that the epoch could be measuring a different 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 than the UTC's 20:05
[timekeeping systems seem sometimes more complex than Time itself :P] 20:06
dalek ast: c1ba1c5 | moritz++ | S32-num/complex.t:
start fudging complex.t for nom
 20:07
20:08 Chillance left
pmichaud I don't follow the term "UTC epoch", fwiw. 20:09
lue Now I feel like trying to implement S32::Temporal in nom.
pmichaud I know about "UTC" and "Unix epoch", but not "UTC epoch"
masak lue: no need to implement it, just copy/paste it :)
lue I mean that as: the number of seconds since 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00Z
pmichaud That's the Unix epoch. 20:10
masak ...what S32/Temporal calls the POSIX epoch.
pmichaud POSIX epoch also makes sense there, I think.
20:11 Holy_Cow joined
masak rakudo: class Cow { method low { "moo!" } }; role Holy { method low { "holy " ~ callsame } }; my $holy_cow = Cow.new but Holy; $holy_cow.low 20:13
p6eval rakudo 72d158: ( no output )
masak rakudo: class Cow { method low { "moo!" } }; role Holy { method low { "holy " ~ callsame } }; my $holy_cow = Cow.new but Holy; say $holy_cow.low
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«holy moo!␤»
masak \o/
by the way, my tweet twitter.com/carlmasak/status/86905297368649729 seemed to intrigue people, and it's my most RT'd one ever. 20:15
people do respond well to sensationalism ;) 20:16
pmichaud masak: ummm, in your reply, nom is 30x perl 5, I think.
2.420s versus 0.080 s 20:17
(or are you using different numbers for comparison?)
masak oh um. 20:18
no :/
masak writes a correction to the French prof
pmichaud still, 30x isn't too bad :)
the timings are a bit off there because of the cost of compilation and initialization being included as well
Rakudo's parser (both nom and master) being a lot slower than p5's parser 20:19
masak well, yes.
moritz I need a few forward references to Complex in Real 20:20
masak pmichaud: but that's a cost people will get when they run stuff.
moritz does that mean I have to move Complex to BOOTSTRAP.pm?
pmichaud moritz: no.
first, what's the forward reference you need?
masak moritz: forward references from Real to Complex feel wrong on a philosophical level. :)
moritz pmichaud: method unpolar(Real $mag: Real $angle) {
Complex.new($mag * $angle.cos(Radians),
$mag * $angle.sin(Radians)); 20:21
}
pmichaud at the top of Real.pm, put
class Complex { ... }
that's all you need.
moritz tries
masak that's the standard solution to circular refs in Perl 6, IIUC.
pmichaud correct.
our goal is to move stuff out of BOOTSTRAP.pm, not put more in :) 20:22
masak I once had a rant on p6l where the conclusion basically was to use 'class B { ... }'
pmichaud BOOTSTRAP.pm needs to be as small as possible. Even smaller than that would be better. :) 20:23
20:20 <masak> moritz: forward references from Real to Complex feel wrong on a philosophical level. :) 20:25
I'm surprised you said that after the link you posted yesterday. :-)
(which I very much enjoyed, btw)
(mathematically, Real isa Complex, not vice-versa. :-) 20:27
masak Complex are still (isomorphic to) a superset of Real. Real are simpler, and if there should be references between them, it should be inwards, from Complex to Real.
pmichaud okay, I might buy that. :)
lue what *are* forward references from Real to Complex anyhow? [everytime compiler-talk goes on I feel like I don't know anything :)] 20:28
masak lue: oh, nothing complicated :)
pmichaud lue: there are methods in Real that need to use methods in Complex.
masak lue: it's just references to the Complex type before it has been defined.
pmichaud in this case, the Real.unpolar method has to use Complex.new in order to create its result.
masak lue: ("forward" in the code, that is)
pmichaud but since Complex is defined *after* real, we have a forward reference. 20:29
masak lue: it all comes down to Perl 6 having a one-pass compiler. (as opposed to, say, Java)
lue: which means if the Perl 6 parser hasn't seen a type, even if that type is defined further down in the program, it doesn't know what to do.
s/seen a type/seen the definition of a type/ 20:30
lue ah.
masak rakudo: class A is B {}; class B {} 20:31
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Routine $r, Any :rw($rw)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $pa…
lue [right now I'm compiling nom with Temporal.pm from master in nom's src/core, let's see how that goes]
masak rakudo: sub foo { say ++$i }; my $i = 0; foo; foo; foo; # this unfortunately works, though. shouldn't. 20:32
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
masak nom: sub foo { say ++$i }; my $i = 0; foo; foo; foo
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
masak :(
pmichaud some lexicals get used before they're declared, some don't.
(yes, we need to fix it in the case of scalars.)
masak come again? 20:33
lue is foo not allowed to see $i in that case? or is that an example of forward references? [one that's buggy, apparently]
masak you're saying it's legal for some variables?
pmichaud nom: foo; sub foo { say 42 }; # &foo is used before declared.
masak lue: no, and yes.
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«42␤»
masak pmichaud: oh, oh!
sure.
I didn't conflate "subs" with "lexicals", but of course I should've. 20:34
lue nom: say time;
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1309638899␤» 20:35
masak rakudo: say time.fmt("%x")
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«4e0f8109␤»
masak :)
pmichaud rakudo: say time.fmt('%b')
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«1001110000011111000000100011111␤»
masak imagine a wrist watch showing that. 20:36
"what time is it?" -- "um..."
20:37 djo_ joined
lue For some reason adding Temporal.pm didn't do anything [I'm missing a step, I feel] 20:37
djo_ hello every body !! 20:38
masak djo_: \o
pmichaud probably needs to be added to the Makefile
but for testing, it's far easier to use it as a standalone file
than to have to recompile the core for each minor change
lue just use Temporal then? 20:39
masak djo_: how are you today, sir?
(or madam)
pmichaud I just add my test code to the bottom of Temporal.pm, and run it directly.
although "use Temporal" should probably also work (not sure how well export plays with it)
masak lue: what pmichaud said. it's far easier to develop outside of Rakudo before you're ready to integrate what you've written.
20:39 mj41 left
pmichaud also, Temporal.pm is one of those I want to re-review a bit before accepting it into the core 20:40
moritz btw you can also use lexicals before you declare them, as long as they are later declared in the same block
djo_ can you help me for find good ide for perl with autocmplition code ?
moritz it's just that the parser is supposed to complain
masak djo_: have you checked out Padre?
moritz djo_: vim
well, nearly an IDE :-) 20:41
djo_ no .
moritz rakudo: sub f { eval 'say $x' }; my $x = 5; f
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«5␤»
masak I use vim too, with autocomplete.
moritz perfectly legal Perl 6 code that uses a variable ($x) before it was declared
masak moritz: I don't consider that a forward reference, though.
lue well, right now I can't do $ perl6 from any directory except rakudo/ , so I'll take care of that problem first :) 20:42
masak moritz: since the string isn't code at parse time.
pmichaud $x there is a string con.... masak++
20:42 Holy_Cow left
pmichaud it's not a variable reference until it's compiled at runtime by eval() 20:42
moritz ::('$x') or whatever it's spelled would also work
masak same thing there. 20:43
moritz I guess it depeends on what you mean with "before"
masak you're delaying execution, so it's not forwards anymore.
pmichaud or "variable"
masak or "reference" :)
moritz masak: execution is not delayed
pmichaud my $x = 'class Foo { ... }'; # there's no class declared here.
moritz masak: just compilation
masak moritz: oh, troo.
I meant that.
moritz thought so :-) 20:44
pmichaud my $x = '@a'; # there's no array being used here.
masak rakudo: my $x = 'eval $x'; say eval $x
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 20:45
pmichaud more interesting is something like:
masak rakudo: my $x = 'say "OH HAI"; eval $x'; eval $x
pmichaud rakudo: sub f { eval 'say $x'; }; f(); my $x = 5;
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«(timeout)OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH HAI␤OH H…
rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
moritz pmichaud: but that's wrong, no?
djo_ vim is for linux ,i what about windows ?
masak moritz: why should it be?
pmichaud is it? why?
masak I see nothing wrong with it. 20:46
moritz wait, I'm confusing stuff
masak $x is visible in the scope of f, and hence the eval.
moritz djo_: I use gvim on windows too
masak djo_: I use Linux in a VM on Windows. makes it bearable :)
(but only just)
moritz some variable initializations should be run at INIT time, but I thing it was 'our', not 'my'
*think
pmichaud: just wanted to tell you that I'm very happy to have you back hacking on rakudo 20:47
and discussing
djo_ moritz ,gvim where can i find it ?
pmichaud thanks, I'm glad to be back. I'm having more fun with rakudo/nom than I've had in a loooooong time
masak I wouldn't feel too much sympathy for the programmer who wrote the above and found that the compiler had inlined the variable assignment into INIT or earlier.
pmichaud: what moritz said. nice to have you back. 20:48
djo_: on Google.
djo_: (and a lot of other stuff is on Google as well)
djo_ than masak. 20:49
masak lmgtfy.com/?q=gvim
djo_ thank
masak djo_: autocomplete is made with ^P (if the term is earlier in the file) or ^N (if the term is later in the file) 21:01
moritz or ^Xf for file names 21:03
masak ooh
moritz don't tell me you didn't know that :-)
masak I didn't know that. 21:04
lue makes no comment about his preferred editor emacs...
21:04 bakedb joined
masak lue: I use Emacs too. my preferred IRC client is Emacs-based. 21:04
lue: I blog in Emacs. but I write most of my code in vim.
I think all vim-Emacs flamewars are silly. both are great tools. 21:05
moritz we now pass the first 466 tests in complex.t 21:07
dalek kudo/nom: 14ef250 | moritz++ | src/core/Real.pm:
cis, unpolar
masak \o/ moritz++
lue I haven't bothered with vim much because I like emacs, but I certainly see why some people would fight for it.
masak I don't :) 21:08
moritz porting the rest from master to nom is really LHF 21:09
lue [the psychotherapist is fun to mess with though] 21:10
masak lue: have you seen www.compapp.dcu.ie/~humphrys/eliza.html ?
lue Is anyone else having trouble running perl6 from a directory other than rakudo/ [nom branch]? I ran make and make install, but it throws: "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'Perl6/Grammar.pbc' 21:11
moritz 'make install' is know to not work yet
lue that explains it :) 21:12
pmichaud nom: say 3.sin
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0.141120008059867␤»
masak who starts in Connect 4? X or O?
21:12 soh_cah_toa joined
moritz X typically 21:12
masak thanks.
(writing an edublog post)
moritz Connect 4 is boring. It's solved :-)
masak well, so is the fourth problem of my contest, and it wasn't boring :P 21:13
moritz :-)
lue masak: I have not seen that page (although I have visited rinkworks.com extensively, which that page links to for the dialect translators) 21:14
moritz rakudo: say (3 + 4i).log
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«1.6094379124341 + 0.927295218001612i␤»
masak for every edublog post I make, it feels like I could write a "what did I not tell you (but wanted to)" section. 21:15
maybe I'll do that for the PDF version.
moritz oh, master uses the parrot Complex PMC to calculate the log of a complex number 21:16
that is... somewhat disappointing :-)
masak why?
did you want to whip out the Taylor series? :)
moritz nope :-)
pmichaud my Mu $complex := pir::new__Ps('Complex'); # should work
moritz but you can awrite it as A * exp(i phi), and log(A * exp(i phi)) = log(A) + log( exp(i phi)) = log(a) + i phi 21:17
pmichaud not a long-term solution, but works for now :)
(the Complex PMC)
you're welcome to write it with a formula or other solution, too :) 21:18
lue nom time, afk
21:24 lichtkind left
masak the bigger the example games, the more features I find I have to go back and retroactively explain in older posts. 21:24
21:27 pothos left, y3llow left 21:29 y3llow joined, pothos_ joined 21:30 pothos_ is now known as pothos 21:36 djo_ left 21:42 Psyche^ joined 21:43 bakedb left 21:45 dual left 21:46 Patterner left, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 21:47 dual joined
masak somewhat surprisingly, the only really complicated code in Connect 4 is checking for a winning move. 21:47
I'd love it if someone came up with a simpler way to do this after I publish the post.
I've currently exceeded 100 lines of game code (including blank lines), which is more than I expected. 21:48
21:50 Holy_Cow joined 21:55 pernatiy joined 22:01 rgrau` joined
masak oh right, Perl 6 is the language where a comma follows the block in a map :P 22:01
22:02 rgrau left 22:07 Chillance joined
jlaire ooooh, Connect4 22:12
it's a great game 22:13
masak glad you like it :)
jlaire :)
using an efficient bitboard rep and checking for straights with bitops in C was lots of fun
masak ooh 22:14
not going to do that here, but that does sound like lots of fun.
I'm trying to make good use of junctions, though.
jlaire of course it has the downside that I can't understand the code any more ;) 22:15
masak they're what syntactically took the place of bitops in Perl 6 :)
I'm aiming for some degree of understandability, too.
jlaire there are some interesting variations that are not solved yet, for example: you need a straight-of-5 to win, and put *two* disks on your turn (except the very first) 22:16
mathw I like understandability
lue unnom time. hello Mu o/
jlaire understandability is good
masak I like it too. I like putting good names on things.
jlaire I guess masak's blog post is not about solving connect4 :)
masak no, it's about playing it :) 22:17
jlaire writing some low level hacks cleanly is challenging
masak yes.
I find that's when I really prefer one-letter or two-letter variable names.
because longer names just get in the way.
lue trying to use Temporal (the Temporal.pm file from master) in nom gives me this: arglist case of use not yet implemented at line 2, near "" 22:18
masak lue: try to remove 'use v6' at the top. 22:19
lue: or do you think it's line 2 of your script?
22:20 Kivutarrr left
lue well, I just copied Temporal.pm (not too surprised it didn't work), and line 2 is a blank line 22:25
line 3 has the beginning of the Dateish role, line 1 has use v6; 22:26
masak it sounds from the error message that a 'use' statement is involved. 22:27
yep. src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:466 says that this error occurs if you do 'use Module something_more_here'. 22:29
lue I open up the perl6 REPL and type use Temporal (commenting out use v6; didn't help)
masak urgh; don't use the REPL for this :/ 22:30
that's just asking for trouble.
22:32 pernatiy left
lue sorry. Running use Temporal; from perl6 -e and from a file gets me this error: "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'Temporal.pbc' [and then a backtrace] 22:33
masak that indicates that you'd need to compile Temporal.pm to a .pbc file. 22:35
I haven't used modules in nom enough to understand if and why that's really necessary.
suggest waiting for pmichaud or equiv for advice.
lue OK. It's not critical for me right now anyhow. 22:36
masak thanks for investigating this far.
22:40 perlhack joined
perlhack hi all 22:40
good morning.
masak good morning, perlhack.
perlhack masak haha 22:41
lue All the excitement of nom reminds me of ng :) [which I joined #perl6 during the tail end of] I feel like I should start getting involved in nom before Rakudo becomes to complex to get involved in again :) 22:42
masak perlhack: yes, I come here often :)
lue: I feel almost the same. it looks like a lot of the really fun development will take place after nom has landed -- constant folers and optimizers and whatnot -- and I want to dive in before that happens, so I'm not completely bewildered when it does. 22:43
perlhack Hey Hey ,i came back more ofen 22:45
often
masak
masak perlhack: yes, you do :)
my connect-4 game now works. 22:46
I'll throw it up as a gist while I blog, so that people can comment on it if they want.
Connect 4 the game: gist.github.com/1061743
perlhack masak my Egnlish is right? 22:47
english 22:48
masak perlhack: looks OK.
perlhack: "I cOme back more often" (not cAme) is probably what you want, but that's details :)
perlhack: "come" is in the present, "came" is in the past 22:49
perlhack Oh !thanks *JOKINGLY* 22:50
masak you're welcome. 22:51
and leave off the "*JOKINGLY*" when you're saying thanks. people might think you're being sarcastic :)
perlhack I learn English every day for better learning English
masak it's better to do a ":)" or a ":-)" or a ":-P" 22:52
or like this ^^
if you want to show you're Asian :)
jlaire (I sometimes do this to avoid ambiguous close-parens: ^^) 22:54
perlhack masak, i didn't mean 22:55
masak perlhack: I know you didn't. :) 22:56
perlhack very thanks
masak
masak perlhack: just warning you that it can be misunderstood.
jlaire: convenient!
perlhack I understand now :-) 22:58
Simile
masak well, "smiley", but yes :) 22:59
perlhack Smiley ,yes yes
masak a "simile" is a kind of comparison, using works like "like" or "as" or "than".
TimToady
.oO(a smiley is like a simile)
 23:00
23:00 jon_______ joined
jlaire rakudo: $_ = 42; say 23:00
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«␤»
23:00 sjn left
masak the way to remember the difference between simile and metaphor: simile -- "men are like pigs". metaphor -- "men are pigs". 23:00
jlaire: two things:
jlaire: Perl 6 no longer defaults to $_ in many places. including 'say'. 23:01
TimToady std: say
p6eval std 37a0cdd: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/r3BStr0_na line 1:␤------> say⏏<EOL>␤ok 00:01 117m␤»
masak jlaire: using a bare 'say' without any arguments is illegal in Perl 6 (as TimToady just showed)
but Rakudo has regressed in recognizing it.
alpha: say
jlaire oh, thanks
p6eval alpha : OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 10, near ""␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2593)␤»
perlhack you are very good person 23:02
jlaire masak: I was just wondering about your usage of 'say ""'
perlhack masak
jlaire but I see it's correct now
masak I personally think it should be allowed and that it should mean 'say ""'
but TimToady cares about the poor Perl 5 developers, I guess :)
TimToady maybe someday
23:02 drbean joined
masak yes, there's a point to being conservative. 23:02
TimToady about the same time we relax the need for \- in a character class, in about 20 years or so 23:03
masak aye.
jlaire I always just make '-' the first or last character
TimToady that one's a bit harder actually, since we have to retrain everyone, not just Perl 5 programmers 23:04
perlhack We play happy,i need to eat
TimToady std: /<[-abc]>/
p6eval std 37a0cdd: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady that works too
std: /<[a-c]>/
p6eval std 37a0cdd: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of - as character range; in Perl 6 please use .. at /tmp/XOvTQHkg4o line 1:␤------> /<[a-c⏏]>/␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
jlaire rakudo: repeat until my $x { ++$x } say $x
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "repeat unt"␤» 23:05
jlaire rakudo: repeat until defined my $x { $x = 1 } say $x
masak jlaire: semicolon.
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "repeat unt"␤»
jlaire rakudo: repeat until defined my $x { $x = 1 }; say $x
p6eval rakudo 72d158: OUTPUT«1␤»
jlaire ty
masak jlaire: optional in Perl 5, required in Perl 6.
yw
TimToady well, required there
jlaire that 'my' is a bit disturbing, my first guess was it's loca to the block
TimToady nope
jlaire local
masak that's also Perl 5 think :P
TimToady my only every scopes to a real block (or file, or eval string) 23:06
the only thing that can leak out is a formal parameter name
s/every/ever/
jlaire okay
masak in pointies? 23:07
or did you mean something else?
TimToady well, any sig
masak leak out, how?
TimToady leak out to the sig, not to anywhere else
23:07 Holy_Cow left
masak ah, right. 23:08
jlaire masak: it's a standard convention to use A..G for the columns, but that's not important
so you can denote squares with D2 etc.
masak ah, good point.
I think that should be a smallish change.
hm, better not. :)
can always change it later. 23:09
23:09 f00li5h left
jlaire :) 23:09
masak releasing the blog post takes priority now.
jlaire masak: in was_vertical_win(), in the outer 0..$N-1, it'd be more semantically correct to use 0..$HEIGHT-$N 23:13
(similarly for others)
masak jlaire: because of positions outside the board?
jlaire if $HEIGHT is larger, $N-1 doesn't work 23:14
(if $N denotes the length of the required straight)
masak it does.
jlaire hm
masak but I've basically delegated all my outside-of-bounds handling to all_same. 23:15
jlaire the straight might be at $offset 24
masak (now called "uniform" in my code)
jlaire with $HEIGHT 50 and $N 4
masak $offset is never 24, it's only 0..$N-1 23:16
jlaire $N-1 includes a tacit assumption that $HEIGHT-$N <= $N-1
masak unless I'm much mistaken, I think you're wrong.
jlaire let me raed it again
read, even
masak I started out writing a lot of bounds checking, like I usually do.
then I went "this sucks", and now I only rely on all out-of-bounds indexings returning Any(). 23:17
jlaire oh, I thought that sub was searching the whole board for straights
now I see it takes parameters :)
masak no, it's basically taking the last move and iterating all possibilities around that.
jlaire makes sense now 23:18
sorry for the noise :)
masak all feedback is welcome :)
jlaire the haskellist in me wants to abstract those loops to a general function; the only difference is how they map ($offset,$i) to ($x,$y) 23:20
masak yeah. 23:21
that might actually be a good idea.
jlaire the loops might better for the audience of the blog post, though
masak was_win is too repetitive.
I had to write it and re-write it a few times. 23:22
first I thought I could get away with only junctions. but that was tricky and unmaintainable.
then I did only maps.
in the end I chose the current style.
23:25 Mowah left, perlhack left 23:28 sjn joined, orafu left, orafu joined 23:34 Moukeddar joined, Moukeddar left 23:35 Moukeddar joined
Moukeddar Hello Perlers o/ 23:35
masak hi Moukeddar \o
Moukeddar how are you Sir?
masak contented. good dinner, good beer. :) 23:36
blogging right now.
Moukeddar: how are you?
Moukeddar got involved in things beyond my ability
other than that : Fantastic
masak :) 23:37
Moukeddar Design patterns are fun :)
i'm learning Minimum 3/day
good rate i guess :) 23:38
masak you really need to code those, too.
I can't stress that heavily enough.
Moukeddar what do you mean?
masak implementing the patterns in actual code. 23:39
feeling how they work in your fingers.
jlaire reading about them isn't enough
masak it's really not enough. it's like reading about eating.
lue Blag toast!: rdstar.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/pe...-prologue/ 23:40
masak ooh
Moukeddar ehm. i'm doing the examples and the exercices 23:41
too
jlaire that's good
but 3/day sounds like a lot
Moukeddar well
some like decorator/proxy are like a variance of the bridge one
so it doesn't seem to be a lot
masak lue: intriguing. 23:42
Moukeddar: it's definitely good to know all of them by name. 23:43
Moukeddar: I wish I knew more of them by name :)
Moukeddar and i wish i know more algorithms and weird data structures :p
masak yeah. there's so much to learn. 23:44
Moukeddar it's an ocean 23:45
and i'm sailing :)
jlaire if you're able to enjoy design patterns, you'll probably *love* algorithms
Moukeddar i do enjoy them, and i love the idea behind them
lue I've got two .org files to prove I've been thinking about and planning it. Actually figuring out exactly what to put where in the ZCode file is the last thing I need to do before the pre-planning is over with.
Moukeddar and the golden rule is : DO NOT THINK IN DESIGN PATTERNS. 23:46
lue, i don't seem to get the concept of interactive fiction
lue Interactive fiction is also known as text adventures. They're games you play by typing in commands and reading the result. 23:48
Nowadays, a lot of them come with graphics and sound, but text is the focal point of the game.
jlaire masak: my stab at the functional approach: laire.fi/t/connect-4.txt 23:49
masak looks
jlaire: you rascal, you define a was_win inside of was_win :P 23:50
jlaire oh!
didn't notice :D
Moukeddar ah, like old Text-based RPGs ? 23:51
a was_win inside of was_win is a bad practice?
masak aye.
jlaire shadowing variable names in general 23:52
I don't think it's even allowed in java
masak it is, AFAIK.
Moukeddar i did that a few times
oopsie
masak let's just call it a "code smell" :)
Moukeddar then me stinks 23:53
lue a bit. Only it's just words. e.g. "You are in the foyer of the home. There is a large archway to the north, and a staircase to the second floor." You could then type 'north' to go, well, north, or 'up' to go to the second floor, and so on.
[not for somebody who can't stand reading :)]
jlaire a specific kind of shadowing is quite common in haskell, but usually it's confusing
yeah I'm confusing java with some other straight-jacket language 23:54
Moukeddar straight-jacket? 23:55
lue this may be a better explanation of IF than I could offer: www.ifwiki.org/index.php/FAQ
jlaire Moukeddar: lots of limitations compared to more expressive languages 23:56
Moukeddar like?
masak forbidding operator overloading.
or macros :) 23:57
jlaire defining callback functions is possible, but painful
it's a bit personal too
Moukeddar i get it now
i get operator overloading 23:58
but i'm not sure what's the equivalent of macros in .NET

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!