»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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supernovus Hmm, IO::Socket::INET appears to have changed its API since I wrote the SCGI library... 00:01
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supernovus well, figured out the new API, much nicer to work with 00:12
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supernovus Okay, another strange question, how can you accept more than one connection on IO::Socket::INET at the same time? Or is this not currently possible? 01:21
sorear probably not possible 01:24
that's called "asynchronous I/O" and it's been on the TODO list for a while
not many people want to write a web server in one of the world's slowest languages, so it's kinda been on the back burner
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supernovus Ah, okay. Well, I fixed the SCGI library so it works with the newest IO::Socket::INET API. It doesn't require async or non-blocking IO. My MUD/MOO daemon on the other hand does, so it's being shelved. Oh well, it was worth a try. :( 01:28
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shinobicl how do i create a constructor? 02:03
rakudo: class Flashlight { has Bool $.is_on = False; method poweron {$.is_on = True} }; my $F = Flashlight.new; say $F.perl;
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«Flashlight.new(is_on => Bool::False)␤»
shinobicl rakudo: class Flashlight { has Bool $.is_on = False; method new {$.is_on = True}; method poweron {$.is_on = True} }; my $F = Flashlight.new; say $F.perl;
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«Type objects are abstract and have no attributes, but you tried to access $!is_on␤ in 'Flashlight::new' at line 22:/tmp/EwLZhGS9tl␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/EwLZhGS9tl␤»
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sorear shinobicl: you write a method named "new" and return a new object from it 03:09
shinobicl rakudo: class Thing { has Int $.x = 0; method new { $.x = 1}; }; my $T = Thing.new; say $T.perl; 03:11
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«Type objects are abstract and have no attributes, but you tried to access $!x␤ in 'Thing::new' at line 22:/tmp/AF40sBhcHV␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/AF40sBhcHV␤»
shinobicl rakudo: class Thing { has Int $.x = 0; method new { $.x = 1}; }; my $T = Thing.new; say $T.perl;
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«Type objects are abstract and have no attributes, but you tried to access $!x␤ in 'Thing::new' at line 22:/tmp/D59kgEeEcc␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/D59kgEeEcc␤»
shinobicl so
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shinobicl i should add a 'return' at the end of 'new'? 03:11
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sorear shinobicl: you need to create a new object in new 03:23
niecza: class A { has $.v; method new($x) { my $new = self.bless(*); $new.v = $x; $new } }; say A.new(15).v 03:24
p6eval niecza v7-44-g54b5188: OUTPUT«15␤»
sorear note, you can call 'new' anything you want
Perl doesn't have a concept of constructors 03:25
only static factory methods
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sorear all classes get an automatic static factory named "new", but you're free to override it or make a completely different one 03:25
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sorear (to be more precise, they inherit it, from Mu, the base of all classes. Unlike C#/Java, static methods can be inherited in Perl.) 03:26
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shinobicl mmm... looks strange, to say at least :) looks like something from perl5. i've never been versed in perl5's oop anyway... 03:28
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shinobicl time to sleep :).. thanks for your help sorear! 03:35
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TimToady whoever's currently editing the features table should make sure it has "state" and "constant" somewhere 05:27
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moritz TimToady: that could be you :-) 06:37
niecza: constant x = 1 + 2; say x 06:43
p6eval niecza v7-44-g54b5188: OUTPUT«3␤»
moritz rakudo: state $x = 3; say $x 06:44
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤"state" not yet implemented at line 22, near "= 3; say $"␤»
moritz niecza: state $x = 3; say $x
p6eval niecza v7-44-g54b5188: OUTPUT«3␤»
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dalek atures: 9b361fb | moritz++ | features.txt:
add more data points, including state variables and constants, TimToady++
 06:48
atures: 3a33f8a | moritz++ | features.txt:
syntax tweaks - no need for commas
moritz sorear++ # filling in more niecza entries 06:49
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jnthn morning, #perl6 07:00
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moritz \o jnthn, how was your vacation? 07:04
jnthn moritz: Great. Not the best weather, but still got to see/do plenty. And lots of awesome noms and beer. :)
moritz \o/ 07:05
jnthn was a little surprised by the fresh snow in July covering trails he wanted to hike :)
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jnthn moritz++ # lots of nom patches \o/ 07:06
sorear o/ jnthn
jnthn o/ sorear 07:07
Catching up planetsix was quick. :) 07:10
sorear I love when mcs complains that my "Shouldn't get here" throws are unreachable 07:12
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dalek ecza: 55f66db | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
runtime-package-access: add simple GLOBAL::Foo::Bar cases, most lexical cases
 07:15
jnthn gets latest Rakudo/nqp builds done while unpacking a few bits 07:16
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moritz unpack NYI at line 1 07:23
sorear Do we have a feature for 4-arg and *-1 substr?
moritz sorear: not yet, feel free to add it though 07:24
sorear should we?
moritz yes
we should also have phasers and eval
sorear Do you have a hard rule for what goes in?
moritz no, just soft rules 07:25
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dalek atures: 13e5be3 | moritz++ | README:
soft rules for what should go into features.txt
 07:29
ecza: 3764b20 | sorear++ | docs/announce.v8:
Draft v8 announce
 07:38
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jnthn moritz: Any idea of current nom blockers that I should take a look at? 08:05
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moritz jnthn: yesterday I tried to make it installable 08:10
jnthn: see branch nom-install, the commit message says what's wrong
jnthn: in general it seems that renaming files is fragile, I run into things not being found in serialization contexts, which I don't know how to fix/debug
jnthn: it's not a blocker for further development, but we should fix it before we switch it over to be master 08:13
sorear any problems with the v8announce? 08:20
moritz reads 08:21
jnthn moritz: I'd be surprised if renaming broke SC stuff 08:22
moritz: What may happen is that we load the wrong version of a file.
moritz jnthn: ah, that could happen
jnthn If you have some modules A and B and a module C uses them, and you pre-compile A and B, then C, then you *must* make sure C sees the A and B it was compiled against. 08:23
moritz sorear: for [Breaking changes] I'd either add a (none) line or remove the heading
jnthn sorear: I glanced over it and didn't notice anything wrong.
moritz: I can improve the error to say what file it's finding the wrong version of. 08:24
Meant to do that before, just didn't get around to it.
moritz sorear++ 08:25
jnthn grrr...hardware fail :/ 08:37
dalek ecza: 87d556d | sorear++ | src/Operator.pm6:
Fix typo in flipflop compiling
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dalek ecza: 5075908 | sorear++ | docs/announce.v8:
Remove empty subheads in announce (moritz)
 08:38
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dalek atures: 1038c2d | moritz++ | template.html:
add link to the repo to template.html
 09:13
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moritz perl6.org/compilers/features is now online. 09:50
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jnthn moritz: in nom - attributes don't work with MI. Really? I thought I fixed that a while back... 09:54
moritz jnthn: my information might be out of date
nom: class A { has $.a = 3 }; class B { has $.b = 5 }; class C is A is B { has $.c = 8 }; given C.new { say .a, .b, .c } 09:55
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«358␤»
moritz \o/
jnthn Also, should Feed operators be under misc, not under MOP? 09:57
Role composition works through the MOP in nom (has to...everything goes through the MOP in nom... :)) 09:58
tadzik good morning #perl6
dalek atures: ba3be9c | moritz++ | features.txt:
nom does support attributes with MI, jnthn++
atures: 4f1b640 | moritz++ | template.html:
note that the .html is automatically updated
atures: 57bd8e8 | moritz++ | features.txt:
more data fixes by jnthn++
jnthn Anyway, moritz++ (and others no doubt) for the features page 09:59
o/ tadzik
moritz [Coke]++ for the CSS, pmichaud++ for data and CSS fixes, sorear++ contributed some niecza data points
jnthn Nice :)
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moritz now I'm curious if the automatic update (in about 15 minutes) works 10:00
\o tadzik
jnthn nom does have parametric roles to some degree also, it's moslty the type checking that is missing and some bugs.
So +/- ATM.
tadzik since everyone's there: what kind of cpu am I looking for when I care about compilation speed, not much else? Something with big cache? Looking at game benchmarks seems like not the best idea 10:01
moritz tadzik: iirc pmichaud had rather high compile speeds, best ask him
(iirc some Intel CPUs)
dalek atures: f2b12b0 | moritz++ | features.txt:
nom mostly does parametric roles
 10:02
tadzik yeah, I'm looking for some intel, I don't want to buy a whole new pc, just give this one some balls 10:03
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jnthn may be doing a new CPU soon too...didn't plan to, but if my machine's current ailment turns out to be a mobo failure...may as well. 10:05
dalek ecza: 3a54a7e | sorear++ | FETCH_URL:
Set bootstrap to v8
 10:06
sorear out 10:09
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moritz blug: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/feature-....writeback 10:17
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jnthn eases back into things with a little refactor to the 6model core 10:22
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dalek p: 1b06d16 | jonathan++ | / (24 files):
Eliminate the REPR PMC, which wrapped around the REPR function pointer table; after a previous refactor that table is now always a singleton. Makes things simpler, and removes a level of indirection for every REPR operation.
 11:15
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flussence tadzik: depends what your PC will take, a few of the new Core CPUs have a turbo mode which is good for single-process stuff (i.e. building CORE.setting) 11:19
tadzik flussence: I just looked through my motherboard compatibility list, and looks like I'm limited to core2/core quad. Seems like I'm going to settle on the first one though 11:21
flussence still, if it takes half an hour to compile then anything's going to seem like an improvement :) 11:22
tadzik which would probably still be at least as good as my laptop, which is still 10x faster in compilation time :)
still, I'll need to wait at least one day for that one to be deliviered. Gah. Once I'm done with this madness I'll be gsoccing 16 hours a day, or more 11:23
flussence it can't be as bad as the one I use at $dayjob... thankfully I'm getting rid of that piece of rust too this week :) 11:24
tadzik what do you have there? 11:25
flussence 1.2GHz celeron :(
tadzik wtf 11:26
moritz that's... prehistoric 11:27
tadzik I mean, my laptop just started
where did I put this hdd
flussence moritz: everything there is. They don't bother upgrading it because "it works"... never mind the fact that fixing anything when it breaks is a day-long job because of how out of date it is... 11:28
tadzik scary piece of junk. I wonder when it'll break again 11:31
but! I have a working machine!
flussence \o/
tadzik maybe it just needed to take a rest from me or something
moritz just don't touch it... oh, wait :-)
tadzik and I have this scary feeling that it can break any time now :/ 11:32
moritz a good reason to commit and push often :-)
tadzik yes I should :)
okay, a battery of tea and I'm ready to hack 11:33
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tadzik heh, just before I clicked "yes, buy" on the shop with the cpu I chose. This "and what if it runs without the battery" feeling 11:34
tadzik switches machines
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frettled moritz++ - very nice, very nice 11:46
dalek kudo/nom-install: 9da32b2 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
compile a lot more things in blib/ instead of src/gen

That way we have a more consistent layout between source tree and installation tree		 11:48
kudo/nom-install: f74a171 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
be more consistent with build locations
kudo/nom-install: bcb8d70 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
simplify module loading
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takadonet morning all 12:10
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tadzik morning takadonet 12:13
takadonet www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/j03...re_matrix/ :) 12:14
moritz++
moritz takadonet: it's nice that you submit those links, but in r/perl6/ nobody will see them
the idea is to reach out of the echo chamber 12:15
takadonet well was about to crosspost to programming
or perl
moritz both make sense 12:16
kboga perl6: say ~Int.WHAT 12:17
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«Int␤»
..rakudo 922500, niecza v8: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
kboga nom: say ~Int.WHAT
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤␤»
moritz nom++
nom: say Int.gist 12:18
tadzik WHAT
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
tadzik :)
moritz by latest spec, say() uses .gist instead of .Str/.Stringy
tadzik oh, segfault when building nom
moritz and .gist tries to return something interesting for the human reader
kboga this seems to cause some spectest failures
moritz whereas .Str returns what interests the compuer 12:19
kboga: then those spectests must be fixed
kboga oh i see
tadzik wklej.org/id/567425/
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tadzik did anyone build nom yet on the bleeding nqp? 12:19
jnthn tadzik: Got a local patch that makes that work. 12:20
tadzik: 6model API changed; needs following in nom.
dalek p: e9244ec | jonathan++ | src/HLL/SerializationContextBuilder.pm:
Get an SC to track those others it ends up referencing.
 12:21
p: 3279ea7 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
Add a way to give an SC a friendly description.
p: 95fbb94 | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
Improve detection of wrong version of pre-compiled code being used, and include the filename in the error rather than a weird SC identifier.
jnthn Wanted to get those chnages in first too, though :) 12:23
moritz :-) 12:24
tadzik okay :) 12:28
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kboga nom: ~1.WHAT 12:33
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤»
jnthn (note, . is higher prec than ~) 12:34
kboga was intended, but the output is normal right?
moritz yes 12:35
(except that it should be a warning, not writing to $*ERR directly)
perl6: say 129.base(2) 12:36
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Int: "&base"␤ at /tmp/W4MxbFzYpc line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
..niecza v8: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method base in class Int␤ at /tmp/9oNjWdunRw line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1933 (CORE C906_ANON @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1934 (CORE module-CORE @ 56) ␤ at …
..rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«10000001␤»
moritz rakudo: printf '%032b', 129 12:37
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«00000000000000000000000010000001»
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dalek kudo/nom: c19671d | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
Bump NQP revision and chase 6model API updates.
 12:41
kudo/nom: d0ce251 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
Add description to SC if available, so we can get the better dependency out of date errors.
moritz wow, t/nqp/58-attrs.t looks botched up 12:42
did nqp ever support accessors? 12:43
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jnthn moritz: There was a broken attempt to add them...that test file is bogus. 12:45
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jnthn I ended up commenting out the code that tried to do it since it was causing me other issues a couple of weeks ago. 12:45
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jnthn I guess we need ot decide whether we should have accessor method generation in NQP or not. 12:46
But if so the test file should use the correct (has $.x) syntax at least.
moritz which nqp doesn't like
nqp: class Foo { has $.answer };
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'nqp;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 3863 (src/Regex/Cursor.pir:244)␤»
moritz nqp: class Foo { has $!answer };
p6eval nqp: ( no output )
moritz I'm fine with nqp not having accessors 12:47
I'll just change the test to test attributes, not accessors
dalek p: 4a314bf | moritz++ | t/nqp/58-attrs.t:
fix 58-attrs.t
 12:50
tadzik the laptop's broken again :/ 12:52
moritz :(
tadzik it just started discharging again
kboga nom: use Test; is 1.WHAT.gist, 'Int()'; # or .perl --> 'Int'? 12:53
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Rebuild in progress␤»
moritz kboga: the correct test would be 1.WHAT === Int 12:55
kboga: though comparing .gist in is() will give better diagnostics
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dalek kudo/nom: 10d4051 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Start to implement sign.
 13:16
colomon wait, how did I do that?
ah, I see 13:17
one of those weird git message things.
kboga ah, it makes more sense to me now, thanks for the explanation moritz++ 13:18
rakudo: my $a = 0; for (1..10000000000) {$a++;last} 13:19
p6eval rakudo 922500: ( no output )
kboga nom: my $a = 0; for (1..10000000000) {$a++;last}
moritz rakudo: my $a = 0; for (1..10000000000) {$a++;last}; say $a 13:20
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz ouch, seems it reifies the list somewhere
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moritz nom: say (1..1000000000000).map({ 1; last }) 13:20
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 13:21
moritz pmichaud: feel hilighted, see above
PerlJam nom: my $a = 0; for 1..10000000000 {$a++;last}; say $a 13:24
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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moritz nom: (1..100000000000).list; say 'alive'; 13:25
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«alive␤»
moritz nom: (1..100000000000).list.map({last}); say 'alive';
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«alive␤»
moritz nom: (1..100000000000).list.map({last}).eager; say 'alive';
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 13:26
moritz ah, the problem is that .eager causes it to continue to process after the 'last'
and for @list boils down to eager @list.map: ...
jnthn Seems a little too eager. 13:27
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[Coke] tries to build ... sorear's perl6. 13:39
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[Coke] gist.github.com/1106792 13:44
Can't build Niecza
er.
msg sorear gist.github.com/1106792
tell sorear gist.github.com/1106792
*sigh* bothelp? 13:45
tadzik phenny: tell sorear [Coke] says gist.github.com/1106792
phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
moritz [Coke]: niecza traditionally needs a hard clean (for example git clean -xdf ) after a release 13:46
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[Coke] ok, rebuilding... 13:47
niecza is not ||make friendly, it seems, either. (not cause of my original issue) 13:48
moritz phenny: tell sorear about gist.github.com/1106801 too -- bootstrapping with parallel make seems to be missing a few dependencies
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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[Coke] moritz++ 13:49
moritz timing ;-)
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Su-Shee who did the feature matrix? 13:51
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[Coke] moritz: no change. still fails, same error. 13:52
Su-Shee: moritz.
moritz Su-Shee: me, [Coke], pmichaud
[Coke] (with some help from masak, pmichaud, sorear and me.) 13:53
moritz ah right, forgot sorear++ and masak++
you can see that the design is far too nice to come from me :-) 13:54
Su-Shee moritz: you earned yourselves a luxury chocolate truffle cake on some occasion.
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moritz \o/ 13:55
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moritz Su-Shee: let's do that at German Perl Workshop 2012 :-) 13:55
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Su-Shee the one in berlin? better be, because chocolate truffle cake doesn't really work well after 6 hours in a train ;) 13:56
moritz no, Erlangen
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Su-Shee uff. :) 13:57
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moritz prefers nougat to truffle anyway :-) 13:58
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Su-Shee no problem. ;) 13:59
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Su-Shee you can make truffle cream out of nougat just fine. :) 13:59
may I suggest to make "Rakudo", "Rakudo/Nom" and "Niecza" a) a link to the appropriate github repo and b) to add behind it in what language it is written? like Rakudo (Parrot), Rakudo/Nom (Perl 6), Niecza (C#) or something like this? 14:01
moritz links are on my TODO list 14:02
languages... it's not so easy
niecza is also written in Perl 6 to a good degree
[Coke] Su-Shee: can you open those as tickets on perl6/features queue? 14:03
Su-Shee if I remember correctly, the feature about rakudo/nom is being a pure perl 6 thing, right?
[Coke] Su-Shee: it's still running on parrot.
more of it is written in perl6, but I don't think it's all.
moritz it's more about the New Object Model (nom) :-)
14:03 daniel-s_ left
moritz some of it is in C (lots new dynops) 14:03
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moritz but most in nqp or p6, yes 14:03
[Coke] url for n4a ? 14:05
(yes, I'm that lazy.)
moritz n4a?
Su-Shee moritz: ah ok.
I/me goes looking for the perl67features queue.. 14:06
moritz github.com/perl6/features/issues 14:07
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[Coke] sorear's perl6. 14:09
that is annoying difficult to remember how to spell. ;)
moritz github.com/sorear/niecza
[Coke]: here's a small trick:
perl6: say 1
Su-Shee hm dammit I can't watch the entire perl6 thing..
tadzik as a Pole, I don't see anything difficult to spell that :)
p6eval pugs, rakudo 922500, niecza v8: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz its name is right there in the output list :-)
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dalek atures: 8d948eb | moritz++ | / (3 files):
implement links for compiler names. It is an ugly hack, but so is the rest of this script :/
 14:13
Su-Shee tadzik: as a german I point to the joke with the polish name. ;) 14:14
tadzik :>
[Coke] GAH. 14:15
Su-Shee submitted issue nr. 1 ;) github.com/perl6/features/issues/1
[Coke] moritz: guess what I just tripped over trying to push my changes to allow urls.
moritz [Coke]: sorry, we should coordinate better :/ 14:16
[Coke]: is your patch a less ugly hack than mine?
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[Coke] only slightly, but I already deleted it. 14:17
i would just do a split...3 there. 14:18
Su-Shee I can' stress enough how much more of an idea this feature matrix gives anyone not knowing perl 6 well.. also, that it looks like _three_ compilers already support like 80% looks very nice. :)
[Coke] but otherwise, it's like a 90% overlap with wht I did.
moritz++
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smash hello everyone 14:21
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moritz hugme: add kboga to perl6 14:23
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moritz ouch 14:24
[Coke] moritz: adding the timestamp. 14:25
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 14:27
moritz kboga: you now have commit access to the roast repo, welcome
jnthn morning, p
gah
pmichaud:
moritz kboga: please go ahead and merge your pull request, I'm too lazy to do that for everybody :-)
jnthn ...worreva
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pmichaud jnthn: o/ 14:28
14:28 ChanServ sets mode: +v hugme
moritz [Coke]: do you plan to add the timestamp based on creation date of the file, or based on the timestamp from the last commit? 14:28
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kboga thanks moritz 14:32
kboga hopes he doesn't mess things up =/
moritz kboga: if you do, don't worry - it's all under version control 14:33
kboga what a relief :)
moritz so it's trivial to roll back to the last working state if somebody breaks something
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moritz oh btw, you also got access to a lot of other repos in the perl6/ organization on github - we are too lazy for a finer graded access control :-) 14:34
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moritz not only lazy, but so far it worked pretty well 14:34
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dalek atures: 41b8c9a | Coke++ | / (2 files):
display last updated info in UTC.
 14:34
moritz I don't know of a single case of vandalism in our repos 14:35
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[Coke] moritz: ... I just made it last time the page was run. if we want a different time, just replace the call to time() 14:35
is the thing running it always in a git repo?
moritz yes
[Coke] hurm. actually, I can just use perl. momentito. 14:36
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moritz (stat "features.txt")[9] or so 14:38
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dalek ast: afa3b69 | kboga++ | S04-statements/for.t:
Fix tests to concat the gist of the type object instead of the type object directly.
 14:41
ast: a96302b | kboga++ | S04-statements/for.t:
Merge pull request #4 from kboga/master

Fix for using a type object in string context.
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dalek atures: 5d52303 | Coke++ | / (2 files):
note both page creation time and data update time.
 14:44
[Coke] moritz: there's a first pass. enjoy.
moritz [Coke]++
dalek ast: 38f4adc | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-num/sign.t:
Fudge for nom.
kudo/nom: 9c39731 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Real.pm:
Add Real.sign(Real:U:).
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dalek kudo/nom: bbde437 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on sign.t.
 14:50
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kboga say, if all the tests but the last were to pass for t/spec/S04-statements/for.t, would I be allowed to fudge that one test, marking it as todo, and turn on the for.t? 14:52
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moritz kboga: yes 14:52
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pmichaud from features/template.html: "It is automatically updated at least once per hour. 14:57
...where? ;-)
tadzik hihi :)
moritz tries to figure out if pmichaud's question has a serious component 14:59
pmichaud it does. I'm looking for the latest features.html but don't know where to look.
moritz perl6.org/compilers/features 15:00
sorry :-)
TimToady_ or git clone [email@hidden.address] for the very latest
pmichaud also, the word "It" is a little ambiguous in that sentence... it almost sounds as though the repository itself is automatically updated. :)
but I can fix that part.
moritz pmichaud: please do
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moritz maybe also add a note about the canonical URL of that document, or so 15:01
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pmichaud and I did go to the compilers page on perl6.org but didn't find a link to features :) 15:01
moritz I've now update the homepage link in the github repo
pmichaud: that's also something that needs to be done
dalek atures: 8b27249 | larry++ | features.txt:
add compact and shaped entries
 15:05
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dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 6cf9e44 | moritz++ | source/compilers/index.html:
[compilers/] add link to feature comparison matrix, fix/remove some outdated links
 15:06
Su-Shee moritz: works perfectly. :) 15:08
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tadzik Test.pm compilation segfaults, yep? 15:10
moritz worked fine here last I tried
tadzik I hope it's not my laptop trolling me again
0x00007ffff42b5a7f in Parrot_Perl6LexPad_set_pointer_orig () from dynext/perl6_group.so 15:11
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jnthn tadzik: Make sure you have lastest NQP; also try to make clean. 15:11
I bumped NQP_REVISION ealirer today.
*earlier 15:12
dalek atures: 847299b | pmichaud++ | template.html:
Update page location information.
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lichtkind thou++ 15:18
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tadzik okay, make clean helped 15:20
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dalek atures: 5ed48b8 | pmichaud++ | / (2 files):
Hovering over a footnote link displays the footnote via tooltip.
 15:31
moritz pmichaud: very nice. Note that escape=html is the default, by process.pl line 69, default_escape => HTML 15:33
dalek atures: 525c283 | pmichaud++ | template.html:
Use true superscript for footnotes, keep +/_ aligned.
 15:35
pmichaud moritz: ah, didn't see that. 15:36
this is actually my first time to use H::T::C :-)
or anything H::T related
dalek ast: 7e60c7d | kboga++ | S04-statements/for.t:
Fudge S04-statements/for.t

skip test for RT #64886 on which nom regressed		 15:37
kboga to enable the test see following pull requests: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/27 15:45
hmm should I git pull --rebase to avoid the merge? 15:47
dalek atures: d7ce843 | pmichaud++ | template.html:
Clean up footnote_link class handling a bit, reduce the size of the space before the footnote number.
atures: f60f1b7 | Coke++ | .gitignore:
add a gitignore
 15:48
atures: 2320bcb | Coke++ | Makefile:
Add a makefile
atures: 413dd7b | pmichaud++ | template.html:
Remove extra escape=html, moritz++ points out that it's the default in process.pl.
 15:49
atures: c2212b0 | pmichaud++ | / (2 files):
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/features
pmichaud mmmm, Makefile. Coke++
dalek atures: dc890f2 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
implement links for feature names
moritz I didn't really test that commit, so be doubly impressed if it actually works :-) 15:50
have to run now... bad timing :/
feel free to revert if it breaks anything
[Coke] the link to compact arrays seems fine. 15:51
the table formatting has been screwed up. 15:52
pmichaud (table formatting) what's messed up? it looks fine on my display. 15:55
[Coke] in chrome, "rakudo/master" is over the rakudo/nom column. 15:57
pmichaud ah, yes.
[Coke] looks fine in IE.
<th><a href=""></a></th> 15:58
looks like there's an extra cell.
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pmichaud seems odd that there's an extra cell in the header but not in the body 16:01
oh, i see why 16:02
(why there's a difference, not why we get an empty compiler in the headers)
[Coke] ah, good. I was starting to go blind.
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TimToady_ would like to see the text fields be links to appropriate RC entries that demonstrate runnable code 16:04
16:04 TimToady_ is now known as TimToady
pmichaud TimToady: instead of to the spec? 16:05
[Coke] thinks linking to the SYN is more appropriate.
(and then have the SYN link to rosetta code for examples)
TimToady pmichaud: yes, the spec is too scattered, and too abstract
pmichaud how about separate "(spec)" and "(code)" links?
TimToady and the test suite is too, er, testy
pmichaud s/code/example/
TimToady that'd be okay too
[Coke] pmichaud: do you have a fix for the empty compiler? 16:06
pmichaud [Coke]: should have one shortly
I'm running at only about 50% capacity today due to household distractions
[Coke] ah, got it. just double the shift. ;) 16:07
TimToady is a bit distracted by having to write a soto, but would like to make heavy use of the feature list
since it's very much about the current state
[Coke] soto?
Oh.
TimToady state of the... 16:08
pmichaud TimToady: I'll see if I can develope separate "(spec)" and "(code)" here shortly. But you'll have to provide the RC links or tell us where to look :)
[Coke] He can update features.txt. ;)
TimToady I can do the rc links
pmichaud when is soto?
TimToady thu night
pmichaud oh, *plenty* of time :)
[Coke] pmichaud: want me to commit the quick fix for the column headers?
pmichaud [Coke]: if you have one, yes.
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TimToady in particular, if I can click to the p6 rc entry, then I can just backscroll to talk about how p5 could do the same thing 16:09
dalek atures: 258dac9 | Coke++ | process.pl:
Avoid generating a empty td in the header.
pmichaud I think the problem is that the blank line is being treated as a compiler.
(after ABBREVIATIONS)
[Coke] pmichaud: I think it's being skipped already by the $comment RE. 16:10
pmichaud [Coke]: I think you're right. 16:11
[Coke] ``fixed''.
pmichaud I don't know why the shift is needed, then.
[Coke] fixed headers on the table would be nice, but I'll leave that alone for now. ;)
pmichaud oh, I see. 16:13
1-based indexing is Evil. 2-based indexing is worse. :) 16:14
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tadzik :P 16:14
[Coke] pmichaud: urk?
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[Coke] TimToady: can you give us a RC url for one of those lines? 16:16
TimToady sec
pmichaud [Coke]: are you working on the code example part?
[Coke] just getting the URL for one of us to deal with.
pmichaud or just gathering data for me to do it? ;-)
okay :)
[Coke] our .txt input file is getting complicated enough to consider switching to an .ini file. 16:17
(or json or yml or something)
pmichaud I agree there
TimToady rosettacode.org/wiki/Inheritance/Single#Perl_6
[Coke] pmichaud: do you care which? I tend to slightly prefer json, but I work with it every day. 16:18
TimToady rc:Inheritance/Single#Perl_6 for short, maybe
or just full url, if we want that
since some examples may be elsewhere
[Coke] full url is "easier" for now. 16:19
pmichaud [Coke]: I'd prefer json also.
tadzik > Int.HOW.docs
sample WHY output
small steps forward :)
TimToady full is fine
[Coke] pmichaud: k. 16:20
jnthn tadzik: yay :)
pmichaud [Coke]: would you prefer to work on it for now? I may be at 50% for a while.
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tadzik jnthn: Perl6::Metamodel::Naming looks like a sensemaking place for it, doesn't it? You stick those to something that has a name 16:21
jnthn tadzik: I'd rather add a Perl6::Metamodel::Documenting or so. 16:22
tadzik: The idea is that the roles are single-purpose. :)
pmichaud somehow I have trouble seeing the relationship between "documenting" and "metamodel", fwiw.
it feels misnamed. 16:23
jnthn pmichaud: The various roles that get composed into meta-objects all live under there.
dalek atures: 2aae895 | Coke++ | Makefile:
add make clean;
[Coke] pmichaud: sure. 16:24
PerlJam jnthn: meta-roles? :)
[Coke] lunch break from work, I can hack on this for a minute.
tadzik jnthn: oh, ok. Anyway, since you appeared: I'm looking for some place to pass the parsed documentation to the class/package/whatever somehow. The only thing that I see happening in Actions.pm is adding the block.ast and then SymbolTable calls .compose. Where do I stick my additional information?
jnthn PerlJam: Sure, if you like :)
tadzik: At what point do you have it? 16:25
tadzik: and how do you know what to associate it with?
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tadzik jnthn: At no point, almost. I see that whatever happens to be a class declaration goes to the <package_def> method in actions. Then the method does all the dirty work with it. I want to stick something into package_def that'll be capable of adding a parsed documentation to the resulting class 16:27
that sounds confusing now that I read it :) 16:28
okay, the first inchstone will be: classes have a .HOW.docs method which returns "this is $!name", $something_passed_there_by_actions.pm 16:29
jnthn OK, but I meant where does that something come from? When do you parse that something?
Is this the "applies to the next declaration" thingy? 16:30
tadzik: I ask because actually the class meta-object is around long, long before the package_def action method is called. that just "finalizes" it.
It's actually around from just before the opening curly of the class decl. 16:31
tadzik oh, that explains stuff. Well, I guess that gets parsed along with the class declaration 16:33
so the #= foo foo before 'class' goes to the package_def method as well
jnthn tadzik: Can I see an example of the source along with the docs?
tadzik yes
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jnthn What else does this apply to? Attributes also? Methods? 16:33
I'm thinking we need a more "general" mechanism. 16:34
tadzik wklej.org/id/567587/
yes, attributes and methods as well. Also subroutine parameters, iirc
[Coke] (features.json) something like this? gist.github.com/1107185
pmichaud the "status" doesn't give a good way to do footnotes 16:35
I
I'd go for
[Coke] it's definitely verbose compared to the .txt file, but it's going to get unweildy adding multiple urls.
pmichaud oh, I guess the footnotes could be done the same way as now
I was thinking of something like: 16:36
[Coke] (I was just going to do footnotes the same way)
jnthn tadzik: What about for attributes? (more)
I have vague memories of something like
[Coke] trying to strike a balance between verbosity and ... the other thing.
[Coke] goes to grab a lunch and will return shortly.
jnthn #= What type of beer?
has $!type;
working
but also you could do
has $!type; #= What type of beer?
Is that correct, or memory of older spec? :) 16:37
pmichaud [Coke]: yes, footnotes same way as now works
moritz pops up for a few minutes 16:38
pmichaud moritz: I think we're jsonifying features.txt, unless you object :)
tadzik jnthn: that's still spec-ok
jnthn: do those cases differ much? 16:39
moritz pmichaud: that's OK, as long as it doesn't become too verbose
jnthn tadzik: At first glance, yeah
pmichaud moritz: yeah, we definitely want to avoid verbosity
jnthn tadzik: Trying to thing how to most neatly handle that.
tadzik: There wouldn't happen to be a trait version of this also, would there?
is doc('...')
?
tadzik really? I thought it's just token attribute { 'has' <something something> <docs> }, <docs> appearing at various places
is doc() -- I don't think so 16:40
jnthn tadzik: Oh...I thought it was just parsed as a normal pod comment?
tadzik jnthn: nope, that gets attached to the attribute/class/whatever
well, it probably will end up being parsed as a <pod_string> or something of this sort
brb, nom 16:41
jnthn Well, it's not token attribute either...it's just a normal variable declarator.
ooh, dinner...I like that idea.
I guess I'm mostly curious if "#= foo" style comments are just parsed explicitly in certain places, or fall under normal comment parsing and then we use a contextual or something to identify the attachment target, or the docs to be attached... 16:42
[Coke] moritz: TimToady wants multiple urls per row. (2 for now). need something a little more structured than 'everything on a line', I think. 16:43
pmichaud technically, TimToady wanted links to RC. :-) multiple links is the way to handle both spec and RC :) 16:47
at any rate, a json format will be more extensible for the next features feature we decide to include :)
[Coke] roger. 16:48
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tadzik jnthn: they are only needed in certain cases 16:53
oh, looks like it can be used with any kind of declarator 16:55
arnsholt jnthn: D'you think it'd be possible to reuse/subvert some of the serialization context code to implement a Storable-like module?
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[Coke] pmichaud: have to drop off and get back to DAYJOB. Will be happy to finish this up after I get home, though. 17:03
(can provide the .json in progress if someone wants to jump in.)
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pmichaud [Coke]: I can jump in. Perhaps you can make a branch? 17:08
or just send me diffs
[Coke] feather.perl6.nl/~coke/features.json 17:09
that's just the first 2 sections so I had something to work with.
(going to make it work as is first, make sure the .html output was the same, /then/ add the new links) 17:10
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[Coke] there's a process.pl there also, but the only thing worth grabbing at the moment is the setup at the top to get you the json pulled into $config. 17:11
if you don't get to it, I'll finish it up this evening. (or polish what's left if you get some of it in)
pmichaud I'll work on it a while. 17:16
[Coke] I tried to pick a slightly more compact json rendering. It's a little odd, but hopefully will please moritz. 17:18
pmichaud moritz: comments on the Coke's json format welcomed. 17:19
diakopter still hopes for links to the Snn 17:20
pmichaud diakopter: that's why we're going through this.
diakopter oh cool
diakopter suggested it yesterday, but no one replied 17:24
pmichaud diakopter: probably ENOTUITS, depending on when the suggestion occurred :) 17:25
[Coke] if you could collect some links o the SYN, that would help. ;)
jnthn arnsholt: When it really does serialization, almost certainly.
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tadzik > our multi sub postfix:<$>($a) { "$a dolarów" }; 5$ 17:28
diakopter [Coke]: ok I'll gather some links, of the form S06.html#%22Pointy_blocks%22
tadzik zsh: segmentation fault perl6
diakopter I needed something to do today anyway 17:29
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arnsholt jnthn: Excellent. It won't be very cross-compiler, but it'd give a quick solution to the problem (and save a massive amount of work) 17:29
jnthn oops, still didn't get around to eating... 17:33
jnthn goes to get dinner
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masak jnthn! \o/ 17:37
#perl6! \o/
tadzik masak: \o/
s/:/!/
masak :)
masak makes nom 17:39
g'ah! the food kind. :P
tadzik goo.gl/xLl7Y :) 17:41
masak boars on 17:42
a pig's gotta eat. 17:43
tadzik (:
TimToady nom: constant $x = 42; 17:44
p6eval nom: ( no output )
TimToady nom: constant $x = 42; say $x 17:45
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«42␤»
benabik nom: constant x = 42; say x # sigil-less?
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«42␤»
masak \o/
TimToady was looking at the footnote
nom: constant x = 1+2; say x
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Cannot handle constant with non-literal value yet at line 1, near "= 1+2; say"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 23611 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:6347) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:329)␤»
TimToady nom: constant x = BEGIN 1+2; say x 17:46
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &infix:<+>␤current instr.: '_block1002' pc 29 ((file unknown):91180491) (/tmp/FNV4bexXfe:1)␤»
masak nom: constant 马x = "OH HAI"; say 马x # horse sigil?
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak oh ma!
TimToady a horse named Max? 17:47
masak Mǎx, perhaps :) 17:48
tadzik 马d马x
TimToady beyond thundergnat...
masak can't sto马ch all these puns 17:49
jnthn nom: BEGIN say 1 + 2
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &infix:<+>␤current instr.: '_block1002' pc 29 ((file unknown):57101099) (/tmp/I9bzKbJVml:1)␤»
jnthn nom: BEGIN { say 1 + 2 }
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«3␤»
jnthn :S
masak niecza: BEGIN say 1 + 2 17:50
p6eval niecza v8: OUTPUT«3␤»
TimToady thundergnat == 雷蚋 or some such
jnthn We won't get full-blown constants, nor BEGIN, in nom until the serialization stuff is done. 17:51
It's high on my list after the master merge.
Next big project, as such.
diakopter [Coke]: are you jsonifying features? 17:53
pmichaud diakopter: Coke++ turned it over to me for a while. I'm working on it now. 17:56
I'm about 50% done. 17:57
(I'm also refactoring the process.pl code a fair bit )
[Coke] pmichaud++
pmichaud I'm thinking I'll leave the house for a short while so I can get a duty cycle >50% for a bit.
(fewer distractions)
masak hm. the feature table never seemed to make it to reddit.com/r/programming ... 18:00
pmichaud okay, changing locations... bbi20
diakopter I just noticed that the Ann and Enn links are all broken on perlcabal.org/syn
masak I've been pointing that out for some time now. 18:05
since the perl.org redesign. 18:06
they're available through the Wayback Machine.
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diakopter hm 18:10
some of these very broad feature items defy nailing down to one region of the Snn 18:11
"basic types (strings, numbers)"
TimToady that's what I was saying 18:14
irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-07-26#i_4170610
maybe instead of single links, we can have a list of (spec) (spec) (spec) (eg) (eg) (eg) on the end of the line 18:15
or maybe it means it's time to reorg the spec :)
diakopter egads
Eevee \o/ this matrix is a grand improvement 18:16
dalek kudo/nom: eb38b99 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
Fix thunk building, so BEGIN say 1 + 2 will work.
TimToady Eevee: thanks for the blog that initiated it
Eevee let me know if you ever need my expert griping services again 18:17
pmichaud back again 18:18
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masak Eevee: just gripe at will! :) 18:22
Su-Shee Eevee: nice blogging. I agreed a lot :) 18:23
18:23 rurban joined
TimToady poor will... 18:23
rurban Will rakudo-star-2011.07 be the next and when? Maybe someone knows
Because it might be the last one with these packaging rules and I want to provide it for cygwin 18:24
pmichaud next: yes. when: tonight.
rurban great
diakopter whip ...
rurban good luck
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[Coke] is sorry he dumped the json thing on pmichaud if he had other stuff to do. ;) 18:42
pmichaud [Coke]: no, I didn't.
I'm quite happy to be doing it. 18:43
TimToady it's not at all clear to me how one should checkout a nom branch into a separate directory to avoid clobbering the current rakudo directory; the nom readme and git manpages are somewhat unhelpful
pmichaud TimToady: git clone [email@hidden.address] nom
TimToady that makes a nom dir?
pmichaud that clones rakudo into a "nom" dir.
then
$ cd nom
$ git checkout nom
TimToady thanks 18:44
pmichaud and you have a separate install for the nom branch
TimToady I assume it's still an internal install
pmichaud it is
TimToady k
pmichaud $ perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot; make
(or create config.default if you don't want to type the options on each reconfig :) 18:45
TimToady I always do --gen-parrot
masak I always do --gen-nqp --gen-parrot with nom. 18:48
pmichaud gist.github.com/1107547 # is this too verbose? 18:50
TimToady it appears to be doing the nqp automatically
pmichaud --gen-parrot implies --gen-nqp, yes. 18:51
dalek ast: 5627618 | kboga++ | S02-polymorphic_types/subset.t:
(un)fudge subset.t for nom
TimToady pmichaud: that's fine; earlier we speculated about multiple spec and code entries 18:52
pmichaud TimToady: I know how to adapt to that if needed
*when needed :) 18:53
with this json structure the code gets a fair bit simpler
TimToady shpaed arrays/hashes is already an example, since the link only points to arrays
pmichaud and it doesn't seem too much farther than what Coke++ already proposed (and makes extension even easier) 18:54
kboga maybe the "subset Person of Hash" test could be made more robust by doing a regexp on the Exception in the dies_ok case?
the exception message being: Type check failed in assignment to '$p'; expected 'Person' but got 'Hash' 18:55
masak #phasers in 5.
pmichaud kboga: it's not clear to what extent exception messages are "spec" 18:56
at least, not yet.
kboga pmichaud: i know but they seem to be used for other testing
pmichaud in the spectests themselves? 18:57
kboga like this: ok "$!" ~~ / RT67256 /, 'error for bad assignment mentions subset';
RT67256 being the name of the subset 18:58
masak I got one of those the other day, where having the name of the thing would've helped. 18:59
pmichaud kboga: I'm not opposed, but it might need a larger discussion about how much conformity we expect among error messages.
masak rakudo: role A { method foo {} }; role B { method foo {} }; class C does A does B {}
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'foo' collides and a resolution must be provided by the class␤»
masak yeah, but which class? :)
nom: role A { method foo {} }; role B { method foo {} }; class C does A does B {}
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' must be resolved by class 'C' because it exists in multiple roles (B, A)␤current instr.: '_block2900' pc 43822 (src/gen/perl6-metamodel.pir:13596) (src/gen/Metamodel.pm:1275)␤»
masak \o/ jnthn++
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TimToady nitpick: why is 'C' quoted, but not B or A? 19:02
masak and why are (B, A) reversed wrt how they occur in the code? 19:03
TimToady nom: role A { method foo {} }; role B { method foo {} }; class C does B does A {} 19:04
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' must be resolved by class 'C' because it exists in multiple roles (A, B)␤current instr.: '_block2900' pc 43822 (src/gen/perl6-metamodel.pir:13596) (src/gen/Metamodel.pm:1275)␤»
TimToady fixed it for ya
masak #phasers has begun.
TimToady: :P
TimToady: they're still reversed wrt how they are being 'does'-ed.
kboga pmichaud: I understand, however there are multiple ways in which a dies_ok test can fail, I kinda want to assert that the case in which it fails is the case in which it is allowed to fail. 19:05
masak kboga: all "check for failure" tests should be like that, IMO. 19:06
kboga But the only way to do that is to check the error message? 19:08
masak presumably.
pmichaud "currently" the only way ... 19:09
masak checking anything else would have a distinctly lower success rate :P
pmichaud I'm not sure that should be the spec way.
jnthn masak: Roles are inherently unordered.
masak jnthn: but data structures in memory never are. 19:10
jnthn masak: It's not deliberate that they "disorder" in that error message...you can probably find out where it's happening if you want to.
masak ok. 19:11
jnthn masak: It's not so surprising though...the code doesn't have to care for ordering of does statements. In fact, the point of roles is that the ordering doesn't matter.
masak right.
jnthn TimToady: In general, would you prefer quotes or none? 19:12
TimToady: I agree the lack of consistency sucks.
TimToady I tend to put quotes only where I think it might be confusing
since classes are uppercase, they tend to not need quotes
method names, being lowercase usually, can be more confusing 19:13
jnthn OK
TimToady suppose you had a method named cannot
Method cannot must be resolved...
Method never must be resolved 19:14
:)
pmichaud Method always must be resolved...
masak Method maybe must be resolved.
TimToady so I tend to quote lowercase words, but nothing else
well, if it can be the null string, it needs quotes too
masak rakudo: maybe
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &maybe␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/NrEtXVP9rp␤» 19:15
masak prefixing with '&' is a kind of quoting, too :)
TimToady sigils are also suppressive of quote needfullness
19:15 shinobicl left
masak rakudo: even_though_I_looked_for_it_everywhere 19:15
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &even_though_I_looked_for_it_everywhere␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/tMOi6IKisM␤»
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colomon rakudo: my $a; my $b = "Num"; say "($a).$b"; 19:18
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«(Any()).Num␤»
colomon rakudo: my $a = Mu; my $b = "Num"; say "($a).$b";
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«(Mu()).Num␤»
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dalek kudo/nom: 08c2f9c | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/RoleToClassApplier.pm:
Be more consistent on quoting in an error (TimToady++).
 19:22
19:26 Jackneill left
masak "be more consistent with your feedback" -- Flight of the Conchords 19:27
sorear good * #perl6 19:30
phenny sorear: 13:45Z <tadzik> tell sorear [Coke] says gist.github.com/1106792
sorear: 13:48Z <moritz> tell sorear about gist.github.com/1106801 too -- bootstrapping with parallel make seems to be missing a few dependencies
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[Coke] sorear;I'm here if you need me to retry anything. 19:34
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sorear [Coke]: are you on mono 2.6.7? 19:35
[Coke] yes.
sorear good, then I know what happened
[Coke] \o/ 19:36
do I need to upgrade or something?
sorear upgrading would fix it, yes, but I have a workaround that I forgot to commit yesterday 19:37
[Coke] if you like, I'll hold off on the upgrade until I can test your workaround. 19:39
colomon rakudo: say Radians
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«0␤»
masak is there a way, short of regexes, to answer the question "is this character a letter?"? 19:42
dalek ecza: 24e0bb1 | sorear++ | Makefile:
Do not use bootstrap compiler in multi-compile mode
ecza: f6cf9b5 | sorear++ | Makefile:
Leave confusing files out of binary
tadzik masak: $a.ord ~~ ('a'..'z')? 19:43
or so
[Coke] masak: ask ICU?
tadzik: see also: unicode.
tadzik yeah, I know
sorear niecza: say Q:CgOp { (UniCat {'z'}) } 19:44
p6eval niecza v8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Q:CgOp not allowed in safe mode at /tmp/0PBm1lhKud line 1:␤------> say Q:CgOp { (UniCat {'z'}) ⏏}␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 685 (CORE die @ 2) ␤ at /home/p…
sorear [Coke]: you can try again (will need to clean)
masak tadzik: I was aiming especially for a Unicode-aware solution. failed to mention that.
tadzik mhm 19:45
masak [Coke]: that sounds like a good suggestion.
[Coke]: any concrete way to do that?
[Coke] modified: hoopl/Nam.hs 19:46
I cannot seem to un-modify it.
tadzik git checkout hoopl/Nam.hs?
[Coke] masak: well, you can call C (ew), or there might be a parrot opcode that DTRT (slightly less ew) 19:47
tadzik: still modified.
tadzik [Coke]: with --force maybe?
[Coke] tadzik: still modified. 19:48
tadzik git checkout -f 'branch'?
[Coke] "Already on master" 19:49
masak [Coke]: that sounds intriguing, albeit a bit tricky.
19:50 birdwindupbird left
[Coke] want me to see the 19:50
... no clue what that was. sorry 19:51
sorear masak: what if I added a Str.general-category method? 19:52
[Coke]: um. on OSX? 19:53
[Coke] sorear: yes.
sorear it looks like pmurias committed both hoopl/nam.hs and hoopl/Nam.hs 19:54
masak sorear: sounds fine, but a word of warning: making them just .letter or so is not a good idea.
[Coke] ... GAH
sorear I wonder if pmurias would be offended if I exiled his not-quite-ever-working-and-very-bitrotten backends to branches 19:55
[Coke] i can't even update at this point.
masak sorear: we've had problems with .print methods on objects being that kind of method.
[Coke]: are you experiencing git frustration?
[Coke] masak: only when I use niecza. ;)
masak oh :)
[Coke]: git frustration used to happen to me, but nowadays it happens very seldom. it's all about finding one's own particular set of subcommands that can take one out of any particular pinch. 19:56
diakopter sorear: I'm sure pmurias wouldn't be offended
sorear masak: niecza repo contains two files that differ only in case. [Coke]'s fs is case insensitive. Bang.
masak ah. 19:57
Pro tip for Mac OS X users: first thing you do, reformat the HD to be case sensitive. for your own mental health's sake.
[Coke] even git reset --hard HEAD leaves a changed file.
masak: ok. now fix windows.
dalek ecza: 838bc38 | sorear++ | / (14 files):
Exile alternate backends to a branch
 19:58
masak what's Windows? :P
[Coke] masak: "hah."
masak some kind of scheduling software?
benabik masak: I leave mine case insensitive specifically so I can find breakages for the users who don't understand how to change it.
[Coke] given that I do 99% of my work on windows/OS X, I find your world view amusingly baroque. :P
tylercurtis masak: it's a bad idea to not have a case insensitive HFS partition somewhere on a Mac.
sorear [Coke]: try git fetch; rm hoopl/nam.hs; git reset --hard 838bc38 19:59
tylercurtis Some Mac software refuses or fails to work on case sensitive filesystems.
masak benabik: that's heroic of you. I'm not that heroic.
tylercurtis: why?
pmichaud TimToady (and others): pmichaud.com/sandbox/features.html
benabik Hah. Yes. Some devs don't notice they used different cases on files.
pmichaud See the "Single inheritance" entry
[Coke] sorear++ 20:00
pmichaud json used to create that: gist.github.com/1107842
tylercurtis The Mac version of Steam, for example, caused me great deals of problems when I kept it on my case sensitive external drive.
[Coke] pmichaud: that's not checked in? 20:01
pmichaud [Coke]: not yet... just wanted to get initial feedback before I commit it.
also, the features.json needs to be filled out again :)
[Coke] oh, didn't even notice your 1st url wasn't on perl6. ;)
pmichaud I could probably write a short program to convert the existing features.txt to features.json, rather than doing it by hand 20:02
if only there was a good programming languag..... oh. 20:03
masak awk!
sed!
[Coke] masak: your offer is accepted.
masak d'oh 20:04
pmichaud I fairly radically rewrote process.pl
20:05 Mowah left
kboga nom: use Test; eval 'NoSuchClass.new()'; ok $! ~~ Exception, 'death to instantiating nonexistent class'; diag($!); ok "$!" ~~ / NoSuchClass /, 'error for "NoSuchClass.new()" mentions NoSuchClass'; 20:06
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«ok 1 - death to instantiating nonexistent class␤# Could not find sub &NoSuchClass␤ok 2 - error for "NoSuchClass.new()" mentions NoSuchClass␤»
TimToady 'example' is kinda long, maybe 'eg'
kboga Could not find sub &NoSuchClass --> err?
pmichaud I fear 'eg' looks too much like 'eq'. Maybe with dots as "e.g."? 20:07
can always just use "code", too.
masak or just "ex".
pmichaud "ex" I can live with.
masak and "sp".
TimToady code would be okay to
and same length as spec 20:08
ex and sp are okay too
or just color coded buttons :)
kboga brb
20:10 tyatpi_ joined
pmichaud I'll finish converting features.txt, then commit, then people can hack on improvements :) 20:10
TimToady wates with baited breath 20:11
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TimToady
.oO(Diet of Worms?)
 20:11
diakopter lol 20:12
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kboga rakudo: use Test; eval 'NoSuchClass.new()'; ok $! ~~ Exception, 'death to instantiating nonexistent class'; diag($!); ok "$!" ~~ / NoSuchClass /, 'error for "NoSuchClass.new()" mentions NoSuchClass'; 20:14
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«ok 1 - death to instantiating nonexistent class␤# Could not find sub &NoSuchClass␤ok 2 - error for "NoSuchClass.new()" mentions NoSuchClass␤»
[Coke] hopefully moritz's perl has JSON.
I'm surprised no one has asked why it's not written in p6 yet. 20:15
diakopter but then one would need to choose which implementation's variant of the language to use 20:16
TimToady thought of it, and also thought it would be rude :) 20:17
kboga rakudo: use Test; eval 'NoSuch::Subclass.new()'; ok $! ~~ Exception, 'death to instantiating nonexistent::class'; diag($!); ok "$!" ~~ / 'NoSuch::Subclass' /, 'error for "NoSuch::Subclass.new()" mentions NoSuch::Subclass'; 20:18
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«ok 1 - death to instantiating nonexistent::class␤# Cannot find sub NoSuch::Subclass␤ok 2 - error for "NoSuch::Subclass.new()" mentions NoSuch::Subclass␤»
kboga nom: use Test; eval 'NoSuch::Subclass.new()'; ok $! ~~ Exception, 'death to instantiating nonexistent::class'; diag($!); ok "$!" ~~ / 'NoSuch::Subclass' /, 'error for "NoSuch::Subclass.new()" mentions NoSuch::Subclass';
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«ok 1 - death to instantiating nonexistent::class␤# Could not find symbol 'NoSuch::&Subclass'␤not ok 2 - error for "NoSuch::Subclass.new()" mentions NoSuch::Subclass␤»
kboga Could not find symbol 'NoSuch::&Subclass --> hmm 20:19
masak in fact, it was the first thing I thought when I saw moritz++'s script: "huh, this would have been an excellent thing to dogfood." but then I saw that it used modules and stuff, so I assumed moritz had a reason or two.
20:19 bluescreen10 left
[Coke] MM, mainly the modules, I'd wager. 20:19
Seems like JSON would be a nice one to have with a grammar. 20:20
masak there is one. 20:22
in the book, even.
pmichaud pmichaud.com/sandbox/features.html # after converting features.txt to features.json 20:23
gist.github.com/1107922 # full features.json
"code" and "spec" entries are allowed to be either single string urls or an array of string urls 20:24
diakopter I suggest it should live as a page on perl6.org itself eventually
pmichaud diakopter: catch up, dude. perl6.org/compilers/features :-P
TimToady seems to be missing the code button
pmichaud I don't have any code entries there...
let me put that back.
pmichaud.com/sandbox/features.html # updated with "code" link 20:26
okay, committing, pushing
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dalek atures: 6cd36f5 | pmichaud++ | / (4 files):
Radical rewrite. features.txt is now features.json, and process.pl has been simplified a fair bit. We now allow "code" and "spec" values for each item to have links to relevant examples and the Perl 6 specification.
 20:28
TimToady thanks! 20:29
pmichaud wates with baited breath for a flurry of TimToady++ commits :) 20:30
okay, I should head back home now and be a family member again. I'll bbi30 and will watch on/off for any issues with the code.
dalek atures: 36b78bf | Coke++ | Makefile:
add a 'clean' target.
 20:36
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pmichaud back home again 20:47
masak that was fast! 20:48
pmichaud light traffic this afternoon, plus wasn't all that far away.
there's a local cafe with wifi that I escape to when I need to do stuff without household distractions :) 20:49
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dalek atures: 5f65854 | pmichaud++ | features. (2 files):
Remove features.txt from repo, update features.json for Rakudo master.
 20:55
atures: 336c0d9 | larry++ | features.json:
add a few codes
 21:10
masak Moose is so nice. it makes programming Perl 5, which was already a fairly pleasant experience, even better. 21:17
dalek atures: 16a29c8 | pmichaud++ | features.json:
Fix multiple code entries from commit 5f65854.
 21:19
pmichaud oops, referenced wrong commit. oh well.
should've been 336c0d9 in the commit message :)
masak the biggest complaint I have with Perl 5, syntactically, is that sometimes I expect some postcircumfix operator to Just Work on an expression (because it does in Perl 6), but then it often turns out that I need to parenthesize the expression. 21:20
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kboga rakudo: @*INC.push: 't/spec/packages' 21:26
p6eval rakudo 922500: ( no output )
kboga nom: @*INC.push: 't/spec/packages'
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Method 'push' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤current instr.: '_block1002' pc 91 ((file unknown):73461515) (/tmp/RLjWEpse3R:1)␤»
masak huh? CPAN's Test::More doesn't have a dies_ok? :) 21:28
guess I have to write my own, then...
...using "eval" instead of "try". how gauche :P 21:29
kboga rakudo: .say for @*INC
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«lib␤/home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤/home/p6eval//p2/lib/parrot/3.6.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤.␤»
BinGOs Test::Exception has a dies_ok() 21:30
masak oh! thanks.
BinGOs++
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masak and throws_ok even checks how. excellent. 21:31
BinGOs was just PASSing by
21:32 dorlamm left
masak :P 21:32
tadzik better than skipping :) 21:33
masak or flunking :)
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tadzik nom: 1 #= why exactly am I broken? 21:50
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Whitespace character is not allowed as a delimiter at line 1, near " why exact"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 23611 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:6347) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:329)␤»
tadzik nom: 1 #=[while I work perfectly fine?]
p6eval nom: ( no output )
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masak ISTR this was a problem in master, too. 21:54
tadzik yes
21:55 dukeleto left
masak just grep for the error message. 21:57
tadzik it falls under token comment:sym<#=(...)> { I suppose 21:58
instead of token comment:sym<#=> {
jnthn Could always try a <!ws> before the <quote_EXPR> in the former. 22:02
moritz masak: I didn't do the script in p6 because 1) I wanted a well-tested template module 2) didn't want to compiler rakudo on feather2 and 3) didn't want to use rakudo on feather2 22:04
masak: 2) and 3) mostly because it's low memory - even the p5 CPAN client sometimes runs OOM on feather2
as do some of the tests in p5 code
masak oh, ok. 22:05
moritz [Coke]: I'm find with your json proposal 22:06
masak the first reason I guessed, but the latter two make sense as well.
tadzik jnthn: that seems to have fixed it 22:08
oooo, you do want to see that! 22:09
...okay, it's buggy. But! 22:10
wklej.org/id/567820/ 22:11
the first one was commented out because, for some reasons, it prints "potatoes" as well :P
it's full of ugly hacks, but it proves I'm on the right track :) 22:12
oh, and that first one is probably due to binding in nqp 22:13
wklej.org/id/567822/ this one works. Weird 22:15
okay. Morale boost achieved, I can go to sleep now :)
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jnthn tadzik++ 22:19
tadzik :)
masak 'night, #perl6. 22:26
22:26 masak left
kboga would @*INC need to be set up in src/main.nqp for nom? 22:26
pmichaud probably similar to @*ARGS, yes. 22:28
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pmichaud it's going to be a little challenging to handle, though, but @*INC needs to be a Rakudo array, which makes it a little more challenging to access from nqp 22:29
s/but/because/
lichtkind thou: great 22:30
thou: are you done with that tablet?
thou hi, lichtkind! yes, i think i'm done with it.
pmichaud in general, initializing things in MAIN (in src/main.nqp) is likely incorrect, because there are some scenarios in which that MAIN() probably won't be called.
kboga ic 22:32
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lichtkind thou: really great 22:40
thou thanks! 22:41
lichtkind thou: maybe you do the smallwww.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....let#trends section till i got the first tablet 22:43
www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....let#trends
thou: the things in the quote where meant to be transliterations done by purpose 22:45
jnthn sleep time & 22:57
thou lichtkind: yes, i thought so; but also it didn't read well to me, too distracting. i'd be ok with putting back the "ehm" perhaps, if you feel it sets a desirable tone. 22:58
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lichtkind thou: no its good 23:10
dont has to be there
sometimes some joke too muh are just distracting
jnthn: good night 23:11
thou: so you go on with the trends? 23:12
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uvtc Seems like the new Perl 6 features page could use a Camelia logo. Maybe add something like 23:37
<img src="camelia-logo-small.png" align="right">
to line 51 of the template.html file.
I don't think I've got a commit bit to perl6. 23:38
TimToady I thought they just gave you one 23:40
23:40 benabik left, benabik joined
uvtc I don't believe so. I'm new to github. Should I fork and send a pull req? 23:40
23:41 benabik left
uvtc Ooh, wanted to fix a typo on perl6.org also. 23:41
TimToady: I pointed out a broken link on perl6.org yesterday, but didn't ask for commit access to fix it. 23:43
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TimToady hugme: add uvtc 23:45
[Coke] do you need a "to" something? 23:46
TimToady I believe you are added--went to github 23:47
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uvtc TimToady: thank you. As I mentioned, I'm new to github, so I'm reading some docs right now. I think I'm supposed to clone, edit, commit, then push... 23:48
s/commit/add, then commit/ 23:49
TimToady well, you don't have to add something if it's already in the clone
uvtc I mean, 'git add' my change to my local index.
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TimToady I've never used git add 23:50
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TimToady (that I recall) 23:50
uvtc Perhaps instead of "git add; git commit" you use "git commit -a"? 23:51
PerlJam uvtc: or "git commit filename" (if filename is already added to the repo)
TimToady those are what I usually use
uvtc PerlJam: Oh, didn't know "git commit filename" actually adds then commits. Thanks, will try that out. 23:52
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dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 7bb0793 | (John Gabriele)++ | source/whatever/index.html:
minor spelling fix
 23:59

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