»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
flussence decides Pod::To::HTML could use a bit more shiny and gets to breaking it :) 00:25
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TimToady phenny: tell moritz your PM note on nested loops has a $net where you want @nets 00:49
phenny TimToady: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
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Wickedxter hello 01:09
sorear hi 01:10
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sjohnson hi 01:16
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sjohnson uses perl to do more japanese 01:20
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LimitSupremum__ so what happens if you attempt to match a junction with another junction? 04:21
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sorear LimitSupremum__: right-hand side always controls smartmatch behavior 04:31
LimitSupremum__ ah, thank you 04:32
are functions automatically applied to the elements individually? 04:35
e.g. 3|4|5 + 3 == 6|7|8
sorear yes 04:38
although you might need parens, and == definitely won't DWIM 04:39
LimitSupremum__ ah ~~, my mistake
sorear this is called "autothreading" in the documentation, no relation to OS threads
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sorear ~~ also won't do what you want 04:40
1|2 ~~ 1|2 means (1|2 ~~ 1) | (1|2 ~~ 2)
LimitSupremum__ hmm
so to test actual equality of teh junctions?
what would one do
sorear $j1.perl eq $j2.perl is probably the best way
generally, if you want to compare junctions, and you're not writing code for S03-junctions/ in roast, you're probably doing soemthing wrong 04:41
LimitSupremum__ how would that work if the junction is anonymous?
sorear (1|2).perl
LimitSupremum__ well, that's easy enough
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uvtc my @a = <a b c d>; say @a[-1]; 05:13
nom: my @a = <a b c d>; say @a[-1];
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Cannot use negative index -1 on Array␤current instr.: 'rethrow' pc 834552 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:226541) (src/gen/CORE.setting:5198)␤»
uvtc nom: my @a = <a b c d>; say @a[*-1]; 05:14
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«d␤»
uvtc What's the rationale for requiring the star in there? Why not access the last element via @a[-1]?
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moritz uvtc: catching accidental indexing with a negative number when using a calculation rather than a literal 05:21
phenny moritz: 00:49Z <TimToady> tell moritz your PM note on nested loops has a $net where you want @nets
moritz phenny: tell TimToady thanks, fixed 05:22
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
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uvtc moritz: Can you tell me how you read "@a[*-1]"? 05:24
moritz read aloud?
or what's the question?
uvtc Yes. It seems arbitrary to me, and I thought maybe there's a mnemonic that I'm not getting. 05:25
moritz "@a indexed by whatever minus one" 05:26
uvtc Ah! I see. Maybe the mnemonic is, "whatever it's size, minus 1". :)
Thanks, moritz. 05:27
moritz right 05:28
sorear uvtc: note that *-1 is a code reference, and you can use any code reference for indexing 05:34
rakudo: my @a = 'a' .. 'z'; say @a[-> $l { rand * $l }] 05:35
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«p␤»
sorear rakudo: say (*-1)(26)
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«25␤»
moritz rakudo: say (*-1).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«WhateverCode()␤»
pmichaud in general, the star means "whatever"
my $x = * - 2; say $x(5)
nom: my $x = * - 2; say $x(5)
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«3␤» 05:36
pmichaud nom: my @a = 5,10,15 ... *; say @a[5];
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«30␤»
uvtc sorear: When you say "code reference", do you mean that `*-1` evaluates to the same sort of thing as `sub { say "hi" }`? 05:38
TimToady yes, that's what he means
phenny TimToady: 05:22Z <moritz> tell TimToady thanks, fixed
TimToady though you can leave the 'sub' out in p6 05:39
uvtc TimToady: and does something like `-> $x { rand * $x }` also evaluate to the same sort of thing? A "code reference"?
TimToady yes
we tend to call that form a lambda when we're not careful :) 05:40
since -> looks a little like a lambda that got run over
uvtc TimToday: I see how the code ref returned from `sub ...` returns something I could call ... Is a "code reference" always something I could save and later call? 05:41
TimToady like bare {}, the -> form is officially a Block rather than a Routine, so it's transparent to 'return'
yes, you can always call anything Callable, as long as you give it appropriate args
pmichaud nom: my $code = -> $x { rand * $x }; say $code.WHAT
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
uvtc nom: my $code = -> $x {rand * $x }; say $code(3); 05:42
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0.459344633144621␤»
TimToady even methods are just routines that happen to treat their first arg as an invocant
uvtc nom: my $code = sub ($x) { rand * $x }; say $code(3); 05:43
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1.88911139102403␤»
sorear uvtc: I call them code references because I'm a Perl 5 geezer and think ref($x) eq 'CODE'
moritz rakudo: say Block ~~ Code
uvtc sorear: ha :)
TimToady well, other than there's no 'ref' anymore, and no 'CODE', yes
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
sorear uvtc: now, it's probably better to call them callable objects, because they ~~ Callabele
moritz TimToady: but still Code
uvtc But in what way is `*-1` callable? 05:44
sorear rakudo: say (*-1)(42)
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«41␤»
pmichaud *-1 is like -> $x { $x - 1 }
it's syntactically changed to become a lambda
TimToady the * form is an inside-out way to do currying
uvtc Let's leave cooking out of it.
;)
TimToady so *-1 is really kinda like &infix:<->.assuming(Nil,1) 05:45
hmm I wonder if Nil works for that
pmichaud feels certain he has forgotten to pack something for his trip. :(
TimToady too
when are you gettin' there? 05:46
pmichaud approximately ~10h30 on Fri
TimToady us too
are you coming via Helsinki?
pmichaud no, via CPH. Turns out I'm on the same flight as jnthn++ and masak++ :)
tadzik o/
moritz pmichaud: can I delete the qregex branch in the nqp repo 05:47
TimToady we're getting in at 1040 via finnish air
so we should look for each other
pmichaud indeed. jnthn says he already has bus tickets to the hotel
TimToady ooh, how forward looking
pmichaud maybe we should plan to gather at the airport's meeting point (assuming it has one?) 05:48
tadzik ooh, how did he buy these tickets? 05:52
TimToady pmichaud: not clear from the airport website
pmichaud TimToady: we could meet at the information office, maybe? #7 on the map
(1st floor) 05:53
TimToady sounds good, doesn't look like a huge terminal 05:55
pmichaud agreed
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pmichaud moritz: yes, the qregex branch can go. 05:57
uvtc For documenting REPL sessions, it might be useful if the '>' prompt were prefixed with the name of the implementation.
Also might be useful for folks who have multiple implementations in use.
pmichaud "What other implementations are there?" ;-)
uvtc Aside from rakudo, I only know of the one that I can't properly pronounce. :) I think it's "neek-za". 05:58
TimToady perl6: my $decr = &infix:<->.assuming(Nil,1); say $decr(42) 05:59
p6eval niecza v8-51-g785e335: OUTPUT«-41␤»
..rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<->'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any $x = { ... })␤:(Int $a, Int $b)␤:(Num $a, Num $b)␤:(Rat $a, Rat $b)␤:(Rat $a, Int $b)␤:(Int $a, Rat $b)␤:(Complex $a, Complex $b)␤:(Duration $a, Duration $b)␤:(Instant $a…
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No compatible multi variant found: "$decr"␤ at /tmp/UEIDrS57dP line 1, column 44 - line 2, column 1␤»
TimToady -41!?!
sorear: ^^
pmichaud the pronunciation and meaning of "niecza" is a FAQ at our monthly p6 meetings :)
it's a FAQ w/o a current answer, too. 06:00
TimToady knee-ey-cha
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TimToady if it's gonna get a new name, sooner is better than later 06:01
sorear monthly p6 meanings?
pmichaud "ey" as in "ee" or "ay" ?
TimToady as in 'they' 06:02
uvtc or eye
pmichaud oh, I've been saying it pretty close to correctly then. So, soundex is solved.... now I just need the definition/meaning again :)
TimToady um...
pmichaud sorear: there's a group of perl enthusiasts in the north Dallas area that meet once per month to discuss P5 and P6 06:03
including a former P5 pumpking :)
TimToady are you and jnthn allowed to fly on the same flight?
I thought that was against company policy...
pmichaud heh
I still remember the time I was driving the car that held both you and audreyt. :-)
uvtc pmichaud: What I meant by documenting REPL sessions ... when writing about Perl 6 (or sending a friend some output in your terminal window), 06:04
TimToady I still remember the first Perl Whirl cruise that the pythonistas shoulda sunk
pmichaud uvtc: yes, I understand. I'm undecided as to whether I want to change rakudo's prompt there.
uvtc pmichaud: having the name of the implementation in the prompt makes it easier to discern from source code.
pmichaud uvtc: I'll think about it. Perhaps ask around on the channel and see what others would prefer. 06:06
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moritz currently the backtraces clearly show which compiler you're running :-) 06:07
pmichaud TimToady: is it better if jnthn and I make sure we sit at opposite ends of the airplane? ;-)
TimToady well, that helps the statistics *slightly*, though perhaps not as much as if you both sit in back. 06:08
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TimToady which also helps only slightly... 06:08
pmichaud well, other than the EU->US adapter plug that I can't locate, I can't think of what else I'm forgetting. :-|
TimToady meds, passport, computer
pmichaud got those
moritz phone
cloths
credit card 06:09
pmichaud that too.... even checked what the international rates are going to be
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Su-Shee my eu-us adaptor is always in my this-bag-where-you-put-cosmetics-and-toothbrush in. because I never forget that. a second one is left in the luggage. :) 06:09
good morning ;)
tadzik raincoat?
pmichaud Su-Shee: that's where my adaptor is usually also... only it's not there this time. I think I might've left it in Pisa.
tadzik good morning Su-Shee :) 06:10
pmichaud I live in Texas and therefore do not own a raincoat. :)
tadzik :)
pmichaud I thought about bringing a light jacket... but there's not enough room left in the suitcase and if I wear it to the airport it's going to look really really really odd
tadzik then take you leather jacket and a cowboy hat ;) 06:11
pmichaud since we're now heading into our 41st consecutive day with 100+ temperatures
pmichaud eagerly looks forward to being in riga where the temperatures will be much saner. 06:12
sorear lovely
pmichaud and if it rains, that's all the better. I'm not sure I remember what rain feels like. :)
(city is going on water restrictions this week due to lack of rain)
tadzik ooh 06:14
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moritz we are on sun restrictions, due to the lack of sun shine in the last weeks 06:16
:-)
mberends interesting, OpenMP accelerates floating point vector processing by about 30% even on an Atom N270 (integer vectors unaffected).
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JimmyZ good afternoon, #perl6 06:19
tadzik flies away 06:20
uvtc TimToady wrote: "like bare {}, the -> form is officially a Block rather than a Routine, so it's transparent to 'return'". What does that mean, "transparent to 'return'"? 06:24
sorear moritz: your city has figured out how to ration sun? 06:27
uvtc: the "return" statement throws an exception, which causes any number of subs to return until the "correct" one is reached
uvtc: this is useful with visitor pattern and related things - sub foo() { visit(-> $x { return $x if $x > 10 }) } 06:28
pmichaud uvtc: I usually say it by saying that 'return' always returns from a sub, not from a lambda. 06:31
so if you use 'return' in a lambda, it's referring to the sub that contains the lambda, not the lambda itself.
okay, well, whatever I've forgotten to pack I'll just have to live without or obtain on the trip. Time for sleep here -- bbiaw. 06:32
uvtc Ah, I get it. Thanks, guys.
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nwc10 mberends: what's an "unexpected vacation in Croatia?" Is it :-) or :-(? I've only had expected vacations in Croatia 07:29
moritz finds all vacations ':-)', whether expected or unexpected 07:31
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nwc10 I find that there's a distinction between "vacation" and vacation 07:39
The latter is where I get to do what I want to do
the former is where I'm being told that it's a holiday, but I'm not getting any choice about what I'm doing, and it's actually just a different form of work 07:40
mberends nwc10: you have a long backlog range :) There was an unexpected cancellation of work :-[ that resulted in a last minute trip to Slovenia and Croatia :-]
nwc10 as in "a change is as good as a rest"
mberends: I don't specifically have a long backlog. I'm searching the IRC logs 07:41
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nwc10 moritz: For some reason irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-08-07 is the last page with a "next day" link. Is that a surprise? 07:48
moritz nwc10: there's a known bug that applies always to yesterday, and I've been unable to track it down 07:52
I fear that bug might get cached
clearing the cache brought most of the links back 07:53
OH
of course, the cache is the problem
the day for the current page doesn't have a link for tomorrow, because that page would be empty 07:54
and when the day switches over, the cached version is used
moritz faceplams
nwc10++
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szabgab tadzik: I am in Riga already and you? 08:05
nwc10 moritz: glad to be of teddybear service :-)
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moritz the fix is very simple (I hope), once you know what the issue is 08:12
just modify the cache key if the requested date equals the current date
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tadzik szabgab: I'm just before the takeoff, I'm landing 13:35 or so 08:30
13:55 actually 08:31
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tadzik still need to figure out how to get from the airport to the 1st hotel :) 08:32
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moritz just apparate 08:47
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jnthn morning, #perl6 08:53
sorear o/
tadzik hello jnthn
moritz \o 08:54
tadzik departs
szabgab tadzik 13 euro taxi voucher
see you later
moritz fwiw I've pushed the fix for the irclog thingy, we'll see in a few days if it works 08:55
jnthn tadzik: good journey!
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moritz jnthn: I want to install an outer exception handler for nom programs 09:04
jnthn: how would I do that?
I tried to put a try { } around the
{YOU_ARE_HERE}
jnthn moritz: Same as in master I guess...there's a HLL hook
moritz in src/core/you_are_here.pm, but that doesn't work out 09:05
jnthn No, that won't do it.
Compiler.pm needs to get a backtrace method, iirc 09:06
moritz I can't use the setting there :(
jnthn Maybe you can do something like pir::compreg__Ps('perl6').^add_method('backtrace', ...) 09:09
(Near the end of the setting)
moritz woah
moritz messed up p5 and p6 in the last irclog commit 09:13
used $str ~= 'string to concat' :-)
sorear the other day I tried to use &&= in C++ 09:14
moritz ... and within a few minutes I got two emails telling me about server errors 09:16
moritz should really check even the simplest changes before deploying them
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moritz jnthn: uhm, nqp seems to lack the facilty for backtrace interception 09:30
nqp's HLL::Compiler, that is 09:31
maybe I need to put that back first
jnthn ah 09:32
maybe it got lost at some point
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moritz in HLL::Compiler, how do I do a can() check? 09:45
self.HOW.can(Type, 'method') ?
or pir::can?
moritz tries pir::can 09:50
thinking about it, the introspection thingy is probably code smell 09:53
we should just provide a default backtrace method, and call that
and the user can still subclass and override 09:54
jnthn yeah, if we can get the default PIR backtrace spat out in that default method. 09:59
Though we need a way to do the --ll-backtrace thing too
moritz right 10:00
jnthn Maybe factor the actual code that runs stuff into one place then
moritz %adverbs<ll-backtrace> ?? self.ll-backtrace($e) !! self.backtrace($e) 10:01
and self.backtrace redispatches to ll-backtrace by default
jnthn if $no_ll_backtace { self.doit } else { try { self.doit; CATCH { self.a_error_is_vomit } } }
er, wrong way around :) 10:02
if $ll_backtrace ...
So we just don't catch the exception at all if --ll-backtrace is set
moritz jnthn: I feel that I don't quite understand the responsibilities of the various methods in HLL::Compiler, so I don't want to refactor too much 10:04
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moritz hm, one more thing 10:23
it would make sense to not only control printing of the backtrace, but also of the message itself 10:24
so maybe 'backtrace' isn't the best name
should I rename that to 'exception'? or 'handle-exception' or so?
but the general approach seems to work out fine, I have a prototype running locally 10:26
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jnthn handle-exception maybe 10:32
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moritz www.similarsites.com/site/perl6.org not too bad :-) 12:02
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takadonet morning all 12:12
moritz morning takadonet 12:13
Util morning takadonet
jnthn hi takadonet
takadonet working on a solution for rosettacode.org/wiki/Death_Star and realized that missing a ceiling function :( 12:14
moritz perl6: say 0.5.ceil 12:15
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«Method 'ceil' not found for invocant of class 'Rat'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/x2pU29s1Ui␤»
..niecza v8-51-g785e335: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method ceil in class Rat␤ at /tmp/qz_5hnUzVe line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1996 (CORE C939_ANON @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1997 (CORE module-CORE …
..pugs: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz perl6: say 0.5.ceiling
takadonet perl6: say 0.5.ceiling
p6eval pugs, rakudo 922500, niecza v8-51-g785e335: OUTPUT«1␤»
takadonet hmmm never did try niecza on that problem 12:16
moritz nqp: try { die "foo"; CATCH { pir::say($_) } }
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'nqp;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 3863 (src/Regex/Cursor.pir:244)␤»
jlaire perl6: say -(-0.5).floor
p6eval pugs, rakudo 922500, niecza v8-51-g785e335: OUTPUT«1␤»
takadonet floor is there
moritz nom: say 0.5.ceil
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Method 'ceil' not found for invocant of class 'Rat'␤current instr.: '_block1002' pc 63 ((file unknown):136) (/tmp/_Jt2TcdBv9:1)␤»
moritz nom: say 0.5.ceiling
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤current instr.: 'Bridge' pc 783300 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:203151) (src/gen/CORE.setting:2031)␤» 12:17
moritz ouch
nom: say 0.5e0.ceiling
takadonet yuppers
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤current instr.: 'Bridge' pc 783300 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:203151) (src/gen/CORE.setting:2031)␤»
jlaire nom: say 0.5.floor
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0␤»
takadonet anyway the solution given for C language will be easy to golf down Lots of array * array operations 12:18
moritz nqp: try { pir::die("foo"); CATCH { say($_) } }
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«foo␤»
moritz nqp: try { pir::die("foo"); CATCH { say($_); say($_.backtrace) } }
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«foo␤12␤»
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[Coke] $ ack ceiling t/spectest.data 12:39
# integration/99problems-41-to-50.t # err: Could not find sub &ceiling
moritz nom: say floor 0.5 12:42
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0␤»
moritz [Coke]: will look into it
in fact I have a patch already, but need to test it 12:43
[Coke] moritz++
moritz the infinite recursion came from Num.ceiling being misspalled Num.ceil
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Util takadonet: When you are ready to post your Death Star solution on RC, I will be glad to help if you need any guidance on account creation, first post, mylang template, etc. 13:10
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takadonet Util: sweet thanks . I'm at work right now but probably finish at home ( done work in about 7 hours) 13:15
hopefully all I have deal with is ceiling issue
moritz which ceiling issue? :-) 13:16
dalek kudo/nom: 5d1f4db | moritz++ | src/core/ (3 files):
fix ceiling, add sub form
takadonet !!!
JimmyZ wonders why ceiling instead of ceil ? 13:17
moritz fixed ceiling, but broke the backtrace printer he was working on 13:19
mikemol JimmyZ: I'm guessing for the same reason Unicode is supported...it's more clear to the uninitiated. 13:21
ceil() is obvious to any C programmer, or any frequent user of any langauge designed to be obvious to C programmers.
JimmyZ well, ceil is shoter than ceiling 13:22
mikemol P6 seems to want to cast off assumptions driven by 40-year-old technologies.
JimmyZ s/shoter/shorter/
mberends shall we discuss the naming of the ceiling of the bikeshed before painting it? ;-) 13:23
mikemol s'ok. Not wearing my glasses, so my astigmatism made 'shoter' look like 'shorter' anyway. :)
daniel-s hey, are there any successful professional engineer types here?
mikemol daniel-s: Depends on what you mean by that, I guess.
daniel-s I know that junior in a job title is usually a less experienced person
ie. a junior structural engineer is one that probably has less experience that a regular engineer 13:24
jnthn nom: subset ProfessionalEngineer of Success
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "subset Pro"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 23611 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:6348) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:329)␤»
jnthn aww :)
std: subset ProfessionalEngineer of Success
p6eval std 516268a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at /tmp/pgHPq4ma3Y line 1:␤------> subset ProfessionalEngineer of ⏏Success␤ expecting typename␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
jnthn oh!
Success is not declared :)
jnthn gets back to his slide writing rather than code punning :)
mikemol daniel-s: A lot of "professional engineer" pursuites have the word 'professional' tied to some sort of certification or license.
daniel-s analyst means someone less successful, to "structural analyst" is probably someone who went to a crappy university or something and hasn't been as successful as a proper engineer 13:25
mikemol daniel-s: Hm. I'm liable to take issue with just about every point in that sentence.
Which means I should probably put down the keyboard and go take a shower...
mberends I think successful simply means you haven't failed at it, and professional simply means you make money from it. 13:26
mikemol Today's not a good day to enter into a "but someone is wrong on the internet" mode. :)
daniel-s well, I'm just trying to figure out a job from its job title
Satellite Controller, Associate
what does associate mean in this case? 13:27
mberends that all looks rather hand-wavey
gfldex that's a question you should ask the person who wrote the job description
[Coke] (job by its title) that doesn't work. you need to talk to the person who is hiring. 13:28
daniel-s mikemol: my previous comments are just from brief conversations with a few HR people, it's a very big generalisation, if not completely wrong
[Coke] or hope the job description is accurate.
In my limited experience, the adjectives you're talking about (in the us market) have no bearing on the actual job. things that require certifications are different, and you can check out what the cert means. (except in the case of IT, when certs are meaningless) 13:29
jnthn From my limited experience of getting hired and then helping with the hiring process in the IT world, the most valuable thing is the interested party and the folks who're hiring having a decent conversation about what the job entails and the expectations of either side. Trying to convey all of that in a couple of word job title is impossible, and a more wordy job description tends to only be so much better. 13:33
daniel-s I'm more excited about this job 13:37
www.seek.com.au/Job/graduate-networ...k/20388387
jnthn: do you have any tips/suggestions for interviews
PerlJam this is an odd conversation for #perl6 :) 13:38
daniel-s is there anyone who you interviewed that really impressed you?
PerlJam: I think that's my fault, I started it
PerlJam daniel-s: there's no blame here, just an observation. 13:42
moritz fwiw I got at least one job interview through #perl6
PerlJam having been on #perl-ish channels for a couple of decades or so, you get used to the eclectic conversations :)
moritz (and the company would have hired me, but I declined) 13:43
daniel-s really?
jnthn daniel-s: Mostly I'd say just be honest about what you do/don't know, and share something about your ambitions and interests too. The only interview I remember doing where somebody left with an "omfg" look on their face was when they tried to BS about how much they knew, and I called them on it. :)
moritz daniel-s: yes, really
daniel-s: though it was a p5 programming job 13:44
PerlJam jnthn: I know Perl 6 and have been using it for 12 years! ;)
jnthn PerlJam: No, nobody tried that one on me yet :)
moritz search.dilbert.com/comic/Unix%20Experience 13:45
jnthn Closest I had was somebody who "early adopted" a Microsoft technology...the year before the first public beta of it came out. I thought it felt wrong, but didn't say anything in case I'd mis-remembered. But I checked up afterwards and...sure enough. :)
jnthn 's company hired somebody who I initially came to know over #perl6, btw :) 13:46
moritz lemme guess... he lived in .se, was a prolific blogger and bug report? 13:47
daniel-s ...well, if anyone's interested in an aerospace engineer who wants to work in the space industry, PM me :)
jnthn moritz: Something like that ;-)
[Coke] thought all aero engineers ended up writing code, anyway. 13:48
cognominal masak: seing your gist gist.github.com/1139458 if you like pentominoes and obfuscation, you should visit paris.mongueurs.net/assombri/opc3/S...ard.tar.gz TPJ is dead, but a copy mentionning the winner of that contest if here www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol3_3/t...-0015.html 13:50
that was the first time (and hopefully the only one) I was proud to be declared demented. 13:51
oops, masak is not around 13:52
moritz phenny: tell masak about irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-08-11#i_4262765
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
cognominal thx, moritz. I always forget about phenny. 13:57
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tadzik_kindle hello from Riga 14:06
szabgab ping
jnthn o/ tadzik_kindle in Riga!
moritz ~~
tadzik_kindle free wifi is nowhere :<
jnthn :/ 14:07
tadzik_kindle seen szabgab
aloha szabgab was last seen in #perl6 5 hours 13 mins ago saying "see you later".
tadzik_kindle bah
daniel-s where's riga? 14:08
moritz ping
tadzik_kindle in Latvia
moritz daniel-s: pong
daniel-s seen moritx 14:09
aloha Sorry, I haven't seen moritx.
daniel-s seen moritz
aloha moritz was last seen in #perl6 16 seconds ago saying "daniel-s: pong".
tadzik_kindle Riga looks like a small Warsaw :)
daniel-s that's what I was looking for
why are you in Latvia?
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jnthn Because they have Black Balsam! 14:09
moritz there's YAPC::EU 14:10
tadzik_kindle there'sa big Perl conference in here soon
jnthn tadzik_kindle: How's the weather there?
jnthn hopes better than here, where it's currently hammering it down
moritz gist.github.com/1138149 # another backtrace iteration 14:11
can't add it to the setting yet, because I need to distinguish parse errors from runtime errors first 14:12
flussence tadzik! \o/ 14:13
jnthn moritz: nice :)
pmichaud good morning, #perl6
moritz good am, pm
jnthn moritz: See export trait which looks to see if we're compiling or not.
o/ pmichaud
flussence I'm doing stuff with this today: github.com/flussence/Pod-To-HTML
14:14 tadzik_kindle left
moritz flussence: is that based on tadzik++'s Pod/To/HTML.pm ? 14:15
flussence yeah
thought I'd tweak it a bit :)
moritz rakudo: 1 1 14:16
p6eval rakudo 922500: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "1 1"␤»
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moritz jnthn: I fear that the detection like in the 'export' won't work in my case 14:18
pmichaud grabs latest versions of nom/nqp before boarding.
also mail.
moritz jnthn: because the exception handler is probably not in the dynamic scope where %*COMPILING is set 14:19
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moritz pmichaud: pull nqp again :-) 14:19
dalek p: 051792c | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
put back the ability to add a custom backtrace printer

Since it prints the exception too and not only the backtrace, it is now renamed to 'handle-exception', and the command line option for disabling it is called --ll-exception
pmichaud pulled. 14:20
moritz++
jnthn pmichaud: Safe flight
pmichaud: Internal one I guess, with another change to come?
pmichaud jnthn: thanks. yes, internal first to Newark, NJ, then to CPH 14:21
jnthn Ah, that routing. OK :)
pmichaud so, I get some time in NJ before hopping the pond
PerlJam pmichaud: in case I don't see you on Saturday ... Happy Birthday!
:-)
pmichaud PerlJam: thanks!
moritz oh, pmichaud++
er, pmichaud.age++
:-)
pmichaud I should be online on Sat, that's the p6 hackathon day
moritz wait, that's in advance...
moritz should wait a bit
pmichaud moritz: it's okay, time is virtual for me anyway 14:22
especially for the next couple of days :-)
by traveling to riga I guess I get to increment $!age a bit sooner than I would if I was still here in Texas :)
this will likely be the first time that I'll be able to celebrate my birthday in sub-80F weather :-) 14:23
jnthn ooh :) 14:24
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flussence nom: state $a 14:26
p6eval nom: ( no output )
flussence nom: state $a; say 'alive'
p6eval nom: ( no output ) 14:27
flussence segfaults for me :(
jnthn nom: state $a; say $a;
p6eval nom: ( no output )
jnthn nom: state $a; say $a.WHAT;
p6eval nom: ( no output )
jnthn nom: state $a = 1; say $a.WHAT;
p6eval nom: ( no output )
jnthn huh.
jnthn thought we had passing tests in state.t... 14:28
flussence I get gist.github.com/1139781
pmichaud I get a segfault also.
nom: { state $a = 1; say $a.WHAT; } # possible clue 14:29
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
jnthn hmmmm 14:30
yeah, caught segfault in VS debugger
It seems that when we ask the Parrot Sub for its associated Perl 6 sub, we get back NULL
pmichaud does the mainline get a Perl 6 ub? 14:31
*sub
jnthn It should do.
moritz nope
jnthn Well, not a Sub
But a Block at least.
moritz shakes his head
jnthn I'm guessing somehow it's not doing though.
moritz: You know why not, ooc? 14:32
moritz jnthn: no, I only know that it shows up as Mu in my backtraces, not as Sub or Code or whatever
jnthn ah
oh, yeah, comp_unit just calls <statementlist> 14:33
jnthn is a bit surprised this didn't break more.
pmichaud maybe can set something up in .unitstart 14:34
(STD.pm6 has a .unitstart)
oh, so do we :-) 14:35
jnthn It's easy enough to do in comp_unit
Patching.
1 line patch, all being well :) 14:36
14:36 wtw left
jnthn oh, turns out not 14:38
unitstart it is :P
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pmichaud I think I'll see if I can catch some air. bbiaw 14:40
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moritz nom: say so %*COMPILING 14:48
p6eval nom: ( no output ) 14:49
bbkr_ how can I pack double values ("d" directive in P5), for example 1.5 -> \x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\xF8\x3F ? Any implemented solution?
tadzik mcdonalds++
jnthn tadzik can has cheezburger
moritz actually the problem is the other way round as anticipated - %*COMPILING is always true in the exception handler 14:50
nom: say "\x00".ord
jnthn oh.
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0␤»
moritz bbkr_: do you want a Str or a Buf?
tadzik jnthn: can has tea, and can has internetz :)
bbkr_ Buf
moritz bbkr_: Buf.new(0, 0, 0, ... 0xF8, 0x3F) 14:51
bbkr_ moritz: I need to pack any double value into Buf, this "1.5" was just an example. 14:53
tadzik flussence++ 14:54
flussence: does it still loook like the rest of the synopses?
moritz bbkr_: no idea, sorry
flussence for the most part, yes
tadzik nice 14:55
flussence I've got the =title block filling in the <title> and adding a <h1> at the top of the page now
tadzik I think that should be =TITLE actualy
bbkr_ pretty much I need equivalent of pack("V", 666) but for double values
flussence s:i/title/title/ # :)
tadzik see feather.perl6.nl:3000/s26.html#Semantic blocks
flussence yeah, that's the one
also it makes a half-baked attempt to put =DESCRIPTION and the like in meta tags 14:56
tadzik niice
flussence (I'm tempted to go off and write a HTML::Tag class to make the escaping look neater... it's already taking 2.5 minutes per run here though :) 14:57
tadzik only? It was taking me 4 minutes :) 14:58
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tadzik well, the whole run, of S26 parsing 14:59
flussence it was about 2.0 when I started :)
moritz finds that he doesn't understand the dynamic scopes involved in the exception thingy
tadzik oh :) 15:00
doesn't matter, keep up the good work
daniel-s I just heard there was a shooting in Tallinn 15:01
why the hell is everyone shooting everyone!
</rant>
tadzik oh, we had one in Warsaw yesterday as well
daniel-s wtf?!#!$!! 15:02
tadzik some gang stuff
moritz nqp: if %*foo { say 1 } else { say 2 } 15:05
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'nqp;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 3863 (src/Regex/Cursor.pir:244)␤»
moritz nom: if %*foo { say 1 } else { say 2 }
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2␤»
moritz nom: say %*foo 15:06
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable %*foo not found␤current instr.: 'rethrow' pc 835616 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:0) (src/gen/CORE.setting:5202)␤»
moritz nom: if %*foo<a> { say 1 } else { say 2 }
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Method 'at_key' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤current instr.: 'postcircumfix:<{ }>' pc 769877 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:196403) (src/gen/CORE.setting:836)␤»
15:07 daniel-s left
jnthn nom: say ?Failure.new 15:07
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p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤current instr.: 'new' pc 835680 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:226872) (src/gen/CORE.setting:5218)␤» 15:07
jnthn nom: say ?Failure.new('xxx')
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
moritz figured it must be a Failure
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moritz nom: if %*foo.defined { say 1 } else { say 2 } 15:09
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2␤»
moritz nom: my %*foo; if %*foo.defined { say 1 } else { say 2 }
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz nom: my %*foo; if %*foo { say 1 } else { say 2 }
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2␤»
moritz nom: my %*foo; %*foo<a> = 1; if %*foo { say 1 } else { say 2 }
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz nom: if pir::defined(%*foo) { say 1 } else { say 2 } 15:18
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2␤»
15:18 kst left
moritz nom: my %*foo; if pir::defined(%*foo) { say 1 } else { say 2 } 15:18
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1␤»
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sorear good * #perl6 16:04
mberends hi sorear 16:21
JimmyZ hello sorear 16:26
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tadzik hello 16:51
isBEKaml tadzik: o/ 16:52
16:52 Moukeddar left
tadzik restauranting with szabgab++ 16:52
isBEKaml tadzik: ah, at Riga, I guess? :) 16:53
tadzik aye :) 16:54
isBEKaml meatspace++
tadzik is stealing a wifi from every place possible, for there isn't one in my hotel 16:55
yapceurope.lv/ye2011/photo/t-shirts.html
jnthn Perhaps literally meatspace if it's a restaurant ;)
tadzik more like a beerspace for me
jnthn piwo! \o/ 16:56
jnthn looks forward to being in Riga tomorrow
tadzik when are you landing? 17:00
jnthn 10:25ish 17:01
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Moukeddar Hello guys :) 17:12
and Girls
since i discovered that Girls DO exist on the internet
:) 17:14
sjohnson they do? 17:18
jnthn Well, of course...the internet is for everyone. :)
flussence I noticed that nom has a working Str.bytes but not a Str.encode, can the stuff in one be used for the other?
jnthn flussence: .bytes tells you how many bytes it'd be if encoded...as....well something.
flussence utf-8 I think 17:19
jnthn wonders whether Str.bytes is bogus in that sense
flussence nom: '€'.bytes
p6eval nom: ( no output )
flussence nom: '€'.bytes.say
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«3␤»
jnthn At least, without specifying an encoding.
Yes, probably utf-8 in this case.
flussence nom: say $?ENC
p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Symbol '$?ENC' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/Kl6kpHJ3Gs:1)␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 154 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:111)␤»
flussence I imagine that'd default to utf-8
or maybe something from %ENV? 17:20
jnthn suspects it'd be $*ENC if it exists
(so you can change it in a given dynamic scope)
flussence that's what the spec tells me, anyway (S32/Str:232)
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masak \o/ 18:03
phenny masak: 13:52Z <moritz> tell masak about irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-08-11#i_4262765
masak looks 18:04
18:04 JimmyZ left
masak cognominal_: cool! will look it up. 18:05
cognominal_: I don't know if you're aware of my dlx-simple project, but... one of the goals is something like the opposite of obfuscation :) 18:06
masak eats a late dinner
I'm happy folks are reading my gists sometimes. it's almost like Twitter, but with documents :) 18:10
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flussence here's what I've got pod2html doing at the moment: gist.github.com/1140332 18:22
does the pod parser create objects for those <> formatting things? I might do those next
[Coke] flussence: I would prefer " as an attribute quote. 18:24
flussence I agree... most of those were there when I started, just haven't got around to changing it 18:25
[Coke] (unless ' is cromulent html5)
flussence " and ' are both approximately the same thing, the only difference being what you need to escape inside them 18:27
(and html lets you use barewords there too, but that's just *wrong*)
masak probably OK in html4 but definitely disallowed in xhtml. 18:28
I'm sometimes amused by those "that's just *wrong*" assessments. people are applying new ideals on old standards. that feels like a waste of heat...
flussence bareword attribs have so many ways to break that it's easier to just quote everything in the first place :) 18:30
masak same with not matching up <td> tags with </td> tags inside tables. it leads to a briefer, lighter html tag soup, which is something that all sgml-oid formats really need. :) 18:32
doesn't carry over to xhtml, of course, but that doesn't make it wrong in html 4.01. at least not by definition.
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[Coke] masak: (doesn't make it wrong) no, but I for one would tend to write my html4.01 more like xhtml where allowed. 18:48
(I tend to use xhtml for any work related stuff anyway, though) 18:49
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masak yes, me too. 18:51
unless there were special circumstances involved.
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masak TimToady: I pronounce the 'e' in 'niecza' as the 'e' in 'fetch'. 19:04
jnthn We should, like, have a Niecza pronunciation practice session at YAPC::EU :P 19:05
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pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6 19:51
masak pmichaud! \o/ 19:53
jnthn o/ pmichaud
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tadzik_kindle hello again 19:55
anyone still on the ground? :)
pmichaud I'm on the ground, for about another 90 mins 19:56
masak tadzik_kindle: I'm standing on my couch, so technically not on the ground.
colomon I'm at my office desk, same as always. ;)
tadzik_kindle dont fall! 19:57
masak sways dangerously
colomon ah, heck, it's been years since last my office chair collapsed out from under me. 19:58
pmichaud how do the collapse now?
*they?
grrr... silly lagged 3g network connection
huf do they collapse at all or have you stopped using chairs now?
colomon To be precise, I do use chairs, and have not had an office chair break in at least two or three years now. 19:59
felher Does nom support Grammars good enough that i can play with or should i use master instead? 20:00
pmichaud master for now
grammars this weekend
(in nom)
colomon I did suffer catastrophic chair failure at the Dublin Irish Festival Saturday night, on the other hand.
\o/
pmichaud maybe tomorrow, if I get enough power to do a decent amount of work on the plane
or if the plane has power outlets (unlikely)
colomon \o/ for grammars in nom, I mean 20:01
felher pmichaud++ : Very well :)
pmichaud if someone wants to upgrade me to business class in a hurry, I can work on them :)
diakopter har
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PerlJam pmichaud: Isn't TPF paying? You should have put in for business class to begin with :) 20:02
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pmichaud I try to keep my expenses to a minimum when someone else is footing the bill :) 20:02
moritz is pretty close to having Perl 6 level backtraces again in nom 20:03
pmichaud at least, within certain bounds of comfort and safety. I decided against traveling as cargo, for example.
moritz it's a bit convoluted, I fear
20:03 jaldhar joined
pmichaud I have had translatlantic flights with power outlets before... this just isn't likely to be one of them. 20:05
pmichaud noms cheezburger 20:06
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jnthn pmichaud: Don't remember outlets on any SAS longhaul I've done. :( 20:07
jnthn figures it's SAS anyway
pmichaud yes, it's SAS. Continental longhauls have often had power. 20:08
jnthn quite likes SAS generally
I almost have enough frequent flyer miles with them to actually do something.
pmichaud Continental seems to have discard the miles I accumulated with them. Guess I wasn't frequent enough. 20:09
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pmichaud time to head through security again... see you all tomorrow-ish 20:16
jnthn safe flight, happy hacking :) 20:17
See you at CPH :)
[Coke] great, now the TSA guy saw "hacking", and he's going to have to go through the slow line.
jnthn That Sucks Awfully. 20:18
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quietfanatic phenny: tell pmichaud timtoady says he's stuck in chicago because his plane broke down. 20:26
phenny quietfanatic: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
quietfanatic phenny: tell masak timtoady says he's stuck in chicago because his plane broke down.
phenny quietfanatic: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
quietfanatic phenny: tell jnthn timtoady says he's stuck in chicago because his plane broke down. 20:27
phenny quietfanatic: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
masak quietfanatic: aww.
phenny masak: 20:26Z <quietfanatic> tell masak timtoady says he's stuck in chicago because his plane broke down.
masak quietfanatic: I hope it turns out OK. safety first. 20:28
Tene Anyone here planning to go to PPW this year?
20:37 nsh left
diakopter quietfanatic: o hi 20:37
colomon oh noez! stuck in chicago? 20:38
diakopter I was stuck in DFW for 8 hours on Friday while TWO planes were broken; had to deplane from both. the 2nd one was eventually fixed.
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masak US planes break often because you use them too much :P 20:41
not you personally, diakopter. just people.
20:42 nsh left
diakopter heh 20:42
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masak 'night, #perl6 20:44
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dalek ast: 0b24db8 | diakopter++ | S0 (17 files):
fix a lot of smartlinks in S02; some I broke and some bitrotten by various spec edits
 21:46
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dalek ecs: 6e3e973 | diakopter++ | S12-objects.pod:
typo in S12
 21:53
ecs: 940ced0 | diakopter++ | S (5 files):
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/specs
diakopter someday I'll figure out how to avoid that merge branch master using TortoiseGit 21:59
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flussence diakopter: try doing a rebase before you commit 22:22
diakopter flussence: yes, I don't know how to do that in TortoiseGit 22:23
flussence oh, might be in a context menu somewhere...
diakopter I see the rebase option; I guess I do it after I commit but before I pull? 22:25
flussence no, before the commit 22:26
diakopter if I try it before the commit, it warns me my uncommitted changes will be lost 22:27
flussence it usually goes fetch -> rebase -> commit
the idea is you turn your current changes into patches on top of current HEAD instead of the one you had when you started
sorear with command-line git, you commit -> fetch -> rebase -> push 22:28
the middle two steps can be combined as pull --rebase
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diakopter committing first is what I thought 22:30
that correlates with what TortoiseGit is warning me 22:31
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diakopter I'll try that next time 22:31
flussence oh shit 22:39
whoops, wrong window
(note to self: stop breaking things) 22:40
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dalek ast: 8aaac76 | diakopter++ | S12- (22 files):
fix a bunch of smartlinks in S12, broken by me and TimToady++
 22:44
ast: 05c3d8d | diakopter++ | S02-builtin_data_types/ (5 files):
re-attempt to fix smartlinks in S02 to headings that contain C<>
diakopter we'll see if that fixes it just after the top of the hour 22:48
phenny: ask TimToady may I tackle the Literals section of S02 22:49
phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
22:58 crked joined
dalek ast: 777ed62 | diakopter++ | S12-enums/basic.t:
re-fix one more smartlink
 23:05
ast: cffa7e5 | diakopter++ | S02- (2 files):
fix a couple more smartlinks for S12
 23:19
23:20 molaf_ joined 23:23 molaf__ left 23:30 tokuhirom joined 23:46 Trashlord left

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