»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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[Coke] yawns 00:29
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moritz \o 06:06
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mberends o˩ 07:07
jnthn o/ moritz, mberends 07:16
mberends is trying to rebuild Rakudo/alpha by replacing svn checkouts with git clones 07:17
moritz I think alpha just needs a released parrot, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem 07:18
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mberends it's built, just fiddling with roast now 07:19
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moritz nom: say 0 ** 0 07:34
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«1␤»
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jnthn airport & 07:41
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tadzik o/ 08:47
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tadzik new HPatMoR chapter 08:48
masak perl6: say 0 ** 0
tadzik !
masak tadzik: !!!
p6eval pugs, rakudo a55346, niecza v8-55-g0db7bb8: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak tadzik: I'm at $work; why are you telling me this! >:( 08:49
:P
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tadzik haha! :P 08:52
masak sadist. 08:55
nom: say "tadzik".subst('t', 's').subst('z', '').subst('k', 'st') 08:57
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«sadist␤»
masak incontrovertible proof. 09:00
tadzik /o\
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mberends :) 09:08
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masak rakudo: sub all-perms { return [] unless @^l; map -> $e { [$e, @($_)] for all-perms grep * != $e, @l }, @l }; say .perl for all-perms [1, 2, 3] 09:58
p6eval rakudo a55346: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤[1, 3, 2]␤[2, 1, 3]␤[2, 3, 1]␤[3, 1, 2]␤[3, 2, 1]␤»
masak I keep coming back to wanting to write all-perms nicely.
This is the shortest I've managed so far. 09:59
moritz wonders if .permutations should be a built-in in List
masak well, I do keep re-implementing it. which seems to be an argument for putting it in the setting.
moritz or in the very least in List::Util or so 10:00
masak it isn't there already?!
moritz dunno 10:01
tadzik I don't know, it fails tests on nom!
tadzik hides
moritz masak: if it is, why do you keep re-implementing it?
tadzik oh, it doesn't actually build
masak moritz: because I keep looking for a primitive that'll make it easier to do so. 10:03
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moritz nom: module Foo::Bar; say 'alive'; 10:07
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«alive␤»
moritz nom: module List::Bar; say 'alive';
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Null PMC access in set_pmc_keyed()␤»
moritz that's what kills List::Utils
nom: class Str::Thingy { }
p6eval nom b0da69: ( no output )
moritz nom: module Str::Thingy { } 10:08
p6eval nom b0da69: ( no output )
moritz nom: module Array::Thingy { }
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Null PMC access in set_pmc_keyed()␤»
moritz nom: module Any::Thingy { }
p6eval nom b0da69: ( no output )
moritz nom: module Positional::Thingy { }
p6eval nom b0da69: ( no output )
moritz doesn't see the pattern
bbkr_ nom: say so "abc" ~~ /a ~ (c) (b)/; say $0 # this is weird. in rakudo it captured incorectly ( #77616 ) in nom it does not capture at all. 10:14
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤Any()␤»
moritz rakudo: say so "abc" ~~ /a ~ (c) (b)/; say $0 10:16
p6eval rakudo a55346: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤b␤»
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moritz nom: say List.WHO 10:20
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('gist')␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:4613␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/tmFdX5E7UQ:1␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/tmFdX5E7UQ:1␤␤»
moritz nom: pir::say List.WHO
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«Null PMC in say␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/fcYfNHxky8:1␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/fcYfNHxky8:1␤␤»
moritz nom: pir::say Any.WHO
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«get_string() not implemented in class 'Stash'␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/2mTyZVo7Z4:1␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/2mTyZVo7Z4:1␤␤»
moritz nom: pir::say pir::typeof Any.WHO
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«Stash␤»
moritz nom: pir::say pir::typeof List.WHO
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p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in name()␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/i837yIcvsv:1␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/i837yIcvsv:1␤␤» 10:20
moritz maybe that's what kills the 'module List::Utils;' 10:21
compare src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm line 424
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moritz nom: module Num::s; 10:28
p6eval nom b0da69: ( no output )
moritz oh, List is missing from add_stash in BOOTSTRAP.pm 10:30
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moritz nom: module Regex::Foo; # should also fail if my theory is correct 10:33
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Null PMC access in set_pmc_keyed()␤»
moritz compiles a potential fix 10:36
mberends watches p5chomp.t and p5chop.t pass on alpha 10:48
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daxim markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.p...6-language # look at the 2005 peak 11:34
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tadzik pugs' golden days, eh? 11:44
dalek kudo/nom: d31eef8 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
add a few missing stashes in BOOTSTRAP

This should fix the first compilation problem of List::Utils.
There are still a lot missing, but I get rather strange compilation errors when I trie to add them all at once, so a few at a time instead		 11:47
moritz arg, s/trie/try/
star: use List::Utils; say slding-window(<a b c>, 2).perl 11:51
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'List::Utils' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval/rakudo-star-2011.04/install/lib/parrot/3.3.0/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
moritz nom: sub f(@a is copy) { @a.shift }; my @b = 1, 2, ; f @b; say @b.perl 11:52
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤»
moritz rakudo: sub f(@a is copy) { @a.shift }; my @b = 1, 2, ; f @b; say @b.perl 11:54
p6eval rakudo a55346: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
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tadzik hmm, there was a similar problem with Pod::To, wasn't there? 11:57
moritz anywa, List::Utils now compiles
tadzik how about tests? 12:00
tadzik 's nom still builds
moritz fails some tests
it uses Parcel.iterator.list, which is NYI (or abandoned?) in nom
mberends ran test_summary.pl backported to alpha (2 hours) and forgot to specify --timing :/ 12:01
moritz nom: say (my @a = 1,2 , 3).clone 12:02
p6eval nom b0da69: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
moritz nom: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my @b = @a; @b.shift; say @a 12:07
p6eval nom d31eef: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
moritz ok, sliding-window and sliding-window-wrapped fixed 12:10
masak moritz++
tadzik cool 12:11
moritz nom: my $x = 5; $x div= 2; say $x
p6eval nom d31eef: OUTPUT«2␤»
masak tadzik: yes, but note that 2002 was almost as high. there was a slump in 2003-2004, when perl6-on-parrot was being built but not much progress could be seen from the outside. 12:12
tadzik: then Pugs happened.
tadzik I see 12:13
hmm 12:15
I need some warning on a bare =begin, seems that some people do that
mberends tell them "=begin what?" 12:16
tadzik that'd be cool ;)
I went for '=begin must be followed by an identifier, did you mean "=begin pod"?' though 12:17
bbkr_ tadzik: they treat it as good old "=pod", something that begins unidentified documentation block. it needs warning for sure.
Juerd tadzik: s/,/;/ 12:18
mberends that's better than "Malformed Pod =begin directive: see Synopsis 26 for correct Pod syntax" 12:19
moritz nom: say (1...*).grep( * <= 10 ).[0, 1, 2] 12:20
p6eval nom d31eef: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
tadzik Juerd: why so? A convention?
masak tadzik: I like that. maybe put 'did you mean...' in parens, though?
daxim MY BIKESHED IS BLUE
masak following Perl 5 warning tradition. 12:21
tadzik mebbe
Juerd tadzik: Google for semicolon if you wish to learn how it works :)
tadzik heh 12:22
is a comma wrong heer?
even here?
masak no.
moritz phenny: tell colomon in List::Util, you have take-while(@array, $condition). Wouldn't it be better to make that take-while($condigion, *@list) to be consistent with grep, map, first etc?
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when colomon is around.
Juerd tadzik: I'd say yes. 12:23
tadzik I'm confused
moritz phenny: tell colomon I have a List::Util branch which starts to fix it for nom -- want a pull request, or give commit access?
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when colomon is around.
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tadzik okay, semicolon is better it seems. Juerd++ 12:25
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dalek kudo/nom: 88d8014 | tadzik++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
Warn about a bare '=begin' directive
 12:27
masak tadzik: but the 'did you mean' is a guess, so it feels like it should be made less important with parens.
also, as I said, Perl 5 does this.
tadzik masak: so it is done 12:28
Juerd Agreed: parens would be even better than the semicolon.
tadzik eww, now I have both :)
Juerd With parens I'd go for Foo bar. (Foo bar?)
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masak +1 12:31
tadzik I wonder if we could setup PAUSE for Perl 6 modules
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tadzik otoh, PAUSE looks like a really ancient Perl, maybe we want something newish 12:32
(or ran by Perl 6)
masak with the new Pod parser, it seems feasible.
tadzik what is the connection? 12:33
moritz nothing
PAUSE != search.cpan.org
tadzik I talked to mo++ on the YAPC, and he said "both PAUSE and MetaCPAN are opensource, you can use them for Perl 6 stuff as well" 12:34
but, as I look at pause now...
All the code in here is very old. Many functions are not needed
anymore or at least I am in the process of eliminating dependencies on
it. Before you *use* a function here, please ask about its status.
...I'm not sure we really want this
moritz well, working > pretty
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tadzik I'll much rather see something keeping track of META.infos, and /possibly/ keeping tarballs as well 12:35
moritz the question is how much it needs extending
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moritz tadzik: what I kinda don't like about our current setup is that it doesn't track releases 12:37
tadzik moritz: because we have no versioning
well, no one (almost) uses it
moritz tadzik: no. because we don't have releases
tadzik cosimo++ does, I believe 12:38
moritz: you mean as module releases>?
moritz tadzik: yes
you can make releases of modules just fine even if you don't declare the version inside the module/class
tadzik github.com/cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple/downloads 12:39
moritz are that tags that get automatically packed up as tarballs by github?
tadzik now that I think of it... there's a version field in META.info. What does it describe? I suppose the version it's shipped in 12:40
moritz: yes
cosimo i have a problem with that, though
if I say "class blah:auth<cosimo>:ver<0.01>"
how do I get the "0.01" bit in my code?
moritz cosimo: this is indeed an open problem
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cosimo now i just redeclare a $VERSION, but That Sucks(tm) 12:41
moritz cosimo: I guess my next step will be to write a small preprocessor
tadzik okay. I think we should have module managers respect versions in the first place
so if a META.info says '0.8' and we're doing a git clone, we should checkout the 0.8 tag
moritz cosimo: which reads the version from META.info, and then adds a :var<$current_version> after :auth while copying to blib/lib/
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moritz tadzik: I think git clones are not a good solution in the long run 12:42
tadzik moritz: I suppose so. But we want some handling for that as well I suppose
at least for now
it's easier with tarballs: META.info describes the version of the module in the tarball, you don't even need to bother with that
ooh, idea 12:43
I have a module, on git, tagged. I send a META.info to a server, it checkouts the repo, builds, tests, creates a tarball, and changes a META.info source-url to the tarball 12:44
not only we could be lazy then, but also something will do testing for us
moritz that's a bit how debian packages work 12:45
tadzik if someone doesn't use version control, he can of course upload the whole tarball as well
moritz and they have build servers on/for different platforms
... though I don't see why the tarball creation has to happen on the server side 12:46
it makes it much harder to debug, for one thing
tadzik it's optional
(I suppose)
and the META.info which will be eventually kept on the server has to keep track of the tarball on the server 12:47
I mean, the source-url has to be correct
or maybe it should be more magical 12:48
so it'd be source-url => 'M/MO/MORITZ/Math-Model-foo.tar.xz'; and the module installer will dispatch it to a proper mirror or so
colomon good grief, the channel got quite busy while I was upstairs dealing with a waking child. 12:49
phenny colomon: 12:22Z <moritz> tell colomon in List::Util, you have take-while(@array, $condition). Wouldn't it be better to make that take-while($condigion, *@list) to be consistent with grep, map, first etc?
colomon: 12:23Z <moritz> tell colomon I have a List::Util branch which starts to fix it for nom -- want a pull request, or give commit access?
masak tadzik: I really like the fact that you're thinking about this. 12:55
mls perl6: fail 12:56
p6eval niecza v8-55-g0db7bb8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'fail' used at line 1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 685 (CORE die @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1136 (STD P6.comp_unit @ 36) ␤ …
..rakudo a55346: ( no output )
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Cannot use this control structure outside a 'routine' structure␤ at /tmp/GXxKRf8RZe line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤»
mls good afternoon!
colomon moritz: I think you already have commit access on List::Utils? Let me know if you try it and find you don't.... 12:57
tadzik good afternoon mls! 12:58
mls moritz: checking for type Routine works nicely, moritz++ 12:59
context-forcers.rakudo failed because I didn't patch fail() to use the new mechanism 13:00
moritz colomon: indeed I do, never mind 13:04
colomon: branch 'nom' pushed
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masak good afternoon, mls! 13:09
mls hi masak!
is perlcabal.org down? 13:12
moritz seems like 13:13
tadzik www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/htt...lcabal.org
moritz Juerd: is that dist-upgrade on feather still running?
seems that apache is gone, but I can't run aptitude because the dpkg dir is locked 13:14
flussence it shouldn't take *that* long, right? he started it yesterday
moritz typically that's when it asks you a question, and nobody sits in front of it
Juerd moritz: Yes. 13:15
That's exactly what's happening
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Juerd Because feather doesn't get upgraded very often, they're gigantic 13:15
Every other package is replaced :) 13:16
And it has a lot installed
moritz I've recently pondered replacing feather1 with a new debian stable install
Juerd I just saw gimp and gnome stuff. WTH :)
moritz and make it fairly minimalistic, until people complain that they need stuff
Juerd moritz: Good idea 13:17
moritz but then I got tuit-starved again
Juerd I've pondered the same thing over and over again
It's a really old install 13:18
Which is extra special considering the many people that have had root access :)
s/many/number of/
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mls niecza: sub a { die("foo") ; CATCH {return "foo"}}; say a() 13:48
p6eval niecza v8-55-g0db7bb8: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
mls shouldn't that say "foo" instead of Nil?
moritz it should, IMHO 13:49
though maybe sorear++ has a good reason why it's like this
mls seen TimToady
aloha TimToady was last seen in #perl6 16 hours 50 mins ago saying "but yeah, keeping a lexer state variable is one of the many ways that P5 cheats, and we try to avoid keeping things other than where they belong in P6".
mls instants-and-durations.t still loops for me ;( 13:50
perl6: now 13:52
p6eval rakudo a55346, niecza v8-55-g0db7bb8: ( no output )
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&now"␤ at /tmp/0JoOerSuoQ line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤»
mls investigating...
moritz pugscode.org back, Juerd++ 13:53
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flussence mls: same here. Are you using 32-bit? 14:04
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tadzik where does "Incorrect pre-compiled version of foo.pm loaded" come from? 15:33
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tadzik serialization stuff, ENOJNTHN 15:34
moritz nqp/src/HLL/SerializationContextBuilder.pm
tadzik yeah
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tadzik it doesn't like .pir files installed it seems 15:35
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japhb moritz, tadzik, cosimo: Re: keeping module version, git tag, tarball release ver, etc. all in sync-- note prior Perl 5 art in Dist::Zilla. The program 'dzil' on the local system handles all that stuff, so that 'dzil build' creates a versioned copy of the module tree with VERSION numbers fixed in all files, and tars it up into a versioned tarball; 'dzil release' does 'dzil build' and also commits the Changes file, tags the release in git, 15:46
and pushes back to the origin repo. Very helpful. :-)
Please note: I've been away from here for a really long time, so if this is old news on this channel, I apologize. 15:47
Just started reading today's #perl6 log. :-)
tadzik japhb: that's helpful, thank you. I don't really know much about Dzilla 15:49
moritz knows about dzil, but finds it a bit heavy-weight 15:50
japhb tadzik: dzil.org has a "Choose Your Own Tutorial" which explains how it works
moritz but I guess we'll need something similar in the long run
japhb moritz, yes, it is definitely heavyweight for perl6's current needs, but I do think it's generality will be needed in the long run.
moritz japhb: agreed
japhb I spend a non-trivial amount of time at $Day-Job writing Dist::Zilla plugins for our unique needs. 15:51
tadzik for now, I'm more thinking of ideas than of implementations, so I'm more concerned about Dzilla's concepts than heaviness
jasonmay: ping
or, anyone with Bread::Board experience: ping 15:52
jasonmay yo 15:53
tadzik yo 15:55
I wonder, Bread::Board has something like depends_on(). I understand that a bit like "I want this sort of service, and I'm not creating one myself". Is that right, and how do I do this in IoC?
oh, we're never creating one ourselves. So the right side of the => is the type, and the left side is the name under which we want it? 15:56
tadzik experiments with panda and IoC 15:57
jasonmay not sure what you mean by type 16:00
tadzik: perldoc gives me 'Got a 0-length file from lib/IoC.pm6 via Pod::Perldoc::ToText!?' on the modules you adjusted POD on 16:05
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jasonmay tadzik: 'dependencies' => {'logfile' => 'logfile'}, is IoC equivalent of dependencies => (depends_on('logfile')) 16:07
it's just sugar for the case that the attribute is the same name as the service
in BB, depends_on isn't used that much in practice anymore because you can just supply an arrayref of strings now 16:08
tadzik jasonmay: Uhm, you're aware that Pod in Perl 6 is not Pod in Perl 5, right? :) 16:10
oh, you're actually using Perl 5 Pod
that explains a lot :0
:)
Still, it looks pretty fine here 16:11
jasonmay: see gist.github.com/1171052
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tadzik I can adjust it to Pod 6 if you wish 16:11
jasonmay: re my last question, I think I mistaken IoC::Service with IoC::Literal, sort of 16:12
so the right side of the arrow is always a service, never a literal, right?
well, maybe an IoC::Literal, but not a String, si?
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moritz www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen...es/c2dmmrq "Being dynamic is good, but we go too far. It should at least be possible to statically determine what names are in scope." 16:17
that's a quote about python, and it's nice that both perl 5 and perl 6 get this right
TimToady well, p5 only gets it partly right 16:19
package vars are dynamic
and too many things depend on packages 16:20
moritz I don't really consider package vars to be "in scope", but we could argue about that :-)
TimToady especially since they said "names", not "variables" 16:21
jasonmay tadzik: in the dependencies param, it should always be a service on the right side 16:26
tadzik okay
jasonmay: btw, why does resolve take a named parameter? 16:30
also, resolve fails with Method 'get' not found for invocant of class 'Any', maybe it'd be better to throw an exception of some sort 16:31
jasonmay yeah it needs a lot of work :)
tadzik I also thought we could use Type objects instead of Strings with class names, what do you think?
jasonmay this was a project to help me learn The Perl 6 Way
tadzik So just type => Foo::Bar rather than 'class' => 'Foo::Bar' 16:32
the class => type change is intentional, it's less typing :P
jasonmay it could be confusing since type => 'Int' should really be for literals
unless you're saying to have two ways to declare a literal service 16:33
oh I see 16:34
tadzik no no, I don't mean literals. I mean something like: service 'limit' => { type => Int, lifecycle => 'Singleton' }
also, we could make Singleton an enum or so :)
jasonmay yeah. cool!
tadzik okay, I'll hack on that
I can also fix Pod if you don't mind 16:35
jasonmay I think I actually tried something like that, but with the a Class type or whatever
tadzik it won't be much different after all
jasonmay and it didn't work out so well
mls TimToady: what's the result of callframe/caller in a CATCH block?
jasonmay & for a bit
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TimToady mls: see S04:1079 16:38
mls I feared that ;) 16:39
TimToady people keep thinking that the stack is unwound before CATCH is called, but it's not 16:40
mls so what does CATCH { leave } do? 16:41
TimToady CATCH only helps determine where the stack might be unwound to
doesn't do much, except possibly mark the current exception as handled 16:42
since it only leaves the innermost block 16:43
return would return from the correct function because it's lexotic 16:44
mls yes. How about CATCH { caller.leave } ?
does that throw away the exception?
TimToady might work, might be very dangerous
probably better to use a resumable exception for that 16:45
then you know whether the exception *thinks* it's resumable
resuming a segfault is never going to be what you want... 16:46
mls ;)
TimToady well, unless you're writing the pager :)
mls my problem is that parrot already unwinds the callstack if an exception is caught 16:47
TimToady yes, one of the many places where we're fighting the bogus assumptions in the parrot design
mls (we can still access the old callstack, so we may do some really evil parrot hacking to restore the stack)
I don't think they are bogus, they are just different 16:48
TimToady well, blessed are the peacemakers, and all that... :) 16:49
mls I think most languages rewind the stack right away when an exception is caught
;)
TimToady not Lisp
diakopter the Synopses need Synopses 16:51
TimToady which is not exactly a recent dynamic language, so I still think the assumption falls in the category of "bogus", for some appropriately non-judgemental definition of "bogus" :)
mls (well, nobody said that implementing perl6 is an easy task...)
benabik I get very confused when people insist that Parrot does anything with a stack. There's no stack, just a pile of continuations. 16:52
mls well, there's a ctx -> ctx -> ctx chain
(with next pointers)
benabik Yes, and the parrot exception has access to a continuation from where it was thrown.
mls (same with outer pointers for lexical lookups)
sometimes there's a continuation, yes 16:53
not when the exception was thrown from C
TimToady biab &
benabik Hm. 16:54
mls also not when the 2 arg version of die() is used (for unknown reasons ;) ) 16:55
benabik I suppose that mostly makes sense, as none of the C code is written to be resumable… But that does lose context information.
die opcode or die function somewhere? 16:56
mls die opcode
I asked on the parrot channel some weeks ago, but nobody answered 16:57
benabik Strange. It uses throw_from_op, which sets the thrower continuation.
(I'm no parrot internals expert… I'm just starting to poke around in the innards.) 16:58
mls it doesn't set the "resume" element. see die(in PMC) a couple of lines above
it's probably just an oversight 16:59
benabik Curious. 17:00
Well, the continuation is still there. :-/
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tadzik survey: should Pod directives like =over and =back warn in Perl 6? 17:01
mls Anyway, the throw context is written to "thrower", so it's available 17:02
PerlJam tadzik: yes.
benabik tadzik: +1 from me. Seems consistent with the other obsolescent usages in the P6 grammar.
mls: Yeah, that's what I was seeing. The lack of resume is curious though. I'll poke a few people about it, maybe open a TT. 17:03
mls thanks!
cosimo can i nag you guys about a problem with IO::Socket ? 17:06
thanks, that's great :)
mls Ah, regarding the hanging instants-and-durations.t: it's really because of 32bit
nom: say 1314291787.82161.Rat 17:07
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«1314291787.82161␤»
cosimo IO::Socket works well when used in LWP::Simple to download data through HTTP servers. However, if I connect to a local memcached socket, it hangs indefinitely...
mls give 'bigint_get_long: number too big' here
cosimo in particular, it's the $sock.recv() call that hangs forever 17:08
sorry, $!PIO.recv() hangs, not $sock.recv() 17:09
tadzik maybe it's a Parrot thing?
can you try it in pir? 17:10
mls strace?
cosimo i probably could?
what I don't understand is what's different between a socket to whatever.domain.com:80 and localhost:11211
tadzik me neither
mls strace?
Then you'll see the difference
cosimo yes, i can try straceing 17:11
tadzik nom: enum IoC::Lifecycle <Singleton> 17:12
p6eval nom 88d801: ( no output )
tadzik hmm
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cosimo mls: the difference is that when it hangs, recvfrom(<sock>) results in a -ERESTARTSYS 17:20
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cosimo it seems to receive the data but remain stuck in the recv loop 17:21
mls ERESTARTSYS? Isn't that when some signal occured?
does the trace include a SIGCHLD or something?
or SIGALRM 17:22
cosimo hold on
the ERESTARTSYS is caused by my SIGINT ... LOL 17:23
was logging to a file, now it's in my console, and it's stuck on the recvfrom(<sock>) syscall
gist.github.com/1171210 17:25
tadzik jasonmay: github.com/jasonmay/perl6-ioc/pull/3
cosimo mls: and this is the http server, gist.github.com/1171216 17:27
mls Yes, but both traces look normal
cosimo yes
mls memcached waits for further commands
the http server closes the connection 17:28
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cotto_work ~~ 17:31
cosimo mls: that's right, but $sock.recv() should return when it sees no more data...
mls the http connection would also "hang" if you add a "Keep-Alive" header
how should it know that there is no more data? 17:32
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mls If you just want all data that's currently available, you need to set the socket to NONBLOCK mode 17:32
fcntl(s, F_SETFL, O_NONBLOCK) 17:33
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cosimo mls: when $!PIO.recv() returns 0 17:34
mls "0" means EOF. How should it know that there's no more data to come?
If memcached closed the socket, then you would get a "0". 17:35
But that's not how the protocol is specified
you read the answer until you get the END. then you either send more commands or send a "quit" command. 17:36
The idea is that you can do multiple operations with one socket connection.
cosimo I understand this, but still the socket object behaves differently even in a Keep-Alive request 17:37
mls (That's also why "Keep-Alive" was added to HTTP, socket connections are expensive)
How did you do the keep-alive request?
cosimo with a "Connection: Keep-Alive" header 17:38
mls Hmm, maybe the server doesn't support it. 17:40
can to gist the strace?
you
cosimo mls: I had left a $sock.recv(255) in there while testing the keepalive 17:41
so yes, of course it blocks because the server doesn't shutdown the socket 17:42
silly /me
mls same with memcached.
cosimo mls: sorry I wasted your time
mls no prob ;)
cosimo I have to try the same with Perl 5's IO::Socket and check if I get the same results 17:43
moritz I've just read parrot's socket.pmc 17:44
it always tries to read 2048 bytes at once
and rakudo's IO::Soeckt.recv just calls that method until $size bytes have been received
mls so no "nonblocking" mode? 17:46
(you'd need select(), of course) 17:47
moritz oh, the method read() does that 17:49
cosimo moritz: if you specify $size, otherwise it's Inf, hence the blocking
moritz so it's just a matter of wrapping read
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cosimo and there's a poll() too which seems interesting 17:51
alright, I really need to go home now 17:52
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tadzik oh, chromatic commented on my blag too 18:02
ttjjss.wordpress.com/2011/08/24/wha...comment-92
flussence Perl 6 is like HTML. There's a spec. There's nothing stopping you from using ActiveX but you have only yourself to blame if you do. 18:03
tadzik „If I write code today, will I have to abandon it during yet another compiler rewrite?” 18:04
Yeah, right...
moritz chromatic seems to be quite focused on those rewrites
does IO::Socket::INET work in nom? (apart from it returning Str instead of Buf) 18:05
TimToady well, chromatic is in violent agreement with what we're actually doing, though perhaps not with what he thinks we're doing. Yesterday he said irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-08-24#i_4321390, but what's really going on is that we're trying to get the fundamentals right, and you can't do that without trying them various ways. 18:12
tadzik I'm quite in favor of irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-08-24#i_4321394 18:13
TimToady and the way to have a production-ready rakudo by his definition is not to ignore the fundamentals for now 18:14
I wish we were smart enough to understand all the fundamentals in advance, but we're not.
tadzik huh 18:15
PerlJam TimToady: do you really think Perl 6 will "rescue Parrot" ?
TimToady I don't think anything else will.
tadzik seems that nom is _terribly_ slow at compiling stuff 18:16
gist.github.com/1171350
PerlJam oh, good point.
tadzik based on the 'alive' output, it takes it like 11 seconds to compile it, and virtually 0 seconds to run it
PerlJam (unless one of the other language implementations makes large strides forward and gets adopted by that languages community)
add appropritate apostrophe :) 18:17
tadzik also, did I mention that I really like IoC? I really like it :)
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PerlJam tadzik: turning procedural things into declarative things does tend to simplify code (when done right) 18:18
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moritz phenny: tell snarkyboojum about the nom branch in github.com/moritz/Perl6-MIME-Base64 (but it breaks it on master :/ -- I don't think there's a way to fix it for nom without breaking it on rakudo/master) 18:18
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when snarkyboojum is around.
tadzik hmm, I can think of another simplification for IoC :) 18:20
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mls I've got a fix for the 32bit now hang 18:23
moritz \o/ 18:24
flussence mls++
mls It's actually a simple fix. I just changed a,b,c,d in the "convergents of the continued fraction" to be Num instead of Int 18:25
recompiling the setting... 18:26
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mls (workaround as Int * Int doesn't promote to Num when the result doesn't fit) 18:28
moritz that might be fixable too 18:29
mls Yes, probably. For now: gist.github.com/1171388
moritz tries it 18:32
mls Arg, it's incomplete ;( 18:33
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mls It can't work, the result doesn't fit in a Rat 18:34
forget about the patch... 18:35
There's simply no way to put the posix time plus some milliseconds in a Rat consisting of two 32bit values
flussence aww :( 18:36
(how did it work before?)
mls when did it work? 18:37
flussence it's only been broken recently AFAIK
as in, past few weeks
mls probably no milliseconds fraction 18:39
at least now we know why it's hanging... 18:43
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flussence S02:1364 is interesting reading... 18:47
mls (moritz++ added the Num->Rat conversion code on July 2nd. dunno how it worked before that) 18:51
tadzik moritz: could you poke modules.perl6.org to update? 18:55
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jasonmay tadzik: metacpan.org/module/Bread::Board::...s::Typemap 18:58
inference is really nice and I might want to keep named params in resolve for this purpose
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tadzik oh, I see 18:59
feel free to ignore that one then
I wonder how do I remove this from the pull request 19:00
if I can
jasonmay no worries, I'll cherry-pick when I get the time 19:02
tadzik kthx
mls with old rakudo: say pir::time__n.Rat.WHAT --> Num() 19:03
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moritz mls: your patch makes several spectests fails here 19:08
tadzik: uhm, modules.perl6.org should update hourly... doesn't it?
mls yeah, it doesn't return a Rat. As I said, ignore it. It simply doesn't fit in a Rat.
tadzik moritz: well, IO::Select's not there 19:09
moritz: and it is in the API
(which updates hourly too, I think)
benabik mls: gist.github.com/1171507 19:10
dalek kudo/alpha: fd0a184 | (Martin Berends)++ | / (3 files):
[alpha] update README with Subversion->Github moves, tweak test_summary.pl
tadzik nom: class A { submethod BUILD { say self.WHAT } }; A.new 19:11
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«A()␤»
tadzik hmm
nom: class A { submethod BUILD { say 'building' ~ self.WHAT } }; A.new 19:12
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤building␤»
tadzik hihi
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benabik nom: class A { submethod BUILD { say 'building' ~ self.WHAT.Str } }; A.new 19:12
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤building␤»
benabik Curious. 19:13
moritz tadzik: update running
tadzik nom: class A { submethod BUILD { say ('building' ~ self.WHAT) } }; A.new
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤building␤»
tadzik scratches head
rakudo: class A { submethod BUILD { say ('building' ~ self.WHAT) } }; A.new
p6eval rakudo a55346: OUTPUT«buildingA()␤»
tadzik nom: class A { submethod BUILD { say self.WHAT.WHAT } }; A.new 19:14
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«A()␤»
tadzik eek
mls have to leave, see you guys tomorrow... 19:15
pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6 19:16
tadzik: type objects stringify differently than they gist
benabik nom: class A { submethod BUILD { say 'building' ~ self.WHAT.gist } }; A.new 19:17
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«buildingA()␤»
pmichaud nom: say Int.WHAT, ~Int.WHAT;
tadzik goodbye mls, hello pmichaud
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤Int()␤»
tadzik I see
pmichaud ...both of which is different from how they .perl :)
nom: say Int.perl;
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«Int␤»
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tadzik do we still have that pir level profile avaiable in nom? 19:27
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diakopter moritz: I fixed the 30-40 remaining broken smartlinks I broke in S02/Literals 19:33
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tadzik www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index...._some_code needs some updating 19:47
Su-Shee perl 6 MOP... anything to read besides the synopsis?
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masak gd'eve, lambdacamels. 19:57
diakopter '
tadzik hello masak 19:58
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mberends o/ masak 20:01
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moritz Su-Shee: perlgeek.de/en/article/discovering-...t-protocol 20:04
Su-Shee moritz: I also have "the art of the MOP" and my smalltalk books :) 20:05
moritz Su-Shee: then src/Perl6/Metamodel/ in rakudo/nom :-)
masak .u 😄
phenny U+1F604 (No name found)
Su-Shee well maybe something _before_ that ;) 20:06
moritz tadzik: btw modules.perl6.org runs off the gh-pages branch - is that how it should be? 20:07
flussence IIRC the master branch didn't work
or something - all the instructions in it point to the gh-pages branch instead
tadzik moritz: no eye deer, I never touched the gh-pages branch
mberends Su-Shee: jnthn explains a lot in various talks: jnthn.net/articles.shtml 20:09
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cotto_work What's the ETA of nom merging? 20:10
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mberends cotto_work: probably at least a week from now, because jnthn++ has some deep debugging to do, is a little under the weather and offline for a few days. 20:13
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pmichaud actually, I'm planning to do the switch before jnthn++ returns. he and I discussed it yesterday 20:13
masak \o/
pmichaud (via /privmsg)
mberends ooh!
pmichaud unless anyone has a strong objection to it.
masak I hope you like bug reports. 20:14
pmichaud I'd also not want to miss an august release altogether
TimToady what's the state of the memory leak?
pmichaud so, we'll put lots of caveats on the announcement
cotto_work Thanks.
mberends the memory leak has prevented me building nom on a 1GB netbook for several weeks now.
pmichaud memory leak is still there. jnthn++ said he couldn't fix it before departing
mberends: I'm not sure the memory leak is the culprit.
Su-Shee moritz: you actually linked _everything_ BUT any Perl 6 MOP docs.. :)
pmichaud I think we may have two issues. 1) there's a memory leak, and 2) building nom takes a lot of memory. It's not certain that the two are the same problem. 20:15
moritz Su-Shee: I don't think what you are looking for exists
ie there's no API doc for *HOW yet
Su-Shee ah. oh.
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: e583214 | moritz++ | web/build-project-list.pl:
github URLs are all https these days
 20:16
href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: a2051d9 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
base page fetching on Mojo::UserAgent instead of LWP::Simple, since the latter does not seem to work with SSL on that particular box
pmichaud it might be nice if they turn out to be the same problem.... but we don't have evidence for or against that notion yet.
mberends right
pmichaud masak: I like bug reports, but I like tests more.
masak pmichaud: I'm good at the former, not as good at the latter. 20:17
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tadzik pmichaud: what is the state of QRegex? 20:17
masak: imagine how many I would be able to _close_ after the switch :P 20:18
masak \o/
moritz most modules that use regexes more than trivially don't work with qregex
masak tadzik: I would have to, like, expend energy to open up as many as you close :P
tadzik yeah
moritz reasons include lack of <&rule>, variables, proto regexes and action methods
tadzik masak: please, don't reopen the old ones :P
pmichaud getting &rule to work is fairly easy. 20:19
same for variable interpolations.
masak tadzik: oh, I'm happy to submit new ones :)
tadzik creative masak is creative
pmichaud anyway, I'm planning to do an aggressive rt cleanup around the time of nom->master
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tadzik pmichaud: is there anything big on the TODO before the switch? 20:19
moritz masak: it will be much harder to find Null PMC Accesses on nom than on master :-) 20:20
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tadzik oh, I doubt it ;) 20:20
moritz opens the punch list
masak moritz: I like a challencge :)
tadzik I found some easy one yesterday
moritz regex stuff
pmichaud just regex stuff... and most of that can be put back in place quickly
tadzik oh
moritz is the only one with a leading 1 remaining
pmichaud we need a refactor of regex stuff, though.
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pmichaud (in nom) 20:20
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pmichaud especially for the m// s/// etc. operations 20:21
tadzik nom: class A { has $!a; method b { c() } sub c { $!a } }; A.new.b
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤»
moritz -> sleep
tadzik nom: class A { has $!a; method b { c() }; sub c { $!a } }; A.new.b
p6eval nom 88d801: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_attr_keyed()␤ in sub c at /tmp/eD3iB8Ekue:1␤ in method b at /tmp/eD3iB8Ekue:1␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/eD3iB8Ekue:1␤ in mu <anon> at /tmp/eD3iB8Ekue:1␤␤»
masak \o/
tadzik masak: beat ya! :P
masak looking forward to submitting that one.
nice one, by the way. 20:22
pmichaud I guess the correct result would've been "cannot access private attribute in non-method" or something like that?
tadzik pmichaud: do you have any idea why compilation time would be so slow on nom?
pmichaud tadzik: not any strong idea, no.
masak I can just imagine it scraping against an unknown corner in the MOP.
tadzik perl6: extra/kdesdk-kcachegrindclass A { has $!a; method b { c() }; sub c { $!a } }; A.new.b
eeps
p6eval niecza v8-55-g0db7bb8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Attribute a declared outside of any class at /tmp/5aLq_nqJDW line 1:␤------> xtra/kdesdk-kcachegrindclass A { has $!a⏏; method b { c() }; sub c { $!a } }; A.n␤␤Methods must be used in some kind of package a…
..rakudo a55346: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤You can not add an attribute to a module; use a class or role␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«pugs: *** Can't modify constant item: VUndef␤ at /tmp/lsUhGFR1jX line 1, column 1␤»
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tadzik perl6: class A { has $!a; method b { c() }; sub c { $!a } }; A.new.b 20:22
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** Undeclared variable: ("$__SELF__",MkPad (padToList [("$_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Scalar"), pe_proto = <Scalar:0x7fcb285fe3c9>, pe_flags = MkEntryFlags {ef_isContext = True}, pe_store = <ref:0x7fcb285ff159>}),("@_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Array"), pe_proto =…
..niecza v8-55-g0db7bb8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Variable $!a used where no 'self' is available at /tmp/WKn_8FMTzd line 1:␤------> A { has $!a; method b { c() }; sub c { ⏏$!a } }; A.new.b␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/…
..rakudo a55346: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_attr_str()␤ in 'A::c' at line 22:/tmp/yc5t7bhqas␤ in 'A::b' at line 22:/tmp/yc5t7bhqas␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/yc5t7bhqas␤»
pmichaud tadzik: my suspicion is that there's some deep cloning taking place somewhere that we need to avoid/prune
masak I think it should be a parse-time error. 20:23
pmichaud either that or it may simply be that nom is creating far more ast objects than master did
tadzik pmichaud: is the pir profiling tool available in nom?
pmichaud: I have a program which takes 11 seconds to compile and 0.5 to run :/
pmichaud tadzik: you mean the one that records subroutine entries?
TimToady I think niecza has the appropriate message there
tadzik pmichaud: yes
pmichaud niecza++
tadzik: it's implemented in nom but not enabled yet. 20:24
tadzik std: class A { has $!a; method b { c() }; sub c { $!a } }; A.new.b
p6eval std 516268a: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
tadzik pmichaud: how hard would be to enable it?
TimToady STD cheats on that one
tadzik I mean, tadzik-hard or pmichaud-hard? :P
TimToady std: $!a
p6eval std 516268a: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
pmichaud I need to add the opcode to nqp's routine generator 20:25
TimToady niecza: $!a
p6eval niecza v8-55-g0db7bb8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Cannot resolve class for private method at /tmp/m9DBBFt9F2 line 1 (EOF):␤------> $!a⏏<EOL>␤␤Variable $!a used where no 'self' is available at /tmp/m9DBBFt9F2 line 1:␤------> <BOL>⏏$!a␤␤Un…
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lue hello planet o/ 21:37
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tadzik hello lue! 22:23
lue I notice my module's new name is poking its description on modules.perl6.org [thinking of how one might fix that...] 22:24
tadzik I don't see it 22:25
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tadzik I think I have an outdated modules.perl6.org :) 22:25
oh, I see now 22:26
lue Oh. [well, I did go to modules.perl6.org . That's where I see it.]
tadzik I wonder why IO::Select isn't there
flussence
.oO( <dl class="table-display">... something seems off about that )
lue I do want to work on modules.perl6.org a bit, just curious how the update procedure goes (or is there some cron job that does that automagically?) 22:27
flussence there's a script that does... something
lue flussence: I agree, but I think there's probably a reason for avoiding good ol' <table>
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cryptographrix hi 22:30
lue hello o/ 22:32
tadzik hello cryptographrix
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lue Hm. What would you describe the panda badge as? "Conforms to the latest Perl6 module spec"? [it's what the badge's tooltip says] 22:40
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lue What do I need to do to update modules.perl6.org ? [I want to add a description of the panda badge to fame-and-profit] 22:47
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lue [I ask because the link given in the README for the github pages version is broken, so I really am confused on what to do to update the website] 22:50
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[Coke] ~ 23:43
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tadzik lue: that means the META.info is up to the latest standards 23:44
lue thought so.
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