»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
00:01 replore joined 00:11 risou_awy is now known as risou 00:14 thou left
TimToady sorear: no, % is not really a quantmod; it's orthogonal to the real quantmods 00:20
phenny TimToady: 25 Sep 23:08Z <sorear> tell TimToady My current reading of S05 tells me that % is a quantmod, and since you may only have one quantmod, this means there is no shorter way to say [ :r x+ % ',' ]. Is that correct?
TimToady std: / x+: % ',' / 00:21
p6eval std c22b2ee: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter % (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/NfubPfK1XM line 1:␤------> / x+: %⏏ ',' /␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/' at /tmp/NfubPfK1XM line 1:␤------> / x+: %[…
TimToady hasn't updated, grr
anyway, STD currently calls it <separator>, not <quantmod> 00:22
japhb What syntax would you use to mix in an anonymous parametric role? $foo but role [$x]["blarg"] { method foo { $x } } ?
sorear japhb: question contains a type error 00:23
parametric roles, anonymous or otherwise, cannot be mixed in
jnthn um.
Parametric ones sure can. 00:24
sorear "but" requires a curried role
jnthn sorear: but or does could either see a PRG or a CR
sorear well, you can use a 0-arg parametric role 00:25
but I think that's more of a punning thing than anything else
jnthn japhb: Anonymous ones are problematic there I suspect, but note you could use a lexically scoped role
sorear Foo allows itself to mean Foo[]
Foo(PRG) allows itself to mean Foo[](CR)
japhb
.oO( Is it a good thing or a bad thing that every time I ask a question, I seem to start a spec discussion? )
sorear this isn't a spec discussion 00:26
jnthn japhb: You haven't.
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jnthn nom: sub foo($s) { my role R[$x] { method x { $x } }; 42 but R[$s] }; my $x = foo('lol'); say $x; say $x.x 00:27
p6eval nom 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«42␤lol␤»
sorear japhb: you could write $foo buf role[$x,$y] { ... }. However this would make no sense, because the role's arguments need to be instantiated first
jnthn japhb: You could do something like the above.
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jnthn sorear: Ah, I see what you were getting at. 00:27
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jnthn In which case, yeah, I think I agree. :) 00:28
japhb sorear, my original question was how to be an anon parametric role and instantiate it and "mix it in" all in one statement
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sorear std: 1 00:28
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p6eval std c22b2ee: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤» 00:28
jnthn japhb: I don't think there's a way to do that.
japhb jnthn, ah, OK, well at least I didn't miss it in the spec. :-)
sorear TimToady: c22b2e is the most recent version of STD you've push
ed
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sorear rakudo: my $y = 42 but Metamodel::CurriedRoleHOW.new_type(role [$x] { method foo { $x } }, "foo"); say $y.foo 00:32
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«foo␤»
jnthn ...wow :)
sorear wow, it worked on the first try
jnthn ;) 00:33
sorear I'm kindof suprised it's not written .^curry("foo")
dalek ecs: ff11f19 | larry++ | S05-regex.pod:
define %%; clarify that % is not quantmod

  ingy++ requested a method of stopping optionally after the separator,
so that's now %% (with some notion of "evenly divisible" in some kind of loose sense). (Note, if you want to require the separator at the end, don't use this construct, just use [x ',']* or such.
  sorear++ requested clarification: % (and %%) are not really quantifier
modifiers; they modify a quantified atom to insert requirements between each iteration of that quantified atom. Hence any quantifier may still take an additional control quantmod in addition to a separator.
ecs: 6d7f9f1 | larry++ | S32-setting-library/ (2 files):
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/specs
jnthn sorear: That was somewhat deliberate.
sorear: It means you can override currying of roles in a given lexical scope. 00:34
sorear: Without having to override the role group etc.
sorear: Seeing EXPORTHOW will probably make this a bit more concrete.
dalek d: d1876cf | larry++ | STD.pm6:
Allow Foo(Bar) syntax in declarations
 00:37
d: 9fe2e1b | larry++ | STD.pm6:
add %% form of %
jnthn Grr. Every time I make the optimizer smarter, I make a bunch of spectests fail as a reward. 00:39
dies_ok { end() }, '... end() dies without an argument';
Now fails
===SORRY!=== 00:40
CHECK FAILED:
Dispatch to 'end' could never work with the arguments of types ()
And so we never get to run the test...
TimToady std: / x+: % y /
p6eval std c22b2ee: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter % (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/ehdl1eGzWi line 1:␤------> / x+: %⏏ y /␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/' at /tmp/ehdl1eGzWi line 1:␤------> / x+: %[33…
jnthn (yes, error should be improved to say it's an arity fail)
TimToady sorear: it *says* it's running c22b2ee, but it's not
ingy: you can now end it in either spot using %% instead of % 00:41
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dalek kudo/optimizer: fa826a0 | jnthn++ | src/binder/multidispatch.c:
Greatly weaken the 'could never work' analysis - the initial version was wrong. Add a note about how we probably can catch a bunch of obvious cases.
 00:45
kudo/optimizer: 055835c | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
Start to do the compile time multi-dispatch analysis. At the moment, we don't actually use the 'I identified the candidate' result, but there's a stub for doing so. We do complain about dispatches that are identified as impossible though, with the result that a bunch of spectests that checked things like '&end requires an argument' now fail to compile.
TimToady moritz: shouldn't your <=> be cmp instead? you're doing string comparison semantics, not numeric 00:47
referring to irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-09-25#i_4476247
<=> would convert the buffers to numbers and then compare
(remember buffers are allowed to be ASCII, which includes "123") 00:48
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jnthn Probably should sleep...gotta try and catch up with $epicly-behind-project tomorrow... & 00:51
sorear phenny: tell jnthn If the optimizer breaks a spectest, change dies_ok to eval_dies_ok. That's why we have it. 00:58
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
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PerlJam Anyone awake? 02:20
colomon for another ten minutes or so 02:23
PerlJam Is there a problem building nqp or is it just me?
(I'm checking the latter condition right now)
soh_cah_toa_ yeah, me too
something about kill-useless-defaults i think 02:24
colomon turns it over to soh_cah_toa_ ... ;)
soh_cah_toa_ that's about as far as my knowledge goes ;)
the kill-useless-defaults branch broke nqp
benabik Parrot master needs nqp/kill-useless-defaults 02:25
soh_cah_toa_ moritz might be working on it i think
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PerlJam aye ... I see it now. 02:25
benabik NQP master will be broken on Parrot master until after Rakudo cuts a release, I think.
soh_cah_toa_ whenever the heck that will be :(
benabik Because there's a desire to base the release on Parrot 3.8 02:26
soh_cah_toa_: I think it's supposed to be soon.
soh_cah_toa_ right, just like last month was gonna be soon ;)
nah, i'm not trying to be a crab or anything. i can understand unforseen problems 02:27
i'm just really tried of being stuck w/ all the nyi features of 2011.07 02:28
benabik pmichaud said he'd land some regex updates prior to release, but real life has caught up with him, I think. 02:29
soh_cah_toa_ oh yeah, qregex. forgot about that 02:30
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PerlJam I had a weird dream about pmichaud last night. I wonder if it was my psychic brain trying to tell me something 02:30
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soh_cah_toa_ will be super happy if qregex supports escape sequences in character classes 02:31
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woosley perl6: say (1,2,3) X++ (4,5,6) 02:32
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«123␤*** Can't modify constant item: VInt 4␤ at /tmp/nphDPuH7a6 line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤»
..niecza v9-51-g493fbf9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Postfix found where infix expected (omit whitespace?) at /tmp/mcpWMqEvD2 line 1:␤------> say (1,2,3) X⏏++ (4,5,6)␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
..rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«4 5 6␤»
PerlJam woosley: there is no infix:<++> 02:33
(though rakudo's response is ... interesting)
woosley PerlJam: yes, but what is rakudo doing here?
benabik rakudo: say 1 ++ 4 02:34
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«5␤»
PerlJam craziness!
benabik rakudo: say (3,2,1) X++ (1,2,3) 02:37
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«6 5 4␤»
benabik rakudo: say (3,2,1) X++ (1,2)
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«5 4 3␤»
benabik Looks like it's doing LHS + size of RHS 02:38
woosley rakudo: say ((1,2) Z++ (4,5)).perl
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«(3,).list␤»
woosley :-(
PerlJam woosley: aye, (1,2,3) X++ (4,5,6) is parsed as (1,2,3) X+ +(4,5,6) 02:39
rakudo: say (1,2,3) X++++ (4,5,6)
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value␤ in sub prefix:<++> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2221␤ in <anon> at /tmp/AVQg9dL8mS:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/AVQg9dL8mS:1␤␤»
PerlJam rakudo: say (1,2,3) X+++ (4,5,6) 02:40
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«Method 'succ' not found for invocant of class 'Parcel'␤ in sub prefix:<++> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1044␤ in <anon> at /tmp/il70byLfo9:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/il70byLfo9:1␤␤»
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woosley rakudo: say (1,2,3) X/+- (2,5,6) 02:40
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«-0.333333333333333 -0.666666666666667 -1␤»
soh_cah_toa_ hm, if only there was some sort of debugger you could use. then you might just be able to figure out what rakudo is doing there ;)
too bad... ;) 02:41
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soh_cah_toa_ why are the classes IO::Socket::INET and IO::Socket declared lexically? 03:26
s/declared/defined/
yet they have file scope 03:28
well, they do use {} brackets but they're the only thing in the file 03:29
regardless, it just seems weird
aw...lame. i can't 'use IO::Socket::INET'? it's not installed? 03:31
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abercrombie Hi, how to set Perl5's $" in Perl6? 03:52
sorear Perl6 doesn't have a $"
we shun global variables
abercrombie I have a list but I don't want to print it with the spaces
sorear say @list.join(",")
abercrombie rakudo: my @list=(1,2,3); say @list.join(",").WHAT 03:53
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
abercrombie sorear: Thanks.
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sorear ugh, p6eval is still using tryfile 04:07
that's the problem!
abercrombie $a = ???; say $a.WHAT; # how to fill ??? to make the output print List() ? 04:08
sorear $a = List; 04:09
abercrombie Sorry, I mean is there a form like (1,2,3) or [1,2,3]
sorear No. Why do you want one? List needs to die in a fire anyway. 04:10
abercrombie Because I found if $a = $*IN.lines, then $a.WHAT is List(). I don't know what's the internal structure of $*IN.lines 04:11
sorear List is basically the same as Array, but with a different type name for not much good reason
Array and List and Seq have exactly the same internal structure 04:12
it is my opinion that only one of them needs to exist
abercrombie The problem is, my $str="abc"; say $str>>~^>>" " this one works. But my $str=$*IN.lines; say $str>>~^>>" " this will give me an error 04:13
Sorry, I made a mistake. That's not what I was going to say 04:14
my $str=("a","b","c"); say $str>>~^>>" " # this one works 04:15
my $str=$*IN.lines; say $str.WHAT; say $str>>~^>>" " #this one doesn't work
the only difference seems to me is Seq vs List
sorear rakudo: say (<a b c>).WHAT 04:16
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
sorear rakudo: say (<a b c>).list.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«List()␤»
sorear I hope you only wanted that for testing 04:17
abercrombie Actually I am trying to implement a uppercase to lowercase and vice versa. If I fix the string in the program, it works, like: 04:19
rakudo: my $str="aBc"; say $str.comb(/./)>>~^>>" "
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«A b C␤»
abercrombie Now I want to do things like these: 04:20
echo "aBc"|perl6 -e 'say $*IN.lines>>~^>>" "'
but this doesn't work
I don't know why. the previous one, comb gives a List, it works. In the latter one, IN.lines is also a list, but it doesn't work. 04:21
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sorear abercrombie: fwiw, I think what you're doing has been ruled illegal 04:28
~^ works on Buf, not Str
abercrombie: obviously something is up with rakudo's hyperops 04:29
abercrombie Do you mean the first one is a List of Buf, but the second one is a List of Str? 04:30
sorear you're using ~^ on two Strs 04:31
that's illegal
~^ requires two Bufsd
abercrombie Rakduo: say "123" ~+ "456"
rakduo: say "123" ~+ "456"
rakudo: say "123" ~+ "456"
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«123456␤»
abercrombie rakudo: say "123" ~^ "456"
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«␤»
abercrombie Isn't this one correct? 04:32
sorear no
Str values are encoding-agnostic
they don't have numeric values, so to XOR them makes little sense
abercrombie But one article told me to do things like this: 04:33
rakudo: "b" ~| "d"
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: ( no output )
abercrombie rakudo: say "b" ~| "d"
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«f␤»
abercrombie this one
is incorrect too?
sorear yes 04:34
abercrombie perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6#post_11 04:35
sorear how recent was the article, and was it written by someone who should know better?
abercrombie That's the perl5 to perl6 written by moritz
sorear I think that needs to be updated, once we decide what the syntax for Buf literals is. 04:36
anyway doing any kind of bitops on Strs is fundamentallly wrong in Perl 6's pluralistic culture
rakudo: say "αβΓδΕζΗ" ~^ " " 04:37
p6eval rakudo 8b7a2a: OUTPUT«string bitwise_xor (utf8/utf8) unsupported␤ in sub infix:<~^> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3182␤ in <anon> at /tmp/8lao7TVDKC:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/8lao7TVDKC:1␤␤»
abercrombie Yes, that's the error I got
sorear Why didn't you say so at the beginning?
**This has absolutely nothing to do with Lists.**
abercrombie Oh, I'm sorry. I wrongly thought it just caused by the behavior of $*IN.lines 04:38
So what should I do with ~^ ? Could you give me a simple example with Buf? I never used Buf directly
sorear anyway doing any kind of bitops on Strs is fundamentallly wrong in Perl 6's pluralistic culture 04:39
you could use it to generate parity blocks or something like that 04:40
abercrombie Is there a situation for one to write code like Buf $x = ... ? I mean directly deal with Buf 04:41
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abercrombie "anyway doing any kind of bitops on Strs is fundamentallly wrong". I'm not very clear about that. Is that just like you cannot do "char* p="abc"; p[0]='a';" in C/C++? 04:43
sorear abercrombie: It's more like why you cannot do "double a = 1.5; double b = 10.1; double c = a ^ b;" in C/C++ 04:44
abercrombie Oh, I see.
sorear catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal - this document seems to assume the target is talking about a bug. I need something slightly different here.
abercrombie If the string content can be assured to be an integer, then for ~^ this kind of operations can be allowed. Otherwsise, the operation doesn't make sense. That's why we need to prohibit it. Am I right? 04:49
With Buf, I know what I am doing, so that's not a problem. 04:51
sorear abercrombie: it doesn't make much sense, ever, because assigning numbers to characters is the job of the IO layer 04:54
abercrombie: Str doesn't know whether the programmer was trained on EBCDIC or ASCII, and it only gets worse with other alphabets 04:55
abercrombie So if I want to deal with the binary representation of the string, I should use buffer instead to make it clear?
sorear yes 04:56
wait, no
your question is wrong
you said "the binary representation of the string"
what I've been trying to tell you for the last ten minutes... there are many possible binary representations 04:57
abercrombie "the * representation of the string"
sorear "the * representation of the string" isn't made of bits, so applying bit operations to it is nonsense. 04:58
Seriously, take 20 steps back and tell us your REAL problem.
abercrombie Well, just a friend of mine asked me to implement the conversion I described before for fun, of course with perl6, and trying to make the code as smaller as possible 05:00
sorear Perl 6 philosophy is to make it hard to write programs that work in the lab but fail in the field 05:01
Perl 6 tries hard to stop you from writing English-only programs 05:02
abercrombie Yes. I just tend to relate Str() with char* or wchar_t* 05:03
sorear Str is a bit more general than either of those, because a 1-'chars' Str might contain composing characters 05:04
like n+diaeresis
abercrombie I didn't know there are numerous representation underlying Str().
Thanks a lot. I will look into the Unicode part of Syn once it's finished. Lack of O2 now.. need to go to bed. GN~ 05:07
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sorear evalbot control restart 06:06
06:06 p6eval left, orafu left
sorear std: /x+%y/ 06:06
06:06 p6eval joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v p6eval
sorear std: /x+%y/ 06:06
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p6eval std 9fe2e1b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤» 06:06
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sorear phenny: tell TimToady fixed! 06:07
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
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dalek albot: af9321e | sorear++ | evalbot.pl:
Fix std: PERL5LIB fail
 06:08
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masak morngtn. 06:14
<tadzik> haha, watch this
<tadzik> GOOD MORNING MASAK!
I love this channel. :)
moritz good am, ma sak
masak yo, mo. 06:15
[backlog] I'm glad the potential problems of x ** -100..100 are getting some attention. 06:16
if it were up to me, negative values in ranges in infix:<**> expressions in regexes would be the first ones up against the wall when the revolution comes. 06:17
moritz "Perl 6 Revolution Edition: with triple impact and improved sanity!" 06:22
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sorear well, we're using the whirlpool model, so the revolution is continuous. And dizzying. 06:29
ps, I'd like people to read my exchange with abercrombie and tell me where I went wrong. 06:30
I know I handled that badly.
niecza: any<foo bar> 06:31
p6eval niecza v9-51-g493fbf9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤The 'any' listop may not be called without arguments (please use () or whitespace to clarify) at /tmp/_DVsq0AAou line 1:␤------> any⏏<foo bar>␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/bo…
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masak sorear: ISTR TimToady recently explained that x++ is equivalent to x+: 06:36
sorear: I can't find it in the backlog because it's hard to search for.
sorear yes
masak maybe I submitted an RT ticket for it.
oh, you already know this.
sorear wonders why git apply thinks this patch is empty 06:37
it was generated by git diff, and it's clearly _not_ empty
there, finally got it to work 06:39
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dalek ecza: 198086c | sorear++ | src/STD.pm6:
Track recent grammar changes

Amazingly, the patch applied cleanly.		 06:45
sorear How are & and && ($~Regex) intended to be implemented? 06:50
dalek ast: a5e45f1 | Coke++ | S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t:
nom fudge updates.

Test passes here on darwin; use todo instead of skip where possible.		 06:52
sorear niecza: say substr("foo", 4, 1)
p6eval niecza v9-51-g493fbf9: OUTPUT«Str()␤» 06:53
dalek kudo/nom: ca5f34b | Coke++ | t/spectest.data:
run fudged test!
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[Coke] sorear: "make spectest" depends on t/spec existing, but is missing an explicit rule to do the checkout. 07:02
[Coke] forks and prepares a pull request. 07:04
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masak sorear: IIUC, & actually falls out very naturally of any Thompson/DFA approach. 07:11
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masak it's just the dual of | 07:11
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masak sorear: I don't think you handled the exchange with abercrombie too badly. you sound a bit peeved through it, but that's probably fine. 07:15
[Coke] question: if niecza complains about a spectest because it declares a variable it doesn't use (like, a my $x that is deliberately overriden in an inner scope to make sure the outer one isn't used), is it ok to use the variable somewhere to make it happy? 07:21
Or is that peculiar to niecza and I shouldn't encourage her?
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[Coke] ah, that's not an error, it's a warning, and there's another warning. nevermind. ;) 07:25
er, another *error*
tadzik good morning 07:30
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sorear [Coke]: if you end a line with #OK it suppresses warnings on that line. 07:32
[Coke]: you can also say #OK not used to be more specific, but because it's a substring test on the warning message, it strikes me as concerningly fragile, esp. wrt. l10n
masak: I was getting frustrated, yes. 07:33
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sorear masak: regular expressions are constructed inductively using *NFA*s. & falls out of *DFA* handling. Put them together and the only algorithm I've found has time complexity that requres _tetration_ to express 07:34
I don't like algorithms whose time complexity cannot be bounded with a finite number of exponentials. 07:35
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japhb picky, picky sorear 07:40
sorear :> 07:41
masak tetration, eh? :)
also, one of these days I got to learn the difference between NFAs and DFAs. :/ 07:42
[Coke] sorear: I'm going to fudge some spec tests for niecza so you can start adding them to the run. Feel free to suggest improvements to things as I go. For now, since can't 'todo', will "skip 'todo'"; if it's an actual skip, will include the error I got when trying to run it.
sorear [Coke]: thanks!
I'll look into todo after I finish % 07:43
Where should I add % tests?
japhb sleep &
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masak sorear: separate file? 07:46
sorear good idea 07:47
[Coke] sorear: if you give me a commit bit, I can update t/spectest.data, also. 07:49
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[Coke] FYI, niecza is already running S02-types/bool.t, but it's not in the spectest.data file. 07:50
... sorry, "but it's being reported as unrun by tools/unrun*" ;) 07:51
I think you want s/8/9 in tools/unrun*
dalek ast: 5bf3e6e | Coke++ | S02-types/whatever.t:
niecza fudge
 07:52
ast: be01201 | Coke++ | S02-types/num.t:
niecza fudge
sorear [Coke]: on my system, 8 works correctly and 9 doesn't. "I guess this means that processing find output with fixed templates isn't portable." 07:54
[Coke]: can you give me a sample line of find output?
find t/spec/ -name '*.t' | head 07:55
jnthn mornin' 07:56
phenny jnthn: 00:58Z <sorear> tell jnthn If the optimizer breaks a spectest, change dies_ok to eval_dies_ok. That's why we have it.
jnthn Yes, I know. :) 07:57
moritz it's not so easy
eval_dies_ok eval()s in a different lexical scope 07:58
jnthn ah.
sorear "Clearly we need a macro version"
jnthn er, I'm not sure that'd help :) 07:59
sorear a macro could bind eval in the caller's lexical scope without wrecking optimization
[Coke] t/spec//integration/99problems-01-to-10.t
find t/spec # not t/spec/ works here.
sorear for niecza I've made the rule that all eval calls must be more or less statically obvious
[Coke]: oh, because you have a real t/spec checkout 08:00
jnthn sorear: I'm curious how that'll work out.
sorear: Of it we're really allowed to do that.
my &foo = &eval; ....way later... foo('oh lol $x')
*Or 08:01
sorear [Coke]: for me t/spec is a symlink to roast
jnthn: erroneous
jnthn: note that Javascript has the same rule now.
dalek ast: ff382f2 | Coke++ | S02-types/lists.t:
niecza fudge
[Coke] sorear: I'd have what you had if "make spectest" did that for me. ;)
jnthn sorear: If TimToady++ is happy with such a call, then I am too...it makes a bunch of optimizations possible. :)
moritz or maybe eval() should have a :lexical_env_from_caller named param
[Coke] I'm proceeding fine in the meantime. no rush.
ok, there's 3 files, anyway. I really should sleep, I suppose. 08:02
sorear sleep well 08:03
jnthn: let's badger him later?
jnthn sorear: Unless he self-badgers as he backlogs ;)
moritz backlog? what's that? :-)
jnthn sorear: Anyway, it'd be interesting to get a ruling either way, especially given I'm doing a bunch of optimizer work at the moment. 08:04
moritz but it's generally ok to just run ok eval 'code...'
erm, probably nok eval 'code..; 1' 08:05
dalek ecza: 952a401 | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
Wire %/%% up to regex compiler

Right now only the x+ % y case seems to work reliably. I'll have to debug this later, but at least you can start using non-deprecated syntax right away.		 08:06
sorear masak: does this count?
anyway I need to sleep now 08:07
jnthn Sleep well
sorear tomorrow: release v10, try to get todo working on master, try to get type definitions working on serialize
mls_ perl6: sub foo() returns Int {die; CATCH { default {} }}; say foo().WHAT 08:08
p6eval niecza v9-52-g198086c: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
..rakudo ca5f34: OUTPUT«Can only use get_what on a SixModelObject␤ in <anon> at /tmp/4w36JNPzlk:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/4w36JNPzlk:1␤␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Died␤ at /tmp/4xxK4FyORu line 1, column 56 - line 2, column 1␤ /tmp/4xxK4FyORu line 1, column 24-27␤»
masak sorear++
sorear: 'night.
mls_ fail for all three... 08:09
btw, morning perl6!
jnthn hi mls_ 08:11
ok, time to go worry about $dayjob for a bit.
mls_ have fun! ;) 08:12
moritz \o mls_
mls_ hi moritz!
still working in Buf? 08:13
on
moritz mls_: yes, TimToady++ pointed out an error in my patch in the backlog
but first I want to fix a few tests that the optimizer branch by jnthn++ broke 08:14
mls_ jnthn++ breaks things? Ts ts... 08:15
moritz well, he moves some errors from run time to compile time
mls_ that's probably not a bad thing ;) 08:16
moritz which is great for all cases except for tests that exercise these errors
mls_ oh yes, true. So lots of evals?
moritz right 08:17
ingy TimToady++ # thanks! 08:21
ingy heads off to implement % 08:22
masak ingy: you got your very own operator! :)
snarkyboojum modingy!
ingy masak: and it's ingfix!
masak :P 08:23
ingy masak: today I'll write a pegex receiver called Pegex::Pegex::Emitter::P6Regex 08:29
masak nice!
ingy think it should be trivial to do
although it may lead to discovering impedance mismatches between pegex and p6 08:31
which is cool I suppose
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masak LTM is cool, but sometimes things refuse to work until I add a :: somewhere in some rule. 08:35
I wish I had a better intuition for when and why that is needed.
dalek ast: 27d699f | moritz++ | S32- (5 files):
move some errors into eval()

Those conditions can be caught at compile time by a smart compiler or optimizer (as does the rakudo/optimizer branch), so guard against that		 08:39
moritz TimToady: what should Buf.Int do? since S02 says Buf is a "stringish view of an array of integers", I expected it to return .elems, not .decode.Int 08:41
nom: say Buf.new(130).decode('ascii')
p6eval nom ca5f34: OUTPUT«Invalid character in ASCII string␤ in method decode at src/gen/CORE.setting:4804␤ in <anon> at /tmp/AY5pDlLQyW:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/AY5pDlLQyW:1␤␤»
masak moritz: I think I expect that too, fwiw. 08:42
moritz though maybe I misunderstand "stringish view" 08:43
I understand it as "add a few methods and operators that make it look more like a Str"
but maybe what is meant is "hide most of the array semantics, and show more Str semantics instead"
the "joy" of not being a native speaker 08:44
jnthn moritz: Thanks :) 08:47
(for test updates)
dalek ast: 1c9a698 | moritz++ | S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t:
avoid warnings
moritz jnthn: you're welcome. I guess you're aware that undef.t still fails
jnthn moritz: Yes. 08:48
moritz jnthn: fwiw I look very much foward to the optimizer branch, not just because of speed improvements, but also because I like that it catches stuff at compile time 08:49
but I guess it needs improved error reporting before it can be merged
(line nunber and file of failure would be great :-) 08:50
masak IIUC, jnthn is just getting started :)
moritz I know :-)
oh, and extra credits for catching not just the first error, but all of them
masak nod.
jnthn Yeah...what I actually want is to aggregate instances of the same error 08:55
And then just list the places it's a problem.
Undeclared rotuine foo called (line 1,5,42)
Or some such.
Most of its catching stuff at compile time is just happy fallout of the analysis that it's doing anyway. 08:56
moritz sounds good 08:57
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masak sounds very sane. 09:03
"we're doing this analysis anyway; might's'well alert the user that things won't work at runtime."
moritz wonders if we'll ever hoist die() calls to compile time if we can prove that they'll happen eventually :-) 09:04
jnthn masak: Well, there are places where we can go a step further than what the optimizer needs just for the sake of catching errors too. There's such an opportunity in the multi-dispatch analysis, for example. 09:09
masak: Will just be a careful balance of not doing so much that the optimizer takes an age to run :) 09:10
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snarkyboojum you could have different optimisation levels depending on cli switch praps - so we can go crazy if we want to :) 09:11
e.g. --optimize gobonkers 09:12
:P 09:13
moritz As someone pointed out, you could have an attribute that says "optimize 09:14
the heck out of this routine", and your definition of heck would be a
parameter to the optimizer. -- Larry Wall in [email@hidden.address]
fortune++
snarkyboojum moritz: what's that reference - [email@hidden.address] ? 09:17
moritz snarkyboojum: a usenet message ID, I think 09:18
snarkyboojum oic - and what's the fortune reference? :)
moritz snarkyboojum: I got that quote from $ fortune perl -m heck\
erm, without that \ 09:19
snarkyboojum v. cool :) os x doesn't have such groovy linux doovywhatsits
also recorded on en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Larry_Wall 09:20
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jnthn
.oO( perl6 --heck ... :) )
 09:27
arnsholt masak: Did anyone ever compute the expected value of your match distribution? 09:30
moritz arnsholt: no, but we have the PDF, so it should be rather trivial 09:31
arnsholt Indeed
dalek kudo/nom: c5fc397 | moritz++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
[Buf] <=> should really be cmp, TimToady++
moritz niecza: sub f($n) { my @p; @p[0][$n] = @p[$n][0] = 1; for 0..40 -> $x { for 0..40 -> $y { @p[$x][$y] //= 0; @p[$x+1][$y] += @p[$x][$y]/2 if $y > 0; @p[$x][$y+1] += @p[$x][$y]/2 if $x > 0; } }; @p[40][40] }; my @dist = (0..40).map: { f($_) }; say [+] @dist; say ~@dist 09:32
p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«1␤0/1 0.0900535481254757 0.0900535481254757 0.0888840215264435 0.0865449683283792 0.083083169595244 0.0785921874549606 0.0732091609169496 0.0671083975072038 0.0604920766262119 0.0535786964403591 214859239356147155/4611686018427387904 0.0397386751092177 3829…
moritz by jlaire++
jlaire o/
btw if there's something really silly about that code, I'm all ears
moritz niecza: sub f($n) { my @p; @p[0][$n] = @p[$n][0] = 1; for 0..40 -> $x { for 0..40 -> $y { @p[$x][$y] //= 0; @p[$x+1][$y] += @p[$x][$y]/2 if $y > 0; @p[$x][$y+1] += @p[$x][$y]/2 if $x > 0; } }; @p[40][40] }; my @dist = (0..40).map: { f($_) }; say [+] @dist.pairs.map: *.key * *.value
jlaire doesn't seem too perl6ish 09:33
p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No value for parameter anon_16 in MAIN C7_ANON␤ at /tmp/kGqXJtEwkT line 0 (MAIN C7_ANON @ 0) ␤ at line 0 (KERNEL map @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 112 (CORE Any.map @ 2) ␤ at /tmp/kGqXJtEwkT line 1 (MAIN mainl…
moritz niecza: sub f($n) { my @p; @p[0][$n] = @p[$n][0] = 1; for 0..40 -> $x { for 0..40 -> $y { @p[$x][$y] //= 0; @p[$x+1][$y] += @p[$x][$y]/2 if $y > 0; @p[$x][$y+1] += @p[$x][$y]/2 if $x > 0; } }; @p[40][40] }; say [+] (0..40).map: { $_ * f($_) }
p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«7.11423030191258␤»
moritz niecza: say sqrt(40) 09:34
p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«6.32455532033676␤»
moritz seems sensible
(in general, the deviation from the exepectation value grows with the square root, so it seems sensible that the expected variation of one of the stacks is around sqrt(40) when the second is empty) 09:35
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moritz that's why I was all "wtf?" when I thought that masak++ had said it approached 1 (we just had a misunderstanding of what "it" was) 09:36
masak "it" is what I choose it to be :P
but it does make sense that it approaches 1 for increasing number of simulations, no? 09:37
it feels odd that it should approach any other number.
moritz what "it"? 09:38
masak approaching 1 corresponds to binary strings of length 79 having 40 bits of one kind and 39 bits of the other.
moritz well, it's clear that the number with the highest probability should be 1
but it should also be clear that the expected value should be > 1 09:39
at least to me, both are clear :-)
s/expected value/exectation value/ or whatever you call it
<N> == [+] N * P(N) for all N 09:40
masak "expected value", I think.
moritz or "first momentum" :-) 09:41
jlaire 2 has the same probability as 1, so it's not "the highest" :P
moritz niecza: sub f($n) { my @p; @p[0][$n] = @p[$n][0] = 1; for 0..40 -> $x { for 0..40 -> $y { @p[$x][$y] //= 0; @p[$x+1][$y] += @p[$x][$y]/2 if $y > 0; @p[$x][$y+1] += @p[$x][$y]/2 if $x > 0; } }; @p[40][40] }; say [+] (0..40).map: { $_**2 * f($_) } # second momentum
p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«72.8857696980874␤»
jlaire "expected value" == "expectation", in my mind
moritz rakudo: say 72.8857696980874 - 7.11423030191258 ** 2 09:42
p6eval rakudo ca5f34: OUTPUT«71.8857696980874␤»
moritz this... doesn't seem right
niecza: say 72.8857696980874 - 7.11423030191258 ** 2
p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«22.2734969094362␤»
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moritz so that's the variance 09:43
masak jlaire: why would 2 have the same probability as 1? 09:44
moritz niecza: say 22.2734969094362.sqrt # standard deviation
p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«4.71948057623254␤»
masak I fail to get an intuition for that.
moritz masak: consider two buckets with 38 things in each
masak: the probability that the next two coin flips select the same bucket is the same as the next two coin flips selecting different buckets 09:45
in the first case you get a difference of 2, in the second you get a difference of 1
hm, that doesn't tell us anything about the (37, 39) case though 09:47
if you don't just let the math loose on that problem, but actually stop to think about it, it's quite interesting :-)
masak :) 09:48
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moritz to come back to the Buf discussion... 09:52
somehow I'm not at all happy with the notion that Bufs can act as Str as long as they are ASCII only
since we already have a default encoding, why not default the Str view of Buf to .decode? 09:53
so I'd have Buf ~ Str redispatch to Buf.decode ~ Str
flussence sounds sane to me...
moritz which fails if the contents of the Buf can't be decoded with $?ENCODING 09:54
flussence and it'd work both ways
masak jlaire, moritz: I drew it out, and I now agree that the probabilities are the same for 1 and 2, at least when the two boxes start at 2 matches each.
moritz flussence: both ways? 09:55
the alternative is to die on Buf.{Str,Stringy}, and require explicit .decode
having *another* default (ASCII) for implicit conversions looks just wrong to me
(and very ASCII-centric :-)
nom: say Buf.new(0).decode('ascii') 09:56
p6eval nom ca5f34: OUTPUT«␀␤»
flussence moritz: i.e. Str.Buf doing .encode($?ENCODING), not necessarily round-trip safe
moritz flussence: wfm 09:57
flussence: I just hope that there aren't any operations that require that coercion implicitly
well, IO does...
masak moritz: +1 on disallowing implicit ASCII conversions. 09:58
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moritz nom is now in a state where it can do non-crawling-slow binary IO 09:59
so we can experiment with making .print and .say etc. go through .write(Buf) 10:00
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snarkyboojum what extension do people generally use for the perl6 scripts .pl? 10:01
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moritz uses .pl 10:04
I've also seen .pl6 in use
cognominal moritz, is it possible to use buf8 and pack/unpack so as to implement SPDY? 10:05
masak snarkyboojum: when I use an extension, I use .pl 10:06
snarkyboojum thanks guys
masak snarkyboojum: but usually I don't. scripts are executable files, and those don't generally need an extension.
moritz I guess my early exposre with Microsoft Windows has left its traces on me 10:07
snarkyboojum masak: true, though extensions might make finding perl scripts more amenable to *nix find etc 10:08
moritz ss/exposre with/exposure to/
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jnthn often uses .p6 fwiw 10:08
masak snarkyboojum: that has never been an issue for me in practice. 10:09
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snarkyboojum masak: how else would you easily identify perl scripts across a large filesystem - other than find grepping or ack'ing or something 10:10
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snarkyboojum how do you define a token or rule which uses the negation of another token/rule? 10:30
i.e. not <ws>
moritz <!ws>
or <!before <ws>> 10:31
iirc the two things mean the same
(note that it's zero-width)
snarkyboojum doh.. I tried ! on the outside ;) cheers
silly me
Mmm.. zero-width, so not possible for such a token def to capture? 10:32
moritz what should it capture? 10:33
do you want \S+ instead?
in general, if you say "what comes after is not a <foo>", how do you know where that token stops?
snarkyboojum when it starts matching <foo> ? 10:34
moritz that would be [<!foo> .]*
snarkyboojum [] is a non capturing group? 10:35
moritz right
snarkyboojum or (<!foo> .)* if I want to get my hands on it? 10:36
oops.. capturing by default right :) 10:37
I think I need to read S05 :)
moritz ([<!foo> .]*) is better
unless you want to have a separate capture for each character
snarkyboojum moritz: ok - thanks for your help
is parsing/grammars expected to be substantially faster in nom? 10:45
with the imminent regex rewrite/improvement? 10:48
jnthn Haven't seen any benchmark results from the new engine, but in theory it should be a big improvement. For one because it can do the declarative bits with an NFA. 10:50
snarkyboojum I'm parsing big chunks of text, so perhaps it's string handling etc again.. ?
jnthn What encoding is the text in? 10:51
The new engine will do everything with a fixed-width encoding, iiuc. Which should help. 10:52
snarkyboojum jnthn: charset=us-ascii 10:53
whatever that means :)
I'm basically slurping a 2.5MB file and parsing that :) 10:54
masak snarkyboojum: I simply never conduct system-wide searches for perl script files in my daily life. and if I did, that would probably indicate that I was looking for somebody *else's* perl script files -- in which case I couldn't make any assumptions about file endings anyway. 10:56
&
snarkyboojum masak: fair enough :)
masak: I tend do do find . -type f -name '*.someextension' quite often in my work.. perhaps there is a better way 10:57
anything obviously wrong with github.com/snarkyboojum/explorator...parsing.pl ? 11:06
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snarkyboojum do all grammars inherit from STD by default? 11:16
oh geebuz - I was referencing a subrule which I'd mispelled, i.e. didn't exist, and wasn't getting any errors :( 11:21
rakudo: say "test" 11:23
is p6eval deaded? 11:24
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p6eval rakudo c5fc39: OUTPUT«test␤» 11:25
snarkyboojum just sleepy praps
11:27 jesk joined 11:31 jferrero joined 11:32 mishin joined
[Coke] commutes. 11:34
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cognominal_ master: my $nm ='a' ; say qq|$nm\(...| 11:38
11:38 plobsing_ left, cognominal_ is now known as cognominal
cognominal nom: my $nm ='a' ; say qq|$nm\(...| 11:38
p6eval nom c5fc39: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 1␤»
moritz b: my $nm ='a' ; say qq|$nm\(...| 11:39
p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
moritz nom: (1/2) but role { } 11:40
p6eval nom c5fc39: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 3␤ in method BUILD at src/gen/CORE.setting:5325␤ in method BUILD_LEAST_DERIVED at src/gen/CORE.setting:573␤ in sub infix:<but> at src/gen/CORE.setting:7176␤ in <anon> at /tmp/di90YTDhSl:1␤ in <anon> at /…
cognominal what is b?
moritz the old rakudo/master
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jnthn moritz: hm, interesting. 11:41
moritz: oh, it's correct
moritz: Bug is that Rat declares method BUILD
Not submethod.
moritz changes and spectests 11:42
jnthn: that's from the times before submethod where implemented in nom
cognominal nom: my $nm ='a' ; say qq|$nm (...| 11:43
p6eval nom c5fc39: OUTPUT«a (...␤»
jnthn moritz: fairy nuff 11:44
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snarkyboojum perl6: grammar A { token a { <typo> }; token typ0 { . } } 12:00
p6eval pugs, rakudo c5fc39, niecza v9-53-g952a401: ( no output )
snarkyboojum shouldn't that complain about an undefined typo token?
jnthn They're methods, not subs. 12:01
snarkyboojum so it's ok to reference an undefined method?
moritz snarkyboojum: <foo> type calls are more like methods, so detected at runtime
jnthn snarkyboojum: Yes
moritz snarkyboojum: as long as it's never called... :-)
jnthn Thing is, a subclass could declare it. 12:02
moritz or a role mixed into it
jnthn Of course, we may be able to do something smartish
But it's non-trivial.
This is why any method inlining the optimizer does has to be undoable.
snarkyboojum ok - must be another error with my grammar that's causing it to never finish parsing then ;) 12:03
moritz snarkyboojum: have you seen jnthn++'s awesome grammar debugger?
snarkyboojum moritz: nope 12:04
moritz (there's a tracer too)
snarkyboojum sounds good - link?
moritz snarkyboojum: github.com/jnthn/grammar-debugger
snarkyboojum moritz: ta
mls_ success! when blocks work again. 12:06
12:06 hazhir joined
hazhir hello?! 12:06
snarkyboojum hazhir: hi - you sound concerned 12:08
12:12 espadrine joined
masak hazhir: hi. 12:16
hazhir: welcome.
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dalek kudo/nom: bfc3a42 | moritz++ | src/core/Rat.pm:
BUILD should be a submethod
 12:23
kudo/nom: 00c8180 | moritz++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
fix Buf thinko; fixes .[] indexing into Buf
masak oh -- it used to be .{} indexing? 12:27
moritz nom: say Buf.new(1, 2, 3).<1> 12:28
p6eval nom c5fc39: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$idx'; expected Int but got Str instead␤ in method at_key at src/gen/CORE.setting:4777␤ in method postcircumfix:<{ }> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1014␤ in <anon> at /tmp/31rOK8ol8W:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/31rOK8ol8W:1␤␤»…
moritz well, if it had worked :-)
masak don't use .<> which coerces to Str, duh :P 12:29
nom: say Buf.new(1, 2, 3){1}
p6eval nom c5fc39: OUTPUT«2␤»
moritz schtupid me 12:30
12:31 Trashlord left
masak ponders a blog post "We're all schtupid sometimes" 12:33
git and tests and a general plan of action -- all of them are wonderful safety nets in face of sudden stupidity.
pmichaud my tuit suppply continues to get hit badly :( 12:34
I'm only here for a few moments, should be back later today
masak pmichaud: :/ 12:35
moritz pmichaud: if I should do a release without prior regex fixes, please tell me
pmichaud I think I'll need to let you all collectively decide what's best to do here.
(more)
I may have to do some emergency travel today/tomorrow; yesterday evening my mother went into the hospital (we don't know what's wrong yet) and I may need to travel to help out 12:37
preliminary it looks like it may be nothing major, in which case I have time set aside tonight and tomorrow to definitively work on regexes
but if I have to travel (I should know in a couple of hours), then all bets are off for me for a few days 12:38
moritz would be +1 to waiting for a couple of hours then
jnthn What moritz said.
12:38 plobsing left
pmichaud I know I've been horribly unreliable of late on this, and haven't been able to focus on rakudo stuff, so I'm pretty deferential to anything you all decide to do. I'm hoping things clear up soon. 12:39
dalek ast: 50cfa3b | moritz++ | S0 (3 files):
test for RT #69518; also fix a test that relied on wrong outer scope for eval_dies_ok
masak +1 to waiting a couple hours. 12:40
masak hugs pmichaud
hope everything turns out alright. 12:41
pmichaud anyway, I have to arrange a few more things -- bbiaw
moritz rakudo: rakudo: my @a = a => 1, b => 2; for @a -> Pair $p ( $key, $value) { say $kez }
p6eval rakudo c5fc39: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 1, near "rakudo: my"␤»
moritz rakudo: my @a = a => 1, b => 2; for @a -> Pair $p ( $key, $value ) { say $key } 12:42
p6eval rakudo c5fc39: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 2 in sub-signature of parameter $p␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/R2XNEmV5GF:1␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3724␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3629␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.set…
dalek ast: bcb1a97 | Coke++ | S02-types/ (2 files):
niecza fudge
moritz rakudo: my @a = a => 1, b => 2; for @a -> Pair $p ( :$key, :$value ) { say $key }
p6eval rakudo c5fc39: OUTPUT«a␤b␤»
12:43 cognominal left, cognominal joined
[Coke] pmichaud: best wishes. 12:43
12:44 woosley left
[Coke] sorear: ping me if you want a patch for t/spectest.data 12:44
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dalek kudo/nom: 530c04f | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run new S06-signature/unpack-object.t
 12:57
[Coke] unpack-object? 12:59
moritz one can "unpack" objects in signatures
-> Pair $p ( :$key ) { ... } # unpacks the $.key attribute of $pair into the $key variable 13:00
felher Is there an implementation (or a branch) that supports user-defined array indexing at the moment?
jnthn Not afaik.
moritz doesn't have anything to do with the unpack() function
felher: no
[Coke] I just don't see the file, is all.
felher moritz: k, thnx :)
[Coke] only unpack-array 13:01
moritz [Coke]: forgot to push, my bad
dalek ast: fcfe955 | moritz++ | S06-signature/unpack-object.t:
test for unpacking objects in signatures
13:02 tomaw left
felher jnthn: oh, thnx to you, too, of course. :) 13:02
[Coke] moritz: ah, thank you. ;) 13:03
moritz [Coke]: thanks for catching my errors :-)
dalek ast: 37d1b61 | moritz++ | S03-metaops/zip.t:
test [Z+] (RT #92652)
 13:04
moritz rakudo: .say for 1, 2, 6 ... 33.4 13:05
p6eval rakudo 00c818: OUTPUT«1␤2␤6␤unable to deduce sequence␤ in sub <anon> at src/gen/CORE.setting:7259␤ in sub coro at src/gen/CORE.setting:3855␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3824␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3628␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3628␤ in…
moritz jnthn: did your optimizer work only consider dispatches to multis? 13:10
jnthn: because at the end of S06-signature/arity.t there's a failing dispatch due to arity in a dies_ok
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moritz which doesn't seem to be caught 13:10
and it's an only sub there
dalek ast: afae36a | moritz++ | S06-signature/arity.t:
.count and .arity on multis (RT #76646
 13:13
ast: c2545cc | moritz++ | S06-signature/arity.t:
move a possible compile time failure into an eval
jnthn moritz: Only to multis for now. 13:15
moritz: It'd make sense to do a similar analysis for onlies, because if we can prove that the types being passed will match the signature, then we can have the binder skip the type checks. 13:16
moritz: I just didn't get there yet.
13:16 kaleem left
moritz jnthn: ok, just wondering why it didn't catch that case 13:16
dalek ast: e8cf51c | moritz++ | S32-io/chdir.t:
fix misuse of file test operator
 13:17
jnthn moritz: For various reasons, multis are currently more interesting.
Goes without saying there's an awful lot of work to do in the area of optimization. 13:18
moritz could it be that we have no test file where we test type objects? 13:19
nom: say Any.name 13:20
p6eval nom 00c818: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in <anon> at /tmp/ysMn34r6f0:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/ysMn34r6f0:1␤␤»
moritz nom: say Any.^name
p6eval nom 00c818: OUTPUT«Any␤»
dalek ast: dbe034b | moritz++ | S12-class/type-object.t:
new test file for type objects
 13:22
jnthn moritz: I'm not sure we have any test file for native types either... 13:23
moritz jnthn: we have some pseudo tests
jnthn The work so far in nom on those is at a pretty early stage, but there's likely something testable.
moritz t/spec/S02-types/int-uint.t
dalek kudo/nom: 1108715 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run new test type-object.t
jnthn OK, will look over them.
moritz t/spec/S02-types/compact.t mentions uint8 (and is likely wrong)
nom: [[]].''().perl.say 13:25
p6eval nom 00c818: OUTPUT«Method '' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤ in <anon> at /tmp/XmBb4d_lab:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/XmBb4d_lab:1␤␤»
13:26 arnsholt joined
moritz down to 32 tickets that are marked as 'testneeded' 13:27
[Coke] moritz++
I'll try to fill your queue later. ;) 13:28
moritz mom: say Any.^roles.WHAT 13:29
nom: say Any.^roles.WHAT
p6eval nom 00c818: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤» 13:30
moritz nom: say Parcel ~~ Positional
p6eval nom 00c818: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
dalek ast: 54c3e07 | moritz++ | S12-introspection/roles.t:
test that introspection returns Perl 6 types (RT #73134)
 13:31
jlaire < masak> jlaire: why would 2 have the same probability as 1? 13:33
late reply, but there's a very simple reason
dalek ast: 7336806 | moritz++ | S12-class/type-object.t:
test the return value of a named class declaration (RT #72690)
 13:34
jlaire 0/1 must go through the states 1/1 and 1/2
and 0/2 must come from 1/2
and when we are at 1/2, it's 50-50 chance whether we get to 0/1 or 0/2
moritz jlaire++
I had a similar but faulty explanation 13:35
13:35 mishin left
jlaire I see 13:36
my intuition works much better with small numbers :)
masak jlaire++ 13:37
snarkyboojum I gave up trying to parse my 2.5MB file when rakudo hit 3.2GB of RAM usage :| 13:38
jnthn snarkyboojum: nom or b?
snarkyboojum nom
works for smaller input 13:39
dalek ast: ec38923 | moritz++ | S12-methods/calling_sets.t:
test for 1.*WHAT (which is forbidden), RT #72818
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jnthn snarkyboojum: OK, I'd be interested to look into that at some point. 13:40
snarkyboojum jnthn: great - will gist some details then
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jnthn snarkyboojum: thanks 13:45
moritz nom: 1.*sqrt 13:46
p6eval nom 00c818: OUTPUT«Parameter '(null)' requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤ in method sqrt at src/gen/CORE.setting:2200␤ in method dispatch:<.*> at src/gen/CORE.setting:728␤ in <anon> at /tmp/Ur7DzA3cg4:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/Ur7DzA3cg4:1␤␤»
moritz I think I found the problem
jnthn Worst compile error of the day: CS1012: Too many characters in character literal 13:48
...what?!
masak jnthn: what emitted that, Pascal? :P 13:49
jnthn moritz: oh...
masak: C#!
moritz perfectly fine and comprehensible error message
it's just the underlying limitation that sucks
jnthn oh...I see what ti's done
...grr, it parsed JavaScript as C#. 13:50
:/
moritz is "character literal" a string?
jlaire no, it's a single character
moritz ah
then even the limitations makes sense :-)
jnthn yeah, makes sense now
jlaire "More than one character" would be more explicit than "Too many"
jnthn jlaire: Yeah
"Character literal should contain *a* character" woulda been better :) 13:51
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jlaire 'xx' contains a character :) 13:51
so something like "must contain exactly one character" 13:52
dalek kudo/nom: 6551282 | moritz++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
in .* dispatch, do not turn all method calls into calls on the type object
 13:53
moritz nom: class A { method x($) { say 'in A.x' } }; A.?x() 13:55
p6eval nom 00c818: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤ in method x at /tmp/JSaq4KnVpS:1␤ in method dispatch:<.?> at src/gen/CORE.setting:711␤ in <anon> at /tmp/JSaq4KnVpS:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/JSaq4KnVpS:1␤␤»
jnthn moritz: oh, good catch
moritz I'm quite sure this one is wrong too
masak having drawn a few more diagrams on the whiteboard, I now see what TimToady++ meant by "the bottom two angles trimmed off".
jnthn moritz: I think it's correct. 13:57
moritz: The method dispatch was successful.
That's what .?/.+/.* are about.
moritz does .+ really mean "dispatch to all methods, at least one" and not "dispatch to all matching candidates, at least on"?
jnthn Now, yes 13:58
Not in b, under the previous dispatch model.
moritz then my mental model needs updating
jnthn *nod* 13:59
Yes, this is fallout from the new proto/multi semantics.
moritz the spec is silent on that matter 14:01
ie reading it doesn't give me any indication which interpretation it favors
[Coke] Promise me that no matter what, we won't switch to ant. ;) 14:02
moritz ant? the java build system?
[Coke] Aye.
moritz [Coke]: promise given. 14:03
[Coke] breathes easy.
jnthn moritz: The stuff in S06 and/or S12 on nested dispatchers is probably the closest we have, but yeah, it hints at this rather than really calls it out, it seems. 14:04
moritz nom: class A { method foo { say 'in A.foo' } }; my $name = 'foo'; A."$name" 14:07
p6eval nom 110871: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments at line 1, near ""␤»
moritz nom: class A { method foo { say 'in A.foo' } }; my $name = 'foo'; A.?"$name"()
p6eval nom 110871: ( no output )
moritz nom: class A { method foo { say 'in A.foo' } }; my $name = 'foo'; A."$name"()
p6eval nom 110871: OUTPUT«in A.foo␤»
moritz that's b0rked
nom: class A { method foo { say 'in A.foo' } }; my $name = 'foo'; A.?"foo"() 14:08
p6eval nom 110871: ( no output )
jnthn hm 14:09
Oddness
moritz nom: class A { method foo { say 'in A.foo' } }; my $name = 'foo'; A.+"foo"()
p6eval nom 110871: OUTPUT«Method 'Capture[0x40928f0]' not found for invocant of type 'A'␤ in method dispatch:<.+> at src/gen/CORE.setting:717␤ in <anon> at /tmp/juhdKSv_m7:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/juhdKSv_m7:1␤␤»
jnthn oh.
...well, there's our problem. ;)
moritz the name gets messed up? 14:10
jnthn Yeah
name is a PAST tree but something assumes it's just a string.
moritz the .* dispatcher probably 14:11
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dalek ast: 9d68b77 | moritz++ | S12-methods/calling_sets.t:
fudge calling_sets.t for rakudo, and use dies_ok instead of a custom construct
 14:13
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jnthn moritz: It'll be one of the transforms in Actions. 14:14
dalek kudo/nom: fce1d9b | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run calling_sets.t
moritz rakudo: class A { method foo {} }; say A.can("foo").WHAT 14:17
p6eval rakudo 110871: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
jnthn .can is one of those things where people expect it to do/be everything. So I picked one of them. :) 14:18
moritz jnthn: would you be fine with a spectest that tests that it returns something Positional?
jnthn moritz: The spec certainly says it should be something iterable. 14:19
There's some confusion over whether you should be able to invoke it and have it invoke the first thing in the list.
dalek ast: 179a3cb | moritz++ | S12-introspection/can.t:
test that .can returns a proper Perl 6 object (RT #74386)
jnthn If that's the case, then it is Parcel + a role, or some other type?
moritz just have Any.invoke delegate to Any.[0].invoke # SCNR 14:20
jnthn I'm open to doing various things here, just don't have a strong feeling for what's best.
:P
moritz actually I don't have no idea, I just want to close RT #74286
moritz does so 14:21
jnthn :)
moritz down to 28 tickets that are tacked as testneeded
*tagged
14:22 lestrrat left
gfldex nom: grammar F { token TOP { { say $_ } \w } }; F.parse('a'); 14:23
p6eval nom 110871: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('gist')␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:4882␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/QCHtCYyIPW:1␤ in regex TOP at /tmp/QCHtCYyIPW:1␤ in method parse at src/gen/CORE.setting:6119␤ in <anon> at /tmp/QCHtCYyIPW:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/QCHtCYyIPW:1…
moritz nom: ('a' R~ 'b') = 1
p6eval nom 110871: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a non-container␤ in <anon> at /tmp/gus0Pc72O4:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/gus0Pc72O4:1␤␤»
14:24 wtw left
dalek ast: e461a48 | moritz++ | S03-metaops/reverse.t:
return value of infix R~ is not assignable (RT #93350)
 14:26
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masak moritz++ 14:28
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masak rakudo: class Worms {}; role Can[::T] { method open { say "OH NOES you let out the {T.WHAT.perl}!" } }; Can[Worms].new.open 14:30
p6eval rakudo 110871: OUTPUT«OH NOES you let out the Worms!␤»
moritz jnthn: the old ruling was that a proto sub foo would make all susequent 'sub foo's in that scope a multi automatically -- is that still current spec? 14:32
masak: btw. I like .^name better than .perl on type objects
nom: say 1.^name
p6eval nom 110871: OUTPUT«Int␤»
masak gotcha.
I agree. 14:33
moritz .perl is always implementation dependent
masak in many cases in both Rakudo and Niecza, .perl doesn't generate Perl code :( 14:34
dalek ast: 85b1a79 | moritz++ | S06-multi/proto.t:
refudge proto.t for rakudo and remove outdated semantics
 14:35
moritz yep, but you can submit that as a bug :-)
masak niecza: "foo" ~~ /foo/; say $/.perl
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p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(3) text(foo) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤» 14:35
moritz you can't if Any.perl turns out to be ::('Any') or so
masak std: #<match from(0) to(3) text(foo) pos([].list) named({}.hash)> 14:36
p6eval std 9fe2e1b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
masak ok, that actually seems to be valid Perl 6 code.
jlaire #<hah, nice>
masak but I'm still less than impressed.
moritz it's perfectly fine .gist output 14:37
masak I thought it was #`<hah, nice> these days.
jnthn moritz: yes, currently still spec; there's even a todo comment in Actions.pm about it :)
moritz jnthn: ok, thanks
dalek kudo/nom: ef6536f | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run S06-multi/proto.t
 14:38
moritz down to 26
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masak \o/ 14:38
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jnthn moritz++ 14:40
14:40 bazqux left
cognominal where is the doc for the "type characters" for the pir:: routines like the Q in pir::set__1Qii(..) ? 14:40
moritz cognominal: parrot/compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir 14:41
cognominal thx moritz++
masak Ӝ 14:45
Cyrillic had Camelia long before UTF-8 did ;)
moritz .u camelia
phenny moritz: Sorry, no results for 'camelia'.
14:45 cognominal_ joined
masak er, Unicode. mixing up of levels. 14:45
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moritz .u Ӝ 14:46
phenny U+04DC CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ZHE WITH DIAERESIS (Ӝ)
TimToady looks more like the Space Needle to me
phenny TimToady: 06:07Z <sorear> tell TimToady fixed!
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japhb_ b: multi f("a") { "got a" }; multi f("b") { "got b" }; say f("c"); 14:48
p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'f'. Available candidates are:␤:(Str where ("a"))␤:(Str where ("b"))␤␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/m4U_aS6h8P␤» 14:49
japhb_ nom: multi f("a") { "got a" }; multi f("b") { "got b" }; say f("c");
p6eval nom 110871: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'f'. Available candidates are:␤:(Str)␤:(Str)␤␤ in sub f at /tmp/Z5iAwET0CV:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/Z5iAwET0CV:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/Z5iAwET0CV:1␤␤»
moritz Signature.perl is known to be crappy in nom
but it's Perl 6 code, so not hard to patch
indeed that'd be a very nice contribution 14:50
japhb_ jnthn, can nom be improved here? My understanding of the underlying weakness is that Parameter has no .constraints method like b did. Is that an easy fix, or did the nom changes make it hard?
moritz, I would if I knew how to implement .constraints. :-) 14:51
moritz japhb_: fair point
jnthn japhb_: Actually it should be easier than in b to do that stuff 14:52
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jnthn japhb_: Oh, darn, I didn't get the thing I want meant to fix for you done at the weekend...got swallowed up playing with compile-time multi-dispatch. Sorry. 14:52
s/want/was/
14:53 tomaw joined
jnthn Anyway, there's no "deep problem" stopping better signature introspection/.perl. 14:53
14:53 cognominal joined
jnthn Just not done yet 14:53
japhb_ jnthn, OK, cool beans 14:55
TimToady std: / x+ % y / 14:57
p6eval std 9fe2e1b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
japhb_ jnthn, also, I noticed when working on the usage generator last night that Parameter.named_names is not a Perl 6 array (I'm guessing it's a view into a Parrot iterable?). In any case, what do I need to fix to promote it to a full Perl 6 container properly?
TimToady sorear++ 14:58
moritz nom: sub f($x) { }; say &f.signature.params
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«Parameter<24687928>␤»
moritz nom: sub f($x, $y) { }; say &f.signature.params
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«Parameter<12983432> Parameter<12919480>␤»
moritz nom: sub f($x, $y) { }; say &f.signature.params.[0].named_names 14:59
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«␤»
moritz nom: sub f(:$x, :$y) { }; say &f.signature.params.[0].named_names
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'String'␤ in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:3349␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:4882␤ in <anon> at /tmp/INQ5vLeT8l:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/INQ5vLeT8l:1␤␤»
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moritz nom: sub f(:$x, :$y) { }; say nqp::p6box_s(&f.signature.params.[0].named_names) 14:59
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«x␤»
japhb_ moritz, ah, looking at the array again, maybe it's just not an array of Perl 6 strings. :-) 15:00
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; say &f.signature.params.[0].named_names
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'String'␤ in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:3349␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:4882␤ in <anon> at /tmp/KdSM2iroXg:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/KdSM2iroXg:1␤␤»
moritz japhb_: that should be easy-ish for me to fix
japhb_ moritz, ah, cool, thank you
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; say nqp::p6box_s &f.signature.params.[0].named_names 15:01
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«z␤»
jnthn nqp::p6type can help with those things, but it only goes one level deep and this needs two.
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; say nqp::p6box_s &f.signature.params.[0].named_names.[1]
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«␤»
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; say nqp::p6box_s &f.signature.params.[0].named_names.[0]
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«z␤»
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; say nqp::p6box_s &f.signature.params.[0].named_names.WHAT 15:02
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤␤»
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; say &f.signature.params.[0].named_names.WHAT
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
15:02 nwc10 left
moritz japhb_: btw the attributes of class Parameter are declared in src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm 15:03
japhb_: which is why src/core/Parameter.pm looks so suspiciously empty :-)
japhb_ moritz, ah oh. 15:04
moritz wonders how early in the bootstrap Parameter.named_names is called
jnthn May well not be.
Unless we need it to dump a signature. 15:05
moritz jnthn: I'm just a bit scared that if I do fancy stuff there, I break error reporting while compiling the setting
jnthn perhaps, but OTOH Str and so forth are already set up in BOOTSTRAP 15:06
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; pir::say pir::typeof__SP nqp::getattr(pir::perl6_decontainerize__PP f.signature.params.[0], Parameter, '$!named_names') 15:07
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤Use of uninitialized value in string context␤===SORRY!===␤error:imcc:The opcode 'perl6_decontainerize_p_p_p_p' (perl6_decontainerize<4>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments␤ in file '(file unknown)' li…
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; pir::say pir::typeof__SP nqp::getattr(pir::perl6_decontainerize__PP(f.signature.params.[0]), Parameter, '$!named_names')
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«Method 'signature' not found for invocant of class 'Nil'␤ in <anon> at /tmp/raOrr_crzZ:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/raOrr_crzZ:1␤␤»
15:07 jlaire left
moritz nom: sub f(:z($x), :$y) { }; pir::say pir::typeof__SP nqp::getattr(pir::perl6_decontainerize__PP(&f.signature.params.[0]), Parameter, '$!named_names') 15:07
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«ResizablePMCArray␤» 15:08
15:08 jlaire joined
japhb_ ah-ha! 15:09
15:09 thou joined
moritz and that gets perl6ized to Parcel, but not its contents 15:09
which are parrot strings
japhb_ moritz, yep, makes sense
moritz which means I can't even .map on the Parcel-ized RPA 15:11
but need to do a loop over the indexes and extract the items with nqp::atpos 15:12
jnthn Right.
moritz the setting would be cleaner in places if we had a MAP_PARROT_ARRAY(RPA, BLOCK) helper or so 15:13
which also deals with other parrot array types
hm, but the block would need strange argument handling
jnthn yeah 15:14
nom: nqp::for() # does it exist?
p6eval nom ef6536: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized nqp:: opcode 'nqp::for' at line 1, near " # does it"␤»
jnthn No. :)
moritz that would be nice indeed
jnthn Maybe try adding it into NQP.pir's map
Same place as nqp::while 15:15
(in nqp repo, src/PAST/)
masak TimToady: I'd like to request a %%% operator for optional separator *before* a repetition :P
TimToady gee, who would every write one of those? <whistles>
moritz jnthn: is there a PAST 'for' node already? 15:16
TimToady *ever
jnthn moritz: Yeah, it's a pasttype on PAST::Op, like while et al
moritz: And if we're really lucky then it won't mind a Perl 6 block as its second arg...but it may...not sure.
moritz well, nqp::while doesn't expect a block iirc 15:17
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TimToady masak: my motivation for deciding to add %% was that I'd like to encourage languages to allow optional trailing ',' 15:17
moritz nqp:: nqp::while(1, say 'foo')
masak TimToady: aye.
TimToady: it's a worthy cause.
moritz nqp: nqp::while(1, say('foo'))
jnthn nom: nqp::while(1, say 'foo')
masak TimToady: and the parallel with mainline %% is nice, too.
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«(timeout)foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤fo…
nom ef6536: OUTPUT«(timeout)foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo␤foo…
TimToady well, kinda 15:18
masak or should I say mainlang.
TimToady it's really more like % | %%
jnthn moritz: yeah but while doesn't expect anything to be set :)
PerlJam greetings #perl6 people
jnthn o/ PerlJam
TimToady take him to our leader...oh wait... 15:19
masak greetings oh Jam o' Perl.
PerlJam what's new in the world today?
15:20 alester joined
moritz PerlJam: lots of backlog :-) 15:20
masak PerlJam: there's an equal probability that there's 1 match or 2 matches in the remaining box! 15:21
PerlJam masak: and you have proof?
masak PerlJam: jlaire gave a good one.
PerlJam: both (0, 1) and (0, 2) have to go through (1, 2), and they distribute from there 50%-50%.
moritz irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-09-26#i_4482081
masak without loss of generality we can assume a <= b in (a, b). 15:22
moritz $ ./nqp -e 'nqp::for([1, 2], say(1))' 15:23
1
but it doesn't seem to be good for anything else :( 15:24
PerlJam #perl6 has such odd conversations sometimes :)
masak you did ask :P
moritz masak: ... as long as you include that factor of 2 in the absolut propabilities 15:25
PerlJam wonders if there's a market for #perl6-summaries ...
masak moritz: nod. 15:26
moritz PerlJam: fwiw I have an ilbot branch that allows colloborative summary editing
I think one day I'l just push it online forcibly, and flush the host of bugs that people report :-) 15:27
PerlJam #perl6-summary: no, %% is not a joke; equal probabilty of 1 or 2 matches; Rakudo doesn't parse (1,2,3) X++ (1,2,3) properly; still no release; etc. 15:28
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jnthn std: (1,2,3) X++ (1,2,3) 15:28
p6eval std 9fe2e1b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Postfix found where infix expected (omit whitespace?) at /tmp/xQ2hihsaN5 line 1:␤------> (1,2,3) X⏏++ (1,2,3)␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»…
jnthn Guess Rakudo somehow parses it as X+ +(1,2,3) 15:29
PerlJam jnthn: it does
jnthn Gotta give it marks for effort :P
TimToady it's LTA that it says to omit whitespace in STD
PerlJam I even see why, but I'm not sure how to fix it.
moritz proper LTM would likely help 15:30
TimToady should probably say "add whitespace to disambiguate" if there's a metaop in front
moritz japhb_: it seems I have a fix for that .named_names problem... will push after sucessful spectest (after commute) 15:32
japhb_ moritz, thank you! 15:33
dalek d: 937241d | larry++ | STD.pm6:
tweak postfix where infix expected msg
 15:35
TimToady now says "(change whitespace?)"
jnthn stroll, bbs 15:37
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sorear good * #perl6 15:39
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sorear masak: in Scheme it is traditional for objects with no source representation to be output by show as #<whatever>, like #<subr> for native subs 15:40
TimToady
.oO( .perl-try-harder )
 15:41
sorear masak: otoh, the Scheme parser knows about this and complains loudly if it sees #<
TimToady std: #<subr>
sorear masak: I wonder what a good analogous syntax for p6 would be
p6eval std 9fe2e1b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
TimToady hmm
did we remove that message? 15:42
std: #<subr> ; 15:44
p6eval std 9fe2e1b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
masak TimToady: I was surprised too. 15:45
sorear: oh, so the problem is that a Match can't be created outside of a .parse call? 15:46
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im2ee Hello p6's world! :) 15:51
15:52 espadrine joined
PerlJam hello im2ee 15:52
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masak cz im2ee! 15:55
sorear: would I be able to make a regex match at BEGIN time and then use it in various ways at runtime? 15:56
masak decommutes 15:58
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sorear phenny: tell masak Match objects in niecza hold references deep into the heart of the regex engine, to support things like $match.CURSOR.commit; ; I haven't tried writing Match.new yet but I doubt it will be pretty. 16:05
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
sorear phenny: tell masak Yes.
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
sorear niecza: my $x = 5; say '$x = \qq[$x]' 16:08
p6eval niecza v9-53-g952a401: OUTPUT«$x = 5␤»
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sorear flussence: How would you prefer to be identified in the Niecza change list? 16:14
phenny: tell flussence How would you prefer to be identified in the Niecza change list?
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when flussence is around.
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dalek kudo/nom: 16cb2b6 | moritz++ | src/core/Parameter.pm:
return Perl 6 strings from Parameter.named_names, japhb_++
 16:18
flussence oh, hm 16:20
phenny flussence: 16:14Z <sorear> tell flussence How would you prefer to be identified in the Niecza change list?
flussence I dunno, by username I guess.
sorear I credit people like Description of feature. (Solomon Foster) 16:21
so (flussence) here?
flussence yeah, works for me 16:22
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dalek ecza: 82a017b | sorear++ | docs/announce.v10:
Add draft of announce.v10
 16:31
sorear looking-at appreciated 16:32
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sorear [Coke]: it would probable be better to have an actual spectest.data patch from you, yes. 16:35
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flussence looked-at, found nothing to nitpick 16:37
jnthn [Breaking changes] - maybe a "None" under it
sorear Oh, oops 16:39
I meant to delete empty subheads 16:40
dalek ecza: 0faf460 | sorear++ | docs/announce.v10:
Delete empty subhead
jnthn Even better. 16:41
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japhb_ moritz++, thank you -- building now 16:54
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jlaire s/etc/etc./ 16:55
or is it valid without the dot? 16:56
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donri doesn't panda run on nom? 16:57
protoregexes not yet implemented at line 10, near ";\ntoken va"
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japhb_ S06 says: "If an attempted dispatch to MAIN fails, the USAGE routine is called. If there is no USAGE routine, a default message is printed to standard error. If the MAIN routine does not declare a named parameter :$help, and --help is passed as a command line argument to the program, the usage message is printed to standard output instead." 16:58
In the face of MAIN being a multi with some having a :$help and some not, how should I decide that? 16:59
(My gut feeling is that predicating the output stream based on whether or not a :$help param exists, given that if the usage message is being shown by definition no MAIN candidate matched, makes no sense. --help should just always be recognized if the automated output kicks in at all.) 17:00
donri looks like it's JSON::Tiny
jnthn japhb_: Maybe you don't need to. If the dispatch failed, then at that point see if you got passed --help.
donri tadzik? :)
jnthn donri: No, it doesn't, for the reason stated in the error.
japhb_ jnthn, yeah, kinda where I was going
moritz japhb_: that's probably the best way 17:01
jnthn donri: This is perhaps the most major blocker to a nom-based release.
donri aok
moritz donri: yep, JSON::Tiny is know not to work yet on nom
(misses proto regexes and action methods) 17:02
japhb_ I've got to commute, so can't fix the spec right now, but if no one else gets to it today, I'll ask how. :-) 17:04
s/how/for a commitbit/
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sorear diakopter, or anyone else who can: before I have to make an embarrasing retraction, could you make sure github.com/downloads/sorear/niecza...cza-10.zip actually does run on .NET? 17:11
jlaire sorear: seems to work for me (2+2 -> 4) 17:14
should I run a test suite or something?
diakopter sorear: ok; how shall I test it 17:15
sorear: hm, that .zip failed to unzip 17:17
sorear jlaire: 2+2 -> 4 was all I really wanted
jlaire 7zip extracted it fine
sorear: k 17:18
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tadzik donri: hm? 17:20
donri nevermind :) 17:21
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[Coke] sorear: (patch) it's going to be a lot of incremental changes. I can just keep my fork updated, I suppose. 17:30
(or send you lots of teeny patches) 17:31
sorear [Coke]: How about I just give you a commit bit? 17:33
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masak \o/ 17:36
phenny masak: 16:05Z <sorear> tell masak Match objects in niecza hold references deep into the heart of the regex engine, to support things like $match.CURSOR.commit; ; I haven't tried writing Match.new yet but I doubt it will be pretty.
masak: 16:05Z <sorear> tell masak Yes.
masak I see; ok :)
sorear v10 announce sent. 17:38
im2ee Which rakudo's branch should i have installed?
And which version. 17:39
PerlJam im2ee: for what purpose? 17:40
im2ee For learning now, and developing i future (i hope so). :) 17:41
On Rakudo Star i have some problems with IO::Select.
PerlJam If your sole criteria is "fewer problems with IO::Select", I'm not sure what to tell you :) 17:43
s/criteria/criterion/
im2ee: optimistically, I'd recommend that you use the nom branch. 17:44
im2ee: realistically, I'd recommend that you also use Bejing
im2ee It's only the reason of my thoughs. I asked because i want to have something newer than Rakudo Start. :) 17:45
Thanks PerlJam :) 17:46
sorear Perl 6 uses the term "module" for two related but distinct things
1. objects created by the 'module' statement and represented by an instance of ModuleHOW or subclass
2. .pm(6) files on the fileystem that can be loaded with 'use'
this is starting to cause serious confusion, and I think one or the other should be renamed 17:47
people see that IO::Socket::INET is a module(1) and assume it's also a module(20
PerlJam sorear: which would you change and to what?
(I'd change #2 to be something like a "module distribution myself) 17:48
sorear maybe #2 could become 'loadable module'
PerlJam #2 may really be multiple #1 modules
diakopter distro? 17:49
sorear PerlJam: in p5speak, a distribution is a group of related modules
PerlJam It's a good thing this is #perl6 then :)
sorear CPAN stores distributions; each distribution contains 1 or more .pm file 17:50
moritz or 0 17:52
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PerlJam #2 is more like a "module file" so we can make up our own term: modfile :) 17:54
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masak why is the ambiguity a problem, or causing confusion? I can point to (a) some source code, (b) a file on disk, or (c) some output, and in each case I can say "program" and mean it. 17:59
diakopter niecza: module A { }; say A.WHAT 18:01
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method gist in class A␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 619 (CORE C341_ANON @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 620 (CORE gistcat @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 623 …
sorear masak: people get confused and frustrated when we say "you can't 'use IO::Socket::INET'"
diakopter niecza: module A { }; say A.WHO 18:03
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«Stash.new(...)␤»
diakopter nom: module A { }; say A.WHO
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
jnthn nom: module A { }; say A.WHO.WHAT 18:05
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«Stash()␤»
diakopter niecza: module A { class A { } }; say A::a 18:06
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method postcircumfix:<( )> in class Any␤ at /tmp/AIowJGt4W_ line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2115 (CORE C1022_ANON @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2116 (C…
diakopter ^^ error's lTA
sorear impressive 18:07
perl6: module A { }; say A.HOW.WHAT 18:08
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«ClassHOW()␤»
..rakudo 16cb2b: OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::ModuleHOW'␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:4893␤ in <anon> at /tmp/0Ba9ZS0b5W:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/0Ba9ZS0b5W:1␤␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«Module␤»
sorear # niecza gets this one a bit wrong
heh, I found a hole in nom's not tying
jnthn not? 18:09
oh, knot
Well
It's kinda concious
diakopter nom: module ::A { class ::A { } }; say A::A
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol 'A::&A'␤ in <anon> at /tmp/KFWbULHKVC:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/KFWbULHKVC:1␤␤»
jnthn Though I guess I'm resigned to having to tie that knot.
diakopter nom: module ::A { class ::A { } }; say ::A::A 18:10
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol A::A␤»
jnthn What does ::A there even mean?
sorear niecza: module ::A { class ::A { } }; say ::A::A # curious
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«A()␤»
sorear jnthn: I think diakopter is using his fuzz tester
jnthn sorear: Yeah, I'm still curious though :) 18:11
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diakopter "What does ::A there even mean [to diakopter]?" - no clue. to nom? no clue either 18:13
sorear japhb_: Hi!
japhb_ sorear, o/ 18:14
sorear japhb_: what's your github username?
diakopter nom: say ::::
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Name component may not be null at line 1, near "::"␤»
diakopter ah
japhb_ moritz++ # Fixing two bugs that I previously needed ugly hacks to work around before I got up this morning. :-)
sorear, japhb of course. ;-) 18:15
sorear japhb_: you can now push to roast and specs
moritz sorear: did you add him to the 'perl6' team? 18:16
sorear yes
japhb_ sorear, thank you
moritz great, sorear++
diakopter niecza: say ::.WHAT 18:20
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«PseudoStash()␤»
diakopter niecza: PseudoStash()
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method postcircumfix:<( )> in class PseudoStash␤ at /tmp/uJSYYl3Mz1 line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2115 (CORE C1022_ANON @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line…
sorear out 18:21
niecza: say ::.{'CORE'}.WHO.{'&say'}.(52)
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«52␤Bool::True␤»
diakopter interesting 18:23
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diakopter nom: say ::.{'CORE'}.WHO.{'&say'}.(52) 18:24
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot look up empty name␤»
masak niecza: ::<CORE>.WHO<say>(52)
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method postcircumfix:<( )> in class Any␤ at /tmp/AsrNTmEu_b line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2115 (CORE C1022_ANON @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2116 (C…
masak niecza: ::.<CORE>.WHO<say>(52)
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method postcircumfix:<( )> in class Any␤ at /tmp/QIT2DxaPBc line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2115 (CORE C1022_ANON @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2116 (C…
diakopter niecza: ::.<CORE>.WHO<&say>(52) 18:25
p6eval niecza v9-55-g0faf460: OUTPUT«52␤»
masak oh, right. 18:26
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tadzik 'evening 18:35
masak 'e 18:36
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diakopter nom: module :::A { }; say A # confused 18:37
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &A␤ in <anon> at /tmp/sewiqQ3IvK:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/sewiqQ3IvK:1␤␤»
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diakopter nom: module :::A { }; say ::A 18:37
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol A␤»
diakopter nom: module :::A { }; say :::A
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol :A␤»
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moritz std: sub f($x) { my $x = $x } 19:14
p6eval std 937241d: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Useless redeclaration of variable $x (see line 1) at /tmp/3nAujHP5zv line 1:␤------> sub f($x) { my $x⏏ = $x }␤ok 00:01 124m␤»
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im2ee good night! 19:52
masak dobranoc!
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[Coke] sorear: commit bit is fine with me. I'll stick with t/spectest.data for now and ping you before mucking with anything else. 20:06
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[Coke] (me llamo "coke" on github) 20:08
masak phenny: es en "me llamo 'coke'"? 20:09
phenny masak: "I call it 'coke'" (es to en, translate.google.com)
20:09 MayDaniel left
tadzik it's spanish "My name is" 20:12
hah, the Spanish classes showed the value, other than the idea for a Dancer port to Perl 6
masak tadzik: I surmised as much.
the -o ending is telltale of it being first person singular. that's the same as Latin, it seems. 20:13
[Coke] My son is taking his second year of spanish. trying to encourage him by dredging up my long lost 7 years of study.
20:14 zby_home left
jnthn "Cerveza por favor!" 20:14
masak [Coke]: hey, weren't you studying Mandarin just now? 20:15
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PerlJam "Donde esta el baño?" 20:15
masak .oO( 我的名子 llamo masak )
jnthn PerlJam: Yes, that comes in useful after applying the other phrase several times :P 20:16
[Coke] masak: Hai.
masak that's Japanese :P
[Coke] schiesse! I think I missed the deadline to sign up for the mandarin intro at continuing ed. 20:17
masak :/
PerlJam and that's german, looks like
masak but misspelled.
[Coke] masak: и? 20:18
masak aarhj :)
phenny: en de "shit!"?
phenny masak: The en to de translation failed, sorry!
TimToady well, it's Japanese in the sense that all those characters are used...but...
[Coke] TimToady: he meant mine. 20:19
TimToady ah, I see
[Coke] I'm a little scattered at the moment.
TimToady 'course, there are at least 14 characters that are pronounced "hai" in Mandarin... 20:21
masak is there a word like "HiFi" in Japanese? 20:22
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tadzik o, coś leci 20:23
ww
TimToady well, Japanese doesn't have any [f] natively except at the beginning of /fu/
well /hu/, if you're being phonemic
however, they do have ways to write it 20:24
ハイファイ
== 'hi-fi' 20:25
ファ is a funny digraph, since it would presumably mean 'fua', but it really means to say 'fa' as a foreign sound 20:26
supernovus An interesting nom error: "Incorrect pre-compiled version of lib/HTTP/Easy/PSGI.pm loaded" -- I've never come across this one before. If I remove the .pir file, it works fine. All the rest of the pre-compiled libraries work fine. 20:27
masak TimToady: interesting. 20:30
diakopter niecza: say 'abcbabcbabcba' ~~ / a: %% b: %% c / 20:32
p6eval niecza v10: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
diakopter so it's right-associative?
masak are you supposed to use it without a quantifier to modify? 20:33
I'm not surprised at all it only matches 'a'.
diakopter oh 20:34
niecza: say 'abcbabcbabcba' ~~ / a+: % b+: % c /
p6eval niecza v10: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(13) text(abcbabcbabcba) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
masak \o/
diakopter so it's right-associative 20:35
masak :P
niecza: say 'abcbabcbabcba' ~~ / a+: % [b+: % c] / 20:36
p6eval niecza v10: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(13) text(abcbabcbabcba) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
masak niecza: say 'abcbabcbabcba' ~~ / [a+: % b+:] % c /
p6eval niecza v10: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter % (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/eMQkniLhki line 1:␤------> say 'abcbabcbabcba' ~~ / [a+: % b+:] %⏏ c /␤␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/' at /tmp/eMQkniLhki …
masak yeah, the left-associative way doesn't even seem to make sense.
diakopter niecza: say 'abcbabcbabcba' ~~ / [a+: % b]+: % c / 20:37
p6eval niecza v10: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
masak right, but that way of putting the brackets doesn't really make sense :)
dalek d: 3f08f8f | larry++ | STD.pm6:
improve message for listop TTIAR
 20:39
osystem: e141914 | (Timothy Totten)++ | META.list:
Added HTTP::Easy to the ecosystem.
 20:41
soh_cah_toa are IO::Socket::INET and IO::Socket really not installed by default or is something just wrong w/ my installation? 20:44
supernovus I am using them both right now, nom updated as of 2 hours ago. 20:45
soh_cah_toa weird. i have 2011.07
jnthn IO::Socket::INET iscore in b and nom. 20:46
*is core
e.g. in CORE
supernovus all my stuff that uses IO::Socket::INET was tested under 2011.07 prior to updating to nom, and was working fine there.
soh_cah_toa ugh
i'll just reinstall i guess
alright, so what do i gotta do again to install nqp? i need to install parrot from the kill-useless-defaults branch? 20:51
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supernovus Oh, and I can confirm the issues I was having with IO::Socket::INET not auto-flushing are gone as of this week. Both the SCGI and HTTP::Easy libraries are working perfectly under nom as of today at least. Being able to load a dynamic web page generated live by Perl 6, and have it respond in less than a second is awesome. 20:52
soh_cah_toa or install nqp from the kill-useless-defaults branch?
benabik I don't have IO::Socket::INET either. Hm.
jnthn benabik: Don't have?
benabik installed.
jnthn nom: IO::Socket::INET
p6eval nom 16cb2b: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol 'IO::Socket::&INET'␤ in <anon> at /tmp/Ojm4u7YtWD:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/Ojm4u7YtWD:1␤␤» 20:53
jnthn er
masak jnthn: safe mode.
jnthn Oh
:)
supernovus p6eval is SAFE setting, no sockets
jnthn benabik: You won't have.
benabik: It's in CORE.setting, not installed separately
benabik Oh.
jnthn benabik: Just like Array isn't installed. :)
benabik Oh.
supernovus If you compiled rakudo from source, it's in the "src/core/IO/Socket/" folder. 20:54
benabik soh_cah_toa: ^^ Are you using "use IO::Socket::INET" or just trying to use IO::Socket::INET directly?
soh_cah_toa benabik: 'use IO::Socket::INET' 20:55
supernovus there is no need to "use IO::Socket::INET" since it is a CORE library. See the SCGI or HTTP::Easy libraries on modules.perl6.org for examples.
jnthn It's not even a library. It's just a class in the setting. 20:56
soh_cah_toa what does that mean? it's in CORE or setting
i always see people talk about setting but don't actually know what it is 20:57
supernovus What jnthn said, my terminology may be a bit out.
jnthn soh_cah_toa: The setting is the outer lexical scope your program is running in.
supernovus CORE is a setting.
jnthn CORE is the name of the default one of those.
It's where the built-ins (operators, functions, classes) come from.
benabik soh_cah_toa: Standard library, of sorts. All the functions and classes and… what jnthn just said.
soh_cah_toa yeah, "standard library" would be a better word ;) 20:58
jnthn Well, but the idea of it being the outer lexical scope is important at times.
soh_cah_toa when i hear "setting" i think of "preferences" or "options"
jnthn soh_cah_toa: That's not accidental. :) 20:59
supernovus In Perl 6 it can do a lot more than a "standard library" though. It really does define what language features are available. See the SAFE setting in nom for instance, as an example of an alternative setting.
jnthn soh_cah_toa: p6eval is started with --setting=SAFE
benabik soh_cah_toa: I think it's because the default setting is only just that, the default. Crazy people can define their own builtins.
jnthn soh_cah_toa: Which provides a different set of preferences (e.g. no sockets) :)
soh_cah_toa interesting
masak soh_cah_toa: strangelyconsistent.org/blog/dash-n...part-three
should be relevant to this discussion. 21:00
soh_cah_toa ok
so that means i could also call it OUTER::IO::Socket::INET, correct? 21:01
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jnthn Yes, if Rakudo implemented OUTER:: :) 21:02
benabik jnthn: You and your pesky details.
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supernovus So, what's the status of the "Method 'rxtype' not found for invocant of class 'PAST;Regex'" issue? (which I believe is related to variable interpolation in regexes.) 21:02
jnthn supernovus: Things are moving a little slowly there; pmichaud++ has a bit of a tuit shortage at the moment. 21:03
masak guten nacht, #. 21:07
tadzik g'night
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masak tadzik: good night and good morning ;) 21:08
21:08 masak left
tadzik (: 21:08
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supernovus jnthn: Ah, okay. Once it's fixed, my Exemel library should be working under nom. I can't wait to see how much faster Exemel is under nom. :-) 21:10
PerlJam supernovus: what makes you think it's going to be faster? :) 21:11
jnthn Well, given it depends on grammars, and the new grammar engine is meant to be faster, there's a decent chance. :) 21:13
PerlJam I'm a "don't count your chickens" kind of person. 21:14
supernovus PerlJam: Everything so far has been greatly faster! Serving web pages through SCGI is at least twice as fast now, so I'm hoping XML parsing and operations will benefit in nom too :-) 21:15
jnthn I don't own any chickens. It's kinda inconvenient in an appartment.
PerlJam jnthn: does that mean you don't count your no chickens?
jnthn PerlJam: What no chickens? :P 21:16
supernovus anyway, bbiab
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PerlJam jnthn: actually, I bet you have some liquid chickens in your refrigerator. 21:16
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jnthn PerlJam: Don't think I do at the moment actually... :) 21:18
japhb_: About?
japhb_ Am now
Have not backlogged, what's up?
jnthn japhb_: Just spectesting and about to push a patch to make candidates_matching work as you want for only subs as well as multis. 21:19
japhb_ ooh, thanks!
jnthn Was that your main "blocker"?
japhb_ jnthn++
jnthn Or anything else I should look at while I have a moment?
soh_cah_toa my $socket = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<google.com>);
getaddrinfo failed: http: Success
in 'IO::Socket::INET::BUILD' at line 6127:src/gen/core.pm
in 'IO::Socket::INET::new' at line 6105:src/gen/core.pm
what the heck? it seems that it doesn't matter what hostname i specify 21:20
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jnthn soh_cah_toa: try just google.com 21:20
Not the protocol specifier
soh_cah_toa oh jeez...
japhb_ Actually the biggest blocker ... I'm not sure if it's Rakudo or me. Basically I haven't figured out how to parse a string using a rule from the Perl6 Grammar. nom seems not to like :: inside subrule names ...
soh_cah_toa bangs his head on keyboard
wow 21:21
yeah, that was obvious
benabik soh_cah_toa: It's always the easy stuff you miss.
soh_cah_toa oh yeah. definitely
jnthn japhb_: Ah...yeah, that's trickier.
japhb_ jnthn, and closer to your neck of the woods: being able to see Parameter.constraints was #1.5 . :-)
jnthn oh, that one I can look at. 21:23
japhb_ Yay!
dalek kudo/nom: 570bc95 | jnthn++ | src/core/Routine.pm:
Make Routine.candidates_matching work on only routines as well as multis for japhb++.
japhb_ That would make it a lot easier to implement val(), and handle all the variant ways that the spec wants you to be able to specify options ...
diakopter std: my @a; say #$a
p6eval std 3f08f8f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/ZMs3zwoZTi line 1:␤------> my @a; say⏏ #$a␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
japhb_ jnthn, I meant that in regards to the parsing. 21:24
jnthn, the constraints thing seems necessary when specifying git-like commands where the constraint really is just a required parameter
multi MAIN ('commit', ...) {} 21:25
that sort of thing
jnthn ah, ok
diakopter hum, a better error message for #$a might be helpful 21:26
on second thought, no 21:27
benabik diakopter: #$a is a comment. It gets tossed very early.
japhb_ The original usage-message-gen code did this odd thing where if a param did not have a name, it tried to stringify the constraint instead, and I was mystified by this choice of fallback until I had the "a-ha!" moment regarding sub-command style CLI tools.
jlaire std: my @a; say $#a
p6eval std 3f08f8f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of $#a variable; in Perl 6 please use @a.end at /tmp/FbcmocQ5RT line 1:␤------> my @a; say $#a⏏<EOL>␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
diakopter oh oops
japhb_ jnthn, BTW, here's an example of the current WIP output of the usage generator: gist.github.com/1243461 21:30
jnthn oh, nice!
diakopter benabik: I was aware that was a comment.
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benabik diakopter: Examining comments for possible code seems poor to me. 21:31
diakopter yes, I'd poorly remembered the order of $# 21:32
benabik … $#? :-P
diakopter yes, as jlaire pointed out above.
benabik Never seen it before, it doesn't look nice. 21:33
flussence I broke something again... gist.github.com/1243472
diakopter and to which I reponded "oh oops"
jlaire hey, $#x is a whole character shorter than @x-1 ;) 21:35
jnthn > sub foo("pivo") { }; say &foo.signature.params[0].constraints.perl 21:36
("pivo",)
japhb_: ^^
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jnthn Spectesting. 21:36
japhb_ jnthn, oooh, nice 21:37
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dalek kudo/nom: 870306b | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
Don't create a thunk that does a smart match for literal value constraints; the binder simply calls .ACCEPTS anyway, so we can just use the literal. Faster, and introspects better.
 21:41
kudo/nom: 3e8911a | jnthn++ | src/core/Parameter.pm:
Implement Parameter.constraints; fix NPMCA in Parameter.named_names.
jnthn grabs himself an oak-aged beer and hacks on optimizer branch a little more before bed 21:47
tadzik \o/ 21:48
dalek d: ad1e550 | larry++ | CORE.setting:
remove some specrot from CORE.setting
 21:51
jnthn TimToady: my class Multi { } 21:52
TimToady: This one makes no sense under the current multi model.
sorear good * #perl6
jnthn TimToady: A proto is just a Routine of some kind.
o/ sorear
sorear I'm a little suprised google didn't get a better literal translation for 'Me llamo Coke' 21:53
it's a completely regular use of the object pronoun, should be 'I call me Coke', not 'I call it Coke' 21:54
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sorear phenny: es en "llamome 'coke'"? 21:54
phenny sorear: "called me 'coke'" (es to en, translate.google.com)
sorear phenny: es en "llámome 'coke'"?
phenny sorear: "called me 'coke'" (es to en, translate.google.com)
sorear that's the other object form, I see it works a *little* better 21:55
jnthn phenny: es en "me llamo Pedro"?
phenny jnthn: "My name is Peter" (es to en, translate.google.com)
sorear but llamome isn't the idiomatic way
jnthn sorear: I'm wondering if it's seeing "coke" and thinking of the drink :)
sorear: Some weird statistical misfortune.
dalek d: 62fce78 | larry++ | STD.pm6:
wrongly warns on x ** {3} and such
 21:56
jnthn sorear: A while back, asking Google translate to sk en "v peknej Bratislave" produced "in beautiful Prague" (it changed the city name while translating!) 21:57
dalek d: 2da0153 | larry++ | CORE.setting:
rm Multi fossil from CORE
 21:58
sorear jnthn: good to know my linguistic skills won't become obsolete *quite* yet
(living on the border helps me Spanish not rust)
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jnthn Yeah, living somewhere helps a lot. 21:59
Or in an area where the language is spoken.
I'm really looking forward to going to Slovakia for Twin City Perl Workshop in November...can try and de-rust my Slovak a tiny bit.
TimToady sorear: what needs to happen to the STD bootstrap to transition from ** to %? 22:00
sorear TimToady: I think there's a make boot or make reboot rule that will copy the newly-built STD to boot/, then you can commit that and start using it 22:01
jnthn: how's your Swedish? 22:02
TimToady well, but STD uses ** badly :)
jnthn sorear: Pretty bad. :(
dalek kudo/optimizer: d34c4e3 | jnthn++ | src/pmc/mdthunk.pmc:
Set flag to make sure that inlined protos don't end up with us re-running type checks.
jnthn sorear: Mostly due to lack of effort/motivation
sorear: I know enough to survive the typical trip to the supermarket/pizzeria/restaurant/bar.
sorear checks for interesting p6 tweets, remembers ey needs to get Japanese better
jnthn sorear: I find myself increasingly able to parse/read it, but my speaking/writing/listening skills lag far behind. 22:03
phenny: tell moritz nice cleanup job on the tests optimizer disliked :)
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
jnthn phenny: tell moritz S04-exception-handlers/catch.t seems to legitimately fail CHECK still. 22:04
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
TimToady wow, my linux kernel crashed--been a while since that happened 22:08
it's probably jealous of my new android phone...
diakopter what crashed it 22:09
TimToady well, I was running viv STD.pm6 at the time... :)
and also a snaptest
diakopter #perl6. we will break your linux. 22:10
jnthn
.oO( perl6 never crashed my OS... )
 22:15
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dalek d: 8b331d2 | larry++ | STD.pm6:
missing space char
 22:27
Woodi rakudo: class A { our %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; for %a.keys -> $n { say $n } }; my $a = A.new; 22:37
p6eval rakudo 3e8911: OUTPUT«Method 'STORE' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in <anon> at /tmp/MZY0dGvQvt:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/MZY0dGvQvt:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/MZY0dGvQvt:1␤␤»
Woodi with list in .keys place it work... how early our varibles are build ? 22:39
works on Star, no error
jnthn That looks like it should work.
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jnthn nom: our %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; for %a.keys -> $n { say $n } 22:40
p6eval nom 3e8911: OUTPUT«Method 'STORE' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in <anon> at /tmp/axHNVa5F4B:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/axHNVa5F4B:1␤␤»
jnthn OK, the class is nothing to do with it.
nom: my %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; for %a.keys -> $n { say $n }
p6eval nom 3e8911: OUTPUT«a␤b␤»
TimToady our vars are supposed to be initialized at INIT time
Woodi maybe our should be in package/module space ?
jnthn No, it should be fine in mainline too; that's implicitly GLOBAL package.
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Woodi mainline means 'in class' ? :) 22:41
TimToady nom: state %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; for %a.keys -> $n { say $n }
p6eval nom 3e8911: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
TimToady coo!
Woodi btw. i would like to make that our const - do const work in nom ? 22:42
TimToady nom: constant %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; for %a.keys -> $n { say $n }
p6eval nom 3e8911: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot handle constant %a with non-literal value yet at line 1, near "= { 'a' =>"␤»
TimToady niecza: constant %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; for %a.keys -> $n { say $n }
p6eval niecza v10: OUTPUT«a␤b␤» 22:43
TimToady niecza: constant %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; BEGIN { for %a.keys -> $n { say $n } }
p6eval niecza v10: OUTPUT«a␤b␤»
TimToady niecza++ !
jnthn TimToady: er 22:44
TimToady: That isn't actually BEGIN time though.
TimToady: Stick a syntax error after it.
Woodi b: constant %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; BEGIN { for %a.keys -> $n { say $n } }
TimToady niecza: constant %a = { 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2 }; BEGIN { for %a.keys -> $n { say $n } }; 1 2
p6eval niecza v10: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/OHkws9EsbG line 1:␤------> GIN { for %a.keys -> $n { say $n } }; 1 ⏏2␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Constant type declarator not yet implemented at line 22, near "= { 'a' =>"␤»
jnthn TimToady: I could kinda cheat on the constant stuff but I'd rather spend the time implementing serialization properly than doing throwaway cheats... 22:45
TimToady +1
jnthn Having too much -Ofun in optimizer land at the moment though :)
TimToady niecza-- # take it back :) 22:46
supernovus Any known workarounds for the RegEx variable interpolation? I tried the very hackish eval method from pre-alpha but it doesn't work in nom... 22:51
TimToady pugs: sub foobar(NoneSuch $str) { say "$str is defined" }; foobar('qux')
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«qux is defined␤»
TimToady sorear: ^^ 22:52
sorear TimToady: I think you wanted audreyt
TimToady it ignores types on non-multis, I think
sorear supernovus: could you elaborate on the issue?
TimToady you were the one wondering about irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-09-25#i_4479168
sorear ah 22:53
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supernovus if you have a variable $word with a string "hello" and do a: if $somestring ~~ / ^ $word ':' / { say "somestring starts with hello." } it currently breaks because variables don't interpolate into regexes at the moment. In pre-alpha you could do: eval("/^$word ':'/"); and it would return a compiled regex. 22:55
that was meant for sorear by the way...
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sorear supernovus: pre-alpha? seriously? 22:56
pre-alpha ended in, like, 2006
supernovus sorear: okay, better phrased, prior to variable interpolation in the alpha branch. 22:57
sorear supernovus: if this was an alpha issue why are you bringing it up now
are you confusing alpha with nom?
supernovus sorear: No. The variable interpolation issue in nom is completely separate from the one in alpha. I tried using the workaround that was used in alpha, but it doesn't work in nom. 22:58
sorear perl6: my $somestring = 'hello: world'; my $word = 'hello'; if $somestring ~~ / ^ $word ':' / {say "somestring starts with hello." } 22:59
p6eval rakudo 3e8911: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'rxtype' not found for invocant of class 'PAST;Regex'␤»
..niecza v10: OUTPUT«somestring starts with hello.␤» 23:00
..pugs: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤ unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.16/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤ eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HANDLE>' trapped b…
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supernovus sorear: The evil rxtype error, thus what I am working around. 23:01
TimToady sorear: re irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-09-25#i_4479703, that's one of those "just like Perl 5" things :)
sorear oops, I meant to fix that before the release 23:02
TimToady eval "aaabc" ~~ / a++ abc /
buubot_backup TimToady: No output.
TimToady eval print "aaabc" ~~ / (a++) abc / 23:03
buubot_backup TimToady: 1
TimToady eval print "aaabc" ~~ / (a+) abc /
buubot_backup TimToady: 1
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TimToady eval "aaabc" ~~ / (a+) abc /; print $1 23:04
buubot_backup TimToady: 1
TimToady eval "aaabc" ~~ / (a+) abc /; $1
buubot_backup TimToady: No output.
TimToady bleah
eval "aaabc" =~ / (a+) abc /; $1
buubot_backup TimToady: No output.
TimToady eval "aaabc" =~ / (a+) abc /; print $1
buubot_backup TimToady: 1
TimToady this is not your father's perl... 23:05
eval "aaabc" =~ / (a+) abc /x; print $1
buubot_backup TimToady: aa1
TimToady eval "aaabc" =~ / (a++) abc /x; print $1
buubot_backup TimToady: 1
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TimToady has forgotten nearly all of his P5, it would seem, except for that ++ 23:06
which, oddly, was added after I started working on P6 instead...go figure... 23:07
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dalek ecza: 02435c5 | sorear++ | src/NieczaActions.pm6:
+ as a quantmod is a synonym of :
 23:08
kudo/optimizer: f910191 | jnthn++ | / (3 files):
Infrastructure to support calling a multi candidate determined at compile time, and not repeating arg type checks.
kudo/optimizer: 031a827 | jnthn++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
Write barriers.
kudo/optimizer: f9d86d1 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
First cut of just calling straight to a multi candidate picked at compile, and skipping any bind-time type checks (since we know they aren't needed). Note that it finds barely anything at compile time yet, probably since we hardly have any type information in the tree.
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ingy hi 23:17
TimToady yodood
ingy does <a> % <b> mean anything TimToady ? 23:18
sorear hi
TimToady no
ingy hmms
TimToady std: <a> % <b>
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
TimToady er
ingy twas afraid of that
TimToady std: /<a> % <b>/
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter % (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/B3oK8beB7g line 1:␤------> /<a> %⏏ <b>/␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/' at /tmp/B3oK8beB7g line 1:␤------> /<a> %…
TimToady std: /<a>+ % <b>/
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
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TimToady std: /<a> ** 1 % <b>/ 23:19
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady if anything, it would mean that
ingy right
TimToady which does make much use of the separator :)
ingy doesn't? 23:20
TimToady yes, my n't key is busted today
ingy you fixed it
my jury's still out on this 23:21
is <a>+ % <b> roughly <a> +% <b> ? 23:22
sans sigspace issues 23:23
TimToady depends on what you mean by that
but p5 doesn't care where you put the space
std: / x + % y / 23:24
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady std: / x **5% y /
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady er, s/p5/p6/
but note 23:26
sorear std: /x**y/
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of atom ** y as separator; nowadays please use atom+ % y at /tmp/ZkobbqiwOB line 1:␤------> /x**y⏏/␤ok 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady std: / x%y /
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable %y is not predeclared at /tmp/8zJw9UpGIB line 1:␤------> / x⏏%y /␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
TimToady std: / x+%y /
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady that one motivation for keeping the + required
but also, if people get used to seeing x % y, they'll think they can say x* % y to mean [x*]+ % y 23:28
and that would be bad
std: / x+ %% y / 23:29
p6eval std 8b331d2: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
dalek p: b9715f1 | jnthn++ | src/PAST/SixModelPASTExtensions.pir:
Enable us to set :type(...) on any PAST node, not just PAST::Var.
ingy let me write something up
brb 23:30
dalek kudo/optimizer: ad5f98c | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
Flag various literals as being able to dispatch as native types (which calls back to their boxed forms); spots a few more things. S06-multi/lexical-multis.t falls victim to a 'could never work' detected at compile time.
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jnthn sleep 23:38
&
23:43 jeffreykegler left
dalek ast: 384c821 | larry++ | S05-modifier/ (2 files):
:a and :aa changed to :m and :mm long ago
 23:48
ingy TimToady: gist.github.com/1243786 23:53
dalek ast: 4ba1a2f | larry++ | S05-modifier/ (4 files):
s/accent/mark/ in filenames too
23:53 Chillance left
ingy TimToady: let me know if that makes sense 23:53
supernovus seems like rules have changed how they handle space in nom... 23:54

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