»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
dalek odel: 2518ca6 | diakopter++ | lua/runtime/List.lua:
array tests pass
 00:12
sorear colomon: You've convinced me not to do anything for now. :) 00:16
colomon drat! 00:17
;)
though like I said, it certainly seems "good enough" already.
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dalek ecza: 54cf51a | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
Eliminate now-unused BValue type
 01:12
ecza: 750c097 | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
Encapsulate setting of .v on existing StashEnts
[Coke] \o/ # rt.perl.org/rt3 has a browser-friendly cert now. 01:30
sorear sweeet 01:32
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dalek kudo/nom: 9c28800 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/core/Str.pm:
Str.Numeric: Support Rats and Nums that start with a period (e.g. '.5')
 01:40
sorear is that japhb?
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japhb_ sorear, yes. :-) 01:41
decommuting & 01:42
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sorear niecza: 5 * constant $x = 2; 01:53
p6eval niecza v11-14-g750c097: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $x is declared but not used at /tmp/7uUQaWvm87 line 1:␤------> 5 * ⏏constant $x = 2;␤␤␤Unhandled Exception: assigning to readonly value␤ at /tmp/7uUQaWvm87 line 0 (mainline @ 0) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CO…
dalek ecza: 1491987 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
Decouple constant initialization from the ability to rebind constants
 01:54
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dalek ecza: eb2bc3c | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
Implement a concept of constant common variables (half of #46)
 02:30
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jlaire .u  02:43
phenny U+F8C7 (No name found)
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diakopter .u money 02:52
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'money'.
dalek ecza: ccb1914 | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
Remove capability of rebinding lexical constants (fixes #46)
 02:56
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sorear niecza: $@ + 5 02:57
p6eval niecza v11-15-g1491987: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Unsupported use of $@ variable as eval error; in Perl 6 please use $! at /tmp/UJXlfbXx7T line 1:␤------> $@⏏ + 5␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
sorear niecza: $@
p6eval niecza v11-15-g1491987: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/ARW1f8iSxQ line 1:␤------> <BOL>⏏$@␤␤Use of uninitialized value in string context␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 773 (warn @ 2) ␤ at …
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dalek ecza: 191508a | sorear++ | src/STD.pm6:
Checking for $@ and $^X should use <!before \w> instead of <?before \W> so it works at string end (fixes #63)
 03:14
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sorear perl6: say "23foo".subst(/\w/, {$/.uc}) 03:29
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«Method 'uc' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/MESSOCm_Ey:1␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3989␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3896␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3896␤ in method gimme at src/gen/CORE.s…
..niecza v11-18-g191508a: OUTPUT«23foo␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤ unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.20111008/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤ eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HAND…
sorear perl6: say "+!foo".subst(/\w/, {$/.uc})
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«Method 'uc' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/PtCAKvnnDj:1␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3989␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3896␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:3896␤ in method gimme at src/gen/CORE.s… 03:30
..niecza v11-18-g191508a: OUTPUT«+!Foo␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤ unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.20111008/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤ eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HAND…
sorear straw poll: is rakudo doing it wrong?
dalek ecza: 2c52e86 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
Autothunkify left side of xx (fixes #70)
 03:32
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sorear diakopter: could you take a look at github.com/sorear/niecza/issues/61 and github.com/sorear/niecza/issues/59 and tell me if both are still valid? 03:39
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diakopter interestingly, /61 now fails with the same error as /59 03:42
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dalek ecza: b962c2f | sorear++ | t/run_spectests:
Auto-checkout/update t/spec during make spectest (fixes #54)
 03:44
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diakopter sorear: I commented on /61 03:45
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sorear aargh 03:45
diakopter arg 03:46
h
I hope it comes back
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dalek <sorear> Your comment on #61 implies that niecza on Win32 now cannot be loaded _at all_. 03:48
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diakopter__ sorear: I think that may be the case 03:51
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diakopter__ oh noes; host04 went down too 03:53
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sorear diakopter___: here? 04:14
diakopter___ yes
sorear I'm going to have a zip for you to test in a few minutes 04:15
diakopter___ my niecza/cygwin installation is on another computer (where diakopter__ is logged in)
sorear replacing the particular .Invoke calls I was using with different ones closer to what MSDN says
seems that MethodBase::Invoke(object, object[]) cannot be used to *allocate* a new object on .net 04:17
in Mono, constructor.Invoke(null, args) will allocate a new object
now trying it with constructor.Invoke(args) like the MSDN code samples had 04:18
btw, do you use screen with irssi, diakopter___?
diakopter___ yeah, I did on host02
hopefully host02 comes back in a few hours or less
sorear I blame screen for the horrible display glitches I've been seeing, thinking I'll use this opportunity to replace it
tmux or dtach or something 04:19
diakopter___ my screen/irssi seems to work okay through PuTTY 04:20
if there's ever a glitch, just resizing the window fixes it
ok I got niecza/cygwin set up here too
feel free to email the .zip 04:21
RUN_CLR= 04:23
CSC=csc
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diakopter___ o_O 04:32
sorear I guess host04 is back up
yep
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diakopter___ it didn't reboot? 04:32
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diakopter___ std: 1 04:37
p6eval std be1f10e: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
sorear odd that host04 didn't reboot
rakudo: pir::spawn__is("uptime")
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤Use of uninitialized value in string context␤===SORRY!===␤error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected IREG, expecting '(' ('$I100')␤ in file '(file unknown)' line 12042681␤␤»
sorear rakudo: pir::spawn__IS("uptime")
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤Use of uninitialized value in string context␤===SORRY!===␤error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected IREG, expecting '(' ('$I100')␤ in file '(file unknown)' line 12220154␤␤» 04:38
sorear rakudo: pir::spawn__vS("uptime")
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤Use of uninitialized value in string context␤===SORRY!===␤error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected SREG, expecting '(' ('$S100')␤ in file '(file unknown)' line 138␤␤»
sorear rakudo: pir::spawnw__IS("uptime")
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT« 04:00:43 up 399 days, 9:52, 0 users, load average: 0.10, 0.04, 0.01␤»
diakopter___ I and another tried all kinds of failed debian upgrades on host02; I hope it reboots successfully. 04:40
sorear: you'll email me a .zip? 04:41
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sorear diakopter___: yeah if it works this time 04:44
diakopter___ once I get the zip, how would I use it
just unzip it into boot/ in the build dir?
sorear yes, deleting what's there first 04:49
see if it runs at all (boot/run/Niecza.exe --help)
sent 04:51
diakopter___ gmail probably blocked the email b/c it had a .zip; rename the file to .piz and it should work 04:54
japhb How do you get STD to spit out a parse tree, rather than just ok or FAILED? 04:55
diakopter___ ./viv has some options
yaml output is one 04:56
sorear diakopter___: wtf
japhb diakopter__: thank you 04:57
I was stupidly looking in tools/, since that's where the README seems to point
sorear diakopter___: both that the email was blocked, and that google isn't using file(1) or equivalent
diakopter___ yeah :)
sorear tools/ is for supplementary tools
the real important stuff is in .
like the README itself 04:58
diakopter___: done
diakopter___ sorear: got the piz
japhb methinks the README could use some love; I'm not (yet) qualified to do that. 04:59
sorear japhb: your English isn't that bad. 05:00
I actually thought you were native.
japhb laughs
diakopter___ boot/run/Niecza.exe --help worked 05:01
japhb I am native. I meant that I was not qualified in the sense of "I don't know the correct use and current state of all of the pieces, so I can't make the README fully correct."
japhb now wonders if sorear, despite his location *isn't* a native speaker, based on some variant of the "He who looks behind the door has stood there before" principle. 05:02
sorear sort of. English is my native language but I'm 2.5-lingual 05:06
diakopter___ what other languages? 05:07
sorear es, jp
ja
diakopter___ how might I use your piz instead of the one downloaded by the Makefile
sorear I wonder if putting a file:// URL in FETCH_URL would work 05:08
if not, follow the steps given in the .fetch-stamp: makefile rule 05:09
making sure to touch at the end
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sorear o/ diakopter 05:10
diakopter whew 05:11
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diakopter nqplua passes a bunch of tests 05:11
sorear mail.google.com/support/bin/answer....nswer=6590
"Gmail does not allow you to send or receive files that are corrupted." 05:12
diakopter heh
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sorear diakopter: any luck w/ niecza? 05:14
diakopter well after the Makefile deleted boot/ a couple of times 05:15
sorear: odd 05:19
Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at C:\Users\mwilson\src\niecza\src\CClass.pm6 line 15: 05:22
sorear you need to touch .fetch-stamp if you don't want the makefile to delete boot/ 05:24
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diakopter sorear: I got the above error 05:26
when running cd src && NIECZA_KEEP_IL=1 ../boot/run/Niecza.exe -C CClass
sorear diakopter: I can repro that here - the parser doesn't like \r\n much 05:27
diakopter: you could try changing *.pm6 *.setting to Unix line endings, or you can wait for me to fix the compiler
rakudo: say "\r\n" ~~ /\n// 05:29
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 1, near "say \"\\r\\n\""␤»
sorear rakudo: say "\r\n" ~~ /\n/
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«=> <
sorear What?
rakudo: say ("\r\n" ~~ /\n/).gist.perl 05:30
diakopter :O)
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«"=> <\r\n>\n"␤»
sorear rakudo: say ("AB" ~~ /B/).gist.perl
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«"=> <B>\n"␤»
sorear hrm. ok.
I guess \n in Rakudo can match \cM\cJ 05:31
rakudo: say ("\r\n" ~~ /<[\n]>/).gist.perl
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«"#<failed match>"␤»
sorear I wonder what <[\n]> should do, or if it should be outlawed
if I'm going to make \n match potentially more than one character 05:32
diakopter what does p5 do
sorear stefan@stefans:~$ perl -E '"\015\012" =~ /\n/; say length($&), " ", length($`)' 05:42
1 1
\n matches \012 only
diakopter maybe it behaves differently on windows
nope; same 05:43
sorear p5, like C, does line ending mangling on I/O
I wonder if niecza should do the same
sorear checks UTS18 05:45
hrm, www.unicode.org/reports/tr18/#Partial_Matches and the succeeding section are problematic for Perl 6 regexes 05:50
diakopter so pie-in-the-sky 05:52
sorear I don't see anything in tr18 about \n 05:53
hmm, seems STD has a deeper assumption on \n separating lines 05:56
diakopter Perl 6 source code exists on Windows too 05:59
(or does it?)
sorear phenny: tell TimToady I would like to extract knowledge from you on how Perl 6 should treat \n and text-mode file IO on Windows 06:00
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
sorear diakopter: apparently it does, or what is CClass.pm6?
:)
diakopter alternatively, I could switch my git to not translate line endings 06:04
sorear diakopter: that would be a good idea, since I'm unlikely to get \n sorted with TimToady tonight 06:08
Woodi me wa 06:10
Woodi was readin www2.parc.com/csl/groups/sda/projec.../main.html yesterday
sorear submitted #78
Woodi need coffe or Mg probably...
any aspects of Aspect-oriented programming in Perl6 ? 06:11
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sorear Magnesium? 06:16
sorear imagines Woodi munching on a NeXT cube
interesting link, Woodi 06:22
Woodi: &wrap is supposedly like AOP
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Woodi realy not dig yet into AOP, just read somewhere mr. G.Kiczales (CLOS, OI) moved to AOP 06:31
an maybe I started to like grammars in Perl6 as somethink MOP/OI thing :) 06:32
sorear diakopter: without line ending mangling, how far does it get? 06:46
diakopter I'll try it 06:51
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diakopter warning CS1668: Invalid search path '/usr/local/lib:/usr/lib:/lib' specified in 'LIB environment variable' -- 'The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect. ' 06:58
error CS0006: Metadata file 'Run.Kernel' could not be found 06:59
make: *** [boot/obj/Run.CompilerBlob.dll] Error 1
moritz nom: say $*VERSION 07:02
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«Failure.new()␤» 07:03
moritz nom: say $*PERL
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«Failure.new()␤»
moritz nom: say $*VM
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«("name" => "parrot", "config" => {"git_describe" => "RELEASE_3_9_0-222-g305b704", "sha1" => "305b704a6b79f86ce0919bc258be6e9844739218", "a" => ".a", "ar" => "ar", "ar_extra" => "", "ar_out" => "", "archname" => "x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi", "arflags" => "cr", "as" …
moritz b: say $*VM<config><git_describe>
p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«RELEASE_3_6_0␤»
moritz nom: say $*VM<config><git_describe>
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«RELEASE_3_9_0-222-g305b704␤»
sorear diakopter: that doesn't sound like a niecza problem to me :) 07:05
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mberends good * 07:13
phenny mberends: 28 Oct 05:03Z <sorear> tell mberends /serialize is merged
mberends ooh! sorear!
mberends merges locally 07:14
sorear mberends! how are you! 07:15
mberends? 07:17
mberends hi sorear, I'm mentally rested after about 2 weeks offline. There's no way I'm going to catch up reading IRC backlogs, but it looks like lots has been happening again :)
I've just been picking away a little more at 6model/C 07:18
sorear heh
sorear is picking at the niecza bug queue
mberends sorear: it looks like your serialize branch ended well :) 07:19
sorear I'd like to get it building again on Win32 but there's a lot of back and forthing involved
seems diakopter++ has an environment variable issue now
yeah, merged serialize, very few spectest regressions 07:20
niecza: BEGIN { say "Hello, world"; }; 1 1 07:21
p6eval niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«Hello, world␤===SORRY!===␤␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/Evq_iY3Rm4 line 1:␤------> BEGIN { say "Hello, world"; }; 1 ⏏1␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
sorear look :)
mberends yes!
I'll have the use of some Win32 hosts from about Wednesday, for testing if it helps
sorear couldn't hurt, hopefully by Wed TimToady will be back online 07:22
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sorear mberends: what is the implementation level of 6model/c? 07:24
mberends: what if I were, hypothetically, to steer 6model/c in a direction where it could be used as a niecza backend? 07:25
I'll need a 6model-aware garbage collector and 6model object implementation for my niecza/c ideas 07:26
mberends sorear: there is too little of it completed so far use it right now, and I'm very slow at progressing it. The thought of it serving as a backend had not occurred to me, but I'll bear it in mind while I work on it. 07:27
sorear is also pondering now how roles and ClassHOW will look 07:28
(in niecza/clr)
mberends: well, welcome back to #perl6, but I need to sleep now 07:29
bye
mberends good night
Woodi mberends: what exactly you would like to do with 6model/C ? 07:33
mberends Woodi: I'd like to implement the 6model core in C with no external dependencies. 07:34
Woodi <exclude parrot.h> > 07:35
?
so PMC implementation probably
mberends Woodi: yes. one of the main reasons for doing that is to more easily understand how 6model works 07:36
Woodi just was thinking about this too...
'representations' sugests native mapings and 'model' kind of MOP ? 07:37
mberends that's right
Woodi some other functionality is there maybe ? 07:38
mberends method dispatch
Woodi any idea how to plug connect eg. Boehem GC ? 07:41
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mberends Woodi: you would have to make a "plug connect" system yourself. That is non trivial, I think. 07:42
Woodi mberends: I hear some good about jemalloc and realy think how to plug in many other external components :) but for example Bohem GC and jemalloc exclude on each other :) 07:44
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mberends Woodi: jemalloc is new to me, I'll find its docs and see how it compares. For 6model/C I would prefer a separate implementation of a recognized algorithm, in order to avoid adding an external dependency. I'm not in favour of Boehm because of its fundamental design, which is for "non-cooperative" environments, because it makes much more sense for new software to be written to cooperate. 08:09
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Woodi mberends: Boehm GC is about portability so I like it. And it have atomic_ops library included which is nice for portability too. But Perl6 probably can wait for C++0x/C 0x memory model implementation :) 08:30
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mberends Woodi: yes, its portability is good, and several VM designs used it before choosing something else for performance reasons. Efficient memory management seems to remain an enduring problem problem or challenge. 08:38
the trick is for each application to find the memory manager with the least drawbacks for a given situation :) 08:40
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moritz \o mberends 09:12
mberends o/ moritz :-D 09:15
tadzik hello o/
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not_gerd hello, #perl6 09:55
NQP .gitignore fix for MSYS
^ gist.github.com/1341331
one way to make --gen-parrot --gen-nqp work on MSYS: gist.github.com/1340539 09:56
Woodi heh, looks nice and quick :) 09:57
moritz where does that need to go?
not_gerd Makefile.in 09:58
is there a standard way to handle platform-specific code?
didn't really investigate, just threw something together that seems to work...
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not_gerd (Makefile.in for both Rakudo and NQP, that is...) 09:59
dalek p/bigint: 45d5eed | moritz++ | .gitignore:
fix .gitignore for msys, not_gerd++
moritz not_gerd: I'd like to have jnthn++ test that first on msvc before applying that 10:00
not_gerd moritz: should that have gone to /biging?
^bigint
ls 10:01
moritz not_gerd: not really :/ 10:04
not_gerd on non-MSYS Windows, Configure.pl just copies libparrot.dll into the Rakudo and NQP build directories
perhaps I should do that for consistency...
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grondilu perl6: sub ∫() {...} # trying to use the unicode Integral character (0x222b) for a sub 10:19
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed block at line 1, near "\u222b() {...} "␤»
..niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Malformed block at /tmp/MaN9zW9by_ line 1:␤------> sub ⏏∫() {...} # trying to use the unicode In␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«decodeUTF8': bad data: '\8747'␤*** ␤ Unexpected "\8747()"␤ expecting "=", subroutine parameters, trait or block␤ at /tmp/akkO5aULpV line 1, column 5␤»
grondilu shouldn't this be working?! 10:20
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grondilu nom: sub ∫() {...} # trying to use the unicode Integral character (0x222b) for a sub 10:26
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed block at line 1, near "\u222b() {...} "␤»
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moritz geekosaur: nope, it's not an alphanumeric character 10:46
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Woodi will work for prefix op ? 10:49
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colomon mberends: ping? 11:59
mberends colomon: pong 12:00
colomon mberends: I'm trying to see if I can use TagLib# from niecza 12:01
but right now I'm getting 12:02
Unhandled Exception: Unable to resolve method Create in class CLR::TagLib::File,taglib-sharp, Version=2::0::4::0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=db62eba44689b5b0
I was hoping you might have some insight as to what I should be doing to track down the problem. I've been trying to use monop without any success at all.
mberends colomon: that looks like a complicated way to say "library not found" :( 12:03
colomon Hmmm.... gacutil doesn't seem to list it?
but it sure looks like it was installed:
Package exported to: /usr/local/lib/mono/taglib-sharp/taglib-sharp.dll -> ../gac/taglib-sharp/2.0.4.0__db62eba44689b5b0/taglib-sharp.dll 12:04
Installed taglib-sharp.dll into the gac (/usr/local/lib/mono/gac)
shoot, I've got to go deal with a singing 3-year-old. but any suggestions you can think of would be very appreciated.
mberends there may be a confusing way in which mono accesses different GACs at different times, I think diakopter had that for a while on a different platform. 12:05
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colomon hmmm... taglib-sharp is installed in /usr/local/lib/mono/gac -- and it's the only thing installed here 12:15
moritz so maybe it's not in the search path?
moritz doesn't know anything about mono, just guesses wildly
colomon looks rightish 12:17
gacutil -l -gacdir /usr/local/
The following assemblies are installed into the GAC:
policy.2.0.taglib-sharp, Version=0.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=db62eba44689b5b0
taglib-sharp, Version=2.0.4.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=db62eba44689b5b0
Number of items = 2
mberends colomon: I'll be afk for a few hours, but will attempt a similar setup later on Debian or Ubuntu 12:20
colomon mberends++
think I might have it now
I'm installing it by hand 12:21
and now I get a different error! 12:22
mberends different error == progress
colomon and that was because my imaginary filename wasn't in a valid tag format. error gone now that I have real MP3 in place to read. \o/ 12:23
moritz \o/
mberends excellent! 12:25
colomon sweet! it works! 12:26
my $file = TagLib-File.Create("Fathers_Jig.mp3");
say $file.Tag.Title;
Father's Jig
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mberends nice one colomon 12:31
colomon now if I can just figure out where the TagLib# documentation lives... 12:32
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colomon hmmm... how to convert a System.String[] to something useful? 13:01
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colomon nom: say @ARGS 13:07
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable @ARGS is not predeclared at line 1, near ""␤»
colomon nom: say @*ARGS 13:08
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«␤»
Woodi just read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6 and some info predates git :) no niecza info and no www.perl6.org link... 13:14
huf it links to perl6.org right there in the little infobox 13:17
13:21 ethndbst left, ethndbst joined
moritz Woodi: feel free to expand and correct as you see fit 13:24
masak hi from TCPW again, #perl6 13:35
szabgab hi masak
masak general poll: will give an '11 years of Perl 6' lightning talk later today -- what should I put the focus on?
szabgab "of" 13:36
masak I've been asking fivers this question and gotten interesting suggestions. maybe you will have some too.
szabgab: :P
szabgab oh I just managed to find the backlog
but the OP for Padre isn't around 13:37
IMHO the biggest impact might be the things that got back to Perl 5 13:38
btw moritz masak do look at the logs of your blogs sometimes? do you check how people find your sites? 13:39
moritz szabgab: planetsix, reddit, other perl blogs, other perl blog aggregators, hacker news, google (roughly in that order) 13:40
szabgab moritz: I mean searches 13:44
what search terms are people using to find your pages
I just noticed people searching for "uniq perl array" or some similar and arriving to my blog entry where I describe the uniq of Perl 6 13:45
that's not what they are looking for and I guess that just confuses them
moritz szabgab: I have similar experience with perl-6.de
huf put a little blurb at the top of the entry that directs them to list::moreutils or summit
moritz I have a little (German) Perl 6 tutorial with separate pages for if, while, arrays, for etc. 13:46
and people search for "perl if", and find it
szabgab that's the reason I jumped ahead in my perl 5 tutorial and wrote the unique entry even before discussing the plain array
so I can put a link from the perl 6 entry to that new page
moritz szabgab: the non-perl 6 parts of my site have much higher search volume than the p6 parts 13:47
for the p6 parts, my highest ranking search referral is "perl6 grammar"
szabgab I am worried only about people who look for perl 5 solution and find by mistake the perl 6 one 13:50
we could point them to the respective perl 5 tutorials 13:51
masak oh my, we still have &roundrobin in S32! I had completely forgotten about it! 13:59
jnthn huh, you talked about it in le pub last night :P
masak yeah, I had forgotten about it up until then, I mean :P 14:00
jnthn oh...was gonna say, the beer was that much :P
masak it was good beer 14:01
not_gerd jnthn: do you know how the command in $config{'win32_libparrot_copy'} set by Rakudo's/NQP's Configure.pl actually gets executed? 14:09
(trying to make --gen-parrot --gen-nqp work on MSYS) 14:10
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Woodi masak: about '11 years': me thinks 'Perl6' concept makes great promises - mantras that all we know - PR was/is realy strong Perl6 side :) Promises: EASY integrating p5 code - just 'use5'! or by grammars or by Perl5-on-Parrot; much better concurency/threading; including other languages via Parro, eg Python; cleaning Perl... 14:15
masak szabgab: I sometimes look at the blog statistics, but I often forget. I should have an alarm to do it at the end of them month, because it clears with each new month.
Woodi but I think Pugs incident is realy important 'turning point' into functional functionalities... i would call it even 'restarting' or Phase 2 or 3... 14:17
masak Woodi: I'd much rather focus on things that happened than on things that didn't -- but yes, the general expectations/promises are important too. :)
Pugs was an inflection point, yes.
Woodi masak: the biggest point for me personally was/is concurency... 14:18
masak from ten thousand feet, the things you can see in the 11-year history are: (1) announcement of Perl 6, (2) Pugs, (3) general silver-age activity, maybe Rakudo Star release if you squint 14:19
I'm not saying Rakudo or Niecza haven't been influential -- they have been, and are.
but in terms of things that have clearly reached out of the echo chamber, those are the three that come to mind.
Woodi from ten thousand you see just distinguishing points in non-discret space 14:21
everyday work matters too
from other angle: you can say things that ARE implemented 14:22
(4) 6model is influent probably 14:23
Woodi is afraid to modify wikipedia article for Perl6 :) 14:24
tadzik don't be 14:26
whatcha wanna change?
Woodi that Perl6 is developed in SVN repo :) 14:27
tadzik ;)
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Woodi masak: 'anything that pass official test suite is Perl6' - there is test suite and STD now, probably stable on all normal languages functionalities :) 14:32
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masak yeah, STD is generally considered "part of spec". 14:46
TimToady is slightly ahead of the curve though and sometimes mumbling about STD having "filled its purpose" or something like that. 14:47
colomon Woodi: the test suite isn't quite stable on normal language functionalities, alas. 14:48
for instance, the "munch" problem pointed out last week. 14:49
Woodi colomon: munch ?
14:49 mishin joined
mishin hi perl 6 what compiler i need to compile racudo under win7? 14:50
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Woodi that one www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/munch_edvard.html ? 14:52
colomon munch is a list-related method which is used for tests in seven or eight files of the test suite 14:55
it's never been spec'd
and no one knows if it is going to go away or eventually become part of the spec 14:56
(as that entire section of the spec is scheduled to be rewritten)
masak hi mishin -- it should just work, I think. jnthn will know more, but he's giving a talk right now. 14:57
moritz mishin: I think msvc should be fine 14:58
Woodi I do not thing such thing is standard functionality. anyway I just wrote Perl6 module with semi-Perl5-features and it works
moritz mishin: I think msvc should be fine 14:59
Woodi probably Perl5 installation is needed too. and there are binaries for Win 15:00
masak heh -- I ended up with exactly 100 slides for my "small languages, less accidentally" talk :)
Woodi animation ?
masak well, gradual slides, yes. 15:08
some of them.
I see 2011 as the year where Rakudo (thanks to jnthn's optimizer branch) starts to clearly do things that Perl 5 doesn't and probably can't. 15:09
Woodi masak: just remember: 'Perl6 is here!' :) 15:13
what shell or awk functionality missing in Perl6 ? 15:14
masak the spec? that's a kinda vague question.
Woodi no, here I mean Rakudo and Niecza 15:15
even Pugs
masak I don't think Rakudo does <<...>> yet, but I might be wrong.
Pugs does it.
Woodi excluding speed Perl6 compilers can do real work 15:16
masak and jnthn++ is working on the speed bit. and Niecza already does quite well, I think.
Woodi what is status NCI in b ? 15:17
MYSQL was working ?
15:22 kmwallio left
sorear good * #perl6 15:23
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moritz perl6: sub f($x) { return if $x == 1; state %h = a => 1; say %h.perl }; f 1; f 2; 15:28
p6eval niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«{"a" => 1}.hash␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«{("a" => 1),}␤»
..rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
mishin moritz: tahnks, i try www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-u...pp-express
moritz thinks it's a rakudobug
buubot_backup: eval: sub f { return if $_[0]; state $x = 3; $x }; f 1; f 15:31
buubot_backup moritz: ERROR: Can't call method "state" on an undefined value at (eval 20) line 1.
moritz buubot_backup: eval: use 5.010; sub f { return if $_[0]; state $x = 3; $x }; f 1; f
buubot_backup moritz: 3
Woodi nom: my %cmds = { 'a' => (0,1) }; my $s = %cmds{ 'a' }; say $s 15:33
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«0 1␤»
Woodi $scalar contains @list... Parcel but strange... 15:34
different then Perl5 15:35
moritz
.oO( Woodi but Strange )
Woodi :) no exact idea what you think but it differs from Perl5 15:37
found it in module i work on 2 months....
moritz yes, we figured it makes sense not to lose information just because you put somethin in scalar context
Woodi work nice 15:38
dalek q: 645ea3e | moritz++ | answers.md:
fix markup
Woodi so this parcel means ?
moritz can you pleaes rephrase your question?
I don't understand it 15:39
Woodi first think: it can have separate sigil.
ok. so parcel means: not to lose information just because you put somethin in scalar context
moritz I don't see how that's related to Parcels 15:40
Woodi nom: my %cmds = { 'a' => (0,1) }; my $s = %cmds{ 'a' }; say $s.WHAT
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
moritz (0, 1) is a Parcel
(though maybe it should become a List in item context, the spec is kinda vague on that point) 15:41
Woodi so parcels are kind a pointer ?
moritz no
Woodi in Java sense
moritz nearly everything is a pointer in the java sense in Perl 6
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moritz we just lifted the p5 restriction that you can't directly put an array or a hash into a scalar variable 15:42
Woodi moritz: me thinks this is worth separate blogpost :)
moritz Woodi: faq.perl6.org/#ref
Woodi this is what i mean 'Perl6 is here!' - I write Perl6 module just in semi-Perl5 and have no idea about real Perl6... 15:45
dalek q: fa74992 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
report last update time in UTC
moritz perl6: sub f { return eval '$x'; state $x = 3 }; say f 16:08
p6eval niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $x is declared but not used at /tmp/Zxv8KvQB05 line 1:␤------> sub f { return eval '$x'; state ⏏$x = 3 }; say f␤␤Any()␤»
..rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«␤»
dalek ast: 633e3c3 | moritz++ | S04-declarations/state.t:
test state var initialization when the first run of the routine does not reach the initialization
 16:10
moritz submits rakudobug 16:12
jnthn moritz: what's the bug? 16:22
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moritz perl6: sub f($x) { return if $x; state $a = 5; say $a }; f 1; f 0 16:29
p6eval pugs b927740, niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«5␤»
..rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
moritz jnthn: that's the bug
(not related to the eval thing, I just wanted to check how the different implementations do it)
submitted as RT #102994 16:30
jnthn Hm. It's behaving as I expect
START is not ENTER.
Or a one time ENTER
diakopter sorear: oh
mishin moritz: well, i run perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot gist.github.com/1341665 but it doesn't help me compile rakudo, i don't know what i should do under windows
16:31 ab5tract left
mishin i think i need remove previos rakudo installation 16:32
moritz jnthn: S04 says about START: "on first ever execution, once per closure clone" 16:33
jnthn: but rakudo never seems to initialize $a
mishin: yes, you should
jnthn moritz: It says it does it inline
(the spec) 16:34
(S04)
masak and I are just looking at it
moritz how does doing it inline comes out as not doing it at all?
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jnthn moritz: When we first enter a block, we flag it as started 16:38
That flag gets checked when deciding whether to execute STARTs
diakopter nom: my $a = (sub { my $b; return sub { START { $b++ }; return $b; }; })(); say $a(); say $a(); 16:43
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&START' called (line 1)␤»
moritz ... and?
moritz fails to see the point
diakopter too
moritz jnthn: when it's implemented like that, all START phasers have to first block enter, even if they aren't reached textually 16:44
just like all other phasers 16:45
nom: exit; BEGIN say 1
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz same here; the control flow never reaches the BEGIN, but the phaser still fires
nom: sub f { return; ENTER { say "in f" } }; f 16:46
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤ENTER phaser not yet implemented at line 1, near " }; f"␤»
dalek odel: cd9435d | diakopter++ | lua/runtime/List.lua:
minor bugfix
16:49 thou left
moritz on an unrelated matter, do we plan to do a perl 6 advent calendar this year too? 16:49
s/too/again/
I'm certainly for it, and would write one or more posts, but I'd like support from all you awesome guys and gals too :-) 16:50
dalek odel: ed7a683 | diakopter++ | .gitignore:
update .gitignore
16:52 huf left 16:56 huf joined
dalek odel: d4978a3 | diakopter++ | lua/compiler/Makefile:
Makefile doesn't blow away LocalsOptimizer.lua
 16:58
16:58 wk left 17:01 TimToady joined
diakopter TimToady: wb 17:01
TimToady thanks
phenny TimToady: 06:00Z <sorear> tell TimToady I would like to extract knowledge from you on how Perl 6 should treat \n and text-mode file IO on Windows
17:01 mishin left
diakopter re: that, STD doesn't seem to like \r\n 17:02
uv_ perl6: my $abc='ABC'; say $abc; $abc.=lc.=ucfirst; say $abc;
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«ABC␤Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value␤ in method dispatch:<.=> at src/gen/CORE.setting:730␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/tI7h0urOWk:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/tI7h0urOWk:1␤»
..pugs b927740, niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«ABC␤Abc␤»
TimToady probably not treating \n as logical newline 17:03
I'm fine with continuing the fine tradition of turning binary \r\n into \n internally on Windows
if anything, P6 has a much larger text vs binary distinction
unlike P5, P6 defaults to text 17:04
including for unicode
P5 defaults to both :)
diakopter phenny: tell sorear see irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-11-05#i_4665299 ff. 17:06
phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
17:08 not_gerd left 17:10 wk joined
dalek odel: 0ed7989 | diakopter++ | / (2 files):
blow away P6Objects.pm; lots more tests pass.
 17:20
17:21 mishin joined
dalek : a0a224f | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2011/ (2 files):
initial topic brainstomring for the Perl 6 advent calendar 2011
 17:25
17:25 MayDaniel left
colomon brainstorming already, oh my! 17:26
17:27 bluescreen10 joined
moritz colomon: I've got an email asking if were planning one for 2011 17:31
and since I'll be on vacation for one week in November, it's better to start a bit earlier 17:32
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TimToady
.oO(Is Perl 6 done yet? Perl 6 is the Future, so of course it's unevenly distributed!)
 17:55
17:57 MayDaniel joined 18:01 GlitchMr left
moritz
.oO( Perl 6 is the future, and TimToady its prophet )
 18:02
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mishin moritz: i couldn't compile perl6 for win plus.google.com/u/0/11673321968815...sqbKTHKXPX 18:24
moritz mishin: I don't know what to do, since I don't develo on windows :/ 18:29
maybe jnthn knows
18:32 LarryB joined, LarryB left 18:38 mishin left
diakopter I was just about to tell mishin of my misfortune trying to build parrot on windows 18:39
it failed on cygwin/perl/gcc, windows/strawberry/gcc, windows/activeperl/msvc, all three with very different errors 18:40
18:41 mishin joined
diakopter mishin: I tried building rakudo/parrot on windows the other day; if failed on cygwin/perl/gcc, windows/strawberry/gcc, windows/activeperl/msvc, all three with very different errors 18:41
mishin: for the time being, you might try the parrot 3.9.0 installer from sourceforge 18:42
18:42 vmspb joined
diakopter sourceforge.net/projects/parrotwin3...e/download 18:43
mishin diakopter: thanks for info and for link, may be it help's me
diakopter mishin: unfortunately I don't know the command line option to rakudo's Configure to tell it to use an installed parrot 18:44
18:45 not_gerd joined
moritz perl Configure --gen-nqp --with-parrot=path/to/parrot.exe 18:46
mishin diakopter:I will try to put a, moritz:thanks 18:48
18:52 colomon left, vmspb left 18:56 vmspb joined 19:01 ethndbst left
dalek odel: e35833a | diakopter++ | lua/runtime/Runtime/Ops/P6mapping.lua:
implement missing P6mapping Ops
 19:02
19:06 kaare_ left
dalek odel: 1affb51 | diakopter++ | lua/runtime/Runtime/ (2 files):
moar fixes
 19:14
sorear hello 19:16
phenny sorear: 17:06Z <diakopter> tell sorear see irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-11-05#i_4665299 ff.
19:17 not_gerd left
sorear TimToady: ping 19:22
TimToady: if \n should match a logical newline, where does that leave <[ \ \t\n ]> ? obviously(?) a character class should never match more than one grapheme
TimToady: I'm also interested in knowing your thoughts on www.unicode.org/reports/tr18/#Partial_Matches 19:25
moritz sorear: in perl 5, 'SS' =~ /^[ß]$/i 19:29
nom: say (104729, 86653, * % * ... 1).perl 19:35
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«(104729, 86653, 18076, 14349, 3727, 3168, 559, 373, 186, 1).list␤»
moritz nom: say (104729, 86653, * div * ... 0).perl 19:36
p6eval nom 9c2880: OUTPUT«(104729, 86653, 1, 86653, 0).list␤»
19:36 cooper joined
sorear Should "\n" always be taken to mean "\cJ" ? 19:40
Should there be any wildcarding magic in / "\n" / ?
19:41 colomon joined
sorear o/ colomon 19:42
mishin moritz: it doesn't help gist.github.com/1341885 19:43
moritz :( 19:44
colomon \o 19:46
sorear:
If the C# accessor code looks like this:
public virtual string [] Performers {
get {return new string [] {};}
set {}
}
How do I get at it from Niecza? 19:47
(Don't know if you saw in the backlog, I'm trying to get TagLib# to work with Niecza.)
sorear my $string-arr = $obj.Performers;
$obj.Performers = $string-arr; 19:48
$string-arr will be a CLR::("System.String[]") object; there isn't an unambiguous best way to marshal them, so they're left alone by the interface
colomon so what can you do with CLR::System::String[]? 19:49
(as it calls itself.)
(in .WHAT, I mean) 19:50
sorear monop 'System.String[]' 19:51
in particular .Length() and .Get($index)
diakopter cranially dents a brick wall 19:52
sorear wonders what would happen if you tried to $string-arr.Address($index) from Perl 6 code 19:53
sorear tries it
colomon sorear: gotcha. BTW, on second thought, why isn't there an unambiguous best way to marshall?
sorear Aborted (core dumped)
mishin moritz: returning to ubuntu;))
sorear colomon: because CLR arrays are inescapably mutable objects
colomon sorear: ah, and we'd have to break that connection, so to speak? 19:54
sorear yes
it's even more of a problem going the other way - CLR arrays cannot be tied, so there's no fully correct way to pass an Array[Int] as a CLR::System::Int32[] 19:55
coming *from* we could probably fake marshalling with a tie
moritz I have a lazy list, say @a
and want to use its element one after the other in the generator of the series operator 19:56
is there a neat way to do it?
colomon sequence operator?
@a ... whatever
moritz something like $a, $b, { $^b + $next-item-from-a * $^a}
colomon ah
moritz s/series/sequence/, yes
I'm currently useing @a.shift, but it's destructive and feels rather cheaty 19:57
colomon seems like that might not be the best candidate for a sequence operator, off the top of my head
moritz hm
a zip seems better for interleaving, but then the second-old element from the to-be-generated sequence isn't available 19:58
colomon sorear: so something like (^$a.Length).map({ $a.Get($_) }) converts the string array to a p6 list of Str... errr, probably a list of C# strings. 19:59
sorear this is a classic use case for unfoldr from the Haskell Prelude.
colomon: C# strings are immutable so they can be transparently mapped to p6 Strs (and they are)
sorear ponders writing a CLRUtilities.pm6 module with facilities for list marshalling, etc 20:00
diakopter +1
colomon sorear++ # quite right
afk
sorear which for?
diakopter jnthn: ping 20:01
phenny: ask jnthn my eyes bleed from debugging nqplua; it needs a fresh set of eyes 20:04
phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
colomon sorear: ++ was for correctly calling (and therefore previously having implemented) the conversion to Str. 20:05
but +1 on CLRUtilities.pm6, too
sorear fwiw, there's a possibility that the string stuff may have to change with universal NFG in the coming months 20:06
colomon .... universal NFG?
sorear right now in niecza .chars means .codes 20:07
someday I need to fix that and make it possible for strings to be indexed by grapheme index
currently niecza's Str wraps a C# String, so converting between the forms is O(1) 20:08
colomon oh.
gotcha. 20:09
I've got to run work on the leaves in the yard, but I'm happy to boldly stumble where few have gone before and come up with routines that would be great to have in CLRUtilities.pm6. 20:10
afk
sorear prepares a bug report for the Address thing :) 20:17
20:19 saaki joined 20:28 ethndbst joined 20:29 Chillance joined 20:45 cooper left, cooper joined
vmspb perl6: $_='aAa'; say qf/$_.uc $_.lc/; 20:52
p6eval pugs b927740, niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«$_.uc $_.lc␤»
..rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 1, near "say qf/$_."␤»
vmspb perl6: $_='aAa'; say qq/$_.uc $_.lc/; 20:54
p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 9c2880, niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«aAa.uc aAa.lc␤»
vmspb perl6: $_='aAa'; say q/$_.uc $_.lc/;
p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 9c2880, niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«$_.uc $_.lc␤»
sorear perl6: $_='aAa'; say qq/$_.uc() $_.lc()/;
p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 9c2880, niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«AAA aaa␤»
sorear to reduce the false positive rate, parens are required on all interpolated method calls 20:55
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vmspb sorear: tnx 21:24
perl6: my $a='aAa'; $_='bBb'; say <<1 $a.=uc().=lc()>>;
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«1 $a.=uc().=lc()␤»
..niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«1 aaa␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«1aAa.=uc().=lc()␤»
vmspb perl6: my $a='aAa'; $_='bBb'; say <<2 $a.=uc() .=lc()>>;
p6eval niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«2 AAA .=lc()␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«2aAa.=uc().=lc()␤»
..rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«2 $a.=uc() .=lc()␤»
vmspb perl6: my $a='aAa'; $_='bBb'; say <<3 $a.=uc() $_.=lc()>>;
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«3 $a.=uc() $_.=lc()␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«3aAa.=uc()bBb.=lc()␤» 21:25
..niecza v11-20-gb962c2f: OUTPUT«3 AAA bbb␤»
vmspb I think variant 2 and 3 should be the same
sorear vmspb: what exactly are you trying to do?
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flussence he's doing a good job of digging up bugs :) 21:25
sorear vmspb: no, 2 and 3 should not be the same 21:26
vmspb perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Implicit...thod_Calls 21:29
sorear vmspb: that applies to code, not quotes 21:30
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sorear contrary to popular belief, you can't just put arbitrary Perl 6 code in the middle of a double-quoted string and have it work. 21:31
moritz well, you can, if you put {...} around it 21:33
:-)
dalek odel: c42173e | diakopter++ | lua/compiler/try.sh:
update try.sh (untested) for nqplua; sorear++ for finding
 21:34
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soh_cah_toa rakudo: my :($foo, $bar) 22:32
p6eval rakudo 9c2880: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my at line 1, near ":($foo, $b"␤»
soh_cah_toa well, even though that failed, what does that ^ kind of declaration do? i've never seen the : used before 22:33
sorear std: my :($foo, $bar)
p6eval std be1f10e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my at /tmp/tzmhRV4Nei line 1:␤------> my ⏏:($foo, $bar)␤ expecting scoped declarator␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
dalek odel: 88e7252 | sorear++ | lua/compiler/try.sh:
try.sh needs to be marked executable to work on Unix
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dalek odel: 8763433 | sorear++ | lua/runtime/Metamodel/KnowHOW/KnowHOWBootstrapper.lua:
Fix nil concatenate secondary error on method-not-found
 23:26
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