»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
TimToady one can find many philosophers who will tell you it's okay to be selfish, but even Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself" meaning much the same thing: you can't love other people if you haven't learned how to love yourself. 00:02
ahmad_ TimToady: well it is not easy to love yourself more than anyone.. for example i love my children more than myself. i do make my life harder to make sure their life will be easier.. so the human should be giving by nature.. 00:04
TimToady sure, I think the saying is more about quality than quantity. :) 00:05
ahmad_ agreed.. 00:06
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ahmad_ i guess the best quotes i ever read were by Nietzsche.. like “Amor Fati – “Love Your Fate”, which is in fact your life.” 00:27
good night all
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dalek p/qbootstrap: fed8d1f | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
A couple more dependency fixes.
 00:38
p/qbootstrap: 4223af2 | jnthn++ | src/QHLL/Compiler.pm:
Remove currently unused rxtrace arg.
p/qbootstrap: 3ec2f33 | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
Some tweaks, one very much a hack, to get us through the build again.
p/qbootstrap: 9b81195 | jnthn++ | src/NQPQ/Grammar.pm:
Temporary hack during migration to NQP::Grammar.TOP. With this, we actually get a little way into parsing.
p/qbootstrap: 0815cde | jnthn++ | src/QHLL/Grammar.pm:
Fix MARKER/MARKED to work with QRegex.
p/qbootstrap: a0c3e8a | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
Implement missing ww.
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jnthn wonders if he can crack the QRegex migration during the weekend... 00:42
Anyway, should rest a bit... &
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kshannon jnthn: I hope we can bring rxtrace back after you get the bootstrap working - I've found it be invaluable. 01:06
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dalek ecs: 02361b0 | larry++ | S32-setting-library/Numeric.pod:
spec stringified forms of Complex and Rat
 01:11
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japhb_ TimToady, your latest spec commit seems to have a copy paste error; line 533 says "complex literals" when it appears you meant "rational literals" or "Rat literals". 01:27
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sorear What's the correct syntax to use for L<> in roast files, or should I just not worry about it? 01:30
colomon nom: (1, 1, -> $a, $b { say $a.perl; say $b.perl; $a + 1, $b * 2 } ... *)[^4] 01:37
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«1␤1␤2␤2␤»
dalek ecza: 142a619 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
Implement new Rat/Complex stringification spec
colomon sorear++
errr... I take it parsing them doesn't work yet? 01:39
nom: (1, 1, -> $a, $b { say $a.perl; say $b.perl; $a + 1, $b * 2 } ... *)[^10] 01:40
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«1␤1␤2␤2␤3␤4␤4␤8␤5␤16␤6␤32␤7␤64␤8␤128␤»
sorear mm?
colomon <1/2> isn't a Rat yet 01:42
sorear no
colomon (the sequence is the other thing I'm working on)
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colomon nom: say (1, 1, { $^a + 1, $^b * 2 } ... *)[^10] 01:43
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«1 1 2 2 3 4 4 8 5 16 6 32 7 64 8 128 9 256␤»
colomon niecza: (1, 1, -> $a, $b { say $a.perl; say $b.perl; $a + 1, $b * 2 } ... *)[^10] 01:44
p6eval niecza v13-144-gf7281f0: OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤$(2, 2)␤$(2, 2)␤$(2, 4)␤$(2, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤$(3, 4)␤»
colomon there we go
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skids nom: class A is IO { has $chomp = False; }; my A $a .= new; $a.perl.say; 01:47
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«A.new()␤»
skids hrm. 01:48
skids golfs
sorear niecza: say (4.5**60).perl
p6eval niecza v13-144-gf7281f0: OUTPUT«1797010299914431210413179829509605039731475627537851106401/1152921504606846976␤»
sorear rakudo: say (4.5**60).perl 01:49
p6eval rakudo 975b6b: OUTPUT«1797010299914431210413179829509605039731475627537851106401/1152921504606846976␤»
skids nom: class A is IO { has $.chomp = False; }; my A $a .= new; $a.perl.say; 01:51
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«A.new(chomp => Bool::False)␤»
skids nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { has $.a = 1; }; my A $a .= new; $a.perl.say 01:52
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«A.new(a => 1, a => 1)␤»
skids OK, so is that supposed to be the right way to override a default value for an attribute, and if so, why the extra pair?
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dalek ecza: ae314ef | sorear++ | t/spectest.data:
Run S32-num/stringify.t
 01:54
ast: 1596c94 | sorear++ | S32-num/stringify.t:
Add tests for perl6/specs@02361b0
colomon skids: no, you've just sayid that both A and B have a $.a
*said 01:56
skids Hrm... well, out of curiosity, how would you distinguish $a.a (A's a) and $a.a (B's a)? And is there a way to override defaults other than writing a constructor?
colomon niecza: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { has $.a = 1; }; my A $a .= new; $a.perl.say 01:57
p6eval niecza v13-144-gf7281f0: OUTPUT«A.new(...)␤»
sorear colomon: the answer you're looking for is no, Niecza doesn't implement two-keyed attribute names yet. 01:58
colomon two-keyed? 01:59
doesn't handle this case, you mean?
sorear class+name
nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { has $.a = 1; }; my A $a .= new; $a.perl.say
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«A.new(a => 1, a => 1)␤»
sorear hah
looks like it's a little broken in nom too :D
colomon: btw, 76 new spectests for niecza :p 02:00
(should be LHF for Rakudo too)
colomon yeah, I noticed. :)
sorear++
kshannon nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { has $.a = 1; }; my A $a .= new; $a.B::a = 3; $a.perl.say 02:02
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value␤»
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TimToady I would not worry about L<> at the moment, since we're rapidly approaching the point at which we should restructure the entire spec and make it wikifiabler. 02:03
kshannon nom: class B { has $.a = 0; method set_a ($new_a) { $!a = $new_a; } }; class A is B { has $.a = 1; }; my A $a .= new; $a.set_a(3); $a.perl.say
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«A.new(a => 1, a => 1)␤»
kshannon :)
nom: class B { has $.a = 0; method set_a ($new_a) { $!a = $new_a; } }; class A is B { has $.a = 1; }; my A $a .= new; $a.set_a(3); $a.perl.say; say $a.B::a;
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«A.new(a => 1, a => 1)␤3␤»
kshannon Hmm, I think that's a bug in .perl 02:04
dalek ecs: dc9dfec | larry++ | S32-setting-library/Numeric.pod:
pasto noted by japhb++
colomon kshannon: yeah, that's what I was thinking. 02:05
sorear TimToady: wait, wait, what?
TimToady most of the synopses are still of the form "here's what we changed from Perl 5" 02:06
we need to reorganize the spec to be more standalone 02:07
while we're at it, a lot of bullet points need to turn into headings, though diakopter++ has been working on that already
but we probably need permanent links that don't rely so much on line numbers or text searches 02:08
some of the synopses probably could use to be split up too, so eventually we may have to abandon the S\d\d naming 02:09
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TimToady certainly when we come out with a new Camel-equivalent, it won't have the same chapter numbers anyway 02:09
I think this is one of the things we need to do to productize Perl 6 over the next year or two 02:10
just one of many
ruoso TimToady: how is the parsing of "map { } <== map { } <== grep { },1..10 " supposed to be? <== is an infix, so it's getting parsed as map(({ } <== (map(({ } <== (grep { }, 1..10)))))) 02:11
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sorear ruoso: how did b do it? 02:13
ruoso b? 02:14
colomon rakudo ng
skids S10 and S11 are such an anticlimax to open after reading the monster-sized ones before them. Should probably break Names out of S02 and throw those three in a blender. 02:15
TimToady ruoso: <== is of looser precedence than listops
see S03:58
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sorear TimToady: How do you think $obj does Role(12) should be parsed/translated? 02:23
TimToady: jnthn thinks it's special syntax and Role(12) is not meaningful in isolation
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skids nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { has $.A::a = 1; }; my A $a .= new; $a.perl.say 02:24
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«A.new(A::a => 1, a => 0)␤»
TimToady yes, it's special, though I suppose we might possibly be able to think of it as a WHENCE 02:28
skids nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { has $.B::a = 1; }; my A $a .= new; $a.perl.say; $a.a.say; $a.B::a.say; 02:29
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«A.new(B::a => 1, a => 0)␤0␤0␤»
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skids (Oddly the same does not happen when doing the above eval and fiddling with .IO::chomp) 02:36
dalek ast: f852369 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S (2 files):
Comment out obsolete tests, fudge for niecza.
 02:37
ruoso niecza: sub infix:<a>($, *@a) { say @a.perl() }; 1 a 1..20
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«(1, ).list␤»
ruoso how do I capture the range itself?
skids (oh wait, nm, it does.) 02:38
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ruoso hmmm... 02:44
niecza: use Threads; say my @a <== 1..20; say @a
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«[1]..20␤1␤»
colomon niecza: sub list(*@a) { @a.list }; say list(10).WHAT 02:45
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«List()␤»
colomon niecza: sub list(*@a) { @a.list }; say list(10).perl
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«(10, ).list␤» 02:46
colomon niecza: sub list(*@a) { @a.list }; say list(10, 12).perl
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«(10, 12).list␤»
dalek ast: 75caa74 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/context.t:
Fudge for niecza.
 02:52
ecza: 45d2b42 | (Solomon Foster)++ | / (2 files):
Turn on S03-operators/context.t.
 02:53
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colomon niecza: say '{'.perl 03:01
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«"{"␤»
colomon niecza: say 'a'.perl 03:02
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«"a"␤»
colomon niecza: say '{'.perl.eval 03:03
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method eval in class Str␤ at /tmp/SDkXT_idFv line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2831 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2832 (module-CORE @ 58) ␤ at /home/…
TimToady perl6: say '$x'.perl 03:04
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«"$x"␤»
..pugs b927740, rakudo 975b6b: OUTPUT«"\$x"␤»
TimToady oops :)
colomon yeah, I was just getting there here. :) 03:05
perl6: say '{'.perl
p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 975b6b: OUTPUT«"\{"␤»
..niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«"{"␤»
colomon niecza: say "\{
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/H71BZ2b7N4 line 1:␤------> say⏏ "\{␤␤Confused at /tmp/H71BZ2b7N4 line 1:␤------> …
colomon niecza: say "\{".eval
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method eval in class Str␤ at /tmp/rNM5i3GYRm line 1 (mainline @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2831 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2832 (module-CORE @ 58) ␤ at /home/…
sorear ruoso: to capture the range itself, use @a instead of *@a
colomon niecza: say eval("\{")
p6eval niecza v13-146-gae314ef: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to parse block at (eval) line 1 (EOF):␤------> {⏏<EOL>␤Couldn't find final '}'; gave up at (eval) line 1 (EOF):␤------> {⏏<EOL>␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 919 (die…
sorear colomon: what are you doing? 03:06
colomon trying to get S02-names-vars/perl.t to run
(fudging, in other words)
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skids nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { submethod BUILD ($!a = 1) {} }; my A $a .= new; $a.a.say; 03:09
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed_str()␤»
kshannon skids: if you want BUILD to take positional args, you have to write your own new 03:23
nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { submethod BUILD (:$!a = 1) {} }; my A $a .= new; $a.a.say;
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed_str()␤»
kshannon Hmmm, but I see that's not actually the problem. Bad nom! 03:24
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skids kshannon: Thanks. What I want is a subclass with a different default value for an inherited attribute. The rest is just fun in the rabbit hole. 03:27
TimToady colomon: you could test your fancy pi spigot against nom now and see if it works 03:28
the one with the sublist matching 03:29
(I don't think niecza does that yet, but nom has bigints now)
colomon yes
TimToady if so, you could install it as the 400th entry on RC :)
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kshannon nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { method new (:$a = 1, *%_) { nextwith :$a, |%_; } }; my A $a .= new; $a.a.say; 03:35
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon TimToady: looks like it works fine in nom
If you'd like, I'll try to install it on RC tomorrow -- I'm going to bed now. 03:36
kshannon skids: like that ^^ ?
nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { method new (:$a = 1, *%_) { nextsame; } }; my A $a .= new; $a.a.say;
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«0␤»
colomon TimToady: 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494 took 5.7 seconds to generate 03:37
I've only checked the first 40 digits of that. ;)
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kshannon colomon: looks right to me. 03:38
TimToady \o/ 03:39
skids kshannon: perfect. thanxo mucho!
kshannon skids: I think the nextsame should work, but is currently not... 03:40
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sorear colomon: stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/contrib/pi/pi-billion.txt 03:44
kshannon or 3.141592653589793238462643383279502...44592.com/ 03:45
japhb wonders if there is a similar website for tau 03:46
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skids heh. All that trouble and .open('foo') on the 'is IO' class resets .chomp to True. 03:54
sorear Why are you doing this?
skids Investigating subclassing IO for specific formats. 03:55
sorear I do not think subclassing IO is a good idea
for a start, there is still dissent on what the IO type hierarchy should be 03:56
skids For sure, but if I waited for that to get sorted...
sorear I'm sure there's a better, easier, more portable way to accomplish your goals. 03:57
skids Well, if I took the easy way, that would be totally out of character for me :-)
(As far as type heirarchy, I wasn't creating an IO::Foo but rather a Foo::File) 04:00
kshannon Should nextsame be incorporating the defaults from the current signature? or passing through the exact same arguments that were passed? 04:02
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sorear kshannon: Exact same. 04:02
kshannon nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { method new (:$a = 1, *%_) { nextsame; } }; my A $a .= new; $a.a.say; 04:03
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«0␤» 04:04
kshannon So 0 is correct?
sorear yes
benabik nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { method new (:$.a = 1, *%_) { nextsame; } }; my A $a .= new; $a.a.say;
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤» 04:05
sorear if you want to modify the arguments, use nextwith
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benabik Oh, new gets an undefined self. Blah. 04:05
nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { method new (:$a = 1, *%_) { next with(:a($a), *%_); } }; my A $a .= new; $a.a.say;
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&_' called (line 1)␤Undefined routine '&with' called (line 1)␤» 04:06
benabik nom: class B { has $.a = 0; }; class A is B { method new (:$a = 1, *%_) { nextwith(:a($a), *%_); } }; my A $a .= new; $a.a.say;
p6eval nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&_' called (line 1)␤»
benabik Nevermind.
sorear |%_
not *%_
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dalek ecza: fd65896 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
Add Niecza::toggle_mono_trace which does raise(SIGUSR2), man mono for why this might be useful
 05:35
ecza: bf6b78c | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
Implement $foo ~~ Bar[5]
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sorear niecza: class { has $.x is rw } 06:47
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: ( no output )
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sorear niecza: sub foo(pi) { } 07:00
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Lexical pi is not a package at /tmp/gxm79mKXs3 line 1:␤------> sub foo(pi⏏) { }␤␤Potential difficulties:␤ &foo is declared but not used at /tmp/gxm79mKXs3 line 1:␤------> sub foo⏏(pi) { }…
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spine /msg p6eval perl6: sub MAIN() {} 10:28
The MAIN subs stopped working for me in current nom 10:43
perl6 -e "sub MAIN($n){}" 100
Method 'package' not found for invocant of class 'BOOTSTRAPATTR'
only numerical arguments seem to cause the error 10:46
fsergot nom: sub MAIN() {} 10:49
p6eval nom 975b6b: ( no output )
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masak mornin', #perl6 10:51
kshannon \o masak 10:53
Woodi hallo masak 10:54
jnthn morning, #perl6 10:55
Woodi hi jnthn
kshannon o/ jnth
s/$/n/
jnthn spine: Ah, I'll bet I busted that yesterday. D'oh.
o/ kshannon 10:56
I patched the nqp bootstrap bustage last night.
Probably not the final solution, but makes it work again.
kshannon I saw. 11:04
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spine p6eval nom: my role a {}; say 1 but a; 11:30
p6eval spine: nom 975b6b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'package' not found for invocant of class 'BOOTSTRAPATTR'␤»
spine giving a role to an Int seems to be the problem 11:31
jnthn > my role a {}; say 1 but a;
1
Locally
(just fixed the issue)
spine nice :)
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dalek kudo/nom: 70e5fae | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
Ensure that attributes in the bootstrap get correctly set up with a package.
 11:41
kudo/nom: cfe49f0 | jnthn++ | src/core/Parcel.pm:
Fix incorrect proto signature introduced yesterday.
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dalek p/qbootstrap: e879f27 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
Add missing orig method to NQPMatch.
 12:00
p/qbootstrap: 308d64a | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
Get make and .ast working with QRegex NQP match object.
p/qbootstrap: f34a0f8 | jnthn++ | src/QHLL/Grammar.pm:
Fix panic and...we successfully fail to parse anything.
Woodi so, it is new year so I would like to promote some idea :) I was mentioning about it once before...
it is about two hands programming - two threads 12:01
threads are not educated much so basic usage will make them more common and allow to spread knowledge 12:02
here is nice and simple example of having two hands :) pastebin.com/h0d3vBGh 12:03
masak I don't understand your concept, but thus far into the explanation it doesn't sound like something Perl 6-related. 12:07
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colomon keeps on thinking this morning's pancakes look like fractals.... 13:39
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moritz back 14:45
jnthn o/ moritz 14:47
masak moritz! \o/ 14:48
moritz driving for a long time is exhausting. Especially if you have a 1-year-old complaining that it's boring, BORING :-) 14:49
masak wow, 1 year already?
she speaks better than she types :P
moritz one year in a week, actually 14:50
well, she didn't say "boring", but it was quite apparent what she meant :-)
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masak moritz++ # parsing baby 14:51
that's "for his ability to parse baby", not "such a baby at parsing", just to be clear. :P 14:52
"I speak baby." -- 11th Doctor 14:53
ruoso niecza: sub infix:<a>($, @a) { say @a.perl() }; 1 a 1..20 14:54
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Nominal type check failed in binding @a in infix:<a>; got Int, needed Positional␤ at /tmp/cHnnEp7wsS line 0 (infix:<a> @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/cHnnEp7wsS line 1 (mainline @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2833 (ANON @ 3) ␤…
ruoso sorear: ^ 14:55
moritz niecza: sub infix:<a>($, @a) { say @a.perl() }; 1 a (1..20)
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«1..20␤»
moritz precdence. It's not magic.
ruoso the default precedence will be higher then ..?
masak yes. 14:56
moritz niecza: sub infix:<a>($, @a) is looser(&infix:<..>) { say @a.perl() }; 1 a 1..20
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«1..20␤»
masak infix:<a> gets infix:<+> as default precedance.
I haven't thought about why that should be the default.
moritz I thought it was *, but they are close
masak reads his own Advent post
"Per default, an operator gets the same precedence as infix<+>." 14:57
masak says so, so it must be true.
that guy does his research.
moritz masak++ # research 14:58
masak do the 'tighter'/'looser'/'equiv' have any significance outside of operators? 15:02
s/have/traits have/
could they be made to make sense for listop subs, for example? 15:03
jnthn Just for ops, afaik 15:04
masak I think those traits should be conservatively made to throw an error on non-ops at parse time. 15:05
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kshannon niecza: sub foo ($x) is looser(&infix:<..>) { ... } 15:07
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Target does not seem to be an operator at /tmp/hjpwiocvdK line 1:␤------> sub foo ($x) is looser(&infix:<..>) ⏏{ ... }␤␤Potential difficulties:␤ $x is declared but not used at /tmp/hjpwiocvdK line 1:␤---…
kshannon You mean like that ^^
15:08 risou_awy is now known as risou
shinobicl___ hi.... is it _really_ needed to have "my" and "has"? I mean, why would you want to use "my" inside a class declaration? 15:08
masak shinobicl___: I do that all the time...
ruoso niecza: sub infix:<a>($, @a) is looser(&infix:<or>) { say @a.perl() }; 1 a 1..20
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤No precedence available for reference target at /tmp/9udJjCiRoP line 1:␤------> infix:<a>($, @a) is looser(&infix:<or>) ⏏{ say @a.perl() }; 1 a 1..20␤␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'infix:<or>' used at line 1␤␤Unh…
masak kshannon: and once again, Niecza rocks. :)
shinobicl___ masak: what's the difference on using my against a private "has" declaration? 15:09
masak shinobicl___: the former is shared between all instances, and even outside of the method bodies.
'my' cuts across all artificial instance mumbo-jumbo. 'has' adheres to it. 15:10
kshannon The same reason you'd use a 'my' variable in P5 'class'es 15:11
masak nom: class C { method foo { my $x = 42; method bar { say $x } }; C.new.bar; C.new.foo; C.new.bar
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 2␤»
masak nom: class C { method foo { my $x = 42; method bar { say $x } } }; C.new.bar; C.new.foo; C.new.bar
shinobicl___ i see. Thanks masak!
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«Any()␤42␤»
masak today is the last day before the deadline to sign up for p6cc! 15:12
32 people signed up so far! \o/ 15:13
that's almost twice as many as last year (18).
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dalek p/qbootstrap: 2d18985 | jnthn++ | src/QHLL/Grammar.pm:
Update various rules in QHLL::Grammar for new !cursor_start API.
 15:23
masak lutok: greetings.
p/qbootstrap: abb07dc | jnthn++ | src/QHLL/Grammar.pm:
Get EXPR at least somewhat fixed up for QRegex.
p/qbootstrap: c84aaf0 | jnthn++ | src/QHLL/Grammar.pm:
Another bunch of updates to EXPR. Gets us closer to working OPP with QRegex.
masak Q Boots. they're the latest fashion. 15:25
jnthn It's a trap! 15:27
masak no, it's a strap! :P 15:28
sjn it's a tarp!
dalek ecza: a17d4eb | (Daniel Ruoso)++ | / (2 files):
define the precedence for the feed op, now I can use $a <== 1..20
ruoso but map is not declared as a list prefix in niecza... so "map {} <== 1..20" can't really work... 15:30
masak what's it defined as?
ruoso plain sub 15:31
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masak don't plain subs have listop precedence, though? 15:34
or is "list prefix" something different from "listop"?
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masak how do I use IO.read to read all of the bytes? 15:39
jnthn In a loop?
Or just get the file length and pass that... 15:40
masak ooh, file length.
how do I get the file length, in bytes, from an IO object? :) 15:41
I guess .s will do it...
method read(IO:D: Int:D $bytes) { 15:43
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masak I think Int:D should be Cool:D here... 15:43
for the usual reasons.
jnthn Probably. 15:44
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masak oh no, .s returns a boolean -- "is the size non-zero?" 15:46
jnthn oh
masak and there's no other way to get the file size :(
masak compromizes and copies the mechanism from src/core/IO.pm into his own code 15:47
OO -- it's all about re-use :P
dalek p/qbootstrap: 999c0e4 | jnthn++ | src/Q (2 files):
Another round of fixes to OPP with QRegex; actually seems to work now.
 15:49
p/qbootstrap: 3efe24b | jnthn++ | src/NQPQ/Actions.pm:
Fix compilation of rules with parameters.
 15:55
shinobicl___ what am i doing wrong here? 15:58
rakudo: class A { has Str $!stuff; method new(Str $stuff){$!stuff = $stuff}; method pr{say $!stuff} }; my A $thing = A.new("abc"); $thing.pr;
p6eval rakudo cfe49f: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤ in method new at /tmp/o6k4pmKsSE:1␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/o6k4pmKsSE:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/o6k4pmKsSE:1␤»
kshannon The object doesn't exist yet in new(), you want to provide your own submethod BUILD 16:00
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skids
.oO(Str has a lot of methods. A rather heavy interface to require non-strings to tie to for ~~ when only a few like substr are actually used.)
 16:01
colomon rakudo: class A { has Str $!stuff; method new(Str $stuff){ bless(*, :$stuff); }; method pr{say $!stuff} }; my A $thing = A.new("abc"); $thing.pr; 16:02
p6eval rakudo cfe49f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&bless' called (line 1)␤»
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colomon rakudo: class A { has Str $!stuff; method new(Str $stuff){ self.bless(*, :$stuff); }; method pr{say $!stuff} }; my A $thing = A.new("abc"); $thing.pr; 16:03
p6eval rakudo cfe49f: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
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kshannon nom: class A { has Str $!stuff; method new(Str $stuff) { nextwith stuff => $stuff; }; submethod BUILD(Str :$!stuff) {}; method pr {say $!stuff} }; my A $thing .= new("abc"); $thing.pr; 16:03
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«abc␤»
skids colomon: fine as long as $!stuff isn't many megabytes long. 16:04
colomon ???
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kshannon skids: BTW unless you REALLY need .new to take postional arguments for some reason, you're usually better off going with named. 16:07
nom: class A { has Str $!stuff; submethod BUILD(Str :$!stuff) {}; method pr {say $!stuff} }; my A $thing .= new(stuff => "abc"); $thing.pr;
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«abc␤»
skids colomon: sorry I thought you were responding to me. 16:11
shinobicl___ that looks better. And, i think is not that bad to "force" named arguments on constructors... But it should be simpler to declare "simple" constructors like in, say, object pascal. 16:12
kshannon The list/map/iterator reify/REIFY interface: is there a specific reason for it to be the way it is (i.e. compatibility with something else) or can I have a go at cleaning it up.
For example, the list iterator really shouldn't have a reference to the list it was iterating which it calls REIFY on as a side effect.
shinobicl___: If you're willing to have public accessors, then it is. 16:13
nom: class A { has Str $.stuff; method pr {say $.stuff} }; my A $thing .= new(:stuff("abc")); $thing.pr; 16:14
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«abc␤»
skids let "genex" be to pack what regex/grammar is to unpack <-- was there ever a serious effort to flesh out something like that, and if so, anyone got links? 16:16
masak not to my knowledge, but it feels like a really worthy thing to try. 16:18
there's been mumblings about linking this up with compact types somehow, too.
even the unpack/pack spec mentions something like that. but it's all hot air so far. 16:19
flussence wouldn't that just be a templating language?
kshannon skids: you mean genex GENerates EXamples?
Ah, yeah templating makes more sense. 16:20
skids I offer no excuses for that coinage, other than it allows for bad Generation X jokes.
(And rhymes) 16:21
jnthn kshannon: pmichaud designed the interface there...I don't think he considers it perfect, so if you have ideas for improvements feel free to try them out. I'd be happy to look over any patches...
kshannon I was thinking skids was talking about something like the haskell QuickCheck Arbitrary type
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masak wallberg! \o/ 16:22
flussence oh, that makes sense...
kshannon I was going to paste an example that was NULL PMC'ing because of the design, but it looks like it doesn't anymore... 16:23
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moritz nom: say pir::null__P 16:27
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('gist')␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:5692␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/_3VfAQkwtE:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/_3VfAQkwtE:1␤»
moritz :-)
jnthn :P
masak that's a Null PMC access from inside the MOP. if we wanted, we could plug that one. 16:28
skids masak: yeah, that was the concept I was thinking of. I just get an icky feeling when writing regex to read data into an object and thinking "I'll have to duplicate a lot of this for a write-back-to data function." But it is definitely No Small Task(tm) to come up with something elegant in this area.
jnthn masak: Don't see the point. 16:29
flussence
.oO( isn't that the whole point of null__P? )
 16:30
moritz jnthn: what do you run to try to bootstrap in the qbootstrap branch? 16:31
is that just 'make bootstrap-files'?
and then 'make' again?
dalek p/qbootstrap: 5d63533 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
Match objects should have the cursor associated with them.
 16:32
p/qbootstrap: 33cc834 | jnthn++ | src/QHLL/Grammar.pm:
Get quote parsing to work again under QRegex. Now we parse and pass some of NQPs test suite again.
masak skids: no, which is maybe why no-one's done it yet.
jnthn moritz: It's not that far along yet
masak skids: still, it sounds like a worthwhile thing to have.
jnthn moritz: Current work is to make it pass make test again :)
moritz: Only then is it time to consider make bootstrap-files
moritz: Basically, in that branch stage1 is the equivalent of what nqpq builds in master. 16:33
moritz masak, skids: a good first step might be to make regexes/tokens introspectable
jnthn: ok
jnthn moritz: stage2 is thus built fully with QRegex (e.g. NQP::Grammar is compiled with QRegex) 16:34
moritz: There's a src/QHLL which is only used in stage2 - it's where I'm doing the updates to HLL::Grammar mostly.
moritz masak, skids: then you could write a generator that takes something of the same structure as the parse tree, and turn it back into something that the grammar would match
jnthn moritz: Once we're done, NQPQ and HLLQ go away, they're just around during migration.
moritz: Now we can run various of the test suite using QRegex, feel free to join in triage. 16:35
moritz jnthn: I'll take a look, but will also look at testneeded tickets -- maybe I can be more productive in that area 16:36
jnthn moritz: Probably easier to be productive there, yes.
masak grrr... dir() and open() don't follow least-surprise when it comes to paths. dir() returns pathless filenames, and open() expects pathful filenames. 16:38
skids moritz: I suppose the true sticking point would be reversing { make <expr> } which might be an indication that more reversable alternative constructs for putting stuff in .ast might be desireable. 16:40
moritz skids: right, that bit isn't very declarative at the moment 16:42
nom: ::T; 16:45
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol T␤»
moritz nom: ::T; class T { };
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol T␤»
moritz nom: class T { }; ::T 16:46
p6eval nom cfe49f: ( no output )
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dalek ast: 8c77b69 | moritz++ | S14-roles/parameterized-type.t:
RT #68134
 16:51
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dalek kudo/nom: 054d533 | masak++ | src/core/IO.pm:
[src/core/IO.pm] .read should accept Cool:D

Not just Int:D.		 17:03
masak I spectested the above patch, but it's possible there's no spectest for .read("42") or whatever.
I'll test that locally now. 17:04
fsergot nom: sub s( @ints ){ return [+] @ints; }; say "1: {s((1,2,3))}";
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«1: 6␤»
fsergot nom: sub s( @ints ){ return [+] @ints; }; say "1: {s(1,2,3)}";
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 's' will never work with argument types (int, int, int) (lines 1, 1)␤ Expected: :(Positional @ints)␤»
fsergot Maybe We can do something with this? 17:05
masak ah. getting "This type cannot unbox to a native integer"
fsergot nom: my @ints = 1,2,3; say @ints.perl;
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2, 3)␤»
masak jnthn: given a Cool, how do I cast it into an Int that can later be unboxed to a native integer. .Int ?
fsergot It is Array :)
jnthn .Int
masak fixes
jnthn fsergot: That compile time failure is correct. You're passing it three args. Write *@ints in the signature to do what you want. 17:06
fsergot jnthn++: thanks 17:07
TimToady and you got an Array from the assignment, not from the RHS, which is a Parcel
fsergot TimToady++ 17:08
TimToady well, actually you got an Array from the declaration, and the assignment merely populated it :) 17:09
dalek p/qbootstrap: 66618fc | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
Restore some basic rxtrace functionality. Unlike the previous version, this is zero cost if you don't enable it.
TimToady TimToady--
jnthn Also, nice that Rakudo caught that one at compile time ;)
TimToady
.oO("That trick never works!")
though in this case it'd be nice if it said "Too many arguments" 17:10
jnthn Yeah 17:11
TimToady not every newbie is going to be able to read signatures that well
and fsergot++'s mistake is quite natural, even if you aren't a newbie anymore 17:12
kshannon jnthn++ # rxtrace :) 17:14
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kshannon Here's a silly nom bug: 17:16
nom: say 27 ** 0.33333333333333333333333
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«3␤»
kshannon nom: say 27 ** 1/3
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«9␤»
dalek kudo/nom: 02ddac6 | masak++ | src/core/IO.pm:
[src/core/IO.pm] accept Cool but cast to Int

There, that should make us Postel-compliant. :-)		 17:17
masak "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- jon postel
kshannon: precedence.
kshannon: ** binds tighter than /
kshannon nom: say 27 ** (1/3)
p6eval nom cfe49f: OUTPUT«3␤»
masak kshannon: and whitespace isn't significant.
kshannon I swear I already tried that :(
That's what I get for coding at 4am 17:18
masak some enterprising soul could eradicate 'rule multisig' from src/Perl6/Grammar.pm in Rakudo. 17:23
jnthn Is it gone from STD?
kshannon: Yes, just used it to find an issue :) 17:24
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masak jnthn: no, it's still in STD.pm6. 17:24
TimToady given that these days we consider sigs to be intermixable with other traits, it's a completely unnecessary syntax 17:25
if we really want multiple signatures, we can just put two of 'em
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TimToady std: sub foo ($a,$b) ($b,$a) {...} 17:26
p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Useless redeclaration of variable $b (see line 1) at /tmp/oCNQvcvIQr line 1:␤------> sub foo ($a,$b) (⏏$b,$a) {...}␤ Useless redeclaration of variable $a (see line 1) at /tmp/oCNQvcvIQr line 1:␤------> sub foo ($a,$b…
TimToady heh
well, the syntax is allowed
don't need to implement it for 6.0 though
masak TimToady: I de-spec'd that part in 2011, though. 17:27
dalek p/qbootstrap: 814b46f | jnthn++ | src/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
Implement non-:local case of .^methods in NQP's ClassHOW.
p/qbootstrap: 682544b | jnthn++ | src/NQPQ/Grammar.pm:
Remove stray proto in NQP grammar.
p/qbootstrap: 862bcc7 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
Don't need to explicitly pass :local(0) - it's the default.
TimToady yes, I know
you despec'd the | syntax 17:28
but treating the sig like just another trait remains
and there are good reasons for wanting traits in front of the sig from time to time
masak oh, I thought the | syntax and multisig were exactly the same thing.
TimToady multisig is the name of the | syntax 17:29
masak wright.
right*
TimToady but I realized a few weeks ago that we still had multiple sigs possible without |
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TimToady for now we can just block it, until we decide it's implementable 17:29
masak as above. yes, I just realized too, reading STD.pm6 :)
I don't mind traits before the signature, but I don't see the point of multiple signatures. 17:30
I think they're a bad idea.
TimToady I think they're a better idea than either repeating yourself or defining a single-use trait 17:31
moritz what's so bad about multi sub infix:<+>(Date $d, Int $n) | (Int $n, Date $d) { Date.new($d.Int + $n) } # or so?
TimToady effectively, it's just two subs sharing a body
moritz rakudo: multi foo() { nextsame }; foo() 17:32
p6eval rakudo 02ddac: ( no output )
moritz is that right?
masak moritz: think so.
jnthn We've been back and forth quite a few times on nextsame. I seem to remember that we ended up with the tests and Rakudo in a consistent state, but I forget which one it was :P
masak it's consistent with how 'next' works. 17:33
TimToady yes, next turns into last at the end :)
masak lastsame ;)
TimToady lastcall discards the rest of the list but returns 17:34
masak I can definitely see the allure of 'infix:<+>(Date $d, Int $n) | (Int $n, Date $d)' and similar small examples. I still think it's a feature with only marginal benefit and lots of implementation complexity. 17:35
TimToady which is why we're not requiring it yet
masak considering how the alternative 'infix:<+>(Int $n, Date $d) { $d + $n }' isn't so bad.
TimToady it might turn out to be trivial
masak or someone could write a module to generate such signatures, and do a better job at it. 17:36
jnthn Somebody already did implement is symmetric trait (colomon++ iirc)
masak I for one would like to see an 'is commutative' trait.
TimToady hates it as insufficiently general, even though I originally proposed it 17:37
masak 'symmetric' is a weird name for that, symmetric is things like '$x == $x'
TimToady and I feel sorry for generations of math pupils whose teachers misprounounced it as "communative" :) 17:42
masak huh! doesn't seem to happen here in .se 17:45
ruoso thinking about "map { } <== ... ", IIUC, that parses as "(map { }) <== ...", which means that map gets invoked without a list... and in that case should return a new closure which will actually run the map with the items received by the closure... does that make sense? 17:48
Or the compilation should do something completely different? 17:49
jnthn dinner & 17:51
ruoso std: (map { }).(1,2,3)
p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
ruoso perl6: (map { .say }).(1,2,3) 17:52
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method postcircumfix:<( )> in class List␤ at /tmp/wFk1fSD9Cq line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2833 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2834 (module-CORE @ …
..rakudo 02ddac: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤ in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:3368␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/C6ukQ6jiQi:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/C6ukQ6jiQi:1␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** Cannot cast from VList [] to VCode (VCode)␤ at /tmp/8GVD9ZbkPH line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤»
moritz perl6: &map.assumming({ .say }).(1, 2, 3) 17:58
p6eval rakudo 02ddac: OUTPUT«Method 'assumming' not found for invocant of class 'Sub'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/tbcaIO8wVV:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/tbcaIO8wVV:1␤»
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Sub: "&assumming"␤ at /tmp/dRgYzwmG7Y line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤»
..niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method assumming in class Sub␤ at /tmp/6Z9aFn4TCs line 1 (mainline @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2833 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2834 (module-CORE @ 58) ␤ at /…
kshannon ruoso, no <== provides the list. 17:59
"(map { }) <== ..." is not correct.
The precedence is correct, but the feed operators need special treatment as their arguments aren't complete expressions, or at least the one it's pointing at isn't. 18:00
moritz wow, we don't seem to have tests for {call,next}{with,same} with subroutines at all 18:01
kshannon "map { } <== ..." sorta parses as "map { } ( ... )"
moritz just methods
... except together with wrap 18:02
probably because it's not explicitly mentioned in S06 that those should work with subs too 18:04
they should, right?
nom: multi a($) { say 'Any' }; multi a(Int $) { say 'Int'; nextsame }; a(3)
p6eval nom 02ddac: OUTPUT«Int␤Any␤»
kshannon for @lazy { ... } 18:08
What's the best way to rewrite that so for doesn't eagerly grab all of @lazy before it runs the body 18:09
moritz it... shouldn't
kshannon Well nom is...
golfing... 18:10
moritz nom: my @lazy = gather for 1..10 { take $_; say $_ } ; for @lazy { last }
p6eval nom 02ddac: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
moritz nom: my @lazy := gather for 1..10 { take $_; say $_ } ; for @lazy { last }
p6eval nom 02ddac: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
18:11 thou joined
moritz indeed :/ 18:11
kshannon I'm a bit worried it was my patch to .[ ] 18:12
moritz doesn't see any .[ ] in that code
kshannon Oops, I meant circumfix:<[ ]>, and I'm thinking it might be called somewhere in the implementation of 'for' 18:16
colomon nom's for has been doing that for quite a while now
kshannon quite a while = days, weeks, or months ? 18:17
colomon months, I think 18:18
18:18 birdwindupbird left
kshannon Oh. Well that lets me off the hook :) 18:18
colomon for *is* lazy for known infinite sources, so I assumed the current status was intentional. 18:19
TimToady it is allowed to work ahead in batches for efficiency; maybe this falls in that category 18:22
kshannon well, how can I massage a gather into "known infinite" :)
colomon TimToady: that actually vaguely rings a bell, now that you mention it. I vaguely recall pmichaud doing something about batching 1000 at a time... 18:23
kshannon Which reminds me, github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master...-10.t#L172 18:24
Is that still correct, as it only works when the take [ ... ] is eager. 18:25
TimToady should not matter, since the join will eventually eager it 18:28
kshannon Yeah, but the while loops forever producing lazy lists... 18:31
the outer while.
18:32 shinobicl___ left
TimToady well, you can always throw in an explicit 'eager' 18:37
you are, after all, relying on side effects there...
18:39 benabik joined
dalek ast: b7433f7 | (Kris Shannon)++ | integration/99problems-01-to-10.t:
Shouldn't be relying on laziness side effects.
 18:39
ast: 43749dc | (Kris Shannon)++ | integration/99problems-01-to-10.t:
Shouldn't be relying on side effects here either.
 18:41
moritz nom: multi b(Int $) { say 1; callsame; say 3 }; multi b($) { say 2 }; b(2); 18:55
p6eval nom 02ddac: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
moritz nom: multi b(Int $) { say 1; nextsame; say 3 }; multi b($) { say 2 }; b(2);
p6eval nom 02ddac: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
dalek ast: caf3d2c | moritz++ | S06-multi/redispatch.t:
tests for multi subs + {next,call}l}{with,same}
 19:00
ruoso kshannon: in that case <== is not simply a infix op... it needs to be a completely different category
19:02 sayu left 19:05 snearch left
kshannon ruoso: S06:Feed Operators: "Syntactically, feed operators expect to find a statement on either end" 19:06
19:06 kaare__ left 19:07 buubot_backup left
dalek kudo/nom: 327fc92 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run new redispatcher tests
 19:08
ruoso so it's not the same as any other infix op 19:09
moritz correct 19:10
TimToady I don't think that S06 quote is correct anymore, however
but feeds are a bit macroish
ruoso ok... but does the current infix logic allow such macroish behavior?
TimToady well, && and || are macros too :) 19:11
so, yes and no
ruoso because the macroish subst of <== is quite substantial
moritz down to 691 open rakudo tickets 19:12
ruoso later& 19:14
moritz what does infix fff do? 19:16
S03 says "sed style", but I don't know sed
TimToady the difference is whether you check again on the same entry, or wait till the next time
sorear good * #perl6 19:17
TimToady with the one it's possible to go true and then false again on one entry
colomon o/
moritz "on one entry"?
TimToady one call to ff or fff 19:18
kshannon nom doesn't seem to have fff :( 19:21
TimToady niecza: for 1..10 { if $_ == 4 fff $_ == 4 { .say } }
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
TimToady niecza: for 1..10 { if $_ == 4 ff $_ == 4 { .say } }
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«4␤»
TimToady that's the difference
moritz so... fff always checks the left and right side and xors, whereas ff only checks one side?
TimToady it's not xor
niecza: for 1..10 { if $_ == 4 fff $_ == 5 { .say } } 19:22
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«4␤5␤»
TimToady note you still get the 5
the right side says whether it flips state *after* this time
the only difference is when it starts checking the right side
think of it in terms of line number ranges
if you want 4..5 then it includes line 5 19:23
sorear EOBACKLOG
TimToady usually you want ff semantics, so it's the shorter one 19:24
same in p5 with .. vs ... 19:25
19:39 GlitchMr joined
GlitchMr bash-3.1$ echo {P,p}{{erl,hp},ython} 19:39
phenny GlitchMr: 25 Dec 21:22Z <tadzik> tell GlitchMr you should've tried qwebirc on a Kindle ;)
GlitchMr Perl Php Python perl php python
I still don't understand...
wait...
:P
That's serious delay :P.
Whatever. 19:40
(I guess it's because I haven't said anything since then...)
colomon right 19:46
GlitchMr Personally, I like Perl because of good documentation :). 19:49
19:49 thou left
GlitchMr Compare: search.cpan.org/~makamaka/Text-CSV-...ext/CSV.pm 19:49
and: docs.python.org/library/csv.html
And that isn't core module... :P
perldoc.perl.org/CGI.html :P
docs.python.org/library/cgi.html 19:50
And this
moritz nom: sub t($c, @a) { my $r = ''; for @a { $r ~= $c($_) ?? $_ !! 'x' } }; say t { /B/ ff /D/ }, <A B C D E F>; 19:56
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in method Bool at src/gen/CORE.setting:7239␤ in sub infix:<ff> at src/gen/CORE.setting:8502␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/v4klOM4CwO:1␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/v4klOM4CwO:1␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:…
moritz nom: sub t($c, @a) { my $r = ''; for @a { $r ~= $c($_) ?? $_ !! 'x' } }; say t { .say; /B/ ff /D/ }, <A B C D E F>;
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«A␤Method 'match' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in method Bool at src/gen/CORE.setting:7239␤ in sub infix:<ff> at src/gen/CORE.setting:8502␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/J7zrdkZXIC:1␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/J7zrdkZXIC:1␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.settin…
moritz nom: sub t($c, @a) { my $r = ''; for @a { $r ~= $c($_) ?? $_ !! 'x' } }; say t { .say; /B/ ff True }, <A B C D E F>;
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«A␤Method 'match' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in method Bool at src/gen/CORE.setting:7239␤ in sub infix:<ff> at src/gen/CORE.setting:8502␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/eT4SzDlv3M:1␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/eT4SzDlv3M:1␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.settin…
moritz hurm 19:57
somehow the /B/ match doesn't get the right $_, even though .say sees it
or any other idea what might be wrong here?
GlitchMr ff?
moritz GlitchMr: flip flop. See S03 19:58
GlitchMr Some Perl 6 operators are weird for me... whatever :).
It gives flexibility... 19:59
19:59 thou joined
GlitchMr @a >>>>> $b 20:00
... ok...
moritz nom: sub t($c, @a) { my $r = ''; for @a { $r ~= $c($_) ?? $_ !! 'x' } }; say t { .say; /B/ || True }, <A B C D E F>;
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«A␤B␤C␤D␤E␤F␤ABCDEF ABCDEF ABCDEF ABCDEF ABCDEF ABCDEF␤»
moritz nom: sub t($c, @a) { my $r = ''; for @a { $r ~= $c($_) ?? $_ !! 'x' }; $r }; say t { .say; /B/ || True }, <A B C D E F>; 20:01
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«A␤B␤C␤D␤E␤F␤ABCDEF␤»
moritz nom: sub t($c, @a) { my $r = ''; for @a { $r ~= $c($_) ?? $_ !! 'x' }; $r }; say t { .say; /B/ ff True }, <A B C D E F>;
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«A␤Method 'match' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in method Bool at src/gen/CORE.setting:7239␤ in sub infix:<ff> at src/gen/CORE.setting:8502␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/v2G_Y9mp9n:1␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/v2G_Y9mp9n:1␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.settin…
GlitchMr But seriously, who will use so many operators... many of those have limited usage...
sorear std: sub foo(Any ::T $x) { } 20:03
p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $x is declared but not used at /tmp/7Ds6nAqqgA line 1:␤------> sub foo(Any ::T ⏏$x) { }␤ok 00:01 121m␤»
sorear rakudo: sub foo(Any ::T $x) { }
p6eval rakudo 327fc9: ( no output )
moritz GlitchMr: www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aperl...+flip+flop # lots of people do
nom: $_ = 'a'; /a/ ff /a/; 20:04
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in method Bool at src/gen/CORE.setting:7239␤ in sub infix:<ff> at src/gen/CORE.setting:8502␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/YknKE09sGg:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/YknKE09sGg:1␤»
sorear Perl 6 has been described as an operator-oriented language
moritz nom: $_ = 'a'; /a/ || /a/;
p6eval nom 327fc9: ( no output )
moritz submits rakudobug 20:05
sorear nom: $_ = 'a'; m/a/ ff m/a/
p6eval nom 327fc9: ( no output )
sorear I think I see the problem
moritz sorear: what is it? 20:06
ah, probably the sub infix:<ff>($a as Bool, $b as Bool) 20:07
sorear moritz: 'ff' is probably calling a helper sub, which calls .Bool on the arguments ... but $_ doesn't exist in the helper sub
moritz tries to coerce the regex to Bool, but no $_ present anymore 20:08
sorear nom: (say 1) ff (say 2)
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
sorear niecza: (say 1) ff (say 2)
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
sorear niecza: (say 1; False) ff (say 2)
moritz niecza: $_ = 'a'; /a/ ff /a/
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«Rebuild in progress␤»
sorear niecza: (say 1; False) ff (say 2) 20:09
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«1␤»
sorear nom: (say 1; False) ff (say 2)
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
sorear std: my $x (5); 20:10
p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
moritz what is that? 20:11
a sub-signature?
sorear yes 20:13
why are sub-signatures allowed on variable_declarators? 20:14
moritz nom: my $x (6)
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 1, near "my $x (6)"␤»
moritz sorear: probaby just an omission
sorear Not a comission?
moritz rakudo: $a = (my $a) 20:23
p6eval rakudo 327fc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $a is not predeclared at line 1, near " = (my $a)"␤»
Woodi started to like ff :)
tadzik you see? :) Not that bad after all 20:24
Woodi is there a multi-stage ff maybe ? :)
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Woodi tadzik: found nice tutorial :) www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=525392 20:25
eg. /^start/ ff /^level 1/ ff [more levels] ff /^end/ # ? 20:27
sorear well, you need to use p6regex syntax there ... /^ 'level 1' / 20:28
moritz Woodi: and what would that do?
Woodi eg. parse area file for mud :) 20:29
[ff] [/^ 'start' ], ..., /^ 'end' /] ?
MUD like Diku or ROM :) 20:30
something like that wont keep 0/1 state but rather keep state of actual matcher 20:32
hmm, then branching can be added :) so probably should be called 'module Graph' or 'Automata' :) 20:34
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[Coke] 815 test failures in spectest on niecza. 21:08
masak: (be liberal in what you accept) - no. that way lies madness. 21:09
21:12 thou left 21:13 shinobicl___ left
sorear bah 21:20
dalek ecza: 45ad814 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
Make signature-setting system a bit more flexible
ecza: fc233bd | sorear++ | src/ (6 files):
Mergeback; add some new Sig fields
sorear [Coke]: got a list of failing files? 21:26
colomon woah, 815?! 21:27
[Coke] sorear: it was from test_summary; doing an update and a regular spectest to see what's what.
sorear integration/advent2009-day14 has some tests that are just plain wrong 21:28
like testing that the result of 1/60000 + 1/60001 is a Num
21:28 yath left
[Coke] ... and that just finished with a single failure in t/spec/S02-types/parcel.t (#14) 21:28
21:28 yath joined
[Coke] will rerun that test summary output. 21:29
sorry about the false alarm. :P
21:29 spine left
colomon sorear: that reminds me, I was thinking we might want to add a FatRat.t module. :) 21:30
masak [Coke]: I'd be interested to hear more about that. to me, that's the raison d'être for Cool -- we want the strictness of a type system but also the flexibility and promiscuous punning of the Perl 5 core types. 21:32
sorear rakudo: sub foo ($x (1) (2)) { } 21:33
p6eval rakudo 327fc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot have more than one sub-signature for a parameter at line 1, near ") { }"␤»
[Coke] masak: ah, but if Cool is spec'd, then you can still be strict. 21:34
I'm referring to the madness of, say, HTML.
21:36 birdwindupbird left
masak [Coke]: ah, you see, my quote was to be taken in context. 21:37
:)
I was going to give an explanation of why HTML turned out to be so bad. but I can't actually envision a way in which it could've turned out better... :) 21:38
browsers all had an evolutionary advantage from being liberal with tag soup. 21:39
doy well, that's the problem
"be liberal in what you accept" makes your software in particular a lot better 21:40
masak and the web probably wouldn't have been as successful as it is today if it weren't for the liberalness.
doy it just makes things as a whole worse
masak so you're saying it's a zero-sum game between your software and... everything else? :) 21:41
doy i'm saying it's a tragedy of the commons type situation 21:43
(:
masak the more I develop, the more I find I want my applications to fail fast during development, yet be very robust during production. 21:47
and I find that the former leads to the latter.
sorear ==masak 21:48
masak but it's a challenge to teach novices that both sides of the coin are necessary :)
sorear it's useful to have switches available to control robustness
-Werror and use warnings ':FATAL' are both awesome but shouldn't appear in shipped code 21:49
masak actually, the kind of robustness needed during production still doesn't mean "ignore errors", it just means that the program no longer pretends that the user and the developer are the same person.
so it should smile at the user and scream at the developer :P
jnthn back from dinner and beer 21:50
sorear o/ jnthn
masak jnthn! \o/
jnthn masak! \o/
d'y know, I just had a nice stout in Malmoe ;)
masak hey, me too! :) 21:51
jnthn ooh, I can type Malmö now :)
masak that's better.
sorear mäsak, too?
jnthn yäs. 21:52
sorear silly freenode not allowing utf-8 nicks
anyways, jnthn, I was thinking about the "but" issue
if we're going to allow things like $obj does (EXPR)($arg), then it's not really possible to improve on AST munging 21:53
the nextterm solution would most likely restrict us to the identifier case, which I think would be Bad 21:54
in particular I'm thinking of $obj does func($arg)($role-arg) ; you can't know where the role ends and the argument begins without using EXPR in some way
jnthn Well, it'd have to be more than the identifier case anyway, since you can supply a list of roles to compose 21:55
I've *no* idea how you'd initialize an attribute of them in that case though...
21:56 PacoAir left
masak I don't think I would've preferred "mäsak". "masak" feels like my online identity, "mäsak" feels like my last name and the way someone would address me in military service... :) 21:56
moritz++ # ticket triaging 21:58
fsergot nom: say (1,2) Z (3,4) Z (5,6); 22:01
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«1 3 5 2 4 6␤»
fsergot nom: say (1,2) X (3,4) X (5,6);
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«1 3 5 1 3 6 1 4 5 1 4 6 2 3 5 2 3 6 2 4 5 2 4 6␤»
22:02 mj41 left
colomon niecza: say (1,2) Z (3,4) Z (5,6); 22:07
p6eval niecza v13-149-gbf6b78c: OUTPUT«1 3 5 2 4 6␤»
22:09 az5112 joined 22:13 Kharec joined
Kharec hi there 22:13
Kharec is a new perl6 adept :)
tadzik hello Kharec ! 22:14
Kharec I'm building my rakudo for squeeze :)
masak hi Kharec! 22:16
az5112 "1" + "1" = 2; "1" div "1" CHECK FAILED Calling 'infix:<div>' will never work with argument types (str, str) (line 1) 22:17
Is this by design? Why + works and div does not?
(rakudo)
Kharec masak: hi
masak az5112: div only works on specific types, for example Int/Int. 22:19
jnthn I think the spec has some language on that too.
Kharec maybe you can convert your str as int?
masak az5112: whereas the usual + - * / tend to coerce to Numeric first. 22:20
Kharec hasn't wrote any line of perl6 right now. I'm about to learn it.
jnthn Yes, just do .Int on it
S03 says "Not coercive" for div
az5112 OK, I was expecting all operators would do type coercion.
jnthn Which suggests Rakudo is doing what the spec says here
az5112 Ok, just checking :) 22:21
And what is the best way to turn a string to an int (I multiplied by 1)
Woodi Kharec: you know Perl5 ?
tadzik nom: say "55".Int.perl
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«55␤»
tadzik az5112: ^
az5112 tadzik: thanks 22:22
Kharec Woodi: Yes! I'm writing C, perl5 and python3 code 22:23
and a bit of C++
Woodi so you will have no start problems with Perl6 :) 22:24
Kharec I hope so, thanks :)
Woodi btw. why you just today want P6 ? :) 22:25
Kharec It seems to be a very powerful and beautiful language :)
It's not for professional purposes. 22:26
Woodi good :) so you can hobbystic help in development :)
masak nom: say (+"55").^name 22:27
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«Int␤»
masak az5112: that's another way.
az5112: prefix:<+> "numifies", but it does it in quite a smart way and finds the narrowes type that'll fit.
Kharec Woodi: maybe. I've got a lot of job in dev yet, i'm a mageia contributor
Woodi Kharec: the central point of perl6 is documentation/specyfication. you can check it at perl6.org 22:28
masak Kharec: Perl 6 is indeed powerful and beautiful. I don't think that much about it any more, except when I switch over to other languages :P
Woodi and ask here too
Kharec ok! Is there a complete PDF to learn it correctly? 22:29
Woodi the enciclopedia size html pages :)
22:29 fsergot left
x3nU there's book github.com/perl6/book/ 22:30
az5112 masak: I first tried Int $aa and int $a (thought I say it somewhere on the web) but that did not work. "1".Int looks quite elegant.
x3nU and synopsis
perlcabal.org/syn/
masak az5112: 'Int $a' used to be the way you did casting. it's deprecated. 22:31
Kharec thanks all!
good night!
22:31 Kharec left
masak phenny: tell Kharec may I humbly recommend strangelyconsistent.org/blog/june-1...and-output for learning Perl 6? all of the posts can be found at strangelyconsistent.org/blog/list-of-posts 22:32
phenny masak: I'll pass that on when Kharec is around.
masak man, I need to build an index of those posts :)
or even, *shudder*, a category system...
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fsergot How can I calculata an expression contained in string? 22:52
e.g. "2+2"
tadzik either write an expression parser, or use eval :)
Woodi 2GB is to small to compile rakudo ?? 22:53
tadzik shouldn't be
close your web browser though :)
fsergot tadzik, would You like to show me how do it using eval? :) 22:54
tadzik nom: say eval "2+2" 22:55
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«4␤»
tadzik that way I guess :)
fsergot nom: my $expr = "2+2; say eval $expr;
Woodi I compile remote, free 1500+ MB, OpenBSD 22:56
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 1, near "my $expr ="␤»
fsergot ehh
jnthn missing @
er
fsergot nom: my $expr = "2+2"; say eval $expr;
jnthn missing "
p6eval nom 327fc9: OUTPUT«4␤»
sorear isn't the rakudo build around 3GB now?
tadzik is it?
jnthn Not heard anybody give that kind of figure
sorear dunno, I try to avoid building rakudo ... 22:57
tadzik moritz was saying something about 1.8 some time ago
22:57 pochi left
jnthn tadzik: Sounds more like it, for 64-bit. 22:58
Woodi is such amount of memory realy necessary ?
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jnthn Woodi: At the moment, that's what building Rakudo needs. I'll be less in the future. 22:59
Woodi jnthn: you stated actual state :) 23:00
23:00 thou joined
Woodi but I say 'OK', becouse no idea how to help 23:01
jnthn er, it'll be less...
Woodi: Well, some of the top ROADMAP items will help. Beyond that I probably need to hack up a memory profiler to understand the usage better. 23:02
Woodi jnthn: I hoped about some magic-build-time-split-output trick... 23:05
jnthn Woodi: I'd rather spend my time solving the real underlying issues. If Rakudo can't reasonably compile an amount of code the size of the setting without needing tricks, that's a problem. 23:06
Woodi anyway two more notes from openbsd try: nqp test with parrot optimized failed on bigint test and something openbsd-security specific: pastebin.com/CrGXUQSW 23:08
no chance some Makefile-lvl changes can change mem usage ?
tadzik maybe if you remove --optimize=3? 23:09
jnthn Woodi: no
Woodi tadzik: you saying about mem or bigint ? :) 23:10
tadzik Woodi: mem
jnthn Woodi: (openbsd-security) if those functions are suitably portable, patches to switch to them are fine 23:11
Woodi jnthn: at least two of them are strict openbsd. probably pragmas/macros in C code needed 23:12
jnthn ah
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Woodi I will try to look closer on that strlcpy/strlcat tomorow. 23:14
but now good night ppl 23:15
tadzik g'night
jnthn 'night, Woodi
23:16 Salaysia left
sorear I'm not calling Perl 6 production-ready until it's possible to compile and load 100,000 lines of code in <256 MB of memory in 5 minutes or less 23:20
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masak a reasonable goal, I think. 23:22
sorear: what's the memory consumption and total time right now? 23:26
sorear masak: I haven't tried on anything quite that large yet ... STD.pm6 (~6500 loc) takes just under a minute with about 300MB 23:27
actually it's probably more like 1.5 minutes now, compiler speed has regressed a bit and I'm not sure why :|
(niecza)
masak so... 6.5 kLOC in 1.5 minutes. that would make 100 kLOC take 23 minutes. 23:32
23:32 az5112 left
masak so a 5x speedup would be required. 23:32
23:33 Mowah left
masak I wouldn't mind a page like perl6.org/compilers/features but for these kinds of numbers, and goals. 23:34
23:36 wolfman2000 left 23:39 ponbiki left
colomon sorear: have you looked at implementing parsing portion of the <2/3> change? right now it's causing failures in rat.t and complex.t. 23:44
dalek ecza: 323ddd3 | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
Implement parser/translation for sub-signatures and where
 23:45
ecza: 29d510e | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
Refactor binder to allow binding standalone signatures
sorear colomon: what parsing portion?
colomon niecza: say <2/3>
p6eval niecza v13-152-gfc233bd: OUTPUT«2/3␤»
23:46 thou left
colomon niecza: say <2/3>.WHAT 23:46
p6eval niecza v13-152-gfc233bd: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
sorear colomon: Why are you inserting <2/3> into the source code?
colomon I'm not. But the number tests check if you can eval the output of .perl and get the same thing
sorear oh, rat.t is using eval :(
colomon and right now, you can't in niecza
sorear rakudo: say <2/3>.perl 23:47
colomon fudging it isn't a major issue, mind you
p6eval rakudo 327fc9: OUTPUT«"2/3"␤»
sorear I'll get on that later ... it depends on val() and constant folding, but I think i have those mostly figured out
colomon sorear++ 23:48
sorear constant folding because I really don't want to make for <a b c> { ... } any slowe
23:50 ksi left
sorear rakudo: sub foo(2) {}; foo(3) 23:52
p6eval rakudo 327fc9: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter ''␤ in sub foo at /tmp/luUHmnf87I:1␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/luUHmnf87I:1␤ in <anon> at /tmp/luUHmnf87I:1␤»

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