»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
00:15 lestrrat left 00:16 lestrrat joined 00:20 replore joined
sorear good * #perl 00:22
6
TimToady happy tax day 00:23
colomon o/ 00:29
sorear o/ 00:32
01:04 szbalint joined 01:16 wolfman2000 joined 01:18 zhutingting joined 01:24 vlixes left 01:28 scott___ joined
[Coke]_ jnthn++ moritz++ doing all the hard work on the release announcements. ;) 01:30
01:31 [Coke] left, [Coke]_ is now known as [Coke] 01:33 tadzik joined 01:36 scott___ left, scott_ joined 01:37 scott_ is now known as Guest32155 01:39 liuchong joined 01:58 Guest32155 left 01:59 scott___ joined 02:01 whiteknight left 02:03 scott___ left
[Coke] was interested to see www.warrenellis.com/?p=13931 re: markdown 02:03
02:06 tokuhirom left, thou left, scott___ joined 02:17 vlixes joined 02:21 scott___ left 02:23 samlh joined 02:28 scott___ joined
samlh So, I was wondering whether there is a way for a function to accept a LoL other than a **@foo argument. Actually, I'm not sure how LoL stuff is supposed to work in general. 02:29
[Coke] sighs, as he has to revert some of his pugs patches from earlier this week. 02:30
seen dalek? 02:31
aloha dalek was last seen in #perl6 12 hours 38 mins ago saying "roast: review: github.com/perl6/roast/commit/84b3895ce1".
02:37 scott___ left, scott_ joined 02:38 scott_ is now known as Guest47433
sorear Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at modules/irc/seen.pm line 173. 02:38
p6eval@feather3:~/dalek$
freenode << :sjn!~nn@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #perl6 :!seen pmichaud
sjn--
02:39 dalek joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v dalek 02:40 uvtc joined 02:42 Guest47433 left 02:50 scott___ joined 02:52 cognominal joined, cognominal_ left
uvtc [Coke], Markdown is quite nice. Well, it's spoiled *me* anyway. :) 02:53
02:54 scott___ left 02:55 rking joined 02:59 orafu left, orafu joined, scott___ joined 03:03 scott___ left 03:10 scott___ joined 03:15 scott___ left 03:20 scott___ joined 03:25 scott___ left 03:26 cognominal left 03:27 samlh left 03:28 cognominal joined 03:29 scott___ joined
zhutingting what [ ] mean in p6 regex? like ( )? 03:35
like ( ) but not catch in $\ ？
benabik I think [] is non-capturing ()
zhutingting yeah thx~ 03:36
sorear [] is the same as (?:) used to be 03:38
03:41 replore left 03:45 cognominal left 03:46 cognominal joined, derrazo left, samlh joined, scott___ left, scott_ joined 03:47 scott_ is now known as Guest24250 03:51 bbkr_ joined, att_ joined, att_ left 03:52 att left, bbkr left
[Coke] sorear: I don't understand your negative karma there. 03:54
03:56 scott___ joined 03:57 Guest24250 left
sorear sjn crashed dalek 03:57
diakopter o_O 03:58
04:02 thou joined 04:04 envi_ left
samlh I've made some notes from reading list specs and tinkering with Rakudo. I'd appreciate any comments :). gist.github.com/2411012 04:27
TimToady reifying immutable lists can also cache reified values, they're just not writeable; in fact, we rely on this for constant lazy lists 04:33
esp recursively defined ones (though aspects of that remain unimplemented) 04:34
04:37 scott___ left, scott_ joined, wolfman2000 left 04:38 scott_ is now known as Guest79903
samlh r: my @a = 1,2,3; @a[3]; say @a.DUMP; say @a.perl 04:46
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«Array<712166686>(:items(RPA<705579559>(▶1, ▶2, ▶3)), :nextiter(▶Mu))␤Array.new(1, 2, 3)␤»
samlh r: say [1,2,3].DUMP; say [1,2,3].perl
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«Array<1143850692>(:items(RPA<1143834356>(▶1, ▶2, ▶3)), :nextiter(▶Mu))␤[1, 2, 3]␤»
samlh How does it know which is which in .perl? 04:47
Is there a flatten flag? 04:49
TimToady it's probably wrapped in a 'Scalar of' or some such 04:50
samlh TimToady: Ah, thank you. 04:51
TimToady r: my @a = 1,2,3; my $a = @a; say $a.perl
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
04:52 araujo left
samlh r: my $a := 1,(2,3); for @$a {.say}; $a.tree.perl.say 04:56
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤(1, [2, 3]).list␤»
samlh TimToady: reifying immutable lists should stay hidden, that is the above should continue to work despite the reification behind the scenes? 04:58
05:03 replore_ joined
TimToady it would seem to be working right there 05:10
samlh TimToady: yes. So, the cache, if any, must remain invisible? 05:11
05:11 Timbus joined
TimToady the cache belongs to the @, not to the $a 05:12
$a is just an immutable parcel
samlh r: my @a := 1,(2,3); for @a {.say}; @a.tree.perl.say 05:13
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤(1, [2, 3]).list␤»
TimToady if the parcel caches, it shouldn't assume anything about flattening
samlh r: my @a = 1,(2,3); for @a {.say}; @a.tree.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤(1, 2, 3).list␤»
TimToady list assignment flattens 05:14
samlh r: constant @a = 1,(2,3); for @a {.say}; @a.tree.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤(1, [2, 3]).list␤»
TimToady pseudo-assignment for initialization tends to be more like binding 05:15
but arguably that should flatten anyway
samlh Ah, so that is how you are supposed to be able to get an immutable, but cached, list. 05:16
r: constant @a = 1,(2,3); @a.tree.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«(1, [2, 3]).list␤»
samlh What about this? Should this flatten too?
TimToady I'm inclined to think so
especially since one could use := to mean the other thing 05:17
samlh Ok, makes sense. Thanks!
TimToady and flattening is more useful for a lot of sequence definitions
samlh r: constant @a = 1,(2..*); @a.tree.perl.say 05:18
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
samlh r: my @a := 1,(2..*); @a.tree.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady I'm still hopeful to get the hamming sequence to work right: 05:19
constant @hamming = 1, dedup (@hamming X* 2) M (@hamming X* 3) M (@hamming X* 5);
samlh Ah well, I think I understand the goal a little better now, I'll try updating my notes now. :) 05:20
TimToady if that doesn't flatten, the dedup will return a single parcel that subverts the process
05:20 spaceships left
TimToady at the same time, the = must be understood as definition, so that @hamming refers to the same abstraction on both sides 05:21
no good replacing a pointer like := does
samlh So constant @a = does list assignment that guarantees laziness, but @a cannot be written to 05:22
TimToady yes, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it
samlh Gotcha 05:23
05:26 scott_ joined, Guest79903 left, scott_ is now known as Guest72026 05:28 mikemol joined 05:31 kaleem joined 05:35 raiph left 05:45 mucker joined 05:46 uvtc left 05:53 NamelessTee joined
samlh r: constant @a = 1,@a; @a.DUMP.say 05:58
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable @a is not declared␤at /tmp/tgU3GkFWsR:1␤»
samlh r: my @a = 1; @a.push(@a); @a.DUMP.say
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«Array<-666740515>(:items(RPA<-662546955>(▶1, ▶1)), :nextiter(▶Mu))␤»
06:06 wtw joined 06:07 vlixes left 06:08 tarch joined 06:09 tarch left 06:13 birdwindupbird joined 06:15 lestrrat left 06:16 lestrrat joined 06:19 cognominal left 06:21 cognominal joined, replore_ left 06:30 bbkr joined, bbkr_ left 06:46 kaleem left 06:48 cognominal left 06:49 cognominal joined 06:50 kaleem joined
sjn oh my, I crashed dalek? 06:54
sorry about that :-/
07:04 zhutingting left 07:05 brrt joined 07:16 kaleem left 07:19 kaleem joined
dalek p: 1b1106c | moritz++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
bump parrot revision to 4.3.0
 07:26
07:27 NamelessTee left 07:30 fglock_ joined 07:32 kaleem left 07:35 stepnem joined 07:36 araujo joined, araujo left, araujo joined 07:44 kaleem joined 07:49 stepnem left 07:53 stepnem joined 08:02 stepnem left
masak o/, #perl6 08:02
08:04 daxim joined, stepnem joined, jferrero joined
moritz \o masak 08:05
08:10 stepnem left 08:13 stepnem joined
masak <jnthn> ooh, my French Perl Workshop talk got accepted. Now I've gotta go! 08:19
<eiro> sure: i did it to be sure you'll join us :)
masak .oO( "we didn't care much for the talks themselves..." ) :P
bonsaikitten masak: conferences are all about beer and food 08:20
the rest is just bonus features
masak yes, but eiro is one of the organizers. aren't they expected to keep up appearances? :) 08:24
bonsaikitten ... why? :) 08:27
masak I am unable to think up an answer to that question, even a funny one. 08:34
organizers: it's OK! you can drop all pretenses! we're just in it for the beer and food, and you're just in it for the speakers!
bonsaikitten hey, that's the greatest idea I've heard this week 08:36
The Ultimate Geek Grill And Beer Festival (without any other distractions)
masak you sign up as a speaker, but you arrive with a thirst and barbecue cutlery. 08:39
daxim eat the audience! 08:40
bodhidarma advises: when you meet the b33r on the conference, drink it. 08:41
masak .oO( there's a whole audience at steak here! ) 08:42
daxim *groan* 08:43
08:44 zhutingting joined
zhutingting r: sub infix:<mean> ($a, $b) { ($a + $b) / 2 } $a mean $b; 08:46
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/cwiOlFX3Gy:1␤»
zhutingting perl6: sub infix:<mean> ($a, $b) { ($a + $b) / 2 } $a mean $b;
p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/mH2H65Qkqv line 1:␤------> infix:<mean> ($a, $b) { ($a + $b) / 2 }⏏ $a mean $b;␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Undeclared variable: ("$a",MkPad (padToList [("$_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Scalar"), pe_proto = <Scalar:0xf6df7289>, pe_flags = MkEntryFlags {ef_isContext = True}, pe_store = <ref:0xf6df8e1d>}),("@_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Array"), pe_proto = <Array:0xf6df7…
..rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/ofPWHl96AX:1␤»
zhutingting how to code infix? 08:47
08:47 dakkar joined
zhutingting perl6: sub infix:<mean> ($a, $b) { ($a + $b) / 2 } say 2 mean 4; 08:49
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«3␤»
..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/GdHnDfpjv6 line 1:␤------> infix:<mean> ($a, $b) { ($a + $b) / 2 }⏏ say 2 mean 4;␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
..rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/bt_irURYAh:1␤»
sjn code.foo.no/2012/04/18/coding-dojos 08:51
jnthn Hey, this geek beer and grill thing sounds like a good idea... 08:53
I mean, er, morning #perl6
:)
gfldex geek beer like in www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/08/...eers/all/1 ? 08:55
jnthn ooh 08:57
bonsaikitten gfldex: that looks like hipster beer
ice from the antarctic? 08:58
daxim I participated in a coding dojo. that's programming by committee. it was awful
bonsaikitten likes a boring Rochefort 10 ... :)
jnthn Tssk, it's 11am and that page has made me want beer :P
jnthn tries to forget about it and get on with $dayjob 08:59
gfldex so you are blaming the internet for wanting beer now?
bonsaikitten jnthn: and that's a problem why?
gfldex jnthn: you sound a little like a politican now 09:00
jnthn bonsaikitten: Hmm, good question... :) 09:01
heh..."Polygamy Porter (Why have just one?)" 09:02
jnthn notes all of the ones on that page are from the US, and ponders whether Europe has similarly geeky beers
bonsaikitten jnthn: yes 09:03
there's even Open Source Beer, where you get the full recipe ...
09:15 noam left, noam joined
fglock_ good morning #perl6 .oO( I'm up for the grill && beer ) 09:27
sjn jnthn: just fyi, I've organized so you and masak and pmichaud can have a meeting room at RL to work in on Friday 09:29
jnthn: it'll be available all day, from 09:00 to 17:00
jnthn: damian will be giving a class next door too
09:31 d4l3k_ joined 09:33 dalek left, d4l3k_ is now known as dalek
jnthn sjn: Oh, wonderful! 09:34
sjn: Thanks for thinking to do that.
09:35 zhutingting left
masak sjn++! 09:39
tadzik nice :) 09:40
phenny tadzik: 17 Apr 22:43Z <uvtc> tell tadzik Oh, I had the "name" field in the META.info file wrong --- it's supposed to be a module name, not the project name. Corrected.
masak tadzik! \o/
tadzik \o/ 09:48
we're arriving with fsergot on some crazy hour friday morning
I'll have to visit my office, then I have to do some geocaching and I can hack from that time on :) 09:53
10:06 Guest72026 left
masak decommutes 10:08
samlh gist updated with my understanding of iteration might work :). again, comments welcome gist.github.com/2411012 10:28
10:29 thou left
samlh *of how 10:29
10:29 xinming_ joined 10:32 xinming left 10:37 NamelessTee joined 10:47 fgomez left 10:48 fgomez joined, birdwindupbird left 10:49 birdwindupbird joined, fgomez left 10:50 fgomez joined 11:11 brrt left 11:22 pernatiy joined 11:23 mucker left
masak samlh: interesting. 11:26
11:31 lichtkind joined
lichtkind moin 11:32
moritz: can you tell me please how often the cron runs?
moritz lichtkind: once per hour 11:33
lichtkind moritz: very good 11:34
moritz: after the next run please to the cleanup all files have their supposed final name just have to adapt some links 11:35
but the github but doesnt seemed to work yesterday
moritz lichtkind: I have trouble deciphering what you write. Could you please be more careful? 11:36
what is the "github but"?
lichtkind i meant bot sorry 11:37
i do a commit in 2 min then we wills ee
see
moritz 2 minutes passed, no commit reported 11:40
masak .oO( The Github Butt is the ugly part of Github, but fortunately it's facing away from you while you're talking to Github )
lichtkind moritz: it was just 1 min :) 11:42
dalek blets: ec38a21 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/index.txt:
updated toc(is index now) links to other tablets
 11:44
lichtkind oh
what was going on yesterday
11:45 lichtkind left
moritz dalek had an outage 11:46
masak better than a dalek having an outrage. 11:48
11:51 brrt joined
dalek blets: 11b7eed | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
added dummy for glossary
 11:53
blets: b599a0b | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/styles.css:
changed placeholder to a more passive color
11:53 lichtkind joined
dalek blets: 7cb006a | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/introduction.txt:
updated history a bit
 11:58
lichtkind masak: se were funny today?
12:01 FACEFOX left 12:03 facefox3 joined
masak yeah. sorry to butt in like that. 12:04
lichtkind i have not the impression you sorry is serious 12:05
masak if you are truly miffed and require an apology, you have it. sorry. 12:06
lichtkind just trying be funny myself
masak phew :) 12:07
when I get challenged like that, I try to be safe and apologise, so as not to make things worse. online communication is narrow-banded and brittle. 12:08
12:08 bluescreen10 joined 12:09 ponbiki joined
masak also, we all have bad days when we prefer not to be the butt of someone else's wordplay :) 12:11
frettled :) 12:12
lichtkind tables are so much easier in markdown 12:15
its almost worth the effort
tadzik are they? 12:16
they're awesome in Pod :)
moritz tadzik: I think lichtkind means "in comparison to the socialtext abomination"
tadzik oh, maybe :) 12:17
12:17 mucker joined
dalek blets: 0866ddf | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (12 files):
simplify and update most headings
 12:17
12:17 pernatiy left
lichtkind yes it was cruel 12:17
12:20 pernatiy joined, jaldhar left 12:21 att joined
dalek blets: f9966af | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/index.txt:
refining TOC
 12:22
12:26 liuchong left
dalek blets: a414666 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/index.txt:
explaining appendix B better
 12:27
lichtkind allright slowly we getting somewhere sane 12:28
later :)
masak o/
12:29 facefox joined 12:31 facefox3 left 12:32 brrt left 12:38 tokuhirom joined
dalek blets: 9e8d9e1 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (2 files):
fixing broken markdown and placeholder are visible again
 12:39
12:45 lichtkind left
Woodi allo 12:46
sjn: ping, you have new mail... 12:47
[Coke] sorear: sjn++ dalek-- 12:50
moritz indeed
jnthn Yeah. :!seen foo should not cause a crash. 12:51
moritz after all it's just a negated :seen :-) 12:52
12:53 kaleem left, kaleem joined 12:54 lestrrat left 12:55 lestrrat joined
masak :) 12:56
std: :!seen<pmichaud>
p6eval std 3d13d53: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Extra argument not allowed; pair already has False argument at /tmp/CyIrWkjSc0 line 1:␤------> :!seen⏏<pmichaud>␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 40m␤»
masak dang :)
12:56 kaleem left
masak good error message, though. 12:56
moritz r: :!seen<pmichaud>
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Argument not allowed on negated pair␤at /tmp/hM_B9k9mzb:1␤»
moritz r: try eval ':!seen<pmichaud>'; say $!.perl 12:57
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«X::Syntax::NegatedPair.new(filename => "eval_0", line => 1, column => Any)␤»
moritz can't resist showing off a bit
12:57 answer_42 joined
tadzik cool 12:58
12:59 brrt joined, PacoAir joined
masak moritz++ 13:00
13:00 pmurias joined
pmurias fglock: hi 13:00
$ node perlito5.js -e 1 13:01
Warning: Died: Can't find Perlito5/strict.pm in @INC
sjn Woodi: ook! 13:03
fglock_ pmurias: hi!
strict.pm is now a "real" module, you need to specify the path to the libs (see README-perlito5) 13:04
13:04 ponbiki left, benabik left
pmurias fglock_: thanks, that fixes the problem 13:05
fglock_ node perlito5.js -I./src5/lib -e 1
pmurias fglock_: but why is strict used here? ;)
fglock_ this will compile "package main; no strict; 1" 13:06
13:09 brrt left 13:10 fglock_ left 13:17 awwaiid joined 13:20 cognominal_ joined 13:22 mucker left 13:24 cognominal left 13:25 fhelmberger joined 13:29 cognominal joined, cognominal_ left 13:30 att left 13:35 preflex_ joined 13:36 preflex_ is now known as preflex 13:41 kaleem joined, fglock_ joined 13:42 att joined
pmurias fglock_: perl -Ilib5 perlito5.pl -Cjs src5/util/perlito5.pl > perlito5.js 13:46
Syntax Error in sub 'precedence_parse' at lib5/Perlito5/Grammar.pm line 1302.
13:46 envi_ joined
fglock_ looking (you need -I src5/lib before -Cjs) 13:47
adding -Isrc5/lib silences the error (still looking) 13:48
13:50 NamelessTee left 13:51 answer_42 left
fglock_ it may be an error while trying to 'use' a lib, it is failing to find an alternate interpretation and gives a "syntax error" :P 13:51
hmm, no - 'use' errors seem to work 13:53
pmurias fglock_: what are the $negate and $depends arguments to proclaim? 13:56
fglock_ I don't know; this file is a direct translation of svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/ext/Test/lib/Test.pm 13:59
pmurias I'm considering just copying over the p5 test.pl and adapting it for the missing features 14:00
fglock_ yes, that would be better 14:01
it can than be fixed in small steps
I'm getting 426 pass with the tweaked test.pl 14:02
14:04 spider-mario joined
pmurias fglock_: are you working on copying over the orginal test.pl or should i do that? 14:05
fglock_ please do
pmurias++ 14:06
pmurias ok 14:07
fglock_: none of the tests we ran currently use test.pl? 14:08
fglock_ you mean in t5, no - I'm running the perl test suite in t 14:09
and moving to t5 whatever works
14:11 kaleem left
fglock_ (t5 does use Test.pm though) 14:12
14:27 PacoAir left 14:28 fgomez left 14:31 colomon joined, fgomez joined 14:38 fgomez left 14:47 lichtkind joined 14:48 benabik joined 14:50 fsergot joined
fsergot Hi o/ 14:50
14:52 wooden joined
colomon \o 14:52
[Coke] phenny: tell au if you do add something for bless or anythign else, be sure to do a spectest first; I found some (to me) surprising) breakage, especially missing multi variants. 14:53
phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when au is around.
14:54 lichtkind left 14:59 kaleem joined 15:05 kaleem left 15:06 kaare_ joined 15:09 birdwindupbird left 15:10 wtw left, trexy joined 15:11 NamelessTee joined
pmurias fglock_: node perlito5.js -I./src5/lib -e 1 15:12
started throwing the can't find strict error again :/
fglock_ pmurias: maybe you are under t/ (check just in case) 15:14
it happened to me 15:15
15:17 lichtkind joined
pmurias git stashing everything helped 15:17
sjohnson git stash save 'my project' # i use all the time! 15:18
lichtkind moritz: would you please do now a reset?
moritz lichtkind: it's done on every cron job executiong 15:19
dalek blets: b07546b | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (3 files):
massive link repair
lichtkind moritz: you mean deleting all the old stuff? 15:20
moritz yes
15:50 ilogger2 joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v ilogger2
lichtkind moritz there was just an refresh and old html is still there 15:50
jnthn
.oO( I'm anschnur what he meant... )
 15:51
moritz lichtkind: now gone 15:52
lichtkind thank you 15:53
jnthn: ++++ that was great
15:54 Psyche^ joined, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 16:01 kaleem joined 16:08 uvtc joined
uvtc tadzik, ping 16:10
tadzik uvtc: pong
16:10 xinming joined
uvtc tadzik, Hi, I sent you a pile of emails last night. 16:10
Do you think that little guide for creating and distributing modules is still sensible after the minor additions I mentioned? 16:13
moritz uvtc: do you have commit access to modules.perl6.org?
uvtc hi moritz. Y'know, I used to. But no longer.
moritz uvtc: what's your github ID?
uvtc uvtc
But moritz,
Just wanted to briefly discuss something.
The topic of the Socialtext Perl 6 wiki has come up here before.
moritz nothing wrong with discussions, but now you have commit access too :-)
uvtc Oh, great. Thanks.
I've used the SocialText wiki a couple of times, but did not ever get back to it 16:14
tadzik uvtc: yeah, I saw them :) I'm just little fscked over with univesity stuff right now, expect my feedback tomorrow afternoon in the worst case
uvtc .
tadzik, Great, thanks.
moritz hates that wiki
lichtkind haha
uvtc is not crazy about it either. 16:15
lichtkind uvtc: klöng
uvtc Anyhow, I tried out gitit last night, and was pretty blown away.
lichtkind uvtc: by what?
uvtc: tablets.perl6.org/index.html have a look
it gets slowly in shape 16:16
ther was still so much broken
but i currently but ass of to fix it
uvtc lichtkind, (I see. Yes, it's looking good. Just a sec though, I want to finish this thouht.)
moritz uvtc: I wouldn't mind a migration, under the conditions that 1) I don't have to do it (I'm fine with installing software though), 2) we don't end up with two versions of the same stuff (ie the old wiki must go away) and 3) the URLs continue to work in some way (preferably redirects) 16:17
uvtc So, I just wanted to chime in (an initial chime I suppose), that gitit was pretty amazing. I started making a list of what I liked about it, but the list became probably too long to post here.
moritz under those conditions I would be very much in favor of such a migration, actually :-) 16:18
uvtc: how does gitit handle access control? 16:19
uvtc moritz, I'm not necessarily suggesting a migration... I don't have an easy way to convert content from one wiki to the other. I converted lichtkind's tablets primarily by-hand, but that was over the weekend, and I don't think I'll have that many tuits available for a while.
moritz ok
uvtc moritz, access control is simple --- I like it. For the account creation page, you can set a security question (and answer). If you set the answer to be something unguessable, then all you have to do is have interested parties email you for the unguessable answer. And you can of course change the unguessable answer at any time. :) 16:21
moritz that sounds like it's fine, as long as you don't need to scale 16:22
uvtc I've tried using various wiki's in the past. Gitit is the one. It's easy to run, easy to configure, stores each page as a file on disk ... (gah, I need to write a blog post about it). 16:23
16:23 thelazydeveloper joined
uvtc That's an interesting supposition. I'm curious how many folks end up contributing to wiki's. My hunch is that, at first, you'd get a flurry of a 10 or 20 people asking to register, but, 16:24
moritz my experience is that there are (nearly) no useful edits from outsiders 16:25
uvtc not sure, but I get the impression that, you end up over time with a core group who contributes to the wiki, and a slow trickle of membership requests after that.
moritz, That's what I'm getting it. That's why I think gitit's approach will work. 16:26
moritz uvtc: I don't think it's a problem of the underlying software or of the UI 16:28
uvtc Anyway, the setup looks easy. You just run gitit, and it has its own webserver (based on Haskell's happstack). It comes with instructions on what to add to your apache config to get mod_proxy to pass requests to it.
moritz uvtc: it's simply that outsiders usually don't have anything interesting to share, or don't care. If they care, they quickly cease to be outsiders
samlh lichtkind: I have some updates to the tablets
lichtkind: would you prefer a patch, a pull request, or something else? 16:29
moritz samlh: what's your github ID?
uvtc moritz, I think that's a good point about outsider ceasing to be outsiders.
samlh samlh
moritz samlh: you now have commit access, fwiw 16:30
16:30 mikemol joined
samlh moritz: ok, thanks! 16:30
uvtc Well, the long and the short of it about the wiki issue, I think, is this:
moritz to most of the repos in the perl6 organization, because we're too lazy for finer-graded access control :-)
uvtc * few here like or will use the socialtext wiki, * most here like Markdown pretty well, * gitit is only an apt-get away, and perhaps a few minutes of configuring to make look like a Perl 6 wiki (just replace the logo, change the wiki title in the config, and it's ready to roll), 16:32
It supports "subpages" nicely by just creating a directory behind the scenes and putting the page file in that directory.
Allows file uploads, supports math rendering
(moritz, math rendering worked out of the box for me) 16:33
(moritz, that is, you can write $x^2 + y^2$ and it works)
16:33 kaleem left
uvtc Syntax highlighting for Perl 5 works, but not Perl 6 --- it uses Kate's (the editor) filetype definitions for syntax highlighting. I don't think Perl 6 syntax highlighting would be too far off if someone were to have a look at it. 16:34
Anyway, sorry, I'll stop gushing. I'm just pretty enamored with it, given the other wiki's I've tried. 16:35
moritz chuckles briefly (re p6 syntax hilighting)
yes, sounds like somebody has found True Love
uvtc is singing it from the rooftops 16:36
16:37 Vlavv` joined
uvtc Getting around to a point though, regarding that "create & distribute modules" doc I wrote, if you set up the wiki, I could just add it there. 16:37
moritz or you could simply add the .html file to the modules.perl6.org repo 16:38
then it would be on the same domain
uvtc Regarding the domain, gitit comes with instructions on how to make wiki.perl6.org proxy to gitit...
Is this all on feather? Does feather run apache? 16:39
16:39 fglock joined
moritz thing is, I'm kinda reluctant to fragment the p6 doc space even more. If there are plans to move other stuff to the new wiki, that's fine. If there's a plan for one page, that's not too convincing 16:39
I should have said "on the same subdomain"
it's on feather2. And yes, apache2
though there's nothing to stop us from mod_proxy'ing to an installation on feather1 16:41
uvtc I can understand your reluctance. My hunch is that the opposite of fragmentation will happen. I think people will *like* using gitit a lot, and if there's a choice between, "oh, should I host this myself, or just put it on the Perl 6 gitit wiki", they'll go with the wiki. I know I would.
Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with the infrastructure. I don't know how many Perl 6 servers there are, or what runs on which. 16:42
moritz brief summary, because it might interest others too: Juerd++ has donated a box (feather0), on which three VMs (feather1,2,3) run
what we usually call "feather" around here is feather1. Any p6 hacker can get a shell account on it 16:43
and it runs perlcabal.org and a few other websites
feather2 is intended to be more secure, hosts *.perl6.org and hugme (because hugme has access tokens to several github accounts) 16:44
feather3 runs p6eval and try.rakudo.org (when it happens not to be down)
perl.org and perlfoundation.org are run on totally different machines by totally different people 16:45
uvtc (this is exactly something I'd take 2 minutes to put up somewhere on the gitit wiki. Also, I have no interest in editing the Socialtext wiki.)
moritz, thanks for that info! 16:46
benabik moritz++ # feather infodump 16:48
16:55 vlixes joined
uvtc moritz, here's some notes I was keeping, in case I were to write a blog post about gitit. They're just some sloppy notes: www.unexpected-vortices.com/doc-not...gitit.html 16:55
16:55 birdwindupbird joined, PacoAir joined, kaleem joined 17:19 ilogger2 joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v ilogger2 17:21 Chillance joined
arnsholt o/ 17:23
uvtc moritz, sorry, missed some of your comments before. You wrote "I just realized that this is a bad idea ...". I think it would be very rare for users to want direct access to files on the filesyst (ssh in, edit, use git directly). 17:26
s/filesyst/filesystem/ 17:27
moritz, It's the sort of thing that's there if you need it, but you generally won't ever need it for typical wiki editing.
17:29 thou_ joined 17:43 mucker joined, Moukeddar joined 17:47 bbkr1 joined 17:49 fsergot joined
fsergot o/ 17:49
17:52 thou_ left 17:55 thou joined
moritz uvtc: wiki.perl6.org/ 18:00
uvtc Oh yeah. :D 18:03
moritz, a couple of config items:
run `gitit --print-default-config > p6-wiki.conf` 18:04
benabik Looks like gitit is blatantly stealing^W^Wborrowing wikipedia's look.
eiro gitit \o/
fsergot \o/
eiro hello everybody 18:05
uvtc moritz, then edit a couple of items: 1, change wiki-title to "Perl 6 Wiki" or somesuch
2. change access-question to something like, "Answer to this security question?", and add a crazy string to access-question-answers. 18:08
Then quit gitit and restart it as `gitit -f p6-wiki.conf`
18:14 spider-mario joined
moritz for now I haven't used a terribly crazy question or answer 18:14
18:14 jaffa4 joined 18:17 spaceships joined
uvtc moritz, Next: grab this file www.unexpected-vortices.com/temp/logo.png and copy it to static/img 18:18
I resized it. Should work nicely.
moritz done 18:19
jaffa4 Hi 18:20
uvtc Nice!
samlh moritz: s/use use/you use/ ? 18:21
uvtc moritz, I think that, if you don't add an unguessable answer, then it's just going to generate work for you later. My 2 cents.
Account created!
benabik Unguessable isn't required. Not parsable by spambots is. 18:22
(IMHO)
Actual people generally don't spend much time adding spam. It generally only gets bad when a script can do it. 18:23
moritz any idea for a question and answer that's guessable only if you know Perl 6, but still has a pretty unique answer?
[Coke] FIRST!
uvtc Oh, you beat me to it! 18:24
jaffa4 moritz: who are you asking? 18:25
moritz jaffa4: everybody 18:26
jaffa4 Why are you asking?
benabik TIMTOWTDI makes "unique" a difficult part of that question. :-D 18:27
[Coke] jaffa4: check the backscroll.
moritz because I need such a question for protecting a wiki from spam
benabik: that's why i haven't found anything yet
maybe "which operator would you use to calculate the product of all items of a list?" 18:28
jaffa4 What is the name of most popular perl compiler?
benabik It could be a small piece of code with the output as answer. If the spambots are written in P6 then we're winning anyway. :-D
jaffa4: perl
jaffa4 What is the name of most popular perl 6 compiler?
jnthn "When will Perl 6 be done?" "Christmas" :)
[Coke] jnthn++ 18:29
jaffa4 You could say, it is already one, we are just extending it
18:29 facefox3 joined, facefox3 left
jaffa4 one-> done 18:29
18:31 facefox3 joined
tadzik o/ 18:32
uvtc moritz, I don't know much Perl 6 yet, but perhaps a "fill-in-the-blank", such as, "I never ___ I didn't like".
[Coke] metapunned? 18:34
tadzik :P
moritz has something now
uvtc (metaop) 18:35
18:36 Moukeddar left
masak #perl6! \o/ 18:39
18:40 havenn_ joined
moritz \o masak 18:41
18:41 birdwindupbird joined
tadzik \o/ 18:42
masak jaffa4: the name of the most popular Perl 6 compiler is "Rakudo". but having said that, I think Niecza deserves more popularity than it currently has, and I have thought so for almost a year now.
18:44 icwiener joined
uvtc Hi tadzik. I added the create and distribute modules page to [the new wiki](wiki.perl6.org). 18:46
tadzik oh, we have a new wiki?
uvtc :)
tadzik so cool
uvtc Ice cold.
tadzik are you going to Oslo, by any chance? 18:47
uvtc me?
tadzik aye
uvtc Added wiki.perl6.org/Server%20Infrastructure 18:48
18:48 thou left, goksie joined
uvtc Alas, no. I'm not employed at the moment, and so am not in a position to travel. Would love love to take my family there sometime though. Sounds lovely. 18:48
tadzik I hope you'll be joining us online at least :) 18:49
18:49 thou joined
uvtc tadzik, aw, thanks. :) Though, I don't yet know enough Perl 6 to be of much help at a hackathon. 18:50
tadzik that
'd be a good occasion :)
anyway, if you are eager to hack on modules stuff, we need every pair of hands :)
masak Perl 6 knowledge not a strict requirement! :D
tadzik I'd really like to bring emmentaller back to life
we _do_ need it, especially those days 18:51
and it was mostly perl 5 (back in the days when it worked)
jaffa4 How to iterate through a perl6 hash? 18:52
dalek blets: b0b04c8 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-b-grouped.txt:
repair mardown tables
lichtkind jaffa4: you meant through all pairs or keys? 18:53
jaffa4 all pars.
lichtkind for (@(%h)) { }
for pairs %h {} 18:54
i think thats the best
and if you want a named var insted of $_
for pairs %h -> $p {}
benabik r: .say for pairs { a => 1, b => 2 }
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«"a" => 1␤"b" => 2␤»
spider-mario what about kv ?
r: .say for kv {a => 1, b => 2} 18:55
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«a␤1␤b␤2␤»
spider-mario yeah, right
r: .say @_ for kv {a => 1, b => 2}
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/rA1WBC_fKj:1␤»
spider-mario oops
lichtkind it gives you a key value list
spider-mario r: say @_ for kv {a => 1, b => 2}
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot use placeholder parameter @_ in the mainline␤at /tmp/HaWjKdRjht:1␤»
spider-mario r: say list $_ for kv {a => 1, b => 2}
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«a␤1␤b␤2␤»
jaffa4 r: for %*ENV.kv -> $a,$b { say $a,$b}
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«PERLBREW_VERSION0.42␤MAIL/var/mail/p6eval␤USERp6eval␤SHLVL1␤HOME/home/p6eval␤OLDPWD/home/p6eval␤PERLBREW_ROOT/home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew␤PERLBREW_MANPATH/home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.14.1/man␤LOGNAMEp6eval␤_./run.sh␤TERMscreen␤PATH/home/p6eval/perl5/perl… 18:56
jnthn A nice way is
yeah, that one :)
spider-mario that’s what I was about to write
TimToady r: -> $k, $v { say "$k $v" } for %*ENV.kv
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«PERLBREW_VERSION 0.42␤MAIL /var/mail/p6eval␤USER p6eval␤SHLVL 1␤HOME /home/p6eval␤OLDPWD /home/p6eval␤PERLBREW_ROOT /home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew␤PERLBREW_MANPATH /home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.14.1/man␤LOGNAME p6eval␤_ ./run.sh␤TERM screen␤PATH /home/p6eva…
jaffa4 Rotated version? 18:57
TimToady r: { say "$^k $^v" } for %*ENV.kv
p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«PERLBREW_VERSION 0.42␤MAIL /var/mail/p6eval␤USER p6eval␤SHLVL 1␤HOME /home/p6eval␤OLDPWD /home/p6eval␤PERLBREW_ROOT /home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew␤PERLBREW_MANPATH /home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.14.1/man␤LOGNAME p6eval␤_ ./run.sh␤TERM screen␤PATH /home/p6eva…
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: 920735f | tadzik++ | web/index.tmpl:
Link to a more appropriate module writing guide
 18:59
tadzik uvtc++
uvtc And Bingo was his name-o. 19:00
tadzik, thanks.
p6eval, nice to see you back.
moritz++ for making the wiki happen! 19:01
19:03 Alano joined, Alano left 19:07 kaare__ joined
jaffa4 How to define an infix operator within a grammar if I could not find a decent example.... 19:08
moritz token myinfix { '+' | '-' }; token term { <termish> [ <infix> <termish> ]* } 19:10
s:2nd/infix/myinfix/
jaffa4 I thought there is a build in operator parser... 19:11
and one can specify precedence levels..
19:14 mdupont joined
masak yeah, that bothers me too. 19:15
there's too little reach into the built-in optable parser.
jaffa4 Not implemented, or not in the spec?
masak a little as if it were only to be used by Perl 6 itself.
19:18 mucker left 19:19 s1n joined
dalek blets: 9a22b66 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
fixed all special var
 19:28
19:32 noam_ joined 19:34 kaare_ joined, kaare__ left
masak jaffa4: it's not in the spec. 19:42
19:43 havenn_ left
masak jaffa4: the only way to create operators is to put them into the language grammar currently being parsed. I know of no mechanism to put them into a user-defined grammar for later use. 19:43
jaffa4: clearly there should *be* a way, but... there isn't.
19:53 raiph joined 19:56 havenn joined
TimToady the P6 dependencies in STD's EXPR method are commented with "# XXX P6", if anyone cares to try figuring out how to make a generic version 19:59
19:59 pmurias joined 20:02 havenn left 20:03 noam_ left 20:04 s1n left, noam_ joined
masak sounds like a nice project for a rainy day. 20:06
sjohnson masak.project 20:07
pmurias fglock_: what do you intent to use Perlito5 for? or is mainly -Ofun? 20:08
moritz masak.schedule: Project.new('generalize STDs precedence parser')
icwiener szabgab: Did you see that your media links are broken? szabgab.com/download/media/perl6_01.avi
moritz
.oO( 'schedule' -- word that can be both verb and noun. Not good. )
 20:09
szabgab icwiener: I thought I removed those links :(
icwiener szabgab: szabgab.com/perl6.html#screencast
There they are.
szabgab icwiener: thanks for telling me, I'll remove the links for now 20:10
till I find the files :)
icwiener You lost the files? :D
20:12 cognominal_ joined, brrt joined 20:13 fsergot left
szabgab icwiener: probably not, I jus t moved server and have not copid the files so I think they are somewhere on my desktop computer :) 20:13
20:13 fsergot joined
arnsholt star: use NativeCall; my $arr = CArray[int].new(); $arr[0] = 1; say $arr[0]; 20:14
p6eval star 2012.02: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
20:14 noam_ left, noam_ joined
jnthn arnsholt: Wow... 20:14
arnsholt: I thougth CArray had passing tests... 20:15
arnsholt Yeah. Didn't really expect that
There are some tests, but none with int, now that I look 20:16
star: use NativeCall; my $arr = CArray[num].new(); $arr[0] = 1.2; say $arr[0];
p6eval star 2012.02: OUTPUT«Cannot unbox argument to '$v' as a native num␤ in method <anon> at /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/4.1.0/languages/perl6/lib/NativeCall.pm6:159␤ in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2891␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/1V9eTk6lWB:1␤␤»
arnsholt Oh, right
star: use NativeCall; my $arr = CArray[num].new(); $arr[0] = 1.2e0; say $arr[0]; 20:17
p6eval star 2012.02: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
arnsholt None of the tests try just creating an array and reading back from it, so that might be it
icwiener szabgab: Ah, ok. :)
20:17 s1n joined
jnthn arnsholt: Hm, they only pass it? 20:18
Aren't there tests for returning an array too? :)
Very curious, anyway
Do you know why it SEGVs?
arnsholt Null pointer
This is a smaller version of the problem in my CStruct test, I'm reasonably sure 20:19
But yeah, there are tests for returning an array, and for passing an array
20:20 bruges joined
arnsholt But no test simply creating and then reading from the array 20:20
jnthn heh, but not reading on you made yourself...
*one
jnthn blames the guy who wrote the tests. 20:21
arnsholt ^_^
But I'm not entirely sure what could be going on. I suppose it could be some kind of spooky action-at-a-distance making the get return garbage, but not sure why the NULL pointer shows up in P6int, not CArray 20:22
Hmm. One possible explanation: bug is related to CArray reading from an array CArray created 20:28
jnthn I suspect it is that 20:29
arnsholt Return array test passes, so reading of at least some arrays does indeed work
20:29 birdwindupbird left
jnthn There's the two modes, one where the array is managing its own memory and another where it isn't. 20:29
arnsholt Similarly, passing array test passes, so layout appears to be correct as well
jnthn I'm wondering if it's a confusion between the two.
arnsholt I have a CArray[int], and stepping in the getter 20:31
elem_size is 8
jnthn That's fine on 64 bit
arnsholt Right. Not that then
Kind is 1
jnthn But it's what the computed offset gets added to taht must be null
oh, wait, is it in at_pos_boxed when it explodes, or at_pos_ref? 20:34
arnsholt The explosion is in P6int.c
jnthn yeah, I see it now
Or, partially 20:35
arnsholt The get is at_pos_ref
jnthn oh
That's the correct one then
So is body->storage NULL?
arnsholt Nope 20:36
jnthn star: use NativeCall; my $arr = CArray[int].new(); $arr[0] = 1; $arr[1] = 2; say $arr[0]; 20:37
p6eval star 2012.02: OUTPUT«1␤»
jnthn OK, two problems
if (body->allocated && index >= body->elems)
return NULL;
That's an off-by-one
Should be >
star: use NativeCall; my $arr = CArray[int].new(); say $arr[0];
p6eval star 2012.02: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
jnthn Second, at_pos_ref can return NULL if there's no element at that reference. 20:38
I'm guessing that this case is not being handled.
arnsholt Yeah
jnthn It doesn't crash in the tests because we can't bounds-check a return value. 20:39
arnsholt Yup
jnthn (Because C arrays don't communicate their size.)
arnsholt But >= should be right, no? 20:40
It's elems that's wrong I think
In my session with a one-element array, elems is 0 20:41
jnthn oh 20:42
yeah, you're right.
masak .oO( "...and off-by-one errors" )
arnsholt Oh, I see it 20:43
if (index >= body->elems) body->elems = index; 20:44
There's the off-by-one
It should be = index+1
20:47 kaare_ left
jnthn aha! 20:47
good find :)
arnsholt Thanks =)
jnthn arnsholt++ # oneing in on the bug
arnsholt I'll leave the accessor-returns-NULL issue to you =) 20:48
I'll add a test and fix in master and pull that back into my branch 20:49
With a bit of luck my structs will work then
20:53 arlinius joined 20:54 alester joined
uvtc moritz, new wiki down? 20:56
20:56 dalek joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v dalek
uvtc moritz, oh, it's back. 20:57
lichtkind raiph: hai 20:58
20:58 p6eval joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v p6eval
raiph lichtkind: hi 20:59
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 97cecea | (John Gabriele)++ | source/community/index.html:
Added link to new Perl 6 wiki
lichtkind very much changed :)
dalek p: 769b277 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CArray.c:
Fix off-by-one bug in CArray.c.
 21:00
21:00 ggoebel joined
lichtkind who is john gabriele? 21:00
21:00 Juerd joined
uvtc hi 21:00
that's me
21:01 tadzik joined 21:02 [Coke] joined, Util joined, hugme joined, PerlJam joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v hugme
arnsholt There. Fix pushed 21:02
jnthn yay
21:02 masak joined
tadzik heh. Everyone loses connection and gets back to the channel. arnsholt: "There. Fix pushed" 21:02
I feel updated 21:03
21:03 Chillance left, Chillance joined
arnsholt ^_^ 21:04
And even better, my CStruct with CArray test case now works properly
arnsholt celebrates a bit
Juerd Just a bit? For arrays and structs I'd expect at least a few bytes. 21:05
arnsholt =D
tadzik heh, where do I have this..
jnthn Maybe grab a nibble to eat...
tadzik goo.gl/VBMbr
jnthn Anyway, word up!
tadzik aye, here
jnthn tadzik: :P 21:06
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 9ac8a61 | (John Gabriele)++ | source/documentation/index.html:
Updated link to Perl 6 Tablets
tadzik rseen tadzik? 21:07
heh, rseen would be nice. Then I could write "tadzik. Providing not-really-related images from the internets since 200x"
[Coke] please see the rseen(1) and rseen.conf(5) man pages for full documentation.
tadzik so there is hope :) 21:08
dalek p/cstruct-work: 3a23406 | jnthn++ | src/6model/reprs/CStruct.c:
Don't try to allocate 0 bytes in CStruct REPR.
 21:09
p/cstruct-work: 1b1106c | moritz++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
bump parrot revision to 4.3.0
p/cstruct-work: 769b277 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CArray.c:
Fix off-by-one bug in CArray.c.
p/cstruct-work: b85e904 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | / (3 files):
Merge branch 'master' into cstruct-work
p/cstruct-work: 682e311 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CStruct.c:
Implement setting of CArray members in CStructs.

Confirmed working in Perl 6-land, C-land working or breakage to be determined.
arnsholt Proper testcases in Zavolaj can wait 'till tomorrow 21:10
tadzik writing something that generates Perl 6 modules from .h files could be a nice thing for the hackathon
21:11 havenn joined
arnsholt Quite. We should discuss that on friday =) 21:11
tadzik certainly :)
arnsholt See you folks in cyberspace tomorrow, and some even in meatspace on friday =D
tadzik o/
arnsholt &
jnthn looks forward to it 21:12
o/, arnsholt
21:13 alester left
uvtc Who handles updates to rakudo.org? 21:17
21:18 libertyprime joined
jnthn Any of the folks who have a login to it and time. 21:18
I know myself, pmichaud and moritz have access.
uvtc I was going to suggest that I think it should have a separate heading for Rakudo Star. 21:19
21:19 nif joined
jnthn ah, not a bad idea. 21:20
uvtc Would be useful to link new users directly to a R* page there.
Currently, the "How to get Rakudo Perl 6" is mostly about building the compiler release.
There's also still a "How to get Rakudo nom" heading there. 21:21
Gah. My time for now just ran out. Gotta go. o/
raiph \o
21:23 Chillance left 21:24 Chillance joined, brrt left, libertyprime left, libertyp1ime joined 21:25 brrt joined 21:27 pmurias left 21:32 libertyp1ime left
dalek blets: 23d1466 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/introduction.txt:
update content of into to recent order
 21:37
blets: 4b4f95c | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (3 files):
moved it terms to glossary
lichtkind raiph: ping? 21:39
moritz: is it to every full hour? 21:41
21:42 thou left, thou joined 21:46 fridim_ joined 21:54 jaffa4 left 21:56 tokuhirom joined 22:00 tokuhirom left
fsergot good night o/ 22:02
22:02 fsergot left 22:03 tokuhirom joined, brrt left 22:10 libertyprime joined 22:23 mdupont left, mdupont joined
diakopter phenny: tell masak Whether you believe you can autopun or not, you are right. 22:24
phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
22:25 localhost joined
raiph phenny, ask phenny (and lichtkind) is this pong an autopun? 22:27
phenny Hey, I'm not as stupid as Monty you know!
lichtkind raiph: no just wanta know if your still around 22:28
masak diakopter: belief doesn't come into it! I think you're veering too close to self-reference right now ;)
phenny masak: 22:24Z <diakopter> tell masak Whether you believe you can autopun or not, you are right.
masak diakopter: the key is use/mention collapsing.
like "Whr dd ll m vwls g?" 22:29
(though that particular one is quite tired)
diakopter Whether you believe this is an autopun or not, you are right.
TimToady speaking of which, have you seen imgur.com/r/funny/4r8uO ? 22:30
masak yeah. typical self-reference.
diakopter I skimmed an explanation somewhere; I don't remember it. 22:31
jnthn Ouch!
masak that one is nice because you can actually start down the problem, do a few iterations on it, and then go "oh, I see what you did there..."
jnthn ...it was instantly funny then I started thinking about it :)
masak but srsly. if you do a Monte Carlo on that one, you're bound to get a probability out, aren't you? 22:32
and since it's a computer program, you have to make assumptions, and it's those assumptions that determine that answer.
diakopter I don't see how all puns about autopunning aren't autopuns 22:33
masak the one assumption that matters here seems to be "to what degree are (A) and (D) 'the same'?"
TimToady
.oO(This car no autopun.)
masak TimToady: :P
diakopter: well, the trick isn't to get "autopun" in there somewhere. it's to collapse a mention into a use and catching the listener slightly unawares. 22:34
"We can repair anything. (Please knock hard on the door, the doorbell doesn't work.)"
TimToady well, but that one depends on assumptions too 22:35
"can" == "always do"
diakopter Teach a man to autopun, you'll feed him for a lifetime.
diakopter is hungry 22:36
masak TimToady: well, they don't have to make perfect sense. just tickle the imagination enough so that it connects the dots.
TimToady: and not repairing the doorbell in this case has a certain sense of "heal thyself" justice to it that I think makes people smile.
diakopter: aww :) I love to see you try, though. 22:37
diakopter AUTOFAIL
TimToady I think any autopunnyness of the multiple choice question hinges on use/mention of the concept of "correct" 22:39
masak oh, you consider the multi-choice question an autopun? I just see it as an Epimeaniness. 22:40
diakopter still I struggle with the definition 22:41
masak yeah. me too.
diakopter use/mention collapsing
masak ok, a clear example.
TimToady self-reference always involves some degree of use/mention, but I can see where it doesn't tickle you enough to call it a pun
it certainly tickles me :) 22:42
and part of the is the garden-pathology of it, when you see the second 25%
22:43 uvtc joined
masak "...you think 'I know, I'll use multithreading! Nothhw tpe yawrve ..." 22:44
er
"...you think 'I know, I'll use multithreading!' Nothhw tpe yawrve ..."
uvtc haha
masak see? :)
diakopter: the 'multithreading' is the mention.
diakopter: the garbled characters are the use.
diakopter: the fact that the garbled characters *enter the reality of the joke* is the collapse. 22:45
jnthn "I reviewed your code and found two errors. It is an off-by one."
huf :)))))) 22:46
TimToady btw, off-by-one is just a naming problem
diakopter "masak reviewed your autopun and didn't get it. He laughed."
s/your/this/ 22:47
argh.
still I mix too much self-reference
also, the fact it's not funny makes it use the mention. 22:48
22:51 whiteknight joined 22:52 raiph left
diakopter There are only 10 kinds of people - those who understand autopuns and those who don't. 22:53
masak :D 22:54
just by using fixed snowclone-ish joke templates like that, you can approximate funny pretty well :) 22:55
diakopter "To autopun or not to autopun" 22:56
masak the "...and 9 other kinds!" joke is funny because it (a) deviates from the pattern at the last moment when the listener has already committed down the garden path, and (b) in retrospect puts the speaker squarely in the category of "doesn't understand binary", closing the autopun loop. 22:57
diakopter Self-reference alone or even mentioning autopuns as well does not make an autopun. 22:59
sjohnson diakopter: hi
22:59 spider-mario left
diakopter sjohnson: hello from the punfailer 23:00
sjohnson punfailer eh
i haven't told any bad puns today tho!
diakopter I meant myself 23:01
sjohnson hmm, i wonder if i can whip up a purposely corny pun
masak .oO( just put enough maize in it ) 23:02
diakopter just assume everything you read intends to self-refer
masak .oO( you're in a corny maize of twisty little autopuns, all alike )
sjohnson a maze of maize! HAHAHAHAHA 23:03
bbl
23:03 cognominal joined
masak .oO( he got a sudden urge to make popcorn ) 23:03
23:04 silug joined
diakopter as soon as masak teaches me to autopun, I'll make one. 23:05
23:06 cognominal_ left
diakopter YAFAIL 23:06
pretty soon here TimToady will correctly label me as perseverating
23:09 javascriptnewbie joined
masak javascriptnewbie: oh hai! 23:10
javascriptnewbie hi!
23:11 flussence joined
masak welcome to our humble channel. 23:11
TimToady diakopter: I keep doing that.
23:11 fridim_ left
diakopter :) 23:11
masak there! see!? 23:12
TimToady is like, built out of autopuns.
javascriptnewbie i'm shinobicl... i'm just asking stuff on the #javascript channel :) .... with no luck :(
masak oh.
carry on, then. 23:13
javascriptnewbie i'm just here to ask... i finished a module (WorkdayCalendar) and i want to "publish" it
flussence was slightly confused there until checking the ir clogs
javascriptnewbie what should i do? is there a tool for that?
uvtc javascriptnewbie, wiki.perl6.org/Create%20and%20Distr...%20Modules 23:14
javascriptnewbie thanks :D uvtc
uvtc javascriptnewbie, sure, y/w 23:15
23:16 icwiener left
javascriptnewbie is that a wiki written in haskell? 23:16
uvtc Yes. 23:17
javascriptnewbie oh... nice... well got to go now... i'll upload my module this week :) good night all!
uvtc g'night 23:18
diakopter I don't see why the use/mention of autopuns can't be an autopun. :| too directly self-referential? 23:19
no pun intended. 23:20
masak ;)
diakopter I think.
masak I guess it could be an autopun, it's more like... it isn't automatically one.
it doesn't become an autopun because it's a self-reference, or because you throw in the word "autopun" in there somewhere.
23:21 javascriptnewbie left 23:22 daniel-s joined, mspaulding joined 23:23 awwaiid joined 23:24 Chillance left
sorear good * #perl6 23:26
diakopter howdy
lichtkind uvtc: i have trouble with the anchors 23:27
uvtc What's the trouble?
23:28 sftp joined
uvtc sorry, have to go 23:30
23:30 uvtc left
sorear diakopter: heya 23:30
lichtkind good bye 23:32
they dont work :)
23:35 libertyprime left, jnthn_ joined 23:39 libertyprime joined 23:40 sftp left 23:44 flussence left 23:46 jnthn_ is now known as jnthn 23:47 sftp joined 23:49 libertyprime left 23:50 libertyprime joined 23:51 alvis joined, pochi joined, yeltzooo7 joined, libertyprime left 23:52 flussence joined 23:56 thou left 23:57 thou joined 23:58 daemon left 23:59 awwaiid left, awwaiid joined

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!