»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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dalek blets: ef83e04 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
explaining smartmatch and lol and adding some other term dummies
tadzik 'morning 01:51
phenny tadzik: 30 Apr 22:04Z <sisar> tell tadzik regarding popolnik, maybe you were looking for pastebin.com/hmjcndwB
lichtkind TimToady: had nothing to do with your ponderings :)
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tadzik phenny: tell sisar Thanks, that's more than I remembered :) 01:54
phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when sisar is around.
moritz tadzik: sleepless too? 01:55
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tadzik moritz: not really, just came from a party 01:56
moritz tadzik: oh, that's a much nicer reason to be awake at this time of night 01:57
tadzik I slept through most part of Alice in Wonderland :)
moritz tries to sleep again
tadzik in particular, I don't remember anything between getting in a rabbit hole and getting out of it
but I do remember some quote saying "you won't remember anything". Which is kind of ironic 01:58
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sorear masak++ 02:42
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dalek blets: 3f58f27 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
refining some bits especially the subroutine entry
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moritz oh shark 08:28
it's quiet in here today
JimmyZ \o
arnsholt Well, labour day is for not working, no? =) 08:29
moritz right 08:30
which means, by definition, hanging out in IRC :-)
arnsholt Troo, troo 08:31
moritz accidentally deleted his parrot 08:34
tadzik good morning 08:36
arnsholt moritz: So now you get to compile Rakudo all over again. Congrats =) 08:42
moritz tadzik: fwiw the 'smoker' script in emmentaler should probably be executable 08:44
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moritz tadzik: and the README says that neutro is a dependency 08:45
that should probably be panda
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cognominal \o/ what is the way/library for command switch processing? 08:55
arnsholt Just the MAIN sub I think 08:57
moritz yes 08:58
it covers some of the common cases
though arguably in the long run we'll need something more sophisticated
cognominal thx 09:00
moritz tadzik: gist.github.com/2566601 failure while bootstrapping panda 09:04
I have done a fresh clone of panda, and no local changes
tadzik moritz: oh, interesting 09:10
moritz: can you try removing ~/.panda/? 09:11
you may have some local changes there, ie ~/.panda/src/panda
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dalek rlito: ad3b918 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (6 files):
Perlito5 - javascript: implement $AUTOLOAD variable
fglock labour day is a working day in the Netherlands :P 09:21
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masak good antenoon, #perl6 09:25
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masak TimToady: we have a non-smartmatch topicalizer. 09:28
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moritz yes, but it's verbosish 09:37
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jnthn It's the first of May, first of May! 09:40
...good morning, #perl6 :)
moritz good antenoon, jnthn :-)
tadzik: works after removing ~/.panda
jnthn :P
fglock good lunchtime! 09:45
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masak good noon! 09:59
dalek p: 480d22d | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CArray.c:
[CArray] Refactor bind_pos_boxed/at_pos_boxed.

Since we've added child_objs, we can cache the generated String objects as well, and eliminate the need for at/bind_pos_complex. 0dde8f3 | moritz++ | tools/lib/NQP/Configure.pm:
  [configure] automatically configure push urls
when cloning NQP or Parrot, automatically add an ssh-based pushurl, to make contributions easier for those with commit bits
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arnsholt Durr? I didn't just push that commit I think... 10:01
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moritz arnsholt: oh, I'm sorry 10:01
arnsholt: I had locally merged that branch, and never meant to push it
arnsholt: and then I did another commit, forgot it, and pushed 10:02
arnsholt: should I revert the merge?
masak do a git push --force
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masak it's only been 2 minutes. 10:02
moritz ok
masak++ arnsholt++ 10:03
arnsholt Oh, right
arnsholt I think the commit is good
moritz arnsholt: it wasn't just that commit, it was the whole branch. dalek just reported one
arnsholt I was just a bit confused by me committing something while working on something else =)
moritz arnsholt: I'll let you do the merge once you decide it's time for it
note to self: make a different branch for testing local merges 10:05
arnsholt I recently fixed git push to only push the current branch
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moritz well, that doesn't help when I locally merge your branch into master for testing :-) 10:08
arnsholt Right ^_^
moritz corte.si/posts/code/pathod/announce0_1.html # that looks quite cool 10:10
dalek mentaler: 90ae502 | tadzik++ | / (21 files):
Remove obsolete files
mentaler: b7843aa | tadzik++ | smoker (2 files):
Make smoker executable
mentaler: 01a2fb5 | tadzik++ | formatter (2 files):
Rename formatter, make it executable
mentaler: d51daf8 | tadzik++ | README:
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.oO( I'm not for smoking, but it's executing smokers a little harsh? )
masak moritz: nice.
jnthn: they're only being made executable. 10:12
jnthn masak: I know but the temptation it'll unleash... :P
masak like a craving.
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arnsholt Let's see if I can't unbreak my NQP 10:18
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jnthn oh noes, you broke it? 10:18
arnsholt Well, only locally =)
But ever since I tried to add my CStr repr to the build process, it complains about not being able to locate the nqp_dyncall_ops shared lib 10:19
jnthn Hm
That's...very odd.
moritz arnsholt: what to paste the diff to Makefile.in?
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arnsholt Yeah. I'm thinking that it's not actually a failure to locate but a failure to load 10:20
I'm trying to rebuild without the CStr repr right now. I'll come back with the diff if it's still broken
colomon anyone out there understand how #?DOES is supposed to work in fudge? 10:22
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moritz colomon: there are two ways it can work 10:22
colomon: you can put it in front of a block, and do a #?impl skip 'reason'. Then it will skip as many tests as the number after #?DOES 10:23
colomon: or you can put it in front of a function. In which case fudge considers that function a normal test function like ok() or is(), and that it runs the specified number of tests
does t/spec/S02-magicals/env.t pass on current rakudo? 10:24
colomon what I'm running into at the moment is that the value (at least using niecza's fudgeandrun) appears to be sticky 10:25
jnthn Not here, but I thought that may be Windows specific.
colomon that is, I say #?DOES 3 before a block, and every skip after that is getting marked as 3 tests.
arnsholt There, I fixed it
Combination of two errors. One brain-dead copy-pasta, and one line I forgot to update in Makefile.in 10:26
moritz jnthn: do Test::Util based tests run on windows now?
jnthn moritz: yeah 10:27
moritz \o/
jnthn I have vastly less failures these days
moritz jnthn: what failures remain?
dalek kudo/nom: 5552804 | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
fill in some ChangeLog entries
jnthn moritz: Mostly ones in the pod tests due to \r\n related parse issues 10:28
colomon moritz: never mind, deleting the #?DOES commands I'd added and switching to the function version made it work beautifully.
moritz colomon: good
jnthn moritz: Can do a run now to see the full list
arnsholt jnthn: BTW, after some thought I'm not sure I'm happy with manually-manage(). What do you think about explicitly-manage? 10:29
dalek ast: 4d31087 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/short-circuit.t:
Add proper #?DOES for accumtest, unfudge test that now works in Niecza.
arnsholt It's not manually managing memory in the sense of malloc/free, after all
jnthn keep-alive(...) :) 10:30
arnsholt Heh. That makes me think of HTTP =)
jnthn Yeah, that was kinda deliberate.
Instead of a re-marshall for every call, we marshall once and re-use that every call. :) 10:31
arnsholt Point, point
jnthn It's probably a "you think it's cute today" name though :)
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arnsholt Does have that potential, yeah 10:31
moritz r: say %*ENV<notthere>.defined 10:33
p6eval rakudo 2da78a: OUTPUT«True␤»
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moritz tadzik: ^^ that's a regression from your patches 10:33
r: say %*ENV<notthere>.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 2da78a: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
moritz r: say %*ENV<notthere>.perl 10:34
p6eval rakudo 2da78a: OUTPUT«""␤»
moritz tadzik: at least I think so
tadzik moritz: it would seem so, yes
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tadzik it may be that from a system's POV there's no difference between an unset variable and a variable set to "" 10:35
will investigate
moritz there is, I think
jnthn 4, 5, 9 and 15 from env.t fail here 10:36
tadzik investigates
moritz tadzik: I'm fudging the tests for now
tadzik okay, thanks
dalek ast: f5b0e56 | moritz++ | S02-magicals/env.t:
[env.t] redo tests for child process %*ENV with Test::Util

Also re-fudge for rakudo
jnthn moritz: Do you have a failure in S10-packages/basic.t? 10:37
moritz jnthn: no 10:38
jnthn Oddness.
moritz jnthn: which one fails? 10:39
jnthn 47
tadzik may it be that get_string_keyed VTABLE always returns a string, even ""?
jnthn And it looks like a really weird failure to be Windows-specific...
tadzik tries a patch
jnthn tadzik: You can nqp::existskey to check for existence and do soemthing different. 10:40
tadzik right
what should an unset var return, a Str type object? 10:41
moritz r: my %h; say %h<foo>.perl 10:42
p6eval rakudo 2da78a: OUTPUT«Any␤»
moritz tadzik: sound sensible
tadzik Got it
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moritz jnthn: any idea how I could implement the -I (search path) command line option? 11:04
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moritz jnthn: the question is, where do we store the additional search paths, and when do we stuff them into @*INC? 11:04
jnthn moritz: Guess it wants similar handling to PERL6LIB?
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moritz jnthn: ok, that answers the "when" 11:06
jnthn moritz: It all happens in term.pm
moritz jnthn: but where do we store it? in the Perl6::Compiler object?
or HLL::Compiler, for that matter?
jnthn Oh, you mean where is it kept?
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moritz yes 11:07
between parsing it and the run time of the setting
jnthn You're in the dynamic context of the compiler when the setting is being loaded. 11:08
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jnthn In Actions.pm to find the --setting=... we do %*COMPILING<%?OPTIONS><setting> 11:08
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moritz oh 11:08
jnthn You'll need to use nqp::atkey(...) blah in the setting though
moritz so I can just access %*COMPILING<%?OPTIONS><I>
jnthn e.g. not do Perl 6 style keying...
moritz hm, I thought it worked 11:09
jnthn You can always try it out in a BEGIN block to figure out how to get hold of it.
moritz because of how we marshal parrot stuff to Perl 6 types
jnthn We marshall return values from method calls.
Don't think we marshall contextual lookups.
bbi10, eating brunch :)
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dalek nqp: 480d22d | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CArray.c: 11:16
nqp: [CArray] Refactor bind_pos_boxed/at_pos_boxed.
nqp: Since we've added child_objs, we can cache the generated String objects as
nqp: well, and eliminate the need for at/bind_pos_complex.
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arnsholt Hmm. I think dalek needs some kind of rate limiting 11:16
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arnsholt But now the write-barrier stuff is in master 11:19
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dalek volaj: 3b4926f | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | t/07-writebarrier. (2 files):
Add tests for write-barriering of CArray and CStruct types.
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jnthn arnsholt++ 11:24
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tadzik FETCH cannot return Any? 11:24
it seems to segfault rakudo when I do it in the setting 11:25
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jnthn doesn't see why it couldn't 11:25
tadzik hm 11:26
gist.github.com/2567462 11:28
jnthn alive3 11:30
I don't see taht in the code?
tadzik oh
it's the third "alive"
jnthn tadzik: uh 11:31
tadzik must've undoed something accidentaly
jnthn YOu're returning
tadzik so it blows up on "return Any"
jnthn "return"
YOu don't want to do taht.
That returns from the at_key
tadzik oh
jnthn Not from the closure you're FETCHing.
FETCH => {
That's just a closure, so it's transparent to return.
arnsholt I just have to mention that I <3 git
jnthn Just remove the return statements. 11:32
tadzik I think it's the second time I stumble upon this :)
dalek rlito: 000df64 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - javascript: implement infix:<**>
tadzik thanks jnthn
arnsholt Make WIP commit on branch, do stuff in a couple other branches, come back to original branch, reset HEAD^ and pick off where I left
No idea what I'd done if this were svn
tadzik I usually use stash for this 11:33
arnsholt Yeah, it's essentially a manual stash
But I had some new source files I wanted to get out of the way since I was going to merge my feature branch into master 11:34
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arnsholt Which would be git stash -u, I see now that I bother to read the docs again O:) 11:34
moritz arnsholt: to be fair, svn makes working with dirty trees much easier than git 11:35
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arnsholt Dirty tree yes, but I'm starting to quite like the pattern of temporary WIP commits to get things out of the way 11:36
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dalek p/toqast: 07ab3c7 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/ (2 files):
Sketch out 'bind' op; since it's sensitive to the variable type, the real work on this will be done by the QAST::Var processor.
p/toqast: d8fd160 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Implement lookup of and binding to locals; handles natively typed ones right off (which PAST never did).
p/toqast: b67c3b8 | jnthn++ | t/qast/qast.t:
Some very basic tests for binding to a local of the various native types, and ensuring a bind works as an rvalue too (e.g. we return the bound value).
jnthn -> store, hope it's open!
sjn jnthn: good luck with that 11:59
mayday is pretty important here in the nordics :)
moritz jnthn: fwiw I noticed that nqp::shift can be both shifting off an RPA or off an iterator 12:04
jnthn: i guess for compatibilty with other ops we might want an nqp::itershift or so
moritz has a working prototype for -I lib 12:06
masak nice: www.utf8everywhere.org/ 12:07
moritz aye, though I think some parts of it are technically not well done 12:08
for one they focus quite a bit on C++
sjn writes a hackathon report
anyone here want to give me some ideas of what worked and what didn't so much? :)
moritz and then they don't actually tell you how to do some operations (like substr) on the Codepoint or character leven with UTF-8 12:09
sjn: worked: nice location, good information upfront, good food, good hacking
sjn: not worked: discussing all the topics you guys suggested up front 12:10
rsimoes "unicode everywhere" might be more palatable
sjn moritz: yep, good point
rsimoes since it's not obvious to everyone that utf8 is preferable over alternatives 12:11
dalek ast: 353a80c | tadzik++ | S02-magicals/env.t:
Untodo passing %*ENV tests
kudo/nom: e9d0bbb | tadzik++ | src/core/terms.pm:
Fix %*ENV regressions
jnthn sjn: My local coop seems pretty immune to red days :) 12:16
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jnthn sjn: Venue was great and easy to work undistracted, good supply of coffee and nom, well organized everything, good balance of hacking/socializing. 12:19
masak jnthn: local coop doesn't respect May 1? Bloody commies! oh wait :P 12:21
jnthn masak: If they're not supporting a *red* day, how are they... :P
masak and it's a *co-op*!
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dalek kudo/nom: 4c241c8 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
implement -I command line option
masak I guess they've been corrupted by soulless profiteering or something. 12:22
jnthn sjn: As moritz mentioned, we didn't manage to discuss all the topics suggested up front... I wonder if there's some degree to which if you put a bunch of people who already have a bunch of interesting problems to work together though, they'll reliably and quite happily self-organize without needing a theme.
sjn notes that the Swedes are slowly turning into American Capitalist Pigs :) 12:23
jnthn: how about friday? 12:24
sjn has no clue what you guys spent your time on, on friday
jnthn sjn: We discussed stuff and hacked on stuff.
sjn that day kinda became a "bonus day"
jnthn sjn: Getting us a place to be able to do so was a big win. 12:25
sjn jnthn: so when you "good balance of hacking/socializing", you took friday into account
you said* 12:26
jnthn sjn: Yes.
sjn: Friday was productive in the day and social in the evening :)
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jnthn (For those of us around early enough to hack on Friday, that is.) 12:26
moritz sjn: as a summary, I for one was very happy with the hackathon 12:29
jnthn Same. I was only sad on Monday, when I realized that the hackathon had come to an end. :) 12:31
And thought "gee, why can't all days be that much fun?" :)
masak I thought "what if every day at work at clients were like this?" i.e. brimming with creativity around a table, people just exchange information freely when they need to, and everyone gets a lot done on whatever they want. and somehow lunch just materializes. :P 12:35
moritz it didn't materialize; krunen++ usually was involved with preparing it :-) 12:36
masak I know... :)
moritz sjn++ krunen++ frettled++
masak I agree on the Friday being a big win. the hackathon still felt short, but the Friday sure helped to gear into it.
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[Coke] seen ambs? 12:38
aloha ambs was last seen in #parrot 139 days 1 hours ago joining the channel.
[Coke] I didn't see any perl6 submissions for grants this quarter! 12:39
(granted, I forgot to squawk about it here...) 12:40
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jnthn oh darn, I still didn't file my final report for my current one! 12:41
masak jnthn: what's blocking you? 12:43
jnthn masak: Finding it more fun to write code than to write prose :P 12:44
(So basically, nothing besides getting around to it.)
[Coke] does anyone have any thing they'd work on if only someone would pay them to? 12:45
tadzik well, if one could start in July... 12:46
masak .oO( drinking pina coladas on an idyllic beach in Thailand... )
oh, "work"... :P 12:47
jnthn I'd work on a microbrewery tour?
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jnthn will actually file a grant after this to do compact arrays and other S09 goodness. 12:47
*after this one
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masak \o/ 12:47
PerlJam [Coke]: money and tuits aren't fungible. Even if TPF has money to give, it's the tuits that are the real problem. 12:48
masak still, asking doesn't hurt.
jnthn Aye
PerlJam indeed
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PerlJam It would be neat if TPF had a "make a wish" kind of grant where TPF takes care of whatever details are required to obtain the appropriate tuits for you to work on some Perl thing. 12:50
moritz [Coke]: I might. But I'm still working on that exceptions grant
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dalek p/toqast: 28c8f73 | jnthn++ | t/qast/qast.t:
Make sure simple lookups of locals work too.
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dalek blets: a3c24a0 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/report.pl:
regularize report script
blets: 56dfda4 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
small format fixe
arnsholt Segfault! \o/ 13:57
tadzik \o/
always funy
dalek rlito: b44f592 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - TODO update
arnsholt Yeah. Also, it means that I managed to get my new NQP C code to run from Perl 6 =)
Oh, dang. I forgot to set debug flags in my Parrot 14:01
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sergot hi o/ 14:02
tadzik hi fs
aw. hi sergot
colomon is trying out emmentaler locally.... 14:07
masak o rekin, sergocie. 14:10
sergot masak: why 'rekin'? :) 14:11
masak .oO( when they dissect masak's brain in 2076, and discover that he knows the vocative of "shark" in Polish really well, but almost no other Polish... )
sergot: you asked that yesterday!
I said you should check the backlog, but apparently I chose a word that means "to-do list". 14:12
so you probably never did :)
sergot masak: Oh, ok. :)
masak sergot: the explanation is that "hai" means "shark" in a couple languages, and tadzik realized this and started saying "oh shark" instead of "oh hai". 14:14
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sergot :) 14:17
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dalek blets: dca1063 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/report.pl:
report now includes all tablets
colomon tadzik: perl-5.14 required? 14:21
colomon turns back on his perlbrew...
tadzik colomon: uh, shouldn't be
that reminds me to write the Perl 5 dependencies
I suppose even 5.8 will do
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colomon tadzik: formatter, line 2: use 5.014; 14:22
tadzik right 14:23
it's just a habit of mine, so I have say() and all this
I'm now sanitizing this file a little bit
colomon sure, 5.14 is cool
successfully generated my own emmentaler HTML page. 14:24
tadzik yay!
colomon now to hack it to run under niecza... ;)
well, actually, now to $work, and p6 hacking for later
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.oO( would be nice for my $dayjob stuff if I could write "use $specific-perlbrew-install-alias;"... )
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dalek mentaler: d6058c1 | tadzik++ | formatter:
Simplify formatter
mentaler: e12a40a | tadzik++ | README:
Note Perl 5 dependencies in README
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tadzik frowns at perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Double-u...core_forms 14:45
in particular at having a separate variable for every POd block type 14:46
masak well, it would feel a bit silly to have a = twigil just to get $=pod 14:47
tadzik that too ;)
masak =begin DATA 14:48
didn't we lower-case 'DATA' to 'data'?
i.e. shouldn't S02 play catch-up with S26 there?
tadzik should 14:49
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tadzik hmm, that shouldn't be too hard to implement, maybe 14:50
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masak oh, and '=begin END' is '=begin finish' now. 14:51
the prose says it, but the table doesn't.
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masak wonders if we have a spectest to make sure that '=end finish' is treated as verbatim text, not a directive 14:53
[Coke] ... begin finish?
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masak [Coke]: usually just =finish 14:53
[Coke]: Perl 6's __END__
[Coke] just read funny.
(no funnier than begin end, I suppose. ;)
masak no :) 14:54
and =end is problematic
so =finish it became.
it's good 'cus its dual noun/verb.
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[Coke] I would have preferred "stop", I think. 14:55
but, close enough. ;)
masak that reads wrong to me.
sure, the Perl 6 parser stops caring, but the Pod parser is just getting warmed up! :) 14:56
whereas "finish" has connotations of "and now, the big finish!"
(especially =begin finish)
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PerlJam thinks finale would work better there :) 14:57
masak sure, but it's just noun-y. 14:58
I kinda like finale, though.
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masak p6: s[ish] = 'ale' given my $directive = 'finish'; say $directive 15:17
p6eval rakudo 4c241c, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«finale␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
masak still thinks that syntax is awesome sauce