»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
00:11 b1rkh0ff left
diakopter TimToady: there is a test in the test suite that does this: 00:13
r: ('a', 'b', { $^a ~ 'x', $^a ~ $^b, $^b ~ 'y' } ... *)[^11].join(' ')
p6eval rakudo b057f6: ( no output )
diakopter r: say ('a', 'b', { $^a ~ 'x', $^a ~ $^b, $^b ~ 'y' } ... *)[^11].join(' ')
p6eval rakudo b057f6: OUTPUT«a b ax ab by abx abby byy abbyx abbybyy byyy abbybyyx abbybyybyyy byyyy abbybyybyyyx abbybyybyyybyyyy byyyyy abbybyybyyybyyyyx abbybyybyyybyyyybyyyyy byyyyyy abbybyybyyybyyyybyyyyyx abbybyybyyybyyyybyyyyybyyyyyy byyyyyyy abbybyybyyybyyyybyyyyybyyyyyyx abbybyybyyyby…
diakopter when I add a flat to the beginning:
r: say flat('a', 'b', { $^a ~ 'x', $^a ~ $^b, $^b ~ 'y' } ... *)[^11].join(' ')
p6eval rakudo b057f6: OUTPUT«a b ax ab by abx abby byy abbyx abbybyy byyy␤»
diakopter it DWIM 00:14
should the flat be part of the test? or should it work as written?
niecza: say ('a', 'b', { $^a ~ 'x', $^a ~ $^b, $^b ~ 'y' } ... *)[^11].join(' ') #does the right thing 00:16
p6eval niecza v18-1-gc86e3f0: OUTPUT«a b ax ab by abx abby byy abbyx abbybyy byyy␤»
diakopter is niecza right to have them flattened?
(niecza passes the test) 00:18
sorear dunno. 00:20
someone added the test so I changed niecza's behavior to conform to it
diakopter oh 00:21
TimToady it should not need the flat
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TimToady ... is supposed to imply it 00:22
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Teratogen mithril! all folk desire it! 00:23
TimToady I dunno, Bilbo gave his away 00:24
Teratogen to Frodo 00:25
sorear Teratogen: you're being unfunny again
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raiph hi all 00:29
sorear hello, raiph. 00:31
raiph i just did a forgiveness > permission complete rewrite of the front page of wiki.perl6.org. a "wfm" or 2 (or u rascal) is probably in order
hi sorear
this is in prep for a meta discussion of perl6 doc. 00:32
(which is itself of course prep for a bunch of writing of actual perl6 doc, in my case something i intend to help with over the next couple years.) 00:34
diakopter parsing/compiling rakudo's setting takes about 6% longer with the latest s/pir::/nqp::/ changes
sorear do we really need a link for Wiki? 00:35
and... not c2.com? 00:36
au: I beleive PUGS should just be Pugs. Is this correct?
raiph: I don't see much content in the rewrite ... ? Shouldn't the front page say what P6 is, etc? 00:38
raiph sorear: hmm. i thought that was best done by the perl6.org home page, or a commit controlled page linked off that. 00:40
sorear: i see the wiki as a dumping ground for bits that haven't gotten formalized and written up nicely somewhere else. i just wanted a tidy dump. 00:41
diakopter raiph: I think it shouldn't be viewed that way
raiph diakopter: ok. i'm listening. (and can revert what i did, though i don't think the earlier version was better in the ways sorear just alluded to) 00:42
diakopter you can use individual pages of the wiki as dumping ground, but not ones in the main structure of the site.
raiph diakopter: that's what i meant 00:43
diakopter oh
raiph diakopter: so Q1 is, is the version I just wrote better than what came before? (wiki.perl6.org/Front%20Page?revisio...b8d607eb7) 00:46
diakopter I think all of that should be in a separate page called How To Use the Wiki 00:47
linked prominently from the front page
raiph diakopter: "all of that" -- is that a reaction to the old version or the new version? are you suggesting we should not, eg, direct users to "click on ..." etc.? 00:50
diakopter I agree with sorear; the front page should be a very broad overview of Perl 6, with links to articles on History, Design Process, Design Goals, Language specification, etc 00:51
which version is the one you linked me - new or old?
raiph i agree with the sentiment that we could, mebbe should, assume wiki knowledge. i first bumped into c2 in 1995, so it's definitely old hat to me... 00:52
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diakopter I think most of the people who will view the site aren't interested in contributing to it 00:53
raiph diakopter: the link is the old one
diakopter oh
raiph diakopter: now it's wiki.perl6.org
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diakopter I think your rewrite is fine; I think there needs to be a lot more there though, more prominently at the top 00:55
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diakopter and yes, I'm volunteering to contribute :) 00:59
raiph diakopter: oh. i know you earlier mentioned you wanted to try plug one of P6's primary weaknesses (the doc situation) 01:02
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raiph diakopter: i'm leery of putting in anything but absolutely basic structure, stuff i know I could fill if no one else does. i would hate to see a pile of stubs. 01:03
diakopter hm, yeah 01:04
raiph i'm also wanting there to be the proverbial rough consensus, worked out over a few days to ensure most regulars get a voice, about what to do and how to go about it 01:05
but that's just what i want, and i only want it cuz i feel it would be best for P6. 01:08
fact is, if you are going to contribute, that's probably more significant than anything else i've thought about
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raiph so, modulo my generally anti-authority attitude, mebbe i should put it this way. diakopter: how may i help? 01:09
diakopter uh :) 01:10
I'm sorry for sounding authoritarian. :/ 01:11
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diakopter s/sounding/being/ 01:19
raiph Heh, I didn't think you were sounding let alone being authoritarian... 01:20
...yet ;) 01:21
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raiph i've moved contributing details off the wiki front page to a linked page. and s/PUGS/Pugs/. 01:28
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[Coke] surfaces briefly and tries to bs. 02:28
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dalek ecza: 65474a2 | sorear++ | docs/announce.v18:
s/17/18/g
 03:00
ecza: 3133f7f | sorear++ | / (4 files):
Update bootstrap to v18
ecza: c86e3f0 | sorear++ | FETCH_URL:
Move bootstrap pointer to github now that that is working again
sorear hmm
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sorear I don't get it. 03:05
I pushed the latest patch to no-bs
if I make a fresh checkout from git://..../niecza, the fresh checkout has the new patch
but the new patch doesn't show up on the github web interface
if I go to github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5a97c38e654, it shows up 03:07
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aesundstrom sorear: I just tried your link and got a 404. 03:08
sorear: doh! the link included the comma at the end 03:09
sorear: it's there
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sorear (o/ aesundstrom) 03:22
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dalek ecza/no-bs: eb41510 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
Translate CClass to C#
 04:06
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moritz diakopter: is there a reason why you make some files in git repos executable? 05:43
phenny moritz: 30 May 23:15Z <diakopter> ask moritz please apply my rakudo patch if you want the test I added to stop failing :)
moritz: 30 May 23:17Z <diakopter> ask moritz (or fudge it, of course)
moritz diakopter: for example S03-sequence/basic.t
sorear moritz: iiuc, diakopter uses git on windows, which sets executable bits on all new files 05:45
moritz but that wasn't a new file
and I remember seeing another mode change from him which wasn't a new file either
hm, maybe teh text editor replaces the file with a new version or so 05:46
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timotimo while gist.github.com/2838595 is pretty cool - it's the red-black tree example for algebraic datatypes - i don't really see how it would expand to things like Maybe or Left/Right with two different types on both sides .. or am i confusing things again? 06:01
sorear timotimo: the 'algebraic type' object is [R,$a,$x,$b] 06:07
R is only the tag
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sorear sleep^ 06:08
&
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dalek kudo/nom: 9cd99ac | moritz++ | src/core/operators.pm:
in sequence operator, avoid over-eager munching of elements. diakopter++
 06:41
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diakopter moritz: I'm not sure. I access the files from windows over samba to my linux vm 07:22
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moritz diakopter: ok, I can see how that could go wrong :-) 07:24
it's not a real problem though, so never mind :-)
diakopter I'll make a note to chmod the files back after editing them before committing 07:25
hopefully my mental note function works
moritz no worries if not 07:26
we can just bulk-chmod them back once a month
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jnthn morning 07:51
moritz \o jnthn 07:52
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timotimo ah, so if i want to have type-safe "algebraic types", i'd just create pattern-matching constructors 08:03
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kresike hello all you happy perl6 people 08:18
sjn o/
timotimo r: enum LeftRight <L R>; multi ct(L, Str $a) { [L, $a] }; multi ct(R, Int $a) { [R, $a] }; say ct(L, "foo").perl; say ct(R, 99).perl; 08:26
p6eval rakudo 9cd99a: OUTPUT«[LeftRight::L, "foo"]␤[LeftRight::R, 99]␤»
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timotimo tries to update his local rakudo 08:30
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timotimo having a bit of trouble compiling/linking libparrot.so 08:32
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moritz timotimo: are you on windows? 08:33
timotimo no, 64bit linux here
downgraded to the last tag i saw in gitk and trying again
in case you care, the error i got while linking libparrot.so was "undefined reference to 'main'", following a few 'invalid relocation' errors of some sort 08:35
moritz woah, never heard of that before
timotimo ah, ok, still happens on the 'MadMongers' tag, do you want a past of the last lines of the log?
moritz maybe #parrot on irc.perl.org knows what to do about it; I don't 08:36
timotimo OK, but I won't have much time to stick around :(
moritz ok, paste it here, I'll carry it over
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brrt hi all, i'm calculating the expected costs of hosting a perl6 web server 09:08
i was wondering if anyone would be interested and what he or she would be able and willing to pay for it 09:09
because, if i compare it with the average cost of - say - php web hosting, it will be a large exercise of me bleeding money 09:10
:-)
moritz already has some hosting options that can be tuned to use rakudo 09:13
brrt assuming your not going to run twitter on the thing
inpertinent question, but what do you pay for that right now?
dalek ast: d06e61e | moritz++ | integration/99problems-21-to-30.t:
fix and rakudo-unfudge combination() tests
 09:14
moritz 5 EUR / month
brrt ooh
that is going to be hard to be sustainable for me 09:15
moritz it's a machine that I share with some fellow (ex) students
and which is conveniently located inside a company which provides IT services for companies, and where some of my friends happen to work :-) 09:16
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brrt its reasonable, no doubt 09:18
moritz it's very convenient
brrt wheres feather hosted?
moritz web server, mail server, ssh, enough memory and CPU power to smoke rakudo :-)
brrt: somewhere in the neatherlands
brrt: Juerd++ takes care of that 09:19
brrt i see
he lives very far away in dutch measures
moritz :-)
brrt anyway, 5E/month is never going to cut it at the expected level of enthusiasm for perl6 hosting :-p 09:21
moritz well, you need to rent a VPS at the very least, and then decide how many hosting offers you can make out of it 09:22
brrt theres a data centre in groningen that is presumably relatively cheap
but they charge 50E/month for just setting up your hardware, never mind connection or electricity
so that would require 10 moritzes just for that 09:23
moritz well, VPS start at around 10 EUR/month
though usually they have too little memory to compile rakudo
brrt hmm, that would mean cross-compilation then 09:24
moritz www.hosteurope.de/content/Virtual-Server-Linux 8 GB for 40 EUR/Month 09:25
or 4 GB for 30 EUR
brrt thats reasonable enough
wolverian Hmm, that is pretty cheap. I have 2 GB for 20€/month from Hetzner. 09:26
brrt will think about it some more 09:27
it'd just be nice, also a great reason not to let mod_parrot slip behind
when either parrot or rakudo or apache changes
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moritz vollmar.net/dedicated # dedicated server with 8GB RAM for 40 EUR/month -- those folks have a rather good reputation 09:31
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brrt finally has use for high school german 09:32
moritz most of that page is in English anyway :-) 09:33
brrt :-)
nice, not very expensive at all
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dalek kudo/nom: 8ecf6da | moritz++ | docs/ROADMAP:
[ROADMAP] add regex Null pattern detection
 09:35
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bbkr rakudo: "" ~~ / {} * / 09:58
p6eval rakudo 9cd99a: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 09:59
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aminperl I want to create a demo web crawler 10:54
How do extract the list of all URLs?
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daxim needs more libxml 11:05
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bbkr rakudo: say "abc" ~~ m:g/(.)/; 11:19
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«False␤»
bbkr hm, why global switch broke matching?
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jnthn Probably because :g causes it to return a list, and "abc" ~~ that_list does not match 11:21
bbkr but spec says " the boolean is allowed to return true on the first match" 11:22
rakudo: say so "abc" ~~ m:g/./; 11:23
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«False␤»
moritz jnthn: that is exactly the reason why it fails 11:26
and one of the reasons for TimToady++'s OKness proposal 11:27
jnthn should try and do something about the implementationness of that proposal at some point... :) 11:38
bbkr i don't get it. "abc" is matched against regexp that returns a list and is matched again against this list? 11:39
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moritz bbkr: $a ~~ $b generally boils down to: { my $_ = $a; $b.ACCEPTS($_) } 11:41
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moritz bbkr: so here it is { my $_ = 'abc'; m:g/./.ACCEPTS($_) } 11:41
bbkr: but m:g/./ is not a regex object; it's a *call* to a regex
bbkr: and its result is a list, here one with three Match objects 11:42
bbkr moritz: so in current implementation any :global use will fail?
moritz bbkr: and so the .ACCEPT method gets called on the list returned from m:g/.../
r: $_ = 'abc'; say .Str for m:g/./ 11:43
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤»
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moritz bbkr: any smartmatching against m:g//. Using it directly still works 11:43
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moritz but it's the reason we don't use it often around here. Current spec has issues that means it cannot work. 11:44
bbkr moritz: makes sense, thanks for explanation. without knowing underlying ACCEPTS code this will be common trap to users who expect p5-ism. 11:45
moritz bbkr: I know :/
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bbkr star: grammar G { token TOP { \d } }; $_ = "12a3"; .say for m:g/<G::TOP>/ 11:59
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«=> <1>␤ G::TOP => <1>␤␤=> <2>␤ G::TOP => <2>␤␤=> <3>␤ G::TOP => <3>␤␤»
bbkr \o/
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bbkr star: use IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI; say so " " ~~ m/<IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI::TOP>/ 12:03
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«True␤»
jnthn ...that doens't look like a URI to me :) 12:04
bbkr indeed, creating GH issue now...
moritz star: use IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI; say IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI.parse('perl6.org/compilers/') 12:05
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«=> <perl6.org/compilers/>␤ URI_reference => <perl6.org/compilers/>␤ URI => <perl6.org/compilers/>␤ scheme => <http>␤ hier_part => <//perl6.org/compilers/>␤ authority => <perl6.org>␤ host => <perl6.org>␤ reg_name => <perl6.org>␤ …
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moritz star: use URI; say URI.new.parse(' ') 12:06
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
moritz star: use URI; say URI.new.parse(' ')
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
moritz ouch
that's the precompilation issue striking :/ 12:07
bbkr it parses into
=> <>
URI_reference => <>
relative_ref => <>
relative_part => <>
path_empty => <>
locally
github.com/ihrd/uri/issues/4 12:08
moritz ah, and the space is never parsed, because the regex is not anchored 12:09
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dalek kudo/nom: b2068e9 | pmichaud++ | src/core/List.pm:
Typo fix.
 12:41
jnthn puts Rakudo to use at $dayjob 12:44
moritz \o/
frettled jnthn++ \o/
moritz jnthn: what do you do with it?
moritz hopes not as a counter example when teaching compiler construction :-)
frettled haha :D
moritz r: say (1..*).list.infinite 12:45
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz r: say (1..*).ma({$_}).list.infinite
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«No such method 'ma' for invocant of type 'Range'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/T2xN2mzDpN:1␤␤»
frettled ooh
moritz r: say (1..*).map({$_}).infinite
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
frettled r: say (5..*).list.infinite
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz pmichaud: is that correct/expected?
frettled r: say (*..*).list.infinite
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
frettled \o/ 12:46
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jnthn moritz: Hunting for various unused things. 12:48
Mostly, just a bunch of text munging, pattern matching etc.
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bbkr std: q<><><><> 12:50
p6eval std f179a1b: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 40m␤» 12:51
sorear good * #perl6
jnthn o/ sorear 12:56
pmichaud good morning, #perl6 12:59
moritz: is which one correct/expected?
all of the ones you entered look correct-ish to me 13:00
jnthn hi pmichaud 13:01
pmichaud o/ jnthn
sorear o/ pmichaud, o/ jnthn 13:02
pmichaud jnthn: I'm working on .munch this morning.... the approach I was thinking of is looking painful so I'm casting about for other ideas :-/
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jnthn pmichaud: What were you thinking and what made it painful? 13:02
pmichaud: Is the real problem that RPA has a very costly unshift?
pmichaud jnthn: yes, that's what it feels like 13:03
jnthn We may want to stop using RPAs there.
(more)
pmichaud yes, since my earlier approach didn't work I was thinking about creating our own custom RPA, at least for List
(well, earlier approach will work but looks ugly in code)
jnthn I'm pondering that if we're going to do compact arrays we probably need to have something that knows how to do compact storage, and I'd really rather it is handled the same kind of way 6model handles natively typed attributes. 13:04
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pmichaud Makes sense. 13:06
jnthn We could make that repr know how to unshift in a good way.
sorear +1 to array reprs with efficient unshift, that path has been good to me 13:07
pmichaud oh, wait
our problem isn't a costly unshift, our problem is a costly *shift*
jnthn ah
But same kind of problem. 13:08
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jnthn Both involve a load of copying ATM 13:08
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pmichaud what's your feeling on the eta for compact arrays? Does it become worth it to develop a custom RPA in the interim? 13:08
sorear have either of you figured out how to make compact untyped arrays? 13:09
jnthn sorear: Compact...untyped?
That doesn't make sense to me.
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sorear p6 lets you do @a[1] := @a[0] ... this is one of those features that you pay through the nose for whether you use it or not :( 13:09
pmichaud I'm not sure how receptive Parrot would be to me adjusting VTABLE_shift_* on RPA
jnthn sorear: You could not bind to an element of a compact array. 13:10
Just like you can't:
r: my int $x := 42;
p6eval rakudo 8ecf6d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot bind to a natively typed variable; use assignment instead␤at /tmp/lV9MpKr7iH:1␤»
sorear jnthn: that's why I want to see compact untyped arrays.
jnthn: I want a 'my Op @ops' that just contains pointers to Ops, not pointers to Scalars 13:11
jnthn sorear: The only ever bind to the elements of @ops
sorear: And you'll never end up with containers.
s/The/Then/ 13:12
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jnthn pmichaud: (eta) not sure...it was below QAST in my todo list, but not much below... 13:12
pmichaud: July-ish maybe.
pmichaud well, I think it's lower priority than QAST, certainly 13:13
(compact structs)
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pmichaud s/structs/storage/ 13:13
jnthn pmichaud: Why would Parrot folks complain about you making RPA more efficient for shift/unshift? :)
pmichaud efficient in speed, less efficient in memory
jnthn ah, true
r: say &dir.signature 13:15
p6eval rakudo b2068e: OUTPUT«:($path = { ... }, Mu :test(:$test) = { ... })␤»
pmichaud it also likely requires changes to FixedPMCArray, which could affect a _lot_ of stuff downstream
(since RPA subclasses FPA)
jnthn *nod*
Yeah, probably better to start afresh then...
I suspect I could steal whatever storage strategy you use for a 6model REPR later on. 13:16
pmichaud hmmm
I didn't seriously consider starting completely afresh -- I was thinking of deriving another FPA subclass 13:17
but creating one from scratch might be far simpler
and I could probably skip a number of the vtables that we don't use (e.g., get_string_keyed_int) 13:18
I'd just need enough pieces to implement the nqp:: ops that we use 13:19
afk for a bit
rlpeacock hi perl6, I'm having trouble building rakudo-star-2012.05 13:20
problem seems to be in parrot compile 13:21
is this the right place to ask about this?
PerlJam rlpeacock: maybe. Got a transcript of the problem? 13:22
rlpeacock PerlJam, it dies here:
cc -o runtime/parrot/dynext/gziphandle.so \
src/dynpmc/gziphandle.o -fstack-protector -L/usr/local/lib -shared -O2 -g -L/usr/local/lib -fstack-protector -fPIC -ldl -lm -L/usr/lib -licuuc -licudata -ldl -lm -ldl -lm -lpthread -lcrypt -lrt -lz
/usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libz.a(compress.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.rodata.str1.1' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
/usr/lib/libz.a: could not read symbols: Bad valu
Ubuntu 12.04 64 bit
PerlJam um ... no guesses from me. 13:26
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rlpeacock i'm thinking i'll try to throw that -fPIC into the link args and just see if it works 13:28
no idea what it does though :)
jnthn There may be an option to pass to Parrot's configure to get it not to build the gzip support...
flussence I'm trying it on $dayjob box with 12.04 here, it just did the Configure.pl part with no error 13:29
PerlJam yeah, I use 12.04 too and haven't had any problems.
rlpeacock: try building parrot --without-zlib, see if that helps 13:30
flussence oh, you might need zlib1g-dev installed
rlpeacock yeah throwing -fPIC didn't do anything
already have zlib1g-dev 13:31
i'll try without zlib
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pmichaud jnthn: while driving @kids to $school I think I've convinced myself a custom RPA is the way to go for now, at least for List 13:33
rlpeacock yeah --without-zlib seems to have worked
thanks everybody
pmichaud jnthn: now the question is -- put the custom RPA in rakudo and use it only for List, or put it in nqp and use it for nqp::list ? 13:34
PerlJam pmichaud: the latter benefits Rakudo compilation *and* Rakudo execution, right? 13:35
pmichaud PerlJam: I'm not sure how much it will affect Rakudo compilation. afaik nqp doesn't do a lot of shifting 13:36
jnthn pmichaud: I think I'd prefer nqp::list to consistently use the same type
pmichaud jnthn: I don't understand that answer
jnthn no, it didn't make any sense, did it... :)
I think I'd prefer it if we keep using nqp::list in the list internals, and update it to always use the new thing that you implement now. 13:37
pmichaud okay, so put the new list type into nqp. And then when you have a compact storage type, we simply switch to use it
jnthn BUT...that means we have to make it do all the things, rather than just what we need for the List implementation...
pmichaud all the things isn't hard 13:38
jnthn OK :)
pmichaud fpa.pmc + rpa.pmc is only ~1800 lines of code
and there's a lot of cruft, and stuff we could easily eliminate
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dalek ecza/no-bs: 81ba7c1 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
Translate Op to C# (part 1)
 13:39
sorear I guess github just doesn't report the first new commit to a branch 13:40
even though I created the branch as a copy of master (git checkout -b no-bs; git push origin no-bs) before committing to it
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jnthn sorear: no-bs? 13:41
oh, is bs bootstrap here?
sorear yes
maybe that wasn't so much a punny name as a confusing name ...
sjn jnthn: hey, did you get my invitation mail for the hackathon in august? :) 13:42
sorear there, I renamed the branch 13:43
sjn jnthn: do tell if you're coming \o/
jnthn sorear: Well, only 'cus I made the pun about a different bs first ;)
sorear: I was looking at it like, "huh, sorear is getting rid of bounded serialization?!" :)
sjn: Yes, I got it. 13:44
sjn: I've got the days cleared with $dayjob.
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pmichaud remembers to mark his calendar 13:44
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pmichaud jnthn: I think I'm going to do this in stages, with the eventual goal that nqp::list creates the structure we want and is used throughout 13:46
jnthn +1 13:47
pmichaud I'll probably create a temporary nqp::qlist op to use for the new list while I handle the migration. Also, I want to see how performance changes before committing to a larger refactor
jnthn Quantam list! \o/
;)
pmichaud I was thinking more of "list that can be performant when used as a queue" :-) 13:48
since that's what .munch and iterators tend to use rpa's for
also it fits in nicely with the pattern for qregex, qbootstrap, qast, ..... :-)
jnthn Rakudo's performance is weird. 13:49
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jnthn I have a script here that does dir(...) recursively (but only a level deep) to find all files. 13:50
pmichaud I suppose I could call it nqp::qrpa for now, too. that might make more sense.
jnthn It takes 7s to find 3370 relevant file names.
sorear yeah, it's accellerating too fast. niecza is haivng troubhle keeping up ;)
jnthn But only 3s to slurp in every one of those files and do a regex match on it to get out the CREATE PROCEDURE query from it.
sorear jnthn: 3s or 10s? 13:51
jnthn 10s total
UncleFester6 star: use IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI; say so " " ~~ m/<IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI::TOP_validating>/
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«False␤»
jnthn It's the division that werids me out.
PerlJam jnthn: maybe stat is brokenish (way too expensive) ? 13:52
UncleFester6 star: use IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI; say so "www.rakudo.org " ~~ m/<IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI::TOP_validating>/
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«False␤»
jnthn that's 3s for all 3700 files
Not 3s each
UncleFester6 star: use IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI; say so "www.rakudo.org" ~~ m/<IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI::TOP_validating>/ 13:53
jnthn PerlJam: Hmm, maybe that
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«True␤»
pmichaud afk, errands
jnthn I have a given "$path/$name".IO {
and inside there a when :d { ... }, when :f { ... } etc.
UncleFester6 bbkr: ping
bbkr UncleFester6: yes? 13:55
sjn jnthn: don't forget to go through the signup process ;)
sorear UncleFester6: are you new here? Welcome
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sjn jnthn: also, you'll have to buy your own plane ticket (we'll refund 1200NOK of it) 13:56
UncleFester6 You filed a bug report about URI. Can you please take a look at my examples with the TOP_validating rule?
sjn jnthn: and please don't delay, air fare is getting expenisve :-/
jnthn sjn: Oh, ouch :/
sjn: Where do I have to get myself to? 13:57
Stavthingy?
sjn eys
jnthn will look at it again tonight
sjn great :)
Stavanger Sola airport (SVG)
jnthn sjn: It occurs to me that I can do home -> Stavanger or vice versa by train... 13:58
Didn't check details yet though.
sjn that's a loong trip 13:59
bbkr UncleFester6: I see your examples. But IMO TOP is still broken. for example for task "find all links in text" user will assume 'use IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI; $_ = "rakudo.org foo bbkr.org"; .Str.say for m:g/<IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI::TOP>/' which currently do match empty strings
jnthn Longer than Lund - Oslo?
Hm
sjn yes, Stavanger is on the south-west coast
jnthn had figured he could get off somewhere on the way to Oslo and head west but maybe the Norway rail network doesn't work like that.
:)
sjn well, you'll have to get through Oslo in any case :) 14:00
but there might be some ferries
sorear grumbles at not being able to go anywhere
sjn sorear: :-(
PerlJam
.oO( scalable vector graphics airport? )
sjn PerlJam: yeah, I know! :)
jnthn Yeah, none of that pixelated airport crap in Norway!
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UncleFester6 bbkr: thanks - I will look into the example and update the bug report as I understand things better ... 14:01
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sorear o/ aesundstrom 14:37
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timotimo aesundstrom: you queried me earlier? 14:41
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aesundstrom o/ sorear 15:08
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kresike bye all 15:11
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PerlJam Is the monolithic setting still necessary? Or can it be decomposed into smaller chunks with separate compilation? 15:19
(rakudo, obviously)
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pmichaud still necessary, for lexical scope reasons 15:23
until separate compilation has a way of putting everything into a lexical scope.... we're kind of stuck with it. (more)
I suppose it's possible that the core setting could in fact be multiple nested lexical scopes, if we wanted to try something like that to break up the compilation 15:24
it might also be possible to create a setting that imports the separately compiled modules and updates its lexical scope accordingly 15:25
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pmurias sorear: hi 15:48
sorear: what do I have to do to switch to the no-bootstrap branch?
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moritz git checkout no-bs #? 15:56
benabik Hm. Rakudo adds bs, niecza removes bs. 15:57
From the web interface, it looks like the branch name is non-bootstrap
Woodi hallo, is 'compile out' feature available ? eg. you deploy app by precompiling it and you want to "binary" do not contain language features not used in app code - if grammars or eval not used then "compile this out"... any sense here ? 15:58
colomon sorear++ renamed it this morning
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PerlJam Woodi: No, that's not really available. 15:58
Woodi it can add some lvl of security after deployment... 15:59
but planned ?
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pmurias moritz: thanks 16:13
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moritz Woodi: no. Compiled forms are just caches. 16:19
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pmurias moritz: ? 17:04
moritz pmurias: ? ? 17:07
daxim �¿⁇��
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moritz has problems answering single-letter questions 17:07
daxim perl -E'say "?" =~ /\pL/' # not even that! 17:08
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moritz r: class A is export { } 17:14
p6eval rakudo b2068e: ( no output )
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diakopter re breaking up the setting; maybe then its parts could be compiled in parallel 17:19
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moritz fwiw I have experimented with breaking up the setting into two parts 17:21
TimToady you'd have to manage the circularity saw carefully to avoid cutting off all your feet
moritz an outer with the basic features, and an inner setting to be compiled after the outer
and... it's quite challenging
all of our types interact with each other somehow
and the compiler interacts with some of them too 17:22
TimToady this is really rocket science: how many stages do you want to orbit? Every approach will have it's advantages and disadvantages 17:23
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TimToady and Perl 6 has an escape velocity more like Jupiter's than Earth's... 17:24
moritz I'm now experimenting with simply use'ing Set+Bag 17:26
we have lexical imports after all 17:27
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TimToady well, the only hard requirement is that it be Perl 6 by the end of the setting, but how much of the setting wants to be in "real" Perl 6 is an implementation choice 17:38
long-term, when the Perl 6 compiler gets good enough, you'll probably want the whole setting in real Perl 6, but that's unrealistic for now
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TimToady we'll have to understand circularity saws a bit better to get there 17:39
and what the true primitives are 17:40
dalek rlito: d7ca5ce | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
Perlito5 - javascript: "package" is a reserved word in the closure compiler
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GlitchMr eval: "\x10000".chars 17:49
buubot_backup GlitchMr: 00chars
GlitchMr I meant Perl 6...
perl6: "\x10000".chars
p6eval pugs, rakudo b2068e, niecza v18-1-gc86e3f0: ( no output )
GlitchMr perl6: print "\x10000".chars
p6eval pugs, rakudo b2068e: OUTPUT«1»
..niecza v18-1-gc86e3f0: OUTPUT«2»
GlitchMr ...
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TimToady nobody really does graphemes yet, but we're waiting on compact integer arrays to do NFG right 17:50
diakopter poor perlesque and its compact integer arrays; if only that weren't the only advantage it has 17:52
well, niecza has them too.
sorear good * #perl6
GlitchMr Well, I'm checking which programming languages don't think that Unicode is 16-bit.
moritz \o sorear
heh, fun
GlitchMr As for now I have Perl 5, Perl 6 and Python 3.3.0 (beta) on list.
But I'm sure that more languages do things properly.
moritz you know what happens when you move some parts of the setting to a module, and 'use' that module? 17:53
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TimToady flowers sing and dolphins jump? 17:53
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moritz the module loader tries to load the setting, in order to provide the outer scope for the module 17:53
and of course it can't, since we aren't done yet compiling the setting 17:54
sorear TimToady++ # circularity management is rocket science
TimToady and sorear++ is trying to develop SSTO :)
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moritz SSTO? 17:55
TimToady en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-stage-to-orbit
moritz ah
geekosaur > length "\65536" 17:56
hm, lb not back yet? oh well
GlitchMr But now I have problem. My text editor doesn't support "\x10000" properly.
geekosaur (haskell also does not think unicode is 16 bit)
GlitchMr ok, so now I have Haskell on list too 17:57
Juerd Unicode has no bits
TimToady r: gist.github.com/2837838
p6eval rakudo b2068e: OUTPUT«1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765␤1 1 2 4 7 13 24 44 81 149 274 504 927 1705 3136 5768 10609 19513 35890 66012␤1 1 2 4 8 15 29 56 108 208 401 773 1490 2872 5536 10671 20569 39648 76424 147312␤1 1 2 4 8 16 31 61 120 236 464 912 1793 …
Juerd So no, Unicode is not 16 bit.
TimToady \o/ diakopter++ moritz++
geekosaur <geekosaur> > maxBound :: Char 17:58
<lambdabot> '\1114111'
guess LB doesn't hang out here any mroe
GlitchMr Juerd, but some languages think that Unicode has 16 bits.
>>> '𐀀'.length
2
(this is JavaScript in this case)
Juerd GlitchMr: Well, that's incorrect.
GlitchMr I'm searching for languages which do things correctly. 17:59
TimToady well, there are several definitions of that...
geekosaur more correctly, it's using a utf16 internal representation and does not try to pretend otherwise
sorear right now, niecza treats text always at the codepoint level
length(), substr(), and friends make no effort to hide the UTF-16 representatiion 18:00
GlitchMr It seems that PHP doesn't think that Unicode has 16 bits.
geekosaur this is not necessarily a bug; even if you support the full rnge of unicode in a single character, does that include normalization? what about combining characters (codepoints vs. graphemes)?
GlitchMr Not like it has proper Unicode support, but it somehow works in this case.
<?php echo mb_strlen('𐀀', 'utf8');
TimToady Perl 6 is aiming for the NFG version of "correct", whatever that turns out to be 18:01
sorear GlitchMr: there is nothing buggy about a language declaring length(chr(0x10000)) to be 2 if that is what the spec says
GlitchMr That is if language supports so big values in chr() 18:02
>>> String.fromCharCode(0x10021)
"!"
(JavaScript)
Also, numbers of characters is different than number of bytes. 18:03
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PerlJam 6866 18:20
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dalek rlito: 7aadacf | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - javascript: cleanup comma for the closure compiler
 18:34
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diakopter byebye feather 19:57
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diakopter TimToady: have you looked at rosettacode.org/wiki/Ordered_Partitions do you think p6 could beat Groovy for succintness? 21:26
or even the 8-line python one 21:27
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diakopter or there's the J one-liner 21:35
the Perl 5 one is 40 lines 21:36
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tadzik eiro: where do I login to journeesperl.fr/fpw2012/ ? 21:40
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tadzik oh, nevermind, I'm blind 21:40
eiro: talk submitted 21:45
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sorear n: sub prtn(@mask is copy) { my $last = ([+] @mask) or return [[] xx @mask]; my @r; for @mask.kv -> $k,$v { next unless $v; $mask[$k]--; push @r, map { $_[$k].push($last); $_ }, prtn(@mask); }; @r; } say prtn(2,0,2).perl 21:55
p6eval niecza v18-1-gc86e3f0: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Variable $mask is not predeclared (did you mean @mask?) at /tmp/9pOAp6k1KO line 1:␤------> for @mask.kv -> $k,$v { next unless $v; ⏏$mask[$k]--; push @r, map { $_[$k].push(␤␤Strange text after block (missin…
sorear n: sub prtn(@mask is copy) { my $last = ([+] @mask) or return [[] xx @mask]; my @r; for @mask.kv -> $k,$v { next unless $v; @mask[$k]--; push @r, map { $_[$k].push($last); $_ }, prtn(@mask); @mask[$k]++ }; @r; } say prtn(2,0,2).perl
p6eval niecza v18-1-gc86e3f0: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/Xyn1Q2Halu line 1:␤------> $_ }, prtn(@mask); @mask[$k]++ }; @r; }⏏ say prtn(2,0,2).perl␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
sorear n: sub prtn(@mask is copy) { my $last = ([+] @mask) or return [[] xx @mask]; my @r; for @mask.kv -> $k,$v { next unless $v; @mask[$k]--; push @r, map { $_[$k].push($last); $_ }, prtn(@mask); @mask[$k]++ }; @r; }; say prtn(2,0,2).perl
p6eval niecza v18-1-gc86e3f0: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to prtn, used 1 of 3 positionals␤ at /tmp/QUKpVAZF1_ line 0 (prtn @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/QUKpVAZF1_ line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3910 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.sett…
sorear n: sub prtn(@mask is copy) { my $last = ([+] @mask) or return [[] xx @mask]; my @r; for @mask.kv -> $k,$v { next unless $v; @mask[$k]--; push @r, map { $_[$k].push($last); $_ }, prtn(@mask); @mask[$k]++ }; @r; }; say prtn([2,0,2]).perl
p6eval niecza v18-1-gc86e3f0: OUTPUT«[[[3, 4], [], [1, 2]], [[2, 4], [], [1, 3]], [[1, 4], [], [2, 3]], [[2, 3], [], [1, 4]], [[1, 3], [], [2, 4]], [[1, 2], [], [3, 4]]].list␤»
sorear n: sub prtn(@mask is copy) { my $last = ([+] @mask) or return [[] xx @mask]; my @r; for @mask.kv -> $k,$v { next unless $v; @mask[$k]--; push @r, map { $_[$k].push($last); $_ }, prtn(@mask); @mask[$k]++ }; @r; }; .perl.say for prtn([2,0,2]) 21:56
p6eval niecza v18-1-gc86e3f0: OUTPUT«[[3, 4], [], [1, 2]]␤[[2, 4], [], [1, 3]]␤[[1, 4], [], [2, 3]]␤[[2, 3], [], [1, 4]]␤[[1, 3], [], [2, 4]]␤[[1, 2], [], [3, 4]]␤»
sorear how does that look diakopter
diakopter a bit out of order
oh
the top level is reversed compared to the other solutions' output 21:57
but yeah
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diakopter added to rosettacode 22:08
dalek kudo/qrpa: a262cc4 | pmichaud++ | / (3 files):
Add initial QRPA (RPA with better queueing) PMC.
 22:11
kudo/qrpa: 818a180 | pmichaud++ | / (2 files):
Add pop_pmc, push_pmc, shift_pmc, shift_integer.
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Juerd Please, please... fix feather: /etc/init.d/unbound: regel 127: start-stop-daemon: opdracht niet gevonden 22:50
A missing start-stop-daemon means that the next time it reboots, it won't start many services...
TimToady diakopter++ 22:51
and sorear++
TimToady edited it to use gather/take instead
sorear sorear@feather:~$ /sbin/start-stop-daemon --help 22:52
Usage: start-stop-daemon [<option> ...] <command>
Juerd Hmmm, that's strange
sorear how were you running it?
Juerd Ah, my path is garbled
s/path/PATH/
sorear ah, yay
Juerd Sorry for the unnecessary expression of panic. 22:53
sorear no worries
TimToady The occasional necessary expression of panic excuses the occasional unnecessary expression of panic. :) 22:54
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diakopter panics for losing his phone 22:56
just now
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diakopter takes a look at rosettacode.org/wiki/Solve_a_Hidato_puzzle 23:25
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jnthn evening o/ 23:37
jnthn probably only about for a few moments
diakopter o/
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